And the mullahs are moving swiftly to stop it by enacting a law to enforce Muhammad's dictum: "'If somebody (a Muslim) discards his religion, kill him.'"
"Iran: Parliament to discuss death penalty for converts who leave Islam," from AKI (thanks to Morgaan Sinclair):
Tehran, 19 March (AKI) - In its first session since last week's general elections, the new Iranian parliament is expected to discuss a law that will condemn to death anyone who decides to leave the Muslim faith and convert to other religions.The parliament, also known as the Majlis, will debate the new law which has been presented by the government of President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad.
Under the proposed law, anyone who is born to Muslim parents and decides to convert to another faith, will face the death penalty.
Currently converts, particularly those who have decided to leave the Muslim faith for Evangelical churches, are arrested and then released after some years of detention.
The new legislation, which has caused concern in Iran and abroad, was proposed mainly because of fears of proselytising activities by Evangelical churches particularly through the use of satellite channels.
There has also been concern over fact that many young people in Iran have abandoned Islam because they're tired of the many restrictions imposed by the faith.
According to unofficial sources, in the past five years, one million Iranians, particularly young people and women, have abandoned Islam and joined Evangelical churches.
This phenomenon has surprised even the missionaries who carry out their activities in secret in Iran.
An Evangelical priest and former Muslim in Iran told Adnkronos International (AKI) that the conversions were "interesting, enthusiastic but very dangerous".
"The high number of conversions is the reason that the government has decided to make the repression of Christians official with this new law," said the priest on condition of anonymity.
"Often we get to know about a new community that has been formed, after a lot of time, given that the people gather in homes to pray and often with rituals that they invent without any real spiritual guide," he told AKI.
"We find ourselves facing what is more than a conversion to the Christian faith," he said. "It's a mass exodus from Islam."...
Islam must not have much faith if it must inact a death penalty for those wanting to leave. But then, Islam isnt a faith based "religion" is it?
Perhaps these apostates don't feel like being held hostage anymore to a "religion" that prescribes killing them if they leave it.
Just a guess.
Robert,
Thanks once again for showing to the world that you are a zionist, missionary Christian fundamentalist!
/moonbat
Praise God for all the souls who have abandoned Muhammad's religion. News like those are the nightmare of Muslims who like to point to numbers as a way to validate their religion.
>>Muslims who like to point to numbers as a way to validate their religion.
Posted by: Crusader at March 19, 2008 9:12 AM
Which is funny considering that that numerical "validation" is due to over-the-top birthrate, and nothing else.
Looks to me like a sign of desperation on the part of the government. Given the fact that they are typically out of touch with the society that they are ruling--Ahmadinejad's statement about there not being any gays in Iran comes to mind--the fact that they have clearly noticed and are concerned about the large numbers of people leaving Islam indicates that they are fearful of losing control. I wouldn't be surprised if Iran ceases to be a majority-Muslim country altogether when this regime has been consigned to the dustbin of history, as it will be eventually, one way or another. (Times change-it eventually happens to all governments.)
"fears of proselytising activities by Evangelical churches particularly through the use of satellite channels."
We sometimes get caught up with the fact that so much being broadcast to us today is so foul. (e.g. pornography, violence, MSM lies, etc)
But this is a very good reminder of the efficacy of modern technology (satellite, internet, etc) of transmitting the good as well as the bad throughout the world.
If Islam was a religion confident in its own message and ability to uplift its followers and bring genuine Spiritual meaning to their lives, it would not have to worry about such broadcasts and would not need to pass laws condemning to death anyone who changes religions.
It is only because of the spiritual vacuousness of Islam that they need to pass such harsh preventative measures.
"Which is funny considering that that numerical "validation" is due to over-the-top birthrate, and nothing else."
That and threat of death if you leave.
That and threat of death if you leave.
Posted by: Elric66 at March 19, 2008 9:36 AM
Right, Elric. The high (understatement) birthrate and fear of death penalty due to apostasy.
Muslims who like to point to numbers as a way to validate their religion.
Posted by: Crusader at March 19, 2008 9:12 AM
I don't think that it is possible to accurately track the numbers of people leaving Islam anyway, given the fact that those who do so usually try to keep a low profile, and often are afraid to tell even family members or friends. Even in the west they have to fear for their safety. The numbers available (when available) are always rough estimates-and probably on the low side.
For example, if approximately one million Iranians have converted to evangelical Christianity, what about those who have left Islam but have given up on religion altogether, or have become Buddhist, or Zoroastrian, etc...?
What about those who technically remain only Muslim in name, but would abandon the religion completely if they had the freedom to do so? I've said before, and I firmly believe, that most converts to Islam (particularly western converts) probably end up leaving eventually. Some men nominally convert to Islam in order to marry a Muslim woman, and never consider themselves to be Muslim. When will they adjust their data to take such factors into account?
The Church (like a stream)will grow stronger and be purified if driven underground.
Satan is terrified of the people leaving his cult, he cannot control what people believe in their hearts.
Speaking of Iran...
"Perhaps ironically, ordinary Muslims in Iran seem not to care about the Wilders film. TV programme Nova interviewed Teheranis on the streets and reported that many of them admired the Netherlands' freedom of speech. A rather orthodox-looking elderly woman applauded Wilders' film plan, saying Iran was "more immoral now" than it was under the Shah."
http://kleinverzet.blogspot.com/
(The site is definitely worth checking, by the way. I came across it just now.)
http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1205420700653&pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FShowFull
No! Why would anyone leave Islam in Iran?! They must be crazy!
This link might answer that perplexing question: Why do young people leave Islam? http://www.memritv.org/clip/en/1717.htm
No! Why would anyone leave Islam in Iran?! They must be crazy!
This link might answer that perplexing question: Why do young people leave Islam? "http://www.memritv.org/clip/en/1717.html"
Well, Iran might as well pass a law making all Mohammad's pronouncement official law. If Mohammad said it, it's good enough. Shari'a law was designed to become secular law anyway.
Iran is an example of how this works.
We don't force anyone to follow our religion, we just kill people who don't, and some who do.
From Article: Under the proposed law, anyone who is born to Muslim parents and decides to convert to another faith, will face the death penalty.
Well, this is exactly the issue with Obama, as far as a muslim connection is concerned. When he becomes President, he will be an apostate to Iran, by law. His muslim father is common knowledge.
I think Egypt also has adopted this view officially. Possibly others. Would this mean that President Obama could safely meet face to face, with Beasty Boy Ahmadinijad, who is obligated by both Shari'a and secular law he represents, to kill him?
Would Obama, on a 'friendly' mission, be treated as well as Beasty was in the US, or would he be arrested? Would diplomatic immunity trump the combination of Shari'a and secular law?
I doubt any of this will come up with Islam, as long as Barack is soft and compliant, but if he angers them, the lid of Pandora's box will pop open, and all kinds of things will come crawling out. And this is just 'one' reason Obama might not be the best choice for president...
Re: "Under the proposed law, anyone who is born to Muslim parents and decides to convert to another faith, will face the death penalty."
The inspiration for this "new" law comes from the Quran, Muslim's "holy book."
Death sentences for any Iranian that abandons Islam?
These draconian tactics by Iranian religious authorities are cult like ( mind control) and don't allow the average Iranian to use his own free will to choose and exercise his own religious freedom.
This "new" law must be challenged and eliminated.
Remember this story next time you want to bomb Iran. Iranian victims, especially little ones, may discourage conversions to Christianity.
"Exodus"?
LOL!
Islam: a faith shaped like a coffin.
Sounds like hysteria to me. If so many people were really leaving their Korans behind they would have gotten hold of the dirty old pervs running Iran and strung them all up from cranes by now.
One hopes this will be happening soon in any event.
For those other Christians who follow this site, it may be worth while to look at this site.
It goes into more than just the Jihad and Dhimmi issues like this one.
It is also very interesting to speculate that all the tightening of shari law, and more attempts to fulfill the murder apostates dictate of Mo in these areas, is a reaction to growing apostasy from Islam.
With 1 million converts, this must have been going on for some time. They are scared, and trying to force and dictate what can not be supported by persuasion or reason.
"And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it."
If this story is true then why is the mainstream media hiding it?
Possibly because they are anti-Christian?
Piss on a cross, outlaw Christianity, turn the other cheek.
Draw a cartoon, riots in the streets.
It's hard to take this story at face value. The chances are that these reactionary bastards would view 3 conversions in the same week as a "mass exodus".
And one has to wonder if they actually used the all too appropriate word "exodus" to describe the situation.
But if only it were true. How sweet would that be?
Speaking as an atheist I could only say thank God!
:-)
"Some men nominally convert to Islam in order to marry a Muslim woman, and never consider themselves to be Muslim."
Yes, a relative of mine did just that several years ago in order to marry a lovely Iranian woman. Her family was very secular, but of course, they still followed the prohibition against a Muslim womam marrying a non-Muslim. However, they were later divorced, and since then my relative has married a Christian and has had two kids whom he sends to Christian schools, etc.
Similarly, I have a childhood friend who converted to Islam to marry a Bosnian Muslim about 6 or 7 years ago. They too have since divorced, and she now says she is no longer a Muslim.
I occasionally wonder if either of these people realizes that he or she should technically be put to death?
It sounds like the mullahs are having a hard time keeping up with their fatwas and murdering of their people. Maybe they just need a breather.
"And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it."
Posted by: Lorgan
True. Satan himself cannot prevail, leave alone a dead and rotting brigand and paedophile.
Surprisingly, Zoroastrianism, which is native to Iran, does not take converts, even in America.
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/09/06/us/06faith.html?scp=3&sq=Zoroaster&st=nyt
"Surprisingly, Zoroastrianism, which is native to Iran, does not take converts, even in America."
That's not the only difference between Zoroastrianism and Islam...
"Mr. Dastur is a priest in much demand to perform ceremonies because of his melodic chanting of the prayers. He and his wife, Jo Ann, have two grown daughters. Neither married a Zoroastrian.
'They’re good human beings,' Mr. Dastur said. 'That’s more important to me.'"
"Zoroastrians believe in free will, so in matters of religion they do not believe in compulsion. They do not proselytize."
"...while the Zoroastrians in the group adored their faith and wanted to teach it to their children, they in no way wanted to compel their spouses to convert."
(I thought, though, that there was some division amongst Zoroastrians whether or not to accept converts, rather than an outright prohibition?)
Where can I donate to organizations which proselytize effectively in places like Iran?
So, if barack obama WAS born a muslim and is MOW a christian isn't he at risk of being assassinated because he's now an apostate??
How long I wonder
Hyman Roth
The Barnabas fund may be what you are looking for.
http://www.barnabasfund.org/
one million Iranians, particularly young people and women, have abandoned Islam and joined Evangelical churches.well if it keeps up islam will truly be show as the cult it is funny thing in a a way the romans tried the same tactic and the roman empire in part died became the Byzantium empire that was christian and they tried the same tacic the mullas are trying now so iguess history is repeating itself
i would seem the more a goverment tries to drive out and persacute christ and the followers of the true faith the stronger we become
Iran: "We find ourselves facing what is more than a conversion to the Christian faith. It's a mass exodus from Islam"
More like: The Iron Curtain of Islam
Laws like those may well just increase conversions to non-Muslim faiths.
If it wasn´t clear to anyone before, it should be clear by now that Ahmadenijad is a complete and utter -- what?
I was going to call him a madman or nut, but he´s not mad in any clinical sense. I was going to call him an idiot, but he´s not mentally handicapped. And can one call him evil, when he apparently doesn´t know he´s evil?
What a strange monstrosity, what an unnameable thing...a rotten fruit that is neither evil nor mad, but in some strange twilight zone between.
RalphInfidel, that´s excellent. The death sentence, for Islamic apostasy is a spiritual iron curtain!
ISLAMSFORLOSERS said: "Sounds like hysteria to me. If so many people were really leaving their Korans behind they would have gotten hold of the dirty old pervs running Iran and strung them all up from cranes by now."
I understand your skepticism and there have been other stats that I have heard such as the Egyptian Imam who everyone quotes as saying (without a source) that 6 million Muslims around the world become Christians every year. That one is likely designed to encourage donations to Muslim charities and encourage fear of Christians
But there is evidence of growing trends of both secular apostasy (Western ex-Muslim support agencies forming and being more outspoken) and Christian evangelism making gains in the Islamic world. All the major languages, Turkish, Arabic, Urdu, Farsi etc. are represented by broadcasts of nonpolitical Christian evangelistic content and also political opposition programming and it is being accessed in both the home nations of Dar al-Islam and European immigrant communities.
The reason there has not been an uprising in Iran is the same that as that in Cuba or North Korea; a small number of powerful people and a slightly bigger number of people with no hesitation to use violence can hold back political change - for a time. That one million still lives in the same neighborhoods and cities as the over 60 million Muslims and no one in these communities knows for certain which ones are secular and how many are psychopathic.
Kaffirchick made a good point about people who are nominal Muslims due to marriage or assumed to be adherents due to ancestry. I heard that a survey of religions in France showed that only 4% self identified as Muslims as opposed to the 10% labeled as Muslim by statisticians due to assumptions.
As Islam begins to deteriorate and the number of people who are able to generate fear slips and the number who are willing to feel that fear also falls there will likely be two trends in the believers: Extremists will become more extreme and those in denial about both extremism and apostasy will become more frantic in their insistence that all is well in Islam.
As a secular person I have no great desire to see charismatic, conservative Christianity spread around the world but as an option to Islam I am willing to cheer the evangelists on in their endeavor. The whole "all religions are wrong" does not fly when you are talking about Islam. Islam is not a religion but something far larger and more encompassing.
Hhmmm... does anyone remember that other quasi-religion that would kill you if you tried to leave: Communism. The Berlin Wall was built to keep people IN.
Saul Wall wrote: "Islam is not a religion but something far larger and more encompassing."
That's right, Saul, Islam is an ULTRA-VIOLENT SUPREMACIST, TOTALITARIAN THUG CULT.
Amen and Amen.
Hyman Roth:
Reza Safa is a converted Iranian Muslim who is beaming the message of Christ into Iran in Farsi, his native tongue. His church is in Tulsa, OK, which I think it called Fisherman's Church (I had to look it up once for an Arab friend of mine). You can google it and find him. I'm sure he needs financial support for the sacrifice he is making. He is not with an organization. . . Anyway, I remember hearing him say that he was overwhelmed with the responses he was getting from those in Iran. The stories I heard were just incredible. He has received many death threats, of course, for the work that he is doing. However, God has always protected him.
Hyman Roth:
CNWEA is a papal agency ( Roman Catholic) that is working to bring Christ to the near east, including many Muslim countries.
Here is their website:
http://www.cnewa.org/default.aspx
Death for not believing what your are told to believe? I think that says it all really. If they were convinced of the truth of their own religion why would they want to force people to be a member (or in many cases pretend to be a member)?
Their arguments are unravelling by the day as people wake up to truth about mohammed and the cult he invented for personal political power.
Killing someone for not believing what you want them to? That's no religion whatever way you cut it.
Finally, people, both muslim and non-muslim are waking up.
"quasi-religion"
Interesting, and true. Islam is just a caustic blend of senseless Arab paganism, miunderstood Judaism and a marketing campaign (called 'Jihad') that is somewhat out of the ordinary.
It's so good to see people getting themselves a proper religion.
The great Jim Dunnegan of Strategy Page predicted some time ago that Iran would slough off Islam. He didn't specifically say that they would convert to Christianity, as maybe they would go back to Zoroastrianism.
Jews and Christians are descendants of apes and pigs according to the Koran.
Well, well, well.
Since there are no ape and no pig in the Arabian Desert, Arabs are most likely descendants of scorpions, lizards and snakes; thereby their sleazy character. They are evidently not acting like descendants of Homo sapiens...
On the other hand thug-in-chief Ahmadenijad looks more like a monkey. He doesn’t look like a brave Persian descendant.
Like the magnificent Cyrus the Great for example! “Tolerant in religious matters, he allowed the worship of native gods and permitted the exiled Jews to return to Jerusalem (537).” -American Heritage Dictionary.
Not so with the stupid Mullahs who are destroying the precious historical past of their country.
Ahhh, they are certainly not descendants of Homo sapiens.
They are descendants of Ayatollah Khomeini!