It isn't as if we haven't seen this coming. For years now I have pointed out the shallowness and flimsiness of condemnations of terror by American Islamic groups, and noted that American mosques and schools have no programs to teach against the jihad ideology and Islamic supremacism, as one might have expected them to institute after 9/11 if they really stood where they claimed they stood.
And in 1999, the Naqshbandi Sufi Sheikh Muhammad Hisham Kabbani testified before a State Department open forum that eighty percent of American mosques had extremist leadership. And then there was the January 2005 report from the Center for Religious Freedom, "Saudi publications on Hate Ideology Fill American Mosques" (pdf here).
"Study: 3 in 4 U.S. mosques preach anti-West extremism," from WorldNetDaily (thanks to TCS):
An undercover survey of more than 100 mosques and Islamic schools in America has exposed widespread radicalism, including the alarming finding that 3 in 4 Islamic centers are hotbeds of anti-Western extremism, WND has learned.The Mapping Sharia in America Project, sponsored by the Washington-based Center for Security Policy, has trained former counterintelligence and counterterrorism agents from the FBI, CIA and U.S. military, who are skilled in Arabic and Urdu, to conduct undercover reconnaissance at some 2,300 mosques and Islamic centers and schools across the country.
"So far of 100 mapped, 75 should be on a watchlist," an official familiar with the project said.
Many of the Islamic centers are operating under the auspices of the Saudi Arabian government and U.S. front groups for the radical Muslim Brotherhood based in Egypt.
Frank Gaffney, a former Pentagon official who runs the Center for Security Policy, says the results of the survey have not yet been published. But he confirmed that "the vast majority" are inciting insurrection and jihad through sermons by Saudi-trained imams and anti-Western literature, videos and textbooks.
The project, headed by David Yerushalmi, a lawyer and expert on sharia law, has finished collecting data from the first cohort of 102 mosques and schools. Preliminary findings indicate that almost 80 percent of the group exhibit a high level of sharia-compliance and jihadi threat, including:
* Ultra-orthodox worship in which women are separated from men in the prayer hall and must enter the mosque from a separate, usually back, entrance; and are required to wear hijabs.
* Sermons that preach women are inferior to men and can be beaten for disobedience; that non-Muslims, particularly Jews, are infidels and inferior to Muslims; that jihad or support of jihad is not only a Muslim's duty but the noblest way, and suicide bombers and other so-called "martyrs" are worthy of the highest praise; and that an Islamic caliphate should one day encompass the U.S.
* Solicitation of financial support for jihad.
* Bookstores that sell books, CDs and DVDs promoting jihad and glorifying martyrdom.
Though not all mosques in America are radicalized, many have tended to serve as safe havens and meeting points for Islamic terrorist groups. Experts say there are at least 40 episodes of extremists and terrorists being connected to mosques in the past decade alone.
Some of the 9/11 hijackers, in fact, received aid and counsel from one of the largest mosques in the Washington, D.C., area. Dar al-Hijrah Islamic Center is one of the mosques indentified by undercover investigators as a hive of terrorist activity and other extremism.
It was founded and is currently run by leaders of the Muslim Brotherhood. Imams there preach what is called "jihad qital," which means physical jihad, and incite violence and hatred against the U.S.
Dar al-Hijrah's ultimate goal, investigators say, is to turn the U.S. into an Islamic state governed by sharia law.
Another D.C.-area mosque, the ADAMS Center, was founded and financed by members of the Muslim Brotherhood, and has been one of the top distributors of Wahhabist anti-Semitic and anti-Christian dogma.
Even with such radical mosques operating in its backyard, the U.S. government has not undertaken its own systematic investigation of U.S. mosques....
Which is an ongoing scandal.
And just why do these places of Islamic political agression receive tax exempt status?
All Western democracies have a small window of opportunity, maybe 10-20 years, to deal with this before it is too late.
Advocating Sharia law and Jihad is against the American Constitution.
Those who do so have violated their oath of loyalty to the Constitution and must be held accountable.
Politicians in Washington please take note.
The political elite in the West, are 'comatose' with fear and confusion....
"Terror [fear] leads to confusion [among non-muslims].
Confusion leads to indecision.
Indecision leads to weakness [wrong responses and appeasement].
Weakness leads to political defeat."
http://members.dodo.com.au/~wtt626/comeinpeace.html#2008_-_The_emergence_in_the_UK_of_no-go_areas_for_non-muslims
What i wish to ask the leaders in our Western communities is; Why isn't the Koran & Hadith banned in the West, as being clear sources of incitement, of culture related hatred?
And why are mosques, not closed and banned in the West, and recognised as places where *political* hatred is inculcated, organised, and disseminated, ....among a people who have themselves declared, that they do not wish to integrate into the wider non-muslim community?
Its not rocket science.
Muslims / ISLAMISTS [always] lie, to further their *political* objectives.
Always have, always will.
CORRECTION...
Muslims / ISLAMISTS [always] use deception, denial, and violence [incrementally], to further their *political* objectives.
Always have, always will.
Robert, the more I learn about Islam and its ways, plus the apparent official U.S. refusal to call Islam's bluff, the more depressed I become. Just last week I e-mailed the Saudi Embassy to ask about a May 21, 2006 Washington Post article by Nina Shea that I had just read, titled This is a Saudi textbook. (After the intolerance was removed.) I wanted to know if anything been done about passages such as the following that came from a then current 8th grade Saudi religious textbook?
"God told His Prophet, Muhammad, about the Jews, who learned from parts of God's book [the Torah and the Gospels] that God alone is worthy of worship. Despite this, they espouse falsehood through idol-worship, soothsaying, and sorcery. In doing so, they obey the devil. They prefer the people of falsehood to the people of the truth out of envy and hostility. This earns them condemnation and is a warning to us not to do as they did."
The next day an UNSIGNED reply arrived from the Saudi Embassy:
"Thank you for your e-mail. Updating the teaching materials in Saudi Arabia’s educational system is an ongoing project. I think Nina She (sic) was off base in some of her accusations. Saudi Arabia does not teach its children to hate anyone. I do not think anyone can look at the intimate relationship Saudi Arabia has had with the US for the past 70 years, and say we teach our children to hate these people. Best regards."
I replied to this by asking whoever replied to me to tell me where Ms. Shea was off base, and added,
"I will assume that totally rewriting or deleting passages like the above is part of the 'ongoing project' to remove what any fair minded individual would call hate speech from Saudi Arabian religious textbooks, but the real question, sir, is why rubbish like this was ever taught to Saudi Arabian children in the first place!?
My guess, correct me if I'm wrong, is that this hateful drivel reflects what Wahabbi Islam really and truly believes about Jews, a.k.a., "these people," no matter what Saudi Arabia may say officially to its "friends" in the U.S.
No one is fooled, sir. Many just look the other way because of their need of Saudi oil."
Anonymous at the Saudi Embassy has not replied. I also forwarded all of this to the U.S. Ambassador to Saudi Arabia's office, and guess what? No reply, but I didn't really expect one.....
President Bush has said and repeated ad nauseum that Islam is a religion of peace. When he first said it, many moons ago, I didn't know much about it and was prepared to believe him, but I now know that Bush is either willfully ignorant, or he recognizes the real and present danger that Islam as Islam poses, ESPECIALLY IN ITS WAHABBI STRAIN, but chooses to IGNORE addressing it directly for whatever reasons seem compeling to him as Commander in Chief.
Perhaps he has looked into King Abdullah's eyes and recognized a soulmate like he did with Putin?
Robert, will the next U.S. President be any better than Bush in dealing with this Saudi sown cancer that has been allowed to grow in the U.S. body?
Gee, what happened to that "tiny minority" of Moslems that were the only ones supporting violence? Ah, I know, the authors of this study cherry-picked the mosques to study, selecting only those likely to preach violence. That must be it. 75 or 80 jihadist mosques out of several thousand is still a "tiny minority". Of course, if they'd studied a thousand, they might have found seven or eight hundred jihadist ones, not just 75, but we won't talk about that.
Robert,
Will you please stop with this racist profiling? Yes, Islam is a race, darn it! Why don't you monitor Baptist churches, wherein such evil speach like "love thy neigbour", and "forgive those who upset you" comes forth regularly?!!
STOP THE RACISM!!!
/loonie left winged nutjob
The must be expressing their displeasure-peacefully. Hoping to escape our notice.
LEX said....
"........Just last week I e-mailed the Saudi Embassy to ask about a May 21, 2006 Washington Post article by Nina Shea that I had just read, titled This is a Saudi textbook. (After the intolerance was removed.) I wanted to know if anything been done about passages such as the following that came from a then current 8th grade Saudi religious textbook?........"
Not so very long after 9/11, Saudis [themselves] were being taught 'information' like this.....
September 26, 2002 No. 10
Friday Sermons in Saudi Mosques: Review and Analysis
* Part I - 'The Christians and the Jews are "Infidels," "Enemies of Allah"'
* Part II - 'Jews - The Descendants of Pigs and Apes'
* Part III - 'It is Impossible to Make Peace With the Jews'
* Part IV - 'Muslims Must Educate Their Children to Jihad… and to Hatred of Jews and Christians'
* Part V - 'The Palestinian Struggle Must be An Islamic Jihad'
* Part VI - 'Muslim Women's Rights are a Western Ploy to Destroy Islam'
http://www.memri.org/bin/articles.cgi?Area=sr&ID=SR01002
Also read [below] what the Grand Mufti of Saudi Arabia [in 2006] had to say, on how muslims should conduct Jihad against non-muslims......
Of course, its all 'peace and light', so long as the non-muslims *put themsleves into the power of muslims* [i.e. surrender to ISLAM].
And of course, we can always believe what muslims tell us. /SARC OFF
Creed of the sword
Islam has to accept that its militants find support for violence in their faith's teachings and should pursue reform, writes Mark Durie
September 23, 2006
...the Grand Mufti of Saudi Arabia, Sheikh Abdel Aziz al-Sheikh.
...Saudi Arabia's most senior cleric also explained that war was never Islam's ancient founder, the prophet Mohammed's, first choice: "He gave three options: either accept Islam, or surrender and pay tax, and they will be allowed to remain in their land, observing their religion under the protection of Muslims." Thus, according to the Grand Mufti, the third option of violence against non-Muslims was only a last resort, if they refused to convert or surrender peacefully to the armies of Islam.
http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,20867,20460114-601,00.html
I won't answer for Mr. Spencer but I will suggest that the answer to this specific inquiry is a frank, and curt "no."
Mr. Spencer and staff may of course agree or disagree, but this is the way I see things.
There are many reasons for this not the least of which is the uncomfortable situation one finds themself in if they choose to actually extricate the "Saudi sown cancer that has been allowed to grow in the U.S. body."
Short of forced deportation; closing of mosques; mass round-ups of muslims; and so on, what really could be done?
The fact is that such measures would not only not find support with people like Mr. Spencer and JW, but I dare say that most U.S. citizens would have the stomach for such actions.
So as a practical matter, short of a voluntary exodus of the Saudi's from the U.S. body -- what could be done; especially in light of the fact that they are the preferred and invited guests of the ruling elites in this country?
May I suggest that you not get depressed but rather stay informed.
Realize, that the day will soon come in the US that you will be living under a dhimmi state and that all the things that are happening in Europe will happen in the US soon.
The question then boils down to how you will handle the situation -- converting to islam, paying the jizya, or dying are not options that I personally recommend to you. The alternative is uncomfortable but that is they way it will be.
We are in this precarious situation because of the political will and the monetary interests of our ruling elites, many of whom who mind you, have pulled out their personal fortunes from the U.S. while still in office, and transferred their assests overseas to the Middle East -- guess where.
change:
....that most U.S. citizens would have the stomach for such actions.
to
... that most U.S. citizens would NOT have the stomach for such actions.
I don't think all of our leaders are paralyzed with fear. Bush was willing, and still is, to spend billions of our tax dollars to send the best fighting force in the world into Iraq, like his dad sent into Kuwait, and I don't see him quaking in his boots. It also took a woman to investigate the Stephen Coughlin/Hesham Islam debacle at the Pentagon. Sue Myrick isn't quaking in her boots.
No, there is something more going on here. If we who get up and go to work every day, drive our kids to soccer practice, mow our lawns on the weekend and do another million nit-noid things in this sometimes tedious life can figure it out, so can all the brain surgeons who run the country. The evidence of Muslim agitation is all around us.
I'd also like to know why we must work to eradicate any semblance of Christianity in our country and invoke "separation of church and state" to do so, but Islam, which screams at us that it is a RELIGION of peace gets a free pass? Could it be that Christianity holds us accountable for the things we do and our guilty consciences can't abide it, while Islam is way over there so we can conveniently ignore it?
Why is it that after learning about Islam from this site and others starting four years ago and educating others as to the danger of it, there seems to be MORE Islam, not less? More honor killings happening inside the U.S., more mosques, that stupid minaret in south St. Louis, the scandal in the Pentagon, etc.
I heard a sermon at church a couple of weeks ago that has stayed with me. It actually hit me like a ton of a bricks and I think pertains to this fight we are in. My priest said that evil is not an entity unto itself but rather the lack of virtue or part of a virtue. I've contemplated this in depth and I think this definitely applies to our problems with Islam. We who are of a certain age, if we are honest, remember a time in the past thirty or forty years when everyone didn't do just whatever they wanted. Not everyone scratched every itch and then rationalized why they did it. Kids didn't get caught in the fray as much as they do now and they weren't exposed to innocence destroying agents as much as they are now. Is there something in our own lives that we could clean up that would make this evil in our midst, that comes at us in the form of Islam, diminish, recede and eventually disappear?
I don't think it's a coincidence that Islam is relentless, that it breeds children who hate and teaches it's people the virtue of killing ones self while killing others. That would be the opposite of what little Christian kids are taught...love your neighbor as yourself. Kill your neighbor as yourself? But I think we need to take a look at where we could improve, not because Muslims are so abused and oppressed (what nonsense!) not because they wouldn't be doing this to us if we weren't doing that to them, but as a spiritual protection against what they represent and because we might be being punished and they are the instrument being used.
My priest said that evil is not an entity unto itself but rather the lack of virtue or part of a virtue.
Apparently, your priest does not believe in a literal devil...your Jesus however did and took the time to cast him out at every opportunity according to your Gospels.
...but as a spiritual protection against what they represent and because we might be being punished and they are the instrument being used.
... you however, appear to believe there is a devil.
My observation of 'Christians leadership' in general is that most have become secular and even the most conservative are making sharp-left turns.
As long as they can build "mega-churches" most are "successful" and in their success, have left their followers behind as well as the basic tenets of the founder of their religon.
I have heard many a prayer on various visits. They are passionate, moving, tearful -- yet empty.
islam is not like that it seems.
It is unfortunate that its leaders are answering the "spiritual needs" no matter how nefarious, of islam's followers.
While the Christian leaders are not only "in this world," but are liking that reality so much, that for all practical matters they are in reality "of this world."
Indeed, the devil may jolly well be at work.
another link about David Yer.http://www.kabobfest.com/2007/08/stop-madrassa-coalition-arrest-all.html
I think those commenters who are saying that our leaders know what Islam is all about are absolutely correct.
I have for the last 2 years been trying to convince my friends that what is happening to the west is deliberate attempt to destroy it from both within and without.
Islam is not our only enemy. Marxist-liberals have done far more damage to the west than Islam has. PC, multiculturlism, dragging values down to the lowest levels to edqualise everything and everyone and an unrelenting attack on Christianity and Judaism.
The marxists have a curious ally with global capitalists. Global capitalism is evil. The constant lust for growth means a constant search for new markets and of course, for cheap labour. The marxists bow to this by allowing corporations to employ cheap labour abroad including relocating production to countries such as Poland, and encouraging mass immigration. This fills 2 purposes: 1. Votes for socialist/marxist politicians who use welfare as a carrot and 2. A pool of cheap labour that also keeps down wages of the native workers.
I could go on in some detail but I won't. No doubt many on here will think what I'm saying is crazy. I can't believe what's happening either.
But we are at war against forces who are trying to destroy us. In the UK, we have a very sinister leadership charity called "Common Purpose". I think that similar groups must exist in the US too. Please, watch the following video, see if you can relate or identify with anything that's being said here, especially the "goals and aims of Common Purpose".
"Something is very, very wrong":
http://video.google.co.uk/videoplay?docid=3664960863576873594&q=common+purpose&total=739&start=0&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=0
Would be interested to hear thoughts from people living in the US about this.
Oh, just want to add that the presenter in the video doesn't see the threat posed by Islam - yet.
Isabella The Crusader:
Well said! I remember that time too!
And this has to be the most cogent explanation so far of what has gone wrong, why the kids worship thugs and 'gangstas' and empty-headed celebrities and why our resultant culture is so shallow. And why nobody wants to defend the West and our freedoms, save for a tiny minority, such as Jihadwatch readers and LGF'ers... because said freedoms have led us to this, a moneygrubbing culture with no virtues.
Perhaps that is why the notion that 'islam is the answer' is so attractive to so many, because it offers a form of discipline, although harsh and ultimately self-defeating -- look at life in the countries of the OIC for proof -- the traditional forms of authority have abdicated their responsibility, or have been lost in the sea of commercial crassness. Are we victims of our own hard work and success? Do the kids have it too easy, have too much time on their hands while mom and dad are keeping the machine going?
Food for thought, for sure. I only know enough to know that I don't have the answer.
Britannia's Lion,
It is a truth that politics makes strange bedfellows. Those whom you would think would be on opposite sides can join together even though their goals may be different. Here in the US, Democrats want cheap votes and Republicans want cheap labor. How else to explain the party of law and order supporting lawbreakers and the party of the downtrodden supporting those who would make their current constituents' lives even more difficult? I am not one of those who think you are crazy. You are spot on. I'm sorry I can't watch the video you link to (my dinosaur PC won't let me), can you summarize it? Thanks.
Ezekiel,
Thanks for the links! I just sent an e-mail to scads of folks, subject line: "What do you know about Islam, Saudi Arabia style?" and with the text line: "Read it and weep: http://www.memri.org/bin/articles.cgi?Area=sr&ID=SR01002
witness,
I'm not one to advocate "forced deportation; closing of mosques; mass round-ups of muslims; and so on." Rather, I am all in favor of EXPOSING Islamic source texts as the hate-filled screeds that they are, and SHAMING Muslims into excising the Wahabbi cancer themselves. "Infidels" can't do this for them. Nor is it enough to encourage Muslims to critically examine what they've been taught. They need a viable transcendent truth alternative, a God narrative, if you will, to replace the all-encompassing lie that is Islam.
I don't mind saying that as I see it, authentic Christianity is the ONLY force that can completely defeat Islam, which is why Mohammad's "Jibreel" had to fault Christianity for "corrupting" the Gospels, much as an attacking computer virus first disables the anti-virus software. Do you wonder why Jesus (Isa) would not die by crucifiction in Islam, thereby calling into doubt the Vicarious Atonment? Think about it. THIS is the very heart of spiritual warfare, of kingdom rising against kingdom, as Jesus prophesied would happen, in case any reader didn't know, suspect, or even care.
Isabellathecrusader,
You wrote, "we might be being punished and they are the instrument being used." I've thought that as well, but remember how Jerry Falwell got reamed for daring to say that 911 may have been divine punishment for sexual sins and elective abortion in this country? He may have been right, the libertine left can't honestly say that it KNOWS otherwise, but it surely was utterly un-PC for Falwell to say so. The point is that the Islamic world sees the same moral and ethical corruption that Falwell railed against, and it has developed its own ways of innoculating itself against the perceived "infection," as we've all been discovering to our shock and outrage.
It stands to reason that the collapse of a life and marriage affirming Christianity as a bulwark against Islam would lead to the present state of affairs, especially in Europe which abandoned Christianity some time ago. The U.S. hangs in the balance.
"I call heaven and earth to witness against you today, that I have set before you life and death, the blessing and the curse. So choose life in order that you may live, you and your descendants." Deuteronomy 30:19
Islam is not our only enemy.
Posted by: Britannia's Lion at February 24, 2008 10:02 AM
My only point of disagreement Lion. islam is not only your enemy, but it wants you dead.
Other than this fine point, I tend to agree with your thesis.
justiceforme,
I would be most appreciative if you would return to the "Court Favored Islam" thread and answer the simple "yes" or "no" question I've posed at the end.
Thank you.
justiceforme-
thank you for a a fascinating look at an intellectual pretzel factory.
This study offers further confirmation of the Freedom House Report
"Saudi Publications on Hate Ideology Fill American Mosques,"
http://www.danielpipes.org/article/2384
As I said, none in the west dares advocates such things, yet such actions taken in muslim countries against Jews or Christians is a non-issue; it is expected -- no, demanded.
Unlike Christianity for example there is no viable "liberal" element in islam that can shame muslims into excising wahabbism. In fact, wahabbism is pure islam and in keeping with the tenets of the religon.
In Christianity you see "reform" all the time from liberal theologans. Most don't even believe the basic articles of faith taught by Jesus himself; they embrace things like evolution for example which completely undermines the Pauline doctrine and nullifies the entire thesis that Jesus himself offered as reason for his purposes.
You see no such liberalisation whatsoever in islam and where it does appear, it is quickly snuffed out.
For most Christian theologans "truth" has become "relative truth" for example is evil the result of an intity -- "devil" -- that could be literally 'cast out' by a real Jesus; or is it merely the idea, virtue, relative value that is "evil."
There are no such discussions in islam.
I don't believe it will be reformed, perhaps I am wrong, but I don't think so.
Maybe the only force that can defeat islam is the force that can trump mohammad himself -- the Jew from Bethlahem that you call Jesus?
Ha, no wonder muslim's hate Jews!
Islam is focused. Islam is one. The Ummah is wherever muslims are. The only difference between muslims in the US and muslims in Europe, and elsewhere, are bodies of water. Islam is a closed system. It is already perfect, so nothing needs to be changed or altered. To do so admits imperfection.
Imperfection makes a weak case for supremacy.
Besides to admit Islamic imperfection is a major slap in the face to Allah. It means that Allah did not get it quite right. What's that you say??? You must be some kind of Islamophobe!!! Allah in all his perfectness, has decreed that perfect muslims, conduct jihad perfectly, against imperfect non believers, until they perfectly bow to perfection.
The sincere and perfectly Holy Saudi, is acting perfectly in his perfect understanding of what his perfect god Allah wants done perfectly.
Everything is becoming perfectly clear.
Thinking that hard gave me a headache. I am going into my meditation bubble, and consume coffee while I contemplate my navel. I am the worlds only swami who can consume coffee, contemplate my navel, and whistle Dixie at the same time...
You think that's easy huh? Well try it and see...
You think that's easy huh? Well try it and see...
perfect ... sort of....
witness,
It's clear to me at least that the lying spirit "Jibreel," (a.k.a., Gabriel, whose testimony is flatly contradicted by the angel Gabriel whose words to Mary are recorded in Luke's infancy narrative) found a most useful idiot in Mohammad, who gladly aided and abetted the establishment of hell's alternative to Christianity, in every particular!
For instance, Islam expects the appearance of al-Mahdi, (the Anti-Christ) who will be served by Isa returned (the false prophet) and that barely scratches the surface of the anti-parallels between Islam and Christianity. Read more here
Yes, liberal Christians have relativized revealed truth, or recast it entirely as metaphor (the "miracle" of the loaves was simply the willingness of so many strangers to share their secret stashes of bread, you see?), which is why they are no help at all to those who are under spiritual assault by Islam's forces of darkness, a.k.a., unclean and evil spirits. Jesus cast out such creatures with a word, but who does so today? It may very well be that lots of folks are guilty, as Paul derided it, of "Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away." 2 Timothy 3:5
Top Muslim organizations in the United States were swift to condemn the attacks on 9/11 and called "upon Muslim Americans to come forward with their skills and resources to help alleviate the sufferings of the affected people and their families". Top organizations include: Islamic Society of North America, American Muslim Alliance, American Muslim Council, Council on American-Islamic Relations, The Islamic Circle of North America, and the Shari'a Scholars Association of North America. In addition to massive monetary donations, many Islamic organizations launched blood drives and provided medical assistance, food, and residence for victims. The great majority of Muslim political and religious leaders condemned the attacks. Islamic jurist and scholar Khaled Abou Al-Fadl writes "...Furthermore, hijacking methods of transportation or crucifying people in order to spread fear and terror are also crimes of hiraba. Importantly, Islamic law strictly prohibited the taking of hostages, the mutilation of corpses, and torture." Even in Iran, one of the most anti-American states in the world, a minute of silence was held. For many of us, one of the most disturbing images 9/11 has been that of the celebration of a few Palestinian youths after the tragedy. This is to reinforce the assertion that celbration for the attacks was widespread. Closer examination has revealed that that celebration was in fact a VERY limited phenomenon, limited to a few Palestinian individuals. Almost everybody the Muslim world has expressed grief and outrage over the tragedy. The terrorist act was strongly condemned by every single Palestinian organization including Fatah, the Democratic Front for the Liberation of Palestine, the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine, Hamas, Workers Unions and Committees, Human Right organizations (AlHaq, Law, Palestine Center for Human Rights), student associations, municipalities, mosques and churches, etc. The US Consul General in Jerusalem reported that he has received a huge stack of faxes from Palestinians and Palestinian organizations expressing condolences, grief and solidarity. He himself was pained to see that the media chose to focus on the sensational images of a few Palestinians rejoicing. Jerusalem University students, along with the President of the University and the Deans of the various Faculties, began a blood donation drive in East Jerusalem. Students and professors went to hospitals in order to donate blood for the American victims who need it. In Iran, Tehran's main soccer stadium observed an unprecedented minute's silence in sympathy with the victims. Iran's Ayatollah Imami Kashani spoke of a catastrophic act of terrorism which could only be condemned by all Muslims, adding the whole world should mobilize against terrorism.
Source: http://groups.colgate.edu/aarislam/response.htm#Expressions%20of%20grief%20and%20sympathy%20in%20the%20Arab%20and%20Muslim%20world:
Furthermore, In 2006, Imam Khaleel Mohammed (yes, he’s an Imam), an associate professor of Religion at San Diego State University said that “95% of contemporary Muslims are exposed to anti-Semitic teachings, beginning between the ages of 5 and 8. And we know that things learned at this stage of life become ingrained, almost to the point of being in one's DNA.” In a 2004 interview, Professor Khaleel said that Qur’an 5:21 says that Israel belongs to the Jews: “(Moses said): 'O my people! Enter the Holy Land which God has written for you, and do not turn tail, otherwise you will be losers.” The relationships between Jews and Muslims have been defined by Israel-Arab relations, which are not exactly good. It's important to note, however, that Islamic anti-Semitism is a fairly recent phenomenon.
Memo to bush:
Study concludes "3 in 4 U.S. mosques preach anti-West extremism."
Memo from Bush:
Editor:
Change title to, "3 in 4 U.S. mosques misunderstand the Koran."
"Ultra-orthodox worship in which women are separated from men in the prayer hall and must enter the mosque from a separate, usually back, entrance; and are required to wear hijabs."
With all due respect to the authors of this report and the importance of their findings, to note this in particular as a sign of extremism is as deluded as can be. Virtually every mosque, everywhere, observes gender-segregation during worship and virtually every observant Muslim woman, everywhere, wears hijab. Many do so because they see fit to, and would rather wear it than not. That doesn't mean they're oppressed.
Forcing the hijab on the woman who desires not to wear one, as per Aqsa Parvez or Amina & Sarah, yes, that we must fight. The mere wearing of the hijab? The social expectation that the hijab be worn while a woman is showing reverence to God, extremist? No. I do feel that an environment should be created where a Muslim woman should feel free to show her hair in public; outward appearance is not the guarantor of the purity of the heart. But we shouldn't demonize the hijab as some sort of beastly tool of oppression. The burqa is a different story.
As for gender segregation during worship, I don't agree with it, but the custom itself is no more worthy of condemnation than are similar practices among Orthodox Jews. Don't get me wrong, Islam as taught at present is infinitely more likely than Orthodox Judaism is to inspire violence and/or bigotry, owing to the literal words of the texts and the bigoted interpretations of said texts; but we will get nowhere if we assume that every last Islamic practice or every last Muslim's deed, anywhere, is an act of war against us. That's retarded.
"Change title to, "3 in 4 U.S. mosques misunderstand the Koran."- sheik yer booty
Lol, so true. Anas reported that the Muhammad said: Search knowledge though it be in China. (Baihaqi)
Non-Muslims and extremists Muslims alike would be surprised to learn that early Islam and the Islam of the Islamic Golden Age encouraged cooperation and mutual understanding between Islam and other societies.
sigh. I usually just lurk here, but the bellicose statements posted demand something other than silence.
Instead of discussing what can be done to encourage and nurture the 1 in 4 American mosques that do not advocate islamic supremacism, you are declaring WWIII.
One in four is not a shoddy base for building an American Reformed Islam that could become a beacon for the world. That can't happen if non-muslims insist that the only form of Islam worth discussing is the violent 7th century that prevails in so much of the rest of the world.
The "flimsiness" of reformist Islam's response to terror has a lot to do with a lack of true allies. When they speak out, they're going to catch flack from their fellow muslims and from y'all too. No wonder they are quiet.
We're supposed to be the rational West, remember?
"The relationships between Jews and Muslims have been defined by Israel-Arab relations, which are not exactly good. It's important to note, however, that Islamic anti-Semitism is a fairly recent phenomenon."
-- from a Muslim apologist above
Nonsense, of course, that overlooks, or rather attempts to convince Infidels to overlook, 1350 years of anti-Infidel history, including a textually based antisemitism that differs in some of its aspects from the kind exhibited historically in Western Christendom.
The assertion that "[t]he relationships between Jews and Muslims have been defined by Israel-Arab relations, which are not exactly good," states things backwards. The reason that Israel-Arab "relations" are "not exactly good" is because Arabs, Muslims (and islamochristians), prompted by Islamic doctrines, cannot bear to contemplate, and will never (as long as they remain so prompted), willingly acquiesce in, the permanent existence of the Infidel nation-state of Israel, one that exists on territory once possessed by Islam, and furthermore, in a place that interrupts the land-mass of what they see as the "Arab lands" or "Arab world." To summarize: the fact that "Israel-Arab relations [that are 'not good']" has not caused Muslim antisemitism. It is Islamic doctrines, about Infidels in general, and about Jews, a subset of those Infidels, in particular -- that is, Islamic antisemitism -- that has caused those Israel-Arab relations to be, in the past, in the present, and in a future which is perfectly foreseeable, "not good."
Instead of discussing what can be done to encourage and nurture the 1 in 4 American mosques that do not advocate islamic supremacism, you are declaring WWIII.
skevin,
What would you have us do? Our president has been calling Islam a religion of peace even though Islam continues to call for the destruction of this country and continues to plan and devise new ways of killing people who were doing nothing to hurt them (unless you consider refusing to acknowledge allah a valid reason for war). What are those 1 in 4 mosques doing ON THEIR OWN? What are Muslims in this country, who should have full understanding of what this country stands for doing to expose Islamic jihadists IN THEIR OWN MOSQUES? The answer: NOT ENOUGH. Are they collecting money for jihadist operations or are they working to expose them. We have held our fire for more than six years. We are still waiting for them to prove their own sincerity. It hasn't come.
You aren't concerned that seventy five percent of these mosques preach:
* Sermons that preach women are inferior to men and can be beaten for disobedience; that non-Muslims, particularly Jews, are infidels and inferior to Muslims; that jihad or support of jihad is not only a Muslim's duty but the noblest way, and suicide bombers and other so-called "martyrs" are worthy of the highest praise; and that an Islamic caliphate should one day encompass the U.S.
Why aren't you incensed that this is happening in the first place?
PMK:
Thanks for your comments, glad you don't think I'm crazy!
OK, I'll try and give a brief summary.
The presenter is an ex-leutennant in the Royal Navy. He asserts that Britain is being attacked by insurgents from within, especially Common Purpose.
CP is a charity that creates "modern leaders". However, it receives millions of pounds of government money and it is also selective, meaning only those who CP designate as "suitable" will be allowed to take CP courses which cost the student from £5000 to £20,000.
So what I hear you say. The problem is that CP "graduates" are in all levels of local government and senior government, in our schools and universities, our media and our schools and universities. None of this has been revealed to the public.
A lot of evidence is then produced - names, letters, fraudulent accounts but also, that people who are being paid by taxpayers in government are engaged in CP activities during their normal working day.
There is also an official CP document produced listing CP objectives namely the abolition of the UK as it becomes just another region in the EU.
That's about the gist of it PMK, but the video has much more detail and of course, a lot of evidence is produced including correspondence he has entered into with various people in all levels of local government.
The word I used to describe CP is sinister and with good reason. Would be great if readers from the US can maybe draw any parallels with what's going on in the US?
Something isn't right in the UK though, that much is for sure.
PMK~
I believe in American Exceptionalism.
That means that we can do anything we set our minds to, including using our rage at the 7th century to constructively forge the twenty first.
I'm gay, so it's kinda easy. I attend monthly "habibis" in Manhattan.
http://www.myspace.com/nychabibi
http://www.izmix.com
So far, I've not heard any talk of jihad while people are cheering male belly dancers!
I also sit in on gay muslim discussions at the Gay Community Center on 13th Street. Trust me, These people long ago abandoned the caliphate. They actually speak of regarding an islamic identity as secondary to a "brown" one.
I don't want to get into theology here, but let's just say there are more approaches to the utility of scripture than some literalist singularity.
I'm not stupid or limp wristed. I know there are many real 1400 year old dangers called Islam.
It's still better to light a candle than to curse the darkness, even when it's pitch black outside.
The purpose of JW & DW is to alert people to the dangers of Lesser Jihad. Consider me alerted. I just believe in seeking out reformist muslims and supoporting them however I can.
They're out there. And my country is the last best hope for them.
PMK~
I believe in American Exceptionalism.
That means that we can do anything we set our minds to, including using our rage at the 7th century to constructively forge the twenty first.
I'm gay, so it's kinda easy. I attend monthly "habibis" in Manhattan.
http://www.myspace.com/nychabibi
http://www.izmix.com
So far, I've not heard any talk of jihad while people are cheering male belly dancers!
I also sit in on gay muslim discussions at the Gay Community Center on 13th Street. Trust me, These people long ago abandoned the caliphate. They actually speak of regarding an islamic identity as secondary to a "brown" one.
I don't want to get into theology here, but let's just say there are more approaches to the utility of scripture than some literalist singularity.
I'm not stupid or limp wristed. I know there are many real 1400 year old dangers called Islam.
It's still better to light a candle than to curse the darkness, even when it's pitch black outside.
The purpose of JW & DW is to alert people to the dangers of Lesser Jihad. Consider me alerted. I just believe in seeking out reformist muslims and supporting them however I can.
They're out there. And my country is the last best hope for them.
This answers a question. How many radicals in the US? 75% lean radical. So now could we all start saying: "Islam is a 25% religion of peace".
Folks, your government won't fix this. Votes are more important than security and continuation of the republic. As a matter of fact, it's easier to pass the problem along to the next generation.
Don't forget, for every immigrant who can someday vote, the Dems see that as one new Democratic vote.
The great "melting pot" will soon be the "pot melting" if something does not substantially change in America soon and in all the west.
skevin...Looks like you are keeping company with apostates or near apostates, which is apostate enough. I don't object to this. I would like to see more muslims slipping out, even if it is slow.
I don't think the purpose of JW is limited to exposing the 'lesser jihad', but jihad, itself, it's scriptural justifications, and jihad actions required, and accomplished.
If you have some doubts about the veracity
of Roberts Islamic research, and you think yours is superior, you should take that up with him.
Don't just drop that vague idea of superiority, without backing it up with something.
There is nothing 'lesser' about this.
The code of denying homosexuality, harsh punishments for getting caught, or even accused, ought to chill a gay person to the bone. I don't think they have any Gay Community Centers in Saudi Arabia or Iran.
And they are representative, God help a gay man who falls into the hands of the Taliban in Afghanistan.
What is the difference between a good muslim in America, and a good muslim in Afghanistan?
Sounder sez: Don't forget, for every immigrant who can someday vote, the Dems see that as one new Democratic vote.
That's true, except what they don't see is that an Islamic vote is not a vote for democracy, but for Allah and Islam. They will eventually take over by 'vote jihad'. Elect more and more muslims to office, use the American way to destroy the American way. Using democracy to destroy democracy. The dems who helped them to power, will be the first to be destroyed by that power...suckers.
LEX said....
"Robert, the more I learn about Islam and its ways, plus the apparent official U.S. refusal to call Islam's bluff, *the more depressed I become*......."
Firstly, the 'fight' in IRAQ....
US soldiers *are trained* to fight and defeat *other soldiers*.
But now, in IRAQ, US soldiers are being asked to perform a 'policing action', ....*not* to fight a war 'action'.
Soldiers are trained to fight [other soldiers in] wars.
But how can soldiers fight an enemy [criminals], *when they cannot identify them*?
It is difficult enough for policemen to fight wily criminals.
So, how can soldiers fight 'criminals', when they are not trained to do so?
They can't.
Not effectively.
The same principal applies to mainland USA [and elsewhere, and in all non-muslim nations, everywhere ISLAM seeks *political* encroachment].
How can we fight deception, and denial, and violence [which are the methods ISLAM uses to assail its victims, its 'spiritual' enemy].
And how can we fight an enemy which declares that it is a 'religion', when we have been taught to revere polite 'holy' men?
The problem is though, muslims are not what they claim, i.e. muslims are not polite 'holy' men.
Muslims are dark 'spiritual' *criminals*.
And we are spiritually asleep, and THIS is why ISLAM is winning, and we are losing this 'spiritual' struggle.
Today, we have no 'discernment'.
Wake up people...
ISLAM is not a 'religion', in the sense that non-muslims understand the word, 'religion', .....ISLAM is a cult of *political* tyranny, masquerading as a religion.
And ISLAM is not so much a 'religion', as a fractured 'Mafia gang' bent on gaining exclusive influence over all of the 'local turf'.
ISLAM's repertoire [in 'engaging' non-muslims]....is deception, denial, and violence.
.....these are the tactics in the 'House of War' [dar-al Harb] i.e. dar-al Harb is *everywhere* ISLAM / Sharia does not rule.
The USA, Europe, the West, are at this time cursed by God, because we have forsaken his righteousness in our lives.
Our hearts have departed from God, and his righteousness.
I am not kidding.
Look at this world, 2008.
Something is very, very, wrong here.
Today in this world, we are told that, black is white, and white is black.
Up is down, and down is up.
TRUTH is 'hate'.
And hate, is 'TRUTH'.
So how can we fight against the spiritual darkness, which is ISLAM?
Personally, i would suggest to all people with a good heart everywhere, *who are depressed* by this war with ISLAM, to start reading your Bible [KJV] privately [and often], and *pray to God*.
Again, i am not kidding.
Luke 21:26
Men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken.
Muslims spiritually, are much stronger than ourselves.
ISLAM is a spiritual 'darkness', and we in the West refuse to see it in those terms.
Today, we [most non-muslims] are a spiritually blinded people.
That is why we are losing this spiritual war with *political* ISLAM.
Ephesians 6:10
¶Finally, my brethren, be strong in the Lord, and in the power of his might.
11 Put on the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil.
12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.
13 Wherefore take unto you the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand.
14 Stand therefore, having your loins girt about with truth, and having on the breastplate of righteousness;
15 And your feet shod with the preparation of the gospel of peace;
16 Above all, taking the shield of faith, wherewith ye shall be able to quench all the fiery darts of the wicked.
17 And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God:
To prevail against ISLAM we need to be strong, in the spirit of God.
We need to be strong, in the spirit of TRUTH.
1 Samuel 2:9
He will keep the feet of his saints, and the wicked shall be silent in darkness; for by strength shall no man prevail.
Jeremiah 17:5
¶Thus saith the LORD; Cursed be the man that trusteth in man, and maketh flesh his arm, and *whose heart departeth from the LORD*.
As ancient Israel was, so are we all today...
Daniel 9:11
Yea, all Israel have transgressed thy law, even by departing, that they might not obey thy voice; therefore *the curse* is poured upon us, and *the oath* that is written in the law of Moses the servant of God, because we have sinned against him.
swami~
I don't deny the veracity of RS's research, tho I do take exception to his occasional snarkiness. I just arrive at my own conclusions about what to do about such findings.
BTW: there IS a thriving Gay center in Beirut, of all places. (they have Goth Habbibis on Halloween) There are also lots of men risking their lives to cruise gay e-mail groups in Jiddah and Mecca.
Just a thought: If I march in a Stonewall celebration in Jerusalem, Israel (pace Hasbro), I am in far more danger of being stabbed by a rabbi than an imam. It's a matter of record.
Fundamentalism sucks.
A Muslim apologist above would like us all to believe that Muslim organizations (and, by extension) Muslims in America, all deplored -- deeply, truly, madly -- the 9/11/2001 attacks. One of his authorities is Khaled Abou El Fadl, about whom readers may wish to find out more by consulting
Fitzgerald: MESA NOSTRA: Scholar of the House Khaled Abou El Fadl
at
http://www.jihadwatch.org/archives/005615.php
intimate relationship Saudi Arabia has had with the US for the past 70 years in the end.This is the problem with these Saudi Arabians paying millions of dollars in speaking fees. To retired politicians. And they're not going to bite the hand that feeds them a large retirement check
Why are these people in our country?
What a wonderful and thought provoking thread.
First for comment; as Hugh pointed out and I will add you are full of it. You are six years and counting late. There was none of the altruistic sympathy express by any Islamic organization in the country or any where at the time. There were no donation of blood, money and sympathy. Granted the MSM tends to only show the blood on the street to sell news but it was not a minority that was cheering after 9/11. As I recall public officials and the media were all reporting or condemning any attacks on muslims in the county. I don't recall if there were any, there may have been, but if there were it was a minority or your so call minority of cheering muslims.
I will tell you what happen (on a small scale) in my neighborhood at the time. This occurred just a couple of weeks after 9/11. I local liberal church contacted a small local group of mulsims. Their intent was to show that no one was against them and suggested that we meet and talk about the events of 9/11. I had very little knowlege of Islam but I am a Christian and wanted to hear what might be said at the meeting. Everything was cordial and both sides spoke in reassuring tones. I did ask why there had been no out cry but the muslims in the middle east or in the country and was met with blank stares and shaking head. The attempt of the meeting was misguided because it was based upon the assumption that they were innocent and harm may come to them as a retaliation of 9/11 (which never happened).
All of this concern expressed by the Islamic community is 'taqiyya'. We have six years of proof to that effect. By this I mean every time someone crosses their eyes at Islam, these societies pull the victim card and scream racism. You need to say something completely different for me the buy it. Here is a suggestion, Islam is the problem starting at its core teaching in the Koran. Or confess that it is not the religion of peace.
As far as LEX statement. I have heard reports of a move to unify Mexico, the US and Canada into something like the EU. There was something passed or allowed were Mexican trucks can cross our borders and drive on specific highways all the way to Canada and were under the sovereignty of Mexican. I may not have the facts completely correct. I also heard last week that Bush authorized 500 million to Mexico to help strength its southern borders. Note souther not norther. This may be somewhat related to your observation across the pond. I do agree that there are forces at work other that the main topic of the blog.
I also come from a basic spiritual POV and realize that the best antidote to Islam are the claims of Christ as spoken of in the Bible. It is not a mystery and for the last 2000 years He has been influencing society and men. But as men turn away they will be open to any number of false and dangerous ideas.
John 3:19
Light has come into the world, but men loved darkness instead of light because their deeds were evil.
يوحنا 3:19
لقد حان الخفيفه في العالم ، ولكن الرجل يحب الظلام بدلا من الضوء لان افعالهم هي الشر
Why should anybody be surprised? The Koran teaches violence to overcome those who don't believe
Just a reminder, due to comments on this and other threads: This is a non-sectarian site. Please refrain from proselytizing.
Unfortunately, I am not able to find the place in either the quaran or the hadith where the gay lifestyle that you speak of is endorsed.
Unfortuantely too, the issue is theology and it really doesn't matter if we like that reality or not.
What was said and taught by historical figure remains fixed and immutable. We must choose to either accept or reject them at face value; to do otherwise means simply we must invent our own theology.
On that note -- good luck.
"Three out of four dentists agree" was a clever phrase dreamed up by Madison Avenue to dramatize end enliven an otherwise drab sounding pronouncement such as "the vast majority of dentists agree" or the wooden sounding "most dentists agree". In any event, the phrase "three out of four dentists agree" conveys the undeniable fact that a solid majority of dentists agree on something, and if they agree, then you agree should too.
Three out of four American mosques apparently agree, a vast majority of Muslims agree, most Muslims agree, then, that Islam is an insurrectionist war doctrine, and that Jihad must be waged. Why are the tiny minority of Muslims, and the vast majority of Westerners still the only ones adhering to the lie that Islam is all about terror and horribleness? It sometimes appears that we Westerners are attempting to be the Protestants of Islam, the Islamic reformers, without even belonging to the hideous "religion" we're attempting to protest, and attempting to "reform". How absurd is that?
Clearly a great majority of Muslims are fascists, for we haven't heard this startling revelation of so-called "radicalization" in mosques from the Muslims quarter, have we? Where are all the supposedly "moderate" Muslims who've supposedly attended these Mosques who've then turned the so-called "radicals" into the authorities? We haven't heard a peep from the Muslim community about exactly how extremist the vast majority of them clearly are -- all we've heard from the so-called "moderates" is how "moderate" Islam is, and how terrorism, violence, and the preaching of hatred has nothing to do with Islam. What liars they all are.
"3 in 4 U.S. mosques preach anti-Western jihadist hate"
I'm reminded once again of a story that I've shared before on this forum about a time when my husband asked two of our former Muslim employees [when we used to own a fire/flood restoration company in Encino, California]; when he asked these two guys what sorts of things were discussed in their Mosques. And I'll never forget their response to my husbands question, because it gave me chills up and down my spine: "Ahh - you don't want to know!!" Accompanied by an eerie sort of chuckle.
Believe when I say that he was serious, and he couldn't have been more adament, nor did he want to offer any specific details about what was said even when asked a second time. He simply repeated himself by saying, "You don't want to know."
Little did I know that that single comment 3 years ago would later fuel my anger & active participation with Jihad Watch and with warning those I know about this threat known as: ISLAM.
Islam be gone!!
jsla said.....
"......Why are the tiny minority of Muslims, and the vast majority of Westerners still the only ones adhering to the lie that Islam is all about terror and horribleness?......"
/SARC OFF jsla
Yes? :)
"We don't make a distinction between civilians and non-civilians,
innocents and non-innocents.
Only between Muslims and unbelievers.
And the life of an unbeliever has no value.
It has no sanctity."
direct quote....Sheikh Omar Bakri Muhammad
quote cited from here...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Omar_Bakri_Mohammed#Quotes
and here...
Attack on London 'inevitable'
April 19, 2004
http://www.theage.com.au/articles/2004/04/19/1082326119414.html?from=storyrhs&oneclick=true
Britannia's Lion,
Thanks for the info. I appreciate it.
CP looks to be worth further scrutiny.
Great, just what the doctor ordered. A gay liberal lecturing everyone about how the west is the great hope for Islam.
Except the imams in the UK are saying and I quote:
"All gays should be thrown off mountain-tops and executed for insulting Allah."
Who shall we listen to - the liberal gay or the Islamic imam?
Here's the deal: If you tolerate Islam, you tolerate evil. I differ greatly with Robert Spencer on this for one very good reason:
The prophet Mohammed is evil incarnate. F-A-C-T. Anyone who believes in this monster tolerates evil - end of errand. I.e: There is no such thing as a good muslim. Good people don't worship paedophiles, murderers and torturers, do you get this?
WAKE UP. You are either against evil or you tolerate it. There's no liberal, do-goody, sugary-sweet middle ground here. WE ARE AT WAR WITH EVIL.
Choose your side and fight for your cause. If you can't, then ask yourself what the hell you are about as a human being.
I know what I'm about and I know what I'm prepared to fight and die for. How about you?
And here, muslim *sincerity* toward [the naive] the 'guilty' [non-muslims], is on display in the UK....
"......In *public* interviews Bakri condemned the killing of all innocent civilians.
Later when he addressed *his own followers* he explained that he had in fact been referring only to Muslims as only they were innocent:
“Yes I condemn killing any innocent people, but not any kuffar.” "
Sheikh Omar Bakri Muhammad
Speaking publicly, and then privately, regarding the London 7/7 bombing victims.
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/article552594.ece
"...when we say innocent people, we mean muslims."
"...if you are a muslim, then you are innocent in the eyes of God. If you are a non-muslim, then you are guilty of not believing in God."
"...as a muslim....i must have hatred towards everything which is non-ISLAM."
Anjem Choudary
UK muslim *community leader*, talks of the London 7/7 bombing victims
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=maHSOB2RFm4
skevin,
You won't be able to cheer male belly dancers if the jihadists have their way. Your friends don't care about the caliphate. They aren't the ones you should worry about.
You sound like so many people of good will all over the world. Most of us go along to get along. We haven't been threatened by Muslims and those we know are good people. They are not the ones we have to worry about.
It sounds like you know the 25 percent who are good. What about the other 75 percent? I doubt they believe in anything that you or I believe in, especially the dignity of man. They won't let you live in peace. Pretending they aren't there won't make them go away. You are the one in the darkness. People are trying to light the way for you to see the danger that lies ahead. You would rather keep your eyes closed. If that's enough to make you happy, great.
When ignorance is bliss, 'tis folly to be wise.
"The prophet Mohammed is evil incarnate. F-A-C-T. Anyone who believes in this monster tolerates evil - end of errand. I.e: There is no such thing as a good muslim. Good people don't worship paedophiles, murderers and torturers, do you get this?
WAKE UP. You are either against evil or you tolerate it. There's no liberal, do-goody, sugary-sweet middle ground here. WE ARE AT WAR WITH EVIL."
posted by Britannia's Lion
Go Lion!! I agree with what you said word-4-word!
Muslims would be rioting over the content of this article if Islam were truely a religion of peace, but since it is imperialistic and evil at its core they riot over cartoons, while hush hushing about the truth, which is contained here.
IMHO the moderate Muslim is a 'myth', because you are either with Islam, or against Islam, there is no middle ground. No where else can you have these "supposed" middle grounders but in Islamaland. It's a false premise.
I cannot think of a single organization, whether it's considered a good organization, or an evil organization, where claiming to be in-the-middle would be acceptable to those IN the organization. No way. You are either in, or you are out. Only in La-La-Land does such a lie exist.
If you are a Muslim, you are either a terrorist, or yor are in COLLUSION with the terrorists. I don't subscribe to this idea that there are moderate Muslims, that there is some sort of middle ground. Impossible!
skevin,
There is no 'moderate' ISLAM.
888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888
'Moderate' ISLAM is a mythical creature which *only* flourishes in *non-muslim* nations.
888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888
Nothing about ISLAM is, 'moderate'.
Nothing.
To examine the evidence [of what ISLAM is], and then for a non-muslim person to maintain that there is 'a moderate ISLAM', is delusional.
Anyone who is a 'nice', non-violent person, who calls himself a 'muslim', is in fact an *apostate* muslim.
I'll say it again, such is in fact an *apostate* muslim.
Such a person, is *not* a muslim.
People who would try to promote ISLAM to you as something different, as a 'religion', or as peaceful, are either deluded, or they are purposely LYING TO YOU.
Look at the evidence in the world.
Its not rocket science.
ISLAMIC doctrine on apostates.....
The Koran instructs muslims, to take no apostates as friends. And when they oppose you [in Allah's way], kill them. [i.e. ex-muslims, are non-muslims!]
http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/quran/004.qmt.html#004.088 & 89
The Hadith instructs muslims, "...If somebody (a Muslim) discards his religion, kill him." [comment... ex-muslims are, just more 'non-muslims' to hate, and kill]
http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/fundamentals/hadithsunnah/bukhari/052.sbt.html#004.052.260
Very true, Ezekiel.
As much as I believe this information to be true, it needs to be evaluated/verified by an organization that does not have a specific agenda.
The idiotarians will simply label this think tank study another neoconservative propaganda machine for the yada yada yada yada
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Center_for_Security_Policy
and continue to avoid/ignore the issue at hand. At their own peril, of course.
justiceforme,
Still waiting for that response. For your convenience, here is the link to the thread
http://www.jihadwatch.org/archives/020045.php#comments
It is a really simple question, actually, but I believe it is pivotal to how the case is perceived by us simple lay folk. Please put our minds at ease.
Britannia: We yanks have been assimilating all sorts of people for over 400 years. Y'all could learn something from us. Also, I respectfully paraphrased Ronald Reagan ("last best hope"), and identified myself with American Exceptionalism. This makes me a liberal? Bite my dust.
PMK: I see both danger and hope. 25% is almost half way to 51%. I simply think that on an interpersonal basis, working to increase the percentage in my favor is a workable strategy. Pounding my keyboard in rage is not.
Ezikiel: I said "reformist", not "moderate". You have a point. Luther and Calvin did not lead a Protestant Moderation. (We'll speak of King James some other time. I'm a Douai man.)
Britannia's Lion,
You said that one of CP's objectives is "the abolition of the UK as it becomes just another region in the EU."
On this side of the Atlantic we have the North American Union, aka the Peace and Prosperity Partnership. The objective is the unification of Canada, Mexico and the US. NAFTA has created a giant free trade zone. NAU supposedly seeks a political union, similar to the EU.
We are dealing with the Trans-Texas Corridor, a giant highway meant to enable commercial traffic from Mexico. The idea is that ships would dock in Mexico and that the imported goods would be transferred to the US by Mexican trucks. Current law restricts Mexican truck drivers to a radius of about twenty-five miles from the border. They must drop their load and return to Mexico. New rules would require the US to allow the Mexican trucks to travel anywhere in the US.
These rules would remove still more jobs from the US. Longshoremen would lose work because the ships would dock in Mexico and American truckers would be undercut by foreign drivers.
We are told this is a conspiracy theory and is not real, that we won't lose our sovereignty.
http://www.eagleforum.org/topics/NAU/
skevin,
pretending the problem doesn't exist won't make it go away. The world you believe in simply doesn't exist and you won't bring it about by ignoring those who threaten us. I hope you don't learn that the hard way.
skevin said,
"......We yanks have been assimilating all sorts of people for over 400 years........"
Show me some place where muslims have been 'assimilated' leaving the original culture intact?
Internal ISLAMIC *creed* insists that ISLAM must be *the* dominant culture, problem is, ISLAM also insists assimilating / destroying all co-cultures!
e.g. My 'proof' assimilating muslims / ISLAM is *not* possible [lots more examples available :) ].....
".....When Napoleon invaded Egypt, he discovered that the Muslim population knew nothing about Egypt before Islam. The 5,000-year-old culture of the Pharaohs had been annihilated. There are no Buddhists in Afghanistan. Baghdad was once home to the oldest community of Jews in the world, brought there as Babylonian captives. Today it is estimated that there are no more than a few dozen Jews left in Iraq. All cultures living within the borders of Islam are annihilated. People either leave, convert or die. Languages disappear to be replaced by Arabic. **There are no exceptions over time**."
http://www.newenglishreview.org/custpage.cfm?frm=5208&sec_id=5208
skevin said,
"..........Ezikiel: I said "reformist", not "moderate".........."
Same difference skevin , to all devout muslims.
Just more *apostates* to kill, no matter *how you classify them*.
This [next] guy was a "reformist", see how far it got him!!!
October 1, 2007
Imam shot dead the day after he spoke out against Islamic jihadists
.....Wonder why more peaceful Muslims don't speak out against the jihad?
http://www.jihadwatch.org/archives/018328.php
".......I'm a Douai man."
????
I didn't get it.
Islam is an anti-Constitutional subversive movement seeking the establishment of a global theocratic tyranny.
How that is supposed to be done nicely has always puzzled me.
Zeke: I'm too tired to argue. I just stand by my words. There is no god but God, and we are each of us Her Prophet.
As for Douai, click here.
http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/05140a.htm
In the film "Elizabeth", Daniel Craig played an evil priest who was sent from Douai to assassinate the Queen.
OT, speaking of the KJV, does anyone say didst or wouldst anymore? How about publican or sackbut, bestead, affright, chapiter or cockle? All of these archaics are in the Jimster's version of the Bible, plus he-ass and greaves, not to mention churl and ague. I could go on.....
Give me some of that old-time religion, eh?
Q. What language does God speak?
A. All of them.
skevin said....
".......I'm a Douai man."
".......In the film "Elizabeth", Daniel Craig played an evil priest who was sent from Douai to assassinate the Queen."
Ahhhhh!
Now i see skevin. [smile]
Daniel Craig....
Very good actor [in my books anyway]!
Lex said.....
"OT, speaking of the KJV, does anyone say didst or wouldst anymore?......
Q. What language does God speak?"
Answer.....
......TRUTH.
Lex....
Why the KJV [in particular]?
....check out...
http://www.av1611.org/nkjv.html
As skevin knows, i'm a KJV man myself. [smile]
p.s.
MarisolJW....please forgive this sin, of OT *conversation*. [smile]
Ezekiel,
earlier today I mentioned that I'd e-mailed this link that you provided: http://www.memri.org/bin/articles.cgi?Area=sr&ID=SR01002 to scads of friends. "Read it and weep," I wrote. The recipients included one Muslim apologist by the name of Sami Zaatari (sami-zaatari@hotmail.com) His eminently reasonable and tempered reply follows:
"its funny there are many christian televangilists who say the same things these sheikhs do about Muslims. many of your christian preachers call Islam evil and false, and they say the same for Muslims. and now you cry foul play when saudi sheikhs do the same thing? what a typical stupid christian filled with double standards, infact you prove what those saudi sheikhs say is 100% true, you evil pagans have no problems in critising and attacking others, but like the shaytan you are you flinch and scream when the sword of truth exposes your lies and evilness. this is satan himself. you are of the devil, and christianity is of the devil, and your bible is the biggest piece of filth in existence today, call this extreme, i could care less, because it can all be proven that your religion is from satan, is pagan, and that the bible is a dispicible barbaric book that must be banned."
I've been accused of bringing out the best in people. I suppose they're right.
I wouldn't suppose that Sami draws any kinds of distinctions between the KJV, the NKJV, or the Douay-Rheims for that matter. They are all from "shaytan/satan" and are "dispicible barbaric."
Hmm, but the Bible can't be COMPLETELY false, Sami, or Mohammad wouldn't have borrowed from "the biggest piece of filth in existence today,"right?
I haven't replied to Sami's email yet. Maybe I'll just send him a link to this thread. :^)
@LEX
LOL, read a little Shakespeare you will find more words like that. He and King Jimmy were acquaintances. I believe some Pennsylvania Dutch or Mennonites use thee and thou in conversation (don't hold me to that). I heard some older men years ago pray and when they address God directly the fell into KJV English. So, I guess He knows or like KJV English the best!
BTW occasionally I catch a BBC show on a Shakespeare play and enjoy listening to the old English turn of a phrase. Stretches the mind.
From article:
"Many of the Islamic centers are operating under the auspices of the Saudi Arabian government and U.S. front groups for the radical Muslim Brotherhood based in Egypt."
Just as the nationalities of the 9/11 "bombers" revealed much about our attackers, this is a very telling statement.
More telling is Washington's inability to address the facts and shape foreign policy to fit.
Are there any reasons besides oil prices for our leaders failure to address these continuing multi-pronged attacks on America?
Screw the ME oil...we can buy it somewhere else...it's a global commodity market item after all.
If the market demands, I'll gladly pay a higher pump price to keep my money out of my enemies hands.
I submit that fear is winning in Washington.
The enemies identified in the article, the Muslim Arab supremacists, see weakness and advance accordingly.
Freedom of religion provides no cover for seditious speech or actions.
By not acting, our apprehensive leaders can expect jihad and "terror" against Americans to continue on all levels.
When will we get the Constitutional balls to stand against this assault and call out our enemies?
Encourage your representatives to boldly identify the enemy and support appropriate action as lawfully demanded.
Do it now.It's easy.It's free.You're already at a keypad so start typing.Now.Please fight in all possible ways.This is war.
@LEX
Good idea, link back to here, he might blow a gasket. That is an idea I proposed on another thread, let's deliberately get under their skin, sense it is so thin. This will show further to those who don't get it just how insane and over the top these wackos are. Then maybe they might start wanting to learn and know more about Islam, like so many of use who found this blog have done.
As a suggestion if you do write him back I would point out that the subject was Islam not any other religion, and he was obfuscating the subject by trying to compare two wrongs in justifying his position. He can't have it both ways. Therefore he is wrong on both counts. Also notice he did not deny that these teaching are going on. He probably has never been to a Christian meeting. You and I know that if other religions are mentioned nothing is ever said on how they should be eliminated just that they are different or wrong based upon our understanding of God and all.
All Mosques preach anti western nonsense, if they are preaching from the Quran.
Their is no pro-freedom, pro-liberty Islam.
From the For What It's Worth Dept.
I e-mailed Sami as follows:
Hey Sami,
I've posted your e-mail reply to me at a Jihad Watch thread here, along with my commentary. Just thought you should know that your remarks are now being read by lots and lots of Jihad Watch readers, who might want to engage you in discussions of various kinds, but will probably be content just to heap as many insults on you as you have heaped on me, but you won't know unless you visit. :^)
He replied thrice, like mortar fire in intensity!
11:13 p.m. "do you think i care? WOW im so scared. thanks for the publicity, i stand by what i said. you are a christian facist you think your bible and faith cant be critiqued and attacked for its lies and false-hood? go on post that too you coward. go to my site and visit the articles on biblical terrorism.
your a pathetic clown lol you thought that would scare me? your very stupid indeed."
11:15 p.m. "by the way, lol everything i told you in my email can be found on two sites, answering-christianity.com and my own site. so lol you pagan fool nothing you post on jihad watch isnt something i havent posted publicly myself. infact next month i will be debating publicly in the USA where i will expose your false anti-christ faith infront of hundreds of people. so post all of it, you spread the truth by posting my message. thanks!"
11:18 p.m. "infact you fool i challenge you to show me ONE thing i said which is violent and hateful....go on you christian facist. you wont be able to, you are an islamphobe who wants to attack Islam and claim freedom of speech and truth, but you seek to ban this when it comes to your false devilish faith called christianity and your terrorist manual book called the Bible. i have bad news for you, that will never happen on my watch, i will expose your book and faith everyday non stop, i have already converted many to Islam."
Oh, how I wish that Sami would learn to use a spell checker, and try to remember to capitalize the first letter of words that start a sentence! It would help his presentation immensely.
No surprises there.
Now, what is the US or anyone else going to do about it?
That is the pertinent question.
Darn it! I was gone all day and missed the party.
BTW, Duh Swami, how's your navel doing?
Lex,
You gotta love Sami. "infact you fool i challenge you to show me ONE thing i said which is violent and hateful..."
you coward
your a pathetic clown
you pagan fool
you christian facist
Yup, nothing hateful here. Maybe you should let him get a load of this:
http://custosfidei.blogspot.com/2008/02/christian-lectionary-original-source-of.html
LOL!!
Skevin
I referrred to you as a liberal-gay because of your liberal attitude towards Islam. An ideology that abhors homosexuality and whose imams preach in UK mosques that gays should be thrown from mountain tops.
You then say that we Brits could learn something from the US. As we Brits are about to lose our nation to EUrabia, have an Islamic state on our doorstep and are being swamped by muslim immigrants who have established no go areas governed by sharia, I'd say it is you who should look at Britain (and many other nations) and learn some lessons.
If you think you, your country or anyone else can exits as equals alongside Islam, think again.
PMK: Interesting stuff, especially the NAU. It seems that the same forces that are destroying our society may well be at work in yours.
Isabella,
Sami's line, "infact you fool i challenge you to show me ONE thing i said which is violent and hateful..." is the ONE thing that I sent back to him as proof of his malice! "What a maroon!" to quote Bugs Bunny. He hasn't e-mailed me back, but it was late.
Great link! So the Koran (Qur'an) was originally written in Syro-Aramaic and not Arabic, and the houri nymphs are really pure white grapes? Talk about a marketing disaster! This news has got to be squashed! What sexually frustrated male is going to want to blow himself up for a measly bunch of white grapes?
BTW, has a fatwa been issued calling for Luxenberg's blasphemous head on a pike?
Lex,
Your muslim correspondent wrote....
"its funny there are many christian televangilists who say the same things these sheikhs do about Muslims. many of your christian preachers call Islam evil and false, and they say the same for Muslims. and now you cry foul play when saudi sheikhs do the same thing? what a typical stupid christian filled with double standards, infact you prove what those saudi sheikhs say is 100% true, you evil pagans have no problems in critising and attacking others, but like the shaytan you are you flinch and scream when the sword of truth exposes your lies and evilness. this is satan himself. you are of the devil, and christianity is of the devil, and your bible is the biggest piece of filth in existence today, call this extreme, i could care less, because it can all be proven that your religion is from satan, is pagan, and that the bible is a dispicible barbaric book that must be banned."
Lex said,
"I've been accused of bringing out the best in people. I suppose they're right."
LOL
Amos 5:10
They hate him that rebuketh in the gate, and they abhor him that speaketh uprightly.
Lex,
I regard people who refer to themselves as 'muslims', as my brothers and sisters [in this flesh, Acts 17:26-27]. [i am no muslim.]
I could respond [beyond this], i was going to respond further, but on reflection, anything that i would say in response, may be construed [by JW] as, or wander into, proselytizing, so i had better bite my tongue.
:)
This is JW's site, not my site, so i will try to respect the JW site rules...
http://www.jihadwatch.org/archives/020075.php#c513877
JW [as it is,] are providing a great service to all Christians [and to all non-muslims], just in existing for us to post here, and by being as tolerant as JW are, to many of our very divergent views.
I can understand that the JW site [and forum] 'reason for being' is about reporting issues relating *very directly* to 'political' ISLAM, and i can understand why JW would want to maintain that very particular focus.
people should not be confused.there's no such thing as Fundamental,Moderate or Radical ISLAM.There is only one ISLAM and that is the violent ISLAM of Mohamed!!!!
WARNING!beep.. beep.. beep.. (red light flashing) INTRUSION OF ISLAM HAS GONE TOO FAR.ERADICATE THIS MOSQUES IMMEDIATELY.EVACUATE THE VICINITY AT ONCE!!!!
9…8..7..6..5..4..3..2..1..0..KABOOOM!!!!
Ezekiel,
A little proselytizing is good for the soul!
This from the continuing Sami correspondence, in response to his faithful Muslim objection that Jesus wasn't REALLY crucified, and following my pointed rejoinder that the NT authors were in all probability not liars or dupes:
"Oh, and Sami, Allah also tricked Mary, Jesus' mother. She only thought that she saw him die, right? Does it mention in the Qur'an that Allah let Mary in on the secret, or did Allah just let this good woman suffer under the mistaken belief that her son had been crucified? (If so) This means that she prepared someone else's body for burial, and went to her own grave grieving for her son who had never been put to death! Did HE let her in on the good news, Sami?
Lex said....
"A little proselytizing is good for the soul!"
Hmmmm, is that true? :)
here....
A table of comparison...
between the traditional characterisation of Biblical characters,
and the ISLAMIC / Koranic characterisation of Biblical characters. [....including a little proselytizing :) ]
http://members.dodo.com.au/~wtt626/Christiansandmuslims.html
Also of interest....
The 'inerrant' Koran is so 'confused' that it states that, Mary [Miriam], the sister of Aaron [and Moses], is the mother of, ...Jesus.
Find that info with Google....
quran OR koran Mary the sister of Aaron the mother of Jesus
"Nonsense, of course, that overlooks, or rather attempts to convince Infidels to overlook, 1350 years of anti-Infidel history, including a textually based antisemitism that differs in some of its aspects from the kind exhibited historically in Western Christendom.
The assertion that "[t]he relationships between Jews and Muslims have been defined by Israel-Arab relations, which are not exactly good," states things backwards. The reason that Israel-Arab "relations" are "not exactly good" is because Arabs, Muslims (and islamochristians), prompted by Islamic doctrines, cannot bear to contemplate, and will never (as long as they remain so prompted), willingly acquiesce in, the permanent existence of the Infidel nation-state of Israel, one that exists on territory once possessed by Islam, and furthermore, in a place that interrupts the land-mass of what they see as the "Arab lands" or "Arab world." To summarize: the fact that "Israel-Arab relations [that are 'not good']" has not caused Muslim antisemitism. It is Islamic doctrines, about Infidels in general, and about Jews, a subset of those Infidels, in particular -- that is, Islamic antisemitism -- that has caused those Israel-Arab relations to be, in the past, in the present, and in a future which is perfectly foreseeable, "not good." -Hugh
Umm...actually, large numbers of Jews were under Muslim rule during the Middle Ages. There was general improvement in the conditions of Jews as Islamic law commands that Jews should be judged by Jewish laws, and that synagogues are to be protected. n the Iberian Peninsula, under Muslim rule, Jews were able to make great advances in mathematics, astronomy, philosophy, chemistry and philology. In the Iberian Peninsula, under Muslim rule, Jews were able to make great advances in mathematics, astronomy, philosophy, chemistry and philology and experienced a golden age of cooperation between Muslims and Jews. This era is referred to as the Golden age of Jewish culture in the Iberian Peninsula. During early Islam, Leon Poliakov writes, Jews enjoyed great privileges, and their communities prospered. There was no legislation or social barriers preventing them from conducting commercial activities. The vizier of Baghdad entrusted his capital with Jewish bankers. The Jews were put in charge of certain parts of maritime trade. Siraf, the principal port of the caliphate in the 10th century CE, had a Jewish governor. The Ottoman Empire had served as a refuge for Spanish Jews who had been expelled from Spain and its, especially after the fall of Muslim Spain in 1492 and Edict of Expulsion. This was also the case for the Maghreb in North Africa, where a Jewish quarter, was installed in most large Arabian cities. Later the Jewish converts were driven out of Spain fleeing the Roman Catholic Inquisition.
...You were saying?
Ezekiel notes that according to the inerrant Koran, "Mary [Miriam], the sister of Aaron [and Moses], is the mother of, ...Jesus."
Wow! Whodathunkit? Maybe she was also snatched up to Paradise until such time as she was needed to be the mother of Jesus. If not, and she just survived that long by eating right and exercising, then it wouldn't surprise me to learn that ssomeone that sturdy is still alive somewhere, maybe in Ephesus, best bet.
Ezekiel notes that according to the inerrant Koran, "Mary [Miriam], the sister of Aaron [and Moses], is the mother of, ...Jesus."
Wow! Whodathunkit? Maybe she was also snatched up to Paradise until such time as she was needed to be the mother of Jesus. If not, and she just survived that long by eating right and exercising, then it wouldn't surprise me to learn that someone that sturdy is still alive somewhere, maybe in Ephesus, best bet.
'Comment' said [in reply to Hugh],
".......In the Iberian Peninsula, under Muslim rule, Jews were able to make great advances in mathematics, astronomy, philosophy, chemistry and philology and experienced a golden age of cooperation between Muslims and Jews. This era is referred to as the *Golden age of Jewish culture* in the Iberian Peninsula. During early Islam, Leon Poliakov writes, Jews enjoyed great privileges, and their communities prospered. There was no legislation or social barriers preventing them from conducting commercial activities........"
What a load of mis-information.
Muslims, as the victors in historical conflicts, wrote [and always write] their own history to *shine* themselves in the eyes of others, *and posterity*.
Just look around the world today, where muslims are in conflict with others, and the *ABSOLUTE* lack of candour on the part of muslims, in reporting *their own* situations.
Falsehood upon falsehood, that is ISLAM.
Falsehood upon falsehood, that is ISLAM.
Falsehood upon falsehood, that is ISLAM.
But what is surprising about this?
Every day, this man devoutly bows down to worship the father of lies. ....'ISLAM is peace'
"....Abraham is our father.
Jesus saith unto them,.....this did not Abraham."
http://www.blueletterbible.org/kjv/Jhn/Jhn008.html#44
ISLAM in victory, has always rewritten history, *proclaiming* to everyone what wondrous benefactors they [muslims] are to human culture. [WHAT A LAUGH!!! WHAT LIES!!!!]
The truth was very different.
ISLAM just stole and assimilated, what they could make use of, from those other cultures which they over-ran, and then wrote an ISLAMIC history the events, *in self praise*.
Just look at what they have done with the highjacking of the person of Jesus Christ, now a muslim prophet.
And Mary [Miriam], the sister of Aaron [and Moses], is the mother of, ...Jesus.
Another 'hijacking' of a biblical personage.
Koran 19:27-34
Falsehood upon falsehood, that is ISLAM.
THE KORAN...
WHAT UTTER, UTTER, UTTER, UTTER, UTTER,
.....'INERRANT', RUBBISH!
Muslim historians i would wager, attend the same school [probably literally, ha] as muslim 'religious scholars'.....
"......I would suggest that, it does not give anyone much hope for, or confidence in, so called muslim 'scholarship', when all who would dare diverge from any 'predetermined' ISLAMIC 'norm', are put in fear of their lives.
In ISLAM, where is the primacy of TRUTH, over dogma?
Clearly, there is none.
The norm in scholarship could be described....
".....precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line....",
....but in ISLAM it appears as......'....falsehood, upon falsehood, and threat, upon threat'......."
http://members.dodo.com.au/~wtt626/Christiansandmuslims.html#Muslim_scholars_and_clerics_insist
'Comment' .......an apologist for liars, deceivers, muslims.
my last post....
"......Muslims, as the victors in historical conflicts, wrote [and always write] their own history to *shine* themselves in the eyes of others, *and posterity*.
Just look around the world today, where muslims are in conflict with others, and the *ABSOLUTE* lack of candour on the part of muslims, in reporting *their own* situations."
With muslims its all, about lies and falsehood, to achieve a political, *secular*, worldly supremacy.
*ALWAYS* portraying themselves as the poor 'victims', where they are [at the moment] unable to prevail.
But in those places where muslim influence is able to prevail, it is *ALWAYS* ruthless atrocity after ruthless atrocity.
example....
http://members.dodo.com.au/~wtt626/comeinpeace.html#And_more_of_what_passes_for_political_debate_in_any_society_where_devout_muslims_predominate.
Bow down to your father, liars!!!!
Other then useless rhetoric that proves nothing, why don't you try hitting me with historical facts. You have refuted NONE of my claims so far. By the way, about Muslim contributions and how it's so "unimportant", I'll just point out this: not only did Muslims, Jews, and Nestorian Christians (considered a heretical sect) make great advances in Islamic society, Classic works by Aristotle, Ptolemy, Archimedes, the Hippocrates, ect were translated into Arabic. Without these Arabic translation, these works would have been lost. Did you know that Thomas Aquinas made his famous integration of faith and Greek philosophy after reading Aristotle's works translated from Arabic by Abu Ali ibn Sina (know in Europe of Avicenna)? The only reason Islamic civilization collapse was because of the Mongol invasions, which completely devastated the Islamic world and transfered the centers of learning from the Middle East to Europe. Notice how the Dark Ages ended a bit after the Crusades? This was because Crusaders brought back knowledge from the Islamic world. Just face it, without Islam, you would still be in the Dark Ages. If you're gonna insult Islam, at least acknowledge it's scientific and philosophical accomplishments.
'Comment' said....
"........Notice how the Dark Ages ended a bit after the Crusades? This was because Crusaders brought back knowledge from the Islamic world. Just face it, without Islam, you would still be in the Dark Ages. If you're gonna insult Islam, at least acknowledge it's scientific and philosophical accomplishments........"
ISLAM does not spread knowledge, ......it DESTROYS other *creative* cultures, and then 'appropriates' all those things from those cultures, which it can use itself - including the knowledge *discovered by others*.
Muslims, always portraying themselves as generous benefactors of mankind.
For the TRUTH, look at *every Sharia jurisdiction* today.
ALWAYS, ALWAYS, ALWAYS, TRUTH is suppressed, where it is in conflict with ISLAMIC 'truth'.
ISLAMIC states produce *nothing* [even their oil was produced using Western tech], all ISLAMIC states [all Sharia jurisdictions] are parasitic, and live on the aid [while ungrateful muslim clerics call it Jizya, to bolster, and lift the empty muslim pride, out of the ISLAMIC *gutter*] from generous, but dumb [naive] Westerners.
Soon, this will all end.
ISLAMIC armies will soon meet the God of Israel, and die.
[....i am not jewish, ]
http://members.dodo.com.au/~wtt626/parables.html#The_conflict_underway_today_for_the_land