Uh, I think they made that choice a long, long time ago. Or rather, they have never had to make it, because Israel has made sure that the electricity has kept on humming along no matter what. Of course, if the Israelis had not done this, the international pressure would have been outrageous. "Two Sderot houses hit in fresh Qassam barrage," from Haaretz (thanks to Sr. Soph):
Gaza militants fired a fresh barrage of Qassam rockets at the western Negev town of Sderot on Friday evening, two of which hit houses in the town and left three people suffering from shock.[...]The eight rockets fired in the barrage, three of which hit Sderot, brought the total number of Qassams launched at Israeli communities Friday to 30.
In earlier attacks, four Sderot residents were treated for shock and a warehouse was damaged.
Palestinians in Gaza also fired a mortar into southern Israel.
In the early afternoon, five rockets were reported to have struck near the coast south of Ashkelon, one of which struck the grounds of Kibbutz Zikim.
Hamas, Islamic Jihad and the Popular Resistance Committees claimed responsibility for the Qassam fire. On Thursday Palestinians fired a dozen rockets and eight mortar shells.
Late Thursday, Israel cut back around one percent of the power it supplies to Gaza, Defense Ministry spokesman Shlomo Dror said. Israel will continue gradually scaling back electricity until the territory's Hamas rulers end the rocket fire, he said Friday.
"It's their choice. They need to choose if they want to keep investing in
rockets and in attacking Israel or if they want electricity from Israel," Dror said.
"Israel cut back one percent. . . " Why bother? A one percent power reduction is not even enough to cause a brown out.
Nobody at any time in human history has been required to continue to support & provide services to those who are trying to murder them in their beds. Cut off the power - ALL the power!
One percent? One percent??? Do the leaders of Israel now drink the same cool-aid as the American and British leaders. I'm sure the guys firing the rockets are laughing their *sses off. Why not just turn the switch to "off" for a day, then a week, then a month, and after that cut the wires roll them up and take them to the scrap yard. This is kind of like telling your neighbor who continues to use your house as a rifle target that he can't use your pool for part of Saturday. No wonder Muslims hold the west in such contempt. I agree with them at least on that.
Personally, Israel should just pull the plug. Let the "palestinians" use candles during the daylight.
But naturally the rest of the world would condemn Israel. So, damned if they do and damned if they don't. They will still be criticized for incrementally turning down the power. So, to borrow from Nike, just do it.
Do they pay for this power?
If not, start billing them for it and when they dont pay cut off 1/2 the power until they do. If they still dont pay cut them off completly and show the world the unpaid bill. Im shure everybody would understand that.
One percent a day, for 100 days. But no restoration of service. They choose. It is absurd to supply those who wish to kill you. Had the Arabs not been the beneficiaries of the oil,discovered by Westerners, brought to the surface by Western technology, transported by Western-built and Western-maintained ships and pipelines, with uses for that oil which were entirely developed in the West, they would now be as primitive, and as poor, as the other, oil-less Arabs, such as those who now call themselves --so many of them the descendants of Arabs who simply moved to "Palestine" between 1900 and 1940, to enjoy the fruits of the economic activity that the Zionist settlers, reclaiming the land, building farms and small industry, created -- the "Palestinians," as well as the Arabs of Egypt and Jordan who, without Infidel aid, would certainly not have those television sets and motorcycles and cars and computers and all the rest of the things that those Arabs who are called "Palestinians" think they are somehow entitled to, paid for by Infidels, and that, furthermore, they have a right to energy to run many of those things, to be supplied by those whom they wish to kill, and attempt to kill, and often do kill -- the Israelis.
It is intolerable. It is intolerable that anyone should expect the Israelis to supply such energy. It is intolerable that any Israeli government hesitates for a second before turning off even a tiny fraction of that supplied electricity. It sets up expectations that no one has a right to possess -- not the Arabs, not the U.N., not all the "outraged" people elsewhere who exhibit the symptoms of a diseased sympathy.
Cut them off and leave it off. If thay want power thay can pay hard currancy for it. In addition I would do very agressive counter battery fire.
"It's their choice. They need to choose if they want to keep investing in rockets and in attacking Israel or if they want electricity from Israel," Dror said.
That's some choice. How about:
"Choose to keep investing in rockets and in attacking Israel and you will be attacked in like manner. Choose to live in peace and you will get electricity from Israel. The choice is yours. The next rocket launched from Gaza will result in a permanent power outage within Gaza."
Who cares what the world thinks. Rockets on, power off. Rockets off, power on. A very simple concept really. They should have thought of that years ago...
They reduced it 1%. When would it go back up???
What is the exchange rate between the 1% and the amount of rocket fire received?
The whole idea is rather clever. Hamas has it's power needs tied completely to its own behavior. Israel would not even have to retaliate militarily during this period.
Israel has a data base on the number of rockets they received over any given period of time. It is rather simple matter to establish a time period over which they wish to divest themselves of supplying Electricity. The old (X)/100=1%.
It would be a bit difficult for the Press to blame Israel for actions Hamas clearly brings upon themselves.
Israel receives this rocket fire as it is. For once it has tied a price tag to it. If Israel were smart, they would halt Military retaliation without making it public as a matter of Policy. All it need do is slowly, with the World watching, see Hamas turn off its own lights. Over
a time of its own choosing.
Is this self imposed siege by Hamas a first of its kind in History?
How priceless is it for the World to iew Hamas bite the Jewish Hand that feeds it?
Bomb them back. Bomb them into the stone age! Fight this war in an old fashioned way. Bomb them until you win or until they unconditionally surrender!
Re: "It's their choice. They need to choose if they want to keep investing in attacking Israel or if they want electricity from Israel"
Muslims are pro choice. They want to kill Israel. They must control their own Dar-al-Islam body. They made the choice in this matter some time ago.
The only thing that has ever worked on Arab savages is: disproportionate retaliation. Olmert choses to turn the other cheek and allow missiles to run on Israeil towns, even those that have plants that produce a quarter of Israel's power. Madness.
Church of England primate, Archbishop Rowan Williams has caused a storm in the UK by suggesting that aspects of Sharia law be introduced into the UK legal system.
For such an intellectual man he seems very naive about this.
This is just what the Islamic extremists will be wanting, should it ever be implemented.
If Sharia is introduced, many Islamists will inevitably seek its extension into other areas. How long before the nasty bits come along, such as the so-called Hudud penalites, which allows for amputations, stonings and beheadings?
Could such a thing ever happen on the streets of Britain? And where would this leave women and gays?
I feel that Rowan Williams is being very short-sighted. He obviously means well, but this will create a two-tier legal system. It would be a dangerous precedent in my opinion.
It's as if this country is being sold down the river.
Church of England primate, Archbishop Rowan Williams has caused a storm in the UK by suggesting that aspects of Sharia law be introduced into the UK legal system.
For such an intellectual man he seems very naive about this.
This is just what the Islamic extremists will be wanting, should it ever be implemented.
If Sharia is introduced, many Islamists will inevitably seek its extension into other areas. How long before the nasty bits come along, such as the so-called Hudud penalites, which allows for amputations, stonings and beheadings?
Could such a thing ever happen on the streets of Britain? And where would this leave women and gays?
I feel that Rowan Williams is being very short-sighted. He obviously means well, but this will create a two-tier legal system. It would be a dangerous precedent in my opinion.
It's as if this country is being sold down the river.
In one sense I agree, cut it off 100%.
However I do see a tactic on the other side. They (PLO) will turn around and claim the victim card because Israel cut off the power. The 1% strategy, may work if Israel brings this before the world community. It could be through the UN or other avenues.
The Hamas, as I understand is targeting the power plants they want them out so they can cry and force world opinion. Well, it works both way even if it is stacked against Israel at this time.
Israel needs a civil war. Israel needs someone to sabotage the electric lines to Gaza. Israel IS THIS CLOSE TO ANNIHILATION.
I wish someone would stand up at a news briefing and ask the pres what he would do if mexico started shooting at the us.
O wait thats already happening,
i hope the people that live on the borders with these friends of ours make their govenors take a stand and defend them selves, just like i pray that the israelies get someone in office that will take a more indepth response to these murderers.
A year ago, an Israeli blogger answered a letter that I wrote concerning the potential response to a destructive attack on the Ashkelon power generating plant, which is believed to produce a quarter of Israel's needs. He said that Israel would have no alternative but to launch nuclear strikes on its neighbors. Why? If a plant is destroyed, there would be no point in rebuilding, if it could be destroyed again. They would want to destroy the source of the threat. Too bad that logic can't impact on Western brains. If stupidity was a crime, all but a handful of Western politicians would be behind bars.
Let me ask a naive question:
Who does Hamas buy their weaponry from?
Hugh mentions Arab oil. Again, Bush's slave-masters - the House of Saud - has Wahabis roots in Negd, Arabian Desert and not in Hijaz, where the holylands (al-Haramain) are. The oilfields are no where near those lands. In fact, it was Big Oil who championed sovereignty for the local savages, who they believed would serve Anglo-American interests, while nominal sovereignty recognition would satisfy international arrangements at the time. Saud sovereignty wasn't about rights; they were Western pawns. They became other than that, when they had the power to break the agreement.
So what was the situation when the Sauds received their current borders (most are NOT formally demarcated)? Communist and Fascist totalitarians were conducting hegemonic campaigns for world domination. Are there any global movements that would prevent repatriation of the Anglo-American oil-patch? Only the Islamofascists who broke the agreement. There is no Sino-Soviet bloc that can leverage America, on any issue. Why will George Walker Bush neither kill Islamofascist in numbers needed to secure US security, nor repatriate the oil patch? Big Oil has chosen to bend to the Saudi will, in deference to transient stability. And, Bush's sham "Middle East Democratic Initiative," was devised as a prop to political-Islam; Bush doesn't want Islamofascists to die, but he does want them to vote even though he knows that it will means legitimating constitutional Islamofascism throughout the Middle East. He knows that this nation-building work - at the mortal expense of the handful of remaining Seculars in the ME - will soon allow the enemy to place ICBMs targeted at the US Homeland. But by the time they do that, and the American media starts reporting elite treason, he will be one step from the grave.
Reminder: the oil-patch fires after the Kuwait intervention, were stamped out within 6 months. Well capping capabilities have expanded rapidly since then. And, even if the Saudis torched the wells - doing so would result in their nuclear annihilation - most of the larger wells are in extremely deep pockets. Note: Saudi wells are at least 50 times as productive as US wells. We could target the deepest for early capping.
In the alternative, we can go with Barack Obama and hold a post Bush conference with the Muslim world, then discuss reparations with them.
During the Cold War, we could attack the moral depravity of the enemy. Please open the attached post, and think of the content as a HUAC pamphlet, on the Soviets.
http://illustratedpig.blogspot.com/2008/02/moslem-what-have-you-to-say-to-this.html
Bush refuses to do anything to promote cultural unity with Russia, yet he allows the pollution of America with Muslim savages, while nation-building (read: legitimating Islamofascist constitutions) in the cess pools. If he had anything resembling a moral conscience, then he would puke everytime he looked in the mirror.
Let me also ask a naive question:
Why do some societies act barbaric with the weapons they posses, while others not nearly so?
-
I get it now. Hamas wages a war and Israel wages a pillow fight. Ehud Olmert really earned his dhimmi of the year award.
Cut them off! No negotiation, no surrender. Mortars get retaliation in kind. Rockets get retaliation in kind.
Jorge Arbusto needs to grow a set.
Olmert needs to grow a set.
The next President, whoever it may be, needs to grow a set.
I don't care if you think this is offensive but it is true.
There have been over 300 armed intrusions into the Texas by the Mexican Army in the last 3 years to protect the coyotes and the druggies. They come in with 50 cal machine guns to protect their interests but we cannot do anything to protect our own. NO ONE will do anything about it - not Bush, not Perry (Gov of Texas), not the Border Patrol, not the Dept of Homeland Security (what is misnomer!!!!!!).......
We need to secure our own borders NOW! AND let Israel secure their own.
When Sarah said "nasty bits" in her response above, I could only think of Monty Python and laugh. It just seemed applicable in context. Madness!
Even if there were not a single rocket coming from Gaza, why should Israel be supplying anything to the Arabs of Gaza? Clearly, they can get what they need from Egypt, or get used to the standard of living that billions of people in the world must endure, people who have not been the spoiled cynosure of all international eyes, and the constant recipients of billions of dollars in international aid, almost all of it coming from Infidels whom those same Muslim Arabs regard as Infidels unequal to them, unworthy of them, mere dutiful suppliers of Jizyah that had better keep on coming.
Leave them to their own devices. If they begin to live at the level that the Arabs, without oil or without Infidel aid (that is merely the up-to-date equivalent of the Jizyah extorted from non-Muslims that once supported the Muslim state), have traditionally lived at, so what? Why should anyone have led them to expect otherwise?
"Let me ask a naive question:
Who does Hamas buy their weaponry from?
Posted by: Blue "
....they do not buy weapons...weapons are given to them by Iran and delivered through Egypt...
....the US and Israel both gave weapons to Fatah, which Hamas promptly seized....
....Hamas gets weapons usually delivered by ship from CHina, North Korea, and Russia....these are the purchased weapons.
....Hamas gets weapons from Egypt and Syria delivered via the Egyptian border....
The Palestinians don't have to make this choice it is one that is imposed on them. Its hard to understand why they are targeting Palestinians as a whole and not question their intentions. It's not just Hamas militants who will suffer from this action, it is the old men, woman and children who will also die as their life-support machines are switched off. The Israeli's hardly give any electricity to Gaza, they have simply blockaded a Palestinian power station and this violates the laws of war that Israel supposedly adheres to according to the Human Rights Watch.
Its strange how people armed with stones can be deemed as terrorists. What possible damage can a stone do to a soldier or a settler 100 metres away? Even people enjoying a seaside picnic are targeted.
The biggest victims of Israel are Palestinian children. Now ask yourselves do you support that? The Israeli army are armed to the teeth with high-tech weaponry yet they cannot take their targets out without the use of air strikes? Don't they realise that one air-strike is likely to kill a whole family as well as countless others. How cheap is Palestinian blood?
Nigel Parry exposed them, John Pilger exposed them, Robert Fisk exposed them, Amnesty International exposes them, the Red Cross has exposed their actions countless times. These are all people who have been there and seen the situation first-hand with the exception of Amnesty International- a staunch critic of the Israeli army, which is near-enough banned from Israel.
Look Saracen, Don't you read well enough to see that the "militants" are firing quassam rockets at Israel willynilly and could care less about the old men, women and children that they kill? I can't believe that you are talking about throwing stones. All of your rhetoric about the poor oppressed palestinians won't change the fact that their #1 goal is to destroy Israel. I can tell you're one of them. So don't come whining here about the these people's dilemma. They bring it on themselves.
And how cheap is palestinian blood to hamas and fatah? Cheap enough to risk it everyday with quassam rockets not to mention mortars. Your people wouldn't be dying if it weren't for hamas and fatah.
But thats whole point you cannot fathom the idea that Israel would just attack Palestinians for no reason. They humiliate the Palestinians, shoot their children who are playing a game of football, force their woman to give birth at checkpoints, tear the hijab from the heads of the females, harass the Palestinians daily. You try living like that and report back to me who you feel.
I'm basically using the evidence from non-biased western journalists and charities to base my conclusions which is far more honest than the western media, who paint the Palestinians as the aggressors every time something happens in the region. I can't remember the last time an Isreali citizen died from a rocket attack and before Hamas and fatah Palestinians were facing even worse treatment than they are now.
Well, Saracen, I just read that your hamas militants siezed 16 trailer trucks with humanitarian aid and diverted them to a warehouse in Gaza somewhere. I don't think that the Israelis had anything to do with that. That your people are confined with so many limitations
are the direct responsibility of the militants who wish for your people to forever retaliate against the jews for every conceived slight. The murderous nature is on both sides and noone is innocent. But the fact still remains that the palestinians will never negotiate a peace with Israel and the people will forever suffer. Do you honestly think that the poor, hungry and sick in Gaza will see that humantarian aid? Hamas will see to it that they don't.
thesaracen, We are not concerned with the Palestinians lack of 3rd and 4th generation Weapon systems. Systems that would actually help them kill Israelis more effectively. We look at it as a blessing.
If Israel were to conduct operations like the Palestinians do, they would just conduct a general Grid artillery bombardment.
Just because Palestinian Rocket fire rarely kills anyone, does not mean the Rockets were not fired in the first place.
To follow your reasoning, You would have no problem if all your Neighbors shooting at your house everyday so long as they didn't hit you or your family?????????????
Oh, I see, so because Israelis have been lucky enough to escape death, we should excuse the Palis? What abotu the constant PTSD suffered by the Israeli children? The terror and fear suffered by the residents of Sderot?
The venomous hatred of the Palis, of their willingness to use whatever weapons they have, should we excuse this too?
thesaracen - all this garbage at the checkpoints would not exist if the STUPID VICIOUS Palestinians would stop trying to kill Israelis!
The checkpoints would not exist if they stopped trying to kill Israelis.
Hate to tell you, saracen, you and your people are not interesting enough to want to oppress.
The vicious climate you inhabit is the oppressor.
BTW, Fisk, Pilger, Comsky, unbiased? Don't make me laugh.
As for Palestinian children being such victims of the Israelis, where is your passion for these children when they are being trained as suicide bombers?
Where is your passion when their minds are being sucked out by the terrorists and hatred and murder is placed there instead?
Where is your anger at the constant betrayal of Palestinian childhood by the cultivation of murder and Jew-hatred and as away of life?
Where is your anger at the disgusting theft of intewrnational aid by Hamas leaders and Al-Aqsa leaders from the welfare organisations that cater to Palestinian arab children?
Well?
Apologies for spelling erros, all.