"LONDON (Reuters Life!) - A battle of faiths is being waged in the ancient English city of Oxford, where some people are bitterly opposed to Muslim plans to broadcast the call to prayer over the fabled dreaming spires." -- from this news article
The noisy call to prayer is an act of dominance and aggression. The louder it is, the better. Mosques were always supposed to be built in high ground, or in the most imposing spot, towering over churches and synagogues, in the lands first conquered by Islam. Those aggressive skyward thrusting minarets were symbols of power, of dominance. And the same thing continued wherever Islam went.
Some fail to understand that the placement of mosques, the size of mosques, the significance of minarets, and those calls or cries, now electronically amplified, are all part of a single system. That system is one by which the mosque is not merely or mainly a place of worship, but a place of community gathering. It is a political and social center. It is even -- in the Muslim lands -- a place for shows of support or defiance against the government (the naming of the rulers in the khutba being a sign of loyalty, and the omission of those names a sign of disaffection), of plots and schemes. It is even -- as we see even here and there in Europe -- a place to store weapons, explosives, false papers in false ceilings -- and a place from which to fire on Infidels (see Iraq, see all of Iraq).
A mosque is NOT a Muslim "church." It is a Muslim "church" and a Muslim "community center" and a Muslim "armory" and a Muslim "army recruiting center" and a Muslim everything. The easy, and comforting, belief in the West that it is merely a "house of worship" is something that Infidels must disabuse themselves of -- and they can best do this by reading, perhaps starting with Snouck Hurgronje and other great Orientalists, on the subject of "the mosque."
The muezzins wail may, for some, be most picturesque -- part of the landscape in North Africa and the Middle East. In the Lands of the Infidels, it would be an intolerable display of triumphalism. If Oxford allows the call to prayer between 6 a.m. (but not earlier) and 10 p.m. (but not later), what will this do to the sleep patterns, and peace of mind, of all the non-Muslims who, presumably, still live in Oxford? If it is allowed, the very fact that it will disturb Infidels will not disturb Muslims, but will be triumphantly taken -- as each little victory is taken -- as a sign that the barriers to the spread and dominance of Islam are being dismantled. Some are being dismantled by a display of sweetness-and-light, some by a display of something quite different -- but the goal remains the same. Each new victory swells the hearts of Muslims, and causes, here and there, among the pool of Infidels who are psychically vulnerable to the appeals of the well-financed, non-stop campaigns of Da'wa (Every Man Is His Own Missionary in Islam), more to see it as the coming thing.
One may look at what happened in Granada. There, the Spanish government, thinking to do the grand thing, allowed a mosque to be built. It was built, on the highest ridge in the city. It now overlooks a nunnery. And the nuns have been complaining ever since that the noise from that mosque has permanently disrupted their own existence, their own necessary quiet, as the Call to Prayer (and indeed, other noises) suppress any possibility of contemplation.
And after the muezzin’s call, will the slitting of the throats of sheep at Eid al-Fitr, which one can see on the streets in certain quarters of France, now also be permitted? The throat-slitting ritual is part of a "religious" celebration; the sheep would be killed anyway, in the slaughterhouse; what conceivable harm could it do?
One hopes that the best lawyers in the land will take on the Muslim groups in Oxford, pro bono. One hopes that on every occasion, they will also in the U.S. confront the Saudi-funded Muslim groups around the country that are pressing for every advantage, every aggressive push in all the areas of American life. Whatever other cases those charitable-minded lawyers may wish to take, those attempting to limit the aggressive march of Islamic Sharia should take precedence. For these are not really pro bono matters at all, but matters of civilizational life and death, as yet imperfectly understood.
There is something more about the mosques, that we didn't know.
The French author Sylvain Besson has pointed it out in the book "La conquete de l'Occident. Le Projet secret des islamistes".
On site 98 he writes about an article of Valerie Amiraux - The structure of the islamic organisations in France. They are all members of Conseil Francais du Culte Musulman. (CFCM) And they are weighted there not according to the number of their members, but according to the area that they converted into islamic area by building a mosque. This procedure was shown for the CFCM in the year 2003 in the article of V. Amiraux. And the Umma works all over Europe in the same way. In Germany it is the same: Some islamic organisations like the Ahmadiyya build mosques, where they scarcely have members, they build in industrial areas, outside the cities etc. It only counts how large the mosques are. In Britain it is surely the same.
If anybody wants to find out more, here it is in German:
http://www.eussner.net/artikel_2007-10-23_17-04-23.html
Or you have to ask the French Blogs.
Cities need ordinances against using amplified voices for advertising and most other purposes. Exceptions for fairs and carnivals could be made available on approval for temporary use. Some minor exceptions could be made for concerts and other one time events. Some cities have outlawed church bells; they annoy the back sliders.
If I should die, Think only this of me,
That there's some corner of a foreign field
That is forever England.
There shall be in the richer dust concealed;
A dust whom England bore, shaped, made aware
Gave, once, her flowers to love, her ways to roam
A body of England's breathing fresh air,
washed by the rivers, blest by the sons of home.
And think, this heart, all evil shed away,
A pulse in the eternal mind, No legs
give somewhere back the thoughts by England given;
Her sights and sounds; Dreams happy as her day;
And laughter, learnt of friends; and gentleness,
In hearts at peace, under an English Heaven.
The Soldier by Rupert Brookes.
Rupert Brookes, like thousands of the lost generation of my country, was slaughtered on the killing fields of Flanders.
It seems he took solitude in the memories of what he was fighting valiantly to defend.
Slimy, arrogant, incompetent politicians took his life.
Now it seems they are not happy with just that, they need to remove his memories too.
Is Islam what he gave his life and soul to defend?.
Just for the record, it's Rupert Brooke.
http://www.oucs.ox.ac.uk/ltg/projects/jtap/tutorials/intro/brooke/
Is Islam what he gave his life and soul to defend?.
Posted by: Stone Rose at February 12, 2008 5:47 PM
No. England is so pitiful right now there are no adequate words to describe.
Rupert Brooke didn't die in Flanders he died in Greece of blood poisoning if I remember correctly. I think you are mixing him up with his brother. As far as I know he didn't even hear a shot fired in anger. he is overrated as a poet and doesn't compare with Sigfred Sassoon or Wilfred Owen. And that poem you quote was written before he even went abroad.
Where is the Noise abatement society when you need them they used to kick up such a fuss over church bells in the 60s and 70s?
As johnny rotten says, 'there's no future, and england's dreaming.' PLEASE read 'moderate muslims, wherefore art thou?' It's at the top of www.darrellepp.com
That system is one by which the mosque is not merely or mainly a place of worship, but a place of community gathering. It is a political and social center. It is even -- in the Muslim lands -- a place for shows of support or defiance against the government (the naming of the rulers in the khutba being a sign of loyalty, and the omission of those names a sign of disaffection), of plots and schemes. It is even -- as we see even here and there in Europe -- a place to store weapons, explosives, false papers in false ceilings -- and a place from which to fire on Infidels (see Iraq, see all of Iraq).
i.e. a command center.
Prompted by the literary discussion on this thread, I have two questions:
#1. Stands the old church clock at ten to three?
and
#2. Is there honey still for tea?
Unless we find an economic and technological way to curb the flow of oil dollars (and euros) into the Islamic coffers, every stride that has been made in life, liberty, and the pursuit of science, will be set back step by step, and the civilized world will be plunged into the abyss of the Dark Ages.
Serious question: What is the best approach to stopping this legally? Here's my guess--correct me if I'm wrong:
There are already noise ordinances in place that if simply left would prohibit this amplified call to prayer. (Is this right?) Such ordinances require some sort of exception from the Oxford city council or city fathers or whatever. (Is this right?) So prima facie, it's now not legal to do, but the Muslims are trying to go through some sort of process to get an exemption carved out for themselves. (Is this right?) So it has to be fought at that level, and if the local Oxford people who give out the exceptions say okay, then that's it, it's all over, because it's all up to them. (Is that right?)
Squire nagged and bullied till I went to fight,
under Lord Derbyshires scheme. I died in hell.
They called it Passchendaele. My wound was slight
And I was hobbling back; and then a shell
Burst slick upon the duckboards; So I fell
Into the bottomless mud, and lost the fight.
At sermon time, while squire is in his pew,
He gives my guilded name a thoughtful stare.
For, though low down upon the list, Im there.
"In proud and glorious memory". Thats my due.
Two bleeding years I fought in France for squire
I suffered anguish that hes never guessed.
Once I came home on leave; and then went West.
What greater glory could a man desire?.
The Memorial tablet by Sigfried Sassoon.
Not half as romantic as Brook but it serves the same purpose.
What the hell did these boys have to go through to make us proud of our heritage today??.
The planned memorial for 9/11 Flight 93 which crashed in Shanksville, PA is yet another act of dominance and aggression.
Alec Rawls has done yeomans work investigating this heinous insult.
The following info was inadvertantly left out from above post:
There is so much more . . .read it all at Error Theory
Maybe we need to just rush in and blast all teh aras and take their oil and drive them back into their god foresaken sandboxes. The petrodollars are going to get us all killed or taken over. Even if they blow up the oil fields, we'd find another way while they slide back into the bronze age
Deception and hostility are the two legs of Islam without which, it cannot stand. Right from the start, instead of praising allah Islam declares that there is NO OTHER GOD, but allah. That itself disregards all other Gods, declaring that there is NO ROOM for any god but allah. from there, it only gets worse.
Maybe we need to just rush in and take their oil and drive them back into their god foresaken sandboxes. The petrodollars are going to get us all killed or taken over. Even if they blow up the oil fields, we'd find another way while they slide back into the bronze age. Europe can import Asians or Russians for manual labor, not that detritus.
More joyful tidings from Europe.
http://www.spiegel.de/international/europe/0,1518,534772,00.html
Looks like the politicians there have lost the plot. They do not realise that there's going to be no democracy or liberal values or freedom of thought ,leave alone freedom of expression, once islam takes over, by democratic means or otherwise.
Their problem is that of the Indians a thousand years ago. Steeped in a view where human rationality was preeminent and smug in the belief that all human beings played by the basic rules of fairplay and ethical conduct, they were subjugated, despite their clear intellectual, moral and military superiority. It's been said that those who do not learn from history are condemned to repeat it.
THIS NEWS IS HORRIBLE.
I HATE IT.
I HATE the very idea of a mosque and a muezzin, all that sneering dominance and aggression (as Hugh puts it), planked down in the middle of Gerard Manly Hopkins' "towery city and branchy-between-towers".
D L Sayers's City - get out "Gaudy Night", and read it, its descriptions of 1930s Oxford, its affectionate tribute to the Idea of the University, and weep; and then be filled with white-hot fury at the thought of the arrogance, deceit, bullying and aggression of those whom Oriana Fallaci called 'the sons of allah', and the hideousness of the muezzin's wail shrieking to drown out the hymn of the choir on top of Magdalen Tower at dawn on May Day.
Oxford, city of John Betjeman. Here are four of his 'Oxford' poems. I posted them once before, in a story about Muslim infiltration into Oxford University. I post them again, in hopes they may form some sort of rallying cry. They need to be heard. Of the four, three contain the sound of church bells.
'In Memory of Basil, Marquess of Dufferin and Ava'
On such a morning as this?with the birds ricocheting their music?Out of the whelming elms?to a copper beech's embrace?And a sifting sound of leaves?from multitudinous branches?Running across the park
to a chequer of light on the lake,?On such a morning as this?with The Times for June the eleventh?Left with coffee and toast?you opened the breakfast-room window?And, sprawled on the southward terrace,?Said: ' That means war in September'.??Friend of my youth, you are dead!?*and the long peal pours from the steeple*?Over this sunlit quad?in our University city
?And soaks in Headington stone.?Motionless stand the pinnacles.?Under a flying sky?as though they too listened and waited?Like me for your dear return?with a Bullingdon noise of an evening?In a Sports-Bugatti from Thame?that belonged to a man in Magdalen.?Friend of my youth, you are dead!?and the quads are empty without you.?Then there were people about.?Each hour, like an Oxford archway,?Opened on long green lawns?and distant unvisited buildings
?And you my friend were explorer?and so you remained to me always?Humorous, reckless, loyal –
my kind, heavy-lidded companion.?
Stop, oh many bells,
stop?pouring on roses and creeper
Your unremembering peal?this hollow, unhallowed V. E. day,
I am deaf to your notes and dead?by a soldier's body in Burma.
- Myfanwy at Oxford
Pink may, double may, dead laburnum?Shedding an Anglo-Jackson shade,?Shall we ever, my staunch Myfanwy,?Bicycle down to North Parade??Kant on the handle-bars, Marx in the saddlebag,?Light my touch on your shoulder-blade.??Sancta Hilda, Myfanwyatia?Evansensis
- I hold your heart,?Willowy banks of a willowy Cherwell
a?Willowy figure with lips apart,?Strong and willowy, strong to pillow me,?Gold Myfanwy, kisses and art.?
Tubular bells of tall St. Barnabas,?Single clatter above St. Paul,?Chasuble, acolyte, incense-offering,?Spectacled faces held in thrall.?There in the nimbus and Comper tracery
Gold Myfanwy blesses us all.??Gleam of gas upon Oxford station,?Gleam of gas on her straight gold hair,?Hair flung back with an ostentation,?Waiting alone for a girl friend there.?Second in Mods and a Third in Theology?Come to breathe again Oxford air.??Her Myfanwy as in Cadena days,?Her Myfanwy, a schoolgirl voice,?Tentative brush of a cheek in a cocoa crush,?Coffee and Ulysses, Tennyson, Joyce,
Alpha-minded and other dimensional,?Freud or Calvary? Take your choice.??Her Myfanwy? My Myfanwy.?Bicycle bells in a Boar's Hill Pine,?Stedman Triple from All Saints' steeple,?Tom and his hundred and one at nine,?Bells of Butterfield, caught in Keble,?Sally and backstroke answer – “ Mine! “
- "St. Barnabas, Oxford"
How long was the peril,
how breathless the day,?
In topaz and beryl,
the sun dies away,?His rays lying static at quarter to six
On polychromatical lacing of bricks.?
Good Lord, as the angelus floats down the road,?Byzantine St. Barnabas, be Thine Abode.?Where once the fritillaries hung in the grass?A baldachin pillar is guarding the Mass.?
Farewell to blue meadows we loved not enough,?And elms in whose shadows were Glanville and Clough?Not poets but clergymen hastened to meet
Thy redden'd remorselessness, Cardigan Street
- May-Day Song for North Oxford ?[(Annie Laurie Tune)]
Belbroughton Road is bonny, and pinkly bursts the spray?Of prunus and forsythia across the public way,
For a full spring-tide of blossom seethed and departed hence,?Leaving land-locked pools of jonquils by sunny garden fence.??And a constant sound of flushing runneth from windows where?The toothbrush too is airing in this new North Oxford air
From Summerfields to Lynam's, the thirsty tarmac dries,?And a Cherwell mist dissolveth on elm-discovering skies.?Oh! well-bound Wells and Bridges!
Oh! earnest ethical search?For the wide high-table logos of St. C. S. Lewis's Church.?This diamond-eyed Spring morning my soul soars up the slope?Of a right good rough-cast buttress on the housewall of my hope.??And open-necked and freckled, where once there grazed the cows,?Emancipated children swing on old apple boughs,?And pastel-shaded book rooms bring New Ideas to birth?As the whitening hawthorn only hears the heart beat of the earth."
Islam, with its blank, blind, envious hatred of anything other, or greater than, itself, its sadistic stamping out of music, art and sculpture, its murderous hostility toward all freedom of thought or of conscience, its abominable union of spiritual, physical, political and domestic tyranny and slavery, has no place in Oxford, no place at all.
I would understand perfectly, if this hideous proposal of amplified blarings of the adhan goes ahead, were some infuriated citizens of Oxford to someday give the Mohammedans a taste of their own medicine - and burn the infernal mosque to the ground, loudspeakers and all.
Let's hope things don't have to come to that pass.
Sorry about the formatting of the Betjeman poems - something went wrong.
May the Devas watch over Britain.
This is an absolutely despicable act on the part of British Muslim society to allow this, and that too, in a majority non-Muslim area.
Any and all prayers are essentially noise to all those who do not prescribe to those beliefs. Just as others are required to reduce music levels as to avoid annoying their neighbors, prayers work the same way.
All prayers should primarily (with a few exceptions, such as holidays) be restricted to houses of worship.
Blue
How far along is the Flight 93 Memorial project; I mean have they let contracts for its construction?
How is it possible that the entire power of the State and Federal Gov'ts have been so corrupted?!
Are the citizens of Pennsylvania brain dead?
So many rhetorical questions...
Surely Oxford has statutes on the books that would allow them to shut down a public nuisance.
Certainly this is England.
And just as certainly this is a nuisance.
If they don't strike this down they have no one but themselves to blame.
Hugh is dead right, this is an act of dominance and aggression.
Will the English respond?
Is there any self-respect left in England?
Assalamau Laikum all,
I don't know that this is an act of aggression or dominance....muslims are simply being themselves.
We love home...for home is where Allah T'allah is...and if that be Oxford...then so be it.
Christianity come to the fore too quickly....and now it's blown over and possibly will be blown away....and it is not the mussalmaan who will do it...it is you yourselves.
No one can take away what you want to keep...but how much do you want to keep it?
That is the $64m question.
Of course the Amerike here are in no postition to lecture the English...they have already sold their most important educational instutions to the Saud.
Let me put this into some context for you...Oxford is argubaly the best recognised University town in the world.
As a youngester growing in the UK ..my ami always used to say...."Naseem go to Oxford"...your name will be recognised the world over, you will make me proud...peoples in Pak will have heard of Oxford Uni before Lahore University....sadly I could not make it Oxford (but I did graduate not too far from there).
Oxford with it's quaint spires and it's boat race IS England.
Putting the Azan over loudspeaker in Oxford is like ....like eh...like ringing christian church bells in Medina 5 times a day.
Consider the petition of the peoples of Medina to this....now consider your own pathetic petitions.
A handful of colourful pensioners, heroes of bygone days,lobbying the council...the "story" not even reaching the national newspapers....it's business as usual peoples...nothing to see hear, move along now.
Dumbledore....you will soon recognise that there is only one game in Oxford town ...Allah T'allah...even YOUR grandchildren will get to know this truth of truths.
Stone Rose ..."there will always be a piece of England in foreign lands"
needs rewriting...
Hopefully there always be a piece of England in England
The sun sets on the British Empire.
Darkness fills the void.
justamomof4
that Flight 93 Memorial is a disgrace. From what I have heard it garnered very little publicity.
This is not a political comment on LGF - but just to draw your attention to it.
More here:
http://1389blog.com/2008/02/07/flight-93-blogburst-where-is-the-lizard-army/
O/T: welcome anti-dhimmitude from Denmark, again
http://edition.cnn.com/2008/WORLD/europe/02/13/denmark.cartoon/?iref=mpstoryview
Hurray for the Danes! It seems like they are the only nation not afraid of offending muslims. It is heartening to know the cartoon has been republished across Europe. Now sit back, and wait for the outrage to begin again.
I don't know that this is an act of aggression or dominance....muslims are simply being themselves.
Naseem, that's the most honest thing I've ever seen you post. Of course you don't know the difference as aggression is such an ever day occurrence in islam.
On to the point you make about the lack of response. As an Ex-Englishman, now an American (That's with a 'c' not a 'k') I can say that the secularism rife in England is more the cause.
We'd show the same lack of excitement if someone was to go public with the truth about Santa.
Religion is a soft blanket for people who are scared of the metaphorical 'dark'.
Your cult is just a louder, more unpleasant security blankie.
Peace,
Abu Lahab
It has become even more obvious than in the past that Naseem is one of us, cynically posing as one of them.
You've given yourself away lately, Naseem. The past subtleness of your charade has gone missing these last few weeks.
Confess and take a bow. You deserve it.
(If you need any detox sessions, we're here for you). :-D
Shy Guy and Naseem - And I thought that I was the only one who noticed. :)
I mentioned it about a week or 2 ago but things have gotten even more obvious in some of the posts since then.
Naseem writes; "Putting the Azan over loudspeaker in Oxford is like ....like eh...like ringing christian church bells in Medina 5 times a day."
Exactly. Like that'd ever happen.
Way too many mosques even here in the USA have been too closely tied to their overt tactic of terrorism. The more inocuous, insidious form of jihad is also coming from their mosques. Their imam's, or whatever they call their 'religious' leaders, duty is to help perpetuate jihad. All forms of it - from the uncontrolled birthrates of their women's bellies, every kind in between, to the violent kind.
The one in San Diego supported two of the 9/11 murderers. There is at least one under survellience in Dulles, Virginia, Chicago, Washington (I can't remember if it is DC, or the State of Washington) by the FBI for their terrorist activities and some having questionable funds being sent to questionable 'charities'.
Assalamau Laikum Shy Guy....
No you are wrong....I am Ahmadi.
I am still a muslim ....but not the type with which you are aquainted (or read about) with.
As Ahmadis we are not somehow protected from the sunni or the shia, you would be completely wrong in your assessment, in many ways they hate us more than you....kaffur they understand...Ahmadi they detest.
Let me give you an example. When I went to bury my shor Anwer (whose injuries after being caught in the 2005 earth quake in Pak eventually took him to Allah), I chose a large local cemetry.
Although the sunni officials took my deposit money ...my Anwer was denied the ground. Literally 2 hours later I was informed that as Ahmadi my Shor could not be allowed to share & pollute the ground with "true believers".
As you may know we have to bury our dead within 24 hours for them to successfully move to the afterlife.
This left me with a dilemma, panic and stress....another burial place to find, and additional monies to find....obviously the response to me asking for my deposit back was "what deposit"? ...are you accusing us of lying?
Well in the end he was buried near his father eventually .....a long way away...but only just within the allotted 24 hour period...and I don't get to see "him" with flowers as often as I would like.
As for call to prayer...at our Ahmadi Masjid (we don't call it mosque...the sunni don't like that)...we don't really call for prayers...it simply draws unwanted attention, masjids have been damaged in the past with call to prayers ...so we tread carefully.
I love Islam...but I don't love the sunni....when I got married, there was loads of space where I lived in Lahore, Mosques have since sprung up...and sunni & shia mosques close to each other compete for the airwaves... not the best Azhan call you would like to hear.
As for Oxford...I have little doubt that the sunni will succeed in getting their call to prayers...they usually do....your mistake is trying to lump all muslims as one...you would be mistaken...we don't all think the same.
My wish is for the West to take up Sharia Lite and become wuslims....it is my belief that wuslims will be different, softer and more secular than (sunni) muslims....and that strengthens the case for Ahmadi...and that Shy Guy is ultimately is what I really care about!
The way to keep wuslims alive, Naseem, is by standing by the west, and it's wise and therefore secular traditions..
Or are wuslims as dangerous as sunni's, and happiest eventually when everybody but wuslims has to keep mum and go into hiding?
If you need òur support, Naseem, why not give us yours?
(O, I forget - of course you can't, living in Pakistan.
It's too dangerous to be anything but a sunni muslim in your islamic country..)
Anyway: think about it - a country does not have to have a religion..that way everybody can believe what they want.
With respect to that, maybe yóu would be much better off in India!
There they are so respectful of the difference between church and state they even forget their own hindu heritage..Indian government is as silly and dhimmi as the west
re the Flight 93 memorial:
At least one of the Pittsburgh papers has had some coverage of the controversy though apparently there was a recent article that discounts the design being a mosque.
Many Pittsburghers have moved out of the area since the 1990s but still have ties to the area. Perhaps they ought to be recruited to try and get some movement on this.
Perhaps Rep Myrick's anti-jihad caucus as well should be contacted.
See from August '07 (also there are links on the right side of the page to other articles) http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsburghtrib/s_522975.html
and from this past Saturday
http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsburghtrib/search/s_551488.html
Took my own advice and will contact Rep Myrick.
Hope others will consider doing the same. See Suemyrick.com for contact page.
If you need òur support, Naseem, why not give us yours?
(O, I forget - of course you can't, living in Pakistan.
It's too dangerous to be anything but a sunni muslim in your islamic country..)
Posted by: Warhorse at February 13, 2008 1:18 PM
You do not want the support of a muslim, Warhorse, even of a non-violent muslim like Naseem. Remember, muslims are lik ebrain-washed robots who are programmed to spread Islam, thru Jihad and/or Da'wa. Most may not remember that this same Naseem, who imposes Islam on whoever she can, is not even a true muslim. This same Naseem, who imposes mosques burkha and koran on 'kaffurs', had no shame beggging for help from the same kaffurs, for guess what? To recognize Ahmediya as muslims. See the irony here? Naseem,, who imposes Islam on JW, is not a muslim herself. Go figure the double-standards of Islam!
Coming back to your pointm Warhorse, Dont think you want the support of someone who beggs for support, do you?