I very seriously doubt this will ever happen, in light of the restrictions Muhammad himself placed on the presence of non-Muslims in Arabia: "I will expel the Jews and Christians from the Arabian Peninsula and will not leave any but Muslim."
"Vatican plans to open church in Saudi Arabia," by Malcolm Moore in the Telegraph (thanks to all who sent this in):
The Vatican is in negotiations with Saudi Arabia to open the first Catholic church in the kingdom.Archbishop Mounged El-Hachem, the papal envoy to Kuwait, Qatar, Bahrain, Yemen and the United Arab Emirates said talks had started a few weeks ago, in the wake of King Abdullah’s visit to Pope Benedict last November.
Currently, all Saudi citizens are required by law to be Muslim, and the Mutaween, or religious police, strictly prohibits the public practice of non-Muslim religions.
The last Christian priest was expelled from the kingdom in 1985.
However, the Vatican’s relationship with the Muslim world is improving rapidly, and Qatar opened its first Catholic church on Sunday.
Mgr El-Hachem said a church in Saudi Arabia would be an important sign of “reciprocity” between the faiths....
Yeah, just don't walk in it because after you walk out - you are a 'dead (wo)man walking'.
I don't trust them.
I would say having them stopping the export of jihadists, stopping the paying of jihadist training, and stopping the export of wahabbism would be another step that the saudis should be taking. And until jihad isn't their first order of business - I wouldn't trust them. All the princes will tell us after their people have killed (and done other things) to the Christians is that they cannot control their people - or tell them no-no since under sharia law - it is ok to kill infidels.
Like I said, I don't trust them.
“The Vatican described the private meeting as "warm" and said the two men discussed the presence and hard work of Christians in Saudi Arabia.”
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/7080327.stm
http://www.jihadwatch.org/dhimmiwatch/archives/018702.php
Guess they are warming up, but for what?
Both sides also emphasized the need for a "just solution" to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, the Vatican said.
Just a thought,
I'm not sure how the Pope fits in here.
But something is up when I hear the phrase "just solution".
Regardless, it is a shrewd move by Benedict, in my opinion.
I share Robert's skepticism, but I've always maintained that breaking THIS particular taboo will be a tell-tale sign that Islam is being successfully tamed. Time will tell.
Good, but I hope that the Vatican will not then acquiesce to the building of another 1000 mosques in Italy for this one bomb magnet in Saudi Arabia.
I hope that if this church does open in Saudi Arabia, the Vatican would not defend mosques in Europe from being investigated for preaching violence or being supported by Saudi Arabia.
The Vatican should not ally at all with Islam; you can't trust them as friends.
Who is going to attend this church in Saudi Arabia? Anyone seen entering this structure will be facing mutawa justice.
Will the church contain religious literature, crucifix, bells, statues of significant religious icons etc.? How will these items get through Saudi customs?
Color me skeptical.
If this proceeds...
the Saudi's will only allow this with an approved form of lessons. These lessons will be very 'pro-muslim', 'Jesus was a prophet not the Son of God' type lessons.
In return the Saudi's will demand more islamic presence in Catholic churches around the world.
This is a 'trojan horse' and it is the Vatican that has good intentions but time will tell that they will have been greatly decieved.
Will the Catholic church be opened and have a great press release? Or will the Vatican publically release those 'negotiated' rules that was agreed upon?
A Common word New Signatories
243 • Congressman Keith Ellison
The Fifth Congressional District of Minnesota, United States House of Representatives, USA
March 09, 2008
http://www.acommonword.com/index.php?lang=en&page=new
They should build it next to all of the Synogogues.
Until the caretakers of Islam speak on this, it will Not happen. Only after Islam is ripped from political power will something like this even be a possibility.
If they build this it will be for political reasons only. They will be able to say "look how tolerant we are".
Mosques all over the west, no restrictions.
Church in Saudi?
Can't see it happening.
They have been reading Jihadwatch.
We have been saying we are waiting for the first church in the "magic kingdom" as parity.
I still cannot believe this will happen, it has got to be just a ploy.
"However, the Vatican’s relationship with the Muslim world is improving rapidly, and Qatar opened its first Catholic church on Sunday.
Mgr El-Hachem said a church in Saudi Arabia would be an important sign of “reciprocity” between the faiths...."
-- from the article above
No, the Vatican's relationship "with the Muslim world" is not "improving rapidly." It isn't improving at all. What has happened is that the Vatican is now being run by those -- Pope Benedict, Cardinal Tauran -- who by showing a clear understanding of things, need to be treated with a bit more outward respect, and a little cosmetic concession here and there.
The church in Qatar ballyhooed above is merely a building, not recognizable from the outside -- no cross or crosses, no bell-tower or bells -- and as long as the Christians keep very quiet, they will be allowed, those guest workers, to enter and exit for services. But that's it. No proselytizing, and if so much as one Qatari attends services or converts -- well, that church will be closed down overnight.
As for these "negotiations" for a church in Saudi Arabia, the Saudis will drag it out interminably, all the while pointing to those negotiations and plans as a sign of Saudi goodwill -- pointing out that is to Westerners, never failing to mention it on every conceivable occasion. It will come to nothing, or very little. The Saudis certainly do not plan on any "reciprocity" about anything. This is all in the realm of public relations.
Why is the Vatican engaged in it, then? Because it wishes to put Saudi Arabia to the test, and because it is thinking more of some slight benefit, somehow -- oh, perhaps British nurses will no longer be imprisoned or expelled for singing Christmas carols behind closed doors -- and are not thinking about the propagandistic uses to which this will be put by the Saudis and other Muslims.
That's alright. Keep up the test, and watch vigilantly how the Saudis behave. They will not disappoint.
Gramfan,
I don't believe they'll do it for Any reason, for their faith would be damaged beyond repair. If the home of Islam doesn't abide by Mohammed's rule, then Mohammed loses power in the world. A good thing for the world, but self-destructive for Islam. And if we've learned anything, the enemy will choose Islam over good, over life itself Any day. This would be Too much of a concession just in order to tell us Infidels 'SEE! we're tolerant.' Absolutely Not.
Unless this church is public with a cross on display it won't accomplish much.
Robert,
I'm pretty sure theres already a church or two in ARAMCO compounds around Saudi. But of course that is not accessible to the general public only (mostly) American expats in Saudi in the sequestered barricaded compounds of the Arab-American Oil Company (ARAMCO).
Unless this church is public with a cross on display it won't accomplish much.
Saying this is not accurate.
In the early days of the church during the Roman persecutions Christians worshiped in hiding from Roman authorites. They were martyred in horrible ways for the pleasure of the Roman games. Eventually the church flourished.
Do I think Christianity will flourish in Saudi Arabia? Logically I say no. But my heart says "who knows"?
I don't discount the power of Jesus Christ.
Also, even though I don't agree with them theologically, many very good & well intentioned Protestants have services in homes and commerical buildings, coverting many people to Christ.
This won't be the first time that a church is built in Saudi Arabia.
There were many Christians living in the Arabian Peninsula during the time of Muhammad.
Christianity was once well established in Saudi Arabia.
Read
Saudi Arabia
RELIGION
Early Development of Islam
From the Library of Congress Country Study on Saudi Arabia
"Although Muhammad had enjoined the Muslim community to convert the infidel, he had also recognized the special status of the "people of the book," Jews and Christians, whose scriptures he considered revelations of God's word that contributed in some measure to Islam."
"Inhabiting the Arabian Peninsula in Muhammad's time were Christians, Jews, and Hanifs, believers in an indigenous form of monotheism who are mentioned in the Quran. Medina had a substantial Jewish population, and villages of Jews dotted the Medina oases."
"Clusters of Christian monasteries were located in the northern Hijaz, and Christians were known to have visited seventh-century Mecca. Some Arabic-speaking tribal people were Christian, including some from the Najdi interior and the well-known Ghassanids and Lakhmids on the Arabian borderlands with Constantinople."
"Najran, a city in the southwest of present-day Saudi Arabia, had a mixed population of Jews, Christians, and pagans, and had been ruled by a Jewish king only fifty years before Muhammad's birth. In sixth-century Najran, Christianity was well established and had a clerical hierarchy of nuns, priests, bishops, and lay clergy. Furthermore, there were Christian communities along the gulf, especially in Bahrain, Oman, and Aden (in present-day Yemen)."
Read it all here:
http://www.au.af.mil/au/awc/awcgate/loc/sa/early_islam.htm
They will never build a church in Saudi ARabia! This is another slimy Saudi trick, a ruse, a ploy to appear tolerant. I heard a Saudi prince state unequivocally that islam and islam alone is the only faith that can ever be openly practiced in Saudi Arabia. Why? Because allah decreed it.
They will continue to use the trillions that we pay them in oil revenues to spread their vile and deadly creed around the world. The ignorant, suicidal, elitiest Western traitors (politicians) who manage to circumvent the wishes of the people will continue to allow them to immigrate and build their tacky mosques all over the West, while admonishing the masses for islamophobia and bigotry.
One day, after tensions escalate to the boiling point, the bully muslims will learn that we intend to preserve our lands, cultures, religions, and civilization just like the slimy, lying Saudis preserve theirs, despite the incessant elitist sermons on the joys and advantages of their imposed multiculturalism that we never asked for and never wanted. One day, a new breed of politicians will emerge and end the Saudi travesty that current politicians call an "alliance". I hope I am still around to see the day an American president tells the Saudis to drop dead and ends the blackmail, extortion, and total farce that is responsible for 9-11 and the spread of islamic terror, islamic immigration to the West, and the other assorted nightmares inflicted on the West by the Saudi savages. Their oil is not and and has never been worth the price we have paid for it.
Little boy voice: I see dead people
"Vatican plans to open church in Saudi Arabia"
Freezes Over Hell When
I'll believe it once Constantinople is christian and Yatrib jewish.
Mgr El-Hachem said a church in Saudi Arabia would be an important sign of “reciprocity” between the faiths....
Give me a break, if the Vatican achieved reciprocity, the Pope would be indicted for war crimes.
Huh?
Where'd that come from?
Please explain that stupid comment, Ralph.
HAID