Jordan: Hamas picking off humanitarian aid sent to Gaza

""We are surprised it should be confiscated and distributed in a manner based on political considerations...this only penalises those who really deserve this aid," Joudeh said.

....and were not the intended receipients Muslims?.....The Muslims who seized the items (probably, food, medicine, or other items intended to easy the burdens of poverty or sickness) are clearly showing their humanitarian side....or is it their evil side....

Was there ever any doubt? Of course not. The great hypocrisy is that we are prosecuting people as enablers of terrorism while our tax money is the biggest enabler of all---Such ignorant fools we have running our countries when it comes to the Palestinian Terror-tory. The most amazing part is that we never, never learn year after year of what is so blatantly obvious to the casual observer.

Surprised?!?
All Muslim governments do the same thing, when foreign aid comes to their countries. It's treated as Jizya sent by foolish Dhimmi. It is considered owned by the Caliph and the local sultanate in charge of the area.

END ALL FOREIGN AID NOW. I CAN DO MY OWN CHARITY FOR MYSELF. AND I DON’T WANT THE TAXES TORN FROM MY HIDE TO SUPPORT MY GOVERNMENT SENT TO SOME ONE ELSE’S GOVERNMENT.

“Millions for defense, but not one cent for tribute.” -- Charles Cotesworth Pinckney

Surprised, no

It is only good business for Hamas, they cant afford to have a bunch of CARE packages, or the Jewish or European equivalent turning up around the country. Average Joe Camel there might start thinking that maybe they aren't so bad after all and refuse to put on the vest and blow themselves up.

Easy, they take the CARE label off and stick a Hamas label on and throw in some Hero Chips and a Mickey Jihad doll, and BINGO..... FREE ADVERTISING for the cause. Its a big win win for Hamas.

END ALL FOREIGN AID NOW. I CAN DO MY OWN CHARITY FOR MYSELF. AND I DON’T WANT THE TAXES TORN FROM MY HIDE TO SUPPORT MY GOVERNMENT SENT TO SOME ONE ELSE’S GOVERNMENT.

Posted by: senor doeboy at February 9, 2008 11:46 AM

Bush is supporting Islamic terror with US Tax money, which is bad enough. It fets worse from there.. Even if Bush as much as breathed a word about atopping Jizya, Saudis pull Bush's strings and next thing you know Bush Tangos for Islamic terror, with Condi in the lead, with US tax-dollars in gift-bags. So much for 'US-president/commander-in-chief/leader-of-free-world'!

I'm shocked! Truly, I am!

Wait, I just remembered - "War is deceit".

"...this only penalises those who really deserve this aid,"

IMHO there is no Palistanians who 'deserve' any aid. I think most of us are agreed on that.

"Bush is supporting Islamic terror with US Tax money, which is bad enough. It fets worse from there.. Even if Bush as much as breathed a word about atopping Jizya, Saudis pull Bush's strings and next thing you know Bush Tangos for Islamic terror, with Condi in the lead, with US tax-dollars in gift-bags. So much for 'US-president/commander-in-chief/leader-of-free-world'!

Posted by: Alert"

Somehow I do not think that the next president will do differently.

I will be very surprised if the flow of jizya stops next year. We'll see.

Bush is supporting islamic terror with U.S.tax money.
from above

Please tell me what president has not and especially how the next demo president will not. Clinton lavished those clowns with money AND attention. I offer Arafat as the prime example. Obama and HC are salivating at the prospect of being the next supreme ass kisser and receiver of Saudi largesse.

Bush is supporting islamic terror with U.S.tax money.
from above

Please tell me what president has not and especially how the next demo president will not. Clinton lavished those clowns with money AND attention. I offer Arafat as the prime example. Obama and HC are salivating at the prospect of being the next supreme ass kisser and receiver of Saudi largesse.

Pismopal:

The Clinton's are already swimming in Saudi and Arab bribes:

http://www.nysun.com/article/5137

And don't forget the 10 million recently given by the Saudis to the Clinton library:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/12/14/AR2007121402124.html

It also seems GW Bush took some dough for his library. Probably preparing for a future of Religion of Peace lectures as a representative of American politics.

"Jordan says Hamas seizes aid covoy sent to Gaza,"

Surely they must be giving the aid back to the Palestinian people in a way thats more effective than the aid agencies would be able to. They are unlikely to seize an aid convoy to prevent their fellow Palestinians from benefiting from it.

As for Saudi Arabia, you paint it as if one side is more dependent on the other. You need Saudi Arabia on your side just as much as Saudi Arabia needs you. If thats wasn't the case then Saudi Arabia would have been under US occupation well before Iraq was. If so many of you object to US ties with Saudi Arabia then why doesn't your president sever them?
Saudi Arabia needs you on their side because without the protection your country provides it, it would have been under serious attack. Without Saudi Arabia on your side, you would be paying a hell of a lot more for petrol than you do now. Your economy would be in turmoil simply put.

All of you say Yasser Arafat was a terrorist. Well that was only according to the US and Israel anyway. If he was this terrorist you all claim he was why was he given such adulation by so many heads of state around the world upon his death? Not the kind of treatment you would expect for a terrorist is it?

How come we never hear about this:

Video: The Appalling Treatment of Christians in Egypt

http://sheikyermami.com/2008/02/09/video-the-appalling-treatment-of-christians-in-egypt/

"If he was this terrorist you all claim he was why was he given such adulation by so many heads of state around the world upon his death?"

Arafat was a two-faced liar, and there were those who wanted to believe in his whole man-of-peace act; but as soon as he turned around, he was back at his old terrorist tricks. Basically, he played on the trusting nature of those foolish enough to buy into his BS - that's why he received "adulation" - something he truly did not deserve.

Surprised?

HAMAS has been taking every UN crate that comes in there, removing the US flags and sticking the green HAMAS flag on it, FOR 35 YEARS.

What a crock. Everybody knows that, and it is ridiculous for the Jordanians to pretend they haven't known it all along, too.

thesaracen said

Surely they must be giving the aid back to the Palestinian people in a way thats more effective than the aid agencies would be able to.

Surely. Muslims stealing food out of the mouths of fellow Muslims? That surely is not happening, not within the Religion of Peace. I bet the humanitarian workers who make this claim are all Joooooooos.

champ can't you get enough of me? Am I your biggest draw? The moment I say something I know my friend champ will be the first to reply.
Arafat was a man who stood up for the Palestinian people. He stood up for justice in the same way Ghandi and Mandela did. They were both labeled terrorists, did you know that?

Arafat was offered proposals that were totally against the Palestinian people and said NO! Thats why they called him a terrorist, because he never gave in and become a puppet leader.

"Am I your biggest draw?"

Yes, thes, I've become infatuated with you. Come on, I either respond to posters for one of three reasons: I agree with them / I STRONGLY disagree with them / I'm amused by something they said.

You tend to fall into category #2; but then don't we share that in common? You were the first to confront me a couple of weeks ago due to something I wrote that you did not agree with - yet I didn't feel the need to criticize you for doing that because it comes with the terrority.

I am sensing a double standard.

champ I'm going to keep this short and sweet, no double standards from my part. And criticise away I'm man enough to take it and respond with dignity. I'm merely highlighting that you must either admire or hate me because you're always one of the first to reply to my posts.

I'm sure the aid gets to the Palestinian people, but with a new label on the packages: "Hamas relief agency."

"All of you say Yasser Arafat was a terrorist. Well that was only according to the US and Israel anyway. If he was this terrorist you all claim he was why was he given such adulation by so many heads of state around the world upon his death? Not the kind of treatment you would expect for a terrorist is it?
Posted by: thesaracen"

The reason they kissed the terrorist Arafart's ass is that the LEFT has "marched through the institutions" In Germany an ex-Anrchist stone thrower and police-kicker became the foreign minister. He now works for a thinktank in DC. After he helped screw things up in Germany of course. The little guys now are left to pick up the pieces.

But I digress.. what u call "adulation" is more of a "going-along-with-it" since the center has been so effectively moved to the Left that a terrorist hijacker is now called a freedom fighter.

Quite disgusting in fact. Most Western leaders probably have a negative opinion of Arafart - BEHIND CLOSED DOORS that is.

Noone wants to come out and say the obvious!

Can u imagine the much-maligned Germans coming out tough and blazing against terrorists - even verbally? I can't.

The British.. browbeaten.. those "evil colonialists"..

The Dutch, the French, Spain.. everyone has their own particular pathology and each is being exploited cunningly by the peddlers of islam - like you, saracen. Hey they're even changing the names of those numerous pubs in England that go by the name of "Saracen's head". Why do u imagine they are doing that?

So please.. everyone knows what Arafart was.. just noone had the courage to break ranks and speak out.

I can only add that Sarkozy has turned out to be a major disappointment. He is retracting on virtually everything he stood for before the election.. seems like he is pulling a Dubya on us.

I wonder if there is a paymaster at work that bbuys off whatever opposition we do manage to get into elected office.

Islam is certainly attacking all our democracies at their weakest points. They are good at one thing, which is to foster division and dissent. To split the natives against each other so they become the balance that tips the scales of power in favor of creeping sharia which is beginning to creep into Europe.

Arafart was a real Hero. A Man who managed to make the lives of Millions get progressively worse every day of his life, could only be Idolized by losers.

A con man and extortionist on a grand scale. Lining his pockets while keeping his betrothed away from the Paradise he so professed to love. Unable to expose those who's loved ones he made to suffer from the opulence he bestowed upon his own.

Alas, he passed away with a mighty legacy to follow. A direction that others would have to rise above to make their own mark. Indeed, there are some who learned well. Very well in fact. For we see the results of all their fine work progressing at a remarkable rate. Surprising how quickly the Cream of his Students surpassed the Teacher.

Is it possible to contemplate the possibility that Palestine is actually trying to emulate the Jews of Masada? The difference being the method and the times.

"As for Saudi Arabia, you paint it as if one side is more dependent on the other. You need Saudi Arabia on your side just as much as Saudi Arabia needs you. If thats wasn't the case then Saudi Arabia would have been under US occupation well before Iraq was."

Posted by: thesaracen

You really want to know why? Read this statement:

"I summon my blue-eyed slaves anytime it pleases me. I command the Americans to send me their bravest soldiers to die for me. Anytime I clap my hands a stupid genie called the American ambassador appears to do my bidding. When the Americans die in my service their bodies are frozen in metal boxes by the US Embassy and American airplanes carry them away, as if they never existed. Truly, America is my favorite slave."

King Fahd Bin Abdul-Aziz, Jeddeh 1993

The simple fact is that the U.S. Politicians have sold the U.S. Citizens out. They have been at it for a LONG time.

The U.S. occupying Saudi Arabia? Not! Try, they are occupying us. We have to bow to their slimy Shaira Slavery Laws because of the scum in the State Department and the Egotistical Environmentalist in congress. No... Our "leaders" are TRAITORS.

The most humanitarian thing to do for the Gazans would be to de-program their leaders. We need to immediately kidnap key members of Hamas and sequester them in a secret location (the Cambodian jungle, Hollywood?) where professional psychological counselors familiar with cult brainwashing (Ali Sina and crew would be good) can treat them intensively and ultimately return them to the human race. Now, if that doesn't work, we could always administer lead therapy.

What are you talking about Muslims have done nothing whatsoever to damage the West. I mean you mention the left and you mention Islam, are you implying they are working together? The West has caused it's own problems and it has nothing to do with Muslims. It's not the fault of Muslims that you attacked Iraq was it? By that one action the west has destabilised itself, the middle east and the rest of the world. Blame yourselves for supporting it in the first place.

I will not accept this deliberate targeting of Muslims as the chief perpetrator of the current problems in the West. They say Britain has been forced to become PC because of Muslims. I don't buy that at all. Your own ideology is to blame and if the left have infiltrated your governments then blame them.
The West hides behind the free speech card when insulting Muslims by drawing cartoons about the Prophet pbuh, but what was the inspiration behind doing it in the first place? I don't see the same cartoons about Guru Nanak or Jesus or Buddha or Moses. Muslims wouldn't need to object to something if it wasn't directed at them. Of course they were going to get angry at the cartoons and the media got what they wanted. If the issue causes division and dissent how is that the fault of the Muslims? They aren't appealing to you and they didn't start the problem in the first place.


Sharia will inevitably become part of the law of the west but all the signs point to a peaceful and voluntary adoption because of the growing number of Muslims in the West. But this I assure is the last thing on the mind of a Muslim living in the west. The media have made it seem like thats our main agenda and it's the one thing Muslims are after. The thought of Sharia in the West popped up in my mind when the media started reporting it.

I think I've worked out why the West hates Islam so much. It has nothing to do with terrorism, but to stop the rapidly rising number of converts from even hearing a good word about Islam in the first place but its not working and is in fact having the direct opposite.

"If he was this terrorist you all claim he was why was he given such adulation by so many heads of state around the world upon his death?"

Posted by: thesaracen

Gee, many "Heads of States" lauded Stalin and Mao when they died. And today many laud Castro, Chavez, and that little man from Iran too. Using the "UN" (that dictators' good old boys' club)
as a measurement of anything is just plain insane.

"Arafat was offered proposals that were totally against the Palestinian people and said NO! Thats why they called him a terrorist, because he never gave in and become a puppet leader."

Posted by: thesaracen

Hmmm... 90% of what you are asking for, when you are only offering to end killing the other people? Most people would view that as a great mugging. Oh... that's right those Evil Jooos wouldn't do the other 10% by killing them selves off or be their Dhimmi Slaves. Those Evil Jooos, what are they thinking not living like the Coptic Christians in Egypt?

It's a conspiracy I tell you!! All Dhimmis should roll over right now, so the Mohammedan Male can feel his proper superior place. All praise be to Allmut and his lunatic harem of al-Lat, al-‘Uzza and Manat. And Piss be Upon Him the precious Pedophile False Prophet Mohamet.

the saracen:

If he was this terrorist you all claim he was why was he given such adulation by so many heads of state around the world upon his death?

It's called DIPLOMACY.

Surely they must be giving the aid back to the Palestinian people in a way thats more effective than the aid agencies would be able to.

If HAMAS is that efficient then the people of Gaza should be living high on the hog by now. Why hasn't HAMAS done more to upgrade the economic prospects of those who put it in power?

If so many of you object to US ties with Saudi Arabia then why doesn't your president sever them?

It's called DIPLOMACY. We object to US support of Saudi Arabia. We are capable of having diplomatic relations with our worst enemy. Does the Soviet Union ring a bell?

Without Saudi Arabia on your side, you would be paying a hell of a lot more for petrol than you do now. Your economy would be in turmoil simply put.

You think Saudi Arabia is on OUR side? With friends like the Saudis, we don't need any enemies. We buy next to none of our oil from them. We get most of it from our neighbors, Canada and Mexico. When our economy is in turmoil, you'll know it.

Arafat was a man who stood up for the Palestinian people. He stood up for justice in the same way Ghandi and Mandela did. They were both labeled terrorists, did you know that?

A lot of good it did. Where are the Palestinians now? Why did Arafat and his wife steal hundreds of millions of dollars in aid? She lives in comfort in France. What about "her" people? With friends like Arafat, the Palestinian people need no enemies. BTW, Arafat was an EGYPTIAN. His response to peace deals was to blow up synagogues, restaurants, bus stops, etc. THAT was what made him a terrorist.

I will not accept this deliberate targeting of Muslims as the chief perpetrator of the current problems in the West.

When did Pakistan become part of the West? Afghanistan? Lebanon? Iran? India? Indonesia? Muslims are the chief perpetrators of the current problems in all of these countries, and many more. When will you all learn to play nice? People are allowed to have beliefs that don't conform with yours. That is not what Islam teaches.

Since Thesaracen can't stay on topic, and must, like all good Muslims (or trolls), use this forum to propagate hate and dissent, I will point out the remaining paragraphs of the article.

Jordan sends aid to the Ramallah-based Palestinian Red Crescent for distribution to needy Gazans and officials privately say Hamas has been angry with the Palestinian aid group it accuses of ties with Fatah and lack of impartiality.

Amman has in recent years established an aid corridor to Gaza and the West Bank in coordination with Israel.

Israel occupied the Gaza Strip in 1967 and pulled troops and settlers out in 2005 but still controls its northern and eastern borders, airspace and coastal waters.

Jordan, which has seen an outpouring of popular sympathy with the plight of Gazans, has been alarmed by Israel's blockade of the impoverished area which it fears broadens the popularity of Hamas among a majority of poor Jordanians.

Fine. We've established that Hamas confiscated the convoy. Will they, now, in good faith and in the spirit of Muslim brotherhood, distribute the aid to those in most need? Or will they squander it and distribute to those "good" Gazans that toe the party line? Probably not.

I would venture that Hamas will simply make the shipment 'disappear' in order to perpetuate (accelerate) the hate in Arab world against Israel.

The last paragraph in the article speaks volumes in and of itself.

"...must either admire or hate me"

Um. Neither!

Champ,

Howdy! After I read his first post, I immediately ran down into the basement and initiated a discussion with a concrete wall.

Boy, couldn't have had a more fascinating and enlightening discussion about this 'death cult' called Christianity and those evil prophets Abraham, Moses, and Jesus.

End /sarcasm HTML tag

Since Thesaracen can't stay on topic, and must, like all good Muslims (or trolls), use this forum to propagate hate and dissent.

So remind me, why are you commenting on this website again? Isn't it to propagate hate and dissent towards Muslims because you sure as hell ain't doing anything else.

I've stayed on topic actually read my first post again. It's not my fault people started talking about Saudi Arabia and Yasser Arafat is it now?

I've worked you out boneshack. You're a man with limited knowledge. You've never come up with questions of your own but you'd much rather hitch a ride on other people's points. Then when my attention turns to you, you say 'it's not me who asked you the question, he's the guy you're after.'

Everyone is the same on here, when they realise I may have a point they quickly change the subject. So there's your answer boneshack, it's not my fault mate.

As for this article I don't know why I commented as I don't know what Hamas do. It was just an oppinion based on a rational judgement. Why would they confiscate aid but at the same time blow up a barrier to allow Palestinians to stock up on vital supplies of food and water?
If they are giving the aid primarily to Hamas supporters then that's wrong and I totally disagree with that.

That's where we differ. I can look at a situation and I don't care who they are, if what they are doing is not Islamic, I won't support it. But to you it doesn't matter if they were from the moon, a Muslim is a Muslim.

champ come on be honest.... all those heart-felt messages haven't gone unnoticed.

boneshack and champ two of my biggest supporters, although we don't always see eye to eye, man I love you guys.

Hey, Boneshack! Hope you're OK? Concrete walls can be very unforgiving. LOL!

I know, thes comes up with the nuttiest stuff; and I'm still recooperating from him stating that I "ADMIRE" him. Gave me an eerie 'ew' moment. This is why I keep a bottle of Tums near my computer.

Yeah, those cultish Christians are everywhere - make sure to lock your doors at night! :-)

boneshack you're acting very strange, what's the matter mate? Have I touched a nerve by any chance?

I think anyone who has an IQ above that of an amoeba can understand that the continuing jihad against Israel has brought great misery to everyone involved. When people do something self-destructive like that, one must question their sanity. Only religion, in this case, some weird cult, could induce such irrational behavior.
But this insanity is very predictable: the jihad was inevitable after Israel's disengagement. I'm sure that most JW'ers knew what we happen, but then, we're jihad afficionados. Still, a lot of allegedly "smart" people were optimistic back then. Condi Rice recently praised Israel for the disengagement, as though it's all just been great.

"But this insanity is very predictable: the jihad was inevitable after Israel's disengagement. I'm sure that most JW'ers knew what we happen, but then, we're jihad afficionados. Still, a lot of allegedly "smart" people were optimistic back then. Condi Rice recently praised Israel for the disengagement, as though it's all just been great."

jewdog,

Condi's (and GWB's) optimism about Gaza can be summed up in four words: the audacity of hope.

So the government of Gaza seized the aid supplies ? ??
That is whatr governments do

"champ come on be honest.... all those heart-felt messages haven't gone unnoticed."

Well, what can I say, I'm a sucker for your sugar-coated contempt and your sweet-talkin' criticism, turns my stomach just thinking about it. Boy, I'm one lucky doormat.

Oh my, here comes my fun. >: )

Thesaracen said, “What are you talking about, Muslims have done nothing whatsoever to damage the West.”

What no 9/11, 7/7, no oil embargoes? No Barbary Pirates, no sacking of the Byzantine cities to create the Ottoman Empire and Istanbul (A.K.A the Ummah)? No invasion of Southern France and the Iberian Peninsula? (Only stopped by the battle of Tours) No slaughter of the Jews and Assyrian Christians? The list of offenses of the Mohammedan Maniacs is FAR too long to list here. (Oh and don’t even both trying to bring up the Crusades here, everyone knows it was a defensive action that lasted less then 100 years after HUNDREDS OF YEARS of Mohammedan Maniac Aggression).

Thesaracen said, “I mean you mention the left and you mention Islam, are you implying they are working together?”

The communists have wanted to take down the Capitalist system of the West since they grew like a cancerous cell in the body of Western Civilization. (Most of their plots were spawn in the Frankfurt School). And the Mohammedan Marauders have sought to slaughter or enslave us ever since their ideology was spawn in a dark demonic cave some where by Mecca. Actively working together? No… but it is a PERFECT STORM of Atheist Communist and Satanic Slime. Each is using the other to douse the light of any civilization from the earth.

Thesaracen said, “ The West has caused it's own problems and it has nothing to do with Muslims.”

You’re right, end the importation of barbarity in the name of the Cult of Multiculturalism. We don’t need Mohammedans, just oil, and we don’t even need Mohammedan oil. We have our own we should be using till we develop new energy methods.

Thesaracen said, “It's not the fault of Muslims that you attacked Iraq was it?”

Actually, it is. You see Saudi Arabia and Kuwait loaned lots of money to Iraq for the Iraq-Iran war. They demanded that Saddam pay up and fast. Saddam couldn’t and felt betrayed by he’s fellow Sunni’s who had been using him as a bulwark against the Shiite in Iran. So, he used what his major resource was, he had to “settle up” his army. He took the oil wells of Kuwait and threatened Saudi Arabia. The House of Saud turned to their political puppets they had bought in the west. The massive coalition rolled in during Desert Storm. And guess what as soon as Saddam broke the terms of the peace treaty, the entire coalition was back at war. That is what breaking a peace treaty means.

"I summon my blue-eyed slaves anytime it pleases me. I command the Americans to send me their bravest soldiers to die for me. Anytime I clap my hands a stupid genie called the American ambassador appears to do my bidding. When the Americans die in my service their bodies are frozen in metal boxes by the US Embassy and American airplanes carry them away, as if they never existed. Truly, America is my favorite slave."
King Fahd Bin Abdul-Aziz, Jeddeh 1993

The Najis Kafur were in “Sacred” Saudi Arabia to prevent Saddam from a repeat try. So the Mohammedan Monsters begin making lots of noises about the last injunctions of Mohamet about only being Islam in Arabia. That’s right Osama Bin Laden even used that as one of his many excuses to attack. (Mohammedan are really good at claiming victimhood to justify their war crimes).

Thesaracen said, “By that one action the west has destabilised itself, the middle east and the rest of the world. Blame yourselves for supporting it in the first place.”

When has the Middle East ever been stable? Heck, when have the inhabitants of the Middle East been stable? But, you’re right about one thing. That supporting “Marshall Plans” or Kerry’s “Pottery Barn Rule” is just insane. SCORCHED EARTH, That is what the policy should be from now on.

To paraphrase Nicolo Machiavelli (1469-1527) in The Prince, 1513, “It is better to be fear then loved by one’s enemies.”

Thesaracen said, “I will not accept this deliberate targeting of Muslims as the chief perpetrator of the current problems in the West.”

LOL won’t accept it? Roflma, first off, We have this tiny annoying this called FREE SPEECH it’s not called FREEDOM FROM CRITICISM. The criticism is aimed at all this crap of honor killings, hypocrisy, and demands that Sharia Laws are in forced along with us being made Dhimmis in our own house and you demanding Jizya for the “Oh, so glorious privilege of kissing and shining your behinds.” If you don’t like it I have one thing to say, “What ever “dude” tuck it up your slip is showing, and welcome to the Big Dogs run, ya don’t like you and your religion can stay in the puppy pound.”

Thesaracen said, “They say Britain has been forced to become PC because of Muslims. I don't buy that at all. Your own ideology is to blame and if the left have infiltrated your governments then blame them.”

You’re right, the Mohammedan didn’t force Britain, the U.S., or any of the Western Civilization to adopt Political Crap, this was one of the ploys of the Frankfurt school to silence all their critics of their ideas. The Mohammedan have only use it as a camel’s nose under the tent and have found it overly convenient at that.

Thesaracen said, “The West hides behind the free speech card when insulting Muslims by drawing cartoons about the Prophet pbuh, but what was the inspiration behind doing it in the first place?”

Hides behind the free speech “card”, hardly! I stand by FREE SPEECH! It is my birthright, paid for with the blood of my forefathers. Not only will I not surrender a single word, letter, or punctuation to you or the fifth columnist communist you’ve aligned yourself with. I will fight you tooth and nail for I would rather see this planet a charred cinder ball in space then see my child your Dhimmi slaves.

As for the inspiration to do so it’s self, the publisher themselves have said the reasoning behind it. And they were right.

Thesaracen said, “I don't see the same cartoons about Guru Nanak or Jesus or Buddha or Moses. Muslims wouldn't need to object to something if it wasn't directed at them.”

Err… news flash… ever hear about Piss Christ, the Christian object, NOT RIOTED LIKE INSANE CHIMPS!!! The Mohammedan should give it a try, they’d get more respect.

Thesaracen said, “Of course they were going to get angry at the cartoons and the media got what they wanted. If the issue causes division and dissent how is that the fault of the Muslims?”

No division or dissent in the West, only a few cowards cravenly caving before the INSANE RIOTING CHIMPS. And yes, rioting like chimps is the Mohammedan’s fault, THEY ARE RESPONSIBLE FOR THEIR OWN ACTIONS AND REACTIONS!

Thesaracen said, “ They aren't appealing to you and they didn't start the problem in the first place.”

Burn embassies and slaughtering people is a strange way to appeal to any one… hmmm… perhaps we should say trying to intimidate instead. And yes they did start it with their whole attitude that we must act like Dhimmis, especially in our own countries. They did this as Barbary Pirates too.

Thesaracen said, “Sharia will inevitably become part of the law of the west but all the signs point to a peaceful and voluntary adoption because of the growing number of Muslims in the West.”

The Mohammedan protest in the street don’t look peaceful. Next the “growing” problem of more Mohammedan in our countries can be rectified with deportations and extreme immigration controls. (like ending all imports of Mohammedan)
Thesaracen said, “But this I assure is the last thing on the mind of a Muslim living in the west. The media have made it seem like thats our main agenda and it's the one thing Muslims are after. The thought of Sharia in the West popped up in my mind when the media started reporting it.”

It’s not the main agenda? Perhaps you should review the Koran and Hadiths it’s one of the main tenants and to be spread by the sword if necessary. Last thing on the Mohammedan minds? Oh boy… the Taqqiya is thick here.

Thesaracen said, “I think I've worked out why the West hates Islam so much. It has nothing to do with terrorism, but to stop the rapidly rising number of converts from even hearing a good word about Islam in the first place but its not working and is in fact having the direct opposite.”

Yup, the Taqqiya is real thick. Tell oh grand Mohammedan… if Mohammedism is so great, why do you have to kill the apostates? Heck, why are there apostates in this “growing” religion? And why do Egyptian courts use Sharia Law to prevent them from leaving this oh so magnificent malignant fascist ideology? And why do Mohammedan have to kidnap people and threaten to kill them unless they convert?

Good grief, you’re Taqqiya is thick. At least “Commissar Progressive the Regressive” tried to be subtle., but better luck next time, you’ll improve. ROFLMA

Thesaracen,

boneshack you're acting very strange, what's the matter mate? Have I touched a nerve by any chance?

Thanks for your concern. But, no, you haven't touched any nerve. And I'm flattered that you hold me and Champ is such high regard.

In my profession, you have to have really thick skin. So, no I'm quite fine.

BTW, in just about one hour, I will again bang my head against that same concrete wall, say a few blessings, then return upstairs and tune my TV to the Great Antenna Mast of WNDY and enjoy another superb episode of Star Trek.

Anyhoo, I've asked you this before, so why don't you answer me with a straight answer:

There's lot' and lot's of stories being brought forward here at JW/DW. Why do you only pick one to comment on?

"boneshack and champ two of my biggest supporters, although we don't always see eye to eye, man I love you guys"....thanks, thes!

"We are surprised it should be confiscated and distributed in a manner based on political considerations...this only penalises those who really deserve this aid," Joudeh said.
.........................

To paraphrase Claude Rains' character Captain Renault in Casablanca, I am shocked, shocked to hear of such behavior!

Remember the moronic claim, after Hamas' election, that they would somehow forget all about terrorism and corruption now that they were in power, and get down to the peaceful business of "fixing potholes"?

Well, now that they have brutally driven out their Fatah rivals and punched a significant hole in the border fence with neighboring Egypt, it seems they are getting down to the usual business of Palestinian government--lobbing missiles at Israel and stealing humanitarian aid.

No surprises there, not really. Business as usual under Yasser Arafat.

BTW, good post, Senor Doeboy.

Are you illiterate or maybe you're just dumb because there is no such thing as a Mohammedan.

Here we go you want to give me a history lesson do you? Mate, I've heard these same things over and over and I've answered them over and over.
You use this word dhimmi like it's a bad thing. Dhimmi means 'protected by a Muslim land', are you?
You know the rest of the civilised (including arab countries as much as you hate that) would describe you as a racist, facist, Islamophobic, bigot. I really do feel sorry for your children who have to listen to your fantasies everyday. Let me tell you something, I live in the west, I contribute to this society, come and deport me if you can.

You hide behind this website and speak like you're a foot soldier who has just come home from a day battling the enemy. You're nothing but a coward, a snake, who trembles at the thought of having to speak publicly but at home your a brave warrior.

I would hate to be associated with you in anyway, it's the worst accolade to be friends with a coward and a hypocryt. You've painted yourself as if you're some tough guy. I'm probably much younger than you but I would lay you out flat, such is how weak you seem to me. Don't open your mouth again. Better still go outside and talk like this. Let's see how tough you are. It's your home turf ain't at, big dogs run the show right? Go ahead and preach what you've just written. You won't just be ridiculed by Muslims but by your own people as well so better to just keep your mouth shut ain't it?

"The West hides behind the free speech card when insulting Muslims by drawing cartoons about the Prophet pbuh, but what was the inspiration behind doing it in the first place? I don't see the same cartoons about Guru Nanak or Jesus or Buddha or Moses. Muslims wouldn't need to object to something if it wasn't directed at them."

Posted by: thesaracen

Here you go:

http://www.buzzflash.com/contributors/03/09/17_franken.html

http://politicalhumor.about.com/library/images/blbushvsjesus.htm

http://politicalhumor.about.com/library/images/blbushvsjesus.htm

http://commentator.dreamhosters.com/Insurgent_17.4.pdf Pages 11, 17,18

This last one is a pdf, and on my clunker of a computer, took a while to load.

Just out of curiosity, why didn't you add the PBUH to the names of Moses and Jesus? Weren't they recognized in the Qur'an as prophets?

bonehack it's not possible for me to comment on everything so I'd rather comment on something that at least I have basic knowledge on and I may be able to contribute and offer something different to the article in question.

I've also commented on the Israeli article regarding them offering Palestinians a choice between attacking them and electricity.

You know full-well I'm a one man show but I'll answer any question thats posed to me thats practical, not some waffle like senor doeboy just posted or the 14 page essay that exgstbrown posted the other day which really frustrated me. I had the answers just didn't see the point in replying with 14 pages of answers.
So what is it going to be; do you want answers and therefore knowledge on Islam or do you want a pointless argument about which society is better?

Thesaracen,

Sorry, I missed your comment there. So, to be fair to you, I will look for it.

Time for Star Trek. Good night.

Abscedere- Yes they were recognised as Prophets Abscedere and I only forgot to write 'pbuh' after their names, thanks for highlighting it. As for the pictures your comparing two distinct cultures. You can't expect a people who are secular to be in uproar about Jesus pbuh cartoons. I mean when was the last time you went to church on a Sunday? or even thought about going to church.

For a Muslim it's wrong that any prophet of God be depicted in this way even if its out of humor. But the thing that you have to remember is that the cartoons about Prophet Muhammed pbuh had much more media exposure than these cartoons about Jesus pbuh ever did. Furthermore in Christianity there is no issue regarding pictures of Jesus Christ but in Islam it's something we are not allowed to do. To do it in the insulting manner it was done to Prophet Muhammed pbuh then I don't blame those people who rioted.

To all new (non-Muslim) readers at this site:

do not be surprised, at all, by the confusion and revulsion which you may initially feel if you read any posts by the 'saracen'. It is a normal response when a rational and decent human being encounters a mass of Big Lies of the kind once made famous by Herr Goebbels.

Muslims like 'saracen', using exactly the same sophisms, the same arrogance, the same boggart-like shapeshifting, and the same dementor-style 'Tokyo Rose' claims of imminent and inevitable Total Muslim World Domination, along with a penchant for hurling ugly ad hominem insults at anyone who dares to contradict them, and a total disregard for objective truth, have popped up here at jihadwatch every now and again throughout the four years that it has been operating. I should add that, one and all, they are full of the most vicious antisemitism. They HATE Jews. Not just Israel. Jews. (Such hatred is driven by key texts in the Quran, the Hadith, and the Life of Mohammed).

Muslims like 'saracen' function as an exhibition of what Islam, swallowed whole and undiluted, can do to a person's capacity to reason and their ability to relate to other human beings.

New readers: I recommend that you obtain a copy of M Scott Peck's "People of the Lie" and read it, especially chapters 2 and 3. You will then understand exactly what is happening whenever 'saracen' opens his mouth.

Furthermore, new reader, or visitor, you must bear in mind two things. First (and this is critically important, once you 'get' this you will understand everything else) - Islam DOES NOT teach the Golden Rule, or Law of General Beneficence, 'Do as you would be done by', or 'Do not do to others what you would not want done to yourself'.
Instead, Quran 48:29 says: "Muhammad is the messenger of Allah; and those who are with him are strong against Unbelievers, (but) compassionate amongst each other.” Some translators render the word here given as 'strong', by words like 'ruthless' or 'harsh'.
Since 'allah' 'hates' the unbelievers, Muslims also are encouraged to hate them. The Quran repeatedly warns Muslims not to make friends or form alliances with Jews, or Christians, or any other non-Muslims (except feigningly, as necessitated by circumstance).

In Ibn Ishaq's Life of Mohammed, we find the following statement:
Ibn Ishaq: 231 - “Muslims are one ummah (community) to the exclusion of all men. Believers are friends of one another to the exclusion of all outsiders.”

The Bukhari Hadith represents Mohammed as teaching that the life of an Infidel was worth less than the life of a Muslim:
Bukhari?Volume 4, Book 52, Number 283: ?Narrated Abu Juhaifa:
I asked Ali, "Do you have the knowledge of any Divine Inspiration besides what is in Allah's Book?" 'Ali replied, "No, by Him Who splits the grain of corn and creates the soul. I don't think we have such knowledge, but we have the ability of understanding which Allah may endow a person with, so that he may understand the Qur'an, and we have what is written in this paper as well."
I asked, "What is written in this paper?"
He replied, "(The regulations of) blood-money, the freeing of captives, AND THE JUDGMENT THAT NO MUSLIM SHOULD BE KILLED FOR KILLING AN INFIDEL."

Secondly, Islam teaches that "war is deceit"; lying is permissible in time of war. Since Islam is supposed to be at war with all who refuse to submit (people like us), Muslims like 'saracen' have the permission of their religion to lie to us, so as to advance the cause of Islam.

A historical note: 'saracen' seems to think that being a 'dhimmi', a non-Muslim within a majority-Muslim society, allegedly 'protected' by Muslims, was a good thing. It was not. It was hell on earth. NO sane person here, once informed of the abominable treatment, the contempt and institutionalised injustice, to which dhimmis were subjected, from Spain to India, would EVER choose to be a dhimmi rather than a free citizen of a modern secular Western state. (See Bat Yeor, "The Dhimmi: Jews and Christians Under Islam"; see also Andrew Bostom, 'Legacy of Jihad', and K S Lal on the Muslim slave system in India).

To understand the meaning of the so-called 'protection' condescendingly granted to the dhimmi, all you have to do is think of the Mafioso meaning of the term 'protection'. Dhimmis were 'protected' just like a small italian shopkeeper in Al Capone's Chicago.

So long as dhimmis put up, shut up (no complaining allowed!) and most important of all, PAID UP (handed over large, and often extortionate, sums of money to their sneering, strutting, bullying Muslim overlords), they were...mostly...grudgingly 'allowed' to stay alive. But mass killings, rapes, robberies, kidnappings for ransom, and lynchings of dhimmis, and forcible removal of their children to be turned into Mohammedans, were very frequent throughout the history of Islam.

Finally, here is something from the letters of a 16th/ 17th century Muslim:

"The honour of Islam lies in insulting kufr and kafirs.
One who respects the kafirs dishonours the Muslims.
The real purpose of levying jiziya on them [jizya = the 'protection' money extorted from dhimmis on pain of death if they failed to pay] is to humiliate them to such an extent that they may not be able to dress well and to live in grandeur.
They should constantly remain terrified and trembling.
It is intended to hold them under contempt and to uphold the honour and might of Islam".
Sufi 'saint' Ahmad Sirhindi (1564-1624), letter #163.

Q. E. D.

thesaracen...You are no different than numerous trolls who come here not to learn anything, but to impart their superior knowledge and attitude. Who cares what you think dude? You are not going to convince anyone here that your 'thick taqiyya', as it was called, has one squirt of value. And even if you did hurrah hurrah, the world wont change because of it. Now you want to brag on how tough you are...
Your not doing to well intellectually, so now it's time to get tough. Keep it up, put those kaffurs in their place, I am enjoying the show. It's fun reading...

Don't worry, Hamas will make sure the people get everything they have coming to them...

Oh boy some more fun. > : )

Thesaracen said, “Are you illiterate or maybe you're just dumb because there is no such thing as a Mohammedan.”

No such thing as a Mohammedan? Well, is that interesting, Mohammedan is an English word. Go ahead and use your Microsoft Word “spell checker” (you might just try using it once in a while) and you will find it in there. Or you might just use an online dictionary if you want. Just like the English word Christian connotes a follower of Christ. The English word Mohammedan connotes a follower of Mohamet (and yes I know that some people use the word Mohammed but Mohamet is the interchangeable English word I choose to use.)

And yes I know you Mohammedan dislike the term Mohammedan., because you claim it infers they worship Mohamet. (Given the riots perhaps it’s not far from the truth) I also know they prefer “Muslim” but that is an Arabic word with meanings I DO NOT prescribe to and since words have meaning I will not concede to this concept by default.

Thesaracen said, “Here we go you want to give me a history lesson do you? Mate, I've heard these same things over and over and I've answered them over and over.”

Well interesting statement, you acknowledge that I’m historically correct, but…. You only claim to have answer these things before and infer that some how I’m wrong without even doing more then stating you’ve “answered them over and over”. Nice… misdirection, that’s Taqqiya tactic number 6, 7, or 8… I don’t really care which number, it’s just a Taqqiya tactic.

Thesaracen said, “You use this word dhimmi like it's a bad thing. Dhimmi means 'protected by a Muslim land', are you?”

Hmmm… Dhimmi are people who have accepted second class citizenship in their own homes because they’d rather give up then continue fending off the Mohammedan. The only one the Dhimmi is protected from is the Mohammedan seeking to KILL, SUBJUGATE, OR CONVERT them. And even then they really aren’t protected from their Mohammedan Masters, just look at the abuses of minorities in any Mohammedan lands. (Heck the Saudis even abuse their fellow Mohammedan that aren’t Arabs, nice some good old Arab supremacy there). Don’t try that Taqqiya with me, we’ve had the communist declaring “Freedom is Slavery” (Orwell’s 1984) for decades now.

Thesaracen said, “You know the rest of the civilised (including arab countries as much as you hate that) would describe you as a racist, facist, Islamophobic, bigot. I really do feel sorry for your children who have to listen to your fantasies everyday. Let me tell you something, I live in the west, I contribute to this society, come and deport me if you can.”

The rest of the Civilized world would say I’m a Racist? Since when is Mohammedism a race? I never said I had anything against Arab Christian.

I’m a Fascist? Fascism is a Socialist Philosophy where the states needs and desires out strip those of the individual citizen. (Sounds a lot like the ideology that Mohammedan follow to me). And it’s not Fascism for the Citizens of a Country to expect guest to behave properly and their fellow citizen not to commit treason (last I looked that was still considered a High Crime in the U.S. constitution to seek to over through the U.S. government for Sharia Law).

“Islamophobic” oh my… now who’s using the trendy made up word…LOL. Okay lets look at the word. (I swear Mr. Spencer has don this one before, why do I have to…. LOL) Mohammedism is a religion, a phobia is an irrational fear of something… I’ll just let our audience dwell on that one.

“Bigoty” is defined as :”stubborn and complete intolerance of any creed, belief, or opinion that differs from one's own.” Well I’d have to accuse the Mohammedan beliefs of this. I don’t seek to kill my Hindu neighbor (in fact I happen to like the fellow) I don’t seek to force the Baptist to either die, submit and pay extortion money or convert. I just have a wee bit ’o problem with the Mohammedan creed that declares I must either die, submit and pay the Jizya, or convert. Now who here ascribes to a system of bigoted beliefs?

As for your “contribution” to “this society” (the fact you didn’t claim it as your own is extremely telling) I don’t believe it counters the “deconstruction” you do to bring about Sharia Law. In fact any activities to impose Sharia Law on the Citizens of the U.S. is a High Crime of waging war against them.

My children are my own, and you reference to them in this way is only an ad homien attack, and a vile show of desperation.
Deporting you (if a none citizen) will be the job of the U.S. government, WE are still a nation of laws, not Tribal actions.

Thesaracen said, “You hide behind this website and speak like you're a foot soldier who has just come home from a day battling the enemy. You're nothing but a coward, a snake, who trembles at the thought of having to speak publicly but at home your a brave warrior.”

Guess what this is one of the front lines in the war with Islamofasism. Information is power controlling the content of the flow of information is one of the propaganda tactics of CAIR, HAMAS, and all the other Jihadist. As for hiding behind a web site, don’t think so.

Snake, coward,… forgot son of apes and pigs… oooh… oh… don’t forget Najis Kafur. Let’s see.. I think that this is the stage in Mohammedan debate tactics, that they realize they have lost and begin making threats.

Thesaracen said, “I would hate to be associated with you in anyway, it's the worst accolade to be friends with a coward and a hypocryt. You've painted yourself as if you're some tough guy. I'm probably much younger than you but I would lay you out flat, such is how weak you seem to me. Don't open your mouth again. Better still go outside and talk like this. Let's see how tough you are. It's your home turf ain't at, big dogs run the show right? Go ahead and preach what you've just written. You won't just be ridiculed by Muslims but by your own people as well so better to just keep your mouth shut ain't it?”

Oh yes… The warnings to keep silent… The threats of violence… The beginnings of slander against the character and masculinity of your debate adversary. Ah.. the sweet taste of Victory… you Mohammedan are just too easy.

This is a time-honored 'feature' of aid distribution: The strong get stronger and the weak starve.

That's the way the game works.

The saracen says nothing. Ignore him.

"You've painted yourself as if you're some tough guy. I'm probably much younger than you but I would lay you out flat, such is how weak you seem to me. Don't open your mouth again. Better still go outside and talk like this. Let's see how tough you are".

Posted by: thesaracen [TypeKey Profile Page] at February 9, 2008 10:08 PM

Now, if we're going to follow on with the 'Achmed the dead terrorist' diatribe we really should add the most important bit where we say " Silence,I kill you!"
(Preferably in a high pitched squeaky voice)

Is this the mentality of the Islamist we have come to expect? Oh deary me. When we reach the limits of our verbosity then it's time for threats and violence? LOL!

(For those not aware of Achmed the dead terrorist, I would implore you to Google for him....RIGHT NOW!)

All this talk about violence and threats and terrorism and victory. Where are you getting all this?

Senor Doeboy posted a message attacking Muslims. He called them Muhammedans, he called them chimps he did not show respect to the religion but showed instead he's hatred. Therefore he's a cockroach to me and I got no respect for him. That's a personal issue, and has nothing to do with terrorism. But like I said senor gayboy, why not go public with your views? And im not going to reply at this time but give me a couple of hours since I have a life unlike you and I'll be happy to make you look stupid.

And dumbledoramry give me a few hours I'll return to answer your new claims.

...just a few words about Arafat....

The Father of Modern Terrorism
The true legacy of Yasser Arafat.

For the last week of his life, the scuttlebutt about the Palestinian movement's centrifugal force concerned whether his impending demise was driven by AIDS, likely contracted, according to leaked foreign-intelligence reports, by his omnivorous, orgiastic sexual appetite. This as if, after three quarters of a century's worth of megalo-sadism, additional indicia of Yasser Arafat's throbbing depravity were somehow necessary. And so, evidently, they were. Thus is reflection on his life, a signal emblem of the late 20th century's triumph of terror and fraud over security and reason, as instructive about our times as it is about him.

A Thug's Life
About him, while there is much to say, there is little to glean. He was a thug. One of the most cunning of all time for sure, but quite simply a ruthless, thoroughly corrupt, will-to-power thug.

As is often the case in the modern information age, just about everything in his life is known and almost nothing in his proffered legend is true. The man airbrushed in Thursday-morning encomiums from Kofi Annan and Jacques Chirac (among others) as the courageous symbol of Palestinian nationalism was not really named Yasser Arafat, was not a native Palestinian, and tended to sit out warfare with Israel whenever conventional fighting was involved.

Although he occasionally claimed to have hailed from what are now the Palestinian territories, Muhammad Abdel Rahman Abdel Rauf al-Qudwa al-Husseini was actually born in Egypt in 1929, the fifth child of a well-to-do merchant. He was educated in Cairo, although, after his mother's death when he was four, he lived at least part of the time with an uncle in Jerusalem.

Jerusalem was then the heart of the territory known as Mandatory Palestine, which chafed under British rule as a result of a 1918 League of Nations mandate. The era, to put it kindly, was not the Crown's finest hour. Sowing seeds for recriminations that persist to this day, the Brits appeared during WWI to promise some or all of the territory alternatively to Arabs and to Jews, only to exacerbate matters by keeping Palestine themselves for three decades.

Arafat's formative years were thus spent in a milieu of sectarian violence, annealed in a hatred for Jews that, far from ever subsiding, propelled him. As an engineering student in Cairo during World War II, he was powerfully influenced by Haj Amin el-Husseini, the Islamic mufti of Jerusalem who was closely aligned with Hitler and schemed from Berlin to import the Fuhrer's genocidal program to Palestine. Indeed, as the New York Sun observed in an editorial last week, one of el-Husseini's biographers relates that Arafat was a blood relative of the mufti, who preferred him to another up-and-comer, George Habash (al-Hakim), among the fiercest of Israel's Nasserite enemies who eventually founded the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine (PFLP), a frequent Arafat ally.

Nevertheless, though he may have been a local gun-runner, the 19-year-old Arafat refrained from combat in 1948, when, upon Israel's declaration of independence, it was attacked by the Arab League (Egypt, Syria, Transjordan, Lebanon, and Iraq), which was defeated in the war still regarded by Palestinians and other Arabs as "al-Nakba" (the Catastrophe). Nor did he partake in the 1956 Suez War, although, as recounted last week by the Wall Street Journal's Bret Stephens, he later claimed to have done so.

Raising Terror
While Arafat's mantel as the "Father of Palestine" is dubious given that he is singularly responsible for the failure of a Palestinian nation to emerge, his credentials as the "Father of Modern Terrorism" are solid. In the late 1950's, he co-founded Fatah, the "Movement for the National Liberation of Palestine." His métier, and thus Fatah's, was the sneak attack on soft Israeli targets, the better to maximize carnage and fear. The first efforts were ham-handed: failed attempts in 1965 to bomb the national water carrier and the railroad. But the organization soon hit its stride, successfully attacking villages and civilian infrastructure. By 1969, Arafat was the chairman of the Palestine Liberation Organization, the umbrella group he never ceased to dominate after merging Fatah into it a year earlier. The PLO had a single purpose: the destruction of Israel.

Actually, make that two purposes. The PLO was also a fabulously profitable criminal enterprise. Though Arafat purported to have made it big in the engineering business in Kuwait, British investigators, as Stephens reported, concluded after a searching probe that his wealth stemmed from sidelines his organization maintained in "extortion, payoffs, illegal arms-dealing, drug trafficking, money laundering and fraud" that yielded billions. Throughout his career, moreover, Arafat proved a master at culling funds — whether from levies on strapped Palestinian workers or gushing subsidies from starry-eyed European and American governments. From these, he skimmed millions and stashed them throughout the world — including in Israeli banks — keeping his wife on a lavish $100,000-per-month allowance in Paris while his people starved, and, of course, blamed Israel for their troubles.

By the late 1960s, the PLO had set up shop in Jordan, wreaking havoc in the kingdom. Arafat and his affiliates soon became innovators in a tactic later refined by al Qaeda: the civilian airliner as terror weapon. On February 21, 1970, the PFLP — by then also under the PLO arch — bombed SwissAir Flight 330 enroute to Tel Aviv, murdering 47 passengers and crew. Eight months later, on September 6, they attempted a spectacular atrocity: a quadruple hijack, which now appears an eerie harbinger of the tectonic bin Laden operation on another September day 31 years later.

As recalled in the riveting account of "Black September" by hostage David Raab, all the hijacked flights were bound from Europe to the United States. One, a Pan-Am 747, was taken to Cairo, where it was blown up on the tarmac just after the passengers were allowed to exit. A second, targeting an El-Al aircraft, was foiled in flight by Israeli sky marshals. But a TWA 707 and a SwissAir DC-8, with a combined 310 passengers and crew, were hijacked to a Jordanian dessert. The terrorists segregated Israeli, American, Swiss, and West German passengers for captivity — releasing the others — and threatened to kill the hostages and blow up the planes unless jailed militants were released. Under international pressure, King Hussein resolved to reassert control. War broke out on September 13. By the time it ended two weeks later, the hostages had been released, but over 2,000 people had been killed as Arafat and his terrorist band were driven out of the country.

In the first of his many rises from the ashes, Arafat relocated to Lebanon. Staging from there, the PLO embarked, almost exactly a year to the day later, on another of the late 20th century's most infamous murder sprees. On September 5, in the midst of the Munich Summer Olympic Games of 1972, eight PLO operatives (a wing of Arafat's Fatah group known as the "Black September" brigade) carried out a plan that enabled five of them to steal into the Olympic village, quickly murder two members of the Israeli team (the wrestling coach and a weightlifter), and take nine other Israeli athletes hostage. The terrorists demanded the release of 200 Arab prisoners and safe passage back to the Middle East. German authorities lured them, with their captives, to the airport, but a rescue attempt was badly botched. In the resulting battle, the Palestinians killed all nine Israeli athletes by grenade and gunfire, as well as murdering a German policeman. Five of the terrorists were killed in the struggle, but German authorities managed to capture the remaining three. True to form, Arafat's organization responded the following month by hijacking a Lufthansa jet and taking the passengers hostage. The Germans capitulated, releasing the killers.

Arafat, meanwhile, also kept Israel's support network, the U.S., in his sights. On March 1, 1973, another eight-member Black September cell raided the Saudi embassy in Khartoum, Sudan, taking as captives two American government officials, Ambassador Cleo Noel and the Charge d'Affaires George Curtis Moore, as well as a Belgian diplomat named Guy Eid. The terrorists demanded the release of Sirhan Sirhan in California (jailed for the 1968 slaying of Robert F. Kennedy), of Palestinians imprisoned in Jordan (including Black September's own Abu Daoud, who later claimed to be the master-planner of the Munich Olympics massacre), and of Palestinian women jailed in Israel. When they were rebuffed, the terrorists murdered Noel, Moore, and Eid, and then anxiously surrendered to the Sudanese authorities.

These murders, theoretically an act of war against the U.S., were never "solved" in the sense of convicting the man ultimately responsible. The FBI was reported to have reopened an investigation of them earlier this year, and at least one State Department spokesman has strangely claimed the link between Arafat and Black September was never conclusively established — even as he acknowledged Black September's membership in Arafat's own Fatah faction.

Nonetheless, a number of Israeli and American intelligence officials have long maintained that Arafat personally ordered the killings by issuing a radio message, to wit: "Why are you waiting? The people's blood in the Cold River cries for vengeance" — Cold River reportedly being a predetermined code directing the executions. Furthermore, in the kangaroo court that passed for a Sudanese prosecution, one of the terrorists, Salim Rizak, testified: "We carried out this operation on the orders of the Palestine Liberation Organization"; while another witness, the Sudanese official who conducted interrogations, reported that the killers had taken their cues from radio messages emanating from Fatah headquarters in Beirut. Thus abound dark suspicions, not to mention an explicit allegation by former NSA official James J. Welsh, that Arafat's complicity was shunted aside for what was perversely perceived as the greater good of diplomatically cultivating him. Meanwhile, of the eight surrendering Black September terrorists, two were released immediately by the Sudanese due to purportedly insufficient evidence, while the remaining six were convicted, sentenced to life-imprisonment, and...released the very next day to the open arms of the PLO.

From his Lebanese perch, Arafat's rampage of Israel continued apace. On April 11, 1974, the PLO slaughtered eighteen residents of Kiryat Shmona in their apartment building. A month later, on May 15, Palestinian terrorists attacked a school in Ma'alot, murdering 26 Israelis, including several children. Then, in June, the PLO — through the "Palestinian National Council" — endorsed what it called a "phased plan" to obliterate Israel.

Weak-Kneed Appeasement
Seven years earlier, of course, Egypt, joined by Syria and Jordan, had foolishly launched yet another war of aggression against Israel. They were routed in the Six Day War of June 1967, at the end of which Israel's territorial holdings had drastically swelled to include the West Bank and East Jerusalem (taken from Jordan), the Suez and Gaza (from Egypt), and the Golan Heights (from Syria). It was understood that this expansion would not be permanent — in accordance with U.N. Security Council Resolution 242, Israel agreed eventually to withdraw from some undetermined portion of these territories in exchange for peace treaties that settled borders and acknowledged Israel's right to exist. In Arafat's 1974 phased plan, however, the PLO reaffirmed its rejection of Resolution 242 and committed itself to establish, in any ceded territory, a Palestinian state that would work toward Israel's destruction.

Adumbrating the global strategy for dealing with terror that would reign supreme through the quarter century leading up to the 9/11 attacks, the world reacted to Arafat's contemptuous belligerence with weak-kneed appeasement. The PLO was rewarded with observer status in the U.N., and on November 13, 1974, a triumphant and utterly unrepentant Arafat, holster strapped to his hip, addressed the General Assembly in New York City. By 1980, the European Economic Community recognized him as the "sole legitimate representative" of the Palestinian people.

Not that there weren't setbacks. In 1979, Israel had struck a historic peace deal with Egypt in which it agreed to a phased pull-out from the Sinai (completed in 1982) and acknowledged that there should eventually be some form of autonomy for the Palestinian enclaves of the West Bank and Gaza. With its southern flank calmed, Israel wearied of continuing missile attacks and other sorties launched against its northern communities from the PLO's Lebanese stronghold. Israel invaded in 1982, inducing Arafat to flee to Tunis.

From Killing Klinghoffer to "Nobel" Star
The PLO's bloodlust did not abate. In 1985, a cell identifying itself as the Palestine Liberation Front, led by Mohammed Abu al-Abbas, hijacked the Italian cruise ship, Achille Lauro. As his horrified wife looked on, the terrorists viciously shot a 69-year-old, wheelchair-bound Jew named Leon Klinghoffer, then tossed him overboard to die in the sea. Despite indications that the PLF was acting on instructions from PLO headquarters in Tunis, a State Department spokesman incredibly contended as late as 2002 that the PLF had been a renegade group broken off from the PFLP, and that Arafat was probably blameless in the Achille Lauro operation. But, aside from the fact that the PLO's website (for its U.N. mission) listed the PLF as one of its constituents, Abbas had actually been a member of Arafat's own PLO Executive Committee. More to the point, when Abbas died last year in Iraq (where he had been harbored by Arafat's staunch ally, Saddam Hussein), Arafat issued an official statement lavishly praising him as a "martyr leader" and "a distinguished fighter and a national leader who devoted his life to serve his own people and his homeland."

Not long after Achille Lauro, Arafat began in 1987 to blaze the path that, by the mid-1990's, sickeningly transformed him into a regular White House guest and a Nobel Laureate. As was his Orwellian wont, he started on the road to faux respectability with a terrorist barrage that became known as the First Intifada. (With Arafat, it had to be the First Intifada because there would, of course, be a Second.)

The siege was ignited by two unconnected events in the powder keg of Gaza: the December 6 murder of an Israeli, followed quickly by the tragic December 10 death of four Palestinians in a car accident which was falsely, but unrelentingly, hyped as a revenge killing. Skirmishes quickly broke out in Gaza, and careened through the West Bank and East Jerusalem. The violence, a roller-coaster of lulls and explosions, lasted over six years. In the first four years — that is, the period before the ebb that marked the onset of the 1991 Gulf War — Israeli defense forces responded to more than 3,600 Molotov cocktail attacks, 100 hand grenade attacks, and 600 assaults with guns or explosives, all of which killed 27 and wounded over 3000. Although the PLO was rivaled in the operation by militant Islamic groups such as Hamas and Islamic Jihad, Arafat's group dominated the so-called "Unified Leadership of the Intifada," using leaflets to direct the days and targets of attacks.

Israelis were not alone among the terror casualties. Arafat unleashed PLO death squads to kill numerous Arabs who were deemed to be collaborating with the enemy. In 1990, the Arabic publication Al-Mussawar reported Arafat's defense of the tactic: "We have studied the files of those who were executed, and found that only two of the 118 who were executed were innocent." As for those putative innocents, Arafat sloughed them off as "martyrs of the Palestinian revolution."

Even as the violence hummed, Arafat assumed his statesman's face for the West, to great effect. As the body count mounted in 1988, the U.N. granted the PLO's observer mission the right to participate, though not vote, in General Assembly sessions. In addition, the administration of George H. W. Bush held open the possibility of direct dialogue if Arafat would renounce terrorism and agree to be bound by Resolution 242. This he purported to do on December 16, 1988, claiming to acknowledge "the right of all parties concerned in the Middle East conflict to exist in peace and security...including the state of Palestine and Israel and other neighbors according to the Resolutions 242 and 338"; and asserting: "As for terrorism...I repeat for the record that we totally and absolutely renounce all forms of terrorism, including individual, group and state terrorism." Like the Europeans, the U.S. officially recognized Arafat as the legitimate leader of the Palestinians.

The bankruptcy of these claims was revealed as the Intifada ensued and Arafat blundered by publicly aligning with Saddam both after the invasion of Kuwait and throughout Iraq's scud missile attacks on Israel. But just as it seemed he might finally fade away, the strongman caught a lifeline when Gulf War victory failed to carry the first President Bush to re-election. Bush's successor, President Bill Clinton, saw in the intractable Israeli/Palestinian conflict the chance for an enduring legacy, and saw in Arafat a viable "peace partner."

With Clinton as determined midwife, Arafat and the government of Prime Minister Yitzhak Rabin signed the ballyhooed Oslo Accords of 1993. The Palestinian Authority was created, Arafat was appointed its chief executive, and a plan for eventual self-government by Palestinians in the West Bank and Gaza was set in motion. But euphoria over this seeming breakthrough blurred appreciation of both Arafat's innate mendacity and Oslo's patent failure to resolve key contentious issues, including final borders, the status of East Jerusalem, and the rights of Israeli settlers and Palestinian refugees — under the delusion that Arafat would work in good faith toward a peaceful, comprehensive settlement with Israel over a five-year period.

The mega-murderer was suddenly statesman, star, and, in 1994, winner of the Nobel Peace Prize — a once-coveted honor now, by his attainment of it, reduced to a joke best listed among his countless victims. Thanks to this peace partner, it soon became clear that Oslo was a charade, a case of a credulous American president choosing his honey over his lying eyes.

The Palestinian Authority reneged on its promises of democratic reform and establishment of the rule of law — holding elections exactly once and never again after Arafat was overwhelmingly elected. Arafat also failed to honor, despite incessant pleading by Clinton administration figures, a commitment that the Palestinian National Charter would be amended to remove clauses calling for the destruction of Israel. The PA made a show of appearing to comply, disingenuously noting the provisions purportedly slated for nullification and calling for a new draft of the Charter to be produced. No revised Charter, however, was ever forthcoming. Meanwhile, what education system existed in the territories, much like Arafat's public statements in Arabic (always far more menacing than the English he spoke to the Western world), continued to instill hatred for Jews and calls for the demise of their state. Naturally, the terrorist activity also proceeded, with the PA ineffectual in halting it — when not encouraging it outright.

There should have been surprise in none of this. As Stephens reports, in 1996, Arafat brayed to an Arab audience in Stockholm, "We plan to eliminate the State of Israel and establish a purely Palestinian state. We will make life unbearable for Jews by psychological warfare and population explosion.... We Palestinians will take over everything, including all of Jerusalem." Asked about his plans on Egyptian television in 1998, Arafat explained that strategic pause was a venerable Islamic strategy, referring specifically to the "Khudaibiya agreement" in which the Prophet Mohammed made a ten-year treaty with the Arabian tribe of Koreish, but broke it after two years — during which his forces used the security of the pact to marshal their strength — and then conquered the Koreish tribe.

Such machinations were certainly no secret to the governments and media in the U.S., Europe and Israel itself. They knew precisely who Yasser Arafat was. But politically and culturally, hopeful hearts and good intentions were for them more essential than results on the ground — the "process" always took precedence over the "peace." Thus, in the Wye River Accords of 1998, the Clinton administration and Israel, now led by Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, took the terrorist at his word when he promised, yet again, to crack down on terror, this time in exchange for a pull back of Israeli forces (which had entered the territories in response to terror attacks), the ceding of additional territory to PA control, and even the release hundreds of Palestinian prisoners — many of whom had been incarcerated for terrorism offenses.

14 9/11s
The violence never stopped. Yet, with his presidency winding down in 2000 and desperate for an accomplishment that might balance a record besmirched by scandal, President Clinton boldly sought a final time to forge a comprehensive settlement. He brought Arafat and yet another new Israeli Prime Minister, Ehud Barak, to Camp David. Under intense U.S. pressure, Israel offered the creation of a Palestinian state over 90 percent of the West Bank and all of Gaza, with its capital to be in East Jerusalem. In a move comprehensible only if one accepts that Arafat was incorrigibly devoted to Israel's extermination — in which case, it was entirely comprehensible — Arafat rejected this stunning offer, with poison-pill insistence that millions of Palestinians be accorded a right of return to Israel.

The breakdown of negotiations resulted, like night followed day with Arafat, in a new round of terror: the Second Intifada, which continues to this day. This program has been pursued mostly by suicide bombings — often including explosives strapped to children encouraged by the culture of shahada, or martyrdom, which thrived under Arafat's corrupt and dysfunctional leadership. In the main, attacks have willfully targeted civilians in busses, restaurants, shopping centers, synagogues, hotels and other public centers. Since 2000, approximately 900 Israelis, three quarters of whom were civilians, have been murdered. To extrapolate to American proportions, for a country the size of Israel this is the rough equivalent of over 40,000 dead — or, as the Hudson Institute's Anne Bayefsky has calculated, about 14 9/11s.

Arafat's world, like everyone else's, radically changed on September 11, 2001. The Bush Doctrine, announcing a commitment to eradicate terrorists and terror supporting governments, did not immediately spell the end for the Palestinian strongman. He was, however, gradually marginalized and reduced to pariah status — but for the markedly less frequent, and ineffectual, paeans from Europe, the Islamic world and the U.N.

The magic began to fail even his most trusted old tricks. For example, on December 16, 2001, with American forces suppressing terrorists in Afghanistan, an ostensibly chastened Arafat appeared on PA-controlled Palestinian television to warn Hamas and Islamic Jihad against "all military activities" against Israel, and to purportedly "renew" his "call to completely halt any activities, especially suicide attacks, which we have condemned and always condemned." This time, the ploy fell flat — undercut, no doubt, after the Nobel laureate characteristically followed it up only two days later with a speech at a Ramallah rally — the kind of red meat always conveniently ignored in the halcyon pre-9/11 days. "With God's help," he boasted:

next time we will meet in Jerusalem, because we are fighting to bring victory to our prophets, every baby, every kid, every man, every woman and every old person and all the young people, we will all sacrifice ourselves for our holy places and we will strengthen our hold of them and we are willing to give 70 of our martyrs for every one of theirs in this campaign, because this is our holy land. We will continue to fight for this blessed land and I call on you to stand strong.

The jig was up. Arafat's celebrity might be a product of the "international community" but his relevance was strictly made-in-the-USA, and America was no longer buying. The administration of President George W. Bush let it be known that Arafat would no longer be dealt with. When the president eventually proposed his "roadmap" to resume negotiations toward an eventual Palestinian state, he snubbed Arafat and made unconditional cessation of all Palestinian terrorism a nonnegotiable prerequisite. Critically, the administration also eased the restraints that had for decades compelled Israel to accord its sworn enemy so wide a berth.

Now under Prime Minister Ariel Sharon, Israel responded forcefully to the terror onslaught, including through high-profile "targeted assassinations" of Hamas leaders. Its forces tightened the noose around Arafat. Unable to leave his squalid Ramallah compound with any assurance that he'd either survive or be permitted to return, the "president" of what was more a racket than a government — and decidedly not a nation — remained holed up there for over two years until his evacuation to Paris, in extremis, in late October. There he died on Wednesday, one of history's most repulsive conmen and killers.

"The power of bad men," Burke famously observed, "is no indifferent thing." The power of this evil man informed an age — the age of terrorism. The Israelis and Palestinians may never coexist peacefully, but as long as Yasser Arafat lived they didn't even have a chance.

this was written by Andrew Mccarthy,
— Andrew C. McCarthy, who led the 1995 terrorism prosecution against Sheik Omar Abdel Rahman and eleven others, is a senior fellow at the Foundation for the Defense of Democracies.

* * *

I suppose it has not escaped your notice that Arafat
was a rather ugly bum-bandit that died of Aids , I believe that says everything about this guy .

...and he stole billions of dollars from the Palestinians, putting the money in foreign bank accounts that his family still uses today....

...he really loved his people....kept them poor, kept them in war, ...but he did say "Kill the Jews"....and the Palestinians were happy...

...remember the 1972 Munich Olympics massacre?...

...The Munich massacre was orchestrated by two terrorists who answered directly to Yasser Arafat. Ali Hassan Salameh and Abu Daoud.....

exsgtbrown,
Excellent post. Thanks.

Don't expect to hear anything from thesaracen.

"And dumbledoramry give me a few hours I'll return to answer your new claims"....from thes.

Bet you can hardly wait.

"As for the pictures your comparing two distinct cultures. You can't expect a people who are secular to be in uproar about Jesus pbuh cartoons.

Actually, they are in an uproar.

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=49925

http://www.roanoke.com/news/roanoke/wb/54305

I didn't find this particular cartoon. It's probably out there somewhere, but the article describes the content.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/6960220.stm

"I mean when was the last time you went to church on a Sunday? or even thought about going to church."

The last time I went to church was not on a Sunday. It was on December 25th of 2007.

I think about going to church every Sunday. So far, I'm not doing well at following through. Yet, church attendance does not make or break anyone of any faith. I pray every day (usually brief prayers of gratitude), and I think about Jesus every day.

I'm not going to get all gooey about how I love Jesus (I do, but that's not really appropriate for this blog). I think about Jesus, because he interests me, and the points of view held by others about Jesus interest me. Human, divine, or both, he's undeniably fascinating.

Jesus might or might not make the comics as often as Mohammed, but he certainly makes the movies! I've enjoyed them all, from Jesus Christ Superstar, to The Last Temptation of Christ, to The Passion of the Christ.

There have been howlings galore over most of these films. The Last Temptation was shredded in the op-ed sections of newspapers, in news interviews, from pulpits, and even on bumper stickers!

You see, the outrage over The Last Temptation was no less than that over the Mohammed cartoons. It was in the news for months. It was in the news before the movie even got to the theaters.

In America, everyone had his or her say about the subject. There were organized protests, but these never degenerated into riots. I sincerely believe that the peace was kept, exactly because of "the free speech card". Anyone who had anything to say about the film, in praise or condemnation, was free to say it, and many did.

If the Mohammed cartoons garnered more attention from the media than did the Jesus cartoons, it was because people were being murdered over them!

I know we will disagree on this point, but in my opinion, no deserves to have his home trashed, his car burned, his person attacked, or to die because he or someone else drew a picture.

Yes they were recognised as Prophets Abscedere and I only forgot to write 'pbuh' after their names, thanks for highlighting it. ~ posted by: thesaracen

Nothing more than Mohammadanism lip-service, the biblical prophets messages are completely the opposite from the one Islamic prophet ( who never prophesied ).

But who are you going to believe, me or your lying eyes?

"I'm probably much younger than you but I would lay you out flat, such is how weak you seem to me. Don't open your mouth again"

OK,so I assume the troll who wrote this direct threat has been banned.If not,why?

One thing is for sure and can't be changed

arafat is dead!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Thesaracen said, ”All this talk about violence and threats and terrorism and victory. Where are you getting all this?”

“All this talk” of violence and victory? Where am I getting it? From you of coarse, let us see what is the tone of conversation you have set for us.

Thesaracen said, “ I'm probably much younger than you but I would lay you out flat, such is how weak you seem to me. Don't open your mouth again.”
Thesaracen said, “Sharia will inevitably become part of the law of the west …”

Seem you’re the one that has thrown threats and claims of inevitable victory around. I’ve never threatened you as an individual. (Though I have advocated a return to the policies of William T. Sherman “War is cruelty, and you cannot refine it; and those who brought war into our country deserve all the curses and maledictions a people can pour out.” I’ve called it the Scorched Earth policy.) But you really seem to have incensed you is my defense of my birthright of Freedom of Speech and Freedom of Religion. (You seem kind of threatened by it. And no, you don’t get to claim Freedom of Religion when your “religion” advocates to removal of those very same freedoms for those of rivals creeds.)

My only claim to victory is that of a debater who has forced his opponent into the verbal corner of hurling invectives and vile threats of physical force against them. Where as you are truly likened unto a Tokyo Rose or Lord Haw Haw laying claims to an inevitable victory in the War of Ideology (Freedom of Individuals vs. Fascist Authoritarianism)

As for Terrorism, seems you can’t speak of it without thinking of the “tenants” of Mohamet and it’s adherents like Arafat, Osama Bin Laden, and all the other “spiritual” leaders that follow his teachings AND EXAMPLE as closely as they can. The Mohammedan want to end this connection, simple, stop doing it. Stop “misunderstanding” your “religion” so much.

Thesaracen said, “Senor Doeboy posted a message attacking Muslims. He called them Muhammedans, he called them chimps he did not show respect to the religion but showed instead he's hatred.”

Actually I posted a message denouncing Mohammedan behaviors. If you want to view that as an attack, fine, it’s your problem. As for you consternation over my continued use of the ENGLISH word Mohammedan over the Arabic word. That is because the English word is more accurate in describing them as “followers of the tenants of Mohamet.” Where as the definition of the Arabic word is “those that submit to peace through submission to Allah”

As for your claim that I called them chimps, this is technically incorrect, I used the metaphor that said they behaved like rioting chimps. Which is far less then the incitements to violence in the Koran that call ALL non-believers the Sons of Apes and Pigs also known as Najis Kafur. Which of coarse as a good Mohammedan you would have to agree with EVERYTHING in the Koran, right? (And don’t try that crap of mistranslation or “you’re not a Mohammedan so you can’t understand it”. Mein Kempf is translated to English and I’m not a Nazi, but have the right to view its’ concepts with utter disgust.) This tells us of the true level of “respect” you have for most the people here. I suspect your purpose here is Dawa and monitoring the Kafur.

As for “respect” for any religion and it ideology, that is something earned by its’ teachings and the actions of its’ adherents, as is the DISDAIN that many have grown to hold Mohamet and his followers in.

Therefore he's a cockroach to me and I got no respect for him. That's a personal issue, and has nothing to do with terrorism.

You’re lack of “respect” for me concerns me not, for I would have to hold you or any of the Mohammedan in some form of esteem to place any kind of value on your “respect” to desire it. In fact it is the opposite, I view it as a badge of honor to have you rant and rave at me. This shows that I not only resist the poisonous growth of your ideology, but I am a hindrance to it by shining the light of truth causing it much pain and anguish.

As for nothing to do with terrorism? In this you are either deluding yourself or perform more Taqqiya. This lack of “respect” spread to ALL KAFUR. Mohammedan don’t respect their rights to their beliefs, their homes, their goods, OR THEIR LIVES! It is the heart and nub of this ideological battle.

Thesaracen said, “But like I said senor gayboy, why not go public with your views? And im not going to reply at this time but give me a couple of hours since I have a life unlike you and I'll be happy to make you look stupid.”

Again you slight of hand with my screen name is nothing more then a childish invective. As for “Going Public”, already have and I find myself a moderate to those I speak of with regards to this. There are those that still cower be for the Cult of Multiculturism Gods of Political Crap. (These ineffective whiners are quickly losing all pull and sympathy of the general masses with each insane action of the Mohammedan.) And I also find many with views that are much more “rough and ready” then my own.

Stupid? Oh please, oh please keep up the Taqqiya and invectives it’s SO entertaining to have you revealing SO much to every one here. ROFLMA

Thesaracen said, “And dumbledoramry give me a few hours I'll return to answer your new claims.”

You’re going to take on dumbledoramry? Oh this is going to be so entertaining. >:)

Senor - thes is either in a lot of denial about how he comes across, or he's a compulsive liar. Hmmm. We all know he threatened you, and playing dumb seems to be his MO. He pulled the same "what" game with me when I pointed out his double standard. All he could say was, "What are you talking about, I don't have a double standard." He's maddening!

Champ,

Maddening yes, but oh SO useful for exposing to the light the true tenants of Mohamet. The monitors from CAIR must be screaming to squilch this guy fast. Let him speak all that he "truely believes" to the world and this ideological conflict would end swiftly.

This Troll is so much fun and SO useful too. >:)

Thesaracen is kind of entertaining, but he is not the best taqiyya artist to show up here.
And to think all these defenses are of a system made up by Mohammad, and a few friends.
You can't get good fruit off of a bad tree, or so it has been quoted. Islam was not founded on goodness, it was founded on fraud. I just love to read these folks trying to defend that fraud...

I agree, Senor! Too much fun! And very educational indeed.

First of I haven’t lied or appealed to anyone here instead of dealing with the question. Senor deboy is guilty of ad hominems he didn’t answer any questions he just attacked my character and that’s the same thing you’re doing dumbledorarmy. You’re attacking my character right? Why are you being a hypocrite? Contradict me show me I’m wrong but do you have to do that by calling me a troll or a Muhamedan or a chimp? Is that not an ad hominem?

I got no quarrel with Jews who have done nothing wrong to me. And the Quran doesn’t not say hate them because they are Jews or Christians or non-believers. No it does not. All the verses that state the words attack them are regarding times of war against people who have attacked Muslims and aggressed them. It’s not regarding ordinary civilians.

One example is (9:29) which is by far the most misunderstood verse on this website.
[9:29] You shall fight back against those who do not believe in GOD, nor in the Last Day, nor do they prohibit what GOD and His messenger have prohibited, nor do they abide by the religion of truth - among those who received the scripture - until they pay the due tax, willingly or unwillingly.

In the same surah:
[9:123] O you who believe, you shall fight the disbelievers who attack you - let them find you stern - and know that GOD is with the righteous.

The first words of the verse read ‘fight back’. How can you fight back something that has done nothing wrong to you? And then it ends with ‘until they pay the Jizya willingly or unwillingly’. It must be regarding a war, because it’s not possible for me to demand Jizya of someone when I live in a non-Muslim country. So basically this verse is a call for Muslims to defend themselves against attack in a war.

Now contradict me on this matter. I have not deceived anyone; the words are there in plain English so since you want a proper debate answer this matter properly.

Muslims are among some of the most tolerant, happy, delightful people on this earth they don’t waste their time attacking other people who do them no harm, that’s not in our character. It’s not in my character anyway and I’m a Muslim.
Islam does teach this golden rule you are referring to as follows:

God does not forbid you from those who do not fight you because of religion and do not expel you from your homes – from dealing kindly and justly with them. Indeed, God loves those who act justly. God only forbids you from those who fight you because of religion and expel you from your homes and aid in your expulsion – (forbids) that you make allies of them. And whoever makes allies of them, then it is those who are the wrongdoers.” (Quran 60:8-9)

This verse not only answers this golden rule claim but also the myth that Muslims should hate Jews and Christians. Where does it say feign friendship with them?

God does not hate all the unbelievers:
"And there are, certainly, among the People of the Book [Jews and Christians], those who believe in God, in the revelation to you, and in the revelation to them, bowing in humility to God: They will not sell the Signs of God for a miserable gain! For them is a reward with their Lord, and God is swift in account. (The Noble Quran, 3:199)"

It does not make sense that I should be harsh to an unbeliever who has done nothing wrong to me. It’s not the characteristics of a righteous, pious, god-fearing believer. If this is what the Quran demands then are many cases in the hadith where Prophet Muhammad pbuh dealt with Jews and Christians with compassion and was always kind and fair to them when a problem arose between them and a Muslim. Was Prophet Muhammad pbuh contradicting what God says in the Quran? You know all to well these stories in the hadith exist and would contradict your own interpretation of the words of God. It must once again be referring to a non-believer who has done something wrong to me. It must be referring to the non-believers who attack the Muslims as mentioned in (Quran 60:8-9)

Listen If I killed someone regardless of whether he is a non-Muslim or a Muslim do you think God would not punish me. I have still killed a human being and I would be punished severely for that. Anyone who disagrees must be insane. My life must also be taken unless I am pardoned by the family of the person killed or if it was accidental killing whereby blood money would due from me.

[6:151] Say, "Come let me tell you what your Lord has really prohibited for you: You shall not set up idols besides Him. You shall honor your parents. You shall not kill your children from fear of poverty - we provide for you and for them. You shall not commit gross sins, obvious or hidden. You shall not kill - GOD has made life sacred - except in the course of justice. These are His commandments to you, that you may understand."

You shall not kill except in the course of justice i.e. when one has killed another regardless if he’s a Muslim or not.

Now tell me I have tried to deceive you. Have I resorted to ad hominem? Have I not answered your questions?

Answer a few of these why don’t you because you still haven’t.

Why should I be killed if work on the seventh day? Exodus 35:2
Should I be killed if I disrespect my parents? Exodus 21:17

If the hadith’s have said 'treat the the dhimmi’s badly' I will keep my mouth shut. And until you show me where it says treat them badly I won’t reply to questions about dhimmi’s, especially when you quote people who obviously hate the religion, then fine keep quoting them till you turn blue you won’t be able to convince me that dhimmi’s were treated badly in Islamic history.

Just to prove how deceptive you people are and how easy it is to spot your tricks. You all quote Quran (8:12) which reads:

(8:12) Remember thy Lord inspired the angels (with the message): "I am with you:
give firmness to the Believers: I will instill terror into the hearts of the Unbelievers:
smite ye above their necks and smite all their finger-tips off them."

This you have taken to mean Muslims are to attack non-believers for no reason whatsoever. But
what does the next verse say:

[8:13] This is what they have justly incurred by fighting GOD and His messenger. For those who fight against GOD and His messenger, GOD's retribution is severe.

If this man is as sincere as he says he is, I challenge him to answer the questions regarding Exodus and I challenge him to come up with a proper rebuttal of my answers to his questions.

And by the way dumbledorsarmy in a time of war you can bet your life that I'm going to lie. It is a war you clown am I supposed to tell my enemy where my soldiers are based. Is that not something every army does? Do they advocate being truthful in a time of war against your enemy? The things you people come up with is ridiculous anything is permissable doesn't matter how stupid it sounds.

Now senor doeboy you've portrayed yourself as a hero who exposed the truth about Islam. What have you exposed? And you supposedly, victoriously 'forced a Muslim into a corner'. Your a liar and a fraud. Why I'm even replying to you is a mystery.

I threatened you did I. You tell me what can I do to you over a website?

Let me tell you something you have done nothing to expose Islam absolutely nothing. I didn't inspire you to launch a tirade against my fellow Muslims did I. You felt you needed to express your views on my religion and Muslims whom you call Muhammedans and you entitled to that but you did it in a disrespectful way therefore your to blame, I never said nothing about you before you attacked me. I blame you for my words. Keep your badge of honor, wear it pride, tell me what it will do to me?

By the way since when were you someone who decides if a religion deserves respect or not. What qualifies you to make such judgments? Your an illiterate who doesn't know what a Muslim is and has confused it with a Muhammedan. People would laugh at you if you said that. I've never heard of a Muhammedan. Prophet Muhammed pbuh was simply a messenger of God; we don't worship him, we don't ask him to forgive us, that is reserved for God alone. So get a bit more knowledge read a few more books then talk on here.

If I was to say the exact same things you were saying and directed it at Jews and Christians I'd be called a terrorist. So your the terrorist your the extremist who wishes to destroy Islam, so that secularism, Judaism and Christianity will prevail over the whole world. What makes you different to the people you are fighting against?

Your going to reply with my hatred is not for Islam blah blah blah I've heard it before. You're only trying to hide what is blatantly obvious. You seek it's destruction because it does not conform to your own beliefs and it is so far gaining the upper-hand. You cannot accept this. Some things in life are meant to be, why not just worship who you will and keep your peace. Why do you have to act like a hero 'saving' people from converting to Islam. It's not working my friend.

Your own President had the nerve to say god inspired him to rid Iraq of tyranny. You turn a blind eye to that and say it's Muslims who are using religion to justify their actions.

There is no Taqqiya here, this is truth which is painful for you to read. You'll find a way to make it look like I'm lying but when you can't, which is like right now, you'll just change the subject and attack me again and attack Muslims.

You can all back each other and help each other, it makes no difference to me.
The day I am banned from this website is the day that I know that this website is a fraud.

Thesaracen No taqiyya here...Tell us another funny story. You are such a hierophant of superior knowledge. We should all bow down and worship you.
Everyone here is wrong except your lordship, or rather Imamship. Do you really think anyone is going read your long drawn out insanitizations? I just coined a new word, an ability unknown in Islam.
Every one is wrong about the violent nature of Islam, in reality, you are just a bunch of boy scouts. Yep if you say that long enough you might get someone to believe you, but probably it will be another muslim, no sensible non muslim will go for it...

The not so noble Qur'an
005.051
YUSUFALI: O ye who believe! take not the Jews and the Christians for your friends and protectors: They are but friends and protectors to each other. And he amongst you that turns to them (for friendship) is of them. Verily Allah guideth not a people unjust.

Jews and Christians are clearly defined as “unjust” people.

008.017
YUSUFALI: It is not ye who slew them; it was Allah: when thou threwest (a handful of dust), it was not thy act, but Allah's: in order that He might test the Believers by a gracious trial from Himself: for Allah is He Who heareth and knoweth (all things).

Freedom from any barbaric acts committed in the name of Allah against non-combatants, because Allah always ends up on the losing end when infidels have guns.

Sahih Bukhari
Volume 1, Book 2, Number 24:
Narrated Ibn 'Umar:
Allah's Apostle said: "I have been ordered (by Allah) to fight against the people until they testify that none has the right to be worshipped but Allah and that Muhammad is Allah's Apostle, and offer the prayers perfectly and give the obligatory charity, so if they perform a that, then they save their lives an property from me except for Islamic laws and then their reckoning (accounts) will be done by Allah."

Volume 4, Book 52, Number 177:
Narrated Abu Huraira:
Allah's Apostle said, "The Hour will not be established until you fight with the Jews, and the stone behind which a Jew will be hiding will say. "O Muslim! There is a Jew hiding behind me, so kill him."

That is the truth about Mohammadanism for you.

Spiritual intoxication is a phenomena common to many religious persons who opens themselves up to God.
Spiritual intoxication is not desirable, and can lead to violence. In the western world, spiritual intoxication occurs to individuals, not usually in groups, although certain groups do attain to it.
So called 'Holy Rollers ' for instance. Yet we never see hundreds or more, 'Holy Rollers' charging out of church after Friday prayers, and immediately go into riot mode, and attack someone or some thing. And no Holy roller has ever strapped on a bomb, rolling is their thing, not fighting.
This kind of mass spiritual intoxication comes from Islam. Hamas is stressed from being intoxicated by Allah, and being on alert all the time because of military status. The populations of all muslim countries under stress, which seem to be all of them, are most all suffering the same deleterious spiritual intoxication.
This guy thesaracen, has a strong case.
It makes him think he is superior in every way, intellectually, even physically. He thinks Allah and right are on his side. Those two act like a powerful drug, too strong for the untrained mind, so out comes Islamobabble. The prime expression, short of violence, of Islamic spiritual intoxication. A muslim who sobers up, is called an apostate...

Dumbledore---
Thanks- Just reserved "People of the Lie" at my library

thesaracen -

You obviously have an IQ and an education and live in the West like the fine Mohammedan parasite you are. Too bad you use it for evil. Too bad you waste your time with a false prophet who was also a mass murderer

In other circumstances you could perhaps do something useful to humanity. Like invent a new medicine or other health measure. Like the Jews do with all their Nobel winning scientists. Hardly any Muslim Noble prize winners in science. Maybe one or two. Because the best Muslim intellects waste their time on your illogical idiotic Koran.

75% of Saudi PhDs are in Mohammedanism. The study of it. Useless crap like what Muhammad did to a camel 1400+ years ago

You know I would retaliate with some anti-Jewish rhetoric but that would be wrong. You're obviously a Jew who lives in his own world and thinks he's superior to a Muslim. If thats what you believe then believe it. Don't come up to me with that crap, take it to someone who gives a fuck about you and your people.

Was that addressed to me, camel jockey?

Muslims are losers who can't invent shit. All your petroleum facilities are built by foreigners because you never study science. Only your phony Koran. You are stuck in the past and stuck on stupid

Only 12 million Jews yet my people's scientific contributions to humanity are one million times greater than your one billion fly blown hordes

The biggest Jewish advancement was the end of pagan human sacrifice. This is what your Muslims have revived with Jihad wars. You are no better than the Aztecs and their massive human sacrifice festivals. You are so similar to them with sun gods and allahs that gorge on the blood of human sacrifice victims

I'm restraining myself from spitting on your face. What is it that you want from me. Are you blaming Muslims for you being kicked out of one country to another? It has nothing to do with Islam my Jewish friend. I have no quarrel with you so I suggest you leave me alone.

So sorry, Saracen, but it has everything to do with islam and you know it. Were it not for islam and people who despise the jews because they were told to do so, the world would be a better place. Don't come here if you want to be left alone in your world of denial. The muslims of the world, all 1.3 billion of them would love to kill all the jews. It is so sad that you've taken the word of your clerics and refuse to use your own ability to discern between good and evil. Jews are not evil. They are no different than you and I. You've been sold a bill of goods , Pal.

And by the way ,Saracen, I think you do worship Muhammed. People are murdered all the time because they may have injured the sensibilities of muslims,i.e.,cartoons depicting muhammed.

Of course the Mohammedans worship Mohammad. That's why they are called Mohammedans. Of course they deny this and claim Muhammad was not divine. That he was merely the perfect man whose life was flawless and worthy of slavish emulation (monkey see, monkey do) by all mankind, not just Mohammedans.

But even a fool can see the net result of all this silliness is Muhammad worship. He is their idol and prophet. So they waste their lives in slavish adulation of this madman instead of doing anything productive for all humanity. Like inventing something useful.

Thesaracen, “And by the way dumbledorsarmy in a time of war you can bet your life that I'm going to lie. It is a war you clown am I supposed to tell my enemy where my soldiers are based. Is that not something every army does? Do they advocate being truthful in a time of war against your enemy? The things you people come up with is ridiculous anything is permissable doesn't matter how stupid it sounds.”

Tisk, Tisk, Saracen, you just let that cat out of the bag. Islam is at WAR with the rest of the adherents of all rival ideologies, GASP!! And in the same breath you state which side you are on. (Not that any one here had any doubts on those subjects) Oh, this means we can assume anything you say is Taqqiya from here out.

Thesaracen, “Now senor doeboy you've portrayed yourself as a hero who exposed the truth about Islam.”

Nope, never called myself a hero, so that’s a strawman. And as for exposing the ideology of Mohamet, well, the Mohammedan seem to do a right proper job of exposing it themselves, all on their own, but it’s also just so much fun helping all of you to do it too.

Thesaracen, “What have you exposed? And you supposedly, victoriously 'forced a Muslim into a corner'.”

What have I exposed? Me? Absolutely nothing, it was all your own doing. (The irrational arguments used, the primal rage, and demands for instant capitulation from all your speak to… that’s just a good start to name a few as ways you expose yourself and Mohammedism) As for cornering “A DEBATING ADVISORY”, well it’s a common sign that the opponent has had his argument crumble upon him when he starts using hurled invectives instead of logic and facts. (Seems BurgerBoy has already taken on the last batch of “Taqqiya Facts” you tried using about the “peaceful” Mohammedan Theology)

Thesaracen, “Your a liar and a fraud.”

Oh my, more invectives. Oh hum… reminds me of the riddle that goes one man can only tell the truth and the other can only tell a lie. Now how was that riddle solved? ROFLMA

Thesaracen, “Why I'm even replying to you is a mystery.”

Hmm… good one… I’ll take a stabbing guess on that one… could it be the Mohammedan Superiority Complex prevents you from feeling bested in anyway by a Najis Kafur (and that includes a simple debate)?

Thesaracen, “I threatened you did I. You tell me what can I do to you over a website?”

Actually I cared not one wit that you had threatened me, it was you that had asked the question “Thesaracen said, ”All this talk about violence and threats and terrorism and victory. Where are you getting all this?”” I was only answering your questioning. Perhaps this was a rhetorical question and you already realized it was you. Though I would advice for you to go “Google” the short titled “Achmed the Dead Terrorist” so you can understand the subtle chuckles on this blog over the threats you’ve made. (And while you watch it, notice every one in the audience is laughing and no one is leaving in protest).

Thesaracen, “Let me tell you something you have done nothing to expose Islam absolutely nothing.”

I’ve established you’re doing a grand job all by yourself, oh grand Mohammedan

Thesaracen, “I didn't inspire you to launch a tirade against my fellow Muslims did I.”

Since everything I have said has been to critic illogical statements, or correct misleading information. Yup, You did inspire me, but I get to keep the credit for all my “ACTIONS AND REACTIONS”.

Thesaracen, “You felt you needed to express your views on my religion and Muslims whom you call Muhammedans and you entitled to that but you did it in a disrespectful way therefore your to blame, I never said nothing about you before you attacked me. I blame you for my words. Keep your badge of honor, wear it pride, tell me what it will do to me?”
Oh my, you mean I’m entitled to express my opinion about the behaviors of Mohammedan on a Blog that is dedicated to it? Or do you mean that MY BIRTHRIGHT of FREEDOM OF SPEECH and FREEDOM OF RELIGION can only be expressed with in the confines of this BLOG or is it only where the Mohammedan allow it to be? We went over this one before, I'll accept no curtailment of my rights, which includes my right to hold the Tenants of Mohamet with DISDAIN, CONTEMPT, and REVULSION. (Note, no fear of, so you can forget the phobic label. And since I accept the creeds of Buddhist, Hindus, Christians, Jewish, Agnostics, and Atheist as equals, the charge of Bigotry doesn’t stick. This means it’s only the tenants of Mohamet and his SHARIA LAW, I hold in low regard.)

I never attacked you, I critiqued your statements, you have gone to personal attacks at every chance you could. Unless what I had read in that doctoral dissertation was right. That Mohammedan have no sense of self-esteem outside of the ideology, just like any cultist find themselves.

You blame me for your words? You have no REPONSIBILITY FOR YOUR OWN ACTIONS OR REACTIONS? Hmmm… what does that remind me of… oh wait… I know “RIOTING LIKE CHIMPS”, pathetic.

Thesaracen, “By the way since when were you someone who decides if a religion deserves respect or not. What qualifies you to make such judgments?

“I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use.” Galileo Galilei

I don’t believe that I can describe why I get to think for myself better then he did. LOL

Thesaracen, “Your an illiterate who doesn't know what a Muslim is and has confused it with a Muhammedan. People would laugh at you if you said that. I've never heard of a Muhammedan.

Okay, for the third time, (You truly can’t be this dense). I SPEAK ENGLISH. The English word for the followers of Mohamet is Mohammedan. It’s meaning is simple and clear. A follower of the tenants of Mohamet. That’s it… it’s that simple. Just like Buddhist is a Follower of the tenants of Buddha. A Christian is a Follower of the tenant of Christ. Oh… and the spelling of that word is MOHAMMEDAN. Try the online dictionary… it does work.

Which brings us back to the ARABIC words Muslim which means “Those that have submitted to peace through submission to Allah". Again, I do not subscribe to the ideas and concepts behind this ARABIC word. I do not see peace in it, so I will not use this word.

Thesaracen, “Prophet Muhammed pbuh was simply a messenger of God; we don't worship him, we don't ask him to forgive us, that is reserved for God alone. So get a bit more knowledge read a few more books then talk on here.

I do not ascribe the Pedophile False Prophet Muhammad (Piss Be Upon Him) had anything to do with anything DIVINE. In my view he was a failed merchant that had turned Bandit Warlord with the psychological dysfunction of schizophrenia and epileptic seizures. I never said you worship him, and I would recommend worshipping such a thing.

Thesaracen, “If I was to say the exact same things you were saying and directed it at Jews and Christians I'd be called a terrorist.
Actually terrorism requires a bit more the mire DISDAIN, CONTEMPT, and REVULSION. Terrorism requires something more like… those wonderful words of slaughter, mayhem and satanic hate found in the Koran.

Thesaracen, “So your the terrorist your the extremist who wishes to destroy Islam, so that secularism, Judaism and Christianity will prevail over the whole world. What makes you different to the people you are fighting against?

If you view scorning SHARIA LAW, refusing to pay the JIZYA, and preferring to stand on my own before I bow as a Mohammedan Dhimmi terrorism, so be it. And if these actions will destroy the expansionistic, militant, fascist, ideology behind Mohammedanism then it is a weak philosophy.

Thesaracen, “Your going to reply with my hatred is not for Islam blah blah blah I've heard it before. You're only trying to hide what is blatantly obvious.”

Hide what is obvious? Oh contraire I show my DISDAIN, CONTEMPT, AND REVULTION at Islamofascism

Thesaracen, “You seek it's destruction because it does not conform to your own beliefs and it is so far gaining the upper-hand. You cannot accept this. Some things in life are meant to be, why not just worship who you will and keep your peace. Why do you have to act like a hero 'saving' people from converting to Islam. It's not working my friend.”

Again if refusing to bow to Sharia and being a Dhimmi results in the destruction of Islamofascism, it is a weak philosophy. As for upper hand, that is not what I see, I see a desperate ideology lashing out in it’s last death throes as like the dinosaurs it slowly goes extinct. Having found itself no longer capable of competing in the MORDERN GLOBAL MARKET OF IDEALS. And do you really think your DAWA here would convert anyone to this relic of thought?

Thesaracen, “Your own President had the nerve to say god inspired him to rid Iraq of tyranny. You turn a blind eye to that and say it's Muslims who are using religion to justify their actions.”

So sorry chap, here you do the straw man act yet again. I have never said I agree with our President or his policies. I’d vote for Hugh’s policies, but prefer my own idea of following William T. Sherman’s strategies.

Thesaracen, “There is no Taqqiya here, this is truth which is painful for you to read. You'll find a way to make it look like I'm lying but when you can't, which is like right now, you'll just change the subject and attack me again and attack Muslims.”

Dang, you even fall for even your own Taqqiya, I think there is a psychological disorder already labeled for this.

Thesaracen, “You can all back each other and help each other, it makes no difference to me.”

Ah, poor Saracen, can’t handle the Big Dog’s Run of free speech and academic inquiry. I hear they allow hoods and blinds to be worn in the puppy pound of the Middle East, you can strut around all day and think your ideology is the pig’s trough over there.

Thesaracen, “The day I am banned from this website is the day that I know that this website is a fraud.”

Line by line, word by word, and punctuation by punctuation your ideals shall be tested in the FORGE OF FREE SPEECH, FREE RELIGION, AND FREE THOUGHT. Nope, I doubt you’ll get banned, most likely you’ll crawl away like all the other mauled and shredded Trolls.

Well see you all next weekend, it’s been real fun.

Saracen---

You come across as being bi-polar. Or have more than one slave to allah posting under your name. My advice to you is give up this Muhammad nonsense and pursue a more productive path

Mohammedanism is an evolutionary dead end. It keeps people mentally backward and content to live in Pakistani and Egyptian style squalor.

Just for general information, much of the aid that the USA sent to the soviets during ww2 was repackaged so that the citizens would not be aware that the aid came from those evil capitalistic nations.

This incident seems to be similar, because the red crescent society is percieved by Hamas to be part of the PA or closely associated with them they do not want the Gazans to know that the PA is trying to help them.

In some cases in History where aid was not siezed the propagandists would pretend that the aid was given arrogantly and would demand ingratitude as being the politically correct response.

Dennisw,

Your comment above was spot on!

Of course the Mohammedans worship Mohammad. That's why they are called Mohammedans. Of course they deny this and claim Muhammad was not divine. That he was merely the perfect man whose life was flawless and worthy of slavish emulation (monkey see, monkey do) by all mankind, not just Mohammedans.

It's funny. A cursory review of Hadith and the Korant reveal this little gem. I love watching Muslims squirm out of this pickle:

033.056 YUSUFALI: Allah and His angels send blessings on the Prophet: O ye that believe! Send ye blessings on him, and salute him with all respect. PICKTHAL: Lo! Allah and His angels shower blessings on the Prophet. O ye who believe! Ask blessings on him and salute him with a worthy salutation. SHAKIR: Surely Allah and His angels bless the Prophet; O you who believe! call for (Divine) blessings on him and salute him with a (becoming) salutation.

So much for idolatry of Mo...
---------------------------------------
Senor Doeboy -

Nice defense! But a word of advice. Next time, just go down into the basement and start yelling at the furnace. You'll get far better answers!

exsgtbrown

thanks for posting that piece on the late unlamented Yasser Arafat. Just to complete the demolition job, for the further instruction of any visitors to this site, I'll post two character sketches of Arafat, one by Oriana Fallaci who had met Arafat and interviewed him, and one by French sociologist Jacques Ellul. Americans, in particular, may not be familiar with these two writers: both of them ruthless gadflies and truth-tellers.

Oriana first, from her magnificent essay 'On Jew-Hatred in Europe', originally published in Italian in the Panorama magazine April 17, 2002:

"I find it shameful that many Italians and many Europeans have chosen as their standard-bearer the gentleman (or so it is polite to say) Arafat.
"This nonentity who thanks to the money of the Saudi Royal Family plays the Mussolini ad perpetuum and in his megalomania believes he will pass into History as the George Washington of Palestine.
"This ungrammatical wretch who when I interviewed him was unable even to put together a complete sentence, to make articulate conversation. So that to put it all together, write it, publish it, cost me a tremendous effort and I concluded that compared to him even Ghaddafi sounds like Leonardo da Vinci.
"This false warrior who always goes around in uniform like Pinochet, never putting on civilian garb, and yet despite this has never participated in a battle. War is something he?sends, has always sent, others to do for him.
"That is, the poor souls who believe in him. This pompous incompetent who playing the part of Head of State caused the failure of the Camp David negotiations, Clinton's mediation. No-no-I-want-Jerusalem-all-to-myself.
"THIS ETERNAL LIAR who has a flash of sincerity only when (in private) he denies Israel's right to exist, and who as I say in my book contradicts himself every five minutes.
"He always plays the double-cross, lies even if you ask him what time it is, so that you can never trust him. Never! With him you will always wind up systematically betrayed.
"This eternal terrorist who knows only how to be a terrorist (while keeping himself safe) and who during the Seventies, that is, when I interviewed him, even trained the terrorists of Baader-Meinhof. With them, children ten years of age. Poor children. (Now he trains them to become suicide bombers. A hundred baby suicide bombers are in the works: a hundred!).
"This weathercock who keeps his wife at Paris, served and revered like a queen, and keeps his people down in the shit. He takes them out of the shit only to send them to die, to kill and to die, like the eighteen-year-old girls who in order to earn equality with men have to strap on explosives and disintegrate with their victims".

And now for Jacques Ellul, in the second chapter of his equally magnificent "Un Chretien Pour Israel". In French first:
Et, de fait, Yasser Arafat m’est apparu comme un genie de la propagande, le plus grand depuis Goebbels. La composition du personnage, le spectaculaire de ses interventions (son arrivee a l’ONU, pistolet a la ceinture, l’entrevue avec le Pape), son caractere amical et solide, l’habilete de ses discours, la capacite a retourner une situation par des mots, l’aptitude a mobiliser autour de lui les media, l’identification de sa personne a tout le peuple palestinien (le processus tres remarquable: l’OLP, c’est Arafat; tous les Palestiniens, c’est l’OLP). Sa capacite a repeter indefiniment des contre-verites eclatantes jusqu’a ce que ses affirmations soient acceptees comme verites, les faits etant occultes par la puissance du discours…"

[Translation]:
"And in fact Yasser Arafat appeared to me as a propaganda genius, second only to Goebbels. The construction of the image, the spectacle of his speeches (his arrival at the UN with a revolver in [his] belt; his audience with the Pope), his 'amicable' and ‘sturdy’ character, the cleverness of his speech, the capacity to turn a situation upside-down with words, the ability to gather the media around him, the identification of his person with all the Palestinian people (very remarkable sequence: the PLO is Arafat; all Palestinians are the PLO).
"His (Arafat’s) capacity to endlessly repeat astonishing anti-truths until his affirmations were accepted as truth, the facts being obscured by the power of rhetoric…".

Both Fallaci and Ellul saw in Arafat a Person of the Lie. Ellul recognises Arafat's surface cleverness, his mastery of the Big Lie toward others, and compares him to Goebbels; Fallaci describes what that lifetime of deceit had done, was doing to Arafat himself, inside. It is chilling; it is a vision of total spiritual, moral and intellectual corruption.

Face it, thes, you are fighting a losing battle in trying to convince JWer's that Islam has anything to offer this crowd. We are going to cut you to pieces, day in, and day out - and for what - so you can hold on to the notion, to the illusion, that Islam is worth preserving, that Islam is worth defending? It's not!

We are a group of astute, freedom loving individuals who know better than to buy anything that you're selling, as we can find nothing of redeeming value within Islam. Nothing.

The truth is, even the Town Fool can see that Islam is evil at it's core. Even the Town Fool can see that Islam is backwards and destructive to God's intended purposes.

And for you to get sideways with all the silly name calling, swearing, and sucker punches, only serves to prove why we stand against Islam and what it stands for; and your behavior also serves to show how negatively Islam influences people - people like you.

I hate what Islam stands for, and for what it stands against: serving the One True God.

boneshack---

Muhammad is the only figure that counts in Islam and the Koran. Islam rises and falls on the words and actions of this central figure. So it is pretty much unavoidable that Islam's backward and superstitious believers will treat him as a god. As an object of worship. Islam its Muslims are illogical contradictory and inconsistent. Go by their actions. Not by their rhetoric

Contrast this with the many prophets in the Hebrew bible. The New Testament is Christ-centric but there is still room for the Apostles plus Jesus is divine. There is no duplicity here

Dennisw,

I'm fully on your side here. I only posted that Korant reference to reinforce our position.

I fully and completely understand and believe that the the Fake Prophet 'Muhammed' was a:

Pedophile, rapist, thief, liar, assassin, murderer.

You know the rest of this "Perfect Man"'s attributes.

[3:20] If they argue with you, then say, "I have simply submitted myself to GOD; I and those who follow me." You shall proclaim to those who received the scripture, as well as those who did not, "Would you submit?" If they submit, then they have been guided, but if they turn away, your sole mission is to deliver this message. GOD is Seer of all people.

You hate Islam but you cannot justify why you hate it. Your pressed only to change the subject. I do not wish to convert anyone of you but at least listen, without your veins pulsating in rage.

Prophet Muhammed pbuh was in the eyes of many people- Muslim or non-Muslim alike- the greatest human being thats ever lived. Not only has his message stood untampered for over a Millennium, but that same message has brought peace, guidance and tranquility to all those who wish to know with an open heart. All these claims about him are your own inventions. His message is simple; worship one god, associate no partners with him, treat your woman and your fellow humans with kindness. Give in plenty to the orphans and the needy, defend the weak against oppression and preach Islam. Let the world know there is no god but god. Do you think Prophet Muhammed pbuh was above God's law, why would he rape someone? He knew he would return to god and stand before him. This is a man who would weep and tremble at the remembrance of god.

And Dennis I don't know what you're talking about
Does possessing a Nobel science prize make your people better?
Muslims invented Chemistry, they developed Algebra, they developed the tax system. We don't even need to invent something, many scientific facts which you have only discovered in the past century are in the Quran. There are so many things, ordinary everyday luxuries that you take for granted that Muslims either invented or further developed- public Libraries, public hospitals. We even kicked started space exploration!

Fielding H. Garrison wrote in the History of Medicine:
"The Saracens themselves were the originators not only of algebra, chemistry, and geology, but of many of the so-called improvements or refinements of civilization, such as street lamps, window-panes, firework, stringed instruments, cultivated fruits, perfumes, spices, etc..."

The list is endless my friend, from soap, to shampoo to cheques, all started out with Muslims. So stop this ignorant talk.

If a Muslim country which does not desire any western relations, happens to find a bit of success and peace and wishes to defend its country by developing weapons or forces- which is something that is not denied any non-Muslim country- that means to you it is surely going to attack the West. But they have their own success why do they need to attack you? You won't let Muslim countries live peacefully and then you say they are poor. Why are they poor? If Muslims were allowed to live in peace without, having their elected governments overthrown, without sanctions, without interference because they don't conform to the standards of the West, Muslim countries would be side by side with you right now, helping you create a better world instead of war.

Many people are aware of this, had the Muslims wanted global domination, they would have wiped out every army that stood in their way when they were the most powerful army that existed on the face of this earth. Why didn't they do it then?

Your success is only down to the fact that you have been able to incorporate all of these things that you have learnt into your own societies and with peace comes advancements and a better quality of life. The same way Muslims learnt from the Chinese and the Greeks you learnt from the Muslims. And good luck to you, I'm not jealous or saying you owe something to Muslims. But you can't deny that Islam has given this world far too much for it to be a religion of pure hatred of others.

I mean read this does ,this ex-CIA guy support what you say about Islam?

http://mpacuk.org/content/view/4346/34/

Islam provides a convenient scapegoat for those trying to explain the origins of terrorism, he says.

“Today, the U.S. occupation of Iraq would be no more welcome to Iraqis if they were Christian. The United States did not overthrow Saddam Hussein, an intensely nationalist and secular leader, because he was Muslim.... Nowhere do people welcome foreign occupation and the killing of their citizens at the hands of foreign troops.”

He notes that the “principal horrors” of the 20th century “came almost exclusively from strictly secular regimes: Leopold II of Belgium in the Congo, Hitler, Mussolini, Lenin and Stalin, Mao and Pol Pot. It was Europeans who visited their “world wars’ twice upon the rest of the world - two devastating global conflicts with no remote parallels in Islamic history.”

You use Islam and Muslims as a scapegoat to explain the horrors of a war, that even you don't have a justification for. Stop this madness.

And this Taqqiya you keep mentioning is a shi'a practice and is deemed hypocrisy and cowardice in Islam. Why should I lie when I'm in danger? Why should you fear a human when Allah swt is the one you should fear? It's not something I practice I'm afraid so stop labeling it at me. They only use Taqqiya when in danger and renounce their beliefs, so how would it apply on the internet against you lot?