In Human Events this morning I discuss the implications of the tragedy of Amina and Sarah Said:
Amina Said, 18, and her sister Sarah, 17, smile happily in one widely circulating photo, and Amina is wearing what looks like a sweatshirt bearing the name “AMERICAN.” But their fate may have been the herald of a new, disquieting feature of the American landscape: honor killing. Amina and Sarah were shot dead in Irving, Texas, on New Year’s Day. Police are searching for their father, Yaser Abdel Said, on a warrant for capital murder.The girls’ great aunt, Gail Gartrell, told reporters, “This was an honor killing.” She explained that Yaser Said had long abused the girls, and after discovering that they had boyfriends, had threatened to kill them -- whereupon their mother fled with them. “She ran with them,” said Gartrell, “because she knew he would carry out the threat.” But Said found them, and apparently did carry it out.
Honor killing, the practice of murdering a female family member who is believed to have sullied the family honor, enjoys widespread acceptance in some areas of the Islamic world. However, Islam Said, the brother of Amina and Sarah, has denied that the murders had anything to do with Islam at all. “It’s not religion,” he insisted. “It’s something else. Religion has nothing to do with it.”And to be sure, the Qur’an or Islamic tradition does not sanction honor killing. Muslim spokesmen have hastened, after the recent killing in Canada of another teenage Muslim girl, Aqsa Parvez, by her father to tell the public that honor killing has nothing to do with Islam, but is merely a feature of Islamic culture in some areas. Aqsa Parvez was sixteen years old; her father, Muhammad Parvez, has been charged with strangling her to death because she refused to wear the hijab. Shahina Siddiqui, president of the Islamic Social Services Association, declared: “The strangulation death of Ms. Parvez was the result of domestic violence, a problem that cuts across Canadian society and is blind to colour or creed.” Sheikh Alaa El-Sayyed, imam of the Islamic Society of North America in Mississauga, Ontario, agreed: “The bottom line is, it’s a domestic violence issue.”
But these dismissals are too easy, principally because they fail to take into account important evidence. In some areas, honor killing is assumed to be an Islamic practice. There is evidence that Islamic culture inculcates attitudes that could lead directly to the murders of these two girls in Texas. In 2003, the Jordanian Parliament voted down on Islamic grounds a provision designed to stiffen penalties for honor killings. In a sadly typical consequence of this early last year, a Jordanian man who murdered his sister because he thought she had a lover was given a three-month sentence, which was suspended for time served, allowing him to walk free. The Yemen Times just last week published an article insisting that violence against women is necessary for the stability of the family and the society, and invoking Islam to support this view.
Since Islam is used as the justification for such barbarities, it becomes incumbent upon Muslim spokesmen to confront this directly, and to work for positive change, rather than simply to consign it all to culture, as if that absolves Islam from all responsibility. For this is the culture that apparently gave Yaser Said and Muhammad Parvez the idea that they had to kill their daughters. It is a culture suffused with its religion, thoroughly dominated by it -- such that a clear distinction between the two is not so easy to find.
The killings of Amina and Sarah Said raises uncomfortable questions for the Islamic community in the United States, questions about the culture and mindset that people like Yaser Said bring to this country. Now that honor killing has come to Texas, Muslim spokesmen in the U.S. have an all the more urgent responsibility to end their denial and confront these cultural attitudes. If they don’t, and instead continue to glibly insist that religion has nothing to do with what happened to these poor girls, the murders of the Said sisters will only be the beginning of a new American phenomenon.
...Dear old dad pulled the trigger, Islam issued the death warrant....
...Ban Muslim Immigration...Muslim immigration is pointless and harmful to the host country...
What do we call all the other killings, where a father murders his daughters, but the father is not a muslim ?
"What do we call all the other killings, where a father murders his daughters, but the father is not a muslim ?
Posted by: shiva"
...Murder without religious authority....
"What do we call all the other killings, where a father murders his daughters, but the father is not a muslim ?
Posted by: shiva"
Because this type of murder exists elsewhere in civilized society does not in the least absolve the strong Islamic proponent involved here.
“...Murder without religious authority....” – exsgtbrown - you could not have exposed the inanity of shiva’s comment better!
Congress seems to more than willing to pass legislation even when none seems to be needed.
However, I see no reason why honor killings couldn't be classified as "hate crimes".
Madame Speaker, your thoughts?
"...Amina is wearing what looks like a sweatshirt bearing the name “AMERICAN.”...."
....this could have fueled dads violence...
shiva
The problem is in many places in the Islamic world those that commit the crimes are given a slap on the wrist. If you do it in the west you are given serious jail time or worse.
Every culture has fathers who go of the deep end and kill family members, but Islamic culture is only one who has loop holes that allows a muslim to escape justice.
They have a different concept of justice and punishment then we do.
Why do you think that is shiva?
This is but one of the great many things islam gave to the world, doncha know? I feel so sorry for those two girls. The children are the ones who are living in hell thanks to islam (not to mention all the non-muslims, of course). I wish we could send all muslims, over the age of 18, to the moon. Then we could take all of the kids and give them a life.
They need to make an example of Yaser Said.
Fortunately, Texas has an "express lane" Death Row
What do we call all the other killings, where a father murders his daughters, but the father is not a muslim ?
By shiva
We call them homicides and we call them criminal acts against the laws of man and we condemn those who would do such a thing and we prosecute the perpetrators.
Let them call him a shaheed. Then say that this is not a religious issue.
This type of anti-social conduct is unwanted in America whatever the justification or rationalization. Fight it, resist it, stop it, and all those who support it.
I think Shiva was being facetious - by pointing out the double standards that exist between a Muslim father killing his daughter and getting a pass, vs a non-Muslim father killing his daughter and being under the full prosecution of the law.
Honor Killing.........
Think of the word HONOR.......and the many ways we use this word in the United States. Have you ever used the word HONOR when it came to a KILLING? Just that fact alone.....explains why these immigrants who believe in this type of MURDER...need to be kept out of the United States.
It is still considered a HONOR to be allowed to immigrate to the United States, and if you can't become an AMERICAN......obeying all of our laws....then do us the HONOR......and stay out!
rumoret
Yeah, it's a cultural thing. And somehow all the cultures that practice it are mohammedan.
What an odd coincidence!
===========
This particular use of the word "honor" requires some real thought and analysis.
What is being said?
Sounds to my ear that the father is saying "I am defending my honor by killing you" -- although it could be "I am defending my family's (my clan's) honor by killing you".
Which is it? Or is it something else?
And what is that "honor" they keep talking about?
Is it:
-- public image?
-- real public image?
-- imagined public image?
........(and BTW, exactly who is the "public" in these cases)
-- my own self regard?
-- my control over the people around me?
-- my authority in my own family?
-- my feeling about ritual "purity"? (also subject to investigation)
-- my reputation as a tough guy?
What does this word "honor" really mean in this context?
Well Joebloug,
It probably is the family honor....in this case. In America we no longer practice killing because our HONOR was offended. Just imagine how many women who are in prison because they killed their boyfriend or husband and would be allowed out if they were able to use the defence that they KILLED because their HONOR was violated. We did practice the gentleman duel up to the 20th century.....definition below:
"The duel usually developed out of the desire of one party (the challenger) to redress a perceived insult to his honor. The goal of the duel was often not so much to kill the opponent as to gain "satisfaction," that is, to restore one's honor by demonstrating a willingness to risk one's life for it."
BUT WE ARE NOW CIVILIZED......and in being so......no longer are allowed to KILL because our HONOR has been stained by someone.
These HONOR KILLING immigrants need to stay in countries that allow their behavior and stay out of America!
rumoret
We need to have a special day to remember victims of honour killings.
Does anyone else agree?
"We need to have a special day to remember victims of honour killings.
Does anyone else agree?
Posted by: Voltaire"
...we have 365 of them....
Dear All I would like to say how sad this story is and I hope that the father of the girls go to jail and be excuted if he did it. But on the other hand I would also like to say that you can not blame it on Islam and just keep on atacking Islam for every thing wrong in the world? Can every one attacking Islam and wants to ban islamic immigrants read this- first Islam is not a country, Islam is a relegion that beleives in God the same God that christianity and Jewish people worship- Besides did any one look into the statistics of the highest crime rates, racisim, rape, stealing, domestic violence and not just killing their children but raping and abusing their children????? Defenitly not Muslims or Islam!!!get those statistics and then you will find that an act from an individual can not be blamed on a whole nation otherwise the whole world will be labelled, it was not Islam who burned the Jewish people in the world war, and It was not Islam who cuts open a pregnant women tummy and bet if she was carrying a girl or a boy!!!(Israel Invasion to Lebanon)... people; don't blame a whole nation, We can discuss 1000 wrong things in every system and every nation, take a minuet and try to read a bit about Islam and you can find out why it is the highest relegion that people convert to from other relegions. It has some real cool stuff, Please do not Label at the end of the day Muslims are people like you and me, look at the picture of the 2 girls those were muslims.
To Zeid:
It's been observed over and over and I'll say it again, people who profess to be Christians and commit acts that violate Bible principles do so because they failed to uphold those principles, muslims who commit the vast majority of those violent acts against muslims and "unbelievers" are doing so IN OBEDIENCE TO AND IN ACCORDANCE WITH KORANIC EXHORTATIONS.
Zeid:
Besides did any one look into the statistics of the highest crime rates, racism, rape, stealing, domestic violence and not just killing their children but raping and abusing their children?
NAZI Germany, the Soviet Union, and China have all claimed low crime rates too. Being the government means never counting your own crimes in crime statistics.
Speaking of statistics, somehow Islamic populations, accounting for only about a fifth of the world population, manage to be involved in about two thirds of the world's wars. Why is that?
it was not Islam who burned the Jewish people in the world war
Not entirely, but they were enthusiastic helpers:
Take a minute and learn about reality. It has some "really cool stuff".
Zeid:
From:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Himmler_to_Mufti_telegram_1943.png
November 2, 1943 Himmler's telegram to Mufti:
"To the Grand Mufti: The National Socialist movement of Greater Germany has, since its inception, inscribed upon its flag the fight against the world Jewry. It has therefore followed with particular sympathy the struggle of freedom-loving Arabs, especially in Palestine, against Jewish interlopers. In the recognition of this enemy and of the common struggle against it lies the firm foundation of the natural alliance that exists between the National Socialist Greater Germany and the freedom-loving Muslims of the whole world. In this spirit I am sending you on the anniversary of the infamous Balfour declaration my hearty greetings and wishes for the successful pursuit of your struggle until the final victory.
Signed: Reichsfuehrer S.S. Heinrich Himmler"
That sweetness and love between Himmler and the "freedom-loving Muslims of the whole world" must get you all misty eyed.
A more realistic take would be that the only honor involved in Mr. Said's life will be the ending of it.
Yaser Said is just another soul possessed by the disease of islam and the decadent culture that spawned the infection. That anyone, least of all a parent of such beautiful girls, could steal the life from such young and beautiful souls makes me want to vomit. I want to see Said fry for this atrocity along with everything even remotely related to islam, islamic "culture", and the foul societies that support such atrocity.
" Islam is a relegion that beleives in God the same God that christianity and Jewish people worship-"
I keep hearing that assertion from Muslims, but it doesn't stand up to reason. God is the eternal and everlasting Creator, and there is no change in Him, ever. He would not say to one group of people "I want you to worship and serve me in such and such a way", and then say to another group,"I want you to worship me in another way". Islam, as a religion, is for the here and now. It's whole foundation is in the temporal realm. Even it's concept of eternity is grounded in an earthly context. Seventy-two (or however many) virgins and perpetual sexual gratification as the reward for "good" behavior in this life? BTW, what is in store for Muslim women, or do they even get to go to paradise?
The God I serve promises much more. He has promised an eternal relationship with Him. One in which He is a loving Father to His children. His heaven is one which is focused on Him, and because of this, it is a glorious place. A place worthy of our fondest desire because it is where He is. He will be our reward. That is a reward beyond compare.
The god of the Koran, Allah, is nothing like the true and living God.
Ladies and gentlemen
here, right on cue, is a Muslim spin-doctor, with a mass of taqiyya-and-tu-quoque, trying to distract our attention.
In a mere 16 lines he has managed to cram in almost *ALL* the usual arguments.
1. The 'yes, but' tactic.
2. The claim that we blame Islam 'for all the evil in the world' (nice piece of projection,that, given that this site has posted examples of many a Muslim sermon that blames the Infidels - or, more particularly, the Jews - for everything that goes wrong both among Muslims and also in the world at large). Implicit charge of 'Islamophobia' or bigotry. Attempt to evade responsibility.
3. The claim that 'we all worship the same god'.
4. Tu quoque - an unsubstantiated claim that Infidel lands have higher rates of 'crime, racism, rape, stealing, domestic violence, child abuse and incest' than Muslim lands. The belief that all non-Muslim societies are corrupt is straight out of the Quran and has featured in Muslim rhetoric about non-Muslims ever since.
5. Tu quoque again - 'Muslims didn't do the Shoah' (no mention of the multiple mass-murders of Jews by Muslims, down through the ages).
6. A nasty little nugget of lurid Arab Muslim slander/ agitprop against the Jews (let's forget Damour and the mass murder and mutilation of thousands of Maronite Christians, by 'Palestinian' Arab Muslims, shall we?).
7. 'Islam is wonderful', 'read the Quran and you'll understand' (sorry mate, we've read the Quran, and a lot of other stuff, and that's exactly why we reject Islam as a dangerous mind-control cult that creates, in far too many of its adherents, a violent and over-controlling mindset that leads to the dehumanisation and murder of women and of non-Muslims).
8. the claim that Islam is the 'world's fastest growing religion' (but he ought to have a look at how fast Christianity is growing in China...).
Amina and Sarah were two lovely girls who had the sheer bad luck to be born into a Muslim family.
Had they been born into a non-Muslim family (say, a Baptist or a Catholic family) I think it is much, much more likely that they would be alive today.
Dear Zeid,
As to your comment that Jews and Christians worship the same God as Muslims, I give you a challenge:
Read the Bible. Go on. I dare you. Read it cover to cover and compare the God revealed there (that is, the Jewsh/Christian God) with your God, Allah.
Do what I did. If you are honest, both intellectually and philosophically, you will see that they cannot be the same Person.
But maybe Truth is not what you want. In that case, continue on your way.
But you must understand, your insistence that Islam be considered an Abrahamic faith, no matter how many nitwits and numbskulls repeat the mantra, and no matter the power or influence they wield, wanting something to be true doesn't necessarily make it true.
Now, 'Zeid', I have some questions. Answer Yes or No.
Should a girl - a girl like Amina or Sarah, or like Aqsa Parvez - born to a Muslim family living within an Infidel country, like America, be free to do any or all of the following? (By ' free', I mean, that she should suffer ABSOLUTELY *NO* PUNISHMENT WHATEVER for doing these things - that her Muslim family members or other members of the Muslim community, if she does do these things, MUST NOT hit her, abuse her, threaten her or kill her).
1. Should she be free to date a Jewish, Christian, atheist, Hindu, Sikh or Buddhist boyfriend?
Answer me: Yes or NO?
2. Should she be free NOT to wear hijab? Free to wear, if she wants to, a miniskirt, high heels, makeup, uncovered hair and- if she's on the beach or at the swimming pool - a bikini?
Answer me: YES or NO?
3. Should she be free to marry a non-Muslim man, who remains a non-Muslim?
Answer me: YES or NO?
4. Should she be free, without fear of any punishment, without fear of being killed, TO LEAVE ISLAM ALTOGETHER and publicly convert to: Christianity, Judaism, Hinduism or Buddhism, or even to become an atheist, like Ayaan Hirsi Ali, or Wafa Sultan?
Answer me: Yes or No?
Please do not Label at the end of the day Muslims are people like you and me, look at the picture of the 2 girls those were muslims.
Posted by: Zeid
Huh? We are kufr. Remember...one of the "najas things." We are filthy according to islam, and you want us to stop being all mean to the poor moslems?
I doubt very much that those two girls had any affection for their Father's religion. They were quoted as saying they did not want a moslem funeral if they were killed.
Whoa! Did you read the link that Aunt Bea posted on another thread yesterday on Debbie Schlussel's blog? Sarah and Amina's aunt contacted Debbie.
http://www.debbieschlussel.com/archives/2008/01/exclusive_-_aun.html#comments
Amina and Sara's aunt says that their brother lied and lured them back to the house and that they were both dead about an hour later. Will that piece of garbage, named Islam, be prosecuted for the murders of his sister's? The aunt also says that Amina and Sarah both told their mom that if their dad killed them, they did not want a Muslim funeral. These girls knew he was going to do it and then their brother tricked them into coming back to the house so he could go through with it. How terrified must they have been in the moments before their deaths, realizing that they had been tricked by their brother and their dad? Those two guys can go straight to hell.
@Zeid
I can't add to what has been stated by other posters about your comments. Instead I want to ask you a different question. Are you a Muslim?
If you are not and just considering it, I would ask that you not take any of the comments as an attack on you but just a warning that you are getting into something you will regret for this life and the next. I am deeply concerned about the people who call themselves Muslims. Because they no not the truth. It is evident by their actions. The non-Muslim world is rightly alarmed by the murders, honor killings and deceit that Islam a firms. I am not going to argue the plain facts because they are clear and have been for years.
What are the 'cool stuff' that appeals to you? Maybe Islam has the moral high ground? Maybe you think non-Muslims are inferior? Allah is way cool because of his sever justice? The Koran is the last word (even though you don't know what it says). The Muslims you know have been very nice to you and had you over for dinner? Maybe you don't like gays? You see that Islam gives you power and authority to correct all the wrongs in the world? Have you heard about the 72 virgins, cool? Do you like to beat and dominate women? Do you like little children (Mohammad did)?
All of these thing appeal to pride and ego. Makes you feel like a real man. Am I saying anything that makes sense, think about it? I am only pointing out the short comings Islam teaches and also acknowledge that other people of other faiths or no-faiths have done these horrible things as well. That is not the argument.
Yaser Abdel Said thought he was a real man when he killed his little girls. Islam gave him the justifications to do it, that is the reason for this site and thread. Hope you figure it out.
John 3:19
Their judgment is based on this fact: The light from heaven came into the world, but they loved the darkness more than the light, for their actions were evil.
يوحنا 3:19
حكمهم يقوم على هذه الحقيقة : ضوء من السماء جاء الى العالم ، لكنها احب الظلام اكثر من ضوء ، لافعالهم الشرير
"it was not Islam who burned the Jewish people in the world war, ..."
Posted by Zeid...
.....did you know that it was the Muslims who designed the concentration camps and the ovens that the Nazis Used?.....go to the History Channel Website and buy the video "Sadaam and the Third Reich"....it is a documentary showing the Muslim influence in the Third Reich of Germany....The Grand Mufti of Jeruselam actually wanted Germany to deport the Jews to the Middle East so that the Muslims could attack and kill them....The Germanys also had Muslim army units who were very efficient in rounding up the Jews and turning them over to the Germans....The last time I checks....Muslims=Islam.....then and now...
.....Muslims hate it when the infidels know the truth about Islam....
"you can find out why it is the highest relegion that people convert to from other relegions."
Posted by Zeid...
.....a very large number of conversions to Islam are done so by the point of the barrel of a gun or by threat of immenent death if you refuse....Muslims even claim you converted to Islam after you have died....Muslims who have decided they no longer want to be a Mulims are often killed if they convert to Christianity (no other religion kills you if you leave)...
.....I agree ...you can find out why Non Muslims convert to Islam...
....I believe in religion, but Islam is not the answer....
"..Islam is a relegion that beleives in God the same God that christianity and Jewish people worship..."
...that is a lie....
"Please do not Label at the end of the day Muslims are people..."
...ok
exstgbrown "lol"!!