"Wilders' announcement came as the Danish Prime Minister urged the EU to remember its commitment to freedom of expression." I believe the EU has already forgotten any such commitment.
"Public premiere cancelled for controversial dutch film," from EuroNews (thanks to Morgaan Sinclair):
Right-wing dutch politician Geert Wilders has canceled the public launch of his controversial anti-Islamic film due, he says, to huge security costs. The 15-minute documentary entitled "FITNA" will now only be viewable on the internet. Wilders' announcement came as the Danish Prime Minister urged the EU to remember its commitment to freedom of expression....
Pansey!
At least it will be viewable on the internet. The lack of fanfare will not reduce the intensity of the reaction, violence, one iota. I need to get some popcorn.
Has Wilders lost his nerve to the extent that the video wil never see the light of day?
"the Danish Prime Minister urged the EU to remember its commitment to freedom of expression"
Perhaps he would like to enforce it in his own country
The film will be shown in Denmark, of that I have no doubt; then the Danish Prime Minister's commitment will be tested.
Terrorism works.
Message received.
People, he said "due to huge security costs."
That's called "money." That's a valid reason! I don't think we should be calling him a "pansy" as he is obviously not.
Anyone know what site yet???
It's too bad that they didn't try to raise funds to help defray the security costs-I would have donated.
Does anyone know of any screenings in other European countries, or anywhere else?
The Brussels Journal has more on this story:
http://www.brusselsjournal.com/node/3084
what a disaster!
The Dutch showed what stuff they were made of two years ago, when they made life impossible for Ayaan Hirsi Ali, an elected member of their parliament, just like Mr Wilders. Her neighbours sued to get her removed from the apartment where she was living under police protection. The court of appeal ordered Ms Hirsi Ali to leave her house within four months, invoking… the European treaty for Human Rights.
When will we get to actually SEE this thing?
It most likely is not his call.
The facility where the event was to be hosted has much at stake, and probably evaluated it as too severe of a risk.
If your going to call anyone a Pansi, or perhaps Dhimmi, it would have to be those who do not see the importance of standing up for freedom, despite the risks and costs.
Obviously, with all the risks taken already, Wilders is one who understands the value of standing up for freedom.
Do not do him the disservice of calling him a pansy.
"Public Premier" meaning on public broadcast television, I assume? If so, that is a defeat for free speech, but not a total defeat for the film, which will be widely viewed on the internet. The predictable seething will ensue, which will further add to the interest in, and distribution of, the film. I firmly believe this film will be the cause of worldwide headlines simply due to the crazed outrage soon to be on exhibit.
As for calling Wilders a "pansy," that is below contempt. This man courageously makes a stand, with death threats upon his head, as an actual public figure voicing concerns on the Islamization of Europe. We all post here anonymously. Wilders lives in seclusion every day, and sleeps with one eye open for publicly stating what many of us state anonymously here every day. Wilders is a hero.
Credit Man, you are way out of line with that comment.
The big story here is that Wilders can't play his movie because of the threat ROPers pose to those attending. You know, the kind of stuff that happens in third world failed states.
The Moneyed Interests in the Netherlands weighed in to protect what is Really Important. What is the survival of the Dutch, of what makes the Dutch the Dutch, their art and science and winsome sometimes wayward ways, compared to the amount of Hellmann's mayonnaise that Unilever has gotten used to selling in Abu Dhabi, and Riyadh, and Rawalpindi?
This is the voice of Scheming Greed speaking. This is the voice that Pieter Menten would recognize.
'As for calling Wilders a "pansy," that is below contempt. This man courageously makes a stand, with death threats upon his head, as an actual public figure voicing concerns on the Islamization of Europe. We all post here anonymously.'
You got that right!
The quality of some posters has drifted to the level of the trailer park recently.
"Right-wing dutch politician Geert Wilders has canceled the public launch of his controversial anti-Islamic film due, he says, to huge security costs."
And yet these same Euro-politicians gladly fork over hundreds of millions of euros to the palestinians to purchase a false sense of security in the ME.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rkRIbUT6u7Q
The Dutch government won't spend a nickel to protect Wilders but it will waste money on Koranist demands without hesitation. As far as I'm concerned Holland is part of the ummah.
Discretion is the better part of valor, even in this case.
Credit Man, you are way out of line with that comment.
Posted by: JohnAdams at March 13, 2008 11:07 AM
Yes, I believe we all agree on that. Wilders is deserving of our unwavering support and admiration. He is the furthest thing from a wimp there is, along with RS, Wafa Sultan, Ibn Warriq, you know all the names.
As far as I'm concerned Holland is part of the ummah.
Posted by: ISLAMSFORLOSERS at March 13, 2008 11:18 AM
Sadly, I see what you're saying.
I think Wilders has made a bit of a tactical error here in upping the anti and advertising it long before the event. This has allowed the forces of reaction to group against him. He should have kept it quiet and then sneaked it out all quite innocently. Perhaps using a 'front' organisation as a cover - like they do.
Bad news that YouTube even pulled the trailer.
Someone asks: when are we going to see it?
But who is this film for? Us or them? We're converted; so no use in us seeing it - unless as 'therapy'. It's obviously aimed at them. We need to figure ways of getting criticism out that doesn't attract this kind of adverse attention before the event.
Occasionally I wonder if he's playing a bit of a cat and mouse game. A bit like Saddam's weapons of mass destruction. Maybe there's no film at all.
They wanted 15 MILLION DOLLARS for security to premiere a 15 minute film in a theater. He doesn't HAVE 15 million dollars and the government wasn't about to put it up. That makes him a 'pansy'???
If Muslims ignored the cartoons and a film like this - ironically these events would hardly make a ripple and the dhimmification of Europe could proceed right along. ISLAM is waking us up, Wilders is just waving the red flag in front of the mad bull.
I sent Geert Wilders an email a week or so ago, thanking him for his work as a politician (even though I'm not Dutch) and a citizen. John Adams-you're exactly right. I (and I imagine most others) post here anonymously because I would fear for my safety, otherwise, but Geert Wilders is living those fears every day. I am disappointed that he had to cancel the public premier but I think that he made the right decision in light of the impossibility of being able to pay for adequate security. After all, the world needs Geert Wilders and his supporters to be alive and well!
People, he said "due to huge security costs."
That's called "money." That's a valid reason! I don't think we should be calling him a "pansy" as he is obviously not.
Posted by: darcy
Darcy exactly right...Wilders is theeee only politician with any spine, and he's got plenty of spine.
Dutch did this with Fortyn also, setting him up to be assassinated by a leftist Islamic supporter.
As for the description "right winged"....it's such a slander to call someone right winged because one opposes the destruction of their society. By that token, branding someone from the left you could say is one that supports the destruction of their society.....which is actually an accurate description for those marxist worms.
Isn't The outrage and threats about a movie that no one has seen enough to open the worlds eyes to the tue nature of Islam? We are in serious trouble.
There has been a lot of additions to this site since I visited it to weeks ago.
http://www.themoviefitna.com/
It's more likely the cops pulled the plug on it rather than Wilders himself, which says a lot really about public perception of Islamist tendencies. They *know* showing this film will result in violence, and as they'd then be liable, they cannot allow it to go ahead.
The next steps will be tertiary targeting, seeing as they can't get to Wilders. The hosting company, website designers involved, the bloke delivering the milk to the website designers, etc etc.
Basically, everything Robert has to live with.
Pelayo that site is blocked at my work under "pornography" lol
Wow, this is the Wilders site:
http://www.fitnathemovie.com/
The other site has an almost identical look.
I guess what I am saying is you can wind them up just as much by threatening something than actually doing it.
Or are they going to try to stop this too?
People, he said "due to huge security costs."
That's called "money." That's a valid reason! I don't think we should be calling him a "pansy" as he is obviously not.
darcy, IOTW, terrorism works.
This isn't a reflection on Mr. Wilders. He most certainly is not a "pansy". But what about the rest of us? Mr. Wilders is not allowed to voice his views without fear of reprisal from criminals and without fearing for his safety or the safety of those who would see the movie. Wilders wouldn't have to be at a public showing but the people who do go would be at risk. Wilders knows this and acts responsibly. For that, he is a statesman. Obviously most Western governments have done nothing to prevent such networks of terrorists from operating freely or they wouldn't feel free to make public threats and necessitate "huge security costs" for a MOVIE. We the people accept this outcome. Terrorism works.
"upping the anti.."
-- from a posting above
A useful error.
"John Adams-you're exactly right. I (and I imagine most others) post here anonymously because I would fear for my safety, otherwise, "
I couldn't read this site openly in the University computer lab.
"I think Wilders has made a bit of a tactical error here in upping the anti and advertising it long before the event. This has allowed the forces of reaction to group against him. He should have kept it quiet and then sneaked it out all quite innocently... Maybe there's no film at all."
This was my thinking as well for some time back, since there was so much fanfare about it long before he had even started filming.
Given that he had to know what the reaction would be, I kept wondering why he would keep making so much press about it long before its release ... almost as if he was trying looking forward to the expected reaction.
I hope the film gets posted on the internet, but if it doesn't, he has still made his point. And perhaps an even better point, if its never released.
Because its simply amazing how much rage has been exhibited around the world over a film that has not even been released, and no one really knows for sure exactly what the content is.
Sneakyzionistcrusader, some site blocking software can be infuriating. I used to work at a place where information on plumbing and sewage equipment was blocked for the same reason. I was once blocked from opening a pdf document that discussed pipe sleeves because the word penetration was used.
Did anyone ever think Mr.Wilder's film would be broadcast on state televison?
It was always going to be on the internet and I'm glad it is too.
I want my Teddy bear...
Wilders cancels public premiere of Qur'an film for security reasons
Well, the Muslim Mafia won this round.
By the way, Credit Man, what is your real name? We'll see who the real pansy is.
"I couldn't read this site openly in the University computer lab."
Why not, Big Luke? Scared?
Dutch international companies, fearing a boycott of their products by Muslims, have announced that they intend to hold Mr Wilders responsible for a loss of profits and markets in the event of a boycott. They have asked Gerard Spong, one of the top lawyers in the Netherlands, to see whether a court case claiming damages from Wilders will be possible. Mr Spong and several other lawyers have already lodged some fifty formal complaints against the politician for “incitement to racial hatred and discrimination of Muslims” because Mr Wilders expressed the opinion that the Koran is “a fascist book which should be banned in the Netherlands.”
(from http://www.brusselsjournal.com/node/3084)
What a lost cause Holland is.
But who is this film for? Us or them? We're converted; so no use in us seeing it - unless as 'therapy'. It's obviously aimed at them.
devorgilla,
Them? Them isn't the Muslims. They don't want to see this film, except for the talking points they can get from it (make that shouting points - for their next demonstration).
Them is the people like the journalist in this story who began it with "Right-wing dutch politician Geert Wilders".
Them is the good people in the Netherlands and around the world who still believe Islam has been "hijacked by extremists" and who believe Wilders and all who think as he does are extremist.
You're right that it's not aimed at us but it's still important for us to see it because the more people that see it the more people that talk about it, the less the MSM and officialdom will be able to ignore it. Wilders needs our support.
This is an awful setback, but w/ the help of Jihad Watch and crew I'm sure the word will get around. Keep up the good work folks!
Person of the book,
Your reference to the "muslim mafia".
I would hardly say that...
It is a case of PC on behalf of civilised nations.
It is in no way a victory of any "mafia" they may (or us) think they have.
If push comes to shove I would say we have many mafia organisations of our own to see off these misinformed and brainwashed people at the end of the day.
I think the world has become complacent and irresponsible to the very freedom of life we enjoy. It breaks my heart that the freedoms that democratic nations throughout the world live under are being eroded in the name of PC and multiculturalism. Freedom is not free we know that and it comes with a very big price...very big! So let's not forget it.
Moreover, I do not think compromise can work when it comes to individual liberties and equality. Something has to give...we need to wake up before it is too late.
Wilders has proven his point.
Even if there's no movie at all...
Person of the book,
Your reference to the "muslim mafia".
I would hardly say that...
It is a case of PC on behalf of civilised nations.
It is in no way a victory of any "mafia" they may (or us) think they have.
If push comes to shove I would say we have many mafia organisations of our own to see off these misinformed and brainwashed people at the end of the day.
Posted by: Ken CleanAirSystem at March 13, 2008 12:32 PM
Technically, you are probably right. However, both openly and behind the scenes there are plenty of threats and intimidation from the Muslim Mafia, causing the Dhimmis to act the way they do.
It's just sad that they wimped out so quickly and so completely.
I don't pretend to understand Mr. Wilder's strategy surrounding the film's release, but he certainly has succeeded in exposing both the cowardice and the moral and financial whoredom of many of his critics. I only hope our mitt romneys and sue myricks can one day become as straightforward as Wilders about that fascist 'fountainhead.'
Here are some additional details on the screening:
The Nieuwspoort press center in The Hague, which is run by a board of journalists, publishers and government press officers, demanded that Wilders pay 400,000 euros for extra safety measures. “Apparently, you have to be a millionaire to organize such an event,” Mr Wilders said. “Even if I had the money I am not going to spend it on a press conference.”
from the Brussels Journal
http://www.brusselsjournal.com/node/3084
Is this the same Danish Prime Minister who, a week ago, had committed his government to using every legal means possible to prevent the publication of Wilders' documentary?
Geert proved his point by the demand for all the extra security.
This is what a stranglehold on a country looks like. The more Islam, the tighter the strangle. The more Islam the higher the security costs, film or no silly film. Due to the cowardly nature of our elitists and substantial segment of population, more will be given away by the dhimmis, less for the native citizens. The country as you know it will be no more. Just ask the Dutch. Now the Muslims will go watch this film on the internet and the religion of the perpetually offended will fire up their 7th century butchery anyway. Be ready.
"I couldn't read this site openly in the University computer lab."
'Why not, Big Luke? Scared?'
LOL! FTLOG :-)
You can almost hear the snide reedy Peewee Herman voice ImNoDhimmi wrote that in.
But all this raises an interesting issue. How many people can read this site openly without fear of losing their job or the risk of a complaint of harrassment?
Another site of interest.
http://www.groepwilders.com/data.aspx?ID=4
Well, my boss would probably be proud of me if he knew that I read this site. :) I work in an office in which people tend to be a bit more "traditional" (not really the word that I'm looking for but I can't think of a better one)...a bit liberal (in the European sense of the word) and conservative (in the American sense of the word), though, and I don't think that my situation is similar to that of many others.
Interestingly enough, I've always considered myself to be left-wing, but my concerns over individual human rights and personal freedoms has ended up pushing me more to the right. I would never have expected that to happen...
This is OT but important.
http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/story?id=4443788&page=1
Another enforcement of islam's perverse blasphemy laws, in Western Civilization.
Archimedes2
"Is this the same Danish Prime Minister who, a week ago, had committed his government to using every legal means possible to prevent the publication of Wilders' documentary?"
No. That would be the Dutch PM? The Dutch and the Danes are not the same people.
"But all this raises an interesting issue. How many people can read this site openly without fear of losing their job or the risk of a complaint of harrassment?"
Posted by: Big Luke
****************************
Definitely not me. I work in a university. :-)
Universities used to embrace discussion and open debate. They've now become rigid institutions designed to form opinions rather than create a climate of discovery.
the Danish Prime Minister urged the EU to remember its commitment to freedom of expression." I believe the EU has already forgotten any such commitment.
Well, you can chalk another victory up to the Muslims. I don't blame Wilders for cancelling the film. he was probably under so much intense pressure from Western poitical leaders to cancel the film, that he didn't have much choice. It's bad enough to be pressured and threatened by your enemies, but when your own leaders threaten and pressure you, what choice do yoy have?
Evidently, the Danish Prime Minister is the only leader in Europe who understands what's at stake here: Freedom. Once the EU caves into this kind of Muslim intimidation, it becomes easier and easier to cave in each time Muslims make another demand.
The EU should demand that the film be aired, and provide all the security necessary.
This is a tragedy for the people of Europe.
This is OT but important.
http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/story?id=4443788&page=1
Posted by: interestinconundrum
*****************************************
Wow!
Maybe Obama will choose his pastor to be his running mate?
Anybody that would have an idiot like this for his pastor (20+ years) isn't worthy of holding any office.
It's my guess it all started with demands for foot baths at airports, and now they're dictating what can be printed in newspapers and aired on television.
Each time a society caves in to their demands, they rachet up the demands. We're seeing the same process playing out here in America.
Stop it now, or it's only going to get worse, and principles people died to preserve are going to be a thing of the past.
I've been following this story for a few months now, and I don't have nearly anything like all the details. If anyone can add to the story I have, please feel free to drop in at No Dhimmitude to leave whatever else is available.
Meanwhile, those in Vancouver, Canada are welcome to join us at the city library each and every Thursday evening from 7-9:00 p.m. for our public meetings in the atrium (outside Blenz coffee bar) where we discuss related issues and plan further actions, such as demonstrating against jihadis in this city, a regular occurrence.
StephenDVD writes:
'Because its simply amazing how much rage has been exhibited around the world over a film that has not even been released, and no one really knows for sure exactly what the content is. '
Precisely. Maybe that's his point. Maybe he's trying to expose this rage for what it is. What if he were to release the film ... and it contained nothing at all... or nothing controversial? Maybe it's an experiement to wind Muslims up and see how far they will go in terms of violent reaction without any actual hard evidence.
Wilders' best bet: An internet site where his documentary film can be accessed and watched by people all over the world 24/7 52 weeks a year!!
Wilders' best bet: An internet site where his documentary film can be accessed and watched by people all over the world 24/7 52 weeks a year!!
Wilders has proven his point.
Even if there's no movie at all...
Posted by: LazarOfSerbia at March 13, 2008 12:48 PM
I think so too, this is just another nail in the multicult coffin.
Dutch publicly funded broadcasters don't want to show "Fitna" but they're fine with "Little Mosque on the Prairie".
http://www.euro-islam.info/spip/article.php3?
id_article=2162
'Small town Canada with a little muslim twist'
http://www.cbc.ca/littlemosque/
Posted by: dag at March 13, 2008 2:45 PM
What?, no link to JW/DW on your blog?
Shameful.
Sorry the first link didn't work.
February 19, 2008
“Little Mosque on the Prairie” will begin airing in the Netherlands, Belgium, and Switzerland later this year.
"The demand for ’Little Mosque on the Prairie’ from the European broadcasting community has been incredible... "We continue to receive numerous serious inquiries from top broadcasters throughout Europe who are interested in acquiring the show in various formats" said executive producer Mary Darling."
Geert Wilders is a genius. It is infuriating to see the pejorative term "right-wing" automatically affixed to his name whenever it appears in the MSM, with its not-so-subtle implication that he is part of the lunatic fringe and is to be avoided. Rather, he is a man of rare courage and principle who is fighting our fight and deserves all our support.
Certainly Wilders must have considered the possibility his work would be banned in the Netherlands. He should shop around, maybe talk to his neighbors to the north about getting it screened in Denmark. Here, the politicians seem to have some backbone and a better understanding than the Dutch about the underlying problem of Islam as a violence-sanctioning philosophy threatening Western civilization.
We can take a cue from Wilders and ask what similar strategies can be pursued to help educate the civilized world about the true nature of Islam? The thing that Muslims seem to be most offended by is being mocked. Now, Political Correctness dictates that we should all avoid unnecessarily offending anyone. For civilized people this is good policy, but it appears to be counterproductive with Muslims. The mere existence of kuffars seems to offend them so it would appear the PC approach is doomed to failure, no matter how well noble the underlying intent is. So,let's fire up the Mock Machine! How about a series of high profile works simply making fun of their moon-god and its pedophile prophet? How about an Islamic equivalent of "Life of Brian"? How about a daily comic strip? The MSM won't carry any of this, of course, but the Internet is a better distribution media anyway.
Our God is a Unique God. Some time, He uses even the Satan to do His works. The Message of Islam was being maligned and degraded in the west and this section of God’s societies, that whole of the mankind consuming oxygen are His subjects, were seen going astray; He used Geert Wilders to come up with such a controversial movies like ‘Fitna’ that it made it possible that the latest Commandments are known and can’t be said that they don’t exist?
Whether this ‘Fitan’ film goes public or not; it is immaterial. Existence of Commandment is now well known. A mission is accomplished.
What could be the next?
Now knowing it to be such that the latest Commandments of God are here and it rests with the we don’t take any heed of it. Can the titly bitly creature; these human being dare to defy their creator and for how long?
--------------------------------------
Love for all, Hatred for None
Hi Awake,
I don't have the computer things I would like to have on my blog because I am a techno-idiot. The person who worked on the few things there now is long gone from that project, and I'm still hopelessly offering candy to anyone who will come to my place to fool around further. Yes, "Shame on me."
Regarding Wilders, his film should be out on March 28, via an Internet service company from N. Carolina, if memory serves. For now he and they work to prevent d.o.s. breakdowns. (My first opportunity in all these years to use a techie abbreviation!)
Then I will thank you for the prompting to link JW/DW in the side-bar at my blog. I'm surprised Robert hasn't written before this to complain as well.
Regards, Dag.
Wilders is a sly cardplayer.
He has forced his two main opponents to tip their hands without even showing one card of his own.
He has revealed the Islamic community to be:
timid to the point of useless in this war for Liberty,
or:
incensed supporters of theocratic terrorism and tyranny.
Simultaneously, Mr. W. has exposed his own Dutch government (and the supporting Netherland-ish populace) as meek and easily-cowed suckers for mere cheese money.
Kudos to Geert for this double-whammy.
And a Fitna thrown by all!
Wilders is a Tom Paine for this War.
May his Kelvar be the best.
Little Mosque on the Prairie? I watched an episode on the internet when it first came out in Canada, and personally, I wasn't very impressed. I felt like it was just too "politically correct" and oversimplified, and I didn't think that the characters seemed very realistic. I honestly don't think that many religious Muslims would watch the show, as it does feature unveiled women (some of them are Muslim) and some of the topics are presented in sort of humourous way.
When in the Course of human events it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. — That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, — That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Translate into Dutch.
Rather than a "Little mosque on the prarie", how about an "all in the family?"
They could have a Muslim "meat head" blasting away at his Imam farher-in-law, pointing out how stupid his doctrinal positions on Women, gays and non-Muslims are.
If no punches are pulled, that might be someting worth watching
Khokar: That was very Jonathan Edwards of you.
http://www.ccel.org/ccel/edwards/sermons.sinners.html
Christians are free to not admire him anymore. We are so beyond that kind of thinking.
this could be pure YouTube Gold... Publicity like this, you just can't buy....
"The Message of Islam was being maligned and degraded in the west..."
Untrue. The "Message of Islam" is all but unknown in the West. It is heroes like Geert Wilders who are ripping the mask off the "Religion of Peace" and exposing it's life-despising evil to the West.
May Wilders and all Europeans live to hear their grand children ask "What was 'sharia'?
respectfully, alhamdulillah, this is a victory for respect of your fellow human being, this film had nothing to do with freedom of speech, honestly, you know this was not the intention of the film maker. it was all about his ego and fear of his own intolerance .
islam is the fastest growing religion, alahu akbar, particularly in europe and even in the states, so i think we have need to learn to live together, we have no choice, just statisticly muslims are not going anywhere and praise god swt are increasing, sorry, but this is the reality. this rubbish film is the opposite of peace and tolerance and im personally happy its not showing.
also are you christian? is it a christian thing to purposely hurt the hearts of over a quarter of the worlds population. is this what jesus peace be upon him teaches?
Peace and good night
Talib,
If the film is factually based and true, then it should be shown.
If the film is not factually based and true, then it should still be shown.
When anti-Christian films are shown, we don't threaten violence and commit murder. This is a sharp contrast to Islam as we've all seen.
islam is the fastest growing religion, alahu akbar,
Is that by birth or conversion? Birth I bet. Not all that many are converting and many are apostating, so it is important for you to have even more wives, and children than allowed now. Six wives are better than four. Six wives, your in high gear now. Allahu Akbar...ain't Allah just too good...
Talib,
Am I reading this correctly, "we all have need to to learn to live together?" or did you mean to say that we in the West must abandon all of our ideals, principles, and way of life in order to live peacefully alongside the Muslims in our midst?
When you say "this film had nothing to do with freedom of speech", that "it was all about his ego and fear of his own intolerance," you reveal an appalling ignorance of the principles we in the West cherish and live under.
It makes no difference what Wilder's motives are for making the film. It's his right to show his film publicly without threats and intimidation. That's called freedom, and that freedom doesn't require him to be respectful of Islamic, or any other religious beliefs.
As for Jesus, he has absolutely nothing to do with Mohammad or Islam.
Right, you got me D&D. I figured this out a minute after I pressed "send" (And thank you, Robert, Hugh and all, for not using a button that says "submit"!!!) but was too busy to fire off a correction.
I regret any offense to any old Dutch, Danish or Croissants in the crowd.
BTW, does anyone know if "croissant", which means "crescent", has anything to do with a religious ideology using the crescent as its symbol? Croissants are extremely flaky and mostly full of air.
Talib~
Think very, very hard. Why am I posting you this Russian poem?
http://lightning.prohosting.com/~zhenka/028.html
skevin, asking Talib to parse and understand that poem is like asking a child to read and understand Einstein or Heisenberg. His mental state has been conditioned to filter out anything not falling within the ken of Islamic concepts. Everything else is, by definition, jahiliyyah, and I'm afraid such beautiful poetry as this falls in this category. It's clearly a case of putting "pearls before swine" (how deliciously apt is that, I ask?). Don't waste your time.
"BTW, does anyone know if "croissant", which means "crescent", has anything to do with a religious ideology using the crescent as its symbol? Croissants are extremely flaky and mostly full of air."
Archimedes2,
I understand that the Islamic crecent was indeed the inspiration for the Croissant.
When the Austrians, under Prince Eugene of Savoy, broke the Ottoman seige of Vienna in the late 17th century, they found that Turkish supply boxes, which they captured as booty, were marked with the Crecent.
Austrian bakers used the symbol as their inspiration for inventing the Croissant.
Posted by: dag at March 13, 2008 5:52 PM
Fair enough then.
"Wow!
Maybe Obama will choose his pastor to be his running mate?
Anybody that would have an idiot like this for his pastor (20+ years) isn't worthy of holding any office."
Posted by: The Cool Ghoul
The Cool Ghoul;
O.T. sort of ,but money is on the topic, and this is also important, All should read this..
http://trumanstake.blogspot.com/2008/03/global-poverty-act-of-2007-s2433.html
Your tax dollars at work into the year 2013+??
Ah, you just had to bring Jesus into it, didn't you. Why'd you have to do that?
Matthew 12:34
"You brood of vipers, how can you, being evil, speak what is good? For the mouth speaks out of that which fills the heart."
Matthew 16:23
But He turned and said to Peter, "Get behind Me, Satan! You are a stumbling block to Me; for you are not setting your mind on God's interests, but man's."
Matthew 21:12
And Jesus entered the temple and drove out all those who were buying and selling in the temple, and overturned the tables of the money changers and the seats of those who were selling doves.
Matthew 23:33
"You serpents, you brood of vipers, how will you escape the sentence of hell?"
Luke 12:5
"But I will warn you whom to fear: fear the One who, after He has killed, has authority to cast into hell; yes, I tell you, fear Him!" (Hint! The One is not the devil)
Luke 16:15
And He said to them, "You are those who justify yourselves in the sight of men, but God knows your hearts; for that which is highly esteemed among men is detestable in the sight of God.
John 2:15
And He made a scourge of cords, and drove them all out of the temple, with the sheep and the oxen; and He poured out the coins of the money changers and overturned their tables;
John 6:53
So Jesus said to them, "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink His blood, you have no life in yourselves.
John 8:23-24
And He was saying to them, "You are from below, I am from above; you are of this world, I am not of this world. Therefore I said to you that you will die in your sins; for unless you believe that I am He, you will die in your sins."
John 8:44
" You are of your father the devil, and you want to do the desires of your father. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth because there is no truth in him Whenever he speaks a lie, he speaks from his own nature, for he is a liar and the father of lies.
John 14:6
Jesus said to him, "I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father but through Me.
Jesus Christ. Not a wuss, and arguably the most offensive man in history. He intentionally offended pretty much everybody.
Dear Friends,
I personally think that this Film must be made available for the people to watch.
The evil has its destiny to perish and be humiliated when it comes up to confront the truth. It ultimately… dies its own death.
They say; ‘The cooking pan made of wood may not survive on the fire to cook a soup in it.’
Mr Geert Wilders is victim of his own ego who is wilfully indulging in media hype; knowing it that he will be rejected and resisted but in turn he may gain some fame in the line of fulfilling his ulterior political motives.
In the wake of new Commandments of God Almighty available in Islam; to live by the old rejected myths is no service to God. It is uncivilised and being arrogant.
--------------------------------------
Love for all, Hatred for None
Very interesting to see how the three-headed serpent that is destroying the west has reacted to this film:
1. The Marxists who are determined to prevent any criticism of Islam, an evil ideology the marxists have imported en-masse into the west;
2. The Global Capitalists - e.g. Unilever - who are putting their greed for profits before the rights and security of their own people and nation and of course
3. The Muslims who just cannot bear to have the spotlight of truth directed at their evil death cult.
All this hysteria before the film has even been seen. Mr Wilders has played a very clever game here, he'll trump the lot of them when his film airs on the web and I for one cannot wait.
"The Message of Islam was being maligned and degraded in the west"
Golly gee, A Khokar. Sorry to malign the message of Islam, and all, but you see, some of us don't speak Arabic, and translations of the Qur'an are not reliable. We're told this, all the time.
Since I don't speak Arabic, it's obviously Allah's will that I will die, as I am unable to read, for myself, the only True Qur'an, in its original heaven-inspired holy language.
Fortunately, Jesus has other plans, for me.
Sneakyzionistcrusader, some site blocking software can be infuriating. I used to work at a place where information on plumbing and sewage equipment was blocked for the same reason. I was once blocked from opening a pdf document that discussed pipe sleeves because the word penetration was used.
Posted by: Pelayo
Pelayo yes I hear ya...the way these filters work is definately annoying, even banners on a site can invoke the filter.
Thanks for the link, both of them ! (heh joking)
Skevin-Thanks for posting that beautiful poem! I love Yevgeny Yevtushenko. :)
Talib-
Regarding your comments about Islam being the fastest-growing religion, even in the west: it is possible to track the numbers of people who convert to Islam, because, generally speaking, they are not threatened with persecution, loss of property, prison, beatings, death or some combination thereof for converting.
It is not possible to accurately track the numbers of people who leave Islam (and we all know why that is), whether they were "born" Muslim or converted to Islam and later realised the reality of the religion and left. (I personally suspect that a large number, if not the majority, of western converts to Islam eventually leave the religion. For converts living in Muslim countries, it is a bit more complicated!) Regardless of location, virtually everyone who leaves Islam simply tries to keep a low profile and to go unnoticed, in the interest of their own safety and that of their families. There is anecdotal evidence that many people are, in fact, leaving Islam.
There are also large numbers of people who may not formally renounce Islam or formally convert to another religion, simply go through the motions because that is what their families and/or societies expect from them. Not to mention the danger that would face them if they officially left Islam.
I thought the Qu'ran was written in Aramaeic, that being the predominant language of the region, then translated to Arabic for mass consumption?
Hence the arguments over hur (with one dot meaning pale skinned virgin) and hur (with two dots meaning white skinned grape)?
USbeast,
May Wilders and all Europeans live to hear their grand children ask "What was 'sharia'?
May ALL children of our beautiful planet ask one day: "What was 'sharia'?
And may the correct answer run somewhat along this line:
"...dear, it was a hideous monstrosity resulting from a most terrible disease that ever ravished mankind - Islam. Thank God it was eradicated many years ago together with leprosy, TB, cancer and syphilis.
And now goodnight sweetheart, pappa is here and should Islam try to sneak into our home pappa will blow off its ugly head with this cute and nice shotgun"
(Ceterum censeo Islam esse delendum.)
"The evil has its destiny to perish and be humiliated when it comes up to confront the truth. It ultimately dies its own death."
The poster above has adequately described the eye opening revelation,and subsequent thirst for inquiry regarding the texts,attitudes,atmospherics and history of subjugation of non-muslim people worldwide,which many shall garner from this film. Kudos.
"to live by the old rejected myths is no service to God."
Rejected by whom may one ask? A particular being certainly once demanded such a rejection, on behalf of the Christ, when asking for homage to be paid toward it during a forty day desert odyssey.(Luke 4) Could this be a reference to those "myths" such as:"Do unto others as you would have them do unto you"(that's unconditional for all btw,kaffir,gentile, along with any self proclaimed chosen folk) or "love thy neighbor as thyself."? Oh those twisted evil cunning dogs,crafting such a loving philosophy to blind all and keep them passive. Sounds like some Jew racket to me.
Perhaps this is one reason many Muslims deny the very death of Christ: the notion of a loving(emphasis on loving)sacrifice. When one is too wrapped in a power based take on the world,such an action(by one of God's "prophets" at that) would be unfathomable. But there it remains,along with a call to all to "take up my yoke for my burden is light."
I take it that 'Khokar' is an Ahmaddiyah Muslim, since they peddle this 'Love for all, Hatred for None' slogan.
"Our God is a Unique God. Some time, He uses even the Satan to do His works. The Message of Islam was being maligned and degraded in the west"
Allow me to rewrite it for you:
Satan is our Allah, Muhammad invention.
Muhammedans follow his criminal conduct, which is to wage jihad against unbelievers in order to rape and take booty, to conquer and subjugate the whole world under the barbaric, abominable legal system called sharia.
The Muhammad worshipping Khokar is uncivilised and arrogant for trying to deceive infidels.
Better?
Posted by sheik yer'mami at March 14, 2008 4:09 PM
'Arrogant dimwits are not expected to pay any heed to the soft soothing words of wisdom.'
Khokar, did you look in a mirror when you wrote that?
Thanks for posting that piece, Hyman Roth.
I do so love to read Jefferson's words in the Declaration of Independence every so often. Such a breath of fresh air.
And I think America's so-called "leaders" should peruse them occasionally, too - and take heed.
I'm not sure if the Wuslim or Muslim posters here get it yet...I'm beginning to think their minds are not conceptually wired for freedom.They waste time while avoiding true discourse.
It's our right as free-speaking people to examine the Qur'an in any light we wish.Wilders view is said to encompass observed violence which he relates to the Qur'an.Another interpretation of the writings might be that Islam is a religion of peace.So which view deserves our consideration, that of Osama bin Laden and Wilders, or the view of president Bush?
Why don't Muslims want this book examined?Why aren't they working on films promoting true, peaceful Islam?This silent majority thing is not working well for them.Instead of attacking Osama for misinterpreting the Qur'an, many Muslims attack any effort by westerners to link their book with observed violence.
Bold Muslims visit JW and hypocritically chastise us as racist haters, while the seat of Muslim Arab supremacy, Saudi Arabia, the seat of all Islam, receives no similar perusal.Saudi Arabia is, of course, known worldwide to be free from intolerant racist haters.
Vee:Jefferson once did something I'd like to see our leaders repeat:
The Qur'an needs to be scrutinized on our US Congressional and public podiums, so informed citizens can determine if the Muslim assault on free people they see daily is truly inspired by fundamental Islamic teachings.
We are better defended when properly educated, and it appears that Muslims fear this greatly, as they should.
They will continue the censorship and intimidation campaigns.
Unfortunately, some westerners will back off now and then.
Sheik Yer'mami
Mirrors always show the true picture; except when you use the concave or convex mirror that they give you the false exaggerated or reduced reflections. I also know that people having the grudge or suffering from envy; and also knowing their defeated position well; some time resort to the route of arrogance and enmity.
May God guide them to right path.
Dera Hawkwatcher and Friends,
Your enemy may not be attacking you that where you stand at present but they attack for your resolve and aim that you may be heading toward in your future.
Likewise all the escalation and hatred being staged and spread against Quran; in the shape of cartoons and the films like ‘Fitna’ etc, are out of sheer envy and deep seeded enmity broiling in the heart of enemy of Quran because they know that this Book is the latest Word of God for our guidance in our future. They want to detest it, resist it and erect hurdles in its ways.
Quran is the word Of God. Any one going against it is in fact waging a war against its creator; our God Almighty. Muslims are simply the bearer of God’s Flag. Having known the mechanic and truth of our life on this planet as revealed in Quran; Muslims are striving hard and doing their best (in the light of teaching of Quran known to them) to please the God and seek His pleasure and blessings.
Quran declares that it is the Book of Guidance for the mankind. There is no restriction; what so ever to learn and comment on it. After all the mega, mega works of researches on Quran by Muslim as well as None- Muslim scholars are called Commentaries; may they be short or long commentaries. ‘Bolgging of Quran’ by Robert Spencer on this website is another example of commentary; (with what ever intent the author may be describing it?)
Quran also announces that this is a book for the people who are righteous and have the ability to think and ponder upon the teachings prescribed by it to attain the nearness to God.
-----------------------------------
Love for all, Hatred for None