Joel Mowbray (thanks to Mackie) reports on yet another trial in which the jihadist defendants were acquitted despite overwhelming evidence:
Given that hard evidence is often scarce in trials of unsuccessful terrorists, federal prosecutors in Miami no doubt felt fortunate to be trying defendants who participated in a ceremony pledging allegiance to al Qaeda—which was captured on video.The defendants took surveillance photos of government buildings. The leader of the cell admitted requesting from an apparent terrorist financier boots, uniforms, vehicles, machine guns and $50,000. Just in case the reason for the request was unclear, Narseal Batiste stated—on tape—that it was for creating an “Islamic army” to wage a “full ground war” and commit an attack that would be “as good or greater than 9/11,” such as blowing up the Sears Tower.
It wasn’t enough. They weren’t convicted.
In a stunning defeat for common sense, a Miami jury last month couldn’t convict seven defendants on a single of the 28 total charges. One man, who had moved to Atlanta months before the arrests and had severed ties with the group, was acquitted entirely. The jury deadlocked on all charges brought against the other members of the “Liberty City Seven.”
Though prosecutors are re-trying the remaining defendants soon, odds of success the second time around seem dicey. Put simply, it appears that several jurors were determined to acquit, no matter the evidence.
Read it all.
I wonder whether one or two jurors are being pressured - mob-style.
The muslim 'mob' wouldn't need to threaten all the jurors. That would give the game away. The 'mob' just has to threaten one or two, using, of course, the usual line - 'if you tell anyone you're being threatened, we will do X'.
Most likely this is a case of jury nullification. I live near Baltimore, have a police background, and work with many mid-career police personnel from a variety of jurisdictions including Baltimore City and WAshington, D.C. It is often extremely difficult to obtain convictions in urban areas with large Black populations. Frequently jury members have relatives who have been "in the system", or they themselves dislike and mistrust the police. In other cases, they may be intimidated by associates of the defendants. Some just like "sticking it to the man." Even in instances where police officers, and prosecutors are Black and there is ample evidence for conviction, the accused frequently walk.
If not juror intimidation, it could be jury nullification. After all, you following the dictates (sacraments) of your religion shouldn't be a crime.
Let's hope that some of these w@nkers are not citizens and can at least be deported.
We need jihad specific laws
This is just another stroke supporting the argument that engaging in jihad cannot be treated as a crime, it is an act of war. Instead of a public debate about which articles and amendments of the Constitution should apply to these cases we should be discussing which Geneva Conventions apply. Imagine if in 1938 the Justice Department had pressed for indictments of Adolf Hitler, Mussolini, Tojo and their sycophants.
Even after 9/11 why is it so difficult for the American public to get it through their thick skulls that we are as much at war today as we were on December 8, 1941?
It reminds me of one of my favorite lines from the character Pris in Bladerunner when she is informed in Sebastian's apartment by Roy that she and Roy are the only ones left: "Then we are stupid, and we'll die."
When the likes of Borat Obomba, Hellary Clinton and John "Can't Gitmo satisfaction" McCain are the leading candidates in the presidential race, can we not see why the jurors are not convicting these terrorists? The majority of folks seem to say one thing to your face but, do the opposite when left to themselves. My confidence in the people of our country is at the lowest point. The folks are getting what they ask for anymore. The path to hell is lined with them now.
They've been playing the victim for so long, and vocally, that people are believing the rhetoric.
If you tell lie often enough, people will come to think of it as truth.
The jury was deadlocked, once again. If there were any non-mahometan jurors who were not bribed or threatened, they must now come forward, name names, and describe the deliberations.
"Put simply, it appears that several jurors were determined to acquit, no matter the evidence."
-- from the article above
Why of course they were. How else was O.J. Siimpson acquitted, if not by jurors intent on making a political point, rather than doing justice. And how many on jury pools, these days, are or might be: Muslims, Muslim sympathizers, defenders of Islam, people who hate Bush and who think that the whole "war on terror" is overblown (it is not overblown, but is misconceived) 5) are sentimentalists about "religion" and about "Man" and assume that "everybody basically wants the same thing" and it is cruel to ever suggest or think otherwise.
The jury system, inherited from England, does not always and everywhere work. Where specific, detailed knowledge of something is required -- patent law, tax law -- it is understood not only that juries would be inappropriate, but that the judges need to have special training in those subjects, in order for the issues to be understood as is necessary.
I have suggested here before, and do so again now, that special courts, with specially-trained judges, and without juries, need to be created to deal with the set of cases having to dow not only with "terrorism" but with those who participate indirectly, those who support indirectly with money and other aid, and those who act as apologists for, or even attempt to explain away, the Jihad and all of its instruments.
Such courts are not without precedent. Islam is not an easy thing, apparently, to understand. Almost all of the people making policy in our government, and a great many people, in the military, in the C.I.A., in the F.B.I., do not know, and keep behaving as they do not think they have a responsibility to know, and to thoroughly understand, the texts and tenets of Islam. That is unlikely to change. But what can change, after so many miscarriages to justice -- justice needs to be delivered, after having been carried to term without incident -- is to stop relying on ill-trained midwives, especially for this kind of difficult birth, and train a special corps of obstetricians equal to the task.
The Idea that we are at War with Muslims is completely lost on some People. Everywhere you turn in the misnamed "War on Terror" we are confronting Hostile Muslims. Here we have Hostile Muslims openly declaring and admitting their desire to harm us, on our own Soil no less, and they get a pass.
How deeep the poison of Multi- Culturalism runs when any lame story is acceptable over reality.
....jurors from the "hood" stike again...
"... it appears that several jurors were determined to acquit, no matter the evidence."
What is known about the jurors and the process of jury selection for this trial?
This it will always be as long as acts of war are treated as legal transgressions rather than something far more serious, and far far worse.
A trial as a response, or arguments about what constitutes the decent treatment of Muslims waging a war of annihilation against is is utterly insane.
"... it appears that several jurors were determined to aquit, no matter the evidence." This is also a result of the hyphenated American, mexican, muslim, african, cuban etc. When we no longer are American's first, most will seek to protect their respective class.
Yahoo! Good Riddance!
http://news.aol.com/story/_a/top-al-qaida-member-reportedly-killed/20080131141809990001?ncid=NWS00010000000001
"Martydom" my ***.
He's in Hell, along with his evil leader, Mohamet.
They are smokin'!
When we no longer are American's first, most will seek to protect their respective class.
--AMartinez
But what "class" were these jurors protecting? Were the jurors Muslims? Were they immigrants who think any legal action against anyone must be nullified?
They're in Miami. Better not see them on TV in the aftermath of an attack, saying their government didn't adequately protect them.
How does international law define an act of war? If we ever decided to stop trying terrorists in civil court and instead treated jihad and attempted jihad as acts of war then whom do we war against? The ummah? The country or countries where the terrorists were born?
Any or all could deny culpability, saying the "misguided" just didn't understand Islam and had gone off on their own, with no authorization.
What if they're American? There you have a charge of treason but doesn't that also require a trial? Jury nullification again rears its head.
Check out this stupid, ignorant, crap:
http://media.www.lsureveille.com/media/storage/paper868/news/2008/01/31/Opinion/Exaggerated.Culture.Of.Fear.Is.Not.Scaring.Anyone-3178759.shtml
From the full article linked above:
We have seen the same claims over and over. If they're not a "mentally ill" person (diagnosed by the police and media within seconds after the attack, even if the jihadi is dead and cannot be interviewed), then they are "hapless and harmless" individuals. This jury bought the story, but to be honest, there's still a significant percentage of the population who understand next-to-nothing about Islam.
Was the prosecution allowed to bring in experts (real experts, not the phony taqiyya peddlars) to explain the basic core beliefs of Islam? Were they allowed to explain the concept of jihad or martyrdom within Islam?
If we were to question the jurors today, would they have even heard of the terms "fi'l" (the acts of Mohammad during his life), "qawi" (the sayings of Mohammad during his life), "taqrir" (the cases where Mohammad approved of the actions of others)? Would they understand that Mohammad is "al-insan al-kamil", the perfect man for all time, and that anything he said or did is unconditionally approved of by Muslims?
As for the claim that the jihadis were actually going to use the money to build a "community center for the children", was the jury instructed in the concept of "kitman" (the justified concealment of malevolent intention through deception)?
If not, why not? Were the prosecutors barred from bringing in such information? Were the prosecutors themselves aware of the existence of such information? If not, why not?
Hugh and others above are absolutely right, jihad trials require specialized knowledge. Knowledge about the sunnah (the most important of which are Sahih Bukhari, Sahih Muslim, Sunan An-Nasai, Sunan Attirmidhi, Sunan Ibn Majah, and Sunan Abu Daud), study of isnad chains (analysis of the reliability of hadiths), familiarity with the concept of "fard ayn" (religious obligations that apply to all Muslims) and "bida" (disallowed religious innovation or reformation) and so on are all required to adjudicate on such cases.
The average person has no knowledge on which to formulate an informed opinion. Or rather, the only knowledge they have is the unsupported dogma that is fobbed off on us by our "leaders" that Islam is the Religion of Peace, Islam is the Noble Religion; any questions beyond that take you into the realm of "Islamophobia" and "racism".
"It is often extremely difficult to obtain convictions in urban areas with large Black populations. Frequently jury members have relatives who have been "in the system", or they themselves dislike and mistrust the police. In other cases, they may be intimidated by associates of the defendants.
MP,
I think you hit the nail on the head. These are purely racial verdicts, but I wouldn't give them the credit of saying the verdicts are the result of intimidation or pressure. They know exactly what they're doing, and their motivation is purely racial.
The hells they live in are of their own making -- but they'll blame it on everyone else.
Clearly the US judiciary system has conducted itself brainlessly by kowtowing to Islamic militants in America-- and, to the grave endangerment of the US public. This, of course, is not the first time this has happened as we all know. Nor will this be the last.
Now, the real question is how long has the United States government KNOWN that Islam teaches first degree murder as part of its core doctrine??? The answer to that is the explanation as to how America got itself into this ugly mess to begin with.
Obviously, Islam (like anything that teaches first degree murder) should NEVER HAVE BEEN PERMITTED ON US SOIL. Islam is in gross violation of US penal codes and the US Constitution for starters and the beliefs taught by the Kuran that perpetuate this endless killing by Islam throughout the inhabited reaches of this planet are held to be divine in origin and thus untouchable and unalterable. In short, Islam is institutionalized first degree murder that may be practiced with impunity and without any real constraints. Nothing could be MORE dangerous than something like this.
Obviously, the US government committed gross dereliction of duty (in this case its duty to protect national security) by permitting Islam to arrive on (much less be practiced)on US soil. The American public should file a class action lawsuit against the US government for reckless endangerment which they have been and could long continue to be.
Deliver us from Islam.
PMK, I can't say what class of people I personally think these people are without being deleted. But I'd wager the are not here for America and justice. But only to stick it to the man. And this is why and until we are attacked again and with major destruction will some not wake up to the threat of islam.
Florida again! Florida of Ramadan Shallah and Sami al-Arian infamy!
And this reward to the jihadist enemy close on the heels of Florida Republicans derailing the presidential bid of Rudy Giuliani, the first great man to run for the US presidency since Henry Jackson, 32 years ago. And by doing so, they derailed America, just as the Democrat primary voters did when they rejected Henry Jackson in 1976, nominating Carter instead.
Ruslan Tokhchukov, EnragedSince1999.
Dade County/Miami juries are unpredictable; some of the most outrageous verdicts come from that venue.
Also remember: In many venues throughout our Republic, all a juror needs to be seated, is a driver's license. Gone are the days of the requirement to hold a State Identification card AND be a registered voter, i.e., a responsible citizen, before being summoned for jury duty.
Hail to Hillary. Hail to McCain. Both of them advocate amnesty and driver licenses for illegals (although Billary voted it FOR it before she voted AGAINST it).
What will we do when we have nothing but illegal aliens that harbor nothing but ill will toward Americans sitting as our jurors...
Because they have a "driver's license".
P.S. For the Florida trashers:
We are largely republican, and if you recall it was Florida that decided 2000. For you Bush Bashers... save it. Heard it, lived it, got a few tee shirts and made sure that Katherine Harris got the makeover that she desperately needed. BTW, she lost during the mid-term elections. You can put lipstick on a camel... but I digress.
We have a large community of immigrants, namely Cubans. These are some of the best people in the world; they are good citizens who lend much to our diverse State. Our problem right now, is the great influx of Arabs who are coming into Miami from Cuba posing as Cubans. I believe there was a story a few years back about Arabs learning Spanish to "pass".
Anyway, the islamists in this case were all young black males who were gang members, and who were clearly influenced by islamic dogma; most likely recruited by the Nation of Islam. The NOI is very dominant down here. They're nothing but islamo-zombies who talked a bunch of shiite, which got them put into the penal system.
Note: Each of these defendants now has DNA taken and filed, each has been fingerprinted, documented, likely strip searched, and has a permanent penal record not only with the State of Florida, but with the FBI, NICB, FDLE, and the US State Department. If any one of these freaks does so much as to step on a daisy, they're toast.
OUR REAL concern should be with providing 'driver licenses' to illegals, or giving them any legitimacy whatsoever. I can tell you that there are a huge # of Arabs infiltrating this State and they are coming through our good friend Castro through the beautiful island of Cuba.
NO AMNESTY. NO LEGITIMACY. NO SURRENDER.
It would be interesting if one of these innocent moderate muslims happen to blow themselves up in one of the jurors favorite churches,mcdonalds,parks,well you get the thought, hopefully only the jurors or their family are effected not some innocent "AMERICAN" bystander.
“One media-touted theory is that the defendants inspired sympathy as hapless wannabes. A dismissed juror—who was shown the door near the midpoint for reading a police pamphlet outside the courthouse on terrorism during the trial—explained that he was favoring acquittal for that very reason. “They were playing ninja,” said Eldon Brown. “These guys were living in the movies. They were completely out of touch with reality.” ”
For a more comprehensive explanation of the Jihadi as victim mentality, see the “Special Report” on “The Fake Domestic Terror Threat” in the Feb. issue of “Rolling Stone”. The article is titled “The Fear Factory” by Guy Lawson.
In this article Mr. Lawson explains, in great detail, how our out of control FBI entraps “pathetic and hapless jihadists” such as “The Fort Dix Six” and “Liberty City Seven”.
There is no real threat, you see, only our own evil government “manufacturing ghosts”.
It is not just disgruntled inner city blacks who nullify juries (and common sense), looney liberals are fully on board with this type of idiocy – and there are a lot more of the latter than the former.
These are the fruits of a country where the education system does not prepare the kids for citizenship some day. They know next to nothing about our history, except for a chronology of victimhood. They know nothing about our laws, or Constitution, or what it means to be an American. They have no respect for the country or its laws. Their teachers are infiltrated Gramscians or the dopes the Gramscians helped to educate.
It's really a sorry state of affairs, when you have jurors who don't understand what evidence is and what it means. They do not know how to dissect an argument, thus are mush brains for the sirens' song of any schmuck lawyer defending Islamic terrorists.
Worst of all, many of these jurors will sire children or bear them, thus diluting the collective intelligence of the nation.
"Their [presumably college] teachers are infiltrated Gramscians"
Gramscians? They're too stupid to be Gramscians. That dignifies the ones I am sure you have in mind. Whatever one has to say about Antonio Gramsci his works require some intelligence to comprehend, and he cannot be held responsible for some of those terms -- such as "hegemony" -- and turns of thought, that others brightly took up, simplified for their own purposes, and have been using ad nauseam ever since. He wasn't stupid, like Cornel West, nor evil, like Edward Said, nor semi-demented like Chomsky, nor stupid, evil, and semi-demented, like Ward Churchill. There were no salon Bolsheviks around in Italy in those days, and during the Ventennio he spent years in a Fascist jail, and when he was finally released, promptly died. He was not enjoying the fruits of capitalism and freedom and ranting against both, unlike the others mentioned above.
Gramsci's case is akin to that of Enrico Berlinguer, an intelligent, dry (asciutto) man, who may have been the head of Italy's Communist Party, but was quite unlike either the Soviet leaders, or the Chinese Communist ones, and to denounce Berlinguer, without examining the many ways in which he was different, and even, at times, attractive (certainly more so than the crook Andreotti), would be unfair.
Hugh,
You are laser-like on target about those people. But they are, while not intellectuals, carrying out the long march through the institutions. More like the crude activist followers of Saul Alinsky than anything else. Still, the theory of transformation through controlling the narrative enables these fools.
I've met lots of them. Unlike them, I DID study marxist theoreticians. And unlike them, I have a half-decent mind capable of, when faced with cognitive dissonance, making the necessary adjustments based on reality.
God save us from the educrats and their education pedagogical theories. Dumbing down combined with a blatant ideological agenda. What's worse is that most of the taxpayers are catching z's.
If President Bush was on the jury, his decision to convict or acquit would be based on these stated beliefs: the koran is a "noble" document; "islam is peace." And Big Media has machined over 70% of Americans to believe that muslims can be trusted. No big publisher will print the works of Robert Spencer, Daniel Pipes, or Bat Yeor. In that amoral swamp, is is an accident that scum float to the top?
And this reward to the jihadist enemy close on the heels of Florida Republicans derailing the presidential bid of Rudy Giuliani, the first great man to run for the US presidency since Henry Jackson, 32 years ago. And by doing so, they derailed America, just as the Democrat primary voters did when they rejected Henry Jackson in 1976, nominating Carter instead.
Ruslan Tokhchukov, EnragedSince1999.
--------------
Yep.. and the MSM were relentelessly torpedoing Giuliani.. the leftard Village Voice here in NYC was running cover story after cover story against Rudy.. they KNOW how well he did in NYC against verything these leftards stand for..
It is SO disgusting!!
Now we have what they wanted.. the Jurassic Park candidate McCAIR.. their fallback candidate in case Hitlery doesn't win.
Better to let a Dhimmicrat president take the next hit than a liberal-in-sheep's-clothing McCAIR.
Let the Dhims be the weaklings to take the fall than a Conservative-in-name-only.
Too bad America doesn't have its own version of the B.N.P. so that we could at least have a PROTEST VOTE!!!!!
Unfortunately, our justice system is reactive rather than proactive. We need a way to better address conspiracy to commit an act of terrorism.
"When we no longer are American's first, most will seek to protect their respective class.
Posted by: AMartinez ""
...sad to say: hyphenated Americans have arrived and have succeeding in dividing America into so many subcultures as to no longer be a "United States of America"....egos rule...
I bet Jeffery Carr was on that jury.
And John McCain wants to put the other jihadis on trial? I think we need to treat them as well as they treat us (i.e. Dan Pearl et. al).
And John McCain wants to put the other jihadis on trial? I think we need to treat them as well as they treat us (i.e. Dan Pearl et. al).
And John McCain wants to put the other jihadis on trial? I think we need to treat them as well as they treat us (i.e. Dan Pearl et. al).