From "Kosovo Declares Independence From Serbia: Braces for a Bitter Showdown," by Nabi Qena and William J. Kole for the Associated Press:
In the capital, Pristina, the mood was jubilant. Thousands of ethnic Albanians braved subfreezing temperatures to ride on the roofs of their cars, singing patriotic songs and chanting: "KLA! KLA!" the acronym for the now-disbanded rebel Kosovo Liberation Army.
From "KLA rebels train in terrorist camps," by Jerry Seper for the Washington Times in 1999:
Some members of the Kosovo Liberation Army, which has financed its war effort through the sale of heroin, were trained in terrorist camps run by international fugitive Osama bin Laden...
Is this independence venture really something the U.S. should encourage?
From CNN:
The United States officially recognized Kosovo -- the Balkan state which split from Serbia on Sunday -- as an independent nation on Monday, Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice said in a written statement.
"We congratulate the people of Kosovo on this historic occasion," Rice said. "President Bush has responded affirmatively to a request from Kosovo to establish diplomatic relations between our two countries."
Britain, Germany and France will recognize Kosovo. Greece, Spain and Romania have not yet signed on, nor has Canada, whose government is reported to be considering their response.
Kosovo is the heartland of the indigenous Slavic Serbs. Further, the Muslims in the region were great recruiting ground for Nazi Waffen SS divisions during WW2. All Albanians in Kosovo should be repatriated to Albania.
I'm sure Putin is angry at this. This is going to have unforeseen consequences.
http://72.14.205.104/search?q=cache:l0dwkJCaZ5UJ:www.kosovo.net/skenderbeyss.html+kosovo,+nazis&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=1&gl=us
Is this independence venture really something the U.S. should encourage?
Of course it is. It fits nicely into the PC/multicultural framework. It may not be in our best interest, but we've never let that stop us before. No reason to start acting responsibly now.
I don't like the idea of a Muslim State in Europe, but, frankly, I don't see how Serbia can possibly govern the place if it's 2 million people are determined to be independent. It would be a never-ending civil war, and I believe the Serbs would come to regret trying to hold on to it by force.
It's a simple question of reality.
Wake up America.
These people are islamists. Albanians are islamists.
Europe is in serious trouble.
Rational
Were it not for outside forces getting involved I believe the Serbs would have a handle on this now. The Serbs were winning before we got involved. The Jihadists stated this, the Serbs were finishing the fight, but that didn't sit too well did it? If I were Putin I'd start it up again ... really what would the U.N. do now to stop them with open Russian support? Just remember this is our fight too. It sets a real bad precident for the rest of western civilization. All Muslims need to do is move in and outbreed then throw in a century and viola start up and war of Independence to create your Islamic state in a break away region that they now controll. These are simple terms, but it really isn't too complicated.
Radio and television in both Moscow and Belgrade quote a leader of the pro-Putin movement "Nashi" as saying that Russia is preparing to parachute up to 100,000 spetznaz troops into Kosovo if needed to protect Serbia interests. The same report also said that Putin told Bush that Russia is prepared to re-target its nuclear arsenal back on Western Europe and the United States.
Slava Jesu Christu!
If muslims really succeed in confronting the USA and Russia that will be their largest achievement ever.
But anyway, I know something about my people - we will not submit without fight. Only over our dead bodies. Maybe our options were very limited until now, but this "declaration of independence" will change a lot of things.
ethoman,
I really don't disagree with most of what you've said, but I don't agree that the Serbs would have had a handle on this by now. The situation in Kosovo was fast becomming a cause in the Islamic world, and it had all the potential for drawing in every Muslim Tom, Dick and Harry looking for Martyrdom. I doubt if a building or person in Serbia would be safe from suicide bombers, as is the case in Israel, Afghanistan and Iraq -- or for that matter, Europe.
Remember also that outbreeding the Serbs can only work if they are a part of Serbia. As a seperate country, Slavic and Christian, Serbia will be in a far better position to defend itself than if it contained a large Muslim population within its borders.
I still say Serbia is better off without them.
As for the rest of the countries of Europe, Their Islamic problems are their own fault. They should never have invited them into their countries, and continue to allow them to immigrate to their cointries. Muslims are something new to Western Europe, which is not the case with Serbia and Kosovo.
Europeans can still get tough on Muslims residing in their countries, but I don't think the Serbs have that option.
I don't like it one bit, but I think it's a matter of reality. The Serbs have to face the reality of their unique situation, and the rest of Europe had better face the reality of their unique situation. Serbia can't turn back the clock, but Western Europe can stop the clock, and even reverse it of they know what's good for them.
Huh Rational, what a bullshit...
Why didn't you let the Serbs decide what is best for Serbia?
And yes, we had kicked KLA big time, they were about to be erased from the face of the earth when NATO KLA-AirForce jumped in. And instead of helping Serbs to defeat KLA and jihad, the USA helped muslims.
What's "rational" here?
Does anyone believe seriously, that the KLA will stop at Kosovo?
Of course not; Serbia, you are next!
Does anyone know if Kosovo has a new constitution yet? How prominent a role does Islam play in the political/legal construct of this new nation? (ie: No law shall contradict Allah's laws in the Qur'an; as is found in Afghanistan's new constitution).
News:
"The Islamic umma (nation) wishes the people of Kosovo and its government success in their new struggle to build a strong and prosperous country," the Islamic bloc said in a statement issued from its headquarters in the Saudi city of Jeddah.
WASHINGTON-President Bush on Monday hailed Kosovo's historic bid for statehood and the U.S. government extended formal recognition to it as "a sovereign and independent state."
Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice said in a statement that Bush "has responded affirmatively" to Kosovo's request to establish diplomatic relations.
"The establishment of these relations will reaffirm the special ties of friendship that have linked together the people of the United States and Kosovo,:" the statement said.
Xero,
No way. Albanians are very skilled in deception, they will keep low profile in public. But hundreds of new mosques are built and are quietly spreading wahhabi ideology. They will not show their ugly face until it is safe for them.
The Serbs have now to be patient and wait for another 20-25 years and by then there will be civil wars between muslims and infidels all over Europe. When that happens it will be the right time for Serbia to deal with the bosnian and albanian muslims.
The main thing Serbia did wrong in the 1990's was timing: it was the worst time ever to go to war. Russia was at its weakest for centuries and before 9/11 the true nature of islam was hidden to almost all americans and west europeans. In a couple of decades most native europeans will realize that they are facing the same threat to their countries as Serbia and hopefully a grand European alliance against the islamic occupation will emerge.
Britain, Germany and France will recognize Kosovo. Greece, Spain and Romania have not yet signed on, nor has Canada, whose government is reported to be considering their response.
Posted by: ImNoDhimmi
----
The checks from SOWdi were a little delayed.. they'll sign on any moment now..
Rational
Hmm, your attitdue to this anything but rational.
There are bigger issues here:
1. Clinton, Bush and Blair are war criminals. They launched an attack on a sovereign nation dealing with its own affairs (illegal) based solely on a pack of lies. That being the Serbs were committing ethnic cleansing. In fact, the Serbs were the victims.
2. This is about appeasement for oil and the guarantee of oil supply. It is absolutely sickening what has been done to our allies the Serbs, all because we are dependent on our enemies for our energy needs.
3. The UN is acting directly in contravention of its own charter a point the Russians are making very clear. This means that the UN is now guilty of a war crime because it is acknowledging the independence of Kosovo thus violating Serbia's sovereignty. You see, the muslim Albanian terrorist thugs can't defend Kosovo without support from the UN and NATO. Well hey, why doesn't Russia help Serbia defend HER TERRITORY. That's how stupid the US, the UN and the EU are. I personally hope Russia sends in the Spetznaz but I won't hold my breath. But a resume of the cold war? Great job America!
4. What about other nations? Here's one for you to ponder: What if say, the Mexicans in California or Texas become a majority and start ethnically cleansing Americans and then declare independece? Does that sit well with you?
I could go on but there's enough there I think.
This is an outrage that shames the UN, the US and the corrupt marxist EU. I for one am sick and tired of watching the US, the UN and the EU demand that Serbia and Israel appease the muslims yet if they had to face the reality that those nations face everyday the response would be, how did the gung-ho general put it? Hammer time. What nauseating hipocrisy!
The west is now a shambolic, cowardly and devious society too greedy and too liberal to defend what is right and in so doing sows the seeds of its own destruction.
The future generations will never forgive what's been done and it is they who will face the consequences.
And they won't be pleasant that's for sure.
This is a no-brainer. It is the carbon copy of the Palestinian problem. Until Gaza and the West Bank become recognized as national states by the other members of the community of nations, there will be no opportunity for Israel to invoke article 51 of the UN charter which gives any state the right to defend itself from attack from any other state with as much force as the defending state deems necessary to neutralize the attackers, even if that means utter destruction of the attacking state.
So once Kosovo is recognized as a state, any aggression against Serbia which proceeds from the Islamic Republic of Kosovo may be met by Serbia by right of article 51 with impunity and with as much force as Serbia deems necessary, even if that means completely erasing the state of Kosovo from the planet.
@European Crusader
The problem with "the timing" is that Serbs didn't "go to war" but were attacked.
The Serbska Republic will soon declare immediate independence from Muslim Bosnia with full Russian and Serbian support. Also, this will further empower those in Romania, Bulgaria, Greece, Cyprus, Slovakia, and even Spain who want to withdraw from both the EU and NATO.
Pandora's box is now open and the circumstances that led to World War I are now repeating themselves. Just more proof that George W. Bush is an idiot.
I object to calling these albanian invaders as "kosovars" which is like calling mexican invaders texans once they cross the border
The question is does America needs this ?
Need what exactly ?
The biggest supporters of this from the beginning happen to be the very same people who argued for invasion of Iraq that is they all happen to be big partisans of Israel who push this agenda of subverting middle eastern government and then supporting islamic fundamentalism and terrorism away from israel that is Balkans and Afghanistan.
Even Osama Bin Laden has said a few times that curious foreign policies by Washington are mostly to his liking and they often have the same goals but their motivations are completelly different and exclusive from each other, that is Washington is solely motivated by Israeli expansionism and preserving that expansionism while Osama and Al Qaida are motivated by some archaic islamic empire where no foreign influence is allowed or tollerated . So it's easy to see how one feeds into another and how serious delusions are developed especially in Washington where they are trying to figure out what else can they do for muslims.
The blind fanaticism and that's the right word here in Washington for Israel and subsequent policies to justify that monopoly is what lies at the root of rise terrorism, islamic fundamentalism and complete breakdown of international order. Washington politicians like to think that they can represent everyone's inerests but it seems they serve none , not even theirown as all of their past attempts to cajole muslim world and expand Israel at the same time have backfired
Anyway there was a big article recently in the serbian media how so called uck-kla was financed and armed by cia from albania so that's all there is to it
@PMatovic
Dear brother, you are wrong.
Prastaj i pomeni
What a !@#$ing mess. I dearly wish we'd stayed out
of the Balkans and let Serbia deal with this, or
better yet, supported the Serbs.
What can be done now? Not much, I think. The next
US President will be awful, whoever it is, and
Europe is still sleeping. The only hope is if
the dictator Putin steps in and supports Serbia.
In that case, I hope we (the USA) are cowardly and
decide not to oppose him.
I see by events in the US and around the world since the 1990s that our decade plus support of Bosnian Muslims and now the independence of Kosovar, has really impressed the world's Muslims...
I'm sure exiled Tibetans and those who remained in Tibet are just tickled pink about this...
The U.S. has been helping Saudi in carving Kosovo out of Serbia since the Clinton's 1995 Bosnia Intervention. Of course, it upsets the Russians and the Serbians. No doubt, with the Russian's help, the Serbians will fight till the U.S. gives up.
The U.S., in the last 40 years, has never shown any serious determination in the fight against Muslims, but Russians and Serbians have proven with determination to fight Muslims "in their land." Had it not been for U.S.'s complaints, the Russians would have razed down Chechnya. The military regimes like Russia and China have proven effective again Muslims. We all will soon see a new war shifted from Iraq to Europe. The U.S. will not win. This will make Iraq look like a dwarf.
At the rate we cozy up to the Saudis, our population will become Muslims long before the Chinese's or Russian's will.
Our leaders are a bunch of con men only interested in money and power.
I am sorry if it doesn't sound pleasant.
The KLA where never disbanded, The UN gave them tin badges and they became KLP (Kosovo Police Service)
UNMIK United Nations Interim Administration Mission in Kosovo
Recruitment and selection of KPS candidates reflects demographic and geographic criteria and includes rigorous written and aptitude tests, oral interviews and regular evaluation during the basic police course and field training. Background screenings of all KPS trainees are carried out continuously during school training, field training and eventual deployment.
UNMIK believes that significant participation of the local population in the police force is sure to increase the public's confidence in law and order and enhance the operational effectiveness of the UNMIK Police. UNMIK Police is therefore planning to recruit greater numbers of KPS members from the ranks of former police officers, many of whom were expelled by the Belgrade regime between 1989 and 1992. The KPS has also proved to be a viable employment alternative qualified former members of the Kosovo Liberation Army (KLA), who today make up 50 to 55 per cent of the recruits. UNMIK Police continues to promote active recruitment of former KLA members for the KPS.
The main aim of that was to make the KLA more easily controlled.
NOW THAT SUX
Lazar
You are of course right. Yugoslavia was being destroyed by external and internal parties, so the Serbs had no choice but to defend themselves. But no doubt that their enemies chose the time of the war to their advantage.
This is so horrible, but I've been saying it for a long time. I guess there are several things we can do. Write to our government and let them know how stupid this is. Our government must admitt that it took part in war crimes against the Serbian people. Bill Clinton should be brought before a war crimes tribunal. After this when we realize the mistake we must change course, because two wrongs never make a right. I think I am going to contact the Serbian Embassy to see how I can help.
LazarOfSerbia,
Wrong about what?
The same people using same methods in the war on Serbia as later on Iraq? even clear propaganda lies are similar
That US government supports islamic fundamentalism and terrorism where it can't hurt Israel or their "interests" . By intent (balkan and afghanistan before) or not(iraq), islamic fundamentalism thrives in american/western occupied lands .
That Israel gets 3-5 billions of free money from Washington annualy to fund its army and economy which creates unnatural disproportion in the region and constant instability in a region that is admitedly still struggling with backwardness , economic staganation and authoritarianism.
That Israeli partisans in Washington are constantly pushing for wars on Israeli enemies or even imaginary rivals and that these same Israeli partisans defend their pro Israeli bias by taking up and talking up islamic causes such as against Serbia today and in the past and maybe Russia tomorrow.
Maybe you need to be reminded of the careful words of now deceased Tom Lantos or Joe Biden, 2 of the hardest zionist nationalist in Washington and noted serb and russian haters and proponents of "albanian islamic kosovo"
http://www.antiwar.com/malic/?articleid=10303
"The people of Kosovo – already the most pro-American in the Islamic world – will provide a much-needed example of a successful US-Muslim partnership."
http://www.antiwar.com/malic/?articleid=10941
"Just a reminder to the predominantly Muslim-led government[s] in this world that here is yet another example that the United States leads the way for the creation of a predominantly Muslim country in the very heart of Europe. This should be noted by both responsible leaders of Islamic governments, such as Indonesia, and also for jihadists of all color and hue. The United States' principles are universal, and in this instance, the United States stands foursquare for the creation of an overwhelmingly Muslim country in the very heart of Europe."
-------------------------------------------------
Maybe it's easy to believe in black and white world and see that muslims are a sole problem but like certain forces from the past (communism and nazism feeding off of each other for example) the root causes and sheer power of this ruthless movement is mostly manipulated by real powermongers who instead of confronting it as they sometimes claim have embraced it in order to manipulate it and use it for their own nefarious purposes and their own ends.
I want to let the Serbian people know that I am so ashamed of Bush and what my government has done to your nation. I believe that Clinton is guilty of war crimes against your people, and if that wasn't a broken enough policy against your nation Bush is ignorantly perpetuating this horrible situation in his support of an independent Kosovo, thusly rewarding terror and Islamic extremists with your province. Look whom they elected as PM Hashim Thaci ... a convicted war criminal, drug trafficking terrorist. As an American I want to know how I can help the people of Serbia, I'd like to start by learning about charitable organizations, which I can become involved in.
This is the letter I wrote the Serbian Embassy I'll post if the get back to me. This is just so wrong thre must be a way for Americans to help other than writtine letters
PMatovic
You are utterly clueless.
The US is the main reason why Israel faces rocket attacks everyday, as it is continually forced by the US to appease the muslims. Only Israel obeys the peace treaties. The muslims never do. Israel is a beacon of democracy for all of its people, it is a jewel of the ME and you bang on about it being the reason for instablity?
Hey WAKE UP. The ME is instable because of Islam, no other reason. Give me Israel over any other barbaric Islamic ME cesspit any day.
And the US is preventng Israel from defending itself for the same reason it has sided with the terrorist Albanian thugs and interfered in Srebia's business - oil.
The similarities between Israel and Kosovo are frightening. And thanks to the US, we Europeans now have a muslim nation in our midst that will be used to traffic drugs, weapons and sadly women, throughout Europe as the muslim attack on the west gathers pace.
And the Serbs fought the nazis and aided US airmen during WWII and the thanks the US gives them is to side with the muslims. The very same people who wanted to blow up Fort Dix.
If stupidity were an olympic sport, the UN would win a bronze, the EU a silver and the US would win gold by some distance.
"Things fall apart, the center cannot hold;
Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world...
The best lack all conviction, while the worst
Are full of passionate intensity."
The Second Kosovo.
Anywhere The Koran rules, chaos reigns
It's the dogma, stupid.
@PMatovic
You are wrong at this point:
"The blind fanaticism and that's the right word here in Washington for Israel and subsequent policies to justify that monopoly is what lies at the root of rise terrorism, islamic fundamentalism and complete breakdown of international order."
At the root of terrorism and islamic fundamentalism is Qur'an and Muhammad's example. This was the same before Israel and will be the same with or without the USA, Israel or Serbia.
@Ethoman
Thank you brother! You can go to nearest Serbian Orthodox Church, they are collecting donations for Kosovo Christians regularly. Every dollar is important, they are very poor.
ethoman
In addition to contacting your local Serb Orthodox Church and contributing to the collections for the beleaguered Christians of Kosovo, there are one or two other things.
You could check out the Barnabas Fund, which focuses on supporting Christians (of every denomination) in every place where they are under pressure from Muslims, and see if they have projects in the Balkans.
Another thing to do is to support the work of the Bible Societies in Serbia, Bosnia, Albania and Macedonia. (Yes: there is a branch of the Bible Society in Bosnia, and one in Albania).
They focus on two things - 1.encouraging the existing Christians, of all traditions (whether Orthodox, Protestant or Catholic [a recent re-translation/ revision of the whole Bible in one of the two languages of Albania, was done by young Albanian Christian scholars from the Orthodox, Protestant and Catholic confessions working together]) and 2. making the Bible text available to any Muslim seekers.
In a Time magazine story about Kosovo the reporter mentioned meeting a young ex-Muslim, who had become a Christian after reading a copy of the Gospels which someone gave him. (I got the impression the reporter was flabbergasted ). One less jihadi...one more happy person in the world.
If I were the Serb and Greek governments I would be urging Christian stations to flood the airwaves 24/7 with broadcasts of the 'Faith Comes By Hearing' recitations of the Biblical texts, in Albanian and other languages spoken by Balkan Muslims.
LazarofSerbia - let's pray for a mighty work of God, and the sight of crowds of former Muslims in the white robes of the catechumenate, being baptised in every church font, indeed, in every river and lake, across the Balkans. Emir Kusturica 'came home', out of Islam to the orthodox faith of his long-ago ancestors. Now for the others!
We need to remember the walls of Jericho; and our Lord's words about mountains being cast into the sea. "With God, nothing is impossible".
Sure brother, our fight is on two fronts - to survive in this world and to get into Eternal Kingdom with everybody. And yes, with Albanians also.
And, all of you who want to help - spread the word. Tell people about Serbia and the truth about it. Explain to your friends why it is important.
God bless
Word is that the Albanian mafia paid Ahtisaari, the Finnish designer of the Kosovo independence plan, a nifty € 40 million to have the plan made up their way. A relevant business investment, of course.
The German intelligence agency Bundesnachrichtendienst is quoted for reporting this. US officials refused to let the matter be investigated.
We have a mafia to deal with. And should support the Serbian government, police and army to the max getting this under control. This area of Europe is the place where you can purchase a fully functional tank, no questions ask, if you have cash.
Excuse me for sounding a contrary note, but if memory serves, it was Milosevic and his barbaric "ethnic cleansing" policies that led to NATO's involvement in Kosovo. In case anyone has forgotten what "ethnic cleansing " meant in this context, please review this document from the U.S. State Department: Ethnic Cleansing in Kosovo: An Accounting
Milosevic was a bloody monster who had to be stopped, imho. That is, HE BROUGHT IT ON HIMSELF AND SERBIA, and no effort at dressing him up as beseiged defender of Orthodox Christianity will succeed. It rather makes a mockery of the Cross to even try! The same holds with Putin, the former KGB defender of Russian Orthodoxy?! Even Lenin would smile at the duplicity on display here, using the Church as cover for nationalist ambition. Onward Christian soldiers? HA!
My kingdom is not of this earth, Jesus said. Too few believe this.
the ummah rejoices...another traditionally Christian land has fallen...
I am extremely disappointed that the U.S. has supported an independent Kosovo.
Creating an independent Kosovo through declaration of independence is an illegal action of statehood that must be prevented.
This historical action will bring have of unforseen consequences for the Balkans region, the Europe Union, and the overall credibility of U.S political leadership.
The Kosovo Liberation Army (KLA) are a gang of thugs. They have terrorist and drug trafficking history.
The London Times on March 24 cited an intelligence report that indicated as much as half of the funding for the KLA's guerrilla war comes from drug proceeds.
The San Francisco Chronicle on May 5 reported that European and U.S. law enforcement groups see officers of the KLA as "a major force in international organized crime, moving staggering amounts of narcotics through an underworld network that reaches into the heart of Europe."
Yet the U.S. has chosen to side with the KLA Muslims in their quest to create Muslim state in Europe.
Senator John McCain is a major supporter of the KLA.
Senator McCain helped to arm the KLA against the Orthodox Serbs.
Read about McCain's support of the KLA:
http://news.serbianunity.net/2008/02/14/5981/
Here is a short summary:
Americans of Albanian heritage collected a million dollars in one evening for the presidential campaign of Republican Senator John McCain.
"Even in 1998 when we had problems with Milosevic, McCain did everything that we asked of him to the benefit of the Albanian people, including arming the KLA”, announced Joe DioGuardi of the Albanian American Civic League.
Despite the fact that he is leading in the presidential nomination, John McCain has not yet succeeded in convincing the primary wing of the Republican Party - the conservatives - that he is the right candidate.
One of the reasons is that he often spoke and voted against the majority Republicans, as in 1999 when he asked for more intensive air bombing of Serbia.
In April of that year, three weeks after the bombing commenced, he announced that the US is in danger of losing the war to the Serbian Army which has “antiquated machinery” and “absolutely no military air power”, if massive strategic air attacks are not initiated. “Attacks on any infrastructure target must not be prevented. We all regret civilian losses, as well as our own, but they cannot be avoided,” he said.
During the pre-election campaign in February 2000 at a meeting in Manhatten, John McCain asked for the release of all Albanian prisoners in the prisons of Serbia proper, and a year later he used his inlfuence to ask the administration for an urgent investigation into the killing of the brothers Bitici who were taken from prison and killed in the police training center in Petrovo Selo in eastern Serbia. This February 5 the senator held another meeting in Manhatten and in the public there was a visible Albanian flag.
Hmmm, then according to your view the muslim albanians were innocent lambs slaughtered for no reason whatsoever.
Interesting how Kosovo which was once 90% Serbian suddenly became 90% albanian.
I suppose the Serbs decided to simply move to greener pastures and sold their houses at inflated prices to the hapless albanians who were unfairly cheated, right?
Certainly, it isn't possible that the albanians systematically beheaded the Serbs, slit their throats in the night and left many to die in ditches along side the roads.
Natuarally, in your view I suppose that no churches were burned to the ground because the supposed churches never existed, right?
You obviously have never been there or if you have, you are probably an albanian or an agent of the UN.
No one liked Milosovic really, but he did not start the "ethnic cleansing" in this case.
Stating that he did, is a bold face lie.
Lex,
First of all, I spent my best years of life fighting against Milosevic. He was guilty for ruining Serbian economy and image in the world.
But what you read and see in the media are *all lies*. For two years of war against KLA, there were about 2,000 dead on all sides. If Serbs wanted to "ethnically cleanse" Kosovo, this could be done in two days. The truth is - Serbian army was fighting against armed KLA terrorists and protected all civilans. There were no refugees until NATO started bombing. How to explain that? Easy - even Albanians were aware that Serbian forces will not hurt them if they are not affiliated with terrorists and they stayed at home. There was no need to run unless for KLA terrorists. When NATO started bombing some Albanians took the shield where? In Serbian Christian monasteries...!@#?
Milosevic was just a fool not capable of defending his own people having all moral and legal rights on his side. And that's what he was guilty for. But "bloody monsters" were on other sides. Read Izetbegovic's "Islamic Declaration" for instance.
Think my friend, think.
Don't believe everything in the media.
God bless
witness,
Have I excused whatever monstrous deeds the Albanian Muslims may have perpetrated against their Christian neighbors? I have not. My focus was on Milosevic and the attention from NATO that his brutal policies attracted, which is another way of saying that he could have, and should have, handled things much differently.
Without actually reviewing the Kosovar records of births and deaths, but knowing something of the anti-natalist mindset that afflicts most of non-Muslim Europe, I would suggest that the PRIMARY reason why 90% Serbian (Christian) Kosovo became 90% Albanian (Muslim) is because the Serbians decided to forego having children for whatever reason, and the Albanians had scads of kids.
Has it not occurred to you that this is precisely why Europe has had to import labor? The natives have contracepted/aborted themselves to the point of extinction, and for this reason have had to import labor, much of it Muslim!
It may interest you to know that Milosevic gave permission to the Int'l Planned Parenthood Federation to go into Kosovo with its portable vacuum abortion machines, ostensibly to "liberate" Muslim women from their "unwanted" pregnancies (IPPF's pitch), while Milosevic saw it as a way to cull the Muslim herd, but guess what? Muslim women rejected IPPF's "help." Of course, IPPF saw this as evidence of patriarchal brainwashing, but what else could it conclude? It will never allow that killing the unborn for convenience is intolerably evil.
Milosevic may not have started "ethnic cleansing" in Kosovo, but he sure did push it to its limits!
great now can dearbornistan be next? how about giving freedom to californixco ? after all the mexicans will be majority soon.
Lazar,
I don't believe everything in the media, but I still do tend to believe what the U.S. State Department reports. Milosevic had no "moral and legal rights on his side" to permit his soldiers to rape Muslim women, or to execute captives.
If your concern is for the Christians in Kosovo, then God bless them to live the example that Jesus gave. In this way they may win their Muslim neighbors to Christ, and if not, then at least they will know that they have tried. As in every situation, one hopes and prays that Christians will be able to practice their faith without fear of persecution, but that if it comes, they will give a good witness, as Jesus did in his trials.
A good article on the recent history of Kosovo, as well as revealing the string of lies that went in the making of an Islamic Kosovo
Independence in the Brave New World Order
NATO's Kosovo Colony
By DIANA JOHNSTONE
http://counterpunch.com/johnstone02182008.html
Oh yes, the US State Department is very reliable source in this case. They are completely neutral... :)
Where did you read that Milosevic permitted his soldiers to "rape Muslim women" and "execute captives"? That's complete nonsense. Some Serbian soldiers indeed commited war crimes and were convicted to years in prison by *Serbian courts of law*. No one gave them orders to commit war crimes, to the contrary. I was there by the way.
There was really ethnic cleansing. Albanians for decades persecuted Serbs and "cleansed" Kosovo under protection of communist government. And finished "cleansing" under protection of NATO forces.
Once again - think. Serbs could finish that in two days if they wanted to - we had army, thanks, war airplanes, artilerry... But the truth is - Serbs didn't want to "ethnically cleanse" Kosovo, KLA did and that's what they've done with Bill Clinton's help.
Lex
When Milosevik was in charge Serbia was in a civil war. Crimes happen in civil wars, just the nature of the thing. Serbian interests and people were under attack from the KLA, which in large part was supported by the people of Kosovo. The KLA was a mafia like Islamic terror organization bent on creating an Islamic state within the Serbian province of Kosovo. Miloseviks actions were taken only as a last resort after years of attacks. We came in on the wrong side on this one. There is no way around it. We rewarded the Islamic jihad in Kosovo with a state. That is wrong.
Lex
There has been a concerted attempt to frame the Serbs in the garb of the Nazis - how ironic.
Rapes are an instrument of Jihad, and you should know that. It is also well known that Muslims accuse the victims of the crimes that they themselves commit.
Serbs are accused of ethnic cleansing, and yet it is never mentioned that it was the Albanians that started ethnic cleansing in Kosovo. The driving out of a Albanian people, totally committed to take over Kosovo, took place only after NATO illegally attacked Serbia. Since the NATO occupation of Kosovo, some 250,000 Serbs have been driven out, presumably with the passive complicity of America and the UK.
So let us see if this thesis that Muslims are the first to engage in rapes, murder and ethnic cleansing, and then accuse the victims of those crimes.
Let us see now
1. Kashmir
2. northern Nigeria
3. southern Thailand
4. Phillipines
5. Cyprus
This is just in living memory, without having to delve into history books.
And yes, you are right on the matter of babies. Serbs, or for that matter noone can compete in the birth stakes with muslims. So what do you suggest we do in the West. Should every woman start to have 6 to 10 children? Even if that were possible, it wont stop Muslims. All it will do is to leave a nation bulging at the seams racked in poverty.
Witness
But bold faced lies are the ones that are succesfull. Nice to see you back.
Lazar, ethoman, witness, all,
I am teachable. I Google searched "albanian ethnic cleansing of serbs" and found, among other things, A Brief History Of Ethnic Cleansing Of Serbs In Kosovo - AOL Video which blames Tito for much of the problems in Kosovo, but that each side was guilty of "ethnic cleansing." I'll do more research, but I thought I'd post this for starters. :^)
Lex,
This is from "Yugoslavia - The Avoidable War". Here is complete documentary:
1. http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=5860186121153047571
2. http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=6371060303901674397
Have peace
Encouraging radical secessionist movements (especially ones based on a terrorist document like the Koran) is not the swiftest idea, geopolitically.
Look for the Basques, ad nauseam, to head back to the bomb-making shed.
21st century Balkanization, ho!
The dissolution of Civilization begins when its head forgets to hold its body together.
Sad but true observation. Speaking of truth, eventually it comes to light with research as Lex will soon discover.
Always look forward to your posts DP111.
OT-from LGF
(I'm not sure how accurate this is since I don't know the history myself. Maybe someone here can tell us.)
http://www.historyofjihad.org/albania.html
You can hope and pray all you want but that is why Bethleham and Jerusalem are no longer Christian. If you are meek the muslims will run you down and not look back on their way to the next victim.
Isn't there something about a time to fight in the bible? If not then Christians will surely disappear because the muslims will NEVER stop until christians are gone and if they are too weak to fight back they will be just another name in the history books.
Sad, really, because with them will go the independant thought that has brought the world out of the dark ages. It will soon return if muslims take over. The end of science and art.
OT- I hate to see any country in Europe become muslim. But it looks like they all will if they don't get together and organize to fight soon. Because muslims will NEVER stop.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e2KKwj7AnzU
(with other similar videos related)
In other news, Serbia recalls its ambassador to the US, and India, which was quick to recognize the independence of Slovenia and Croatia, has refrained from recognizing Kosovo's independence. Makes sense, unless they want the rest of the world to recognize Kashmir whenever they make such a declaration.
Posted by: DP111
1. Kashmir
2. northern Nigeria
3. southern Thailand
4. Phillipines
5. Cyprus
And what horrors we would face should we delve into history books
The Skull Tower (Serbian: Ћеле Кула, or Ćele Kula) is a monument to 19th century Serbian rebels. It is situated in Niš, on Zoran Đinđić Boulevard, on the old Constantinople road leading to Sofia.
On May 31, 1809 on Čegar Hill a few kilometers northeast of Niš, Serbian insurrectionists suffered their greatest defeat in the First Serbian Uprising against the Ottoman Empire (1804-1813). The insurrectionists' advance towards Niš was stopped here and, when the far stronger Turkish forces attacked, the battle was ended by the Serbian commander Stevan Sinđelić, who sacrificially fired at his gunpowder depot in order to avoid surrendering to the Turks, killing himself, the rest of his men, and the advancing Turks.
After the retreat of the Serbian rebel army, the Turkish commander of Niš, Hurshid Pasha, ordered that the heads of the killed Serbians were to be mounted on a tower to serve as a warning to any other would-be revolutionaries. In all, 952 skulls were included, with the skull of Sindjelić placed at the top. The scalps from the skulls were stuffed with cotton and sent to Constantinople (modern Istanbul) as proof for Sultan Mahmud II.
http://illustratedpig.blogspot.com/2008/02/five-pillars-of-islam.html
"I don't like the idea of a Muslim State in Europe, but, frankly, I don't see how Serbia can possibly govern the place if it's 2 million people are determined to be independent. It would be a never-ending civil war, and I believe the Serbs would come to regret trying to hold on to it by force.
It's a simple question of reality."
Posted by: rational
Let's apply the same rationale to the US with its Native Indians on reserves, to the illegal immigrants from Mexico and the possibility of say California announcing its independence from the US as a Latin state.
There's way more than 2 million people we are talking about here, so in reality this scenario should be accepted by any US government. If we look at this scenario we realize how utterly insane this whole business of partitioning Yugoslavia on behalf of Islamic aggressors truly is.
Shame on Bill Clinton, George Bush, Richard Holbrooke and every other criminal who made this a reality.
There is a saying that goes something like:
“There is so much history in the Balkans that they can’t help but share.”
I saw a show on the Spetsnatz last night, wow. Wars can boost national pride, which Putin is looking to do along with the reproduction rallies. America is broke and overextended. Russia is flush with cash and rearming.
I agree with Frank’s comment.
Posted by: Borg
(I'm not sure how accurate this is since I don't know the history myself. Maybe someone here can tell us.)
It is pretty much accurate
One thing is very sick is how the Nazi/Muslims formed the The 21st SS Division Skanderbeg
George Kastrioti Skenderbeu widely known as Skanderbeg, is one of the most prominent historical figures in the history of Albania and of the Albanian people. He is also known as the Dragon of Albania and is the national hero of the Albanians. He is remembered for his struggle against the Ottoman Empire, whose armies he successfully ousted from his native land for two decades.
The flag we have seen so much of the last few days the double headed eagle
Double-headed eagle emblem of the Byzantine Empire. The head on the left (West) symbolizes Rome, the head on the right (East) symbolizes Constantinople.
Seems like the Albanians need to look at their history
As an American I am ashamed of what my government has done in Bosnia and Serbia. It was embarrassing, but revealing, that Bush received a joyous reception during his recent trip to Albania (but fitting that his watch was stolen!). It is further embarrassing and distressing to see the American flag flown alongside the Albanian flag in the Pristina celebrations of the last few days. The celebrants are usually described as being, not Kosovars, not Serbs, but "ethnic Albanians"!
None of the presidential aspirants in the upcoming American election appears to offer any hope for a fundamental departure from the insane M.E. foreign policies that the U.S. have been pursued starting with Carter. So it appears that we'll have Obama or Clinton or McCain running the show here for at least the next four years. The damage done by Bush has been considerable, not just in foreign affairs but also in terms of domestic policies. In the wake of Buh's tenure it will take the Conservatives some time to redefine themselves, and hopefully this can be done in time for the midterm elections in two years, certainly for the next presidential in 2008.
In the meantime I'm afraid that the world is going to have to look to themselves to solve their problems, or otherwise find ways to look after their own interests. But please know that there is a considerable segment of America, not represented by our current administration, that is rooting for Serbia. We just don't have an effective mechanism for expressing this. Sites such as JW are performing invaluable services in providing crucial information that is needed to understand the underlying forces at work in the present and upcoming conflicts that are building around Saudi-financed Islamic aggression.
The only bright spot I see is that there is likely to be ongoing and continued support for Israel. It is true that Israel is well represented in the U.S., but this representation has been legitimately gained by American Jews actively participating fully in both our economic system and in our representative system of democracy. Most Americans aren't fooled by the mushy rhetoric of our politicians who can't call things by their right names, or swayed by the PC rhetoric that dominates our popular culture . Our politicians to the contrary, most Americans are perfectly well aware of the source of the current mayhem in the M.E. And most of us support Israel for the simple reason that they are, by and large, the only sane group in the entire Middle East, and their world view and value system are those of the West.
Supporting an independent Kosovo amounts to Nato and the west punishing the Serbs for war crimes in the 1990's.
It is a fact that war crimes happened on both sides, however, the western media simply did not cover the war crimes that occurred by the Albanians against the Serbs.
Many westerners have been misinformeed about Kosovo and the Nato military (air) assault in the 1990's.
Associating the Serbs with the Nazis is not uncommon in the west
The reporting of the Kosovo conflict in the mid 1990's was a lot more balanced in Russia than the coverage in the west.
Unfortunately, Russia was a weak power in the 1990's and they did not intervene on behalf of the victimized Serbs.
Today, Russia is a lot stronger and could easily disrupt and intrude upon U.S. foreign policies in the world, most especially with the U.S. shouting match with Iran.
Is Kosovo really worth more to U.S. interests than gaining leverage against Iran?
Strangely enough, with the Bush administration calling the shots, it looks like it is.
My prediction is that Russia will now become a much sharper thorn in the side of the U.S. concerning the nuclear issue in Iran. The U.S. can't see the big picture with foreign policy issues.
Supporting an independent Kosovo will come back to sting the U.S.
Expect more heat and friction between the U.S. and Russia in the days to come.
Lex"Milosevic was a bloody monster"
Yes, he destroyed Tokyo with one swipe of his tail and ate babies for breakfast too. You're soooooo right. I heard he had 10 eyes and fire came out of his mouth. If anyone even so much as looked at him, they'd turn to stone. It's all true, Lex. Now when you mumsie is cross with you, she'll tell you that that "bloody monster" is going to get you.
So, if he really was Mr-Evil-on-legs pray tell why not a single prosecution witness from the ICTY case against him in the Kosovo section finished testifying with even a shred of dignity and/or credibility in tact?
Here's a bet. You go to the ICTY webpage, chose from any of the 100 + prosecution witnesses in the Kosovo section and we'll go over how god awful terrible they were. You choose the witness. Any of them will do.
http://www.un.org/icty/cases-e/index-e.htm
Remember that the ICTY has a budget of a quarter of a billion a year, with all the political will to get a conviction whilst their nemesis, Slobo AKA Mr. Monster, had a public telephone which was regularly out of order, a computer with no internet connection, a pencil, some paper, and the documents the prosecution gave him often weren't translated. So, if you're right about Slobo, I'm sure you could find a credible witness against him in the Kosovo section.
I'm looking forward to hearing from you.
Also, Lex, why have you kept quiet about the crimes of the jihadist KLA? They got huge support from Bin Laden. You have heard of him, I take it? 9 11? Ring any bells? WTC? It was in the news a lot a few years ago. Even MTV had it, well I'd assume they did a bit on it. So you must have seen it.
Great posts, ssa and Britannia's Lion
witness:"Does anyone believe seriously, that the KLA will stop at Kosovo? Of course not; Serbia, you are next!"
Yep, too true. And Macedonia, Montenegro and Greece. Soon everybody will be living in a pill box.
Woooooooeeeeeee
rational:"I really don't disagree with most of what you've said, BUT"
and
"I don't like the idea of a Muslim State in Europe, BUT"
Deary deary me, rational, so many BUTs.
ethoman:"Were it not for outside forces getting involved I believe the Serbs would have a handle on this now."
Very true. The Serb security forces really wiped out the effectiveness of the KLA in 98, then the KVM came in, organised a ceasefire, which the Serbs obeyed and the KLA didn't, elements of the KVM helped rearm the KLA, blah blah blah
A sideish note. After the KLA/NATO took over Kosovo, one of the first groups to be targetted were the Pristina Jews, who were torched out of their homes by KLA units. Jewish leaders in the city complained to nearby NATO officers who just looked on at the looting of Jewish property. Now, imagine if it had've been Slobo and his forces who had've wiped out the Jewish community. You'd never, ever have heard the end of it. EVER. Forever and a day, you'd have had interviews, reconstructions of the events, analysis, comparisons with the GESTAPO and Albanian Fascists, death camps, etc.
One final point, Lex, If the Serbs deserved it, as you claimed, then does that mean that the civilians of WTC deserved it too?
Sorry. One more thing.
dgene:"Wake up America."
Well well said that man. How such a truly great country can get it wrong soooooooo badly is just, well.......
Provoslavni:"Radio and television in both Moscow and Belgrade quote a leader of the pro-Putin movement "Nashi" as saying that Russia is preparing to parachute up to 100,000 spetznaz troops into Kosovo if needed to protect Serbia interests."
If true, that is indeed truly wonderful news.
Go Putin.
Sideish point numero deuxieme: I think that the security forces sometimes don't deserve all the criticism they often get. Putin's ex KGB and look at him transform Russia. Bush Sr is ex CIA and he did a great job - granted he sucked up to the Wahabbis which is admittedly a big stain against him- and the CIA were big critics of the Iraq and Afghanistan ventures too - hence the Valerie Plame expose - and they've been thoroughly vindicated by events there.
Granted, sometimes the criticism is warranted. cough
Why blame Bush, he was only following the footsteps of all the Ameriki presidents since Eisenhower
Dwight D.Eisenhower
Bombing Indonesia in 1958
John Fitzgerald "Jack" Kennedy
In 1963, the Kennedy administration backed a coup against the government of Iraq headed by General Abdel Karim Kassem, who five years earlier had deposed the Western-allied Iraqi monarchy. The CIA helped the new Baath Party government led by Abdul Salam Arif in ridding the country of suspected leftists and Communists. In a Baathist bloodbath, the government used lists of suspected Communists and other leftists provided by the CIA, to systematically murder untold numbers of Iraq's educated elite — killings in which Saddam Hussein himself is said to have participated. The victims included hundreds of doctors, teachers, technicians, lawyers and other professionals as well as military and political figures.
Lyndon B. Johnson
Assisting Suharto and islam to take control of Indonesia
1,000,000 slaughtered
Tricky Dicky
Was vice president to Eisenhower
Bombing Indonesia in 1958
Gerald Ford
Gave the wink for East Timor to be invaded
300,000 dead
Jimmy the Peanut
Jew Hater
Ronny The Cowboy
Supplied Iraq weapon, including gas which he used on his own people
Papa Bush
Wouldn't finish Saddam who went on to murder 100.000 of helpless people
Willy Clinton
Bombed the Serbs for the moslems while his meat was being chewed
Baby Bush
Islamofascisn is a religion of peace
Baby Bush
Islamofascisn is a religion of peace
So this latest betrayal doesn't surprise me
http://illustratedpig.blogspot.com/2008/02/dont-know-shit.html
ewha1 the snarkmeister apparently has trouble comprehending what he reads.
He writes, "Lex, If the Serbs deserved it, as you claimed, then does that mean that the civilians of WTC deserved it too?"
What I wrote is that Milosevic "BROUGHT IT ON HIMSELF AND SERBIA," and, "My focus was on Milosevic and the attention from NATO that his brutal policies attracted, which is another way of saying that he could have, and should have, handled things much differently."
Please explain the WTC/bombing of Serbia analogy It is exceedingly obscure to me.
I'm sorry to have to disappoint you, but I'm not about to read through the miles and miles of ICTY trial transcripts to verify your assertion of what? Slobo's complete innocence? Give me the "Cliff Notes" version instead, if THAT is indeed your argument, thank you.
Here's a useful, condensed read: http://www.crimesofwar.org/thebook/bosnia.html
"Also, Lex, why have you kept quiet about the crimes of the jihadist KLA?" ~ewha1
"Have I excused whatever monstrous deeds the Albanian Muslims may have perpetrated against their Christian neighbors? I have not." ~Lex, the first line of my February 18, 2008 9:50 PM comment to "witness"
Yugoslavia was one of the few genuinely multicultural states in Europe. And so in the interests of multiculturalism, Blair and Clinton destroyed Yugoslavia, and replaced it with "multicultural" statelets that are of one ethnicity or religion. Ironically, it is Serbia that has a significant Muslim population - and one that was responsible for the election of the pro-EU candidate in the recent knife edge election in Serbia.
So will the Jihad against Serbia, aided and abetted by the US and the UK, stop? Not a chance. The Muslim population in Serbia, as is the norm, is increasing fast, and will eventually demand their own state. Of course, as far as the US is concerned, this will be yet again, a "unique" case. It seems "unique" cases, are cases of exemption from international law, apply only to Serbia.
NATO's war against Serbia to dismember a sovereign state, was totally illegal, and in violation of the UN charter. The disgrace of this action is augmented by the fact, that it was done by two nations who pride themselves in the rule of law - the USA and the UK. Worse still, they are both permanent members of the Security Council. How and why should any member of the UN take any heed of these two nations, when in future they claim that their actions are founded on principle and the rule of law.
It is worth remembering that the KFOR mandate is legal only so long as it is maintained by the Security council. If Russia refuses to renew the mandate, KFOR, EU forces and other replacements, become invading and occupying forces, illegal in international law. Then any state can mount an operation, any state and any operation, with assured UN blessing, to remove the primary cause of the illegality. The US and the UK will have no piece of paper to behind - it is this sorry mess that our idiot politicians have led us into.
It is unlikely that Russia or China will let the US off this hook. In fact, it wouldnt surprise me that the Russians and the Chinese are quite satisfied to see the US get sucked in. Their actions will come to light only when the Security Council mandate is not renewed.
Unfortunately some Serbs' Jew-hatred is not only on par with their anti-Albanian/Moslem feelings but outdoes it.
During the U.S.-led NATO offensive against Milosovic's Serbia, the propaganda emanating from the Clinton government likened Serb resistance to the Albanian Moslems to the Genocide perpetrated by the German Nazis against the Jews of the world. Jews in the U.S., ever siding with whomever appears to be the "victim," sympathized with the fleeing Albanian Moslems who on TV were portrayed as the victims of a genocide.
Jews, until very recently, were on the whole uninformed about Islam and its design for world-domination. Unfamiliar with the Koran and the Jew-hatred integral to Islamic teachings of Mohammed, they bought into the whine of Islamic "victimhood."
There were, and still are, plenty of misguided Jews who feel the pain of the "Palestinian" Arab Moslems. That is why Moslem Arabs are sitting in the Knesset and given full Israeli citizenship in Israel.
The Jew-hatred of some Serbs does not endear them to Jews who are facing the same Islamic enemy as the Serbs. Who benefits most from Serbian Jew-hatred? The Islamics of course, who like nothing better than to see their opposition divided and fighting amongst itself.
The Jew-hatred of some Serbs is only outdone by that of the Croats--who embraced the Nazi antisemitism wholeheartedly and without reservations.
Now, that we have seen the problem, is there a solution? If the Serbs were to lay aside their Jew-hatred--if only for the duration of the war against the jihad--and concentrate on trying to keep Moslems out of Europe as they did for centuries, their cause would be better served.
As for the Jews, they do not have an inbred hatred of Serbs. Some Jewish-Americans misguided sympathy for Clinton-bolstered "Kosovars" was not based on hatred of Serbs but on empathy for the apparent "victims." Moslems are always good at playing the role of "victims."
Although accused of hatred of non-Jews by their enemies, Jews as a whole suffer from lack of this emotion as deplored by Ben Hecht:
"What we dream of is—Jews strong enough and honest enough to hate their killers …" --Ben Hecht
The west is not for freedom and Demoncracy the west is a brutal dictator and evil if it was not for US and UK kosovo would still be serbia and bosnia will still be serbia and evreything would be ok.
I think the serbs made am mistake by voting for a pro western Serb leader in the recent elections they should have voted for the nationalist party that wanted closer ties to russia to punish the west because the west deserve's to be punished for what they have done to serbia. I hope russia continues helping iran maybe if the west is brought down we wouldnt have this problem and the uk deserves to be taken over by muslims i hope it is one day and maybe serbs can say give muslims there rights and laugh
Lex: I'm shocked that you are unable to name a single witness who was even slightly credible in the Kosovo section of the ICTY trial.
Shocked do you hear.
Shocked.
Lex:"Please explain the WTC/bombing of Serbia analogy It is exceedingly obscure to me.'
Well it's those chappies called Muslim Brotherhood. They target spotted in their dozens for NATO bombers and Al Qaeda morphed from them. I know it's a really tenuous connection, but, hey, that's me.
Lex: I'm shocked that you are unable to name a single witness who was even slightly credible in the Kosovo section of the ICTY trial.
Shocked do you hear.
Shocked.
Lex:"Please explain the WTC/bombing of Serbia analogy It is exceedingly obscure to me.'
Well it's those chappies called Muslim Brotherhood. They target spotted in their dozens for NATO bombers and Al Qaeda morphed from them. I know it's a really tenuous connection, but, hey, that's me.