There is a group -- call them the Guirardians -- that continues to believe that Americans can best defeat "terrorism" by reaching out to the "good Muslims," the "moderate Muslims," who must be constantly reassured of such things as that we know, we Americans know, that "Jihad," rightly understood, is a Good Thing. And therefore, whatever it is that Bin Laden and Mughniyeh and all those others are doing, all over the world, when they say they are conducting Jihad, or living a life of Jihad, or giving their life for Jihad, they surely must misunderstand the true, the good, the beautiful meaning of "Jihad."
Why must they "surely have misunderstood, etc."? Well, because we know now, we can no longer deny, that "Jihad" is a central duty for all Muslims. And so, in order not to have to consider that just possibly the meaning that Muslims endow that word "Jihad" with -- the "struggle" to remove all barriers to the spread, and then the dominance, of Islam -- is what the word really means, we play a game of Let's Pretend.
We allow ourselves to believe that "Jihad" does not mean what, over 1350 years, it has been taken to mean. Yet see The Legacy of Jihad, see any of the books written by the Western scholars of Islam before the Great Inhibition set in. Or see any of the books written right up until now, and distributed all over the world, by Muslim scholars and jurisconsults, those written only with fellow Muslims in mind, and not Westerners who might, as for Mr. Khan, come up with generous infusions of cash for his entrepreneurial activity, so sly and so dangerous and, for the American taxpayers who are funding the thing, so futile and enraging.
Khan should be asked a few questions about how he defines "Jihad," and on the basis of what textual authority. He should be asked what good comes of "dialogue" that is not true but false dialogue, of the kind that too many have discovered, since 2001, to be the standard. That is, the “dialogue” in which these Interfaith Healing Sessions become ones where none of the non-Muslims are willing, or indeed able, to ask questions about the texts (Qur'an, Hadith, Sira). Nor can they ask about the tenets that naturally arise from those texts. Nor can they ask about the division in Islam, central to the worldview of Believers, between Believer and Infidel (and all talk about "three great abrahamic faiths" is so much diversion, distraction, and blague). Finally, they cannot ask about the state of permanent war (though not always open warfare) that must exist, so Muslims are taught, so many believe, between the Believer and Infidel. The "dialogue" always consists of Muslims presenting a quite distorted presentation -- usually one that never mentions the contents of the Hadith, nor the figure of Muhammad. And certainly there is never any mention of the Banu Qurayza, Abu Afak, Asma bint Marwan, the Khaybar Oasis, little Aisha, the Treaty of Al-Hudaibiyya and its lasting signficiance. The non-Muslims engaged in the "dialogue," knowing nothing or next to nothing, are led around by the nose.
And that's what, so far, every single attempt at a "dialogue" has led to. Why should the expensively-funded, taxpayer-funded, sums now be thrown at smiling Mr. Khan (the Smyler With the Knyf Under the Cloke), the one who couldn't bear even to appear on a panel with someone who was a veteran of the Israeli Defense Forces and even -- horribile dictu! -- had served in "the West Bank"?
When Mr. Khan, plausible smiling Mr. Khan, writes first that he has his doubts, this is how he puts it:
"Laura, I have to speak at the Pentagon tomorrow. My workshop is from 12-4. I hope to catch the 5 pm Acela from DC and will be back in town by 7 pm. I will come directly, but may be late. I am also not sure how I feel about being on the same panel with an Israeli soldier who was stationed in West Bank. Some people see IDF as an occupying force in the West Bank. I am not sure that I will be comfortable occupying the same space with him. It is not fair to spring this surprise on me at the last moment."
Ah, first a little mention of the "workshop" at the Pentagon. The Acela train and getting home. And now, smuggle in the real point: "I am also not sure how I feel about being on the same panel with an “Israeli soldier” [sic] who “was stationed on the West Bank.” Of course he is sure. He is completely sure. He will not do it -- not if he can get away with refusing to do it, and apparently he was not told that he should appear on that panel, or else. But of course he wasn't told that, was he? Everything was done to accommodate him. What if Asaf Romirowsky had refused to appear on the panel, saying that "I am not sure how I feel being on the same panel with a transparent apologist for Islam who is slyly pushing, deep inside the Pentagon, an Islamic agenda." What would have happened, do you think, to Asaf Romirowsky? But apparently being a Muslim, a Great Hope, a "reforming" and "dialoging" hope, means you can get away with all kinds of behavior that would be unacceptable, and promptly punished, were it by others.
And not only was Mr. Khan not informed that he was on the panel, and that was that, but he was subsequently rewarded, rewarded with a nearly half-million dollar grant that, I can safely say, will do not one single thing to make Americans safer, or more comprehending of the meaning and menace of Jihad. Perhaps the only good that will come out of this is that the smilers, the plausible seekers after government-and-grant money -- Every Muslim With A Degree His Own All-Expenses-Paid "Dialoguer" -- will stop being funded.
What can be done? Congress can look into this grant. Congressmen -- just like the late, very much missed William Proxmire (there were giants in the earth in those days, in the Democratic Party, but who, at the time, knew?), with his roll-call of the most idiotic things being funded -- can make it go hard with the Pentagon for this kind of waste, a waste that is, in fact, exemplary in the original sense. It offers an example of the confusion, the timidity, rigidity, stupidity of those trying, so slowly, to arrive at some understanding of Islam, but the true understanding of which will elude them for a long time, because they will do everything they possibly can to avoid finding out the truth, because that truth is so difficult to accept, so unpalatable in its implications.
There is a race on. The race is between those who know, or those who are capable of finding out, about Islam, and those whose task it is to throw sand in our faces in every possible way, to distract, to offer taqiyya-and-tu-quoque, and even, in some cases, in so doing, to pick our Pentagon's pockets.
At least let someone in Congress stop the picking of the pockets. At least we shouldn't have to pay to continue to be fooled. At the very least, that.
Assalamau Laikum all,
The Amerike really are an interesting lot...they think that there is always an answer to everything….Hmmm! moderate muslims (MM)….NO….well there must be a scientific explanation to it then….NO….well …let’s try democracy (to …eh…tame the barbarians…) …yes that must be it…and to see the birth of the MM you must pay a price for this…and yes the Amerike will pay…they always do:
so now rather than attacking sovereign tribal states in the ME
...the Amerike will start to protect us... apologise loads for your past mistakes and allow muslim immigration by the bucket load into the Amerike .
I can easily see hugh opportunities for the Islamic business community to open Islamic businesses in the US. Hell, I might even come myself to expand my furniture business.
Half of the banking must be based on Islamic banks, the laws could changed to favour Islamic marriages...( Amerike blonde womens could be in for a bumby ride here)...maan the possibilities are endless.
In this regard I am kinda on your side ...I already know of the MM …the Wuslims and Ahmadi.... you will need me to remind you of the halfway future that we can all have...remember, you can always convert to Ahmadi instead of (sunni) Islam......I can keep making you aware of the best possible compromises for the future
...I am a friend...
Our founder and spiritual master talked about peace...and the need to spread information.
Information is power....it allows us all to make decisions based on reason. In Ahmadism....the spread of information is called peaceful DAWA.
I am a very peaceful and moderate muslima....I would like to be a role model for young Amerike womens ...those in search of discipline, peace and faith.
Peoples.....please let it happen, this is an experiment that is worth investigating ...truly moderate Islam would not be a scientific experiment ...but a theocratic one ...a huge one like no other in the history of humankind, thus:
If you are an Amerike christian... you should invest in more cats,
If you are an Amerike muslim...save your pennies for more mosques...there will be plenty of opportunity to invest,
If you are an athiest ...consider a faith,
For the (majority) rest of you...prepare for Islam.
The Oneness of Allah will really show up ...Allah's flat earth policy would take a giant leap forward.
Go Ahmadi....Go Ahmadi (a famous song).
Moderates? Who cares about moderates. Moderates sit on the fence. Moderates do nothing and test which way the wind is blowing.
Where are the Muslim liberals?
"they surely must misunderstand the true, the good, the beautiful meaning of "Jihad." --Hugh.
Nope. The primary definition of "Jihad" is: Islamic Holy War. "Jihad" is neither good nor beautiful.
"For the (majority) rest of you...prepare for Islam." --Nasseem
Nope, Nasseem, you prepare for the eventual downfall of your evil faith. Like Naziism, Fascism, and Communism, it will fall.
At the risk of stating the obvious, atheists have considered religion. That's why they're atheist.
I'm with darcy on this. Totally.
Naseem, you still haven't offered proof that the muslim male (there are no men in islam), under whose thumb you must always live and groan, has granted you permission to write here.
Why not reach out to Muslims, even you admit that they are not all jihadists? There are some moderates or at least those who are more modern. We can't expect that "good" Muslims must tow our party line.
"I'm with darcy on this. Totally."
Thanks, undaunted. Also, see my response to you on a previous thread about why I said "21st century." It's the thread about the poor 14-year-old stoned by her father - and I use that term loosely.
"It's not the Glorious Qur'an, it's the Spurious Qur'an" (TM)
Why not reach out to Muslims, even you admit that they are not all jihadists? There are some moderates or at least those who are more modern. We can't expect that "good" Muslims must tow our party line.
Posted by: Dumbo at February 19, 2008 10:49 AM
It's funny how I always hear about this "moderate" group but have yet to see a single specific name. Sorry, I think they're a myth. Until you can furnish me some concrete examples complete with names, I will continue to agree with the esteemed Hirsi Ali that "moderate Muslims" are a myth - like Nessie and the Yeti.
Saw that reply, Darcy. Thank you.
Naseem;
As amusing as your posts always are, they and therefore you, reek of arrogance that is nauseating. It's one thing to be smug and right. It's quite another to be smug and wrong.
You? A role model for American women or girls? That’s too insulting to be laughable.
While you as a 'good muslima' pretend to be pious and holy, there are many examples any and all of us could launch to show your despicable hypocrisy and the evil that empowers it. But I will proffer just one example in that regard.
As a 'good muslima' you assent to the brutal murders of your muslima sisters who dare to try to step away from the lie that is islam. By your cowardly silence, you enable your 'men' to abuse you, to treat you like trash, to anally rape boys for their pleasure but then demand your clitoris be hacked off so you can't feel sexual pleasure.
You want to know why there are still 'honor killings' by muslim 'men' against their women? It's not because of the 'men.'
It's because of you 'good muslimas'. You let it happen. And you will be called to account for it someday.
You dare to suggest that you have something to teach American women, and that something is islam. In America, women who get treated as you permit yourselves to be treated are called victims. Those who choose to stay in the chains of that fear we call … stupid.
Continue your posing and posting here and by doing so demonstrate the loathsome beliefs that enslave you.
And, hey … have a good day.
undaunted - that's a great post, but from what I've seen of Nasseem she visits a thread, posts a comment, and never returns. So, she probably won't see what you wrote. Even so, it's worth posting for everyone else.
Question: If I get my slogan "It's not the Glorious Qur'an, it's the Spurious Qur'an" trademarked - can I have it printed on shirts or anything I like?
"call them the Guirardians"
Why "Guirardians?"
I'd sell 'em at my blog. Do it up.
"call them the Guirardians"
Did you mipsell giardiasis? ;)
"What is giardiasis?
Giardiasis (say "jee-ar-DYE-uh-sus") is an infection of the intestines caused by the parasite Giardia lamblia.
The illness, also called giardia, is most often a problem in undeveloped countries where tap water is not safe."
Naseem,
You are an arsehole.
Assalamau Laikum undaunted,
Ahmadis don't do brutal murders of muslimas...you must be confusing us with someone else.
It shows that indeed ...you have not understood where I am coming from. My dawa to you is to be a good wuslims/ahmadi.....these peoples still believe in the powers of our collective one true lord Allah SWT....but do not entertain stoning or honour killings.
It (almost) goes without saying that the Amerike will be practicing Islam within the next 50 years...so yes... I am a friend and a role model to your grandaughters....you have a lot to learn.
There is no where for you to hide or emigrate to..New Zealand will be Islamic too...have you not understood this yet...
your grandaughter's options will be to be a muslima, Ahmadi or heavily taxed and overworked dhimmi as a taxi-driver...surely you would want better for her than this.
Use your head and learn....make the environment right for your grandaughter...you and this generation will be OK....but let us prepare correctly for the next.
I was hoping you were right darcy, but she's still here ... like a filthy, smelly ache in the belly, like CTYankee said.
Hugh, looks like the conundrum you were facing a few weeks ago viz banning Naseem has a fire lit under it again.
Arguing with her holiness is something like this
http://youtube.com/watch?v=hTSAFcLXqYY except for the fact that she's boring.
Here's the longer version.
Naseem, you get to be the shop owner in this little farce.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=4vuW6tQ0218&feature=related
I'd sell 'em at my blog. Do it up.
Posted by: undaunted at February 19, 2008 11:22 AM
Wow! Thank You - so, you like "It's not the Glorious Qur'an, it's the Spurious Qur'an?" Hey - it makes perfect sense! And "spurious" is not so much an esoteric word that most people would get it without having to consult a dictionary. Actually, that gave me an idea. Underneath I could have in parentheses the dictionary pronunciation along with the definition "false; not genuine." How 'bout that?
Must look up Trademarking. Of course, some people might get killed wearing t-shirts and sweatshirts with that slogan. What do you think about that risk? Of course, I'm sitting here with my "Bring Back The Crusades" sweatshirt on, and OK. However - I haven't worn it out-of-doors. Big, big Difference.
I was hoping you were right darcy, but she's still here ... like a filthy, smelly ache in the belly, like CTYankee said.
Posted by: undaunted at February 19, 2008 12:17 PM
Actually, that's odd, undaunted. It must have been what I said about her "never returning after one post" that brought her out again! Oops, sorry! She must just troll along silently a lot...
"It (almost) goes without saying that the Amerike will be practicing Islam within the next 50 years...so yes... I am a friend and a role model to your grandaughters....you have a lot to learn."--Nasseem
See, here's why your people will fail, Nasseem. You're too arrogant, too sure-of-yourself, too prideful - and pride goeth before a fall.
There's an American saying, "The tide has turned." Indeed, the tide always, always, always, turns. And Islam will be defeated in the long run, even though you are right that in the short run things are going your way. Be advised - the tide will turn. Hitler was winning too, for a time. That ended. Though evil does pop up and thrive from time-to-time in this imperfect world, it always gets defeated in the end!
So, no, Nasseem, you can forget about our "grandaughters" viewing you as a "role model" because that horror has about as much chance of happening as little green men found on Mars. It's YOU -filled with a bloated self-righteousness and egomaniacal self-assurance and self-aggrandizement who has "a lot to learn."
I think it's a good theme and as for being in danger for wearing it, one would have to take that into serious consideration and then decide for themselves. Maybe it would be more appropriate to discuss details at my blog email.
"Why not reach out to Muslims, even you admit that they are not all jihadists? There are some moderates or at least those who are more modern. We can't expect that "good" Muslims must tow our party line."
One of the goal's of Spencer's website and work is to reach out to those Muslims that are genuinely against oppression and violent attack, and in favor of interpreting the Koran in a non-violent and non-oppressive way.
The problem is, these Muslims are very few and far between, and risk their lives for what they do.
The rest of the so-called "moderates" do not address the issues of interpretation that give the violent, megalomaniac jihadists the upper hand when it comes to down to the texts. They're not up to the fight, and are easy pickings for extremists unless they confront the tests and the issue of interpretation. They're lukewarm human rights and Islamic political expansion, and highly likely to either go bad, or be coerced into going along with extremists for fear of charges of apostasy.
"One of the goal's of Spencer's website and work is to reach out to those Muslims that are genuinely against oppression and violent attack, and in favor of interpreting the Koran in a non-violent and non-oppressive way."--hope & justice
Where are they? I never see any here.
"Guirardians...."
-- from the article above
Noun "Guirardian" comes from the name of James or Jim Guirard, and means "one who follows the strategy, accepts the nostrums, of James Guirard in dealing with Islam."
See:
http://theamericanmuslim.org/tam.php/features/articles/terrorism_hirabah_versus_jihad_rescuing_jihad_from_the_al_qaeda_blasphemy
See:
"Jihad Not Hirabah"
Naseem states: "...I am a friend..."
Really! (outburts of laughter!)
I see that our "friend" Naseem is back peddling her rotten goods again.
Well, we have a saying in the west: With friends like you, who needs enemies. I think it certainly applies here.
Islam is not welcome here. Not on my watch. Please take your poopaganda and flush it. Thank you.
OY you lot,
surely you have something better to do than waste your time replying to Nauseous. This person obviously gets his rocks off by annoying you with his perverse islamic rubbish.
As Maggie said, "don't give them the oxygen of publicity"
I bet this creep has all his friends (if he has any) round to look at your outraged Dhimmi responses to his latest shitfest.
Its pointless trying to have a discussion with this person "it" is a stupid, ignorant,creepy,piece of crap correspondingly why are we wasting our time engaging with "it".
"It" obviously thrives on attention.
It is true he has the right to publish his views but we have the right to ignore them (at least for now).
Love for the Umma, Hatred for the Kufr
Assalamau Laikum darcy,
It is not my fault that empires come & go, the roman, british, they start with lots of success, indeed kaffur like you have had intense success in the 19th & 20th centuary often for the good of all mankind, I can honestly say that my Anwer probably survived an extra month with the use of Kaffur medicine.
But let me bring you back to this duniya before you get too big headed. Wuslimism has been predicted ..."Allah, will bring victory to all wuslims east and west"
This has been foretold in the Hadith, Islam will be where the sun rises, shines, and sets. Islam will be where the moon shines ....and where there is no light the shine of Islam will brighten it.
The 21st centuary *is* about Islam. It is *for* Islam and is the time where the kaffur will learn to love Islam....hey there is no need to feel left out...join
Democracy is majority rule and through democracy many sharia laws will come about too...(you have seen how Ronan wants this for all of you), passed through democratic law institutions...true infidel may watch with horror but accept it as due process would heve been followed.
What else can I say....there is a burka out there for you.... inshallah.
Naseem, you remind me of Seoul City Sue, or Hanoi Hanna, a female propagandist spouting huge lies in the hope of demoralizing the troops in a war zone.
Not much chance of that here.
Naseem said
Yes, go, Ahmadis. Go, Hanafis. Go, Shafi'is, Malikis, Hanbalis. Go, Maturidis, Ash'aris, Murji'ites, Atharis. Go Deobandis, go Balevis, go Salafists. Go Bektashis, go Kubrawiya'is, go Qizilbashis. Go Seveners, go Fivers, go Twelvers. Go Alawites, go Druze. Go Fatamids. Go Sufis. Go Wahhabis.
Just go.
Amen.
special_guest,
Spare the Druze. They have effectively separated, and are quite distinct from, the Muslims. They loyally serve in the Israeli Defense Forces. Many are fully integrated into Israeli society, even when they don't intermarry with other Israelis. The Alawite regime in Syria profoundly distrusts them. Lebanese Druze oppose Hezbollah, Iran, and Syrian influence and attempts to dominate.
We do not need Jim Girard on the Saudi payroll to tell us the "true" meaning of jihad. When their masks are off, the Saudis themselves tell us and show us the original and primary sense of the word in all its rancid, putrified, rampant imfamy.
Amen to that, too.
John C said
The Alawites hate the Druze, therefore the Druze are our good allies? The Wahhabis hate the Ahmadi, therefore the Ahamadis are our strong allies?
Sunnis hate the Shi'a who hate the Sufis who hate the Ahamadis and so on in a giant circle of hatred, and I honestly couldn't care less.
The important questions are: Do the Druze read the Qur'an, and believe it is the word of Allah? Do the Druze reject the "Sixth Pillar" of Islam, jihad? If so, on what grounds? Do the Druze reject the concept of taqiyya? Do they reject the distinction between True Believer and filthy kufir?
The Druze were victims of intra-Islamic violence; the Israeli Jews gave them protection. The Druze and Jews have a common enemy, and will work together in the name of self-preservation.
Of course the Druze will serve in the IDF, if it is in their best interest. Of course the Saudis will welcome us to their airbases, if it is in their best interest. Of course Musharraf will accept money and weapons from the U.S., if it is in his best interest.
The Druze will work with the Israelis, the Kurds will work with the U.S. And one day, their comparative position of weakness may change. On the other hand, the writings of the Qur'an will never change.
I no longer believe in the mission of looking for the "moderate Muslims" who can be our true allies.
Naseem,
Lol , love the parody! You are a wit- a regular female Borat.
"...true infidel may watch with horror but accept it as due process would heve been followed."
....my personal favorite from Nauseum....she just loves sending well wishes our way. LOL!!!
naseem gets under our skin, because, deep down inside, we know she's right. At least the way thing are going now, she's right. She's right that America will become a muslim majority someday and our grand children will have to deal with the mess.
It's called the legal jihad, and there isn't anything we can do about it. The demographics will bring us down. Within 50 years (that sound reasonable, considering how much muslims breed), we will have a muslim president and muslims in all of the seats in congress. You can kiss the republicans vs democrat thing goodbye. They'll only be one party in congress - the sharia party.
Sound scary? It is.
Only a small percentage of us seems to even understand this problem. Most of America is clueless. How can we wake the majority of the people to the threat of islam before it's too late? We not only have to wake these people (all 300 million of them), but we have to get them to enact laws that will stop the legal jihad. Can we do it in 50 years time?
Calling her "Nauseum": champ ... marvelous.
Wish I'd said that. Dang.
:-)
Thanks for your comment to me, Nasseem.
Unfortunately for you, "allah" doesn't exist, so whatever "he" says will not happen.
LOL, the only Burqua is for YOU - our grandaughters will continue to be free and wear whatever clothing they please, not dictated by misogynist males as Islamic males are, the Barbarians.
BTW, *you* are the kaffir - the infidel, as you worship a human male who was 100% evil, Mohammed, and a pre-Islamic pagan moon deity that doesn't exist, "allah." I so pity your barbarism - you're blind as a bat and you don't even know it. Pitiful. May you realize your errors and accept the only true God - Jesus, the Living God, not a rock idol, "allah."
Please take your poopaganda and flush it. Thank you.
Posted by: champ at February 19, 2008 1:59 PM
LOL champ! It's "poop" allright!
Naseem's is the voice of the child who taunts from the window knowing he is safe from paying for his insolence. Should the knock come at the door, he will cower in the closet and, if dragged forth to be spanked, will wail at the injustice.
Every day Islam makes itself more odious in the eyes of Americans and bit by bit the damnfoolishness of Multiculturalism is revealed. Even in Europe, written off by many as lost, the scales are falling off the eyes and Liberty is once more reasserting itself.
Islam will fail because it has nothing to offer the living and only a comic book version of heaven to offer the dead.
Islam will fail because it is a lie.
mrockroll1969: yours is a tough post to read. Really tough. I can't say I disagree with you. But maybe we only have to wake 150 million of them, plus one.
Not meanin' to be snotty here. Not at all.
I think we can do things in addition to write and read blogs.
There are lots of creative, public, peacable things we can do. I'm putting together a plan for a car-wash to raise money, which will go to organizations that provide care and cover for Muslim girls in danger. Signs will say something like "Help Stop the Murder of Innocent Girls." We'll have printed material on sharia law, honor killings and FGM to hand out and business cards with the web addresses of sites that tell the truth. I'm not going to list the security precautions here but, considering the nature of the threat, they will be substantial ~ and legal.
This isn't my blog, it belongs to Robert and Hugh, both of whom I respect and appreciate, even though Hugh stiffed me on the whirled peas recipe. I have my own blog which is a slightly different flavor than JW or DW. I'm writing a post at my blog that will detail the steps necessary to put together one of these public outreaches. If Robert/Hugh will consent to publish this post tonight, then maybe some of us can put our heads together there and we can join the battle Robert and Hugh fight here ... and publicly.
That's what I'm gong to do. I ain't going down without a fight, unerschrocken.
undaunted,
That car wash idea is excellent. I've been racking my brains trying to figure out what I can do for the girls like Amina and Sarah who are stuck in that cult. I just feel sort of helpless (how many times can I write my congressmen?), geez, I can't even convince my girlfriend about the danger of islam. She's a liberal (she just told me yesterday that she's voting for hillary!). Everytime I bring up islam, she covers her ears, runs into the other room and says she doesn't want to hear about it.
It's a crazy world we're living in.
Naseem wrote:
you will need me to remind you of the halfway future that we can all have...
.........................................
At least the Communists had the decency to trumpet the Glorious Future of the Proletariat. Your "halfway future" is just as false, and even less inspiring.
How long do you think "Shari'ah lite" would last in an entirely Muslim world, even if that was something we actually wanted? The most Islamic countries--Saudi Arabia, Iran, and especially Afghanistan under the Taliban--have been hell on earth. Your own Pakistan is not much better, and getting steadily worse.
Thank you, my vision of the future is a little brighter than that.
I had a girlfriend like that once. She actually sat in a room in KSA and listened as a young Muslima in the next room was beaten to death by her family, for wearing lipstick. She told me it was just a cultural difference I was too intolerant to understand. And that's just one reason she's an ex.
Your input is appreciated.
USBeast states:..."Islam will fail because it is a lie."
May I offer a hearty AMEN to that statement!
Only it it's exposed as a lie.
Ugh...Champ,
you said:Well, we have a saying in the west: With friends like you, who needs enemies. I think it certainly applies here.
Islam is not welcome here. Not on my watch. Please take your poopaganda and flush it. Thank you.
Actually,I think this would be more appropriate "With friends like you who needs enemas..."
Have a nice evening,
KittyBootz
"One of the goal's of Spencer's website and work is to reach out to those Muslims that are genuinely against oppression and violent attack, and in favor of interpreting the Koran in a non-violent and non-oppressive way."--hope & justice
Where are they? I never see any here.
Posted by: darcy at February 19, 2008 1:34 PM
darcy,
Regardless, the aforemntioned point is, in my estimation, Robert's position as well.
To state otherwise, is to put forth the premise that all Muslims are incapable of acknowledging the problems inherent in Islam, and unwilling to address these problems, without forfeiting their status as a Muslim.
It is certainly difficult to stereotype a billion plus people who share certain depths of an ideology, namely Islam, but likewise, certainly reasonable to assume, that it varies noticably.
To date, the so-called "moderates" continue to do a disservice to their own faith with their obstinance or outright silence. This is typical when dealing with Islamists as a majority, at least in my personal experience.
Repeat after me...There very well may be moderate Muslims, but there certainly is no moderate Islam. Nuance? Yes, but relevant as a distinction.
A juxtaposition, indeed.
When do we get to find out what percentage is "moderate" and what percenatge is "radical"? How do we find out? So, do you treat a muslim as the enemy first, or do you wait till they blow someone up before you realise they are "radical"? We need to find answers to these questions before we are living under sharia law.
Eyas,
I read a couple of their articles. If thats their idea of a "moderate" muslim, then we are in a lot of trouble.
Naseem.....
OH! I get it!! Satire!
Sorry for taking you seriously before. LOL.
Assalamau Laikum mrockroll,
It seems that few peoples understand the power of Islam...but you see what I see ...albiet from the different perspective of dread and not joy....still no matter ...the end result is the same.
The Amerike have been the most advanced nation on this duniya for some time now....also with the most advanced weaponery.
So most of the Amerike nation lives in blissful ignorance...they think that Islam starts with the Taliban in Afganistan and ends in the Saud at Makkah ....and that their administration can deal with us whenever they feel like it.
Still others in the know feel that there will have an 11th hour reprieve with Cristianity making a strong comeback from the global south....Bigcatgirl is deluded with this fantasy....give me a break...
mrockroll, you together with perhaps the likes of Mr Spencer, Hugh, awake and some others ask this question 24*7.
"Is it really possible for the most powerful nation ever to be humbled nay overwhelmed...nay cultured....yes cultured by the philosophy of an illiterate 7th centuary prophet PBUH?"
To my mind ...absolutely....without question....because it is ordained, the power of merciful almighty Allah SWT cannot be challenged by man....especially kaffur....
Womens like champ,dolly and cindy are living in denial and are deluded by their current environment...will they have to change?
Before their very eyes...I tell you
no 11th hour reprieve,
no christianity revival,
no other prophet philosophy...Muhd SAW was the last.
champ....take your grandchild into Deen Islam from day one....don't wait for the fatwa!
Darcy,
So your T-shirt doesn't get too "wordy", how about a picture of the koran, with the words above or below it saying The Glorious Koran, with a line through Glorious, and written above it, Spurious?
Maybe we could convince Naseem to model it for us.
Everyone:
I have noted here several times before that this "Naseem" character is a non-Muslim provocateur who is enjoying getting you all worked up.
If there was any doubt about this before, please note what he says above (and stop writing me and telling me he is a she, please):
"Allah's flat earth policy"? That seems to be a reference to this story, in which a Muslim affirms that the earth is flat:
http://www.memritv.org/clip/en/1684.htm
However, this is not a mainstream Muslim view. Most Muslims will tell you that the Qur'an miraculously contains all sorts of scientific facts, including the idea that the earth is round. The fact that "Naseem" would say such a thing, rather than explaining this fellow away or making no reference to him at all, is the clearest indication yet that this is a non-Muslim who is having great fun at your expense.
Proceed at your own risk.
Cordially
Robert Spencer
"Most Muslims will tell you that the Qur'an miraculously contains all sorts of scientific facts," posted above by RS
You mean like "The sun sets in a pool of black mud?" Sorry, I don't have the surah/verse but I know it's in there!
Darcy,
So your T-shirt doesn't get too "wordy", how about a picture of the koran, with the words above or below it saying The Glorious Koran, with a line through Glorious, and written above it, Spurious? -I'm No Dhimmi
Thanks for the suggestion. Simplest is best, definitely. Actually, this occurred to me: Just the words "Spurious, not Glorious." I think having a pic of the K would be too dangerous for people.
"She's a liberal (she just told me yesterday that she's voting for hillary!). Everytime I bring up islam, she covers her ears, runs into the other room and says she doesn't want to hear about it." --mrockroll1969
Wow, I couldn't have a relationship with such a MoonBat. Can't even *discuss* Islam/Mo/K, rockroll? How do you deal with that as these are obviously important subjects to you? Why "doesn't she want to hear about it"? Really, I'd like to know why. What's she afraid of?
Whether Naseem is legitimate or not is irrelevant. My distaste for the unsavory troll remains the same.
OK, enough about Naseem.
I implore the community to ignore the principle of the "moderate" Muslim. They are equally irrelevant when compared to the ideology of Islam.
If anyone is expecting a mainstream movement by them, even though they certainly exist, although likely mislabeled "moderate", you are most likely to be disappointed.
The link below is a discussion about the cartoon reprints from a "moderate" site. I think it sufficiently defines one of the major obstacles. Whether Muslims prescribe to violence against unbelievers, their introspective criticism is far outweighed by their disdain for their external critics.
http://muslimmatters.org/2008/02/14/the-silent-treatment/#comments
Their ideology prevents any rational self-criticism, effectively putting the boot to the throat of their own "internal struggle".
That being said, we should still focus on the game, not the player.
Darcy,
Yes, it's in sura 18:86. Watch for it a few segments hence in my Blogging the Qur'an series.
Cordially
Robert Spencer
Assalamau Laikum all,
Mr Spencer has cast doubt on my credentials regarding me as a Ahmadi muslimah...based on my assertion of "flat earth policy".
Let me start by saying whole heartly that Alhumdulilla I welcome this enquiry ...but not on my character....I will re-assert that I am who I am...a widowed 40+ Ahmadi muslimah living in Lahore, Pak.
Now onto the flat earth question....I *know* that this duniya is round...(I have a British University degree)...although there are terms that we belive apply to the flatness of the Earth such as: carpet, bed, and level, and are commonly use throughout the Koran. Passages that refer to the "carpets, beds, and levels," e.g.
Sura 51:48"And the Earth - we have stretched it out like a carpet; and how smoothly have we
spread it forth."
Sura 20:55 "He hath spread the Earth as a bed, and hath traced out paths for you therein, and hath sent down rain from Heaven, and by it we bring forth the kinds of various herbs..."
Sura 67:15 "It is He who hath made the Earth level for you: traverse then its broad sides, and eat of what He hath provided. - Unto Him shall be the resurrection."
These are but analogies....put there to aid understanding...for as slaves of Allah SWT how can we possibly fully understand his sayings.
But Mr. Spencer...please note MY words carefully
"Allah's flat earth policy"?
So this is not so much a reference to the earth being flat...but more to a POLICY of belonging.
Today muslims primarily live in the ME and the East....but as time goes by, soon muslims/wuslims will live in the South and the North and the West too....in essence it will not matter where wuslims live ...it's home everywhere...a level playing field....a "flat" earth POLICY of belonging if you will.
Hope this clears the confusion in your mind, I won't even bother with the clip that you attached.
Darcy,
Yes, it's in sura 18:86. Watch for it a few segments hence in my Blogging the Qur'an series.
Cordially
Robert Spencer
Posted by: jihadwatch at February 20, 2008 9:14 AM
Sura 18: The Cave
verse 84 in my paperback Koran translated by John Medows Rodwell:
"Until when he reached the setting of the sun, he found it to set in a miry fount."
"miry fount" - is that an OK translation, Mr. Spencer?
darcy,
"What's she afraid of?"
I don't know. I guess she's afraid of what all liberals are afraid of - the truth. Ignorance is bliss for some people, I think.
darcy:
I think "miry fount" is a bit unclear. "Muddy spring" is better.
Cordially
Robert Spencer
Naseem Alert!
You see that longish post above replying to RS?
Whoa - it is *way* too grammatically correct for just a regular Muslim living in Pakistan. Ditto spelling. And this final sentence sounds quite male - definitely not a "muslimah":
Hope this clears the confusion in your mind, I won't even bother with the clip that you attached.
Posted by: Naseem at February 20, 2008 9:27 AM
So, you see folks, in his haste to respond to RS, "Naseem" neglected to sound like her usual semi-literate self and as such outed himself.
RS is right - "Naseem" is not a Mohammedan and is not female.
Robert, Hugh, And Marisol,
I see that this thread has been hijacked by troll activity bigtime.
Naseem is in for a shock, the REAL FASTEST GROWING RELIGION IS NOT ISLAM, BUT CHRISTANITY.
The truth is that the Bible is closer to being scentific correct then the Koran could ever be. One of the most odd sayings of the Koran is about the sun setting in a mud puddle. One of the best passages from the Holy Bible is the Psalm 104 of praise to God the Creator.
http://www.lsureveille.com/media/storage/paper868/news/2008/02/20/Opinion/Appeasement.Not.Viable.Strategy.To.Fight.Extremists-3220882.shtml
Please read the above fabulous un-PC column in a university 'paper!
There is no delusion here, in TRUTH there is MASSIVE GROWTH in the global south nations of CHRISTIANITY. There is research that backs this up, thanks to noted historian from Penn State University, Philip Jenkins in a number of articles and books.
An example URL :
http://www.firstthings.com/article.php3?id_article=5388
Also another URL about the explosive growth of Christanity of all places, China :
http://www.worldmag.com/articles/11971
Just do a search about the growth of Christanity in the global south on Google and other search engines and there are plenty of articles. The debate is now over.
You see "Naseem" has not reappeared because he knows the jig is up!
Darcy; ..."The sun sets in a pool of black mud?"
More like 'Black gold' ie crude, the source of this revival of Islam. No crude, no money, no jihad.
Sorry, should have added 'no influence'.
Assalamau Laikum Darcy,
Who are you to keep tabs on this muslimah?
Are you Mr. Spencer's keeper or something?
There is no jig to give up ...you kaffur fool.
If I didn't come for a while ...it's because I have work to do...apparently unlike some nosy "spy"...Darcy spend more time with your shor...it makes for a happy marriage.....like I had with Anwer while alive!
"you kaffur fool." --posted by Mr. Naseem
LOL! Hahahahahahahahaha!
Nope - YOU are the "kaffur fool," you Barbarian!
Laughing my *** off! Haha!
Give up your jig, Mr. Naseem - we're SO on to your fraud, just like we're on to Mohammed's 7th century fraud! LOL!
Darcy - notice how Nauseum called her beloved Anwer an "Ox", which is hardly the sort of statement that a grieving WIDOW would make; but it's certainly the sort of crass comment that a 'faker' would make.
More proof Naseem is a poser.
OK - what do they call men who are posing as women? Cross_______? Darn!!
Darcy - notice how Nauseum called her beloved Anwer an "Ox", which is hardly the sort of statement that a grieving WIDOW would make; but it's certainly the sort of crass comment that a 'faker' would make.
More proof Naseem is a poser.
Posted by: champ at February 20, 2008 9:17
"Nauseum" - I love it, champ. Very good!
Oh, is that what "shor" means? I didn't know. Not that I care!
Re-read that insulting and agressive post again - sure sounds like a "muslimah," doesn't it? -NOT!
Sounds like a guy. Uh Huh. Jig. Is. Up. For. Ad. Nauseum.!
Hey darcy! Yeah, I've noticed others using the "Nauseum" version, guess it's catching on - LOL!
darcy,
Keep up the good work of standing up to Naseem. God Bless you.