Pipe bomb evidence can be used in Florida Muslim students' case

So the alleged 'bias' is worse than pipe-bombs?

Yep, our society is defeating itself.

These people would have us believe that pipe bombs are for playing hopscotch and other fun games and that classifying pipe bombs as "weapons" and/or stopping Muslim/Americans for carrying them illegally is, somehow, clearly "racist."

I was really concerned about this. Glad to hear the judge made the right call. Someone really needs to connect the jihadist dots here in the Tampa Bay area and blow the lid off what seems to be an entrenched community of Islamic Jihadists. What is even more concerning is that they are able to operate seemingly without interference until they do something stupid and literally stumble into a law enforcement officer or blow themselves up. There must be a significant community of those elusive "moderate muslims" here to support the Jihadists.

If you haven't visited Bill Warner's website yet, it might be worth a few minutes of your time. It sure opened my eyes as to what is going on right under our noses.
http://wbipi.com/

How is law enforcement supposed to hunt down taliban/al-queada sleeper cells without ever actually mentioning the term 'terrorist' or "jihad"?

Pythagoras

I couldn't have put it better myself.

Where are the moderate Muslims in the streets protesting this? Why can't the non-91 million group of Muslims do something about this?

Good on the judge making the right decision.

"The men used terms like "terrorist" and Taliban."

What you want bet those the men never used those terms.

" 'The men used terms like "terrorist" and Taliban.'

What you want bet those the men never used those terms."

Unfortunately the conversations in which those words were used were recorded on the officers' video camera and were played on television for all to hear. Personally, I don't have a problem with the officers engaging in speculation about the possible affiliations of the accused, but it does give ammo to the other side.

Defense lawyers will try anything to get their clients off the hook- that's their job.

That being said, it's fortunate the judge in this case didn't buy into the PC reasoning of the lawyers. You don't need to do much to give a cop a reasonable excuse to search your car when pulled over. The officers could have just as easily have found drugs in the car, but they didn't. They found pipe bombs being transported by jihadis. If we were to listen to people who would agree with the defense- that this was a bias, it begs the question- how about the bias of the jihadis against the infidels?

"" 'The men used terms like "terrorist" and Taliban.'

What you want bet those the men never used those terms."

Unfortunately the conversations in which those words were used were recorded on the officers' video camera and were played on television for all to hear. Personally, I don't have a problem with the officers engaging in speculation about the possible affiliations of the accused, but it does give ammo to the other side."

If the officers had found bottles of cold medicine, hydrogen peroxide, scales and other paraphernalia would they be condemned for using words like "tweakers", "meth-heads" or "speed freaks"? I doubt it.

The officers were communicating with their collegues, not making statements in court.

The judge made the right call.

Let us be thankful that the 9th Circus won't get a chance to weigh in on this.

Fighting the arrayed armies of Islam with due process, lending Muslims our rights so they can then use them as further weapons to subvert us...

It is insane.

jsla said:

"Fighting the arrayed armies of Islam with due process, lending Muslims our rights so they can then use them as further weapons to subvert us...

It is insane."

The problem is- if we don't guarantee those rights for muslim Americans, and those on our soil, how can we be certain those rights will be guaranteed to us?

One thing that I am noticing in these csses, is that police rarely tie these groups to mosques, islamic centers or MSA groups. Surely crime prevention dictates that the public learn where these savages are indoctrinated. I suspect that local authorities fear federal court intervention, and treat these jihadis as ordinary criminals. Jihadis cannot be rehabilitated because they are ground in thoughts of eternity, with 72 hymen-regenerators.

I agree with you, Supercargo. I hope the FBI is backtracking their movements and grilling their fellow travelers. Homeland Security really needs to stop student visas from these countries. Our educational and training institutions will squeal, but big deal.

Sharmutzel,

you are part of the problem. The solution is another one. Go back to the sycophantic lizards and sing along in Charlies echo-chamber!

A judge blessed with commonsense, a rare phenomenon in the judiciary these days. As said these jihadists are not of your commonplace criminals… though, the politically-correct brigade seemingly view them as only social-malcontents or pests.
Another judge of the above mentioned, pc, variety may very well have given these “students” their walking papers. Evidently, it may well take another heinous terrorist act to reopen the eyes of many Americans: there are numerous others, however, who, even then, will choose to dwell in a state of self or collective-denial.

The problem is- if we don't guarantee those rights for muslim Americans, and those on our soil, how can we be certain those rights will be guaranteed to us?

Posted by: Sharmuta at February 29, 2008 1:49 AM

There is a simple answer to your question:
Since muslims are treated above non-muslims in Islamic law, non-muslims whould be treated above muslims, in non-islamic laws.

"The problem is- if we don't guarantee those rights for muslim Americans, and those on our soil, how can we be certain those rights will be guaranteed to us?"

Posted by: Sharmuta at February 29, 2008 1:49 AM

"Sharmutzel,

you are part of the problem. The solution is another one. Go back to the sycophantic lizards and sing along in Charlies echo-chamber!"

Posted by: sheik yer'mami

sheik yer'mami,

I agree that Sharmuta's point is galling. Unfortunately, it's also true. Muslims have to be handled like nitro-glycerine. They're as unstable, and as likely to cause damage. Terrorists, or wannabe terrorists have tentacles. They have buddies who would love an opportunity to "avenge" them. Leave them no excuse, and they look like the retards they are.

The best way to proceed with these two dorks is to claim the moral (and legal) high ground, and hang onto it. Everything must be done by the book, leaving no loopholes for them to slither through.

As for the other rights--the very thing we rail against, is when we see Mohammed's dregs trying to use ours--our rights, our laws, our principles--to take these things away from us!

There's no room in any civilized country for more than one law--the law of the land. If it's not good law, fair law, strong law, it's destined to go down the tubes, and tomorrow I'll be asking my female co-workers if my hijab matches the rest of my baggy dress.

In my opinion, Sharmuta is right. But, I understand your frustration and anger.

Here, Abscedere:

This is the Lizard/Sharmutzel mindset:

http://kenlydell.typepad.com/photos/cartoons/toon051806.html

It's just a part of the jihadist auto kit. You got your flares, jumper cables (for torturing kuffirs), fix a flat, AK-47, jack, spare tire and pipe bombs.

It's time infidel police officers got used to it.

A poster above wonders "how can those rights be guaranteed to us?"

I used the term "arrayed armies" deliberately. The Muslims are waging a war to destroy our society and supplant it with one that reflects Islamic values and Islamic principles. We can see in virtually every Islamic nation on earth that the rights of non- Muslims are trampled on and rejected by Muslims everywhere. We see in virtually every Islamic nation on earth that terrorism, intimidation, genocide, and "ethnic cleansing" are tools employed by Muslims to gain domination and to drive "unbelievers" before and under the jackboot of Islam.

The mass murderers who hijacked those planes were Muslim soldiers waging war to harm "infidels", and to destroy "infidel" property, and to destroy the "infidel" sense of security in our own dominion.

Across America, Muslim student associations are also waging Jihad on our campuses where, like a cancer, the creeping pollution of Sharia accommodations are being enacted by servile administrators.

Across America, new Muslims are colonizing little (and not so little) tracts of land, tiny little footholds for Islam, where their intentions are clear: spread Islam and secure new beach heads for further spreading of Islam.

Whether by the bake sale at the local Mosque or newly minted "Islamic Community Center" (most often paid for, by the way, with "infidel" funds), or on the campus where fresh demands are being made daily to Islamicize those campuses, or at the meat packing or computer manufacturing plants where fresh demands for "Islamic prayer rooms" and endless demands for endless prayer breaks are being made daily, Muslims are waging their broad war against us.

This war is not a legal affair of rights and niceties and accommodationist "tolerance", though it serves the Muslims' purposes to depict it as such. The Muslims are waging Islamic war for keeps. Why should we allow them to make further inroads, why should we permit the further subversions? And why should we continue to allow them to parasitize our hard won rights, or continue to permit them to subvert and trample upon those selfsame rights by spreading more Islam here on our soil? Muslims aren't stakeholders in our Western systems and societies. They are intentional subverters of those systems and societies. They only want to use those aspects of our society which permit them to further the spreading of the system which is utterly central to their existence: Islam. A genuine war has never been fought by hauling the armies of your enemy into court and according them every privilege of a free people.

As their Jihad continues to make inroads, as it continues to subvert and spread, the poster's suggestion of offering Muslims our rights will take its toll on our systems of governance. If anything, such a notion guarantees the destruction of those rights eventually. Allowing Muslims to freely wage Jihad, and then treating their worst atrocities as "crimes" rather than what they truly are, acts of war, will be our undoing. In fact, these cynical self serving Muslims are counting on it.

memo to sharmuta and sheikh yer'mami:

Those who willingly (and often eagerly) commit atrocities designed to destroy western civilization and exterminate its citizenry are not automatically entitled to the benefits of western civilization. Besides that,these terrorists, whose intentions are to extinguish western civilization, are not the equals of the westerners they mean to exterminate anyway. So why should terrorists be treated as the equals of westerners under western laws when the two groups (terrorists and their intended victims) are NOT equal?

Furthermore, Islamic terrorists are ANTI-HUMAN RIGHTS as we know them and continue working tirelessly towards the day when human rights will cease to exist ('praise be to al-lah'!!!). So why should the west waste the time and energy giving terrorists these things when they don't want them anyway? Talk about casting pearls before swine!

Westerners struggled for many centuries to bring forth the blessings of liberty, economic development and human rights. Where is it written that they must extend these blessings to those who can and in fact have invaded their lands and attempt repeatedly to wipe out these same blessings?

If a dangerous, wild animal invaded your home at night to eat you, would you regard it as your equal and try to treat it with the same dignity you might want, or would you just shoot the damn thing before it killed you? (Same difference).

jsla- please don't talk down to me as though I don't understand the nature of the enemy- thank you.

That being said- I stand by my statement. Do you really want to start denying Constitutional rights to others? And where does it end- when they start denying your rights? Stating the ummah wouldn't grant us any rights, so why should we grant them any is an over-simplification solution. Does it make me happy? Of course not, but I'm not willing to risk the very foundation of America, because if I do- then what am I fighting for? Also note- that when these jihadis do fall into the hands of the American legal system- they lose.

And to the racist, fascist sympathizer "sheik yer mami"- if Mr. Spencer were to ask me to leave, I'd listen, but to you I don't answer.

sharmuta:

Unfortunately, many jihadists that are prosecuted in the US legal system do NOT get convicted. And that is a major part of the problem and why legal jihad is succeeding in damaging the western democracies.

pythagoras-

Do you mean the financial jihadis, or jihadis captured while plotting acts of terror, because I was referencing the plotters like moussawi and padilla.

There you have it.

The libtarded Sharmutzel calls me a 'racist' and that's it. The twit doesn't even know what race I am...

Like I said: Sharmutzel, go and sing in unison, worry about the freedom your government is taking away from us, about Abu Ghraib and about 'racism'.

Or go symbol chasing, remember: there are Nazi's lurking behind every bush. And white power supremacists. And abortion clinic bombers. Yep, that's the mindset...

But actually, I see your diversionary tactics and your smear-job for what it is, Sharmutzel. Could it be that you are an Islamic agent provocateur instead of a naive libtard?

jsla- please don't talk down to me as though I don't understand the nature of the enemy- thank you."

The poster misconstrues my post in several ways, beginning by imagining I was somehow talking "down" to him (her?). I was not talking to him (her?) in the least, so there's certainly no need to seethe with feigned indignation.

Apparently we are to understand from such posters that it will certainly be fatal to our rights as free Westerners if we curtail in any manner the actions of Muslims or their opportunities to act against us through subversion.

Muslims are waging their war on our own soil. In their hands, our rights, privileges, wealth, openness, tolerance, and technology are weaponized. Muslims are brazenly working across a wide spectrum, from their perches in academia, (both as "students" and "educators"), as "experts on Islam" whispering poisonous lies and obfuscations into the ears of politicians and decision makers, they are perverting our justice system by suing to silence criticism, and they are parasitizing our civil rights traditions and our pluralistic traditions of tolerance and openness to supplant that tolerance and openness with the hideousness of their Islamic fascism.

There is something lunatic about the Westerners who are convinced that we pose more of a threat to ourselves in our actions to defend ourselves, than those who are sworn to annihilate us. Sadly, the amazing abundance of the West in all of our successes also harbors many people living in delusional fantasies.

Spot on, jsla.

This particular poster along with a few others are long-time trolls and ankle-biters on LGF. They are no different from the Kosz kidz, and all they do is distract and muddle the waters. They even gang up on you if you differ from their libtarded fascist views and get the chief lizard to boot you off.

Some freedom of speech! The libtarded brain-police. The last thing we need here.

jsla-

Your comment WAS to me, because I was the poster who spoke of our Constitutional rights being guaranteed. And FYI- I'm female.

As to the hypocrite "sheik yer mami" whining about smearing- you got yourself banned at LGF with your racist insults that were repeatedly deleted. If you remember (and have any honesty about you) you'll recall that I conversed politely with you on more than one occasion, and had even agreed with you. If you have such a problem, I suggest you scroll past me.

Sharmuta,

Straight from the heart:

Along with Fjordman and Gates of Vienna & Brussels Journal I feel that the Euro's have every right to defend themselves against a massive invasion from Arab-African Muhammedans who destroy the social fabric along with our civilization.

I don't believe that the position for secretary of state should be reserved for an affirmative action person but for a competent person who is up the task.

I believe that the murderous Kosovo and Bosnia provinces amount to a greater Albania, which means a Narco-jihadist state right smack in the middle of Europe, thanks to Clitman and the idiocy of GWB who sux up to the ummah Islamiyah. We have been duped. We bombed the Christian Serbs in order to give birth to an insane construct that will be as unviable as a Palistan.

I believe that appeasement doesn't work and miranda rights for Islamic terrorists cannot continue to be upheld or paid for.

I believe in an total moratorium for Islamic migration to all western nations, and I believe that internment & mass-deportations are inevitable, if we don't want to be assimilated and see our children grow up under Islam.

No, I don't believe we have an obligation to fix every failed state in Africa and Asia with our bleeding taxpayers money.

No, I don't believe that race is an issue at all, because all races can get along and live together as long as they share the same values.

So if you think that makes me a hypocrite so be it. But I saw some of the worst hypocrites among the lizard sycophants, and I don't like it. In fact, most of them, 7 years after 9/11, still cannot figure out what hit them.

I don't think your citizen rights are threatened, but I can see that armies of shysters on the Arab payroll pervert the law to support Gitmo inmates, and the Commander in Chief is willfully clueless about Islamic jihad and goes dancing with the misogynic Arab head-choppers.

You can't make omelette without breaking eggs, and there are things that need to be done to protect our society from Islam, which is far worse than the Nazi's, Communism or any other 'ism.

That's the basic message. These pipe-bombers don't deserve an expensive trial. The should be put in front of a military tribunal in Gitmo and deported either way.

If you take issue with that, then could it be that perhaps you are the hypocrite you are looking for?

Gone fishing, its a beautiful day!

sheik yer mami-

It's very simple- I called you a hypocrite for whining about me smearing you while you sit there and smear me, and distorting my nic to insult me (which is funny since my nic is already an insult). As to the rest of your post- I'm going to to withhold comment for now. See you on other threads sometime. Bye!

Quoth pythagoras:

Those who willingly (and often eagerly) commit atrocities designed to destroy western civilization and exterminate its citizenry are not automatically entitled to the benefits of western civilization.

Those of us who cleave to the Constitution realize that our system is in trouble.  How do we declare war against stateless actors?  How do we recognize something that is more than a criminal conspiracy, but has neither rulers nor borders?  It's like HIV; our legal immune system can't seem to figure out what it is.

Worst of all, the Bush administration has poisoned the well against efforts to correct this.  As the Consitution is the USA's statement of unifying principles, we could and should re-define citizenship to exclude those whose intent is to destroy it.  Ideally, we'd remove the Islamists as Ferdinand and Isabella did.  However, Bush's previous actions have destroyed the credibility of any effort to do such a thing.  Defining peaceful protestors as "terrorists" and putting senators on no-fly lists are actions which should cause immediate impeachment, not promote trust.  The timidity of Congress in the face of unlawful actions suggests that the targets of Bush's warrantless wiretapping were not limited to terrorists, but included efforts to collect blackmail material on the opposition.  Those efforts appear to have been successful; Bush has held his office after going far beyond anything Nixon did, and none other than John Conyers has put impeachment off the table.

The Islamists want unfettered power.  This must be why Bush is so friendly with the Saudis, because he has unerringly sought the same thing.  We can't do anything that would let him exercise it with neither restraint nor oversight, and we can't go about creating any new powers (such as revocation of citizenship and civil rights) whle men such as he are in any position of authority.  We are between Scylla and Charibdis, and there is no safe harbor in sight.

"jsla-

Your comment WAS to me, because I was the poster who spoke... FYI- I'm female."

The poster above apparently has multiple reasons to seethe with feigned indignation.

Telling you that you're wrong, about facts, motivations or the meanings of words themselves, does not imply indignation (feigned or otherwise).

jsla, it looks like you've succumbed to a serious case of groupthink.  Furthermore, you're ignoring some serious historical lessons drawn from the good ol' USA.  I suggest you spend some time reading the Federalist Papers and look at Sharmuta's position in that light.  They won't (I hope) change your perception of the Islamists, but you might start to appreciate that Islamists are not the only dangers we face, and those people trying to tell you about them are not your enemies.