Pakistan: Protesters demonstrate against bin Laden, violence in Islam's name

Looks like the millions of pounds the UK gave to Pakistan madrassas to encourage them to be moderate and like us hasn't worked.

Time to stop all aid to these countries.

It is quite amazing the lengths people will go to so that their bubble of unreality is not popped. They want the West to use their greatest weapon against dangerous and supremacist doctrines ie free speech and make a special case to protect dangerous and supremacist doctrines from any critical examination by denying that free speech.

Hard one this, shouldn't be though but the West in bending over backwards to accomodate, is exposing it's rear end to all manner of mighty kicks. Question is how much pain can one take until you say enough!

As members of other beliefs and faiths in the West may say: "welcome to the real world!"

It would seem, I reckon, that those millions of pounds were put to good use after all, judging by these results. Maybe it's time to try and stop making the rest of the world like us?

Pakistan: Protesters demonstrate against bin Laden, violence in Islam's name.

Dear Robert,

First I get excited, then disappointed. Could you also put the "Just kidding" in a large font?

(some of us have high blood pressure,lol!)

Just kidding,,no, not really :)

Just been looking up the aid given by the Danes to various muslim nations. Its hard to make sense of the figures but:

2004/5 8.5 Mill Afghanistan: 6 mill Palestinians: 3.5 million Pakistan: Indonesia 9 mill: Sudan 8.5 Mill.

There are other figures not relating to the Dutch alone but they obviously contribute to EU Funds.

2006; 50 million to West Bank & Gaza; 50 Million Lebanon; 40 Million Sudan

This does not include technical or other such aid.

Also

Primary schools in Pakistan can count on Dutch support in the next few years, with €30 million now earmarked for 2006. This was announced by Development Minister Agnes van Ardenne at her meeting today with the Pakistani Prime Minister Shaukat Aziz. In Pakistan, as elsewhere, children need to go to school, and the Netherlands wants to help them to do so over the next few years. Special focus will be placed on the pre-school development of young children, and on the quality of teaching and teaching materials. This means that the Netherlands will be expanding its development programme in Pakistan to include education.

Also

Aid agencies in Denmark have managed to collect 1.3 million euros to help earthquake victims in Pakistan, Ritzau news bureau reported on Wednesday.
Five major aid organizations in Denmark, including Danchurch Aid, Save the Children, Unicef, the Red Cross, and Doctors Without Borders, have joined forces to raise the funds

Europe is Pakistan's largest trading partner receiving 27.4% of Pakistan's exports and providing 17% of its total imports. In 2005 alone, EU imports from Pakistan totalled €3.4 billion in 2005. Between 2002-2006, the EU provided €125 million in aid to Pakistan. After the 8 October 2005 earthquake, the EU provided a further € 93.6 million in humanitarian aid. The EU has also concluded a so-called "third-generation" agreement with Pakistan, which includes initiatives in trade, development, economic programmes, energy, tourism, regional co-operation and science and technology. Under the agreement, an EU-Pakistan Joint Commission has been set up.

And they want to boycott us !

People, a must-read from "Sons of Apes and Pigs" website: "Geert Wilders: 1400 years ago war was declared on us by a barbarian who called himself the prophet"

http://www.sonsofapesandpigs.org/2008/03/geert-wilders-1400-years-ago-w.html

I'm with Gramfan. The headline brought a smile to my face. For one second I thought I was going to read about the many "peaceful" Muslims we have been assured are out there, especially in Pakistan. Not that I wouldn't have been skeptical but it would be nice to see, anyway. Then I read that you were just kidding. The day you don't have to make up such a headline is a day to look forward to.

"The protesters also torched the flags of Denmark and Israel."

If this were as far as the protesters went, I could accept it. Flag burning is seen as freedom of expression in the US. Of course, the day Muslims burned their own flag to protest their own government would be nice, too.

Addressing the demonstrators, Alama Akhtar Abbas, Khateeb Markazi Jamia Masjid; Alama Amin Shahidi, Ali Komail Haider and others condemned the blasphemous acts by the Danish newspaper and release of the sacrilegious film in Holland. They also termed the blasphemous acts a conspiracy against Islam.

It's not blasphemy or sacrilegious if you don't believe in Allah, how can you blaspheme something that does not exist? Islam will always be defensive, and always under attack because not everyone cares much for Islams theories and behavior, even some muslims. Another jihad, 'Do as I say and not as I do' jihad. Which means 'I can abuse you and you are not allowed any defense, not only that, but you must pay me as well'. That's a description of a dhimmi, or maybe a muslim wife(s). 'Do as I say and not as I do' is a perversion of the 'Golden Rule'.
They may fool some people with that kind of rhetoric, but the numbers are shrinking...

10690 deadly terrorist acts since 911. When I mention this to liberal/leftist/socialist/communist,
apologists of Islam, who usually don't know enough about Islam to defend it, I get a 'so what',
thats a small number'...Small??? Just exactly how many deadly terrorist attacks are acceptable to you? At just exactly what magical number of terrorist murders does it take to turn your casual, 'so what' , into 'not acceptable'?
Ask that and get a blank stare, and then an abrupt change of subject. There is no such magic number and you just proved it too them...

duh _ swami - have you read Geert Wilders' Parliamentary Speech that I linked above in the "Sons of Apes and Pigs" site? Here it is again - everyone, you must read!

http://www.sonsofapesandpigs.org/2008/03/geert-wilders-1400-years-ago-w.html

This blog entry proves to me once again that religion, specifically fundamentalist religion, is corrosive to society.

Rather than working toward common and beneficial global goals, freedom of speech and basic human rights are continuously threatened.

I fear for our future.

They create the propaganda and we simply report the about it.

Naseem;

If your hanging around Islamabad or have friends there, tell us what specific things we are reporting on that are not based in fact or are misleading and can be construed as propaganda against Islam.

It would be nice to have a dialogue as to what is a fair and reasonable assessment of what is defined as propaganda or lies that reflect such misunderstandings.

They want the West to leave their demonic cult alone? Why, we would love too, but you see, people who follow the pedophile prophet are killing, rapping, beheading, torturing non-Muslims in the West. It's not us who don't leave them alone; it's THEY who come ot OUR lands and try to force THEIR cult on US. If you would just get back to Saudi Arabia, and leave the rest of the world alone, no one would give rat's tail for this religion.

Thanks Darcy...Geert is right on the money. Those liberal leftists, I referred to should read that, but if they did, they would ignore the evidence and call him a hatemonger. It's amazing to me how many people get elected to high office that are so easily pushed around by Islam. Geert is not one of those, he is unique...

Mackie...Naseem got evicted. RS, Hugh and staff decided her contributions were no longer valuable, and escorted her/him/they off the premises.

duh_swami:

I'm somewhat surprised, she/he has been a commenter on JW for quite some time now.

Mackie

If you would just get back to Saudi Arabia, and leave the rest of the world alone, no one would give rat's tail for this religion.

Posted by: Crusader at March 8, 2008 9:51 AM

So true. I never thought about Islam until September 11, 2001.

Of course I did know about how horribly Middle Eastern females were treated, but I didn't know anything about Islam or cared to know.

Now, I know a lot! And I see that the Islamic faith is the whole problem, including the horrible treatment of females in Islam.

darcy,
Thanks for the Wilders link. The only thing is: are the Dutch people fed up enough to vote for him and his party at the next election or will political correctness carry the day? Is having someone somewhere accuse you of "bigotry" worse than losing your heritage? That is the question the Dutch must answer. As long as they continue to elect "leaders" who cower in the face of Islamic threats, the jihad will continue.

darcy,
This link has been forwarded to intel specialists, http://www.groepwilders.com/Viewdata.aspx?ID=44&CID=4

Mackie,

Not to worry about Naseem. Such bad pennies always reappear, and it'll be fun figuring out
which new persona is the erstwhile Naseem.

Besides, he/she/it/they was starting to break
character. One of them didn't do the little
widow woman quite so well as the other.

Just think of it as "Where's Waldo" JW style. :)

Not to worry about Naseem. Such bad pennies always reappear, and it'll be fun figuring out
which new persona is the erstwhile Naseem.

I was reading the archives the other day and we had posters Mahmoud and Dina. I thought they were very instructional, I like for them to get angry...it really exposes islam for the RoP® it is.

"THE BEST PROPAGATORS OF WESTERN PROPAGANDA TOWARDS ISLAM IS ISLAM ITSELF".

There is of course a great disconnect because of a clash of civilizations that are so clearly driven by to very different ideologies. There is really no propaganda, there is only reporting of the stark realities, and differences between these ideologies. It all comes down to Islam is critical of Western foundational practices, and the West is critical of Islamic practices.

Does Islam somehow think that we are going bend to the way they see things? the way they act? Well of course that is what they would like to see us do. There are of course people(dhimmis') in our Western Societies who our cow-towing to this aggressive ideology, such as people like Ken Livingston, The Archbishop of Canterberry, Former President Jimmy Carter, and a host of other dhimmis who patronize Islam's aggressiveness ideology and either fail or refuse to see what Islam's objectives are.

Thank God there are still many more out there who will defend the values, an foundations of the of their Western Societies from these tyrannical Middle Eastern societies who still live in the dark ages.

Wonder if Islamic rage boy was out...

Darcy, thanks for the link. What more can you say about man other than he appears to have no equal in any government anywhere in the world. When their Prime Minister spoke in Indonesia, where he said there's a place for Shariah in the Netherlands "if the majority want it"....the government is systematically, like all other western governments, importing thousands of pro shariah votes to one day potentially having a pro shariah majority.

Dangerous stuff, it's a 2 pronged effort for certain.

Like Gramfan and PMK, I actually fell for this headline for almost a full half-second.

It's nice to know, in a way, that not all of our hopes for a peaceful resolution have been extinguished.

Yet.

"The protesters called upon all political and religious parties and scholars to chalk out a policy to stop the Western propaganda against Islam"....from headline.

Islam is it's own worst enemy, and they don't want to stop the "propaganda", but they want to stop the Truth about Islam & Muhammad from getting out. Islam is clearly evil, and they want us to believe that it isn't.

Truth hurts doesn't it? Take 2 aspirin....

...never mind, it was a dumb joke the first time I told it.

Remember, they are not asking; it is not a request. They don't say please and will kill you if you do not grant their "request."

"They also termed the blasphemous acts a conspiracy against Islam."

I wish there was a conspiracy against Islam; there ain't one.

darcy, right on! What a great speech by Wilders. Thanks for the link.

You're welcome, everybody.

Wilders has no peer except RS. Both so fabulous it defies description.

Thank God for 'em!

[10690 deadly terrorist acts since 911. ...]

I think it's important to track the total number of people killed in these 10,690 attacks. The number of attacks themselves do not seem to change people's opinions - once it is pointed out that 253 people were killed only last week in jihadi attacks people start reacting differently.

The ROP site would perhaps do well to maintain a consolidated count of people killed in these attacks.

10690 attacks and how many people died?
It weren't Muslims who done em by the way. They were Iraqi's, Afghani's.
Muslim by name but not by nature!!!

Now let's see Iraq War- 600,000
Iraqi sanctions - 1.2 million
Afghanistan- no idea, countless

Try and tell me the Palestinians have killed anyway near as many as the Israeli's.

140 Palestinians died in the Gaza attacks, 40 of them were woman and children. Is their blood worth less than 8 Jews?

Did they kill 140 people by accident?
They could easily wipe out the threat using their American donated weapons and find these rocket launch pads. But no, here's our excuse, let's go into Gaza and wipe out the Palestinians.

I've just about had enough of these Jews winging at how bad they got it. They hate Muslims, plain and simple.
'We have to defend ourselves' against people we have forced into refugee camps and prisons for nothing. Imprisoned them behind a wall and you know what.... it's not even our country!!!!

I'm supposed to believe some BS story about Hamas are using human shields, shall I show you a little something that you don't see on CNN???? hmmmm

Now on top of killing our woman and children, you make cartoons insulting our Prophet. I think these Pakistanis have a right to protest.

Why should we root out these terrorists. You deal with them, since you created their hatred.
Maybe start treating their people better and then if they continue to attack, then we'll come in.

You won't win this war without the help of genuine Muslims.

thes states: "You deal with them, since you created their hatred."

No, that's not how hatred works; no one can make another person feel hatred, it's something that an individual chooses to feel.

thes, if I hate someone, then that's my choice. No one made me feel that way.

Without advocating that we mimic these idiots in every way, I would like to see more people in non-Islamic countries holding rallies denouncing countries like Pakistan. Maybe burn a few flags and wave some motoons around, carry some free speech placards. I know there have been some anti-terrorist rallies, but they've been tame.
Meanwhile, i just read on jpost.com that Moshe Feiglin of Israel's Likud party has been banned from Britain based on his inflamatory statements against leftist Jews, as well as his calling Islam violent and Mo deceitful. But Britain allows Ibrahim Mousawi in, the chief foreign editor of Hizbullah's Al Manar TV.
Here's the article:
http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1204546432524&pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FShowFull

"Protesters ask West to stop anti-Islam propaganda,"

Pat Condell responds to the request to appease Islam

"Protesters ask West to stop anti-Islam propaganda,"

You go first, stop killing Westerners. Stop your hatred of everything un-islamic.

"Say islam is a religion of peace or I'll kill you!"

Get ready for a encore performance by "islamic rage boy".

Get ready for a encore performance by "islamic rage boy".

From above: I've just about had enough of these Jews winging at how bad they got it. They hate Muslims, plain and simple.

HMM and I suppose muslims love Jews. That's why they have been railing against them, and attacking them since Mohammad. Allah does not seem to like Jews much either. His book is full of negative edicts about Jews. So in reality, I don't know if Jews hate muslims or not, since I am not a Jew, but your statement rings of hypocrisy. It is not news that muslims hate Jews. But if Jews hate muslims, I wonder why? Is it because muslims, 'Palestinians' in this case, celebrate bloody murder of Jews, as in the aftermath of the seminary shooting? Is it because
'Palestinian' muslims calling themselves Hamas, Fatah or some other name, rain rockets on their cities, even during the so called truces. And maybe it's because those pesky suicide bombers are blowing up old women and children. And would it be unfair of Israeli's to hate the people who threaten them daily with liquidation, and uncounted other incidents and threats? On top of that your numbers are too large, and unsubstantiated.

So you have just about had enough...ok.. Maalox or another aluminum hydroxide gel may help, get rid of that burning feeling in the pit of your stomach. Or you can ventilate here if you like, until RS gets fed up with it...Other than that calm down, take a deep breath and do some thinking...

"you make cartoons insulting our Prophet." --the saracen.

More Motoons! More Motoons! Insult, mock and ridicule the false profit of Islam!

Hi saracen? Ya like that?! LOL!

Repeat: Insult, mock and ridicule the false profit of Islam!

I'm now getting a much better sense of what the people of Israel have to endure.

I'm now getting a much better sense of what the people of Israel have to endure.

Posted by: The Cool Ghoul at March 8, 2008 11:32 PM

Oh, it's unimaginable what Jewish people have to endure from the hate-filled, rabid, bloodthirsty Mohammedans all around them. Unimaginable.

>>Why should we root out these terrorists. You deal with them, since you created their hatred. --the saracen.

You know, if innocent people weren't getting murdered by the Mohammedans, I could laugh for about 10 years over that 100% delusional, utterly insane, remark.

Here's the party responsible for Mohammedans' hatred of us, saracen - your false profit Mo and his hoax koran.

Newsflash, saracen - you're not the victims, you're the perps.

Oh, btw, saracen - hope you enjoy using the internet, esp. since Infidels invented it! LOL!

Israel is far more civilized than it's neighbors.
When Israeli's kill women or children in Gaza, there is no celebrations in the Israeli streets. There is no joyous dancing and passing out of candy. There is no shooting guns off into the air in celebration followed by hate filled speeches. (A poor practice as those bullets have to come down somewhere). There is nothing in the Israeli constitution that calls for the destruction of it's neighbors, but there are these provisions for the destruction of Israel in
the charters and constitutions of their neighbors.
Islam has had 1400 years to civilize itself, and it has failed. Israel settled the matter of civilization way before Mohammad. The one thing that Allah is not, is civil. So if Allah is uncivilized, it is natural that a religion that grew up around him would also be uncivilized. Shahada means you have to leave civilization behind you. This is what Shahada does, it converts the civil into the uncivil. This then is Abdallah, slave to Allah...
There is no way Jews can top that act, and most likely are not interested in trying...Me either...

thesaracen ;

"You won't win this war without the help of genuine Muslims"

So sara underline genuine . Are there Fake and Genuine Muslims also of yet another two more varieties ? I think there are only fakes now allover . Perhaps except in Saudi Arabia around Kaaba only ,may be a few ones still. But I doubt. The only genuine Muslim perhaps was Prophet himself because he devised the whole theory and game of counterfeiting ,the Koran !

Sudan Vows To Ban Danish
"We urge all Muslims around the world to boycott Danish commodities, goods, companies, institutions, organizations, and personalities," Mr. Bashir told the crowd. "Down, down, Denmark!" shouted the protesters. Mr. Bashir vowed that "not a single Danish foot will from now on desecrate the land of Sudan."

It was not clear whether Mr. Bashir would expel the two dozen Danes who work in Sudan, mostly in aid organizations and as peacekeepers in southern Sudan and Darfur. The Danish Charge d'Affaires in Khartoum, Karin Soerensen, said her mission had not been notified of any order for Danes to leave.
[…]
Khartoum began enforcing a ban on Danish products Tuesday.

Danish exports to Sudan are minimal, consisting mainly of dairy products. In 2006, they amounted to $23 million. But Sudan is one of the largest recipients of Danish aid — $26 million in 2006 and a $100 million humanitarian and reconstruction package is planned through 2009.

Denmark To Oppose Debt Relief
Sudan owes Denmark nearly $405 million and after Sudan's government and southern rebels signed a peace agreement in 2005, international donors said they would consider debt relief.
…
Denmark said yesterday it will oppose any debt relief deal for Sudan in response to the Sudanese president's comments urging the Muslim world to boycott Danish goods …

Interior Minister Ulla Toernaes said she summoned Sudan's ambassador to Denmark to demand an explanation of Sudanese President al-Bashir's comments a day earlier.

"in the international talks about a possible debt relief to Sudan, it will be Denmark's point of view that Sudan should not get such a debt relief agreement," [said] Ms. Toernaes
[…]
However, she said Denmark would not cut development aid to Sudan. "Our support is not a support to the Sudanese president or, for that matter, to the government," Ms. Toernaes said.

Sudan is one of the largest recipients of Danish aid, receiving $26 million in aid in 2006. A $100 million humanitarian and reconstruction package is planned through 2009.

"It surprises me that Sudan's government apparently is willing to cut the cooperation with a donor like Denmark on development aid because of a caricature in Danish newspapers," Ms. Toernaes told the newspaper.
---------

Denmark is one of the largest aid donors relative its size, one of the few if not the only that reach the UN target of 1% of GDP.

thesaracen ; “10690 attacks and how many people died?”

Keeping some kind of twisted score on the number of Najis Kafur murdered are we?

thesaracen ; "It weren't Muslims who done em by the way. They were Iraqi's, Afghani's.”

So very glad you’ve finally dropped that old canard that Mohammedanism is a race. The acceptance that people of many nationalities and races is a health indication that you might be able to begin to examine the ideology behind these attacks. But I’m sorry you have failed to admit that it is the fact they too embraced the Tenants of Mohamet.

thesaracen ; “Muslim by name but not by nature!!!”

By this statement I presume you reject the strategies and tactics used against the Qaynuqa, The Quraysh, Banu Nadir, The Banu Mustaliq, and The Khaybar, just to name a few? And you also reject the master mind behind them? That would be the man called “Mohammed” (Piss Be Upon Him). Wasn’t he suppose to be the “perfect example” to follow? I guess that’s what those people are doing.

thesaracen ; “Now let's see Iraq War- 600,000”

Oh goody, not only are you using a number that have already been called into question for their sourcing (A NGO with an axe to grind and was caught playing fast and loose with the numbers). It also seems you’re blaming the West for some of the Sunni/Shi’ia mayhem. So let me get this straight, a Sunni bombs the market in Basra during a Shi’ia festival and… the Dutch are to blame… oh wait… the Polish… err… I know… wait for it… IT”S AN EVIL MALIGNANT CONSPIRACY BY… “DAS EVIL JOOOS”!!! Err… right?

thesaracen ; “Iraqi sanctions - 1.2 million”

Are you counting the ones Saddam and his cronies helped meet Allah? Or you counting the ones that died because we didn’t sell them stuff… and why is the West responsible to sell them stuff like… I don’t know aspirin, wheat, cars, or anything else? They can have oil embargos and use the oil commoties market to drain the West. Also are you including the corruption that Saddam helped spawn in the vaunted “Oil for Food” graft for votes debacle?

thesaracen ; “Afghanistan- no idea, countless”

Oh and from when are you counting and whom are you counting? The six-year-old boy the Taliban strapped a bomb to conduct homicide bombing? Oh wait, my bad, the compassionate Westerner disarmed it instead of just letting the kid die, risking their own lives for him. Oh, I know… your talking about the young girls that the Taliban slaughtered for awful crime of going to school. (Are you secretly a misogynist too or do you flaunt it?) Oh I know, you want to count the journalist they are going to kill for printing an article off the Internet. Or perhaps all the executions durning the time of the Taliban rule. Or their inter-tribal warfare they fell to after the Soviets pulled out. Which seems to be their normal state of being, when they’re not being xenophobic Mohammedan Maniacs slaughtering any Najis Kafur they can get near. Just exactly, what numbers are you using for your “uncountable”, since I do not believe the West should be held accountable for the actions of the Mohammedan in any region of the world?

thesaracen ; “Try and tell me the Palestinians have killed anyway near as many as the Israeli's.”

Still keeping score of Najis Kafur slaughtered I see.

thesaracen ; “140 Palestinians died in the Gaza attacks, 40 of them were woman and children. Is their blood worth less than 8 Jews?”

Given the fact for months Hamas has fire rockets into another state’s territory, they are lucky the response was mild. Also… the propagandist tactic of dragging children behind them on raids and firing from hospital compounds is getting old and tiring. Ever read the fable of the “Boy who called wolf”? Basically, too many cameras are rolling and too many people are watch for them to continue this charade and expect people not to notice. The absolutely callous way Hamas uses their “fellow Mohammedan” is revolting.

thesaracen ; “Did they kill 140 people by accident?”

Did the “Palestinians” accidentally launch thousands of rockets? Hmmm? Thought not, so why should I condemn Israelis when I see them “pulling their punches”? In fact one could say, it’s a down right humane way to deal with a group of people who’ve sworn to slaughter you and your children.

thesaracen ; “They could easily wipe out the threat using their American donated weapons and find these rocket launch pads. But no, here's our excuse, let's go into Gaza and wipe out the Palestinians.”

Gee, donated American weapons… aren’t those what Hamas “stole” from Fahta? And aren’t those being used now to shoot at “DAS EVIL JOOS”? Next as we saw in southern Lebanon the Palestinians have a nasty habit of hiding their launchers in neighborhoods to maximize casualties. They also place them out in fields and have children go out to recover the launchers hoping “DAS EVIL JOOS” will shoot them so they can have yet another propaganda video. As for wiping out the Palestinians, well let’s face it, Israel has the weapons to REALLY do that, but they don’t have the same goals or mentality of Hamas. In other words call me when the Israeli’s begin carpet bombing, if you’re going to try to claim they are trying to wipe out the “Palestinians”.

thesaracen ; “I've just about had enough of these Jews winging at how bad they got it. They hate Muslims, plain and simple.”

I have too… I’m totally fed up with hearing about another Maniac Mohammedan slaughtering more of their neighbors or threatening them. Solution… since Iran has developed a missile with a 2000-miles range… a DMZ should be formed around Israel of about 200-miles. We can begin negotiations from there.

As for Jews hating Mohammedan… I don’t know about that, but I know I have extreme issues with the Mohammedan’s religious concept of Sharia with its’ tyrannical Dhimmitude for me. I can only imagine how poorly I’d react to them telling me their religious text commands them to exterminate me and all my kin.

thesaracen ; “ 'We have to defend ourselves' against people we have forced into refugee camps and prisons for nothing. Imprisoned them behind a wall and you know what.... it's not even our country!!!! “

I’m presuming you’re putting words in the mouth of the Israeli’s on this one. So let’s examine them… First the so called “Palestinians” left on their own accord at the behest of their Arab Mohammedan neighbors so they could bomb with impunity. I’m guessing they didn’t want to kill an innocent and we all know all Mohammedan are innocent...lol. They were also promised the booty from all that the Jews in return for leaving. Next these so called “refugee camps” seem to have a lot of concrete and brick buildings. It must be the first “refugee camp” to have cigarette ads and television stations. (All though I bet it would be a nicer “camp” if Hamas had spent some of the Jizya money sent to them on repairing some of the infrastructure, like the sewage treatment plant or something silly like that.)

On the walls… I found it extremely interesting that the Egyptians had their own walls with the ”Palestinians” too. And it was extremely fascinating that they began to threaten to break anyone’s legs that came through it too. Perhaps the Egyptians feared losing out on some tourist travel over some simple “misunderstanding” of a Koranic verse or something.

Not their country? What are you talking about? The Greeks, the Persians, and the Romans all have histories that show Judea to be right there. Only after the invasion of the Mohammedan was Judea ever in the Mohammedan Empire. And if once being part of the Mohammedan Empire means the Mohammedan get to ruthlessly attack a country then Spain, Malta, Sicily, Serbia, Russian, China and a host of other countries should side with Israel in the strongest of terms.

thesaracen ; “I'm supposed to believe some BS story about Hamas are using human shields, shall I show you a little something that you don't see on CNN???? Hmmmm”

Actually… I’ve seen the footage from Southern Lebanon and now from Gaza. I’ve seen the images of them actually, physically dragging a random kid off the streets to cover their backs. But if your REALLY have something to share… please feel free to enlighten us all and share the links. We’ll analyze them and determine for ourselves the veracity of their content.

thesaracen ; “Now on top of killing our woman and children, you make cartoons insulting our Prophet.”

Rather sad that you imply that insulting your Failed Merchant turned Pedophile False Prophet and Bandit Warlord is worse then the deaths of the human shield Hamas is using.

thesaracen ; “I think these Pakistanis have a right to protest.”

Here you and I agree, they can protest and burn flags all they want and I can protest and draw cartoons all I want.
Simply put; FREEDOM OF SPEECH, FREEDOM OF RELIGION, and FREEDOM OF THOUGHT.

“Why should we root out these terrorists. You deal with them, since you created their hatred.”

First their “hatred” seems to stem from the ideology they embrace and I’m not responsible. As I’ve said before, “YOU ARE RESPONSIBLE FOR YOUR OWN ACTIONS AND REACTIONS”.

Second why should you root them out? Simple, your own enlightened self interest. The fact is, if you don’t, We will. You might not like the strategies and tactics we choose to use in OUR REACTIONS. As of right now you have the choices, but the window for your opportunity to decide how things will be done is closing with each of the over 10000 terrorist actions done. Right now you could steer the direction of future events in a positive way for yourselves, but soon it is closing. Instead I detect the same “You’re making me kill you” effect of blaming the victim.

thesaracen ; “Maybe start treating their people better and then if they continue to attack, then we'll come in.”

I presume you’re speaking about the “Palestinians” again. Hmmm… how many bombs do we have to ignore before you move to stop your fellow Mohammedan, or is this a red herring, you tell us to sit on our hands long enough and you sit back and hope for the final destruction of Israel?

thesaracen ; “You won't win this war without the help of genuine Muslims.”

Are the genuine Mohammedan those mythical “moderates”? Or the Maniac Murderous Mohammedan?
All this Taqqiya and the Kittmans are making my head swim… I guess I no longer believe or care about what ever excuses the Mohammedan have left to try to lull me to sleep.

"Tenants of Mohamet." --Tenets. That's a common error.

Love how the saracen drops in with his BS to rile us up and then disappears.

saracen, concerning *everything* you said, you haven't got a sane leg to stand on. Say, still enjoying your computer invented by the Infidels?/giggle!

The Jews without doubt are the most hostile to Muslims. They hate Muslims, whether Muslims are the perpetrators or not, they will look to wipe them out.

First things first, who said I supported Hamas, or the Taliban or Saddam or your freinds Fatah?

Just your like your governments these people are criminals causing the deaths of innocent people. So go on what you gonna say now? 'He's using taqqiya?'

I'll be honest I really couldn't care less how your media portrays Muslims, or how you cower behind apostates and cartoons. It has no affect on me whatsoever, since your all ignorant. YOU DON'T KNOW JACK SHIT LET ALONE THE TRUTH. Until you can reveal something about Islam that I cannot answer with sources or from background knowledge, what have you got other than baseless statements?

Senor Doeboy- you need to stop this hero act. You have a simple choice, which I hope Obama will act on. Treat the Palestinian people in the same way you treat the Jews. Once your capable of this, which at the moment your not, then Muslims around the world will come forward and HELP you defeat a common enemy.
Hell, even the terrorists will lay down their weapons. The problem is your incapable of doing it. You'll never be able to do it. This is the test.

If you truly want to be rid of these terrorists then just leave their countries, treat their innocent civilians fairly and maybe you'll see results. Your foreign policy is an absolute disgrace. It causes all these problems because one side is treated differently to the other regardless of whether they are hostile or not.

So Senor Deboy you've tried to fight these terrorists and no matter what you do and how many you kill, more and more come to take their places. You cannot win against people who want to die. And so far you are struggling.

This is where you need Muslims to come forward and help in the war. But the thing is your not helping us so why should we help you?
Personally I would help because my rights are being protected, however the Palestinians in particular, the Iraqi's and the Afghani's have to suffer for the actions of a few among them. Collective punishment. Why should they hate Hamas or the Taliban?

If the Palestinians acted the way these Israeli's are acting now, there would be no Israel in the first place. There would be no Jews or the West Bank or Gaza. The Jews need to be grateful to the Palestinians, who gave them shelter from oppression, from not just Hitler but the whole of Europe. They will never do such a thing.

Everything has a cause and an effect. If I punch someone, I'm the cause for them punching me back. I can't turn round and say I had nothing to do with you punching me back because I don't control your hands. I caused it.

The point of my first post is that YOUR ALL HYPOCRITES. The number of 'terrorist attacks', which YOU have been keeping a count on, is not even near how many people have died at the hands of Bush, and the West's foreign policy against the Muslims. Innocent people dying is murder, I don't care if terrorists are hiding there. And the number of casualties of these wars is shocking.

If not murder then you have breached your rules of war, which is a crime in your book. Either way Bush and his cronies plus the Jews continue to breach rules of war.

And so do these so called jihadists who are brainwashed into suicide and targeting anything that seems out of line. There are no moderate Muslims, there are genuine Muslims though. And you have no idea how much of an asset it would be for you to have the Muslims on your side against these people who do not represent us and in fact have left Islam if they were Muslim in the first place.

Please tell me, who is it thats stopping you from practicing your religion, or your way of life? Who???????? Muslims? Go to Lebanon, go to Syria, go to Iran, then come back and tell me if Christians are not allowed to be a Christian.

Freedom of speech has limits and you have gone way beyond those limits with these cartoons. I can take it though because your level of knowledge is really weak. That figure in the cartoon can be anyone, you don't know what Prophet Muhammed pbuh looked like, I don't either.

At the end of the day I'm laughing because I see hundreds of people, including the main man who claim to have knowledge but really don't. You cannot differentiate between people who are evil and Islam, when in truth evil and Islam are oceans apart. Scholars, such as Al-Qaradwi are wrong in the extreme to say suicide is ok. So the scholars can be wrong, and you know why they are wrong because the Quran and the hadiths are the criteria. There is a diference between actions of human beings and those books.
What is evil is also something that is designed by culture, it goes with the territory. Homosexuality is an example. To true Christians thats evil, same to Muslims. But to western Law, no, it's ok. You cannot compare a secular law with Sharia as Sharia is just far superior. A law create by God compared
to a law created by a man. I know which one I'll trust.

So it don't really affect me that you hate Muslims There will be a day when you will all become Muslim, because you will know the truth on that day. There will be no other choice. Thats what you fear, if you were honest. Could it be true?

saracen,
Me thinks thou doth protest too much.

Just carry on being a Muslim and leave everyone else alone. You'll be a happier person.
And stop projecting your own feelings onto others. When have Jews ever expressed a desire to wipe out Muslims?

I find Muslims who post here an odious lot. On one hand, they deny any connection between Islam and the violence perpetrated by their coreligionists. On the other, they excuse it. Always present is a sense of grievance. Never present is any hint of forgiveness; it's always about vengeance and payback. Once one realizes this about Islam, it becomes obvious that the Israel-"Palestine" situation will never be resolved peacefully.

The Muslims who post here clearly have a weak faith. "Defending" Islam anonymously on a web site makes them feel like they're doing their duty, but in fact it's cowardice. The jihadists truly believe in the piety of their actions, to the extent that they're willing to die for it. None of the Muslim posters here have ever demonstrated any willingness to disabuse their coreligionists of their wrong beliefs. How strong can their faith really be?

thesaracen “I'll be honest I really couldn't care less how your media portrays Muslims”

And yet you protest to much about it too, demanding respect for your ideology.

thesaracen “Until you can reveal something about Islam that I cannot answer with sources or from background knowledge?”

Gee, as a Mohammedan, I suspect you already know about the crimes of the Maniac Mohamet.

thesaracen “Senor Doeboy- you need to stop this hero act.”

Again I’ve never claim the title of hero, but I am defending the right to live our lives in our way. If this makes me a “hero” or performing “heroically” in your eyes, might I ask you… who the “villains” are? That’s a rhetorical question since I’m defending myself from having Sharia Law imposed on me.

thesaracen “You have a simple choice,”

And that choice would be…. Convert, pay Jizya or Die… right?

thesaracen “Treat the Palestinian people in the same way you treat the Jews.”

As soon as the Palestinians behave as well as the Jews and as soon as Mohammedan are capable of treating others as their equals.

thesaracen “Once your capable of this, which at the moment your not, then Muslims around the world will come forward and HELP you defeat a common enemy. “

Well actually when the Mohammedan behave as well as the Jews, there won’t be a need to defeat a “common enemy”. In fact all these cleaver minds might be put to use curing diseases, discovering new scientific principles, inventing new machines to make humanities’ lives easier. What a nice concept that instead of killing they heal, instead of destroying, they will create.

thesaracen “Hell, even the terrorists will lay down their weapons.”

Err… right… http://www.jihadwatch.org/archives/020223.php#comments

thesaracen “If you truly want to be rid of these terrorists then just leave their countries,”

News flash… Our troops in Saudi Arabia were there to protect them from Saddam.
Second we weren’t in Afghanistan or Iraq and the Terrorist did 9/11… seems there is a hole in your theory.

thesaracen “Your foreign policy is an absolute disgrace. It causes all these problems because one side is treated differently to the other regardless of whether they are hostile or not.”

Now that’s a confusing statement… I’m suppose to treat say for example a hostile Iran the same as Mexico, or the Chinese the same as the French? That is illogical in the extreme. How about I treat them the way they act.

thesaracen “So Senor Deboy you've tried to fight these terrorists and no matter what you do and how many you kill, more and more come to take their places. You cannot win against people who want to die. And so far you are struggling.”

Hmmm history lessons here… ever hear of the “Kamikazes”? Oh, and the Japanese were honorable to only target military targets. (And don't try to tell me hiding rocket launchers in civilian hospitals makes the rocket launchers a civilian target.)

thesaracen “This is where you need Muslims to come forward and help in the war. But the thing is your not helping us so why should we help you?”

What am I suppose to help you with? Imposing Sharia Law on myself? Slaughtering the Jews? But here’s the fact Jack you might find helping us is in your enlightened self interest so you can continue to live in a liberal democracy with FREEDOM of SPEECH, FREEDOM of RELIGION, and FREEDOM of THOUGHT.

thesaracen “Personally I would help because my rights are being protected,”

Good idea… and I am glad you admit that you get to enjoy all the FREEDOMS of your country that your fellow citizens have fought and died to have for your country.

thesaracen “Everything has a cause and an effect.”

Yup… Newton’s third law “For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction”

thesaracen “If I punch someone,”

9/11

thesaracen “I'm the cause for them punching me back.”

Invasion of Afghanistan.

thesaracen “I can't turn round and say I had nothing to do with you punching me back because I don't control your hands. I caused it.”

Your damn right…. But you still seem to be whining and moaning about their fates for supporting terrorist.

thesaracen "The point of my first post is that YOUR ALL HYPOCRITES."

Actually, I think I just showed you’re the HYPOCITE.

thesaracen “If not murder then you have breached your rules of war, which is a crime in your book. Either way Bush and his cronies plus the Jews continue to breach rules of war.”

Are we suppose to follow some formal rules of boxing when the opponent is street fighting? How odd, I think not, in fact we should follow Sun-Tzu and Machelliavelli on that regard, especially if we aim to win this life or death battle between civilization and barbarians.

thesaracen “And so do these so called jihadists who are brainwashed into suicide and targeting anything that seems out of line. There are no moderate Muslims, there are genuine Muslims though. And you have no idea how much of an asset it would be for you to have the Muslims on your side against these people who do not represent us and in fact have left Islam if they were Muslim in the first place.”

The Mythical Moderates keep say that to our faces, but… when they think the cameras are gone their talk suddenly makes the Jihadist sound like a bunch of school girls about to go out for a picnic in comparison.

thesaracen “Please tell me, who is it thats stopping you from practicing your religion, or your way of life? Who???????? Muslims? “

No one is stopping me yet, but the Mohammedan certain seek to impose Sharia through either Legal Jihad like CAIR does or through P.C. Cult of Multiculturalism.

thesaracen “Go to Lebanon, go to Syria, go to Iran, then come back and tell me if Christians are not allowed to be a Christian.”

Oh they can under Dhimmitude, their daughters kidnapped and rape their sons murders and their churches burned. Also nice point of debate… They are “allowed” it’s not their right? Sharia it slays you… LOL. And that was yet another nice attempt at Taqqiya, in fact most of your stuff is Taqqiya.

thesaracen “Freedom of speech has limits and you have gone way beyond those limits with these cartoons.”

Oh nice… now the Grand Mohammedan will tell us what FREEDOM of SPEECH we are “allowed”. You going to tell us what FREEDOM of RELIGION we have too? Because that is in YOUR SHARIA LAWS.

thesaracen “What is evil is also something that is designed by culture, it goes with the territory.”

You’re right our culture will determine what is evil, even if it’s the ideology of Mohamet you embrace so vigoriously.

thesaracen “Homosexuality is an example. To true Christians thats evil, same to Muslims. But to western Law, no, it's ok.”

Seems you are ignorant of Christianity… ever hear the phrase “Love the sinner, not the sin.”? It’s not slaughter in my name like the Mohammedan preach. And those pesky Western Laws seem to get in your way of violating other peoples rights to Life, Liberty, and their property, all of which you seem extremely keen on doing away with for Mohammedan supremacy.

thesaracen “You cannot compare a secular law with Sharia as Sharia is just far superior. A law create by God compared
to a law created by a man. I know which one I'll trust.”

Yup, there ya go, the true Mohammedan supremacy peeking it’s fascist little head out.

thesaracen “So it don't really affect me that you hate Muslims”

Again I hold the tenets of Mohamet is DISDAIN, CONTEMPT, and REVULSION. I can “Love the sinner and not the sin”

thesaracen “There will be a day when you will all become Muslim, because you will know the truth on that day. There will be no other choice.”

Oh goody some more Mohammedan superiority complex and what ever happen to you vaunted no compulsion clause? Oh wait.. it was CONVERT, PAY JIZYA, or DIE! Right, not really a no compulsion clause is it.

thesaracen “Thats what you fear, if you were honest. Could it be true?”

Damn you hit the nail on the head… I am fighting for the birthrights given to me of FREEDOM of SPEECH, FREEDOM of RELIGION, and FREEDOM of THOUGHT. Perhaps this is why you get so much in a dander an accuse me of being some kind of hero when I call you out for acting like a fifth columnist Kitman trying to disassemble our civilization from with in.

ou know what senor Doeboy, I was going to answer your first post but now you've landed another 'bombshell' so let's answer this one.
First of we're called Muslims did you hear that senor. Muslims... say it with me.... Muslims.

When I say I don't care about how you portray Islam, I truly don't because I can forgive and forget, however I do care about dawah and inviting people to Islam. So instead of talking with the honest human beings about Islam, I'd rather go after you and gain as much knowledge as possible, about what you don't like about Islam. So you're helping me, keep them coming.

Everyday I'm learning about the little tactics you have in dismissing Islam and honest people like me. Your only cheating yourselves when you can talk about something with such conviction without first knowing if it's true or not.

So let's dissect your latest outburst senor doeboy. You are trying to act like a hero but I don't see you as one. If debating the people on jihadwatch was a game of chess, to me you'd be one of the pawns, you're valueless to be honest, but hey you want to debate, let's talk.

Convert, jizya or die- there's the exact problem, where do you get this formula? Please show me where I can find this in the Quran and the hadiths.

I think what I have said re the treatment of Palestinians has confused you. No Muslim wants your love and affection, trust me we really don't. The West is not the ultimate decision maker in this world. Neither are countries looking to behave so that you may change your foreign policy.
Do whatever you want.

The point I was trying to make is, that the unfair treatment of the Palestinians is a huge contributing factor to the troubles in that region. This you cannot deny. So don't try and wash your hands off, because guilt is not just reserved for Hamas or the Palestinians. The Israeli's and the West are just as responsible for breeding the current situation. It's a myth to say the Israeli government is peaceful. Their own people protest against them, because they are provoking and aggravating the Palestinians.

ow that’s a confusing statement… I’m suppose to treat say for example a hostile Iran the same as Mexico, or the Chinese the same as the French?

Treat Hamas the way your treating them now. I'm not complaining. But what you do is to allow the utter destruction of the Palestinians, their infrastructure, their lives, everything. Why is this? Is it because they happen to be Muslim?
I'll leave you alone if your honest. Simple question.

Brown happens to have a bit more sense than Bush. There are countries such as Uzbekistan, whose government slaughters innocent people. Since they are evil as Saddam was, why does Bush have a good friendship with the President there, Karimov or whatever his name is?
Is your foreign policy to support nations who slaughter Muslims or is it to support nations who are fair and honest and who are under attack by terrorists? Because Karimov is a tyrant, nothing else.

Senor the Kamikazes and these terrorists are totally different they had a common goal but they live in two different ages. What's Japan got to do with anything?
If this re Hamas again then that's BS. I won't believe a propaganda story coming out from the IDF nor from Hamas.

Like I said keep your law nobody wants to replace it. Muslims have bigger worries than bringing in Sharia law in a non-Muslim country funnily enough.

We could have slaughtered the Jews, a bit like the way you did and we could have taken a page out of your books by denying them rights for centuries but no, didn't happen.

Here we go Freedom, Freedom, Freedom. Are you really free though? The Patriot Act gives you a lot of freedom. Freedom of Religion, fine Muslims aren't against that either. Freedom of thought??????? You might want to re-think that one.

thesaracen “If I punch someone,”

9/11

thesaracen “I'm the cause for them punching me back.”

Invasion of Afghanistan.

Well the FBI claims they don't know if Bin Laden did it or not. Up to you what you believe since you obviously know more than they do. Why would they say that anyway? Doesn't make sense that they would lie to avoid fighting the enemy does it?

Try and explain Iraq then? What was the cause for that exactly? Did Saddam attack you? Did he support terrorism? Did he something to do with 9/11? Did he have any weapons?

I'm not a hypocrite. Wipe out the terrorists you'll be doing everyone a favour. But what your doing in Iraq, God knows. They didn't have terrorists before you came in did they?

It's not even a question of street fighting. What you shouldn't do is kill a whole family in revenge for the death of a comrade. Thats a breach of the rules. Or water-boarding when your questioning them, thats a breach too.

I have no reason to come here and give a cock and bull story about how I hate terrorists and then secretly support them. You won't find that in me if you're looking for it. You will find someone who does not like your imperialist invasions or the actions of terrorists.

Sharia does not stop you from being a Christian or a Jew my friend. It in fact protects you from harm in a Muslim land.

There you go again about dhimmi's. Are you a Dhimmi? Have you ever met a dhimmi?
If the answer to both is no, how are you in a position to talk? You can only speculate about rape of dhimmi's and so on, but there's proof that your soldiers raped an Iraqi girl and then killed her. I don't speculate my friend.

I will tell you, I will dictate to you what you are allowed to say and what you are not. Who the hell do you think you are? Like you have a right above everyone else who lives in the land just because your native. BOLLOCKS!!! Don't even try and deny that was what you were implying.
Since you can't tell the difference between whats offensive and what's not, I will teach you like the good little boy that you are. What an arrogant prick.

I'm not superior to you. I must have pride to think like that, which is a sin. However Sharia compared to a secular law. Do you need me to say anything?

When I say 'on that day' I mean judgment day. On that day you will know Islam was the truth.

Listen for the last time, I live amongst you, without hatred for you. I live in the West and we should not be insulted behind the veil of free speech. Your worries are exaggerated when it comes to Islam. All you have to do is not get involved with foreign issues that don't concern you and you will never face any problems. If you were to do this that would be one problem out of the way, where you would encounter the next problem. The Russians behind your backs are arming themselves for a new cold war. I hope your next president is not as stupid as your current one, because you now find yourselves in one hell of a mess.

thesaracen, “First of we're called Muslims did you hear that senor. Muslims... say it with me.... Muslims.”

For the fourth time, you can’t be seriously this dense. No that is the word you want to call yourselves. It’s an Arabic word for “Those who have submitted to peace through submission to Allah”. And again, I do NOT subscribe to the concept behind this foreign word. I prefer the much more precise word in my own language that is MOHAMMEDAN it simple means, “Those that follow the tenets of Mohamet” a simple and direct definition of the facts. People who ascribe to the Tenets of Mohamet are followers of there of, and are there for MOHAMMEDAN. It’s that simple, and no I don’t believe that anything about the definition of the Arabic word is correct in principle. There for yet for the fourth time I choose to use my language and not allow you to begin framing the debate by trying to determine the language or the definitions we can use. If you follow the tenets of Mohamet, you are a Mohammedan.

thesaracen, “When I say I don't care about how you portray Islam, I truly don't because I can forgive and forget, however I do care about dawah and inviting people to Islam.”

Dawah… how interesting this is preaching and spreading the word of your faith. Tell me, why do all countries that live under the boot heel of Sharia Law not allow other faith to preach to potential converts? Are the tenets of Mohamet so fragile they can’t stand in the market place of free thought and criticism? Why do they threaten violence if they don’t receive more respect in the west then any other religion?

thesaracen, “So let's dissect your latest outburst senor doeboy. You are trying to act like a hero but I don't see you as one.”

Gee I’ve said over, and over again, I don’t see myself as a hero. It’s you who is getting all agitated calling me some kind of “hero” when I declare my birthright of FREEDOM of SPEECH, FREEDOM of RELIGION, and FREEDOM of THOUGHT are a non-negotiable set of rights.

thesaracen, “If debating the people on jihadwatch was a game of chess, to me you'd be one of the pawns, you're valueless to be honest, but hey you want to debate, let's talk.”

Well a presume that in your game you seek to go after the “king”, should I guess that it is RS himself you wish to debate? (hmmm this bring some serious questions about who you are really.) Second you seem to forget that when the lowly pawn finally arrives across the board it become an extremely powerful piece in the game. But go ahead dismiss anyone else that comes here that you want to.

thesaracen, “Convert, jizya or die- there's the exact problem, where do you get this formula? Please show me where I can find this in the Quran and the hadiths.”

Koran Chapter 9 Verse 29 (One of many militant verses in the Sword Chapter)

YUSUFALI: Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued.
PICKTHAL: Fight against such of those who have been given the Scripture as believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, and forbid not that which Allah hath forbidden by His messenger, and follow not the Religion of Truth, until they pay the tribute readily, being brought low.
SHAKIR: Fight those who do not believe in Allah, nor in the latter day, nor do they prohibit what Allah and His Messenger have prohibited, nor follow the religion of truth, out of those who have been given the Book, until they pay the tax in acknowledgment of superiority and they are in a state of subjection.

And don’t bother with all those Mohammedan Canards that it’s miss translated (that’s three different translators, and two are Arabs) or that it’s “out of context” (they are the complete verse in it’s self) or that only a Mohammedan can understand them.

thesaracen, “I think what I have said re the treatment of Palestinians has confused you.”

Nothing, your militant stance of supporting Hamas in its’ quest of extermination of “DAS EVIL JOOS” is very clear.

thesaracen, “No Muslim wants your love and affection, trust me we really don't.”

I know that, we are just Najis Kafur that have the audacity to believe we have rights not bequeathed by the Mohammedan slaver masters to their Dhimmis.

thesaracen, “The West is not the ultimate decision maker in this world.”

Your right, but the West gets to decide its’ own Laws and policies. Kind of sort of how China has decided how to handle the nascent Mohammedan movement for the Ummah in their country. Or how the Russians do in Chechnya. The faithful of Mohamet’s tenets seem to irk a lot of people, people that don’t play the games of the silly P.C. Cult of Multiculturalism like the fools in the West do.

thesaracen, “Neither are countries looking to behave so that you may change your foreign policy. Do whatever you want.”

Okay we will, We’ll determine our own policies based on our own interest.

thesaracen, “The point I was trying to make is, that the unfair treatment of the Palestinians is a huge contributing factor to the troubles in that region. This you cannot deny. So don't try and wash your hands off, because guilt is not just reserved for Hamas or the Palestinians.”

You’re right we should never have given a dime to the so-called “Palestinians”. This would have forced them to actually work for a living instead of forming a bunch of paramilitary terrorist clubs with their free time.

thesaracen, “The Israeli's and the West are just as responsible for breeding the current situation. It's a myth to say the Israeli government is peaceful.”

I know “DAS EVIL JOOS” don’t pay the jizya and are violently opposing the idea of being killed, they are so unpeaceful outside of the early graves the so-called “Palestinians” have planned with so much love and care for them.

thesaracen, “Their own people protest against them, because they are provoking and aggravating the Palestinians.”

Nice thing about Liberal Democracies is the citizens get to express their views on how to handle things. As for provoking the so-called “Palestinians” that would be any of “DAS EVIL JOOS” breathing while not paying the jizya for the right to do so.

thesaracen, “Treat Hamas the way your treating them now. I'm not complaining.”

Yes you are, oh wait was that some more Taqqiya?

thesaracen, “But what you do is to allow the utter destruction of the Palestinians, their infrastructure, their lives, everything. Why is this? Is it because they happen to be Muslim? I'll leave you alone if your honest. Simple question.”

Yup, I was right you are whining and complaining. First these so-called “Palestinians” let their own sewage system break down and drowned their own children in their own feces, and this after we sent them massive amounts of aid to help with things like that. Second even when given a gift horse of a turnkey operation in the form of an automated green house they stripped it like locusts. They throw each other off buildings use their children as human shields and now you want to blame Israel for going after the terrorist launching rockets on a daily bases.

thesaracen, “Brown happens to have a bit more sense than Bush.”

I think, they are both insane.

thesaracen, “There are countries such as Uzbekistan, whose government slaughters innocent people.”

First I refuse to allow us to become world cop, second I presume that when you use the word “innocent” you are speaking of Mohammedan.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=maHSOB2RFm4

thesaracen, “Since they are evil as Saddam was, why does Bush have a good friendship with the President there, Karimov or whatever his name is?”

National self interest requires we work with the government of Uzbekistan. And as for their violent suppression of the Mohammedan theocracy (back by Iran) that tried to over throw the government… well again National Self interest doesn’t mean we help another Mohammedan cesspool form in the belly of Russia.

thesaracen, “Is your foreign policy to support nations who slaughter Muslims or is it to support nations who are fair and honest and who are under attack by terrorists? Because Karimov is a tyrant, nothing else.”

No, It should be for our own enlightened self interest, and preventing the Mohammedan from slaughtering us and enslaving us falls in that category.

thesaracen, “Senor the Kamikazes and these terrorists are totally different they had a common goal but they live in two different ages. What's Japan got to do with anything?”

You asked how we’d deal with a group of people willing to die to kill us. I was pointing out the fact that in fact we already did once. And notice they are both from a Fascist ideology, strange isn’t it.

thesaracen, “If this re Hamas again then that's BS. I won't believe a propaganda story coming out from the IDF nor from Hamas. Like I said keep your law nobody wants to replace it. Muslims have bigger worries than bringing in Sharia law in a non-Muslim country funnily enough.”

Funny enough, I don’t believe your Taqqiya about not wanting to replace our laws either.

thesaracen, “We could have slaughtered the Jews, a bit like the way you did and we could have taken a page out of your books by denying them rights for centuries but no, didn't happen.”

Actually the Mohammedan did bring “DAS EVIL JOOS” some slaughter, which is why they fled to Europe in the first place. And that’s a really nice "right", to live as Dhimmi slaves, lets ask the Coptic or Assyians how they like that too while we’re at it.

thesaracen, “Here we go Freedom, Freedom, Freedom. Are you really free though?”

Are you trying to pull that all canard that freedom is slavery? The Soviets tried that one already.

thesaracen, “The Patriot Act gives you a lot of freedom.”

Patriot Act only seems to stifle the plans of terrorist to coordinate attacks, doesn’t effect me in the way you seem to hope.

thesaracen, “Freedom of Religion, fine Muslims aren't against that either. “

Bad news, FREEDOM of RELIGION comes with FREEDOM of SPEECH and Freedom of Thought, and that means I get to criticize the aspects of ANY religion.

thesaracen, “Freedom of thought??????? You might want to re-think that one.”

Sorry, I don’t, heck I don’t even care if you want to day dream all day long about Sharia Law, as long as I get FREEDOM of SPEECH and FREEDOM of RELIGION to block those dreams. (Which is why they are RIOTING LIKE CHIMPS in the first place.)

thesaracen, “Well the FBI claims they don't know if Bin Laden did it or not. Up to you what you believe since you obviously know more than they do. Why would they say that anyway? Doesn't make sense that they would lie to avoid fighting the enemy does it?”

Not sure what report you’re referring to from the FBI. But I’ll take Bin Laden at his own word that he did it and was extremely please he got more Najis Kafur then he thought he would. You know your argument here is like those Mohammedan that run around saying it was “DAS EVIL ZIONIST CHRISTIAN/JEWS” that did 9/11, but then turn around and celebrate the “Magnificent 19” and herald what they did as a great victory for the Ummah.

thesaracen, “Try and explain Iraq then? What was the cause for that exactly? Did Saddam attack you? Did he support terrorism? Did he something to do with 9/11? Did he have any weapons?”

You want me to argue the legality of it? (Broken peace treatise mean war) You want me to argue the rational behind it? (secretive programs to keep as much of their WMD abilities alive for restitution) Saddam violated the peace terms with the coalition that’s enough under the UN sanctioned treaty. You seem to have forgot the checks he sent to the Homicide Bombers in the West Bank and Gaza, you know the money from the Oil for Food graft program. As for 9/11, I’m unaware of any connection between Saddam’s Secular Pan Arabian Baathist Party and Osama Bin Laden’s Maniacal Mohammedan Murders. He did have chemical weapons in some old shells, but not enough to alarm me.

Now ask me about the strategy and tactics for invading Iraq…
Sorry I can’t answer that one, I believe it was a total waste of money and worse a horrific lose of lives. There you and I would most likely might agree.

thesaracen, “Sharia does not stop you from being a Christian or a Jew my friend.”

Your right, it only forces me into a second class position in my own home. It forces me to pay protection money to keep my own life. After all if the Christians and Jews did all convert. The Mohammedan would lose their protection racket and have to get jobs.

thesaracen, “ It in fact protects you from harm in a Muslim land.”

Only harm it “protects” me from is at the hands of Mohammedan… doesn’t seem to do that well or seem like a good deal to me.

thesaracen, “There you go again about dhimmi's. Are you a Dhimmi? Have you ever met a dhimmi?”

Nope NOT a Dhimmi, NEVER will be a Dhimmi (which is why Mohammedan have such an issue with me.) Would you like to met an ex-Dhimmi? Here ya go…

http://www.sonsofapesandpigs.org/

thesaracen, “If the answer to both is no, how are you in a position to talk?”

Because I have a brain and can reason for myself.

thesaracen, “You can only speculate about rape of dhimmi's and so on,”

Taqqiya, I can read the reports from Egypt and Turkey, go read Dhimmi Watch by Hugh.

thesaracen, “ but there's proof that your soldiers raped an Iraqi girl and then killed her. I don't speculate my friend.”

Yup and a trial in progress too, if convicted they will be given sentences, were as in Egypt and Turkey the victims are threatened by the Mohammedan police.

thesaracen, “I will tell you, I will dictate to you what you are allowed to say and what you are not.”

Oh goody, the little Islamofascist rears it’s ugly head again. I’m not impressed.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HxYBceSNUrM

thesaracen, “ Who the hell do you think you are?”

A FREE MAN.

thesaracen, “ Like you have a right above everyone else who lives in the land just because your native. BOLLOCKS!!! Don't even try and deny that was what you were implying.”

Nope the same rights as every one else in my country. Bad new for you is that the “right not to be offended” doesn’t exist.

thesaracen, “ Since you can't tell the difference between whats offensive and what's not, I will teach you like the good little boy that you are.”

Let me guess this is your “Silence, I kill you” moment?

thesaracen, “What an arrogant prick.”

Yes, yes you are an arrogant prick. You seem to be having a little trouble adjusting to dealing with uppity Najis Kafur that won’t grovel before the oh so Grand Malignancy of the Mohammedan like a good little Dhimmi.

thesaracen, “I'm not superior to you. I must have pride to think like that, which is a sin. However Sharia compared to a secular law. Do you need me to say anything?”

You’re right you’re not my superior, but you are an arrogant, pride filled Mohammedan. And you need not say anything… Sharia compared to secular laws is like comparing sewer slime (Sharia) to a painting by De Vinci (secular). Enough said on that, you’re right.

thesaracen, “I live in the West and we should not be insulted behind the veil of free speech.”

It’s not behind a veil, something behind a veil would be a burqa babe. No, I not sorry to have to inform you, but FREEDOM of SPEECH, FREEDOM of RELIGION, and FREEDOM of THOUGHT is in your face. Just like the Piss Christ exhibit is too.

thesaracen, “Your worries are exaggerated when it comes to Islam.”

Taqqiya

thesaracen, “All you have to do is not get involved with foreign issues that don't concern you and you will never face any problems.”

Is this your call to “Silence I kill you” if we interfere with the Jihad to force Sharia Law on Denmark or Holland or Britain? And telling us to quietly wait for our turn?

thesaracen, “The Russians behind your backs are arming themselves for a new cold war.”

Oh this is the quick, there’s some one behind you tactic. And yes I’m very aware what the Russians, Chinese, and IRANIANS are up to.

thesaracen, “ I hope your next president is not as stupid as your current one, because you now find yourselves in one hell of a mess.”

So the heck do I, but most likely we’ll get another appeaser from the P.C. Cult of Multiculturalism which has increased the mess instead of actually dealing with it forcefully.

Senor Doeboy,

You are my HERO for taking the time and effort to refute this Mohammedean point-by-point. You have incredible patience. It probably won't do any good in terms of changing his mind, but it makes entertaining reading!

I find it incredible that he doesn't know his own "holy" book, and had to be told where "convert, submit or die" came from!

And he has the nerve to say he'll "dictate" to you and "teach" you but he's not superior.

Keep up the good fight!

We need Mo' MoToons!

Senor Doeboy you just don't no want to give up. Have you noticed how the rest of comrades don't talk to me. Your just a little hard-headed but sooner or later you'll realise that there is not one argument that you have on me.

I'm called a Muslim not a Mohammedan. You pick and choose what language to apply certain words to. But Arabic is our language. If you don't like it then don't use any Arabic terms from here on in. Just don't contradict yourself. You love this Taqqiya, do you know what it means?
And the word for you is Kafir not Kafur, which is actually spelt Kufar. Kafir singular, Kufar plural.
Or you can use Infidel since you get a kick out of that word.

You can't even spell Mohammed properly. Are you Turkish? whose Mohamet?
Man you need to take a dose of Robert Spencer literature.

Second paragraph bunch of rubbish. When was the last time you made a insulting cartoon about.... Hindus? Never happened before. It's not about us wanting respect, it's about us getting the respect everyone else receives.
Either way WE WILL get that respect, and there ain't a damn thing you can do about that.

Freedom.... freedom.... freedom.......... No-one gives a fuck about your freedom you old cunt. I don't. Go out and practice your freedom, let's see how brave you are. Tell everyone about your homosexual fantasies. Your just a fake. On a website your all talk, but in the open YOU KEEP YOUR MOUTH SHUT, like the good little Dhimmi you are.

You quote passages from the Quran like you know what it means. (9:29)does not apply to you unless you were one of the Quraysh. If you were then boy, after attacking and killing the Muslims for 13 years, they finally fight back, and still give you a choice. I can't think of a more humane way to treat enemies in battle. They are lucky they didn't get slaughtered.

I'll tell you what, if your government says Hamas are terrorists, bollocks. You're a bunch of liars. You'd lie about anything as long as it's in your interests. You lied about Saddam, you lied about 9/11, you lie about Iran. My conclusion on Hamas is based entirely on what I hear in the Western media, which I don't trust anyway. I'm a free man practicing freedom of speech, freedom of thought and freedom of religion. The difference between me and you is that I'm not sadistic. I'll practice these freedom's without overstepping the boundary. You on the other hand get a kick out of the suffering of Muslims. Fine, think what you like.

Wow, according to this clown whose obviously been to Palestine, the Palestinians are animals and the Jews are like this creation that God blessed.

Them Jews must have you wrapped around their little finger mate.
How many of them are there and they literally RUN your country. You say one word against a Jew, thats it your finished.
I don't expect much love coming from the Jews anytime soon. They still think God chose them over all of humanity. LOL. And pigs can fly.
You know how many peace activists and reporters have been murdered by the Jews, just because they wanted to let the world know?
Above all, God sees everything and will give justice to the Palestinians who were denied it on this earth.

Your money doesn't go to ease the suffering of the Palestinians, it only goes to create further problems for them by causing a war between fatah and Hamas. All that money goes to fatah so they can buy arms. But you still haven't learnt that Muslims will never choose you over fellow Muslims.

9/11 had nothing to do with Bin Laden check the FBI website. If it weren't Bin Laden then who was it, the Taliban? Bin Laden denied it and then a videotape comes out saying he did it. Only for that video tape to look nothing like Bin Laden.

You come up with all these elaborate stories to proof certain Muslims had something to do with 9/11, but if it's not true, you will never fool anyone.

A story about humans somehow defying the laws of physics not once but numerous times (once is enough), doesn't do it for me.
So Afghanistan was illegal. So was Iraq, unless you were on the moon. He lied, lied, lied, lied, lied. And now says but they got democracy now. But what about the weapons??
You obviously have knowledge about Iraqi weapons that Hans Blix and a team of experts couldn't find. Where are these weapons exactly?

If one check was the whole basis for war, then why didn't Bush say that? Instead of lying to the world.

I know for a fact that horrific loss of life you are referring to, is not including the 600,000 Iraqi's who have died. I just don't see why your soldiers are dying. For what is the question?

No, jizya is not about people becoming second class citizens. You think there is a link between (9:29) and normal sharia law but in the space of let's see.... 1 minute that whole perverted belief you had, has come crashing down. (9:29) fight the Quraysh. Sharia law regarding the dhimmi's pay jizya, which is nothing, drink, eat pork, keep your customs and have your churches and synogogues protected. No Zakah is required of you, nor do you have to fight alongside the Muslims. WOW, all that for a few pennies, what a bargain. If you don't like it, go to another country.

Get a bit more knowledge old man. I don't think there's one country in today's world where Jizya is demanded of the non-Muslim citizens. I doubt there is a country which follows authentic Sharia, if at all; they all have their variants influenced by culture and tradition.
So if mistreatment of dhimmi's takes place, blame the people not Islam. Can't do that though can you? Why is a homosexual like you even talking. Like you have such high moral standards. If they are punished they are punished because they broke the law.

Why don't you launch a crusade and help them? Is it because, they are treated just as well as the Muslims???? They might laugh at you, more like. One or two incidents and you jump at it, like it's an epidemic. Muslims are humans too, except they don't some of the shit you do. Like you will never get an Imam molesting a child. I would never trust those Bishops again.

Wear your non-dhimmi badge with honour, what does it prove? That you don't live in a non-Muslim country??

That Iraqi girl who was raped and murdered is just one of hundreds of stories, that are suppressed by the Western media. They will never get justice. So much for your war against 'evil'.

Your a brave man, or a fake. The law may not exist but why will you offend someone, only for old-ass to get knocked out?

All them years and you still haven't learnt basic manners? Someone will beat it into you I'm afraid. If your parents haven't already.

The man can't even spell DA VINCI properly. Get the glasses out.

I've said what I needed to say regarding the insults, it's now up to you old man whether you choose to take my words seriously or not, because you must be deluded to think you can say whatever you want to people.

Your worries about Islam are not exaggerated they are downright ridiculous. Let's see what you say on (9:29), you won't be able to wriggle out of that one I'm afraid. Lack of knowledge is your downfall. On Islam you know a few words and you think you know it all. Despite your age, you can always learn something new.

I didn't know it was a tactic to bring up the Russians. You'll see for yourself, what an utter mess your president has got you into.

If I were you, I'd stay well away from bringing up Islam again because it must be painful when your hit with a reply thats too perfect to be errmm let's see 'Taqqiya'.

Mo foe you little rat..... senor your my hero.....
Why you hiding behind this weakling anyway. Come forward and speak let's see what knowledge you have. Bunch of homos.

Senor, lesson is dismissed.

Quraysh. thesaracen ,”You quote passages from the Quran like you know what it means. (9:29)does not apply to you unless you were one of the Quraysh. If you were then boy, after attacking and killing the Muslims for 13 years, they finally fight back, and still give you a choice. I can't think of a more humane way to treat enemies in battle. They are lucky they didn't get slaughtered.”

The Quraysh… hmmm… That was the tribe Mohamet and his minions kept raiding their caravans, stealing from, and killing, before they got fed up with him and his bandit? Nice the old Mohammedan habit of claiming the victims had it coming because they incited the perpetrators, by… just being there?

And the Qurash were victims of the genocide ordered by Mohammedan before Chapter 9… so try your Taqqiya else where, the verse stands and says.

Koran Chapter 9 Verse 29 (One of many militant verses in the Sword Chapter)
YUSUFALI: Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued.
PICKTHAL: Fight against such of those who have been given the Scripture as believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, and forbid not that which Allah hath forbidden by His messenger, and follow not the Religion of Truth, until they pay the tribute readily, being brought low.
SHAKIR: Fight those who do not believe in Allah, nor in the latter day, nor do they prohibit what Allah and His Messenger have prohibited, nor follow the religion of truth, out of those who have been given the Book, until they pay the tax in acknowledgment of superiority and they are in a state of subjection.

Oh, good lesson on Taqqiya there, thesaracen... LOL

You have become completely unhinged. You have shown you have mastered every debating tactic of a Mohammedan and perfected your Dawah to the point you even insult fellow Mohammedan from Turkey (You’re showing the inherent Arab supremacist nature of Mohammedanism, this is helping to cause that slaughter of African-Mohammedan by Arab-Mohammedan.).

I think, I will let you rant and spit invectives like I did last time, you expose the tenets of Mohamet and the character of those that follow them very nicely on your own.

Lastly on word usage, for yet another time, I get to choose the words I use and so do you… and you do it soooo… WELL to… convey your… err… Dawah, ROFLMAO.

Catch ya later, thesaracen… it’s been a real amusing weekend. LOL

senor doeboy- Don't debate me again. For a long time, I avoided insulting you as you did me and my religion and my fellow brothers.
So me being unhinged is not dawah or the characteristics of a Muslim, but a lesson for you, a painful one at that, judging by your change in tone.

You speak English? In English Mohammed is spelt Mohammed not Mohamet.

And yes I think I answered (9:29). You just can't accept it.

The supremacist nature is all coming from you, deep down you know that pride will not allow a Muslim to lecture you.
How many times have I seen it, let's see 'you still using that infidel invention' (the internet). What is that if it's not supremacist thinking?

If the Sudanese are killing fellow Muslims, they are not my brothers neither are they Muslim. Why don't you go and invade them and take their oil? You want to act like police don't pick and choose countries, you should have intervened in Bosnia immediately.

From now on, do not debate me, unless you truly want to know about Islam.

Sorry thes - but I declare senor doeboy the winner on this discussion - you don't hold a candle to his arguments.

thesaracen:
How many times have I seen it, let's see 'you still using that infidel invention' (the internet). What is that if it's not supremacist thinking?

The truth.