Fitzgerald: Boycott? An excellent idea

“Majlis Speaker, Gholam-Ali Haddad-Adel, on Sunday urged the Muslim World to boycott products from any country blaspheming Islam.” -- from this news article

Muslim societies and states are, despite being the recipients of the most fantastic transfer of wealth in human history -- some ten trillion dollars since 1973 alone -- economic failures, dependent still on oil and on the rentier economy of those whose rulers, and the well-connected courtiers of those rulers, have seized large amounts of that national wealth. Two generations have been raised with that vast wealth, and what has come of it? Saudi Arabia itself is still completely dependent on a vast and multifarious army of wage slaves. What art has come, what contributions to science, what signs of cultural life, other than the gold souk, and the jewelry souk, and the every-possible-kind-of-luxury car souk, and the Hediard-and-Fauchon deliveries of Parisian delicacies, and the private 747s, and the Maybachs in every other driveway of every other sheik? What? I keep quoting the observation of a Franco-Armenian architect who spent years in Saudi Arabia: "Money can buy everything, except civilization."

And they will not have to examine either the reasons for their economic failure, and cultural stasis, and penchant for despotism, if they are constantly allowed to find whatever they need -- medical care, access to education -- in the West.

It appears that no matter what funds are spent to conduct the Jihad that, while "non-violent," in the end there is a more dangerous weapon of Jihad, the Money Weapon. It is deployed against us through the funding of mosques, madrasas, campaigns of Da'wa, and pay for the armies of Western hirelings. These are ex-diplomats, ex-CIA agents, journalists, businessmen, even "scholars of Islam" of the MESA-Nostra esposito-feldman apologist type. Some MESA Nostra members may even have had the shamelessness to show up at a dinner of a group named for a great scholar of Islam, Joseph Schacht, the one held in Rm. 7 at the Harvard Faculty Club this past Saturday, as if the noah-feldman sammy-glicks of this world would ever have been given the time of day by the likes of Joseph Schacht.

Every member of the ruling elites all over the Muslim world devoutly wishes to send their children to schools in the West. They recognize the wretched state of "Muslim" education. Even within their countries, they try to send their children to Christian, usually Catholic, schools -- Baghdad College, for example, where Allawi and Chalabi both were students, or Victoria College in Egypt, where the Egyptian-"Palestinian" Said went, or the Catholic school in Pakistan that Bhutto went to. Her father attended a school in pre-partition Bombay, where not only Christians but Jews from the Iraqi diaspora were among his classmates. Imagine that you, and your children, are condemned to the solitary confinement of the Islamic world, that you can no longer travel to the West. Even if, as a ruler or propagandist or an editor at Al Jazeera, you spend all your time denouncing that West and blackening its name, you want to send your children to that West. Even the sinister Sheik Al Qaradawi, apparently the one whose words on Al Jazeera have become a murderous fatwa against Wafa Sultan (who has gone into hiding), has two daughters in school in England. This does not have to be.

Nor does Western medicine, the fruit of Western science and technology, and of ways of thought inimical to Islam (which discourages free inquiry), have to be made available to Muslims who are waging war against the West. Imagine if you were suddenly told that if you didn't change your behavior, you would no longer have access to Western doctors, Western hospitals. Such a threat would get your attention, wouldn't it?

Finally, there are those rich Arabs who regard the West as one big fun-fair, a place to send their black-robed wives and dozens of children shopping in well-guarded herds, while the menfolk enjoy themselves with paid ladies and every conceivable debauch. Les Arabes du Golfe en goguette -- the rich Gulf Arabs on a spree -- is not a pretty sight, as those with their eyes pealed in London or New York or Paris know perfectly well.

Boycott? An excellent idea. No access to education, medical care. And the arms that we sell them? Don't. Or if they are sold, let them be sold with the kind of fabulous markup -- fifty times the price of production -- that the Gulf producers enjoy in selling their oil. And make sure that the computer systems have been cleverly set so that if these airplanes, and other equipment, are ever employed against certain Infidels, in certain directions, if planes for example, pass into certain latitudes and longitudes, then their systems will go haywire, or possibly even self-destruct. And perhaps there are other ways to have their use monitored from afar. Just as there are electronic bracelets for humans, why not something similar for major weapons? There are all kinds of ways to deal with the huge arms buildup in the Muslim states, to ensure that they will not necessarily prove effective against Infidels and nation-states. Surely the arms sent to the Afghani muhajideen by the West, then diverted to other uses once the Soviet Union had left Afghanistan have provided a lesson.

Boycott?

Tax oil, and keep taxing it, as it ought to have been taxed, in steadily rising increments, beginning with the fall of 1973. Have as little to do with the world of Islam as possible, and certainly do nothing to make the lives of Muslims easier with infusions of Western money and Western know-how.

Make the poorer Muslims go to richer Muslims for aid. Let's see how long the Umma sticks together once those poorer Muslims either get what they ask for, and then ask for more, or don't. The amount of resentment will steadily grow, along with the pressure on the rich Arabs who, of course, are willing to spend to fight Infidels, or to give money for other Arabs to fight Infidels, but otherwise have little interest in the wellbeing of other Muslims. The cohesion of the Umma is only as against Infidels. And they certainly care nothing for the well-being of non-Arab Muslims, such as those in Pakistan, who are merely despised, though used -- just as Bin Laden and his fellow Arabs despised, and treated with contempt, but used, the Afghanis.

Boycott? An excellent idea.

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53 Comments

An idea whose time is long overdue. Decades. Where do I sign up?

I'd never thought that I ever would say anything in defense of saudi-arabia, but, development is a result of necessity. The comfortable human that has everything he can point his finger at does not develop or invent. To some extent oil is as much a curse for the oil-rich states as slavery was to the southern states. Cheap labor does not drive development of technology. Excess does not make you think.

Where would all these boycotters come from? I would love to see it happen...but it ain't gonna.

As per boycotts, I read that the Gaza power plant has enough fuel for only two more days, thanks to the recent terrorist attack on the Israeli supply depot. Yet the Israelis will resume shipments soon, Drat!
But I agree Hugh. The UK should kick out Qaradawi's daughters, but they won't.

Muslims boycotting all products from countries not cowering to the insane demands of the Islamic puppet masters?


He has my vote..

What the Muslims won't boycott, the West should embargo.

That includes tourism dollars. Government can't do this but if the people refused to travel to these countries maybe someone would take notice. Many Muslim countries, including oil exporters, derive a large share of their income from Western tourists.

I don't think oil-exporting nations derive much income, relative to what they receive for their oil. Some of them have dreams of a tourist industry -- Libya, for example. But every time a French family is massacred in Mauritania, or Germans and Austrians kidnapped in Algeria, or bombs against Western tourists go off in Morocco (Marrakech) and Tunisia (Djerba), and Australian and other Western merrymakers blown up in Indonesia (Bali), and Western missionaries kidnapped and killed by Muslim guerrillas in the southern Philippines, and in Afghanistan and Iraq all kinds of aid-workers are kidnapped and killed....well, after a point, one realizes that perhaps a Muslim country is not the place for Westerners to choose to visit.

A boycott can be official -- by a government -- or private. There is nothing to stop American universities from declaring they will not enter into any agreements with countries that practice discrimination, against non-Muslims, and against women.

There is nothing to prevent individuals -- you and I -- from not buying clothes "Made in Jordan," not going to Muslim-owned stores or restaurants if we believe that the Total Belief-System of Islam is a threat to our legal and political institutions.

There is nothing to prevent governments all over the Western world from making it very difficult, even impossible, for rich Arabs to come to the West for medical treatment and education or, at the very least, to charge their countries large sums, billions of dollars, for a kind of "license" -- needing annual renewal -- for the privilege of being allowed to do so. We should be wracking our brains, thinking of ways to make their lives more difficult, to express our displeasure, and also to diminish, as best we can, the money they have to fund the Jihad, and while taxing oil and gasoline will dampen demand, and hence the revenues of Muslim oil-states, much more needs to be done to sop up the money they do have, and eventually, seizing their assets in the West, when they refuse to stop funding those mosques, madrasas, campaigns of Da'wa, and armies of Western hirelings, whose ranks grow particularly now that these insidious Shari'a-compliant-instruments are being hawked everywhere, in what is not widely recognized as a deliberate attempt to force Western accommodation to something that. those Westerners may tell themselves, quite incorrectly, is "only" a matter of Western financial institutions offering instruments suitable for Muslims. It is far more than that, as the economist Timur Kuran has noted (google "Timur Kuran" and "Hugh Fitzgerald").

"...not going to Muslim-owned stores or restaurants if we believe that the Total Belief-System of Islam is a threat to our legal and political institutions." --Hugh

I did stop patronizing the nearby BP station/convenience store owned by Muslims from Jordan. How do I know they're from Jordan? A few years ago I asked where they were from. Anyway, I must say I was always treated courteously and referred to as "m'am." However, due to the Big Picture of, as Hugh said, "...the Total Belief System of Islam is a threat to [us]" --I've stopped going. So, I guess that means I am consciously boycotting. In a small way.

darcy,
How do you know the Jordanian is a Muslim? Is there no Christian community left in Jordan?

Talk to people. Get the subject around to whatever it is that might reveal an underlying hostility or hysteria. They may be Muslims-for-identification-purposes-only Muslims; see if you can find out. Or if they are Arab Christians, what kind? Islamochristians, of the hanan-ashrawi kind or, the real thing, the Nonie-Darwish Walid-Shoebat kind of Christians who are not working for Islam?

Hugh,
Look at Egypt. It is steeped in history. What would happen to its economy if tourists stopped coming to see the Pyramids? What about Turkey? Tourism in the oil exporters might be small relative to oil but the loss of business would still hurt. It would hurt those communities that make their living from tourism and it would put more pressure on their central government.
Saudi Arabia derives a lot of money from the hajj, doesn't it? Imagine if Western Muslims refused to make the trip. (One can dream!) Imagine if Saudi Arabia were opened to tourists who weren't of the Muslim faith. There's money in them there tourists. Instead, the Wahhabists are busy destroying anything and everything that doesn't conform to their view of Islam. Iranians dream of tourism. And they should. Theirs is a country with a great heritage and a rich culture that is being destroyed by Islam.
The irony is these countries could be rolling in Western dough, willingly forked over by travelers who felt they would be welcomed and their needs accommodated.
Of course there's no reason governments can't put restrictions on Muslim travel to the West, or maybe there is. How do people who preach the benefits of openness and free trade suddenly tell their constituents that some of their own customers just aren't desirable? Universities that lose the foreign students would go bonkers. As long as business rules the roost, there is little chance of restricting the flow of capital between the West and the Islamic world. In addition, we have the UN and other organizations saying governments have no right to restrict human travel.
And even if we managed to keep all rich Arabs out, we still have the problem of European-born Muslims. They come here on visa waivers. Will we be allowed to prevent Muslim Brits from coming here? Western governments would need to change their laws to have a second requirement for Muslims or modify their treaties regarding visa requirements. I'm not sure it can be done.
It keeps coming back to the individual.

Boycott and embargo is a fantastic idea- but I don't see it happening.

There is a very clear link to Islamo fascism being funded by petro dollars, yet so many Americans won't allow petroleum resource development in Alaska and off shore from The People's Republik of Kalifornia, and Florida. We can't build new, more efficient, refineries. We've gotten into a bad bind as far as energy goes because we have allowed ourselves to be put into that position.

If we can't make the very basic steps necessary in becoming more self reliant as far as energy needs (and I'm not talking about government-subsidized BS like ethanol) then we're sure as heck not going to do anything else. Energy independence; border security; Iran- all serious problems that we're simply ignoring. We don't want to pay the price now, but sooner or later we'll pay dearly.

Don't even travel to those barbaric regressive dangerous Muslim countries.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/7344381.stm

Their world lacks human decency. Don't spend your hard earned money on their lascivious deceitful merchants. They understand nothing and should be isolated from the civilized world. Their clerics of hate expelled. It is not a political issue between the civilized West and barbaric Islam. It is an issue of right and wrong, our freedoms opposed to their slavery. They deserve boycott. Let them live in their 'constitutional' sharia and turn a deaf ear to their cries for help. They deserve nothing.

Has anybody told Hugh that Muslim does not equal Arab? It seems as though his economic analysis is based entirely upon descriptions of Saudi Arabia in the mid-1970s. Hopefully he doesn't truly believe that this is an accurate representation of the entire Muslim world in 2008? --Granted, this is coming from someone who actually is able to imagine finding a shirt that says Made in Jordan, shows the extreme lack of knowledge on economics in the Middle East, although they do exist in Jordan.

He doesn't seem to really understand that most aid (and FDI for that matter) in poorer Islamic countries actually does come from richer Islamic nations, especially within the last few years as poorer Islamic nations (like Egypt and Indonesia) have become fantastic growth and investment opportunities, whether for Westerners or not.

There also seems to be a supreme lack of knowledge in the impact that Islamic capital has had in the West. Remember the financial crises of the 1980s? That was because all the 1973 oil money went back to the United States and the glorious, intelligent, masters of technology and civilization Western bankers lent all the money to other idiots who then defaulted, resulting in the loss of that capital. At which time, we switched to commercial mortgage-backed securities to fund our expansions in the 1990s, which has led to the current situation (extreme debt, nothing backed by hard capital). If you are noticing, none of the Arab states (wealthy or not) are witnessing a large impact, due to the fact that they are primarily based upon hard capital, much of which is now being used to purchase US assets, in turn solidifying the US economy. To take a slightly liberal stance here, we should be thanking them for bailing out some of our largest institutions.

Finally, regarding the whole tourism discussion. Most of these nations don't "dream" of tourism, they already have it. Places such as Morocco, Turkey, and Egypt are already some of the most visited locations in the world. Other nations are catching on, however tourism has its supreme disadvantages (like spreading cross-cultural knowledge and understanding) that I can see why Hugh wants that boycott there as well.

Just doing some thinking...

"Excess does not make you think"
..from post above.

True enough, but simply being a slave to allah does not make you think. You acquire wealth always at the expense of someone else, be they oil-hungry people who are willing to trade their created wealth for something you found below land you conquered (or rather, they found for you), be they dhimmi slaves, or the modern saudi equivalent, who are paid when the masters feel like paying them, but who are still often beaten and raped like the traditional dhimmi. The islamic world, starting with mahomet, has always had a parasitic relationship with the infidel world, starting with the Jewish farmers of Medina. When the dhimmis have all been driven out or murdered, you have nothing left and must export your population to the West, where a whole new world of created wealth is yours, first for the asking, then for the taking.

"If you are noticing, none of the Arab states (wealthy or not) are witnessing a large impact, due to the fact that they are primarily based upon hard capital, much of which is now being used to purchase US assets, in turn solidifying the US economy. To take a slightly liberal stance here, we should be thanking them for bailing out some of our largest institutions." - Posted by: An American

There is no 'gratitude' involved in taking financial control of our assets by Arabs. They are not doing it for us! Their greed is as much at work as is anybody's in seeking control of assets in the West, those assets they cannot produce themselves. Gratitude should be the last thing on our minds.

Where are the produced goods of the Muslim/Arab world? Oil produced from their real estate that we extracted, developed, and learned to use in everything from plastics to running engines? Shirts which can be made in any third world country, and usually is? Automobiles, like the Jaguar? Airplanes? iPods and iPhones? What is Islam producing for the world's economies? They produce virtually nothing, but use our productions for their own socially dysfunctional ends, like shutting internet sites because they are 'offensive' to Islam, or using the same to spread the da'wa propaganda, and in turn demanding we restrict our freedom of speech. Is this what you mean by Islamic capital?

Think again, an American, with a greater sense of reality check.

"Has anybody told Hugh that Muslim does not equal Arab? It seems as though his economic analysis is based entirely upon descriptions of Saudi Arabia in the mid-1970s. Hopefully he doesn't truly believe that this is an accurate representation of the entire Muslim world in 2008? --Granted, this is coming from someone who actually is able to imagine finding a shirt that says Made in Jordan, shows the extreme lack of knowledge on economics in the Middle East, although they do exist in Jordan.

He doesn't seem to really understand that most aid (and FDI for that matter) in poorer Islamic countries actually does come from richer Islamic nations, especially within the last few years as poorer Islamic nations (like Egypt and Indonesia) have become fantastic growth and investment opportunities, whether for Westerners or not."
-- from a posting above

I was unaware that I was unaware that not all Muslims are Arabs, and vice-versa. For now that I have been given to understand that I was so unaware, I have a hard time making sense of my own mention, in thousands of posts, about "islamochristian" Arabs, and why the phenomenon does not appear among Christian Pakistanis or Christian Indoneisans -- that is, among non-Arab Mulims. And I can't figure out why I discussed, at length, the phenomenon of the "islamochristian" and distinguished him from those who, such as Maronites and (especially when they are safely out of Egypt) Copts, who do not exhibit the same desire to please Muslim neighbors and masters as do, for example, so many of the "Palestinian" Christians, to their own great damage.

Why, in what way, is my "economic analysis" (if that is what it is) is based on Saudi in the 1970s? Show me, in detail please, how you arrive at this conclusion.

And what do you mean by describing me as "someone who someone who actually is able to imagine finding a shirt that says Made in Jordan"? I haven't imagined it. I see them, in stores in the United States, where I carefully note the manufacturer, and make another note to myself never to buy anything by that manufacturer again. It is you who are mistaken if you think there are no shirts "Made in Jordan" outside Jordan; Jordan has been given special trade status, in order to reward it for...well, for nothing except for being "our friend" because, because the King and his mediagenic wife are not as obviously hostile to the United States as are the Arabs of Jordan.

And when you say that I am unaware that there is all this "aid" going from rich Muslim states to poor ones, such as Egypt and Indonesia, he then promptly mentions these places as "fantastic growth and investment oppoprtunities." Well, which is it? Does Saudi Arabia, do any of the rich Arabs, give Indonesia outright aid, the way the West does, or do the rich Arabs merely "invest" which is an entirely different thing? And since the United States alone has given Egypt, a country whose government and people are hostile, and necessarily hostile to the extent that they are Muslim (the Copts are another story), to that same United States, about $65 billion dollars, tell me please exactly how much Saudi Arabia or Kuwait or the U.A.E. have given, not as "investment" but as outright aid, to Egypt? I will be interested to study your figures, and your sources for such information.

And while you are at it, tell me all the Muslim recipients of Muslim aid, other than that given for the conduct of war -- i.e., given to Saddam Hussein to fight Iran, or given to the families of "martyrs" among the "Palestinian" Arabs so that other recruits to fight the Lesser Jihad against Israel can be encouraged.

I'll wait right here.

Well, do you really believe that all this boycott thing would do something good for you? That rich Muslims just would gett more pissed off, and send a couple of new suicider-bombers, they'd tell their followers that it's the Infedents who trying to hide things that they've stole from good Muslims. But they would use your Western goods and medcine anyway: fake names and a lot of cash make miracles.

Sorry for posting that comment so many times. I'm dumb with computers sometimes =)

“I did stop patronizing the nearby BP station/convenience store…”


As far as I know, BP is one of the few oil companies that seems to be actively engaged in turning itself into an energy company rather than an oil company.
So as far sustainability and cutting off the money weapon goes, re-fuelling your car at BP probably makes sense.

At least that’s my understanding.


I'll wait right here.

Posted by: Hugh at April 12, 2008 2:34 PM


---

I'm afraid you'd be waiting a very long time, Hugh..

I took about a week off from posting around here, and it sure has been interesting. Everyone’s been feeding the trolls a high-protein diet and making some really strange assertions.

Let’s see. If I am against global jihad, I’m not supposed to be anywhere to the left of Winston Churchill, I’m not allowed to consider Global Warming, and I’m supposed to regard Gnosticism as a heresy. A few days ago, someone named Susan suggested on DW that Muslim misogyny is somehow connected to western tolerance of transgendered people. (And you wonder why I’m the only gay RINO who ever posts here!)

Now comes Darcy. It’s good to not do business with an immigrant if he comes from Jordan. Good Golly, Miss Molly!! As I’ve stated before I will not surrender my native politeness to the likes of Islam. You guys talk the talk about “converting” Muslims, but Queen of Heaven forbid that you should ever treat them as your neighbors. Jeez!

Read this from ReligionofPeace.com, which is not exactly a Muslim apologist site. (Just check their homepage.)

http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/Pages/Statement-on-Muslims.htm

Words to live by.

" due to the fact that they are primarily based upon hard capital, much of which is now being used to purchase US assets, in turn solidifying the US economy. ""

...sounds like America is up for sale...every sale of a property signals lost ground..lost possibly forever..

a slow but definite way to acquired the lands of the Infidel..

America is probably the only country in the world that permits non citizens to buy land..

"...and Western missionaries kidnapped and killed by Muslim guerrillas in the southern Philippines..."
- post by Hugh

Greetings from the Philippines. I'm sure that Hugh did not mean to imply that the Philippines is Muslim. Just to make sure that readers who aren't too familiar with our country don't get the wrong impression; Christians make up the majority of the population (about 80% Catholic, about 10% other Christian denominations,5% Muslim, the remainder belonging to other religions).
It is an unfortunate fact that Muslim guerillas are active in the southern part of the country and have been responsible for numerous kidnappings and murders of Christian missionaries.


I was just doing a little thinking and remembered this...

I bought a bag of pistachio nuts once that was loaded with Iranian worms. I called the distributer and they sent a guy over right away with 15 large bags of potato chips, and some pretzels to trade me for the worms. Seemed like a fair deal to me.
I never bought any pistachio's after that, I gave them up. The only thing worse than finding a Iranian worm in your pistachio is to find half a worm in it...yuk. I already boycott Iranian worms, and don't buy shirts from Jordan, or brass letter openers and daggers from Pakistan, and I don't need any carpets.
Except for oil and gas, which they own but don't produce, there is nothing they have for sale that I want...

Why I love this post: in the time of the upcoming US presidential election, it completely defies every aspect of partisanship we know.

Is Hugh a right-wing Republican? Must be, since he speaks of isloationism with respect to the Muslim world.

Is he a left-wing Democrat? Must be, since he speaks of eliminating our dependence on foreign oil.

Is he a right-winger? Can't be, he wants to tax oil.

Is he a left-winger? Can't be, he doesn't want to give aid to poor little helpless countries like Egypt.

Excellent. If only more people could read and think.

Now comes Darcy. -- skevin

Excuse me, skevin. I've been on this site for a long time. And the BP Jordanians are Muslims, PMK. I've heard them say "inshallah." 'K?

Now comes skevin - maybe you should take another week off. Good Grief, Mr. skevin, Jeez!

Excellent. If only more people could read and think.

Posted by: kamala at April 12, 2008 5:27 PM

Wow, if only you could. But, Islam forbids thinking. And the only reading allowed is the hoax Qur'an. If Mohammedans were allowed to think, they would quickly realize that there is no "allah," a pre-Islamic pagan moon deity carved from basalt with a crescent on "his" chest. Pagan idol. Doesn't exist. What a huge joke played on Muslims by Warlord Mohamet! Eh, kamala? LOL!

I did want to see the Taj before I die. But it's in India. I better get here before India is invaded by another jihad.

What can we do to make all Muslims leave the West in a huff?

The Pope adopting the little 8 year old Muslim girl who wants a divorce, maybe?

Whatever it takes to put them in a snit.

And leave.

Meeca is very roomy, I've heard.

Quoth livefreeordie!:

There is a very clear link to Islamo fascism being funded by petro dollars, yet so many Americans won't allow petroleum resource development in Alaska and off shore from The People's Republik of Kalifornia, and Florida.
And rightly so, because such "development" would be used as an excuse to increase dependence upon oil instead of cutting it.

The USA continues to use over 20 million barrels of oil per day, nearly 7.5 billion per year.  ANWR would yield perhaps 900,000 barrels/day for 20 years.  The highly touted Bakken formation in N. Dakota and Montana might hold 3.65 billion barrels, or a half-million a day for 20 years.  Nothing we do to increase production will help unless we act decisively to cut demand.

We can't build new, more efficient, refineries.
Hogwash.  Oil companies have been upgrading existing refineries for years, even while they bought out competitors and shut down their marginal units.  My co-blogger Robert Rapier at The Oil Drum used to run a refinery in Montana.  This refinery was the most efficient in its class (perhaps in the world), which puts the lie to the claim that there are impediments to such improvements in the USA.
We've gotten into a bad bind as far as energy goes because we have allowed ourselves to be put into that position.
We got ourselves into this bind because we insisted that profligate consumption of cheap fuel was our right, and voted for pols who would make sure the fix was always there.  Fuel taxes were "communist stuff", small efficient cars and electrics were "un-American".

Regular is about $3.40/gallon, but my next-door neighbor wants to buy a Chevy Avalanche.  We won't fix this problem until we view the people who race around in guzzling cars as little short of traitors, and rednecks hang their gun racks in Priuses with bumper stickers declaring attitudes like this:

HEY OPEC! .!..

Darcy - “I did stop patronizing the nearby BP station/convenience store…”

As far as I know, BP is one of the few stations that do not import Middle East oil. I have made it a point to only use them. I have also made it a point to tell all my friends that they shouldn't use Middle eastern oil. I still don't quite understand when I see Americans buying gas at Citgo. Why give so much money to people who hate us?

The best way to boycott any Middle Eastern country is to simply not buy their oil. Tell your friends.

That said, I think there is a difference between giving oil money to corrupt governments and to individuals who are trying to trade goods and services. I think we should encourage non-government trade as generally capitalism leads to more freedom.

===

Posted previously...

Here are some large companies that DO NOT import Middle Eastern oil:

Sunoco................0 barrels
Conoco................0 barrels
Sinclair..............0 barrels
BP/Phillips..... .....0 barrels
Hess................. 0 barrels
ARC0. ................0 barrels

Also: Pilot, Flying J, Love's, RaceTrac, Valero

These companies import Middle Eastern oil:

Shell.................. 205,742,000 barrels
Chevron/Texaco..........144,332,000 barrels
Exxon /Mobil............130,082,000 barrels
Marathon/Speedway.......117,740,000 barrels
Amoco....................62,231,000 barrels

Citgo Gas comes from South America, from a Dictator who hates Americans.

We won't fix this problem until we view the people who race around in guzzling cars as little short of traitors, and rednecks hang their gun racks in Priuses with bumper stickers declaring attitudes like this:

HEY OPEC! .!.. - Posted by: Engineer-Poet

I think this is brilliant! Have our redblooded rednecks drive around in hybrids with their gun racks, and a big middle finger raise up for OPEC. Cool! :) I'd become a redneck myself!

Well, madijihadi, where do you get your info from? Because BP IS heavily involved in the Middle East, and certainly does get oil from that region. So, when you go to BP, you are definitely pumping ME oil. Sorry to burst your BP bubble.

Just saw on the Dept. of Energy Statistics that 24% of BP's oil comes from the ME (2003). In 2006, BP got 203,000 barrels of oil daily from the ME (check BP's website).

So, you see, you are very uninformed. Also, you shouldn't confuse "oil" and "gasoline." They are two different things.

Also, Citgo gets oil from the ME, too, and other sources as well.

Now wait a minute folks. Having been involved, some time back, in oil importation, and having been involved in refining process units, there is a good bit of information going on here about which companies use what oil and/or gasoline.

1. Refineries are built to handle certain types of crude oil. I am mostly familiar with those on the U.S. Gulf Coast. These are able to handle the very heavy crude oil from Indonesia, Mexico, and Venezuela. The use other crudes as well. These refineries also handle crudes with high sulfur content such as those from Alaska. There are many other products other than lubricating oil, diesel, and gasoline that come from a modern refinery.

2. When crude oil comes into the U.S. from abroad via ship it may be produced in the field by one company, sold to another when it goes on board a ship and traded between companies numerous times before it gets to the U.S.

3. Crude oil mostly enters the U.S. from ship into pipeline terminals. Sometimes they are operated by a nearby refinery, sometimes not.

4. When oil is refined into its various products at a crude oil refinery it then is sold to distributors. From there it goes to gas stations. A BP station may have gasoline from a nearby Exxon refinery, and Shell from Chevron, etc, etc, etc...

There are many sources of information at the Department of Energy and also from some of the major oil companies themselves.

The import amounts and percentages I have seen in this are completely erroneous and in complete conflict with public statistics.

duh_swami - I beg to differ.

I purchased one fine blade at a Turkish bazaar in Israel. It was made by Andujar, in Spain.
Beautiful high-carbon steel, a wide spine, and superb craftmanship for a non-military blade.

That blade would be my first choice if "push came to shove" (ok - my second choice). ;-)

(there are exceptions, but only when they rule)

Tansstaafl

From a lurker (who by the way appreciates the content of your posts)...as to the Taj Mahal, the Mogul who "built" it afterwards had the right hand cut off of every craftsman who participated..why?..so it could never be reduplicated..no, I don't have the immediate reference at hand (no pun intended)though it seemed very authoritative when I saw it a few years ago..I'll look it up myself later if you don't beat me to it...kindest regards NoDak

Nothing we do to increase production will help unless we act decisively to cut demand.

People have been making fun of me for years -- until about this year -- for driving a hybrid. My car is a Honda Insight. I spent $228 on gas. Last year. For the entire year. And I drove more than usual because I was going back and forth from the beach in Los Angeles to Silverlake twice a week to care for a sick friend.

It's a pity Detroit responded to the oil crisis in the 70's by building pieces of crap and they have failed to innovate at all in the years since. I'm from Detroit, and I'd love to buy American, but my car came out in around 2000, and the manual version gets up to 100mpg. Mine gets about 60 mpg if there's no traffic on the highway, 45 or so in the city in traffic.

My hat's off to you, Amy.  You're doing far better than I am.

In my defense, when I last needed a new car (2004), Priuses weren't staying on the lot long enough to even find one to sit in.  The Insight had reliability issues and was too small for a primary car.  I bought a VW TDI, and haven't regretted it yet.  If I didn't push it, I could get from Michigan to LA on less than $350 in fuel even at today's diesel prices.

I've worked for Detroit automakers; I too would have preferred to buy US.  But when the marketing honchos refuse to give me anything that fits my needs, Germany or Japan will get my money.  That's capitalism.

At least boycotting CITGO is a no-brainer.

Just a little OT parting shot. Last night, Turner Classic Movies broadcasted Charlton Heston’s classic, Khartoum. It’s always been one of my faves. When I see the term “Mahdi”, I ever have an image of Larry Olivier pointing with his [left?] pinkie at the gap between his teeth to prove that he is “the expected one.” Gordon, as portrayed by Heston is a model for western politeness in the face of Islam. Although sometimes patronizing, he is always decent and fair. Of course, he gets a spear though his chest for his efforts, but that’s not the ummmmmm…...point.

Also OT, for any other NYC gay male lurkers on the list, the next habibi is on Friday April 25th at the Eagle from 10:00 pm till 4:00 am. http://www.myspace.com/nychabibi and http://www.izmix.com.

Be there, Aloha.

Boycott the religion of peace (GWBush), a religion ahead of its time (TBlair)??? Getting ahead of ourselves here...

First we should boycott delivery of luxury goods. That's sure to rattle some leaders.

Then, of course, we need to kick the oil habit. That'll give us our indepence back. Nuclear power and all other technologies, now.

Some who call themselves "conservatives" and are knee-jerk supporters of the Administration, have continued to defend the squandering of resources in Iraq, and have failed to consider the appropriate goal -- weakening the Camp of Islam -- and the obvious (in Iraq) means, through ceasing to work to end the sectarian and ethnic fissures that, in fact, work to the advantage of Infidels.

In the same way, one can see that some who call themselves "liberals" or "environmentalists" are knee-jerk opponents of nuclear energy, and will keep opposing its large-scale use, when there is no way -- none -- to reduce in time the use of fossil fuels without massive building of nuclear plants by Western governments, including our own.

The word "nuclear" scares people. They are confused. They are poorly informed. They think that if they keep repeating the words "solar and wind energy" and are extra-enthusiastic, that will do the trick. It won't. It won't be enough. I wish it were. But it won't.

It would seem absurd to impede the development of any energy asset the Country possesses or can be developed.

The applied use of Crude Oil has provided a great deal of benefit to Mankind. Especially a freedom of movement unparalleled in History. You should resist having that freedom taken away from you by those who wish to make you feel guilty for it.

The Modern Electronic World does not compute with lower energy consumption. Efficiency and waste can be addressed under the constraints of increasing demand. And that is about all that can be expected to happen.

Somebody in the World, is going to buy the Oil available irregardless if we do or not. The best we could expect by boycotting various Foreign sources is to increase the demand for Crude products sourced from Domestic supplies. Increasing the pressure on the Government to allow further development of our own assets.

The Government should be doing it anyway out of pure National Security reasons.

One needs to address the huge capitol investment that would be necessary to convert the Infrastructure to an alternative.

When Science can replace the powering of Autos Boats, 4-Wheelers, Ski jets, Lawn Mowers, Chain Saws, Boats, Planes, Trains.... without oil products, then I think we will not have an Oil Problem anymore.

Hugh writes:

one can see that some who call themselves "liberals" or "environmentalists" are knee-jerk opponents of nuclear energy, and will keep opposing its large-scale use...
And they will be largely toothless henceforth.  The regulatory regime has been upended, with a one-stop construction and operation permit system.  Advances such as toroidal fuel pellets (tubular instead of solid cylinders) create better heat transfer from fuel to coolant and will allow existing reactors to be up-rated, perhaps by as much as 50%.  The first Gen III reactor in the US won't go critical until 2015-2016, but we'll see increases in nuclear generation even before that.
The word "nuclear" scares people. They are confused. They are poorly informed.
The re-naming of "nuclear magnetic resonance" to MRI (magnetic resonance imaging) was all about public paranoia.  But this is changing with a vengeance; the success of France, with 78% of its electricity coming from nuclear, is all over the popular press.  People see the options more clearly, and that nuclear is one of the better ones.
They think that if they keep repeating the words "solar and wind energy" and are extra-enthusiastic, that will do the trick.
Don't discount these either.  The flows are diffuse, but the solar energy falling on US roofs and pavement could meet 100% of energy consumption and total US electric consumption could be supplied by wind from just 4 states (the Dakotas, Texas and Kansas).  The technological and planning cycles are short; wind farms can go from signature to switch-on in 18 months.  Wind power passed 0.6% of US generation in 2006, and the added 5200+ megawatts of generators in 2007 probably pushed this past the 1% barrier.  Wind is growing at a compounded rate of roughly 40%/year.

Some solar technologies are even being manufactured for about $1/watt; when production gets big enough to drive the price down, it's going to change the rules of the game yet again.  Don't count any of it out.

I should mention that there is a missing link here:  the link between electric energy (the sole product of nuclear, wind and solar PV) and vehicles.  If we cannot get energy from steam (or wind) turbine to road wheels, so far as displacement of oil is concerned that energy might as well not exist.  The best we could do is free up some natural gas to be used in CNG vehicles.

If we want to become independent of OPEC in particular and imported oil in general, we are going to have to convey most of our transport energy to vehicles as electricity, not liquids.  This means turning Detroit (and its obsession with V8 engines) on its head.  Had Franklin D. Roosevelt been in the White House on 9/11 instead of G.W. Bush, things would have been radically different:  instead of a guzzler tax-break and a push to "go out and BUY", we'd have had a declaration of war and an end to the production of status-symbol "light trucks" powered by petroleum.  No more Avalanches and Dodge Rams.  No more Explorers, Expeditions and Tundras.  And no more Hummers!  Owners should have been given a deadline after which the existing vehicles could no longer be registered for use on public highways, with special-use exemptions for businesses like farming.

Detroit should have been told "You can build anything you want, so long as it consumes less than 2.5 ounces of gasoline-equivalent per mile; electricity doesn't count."  Companies like Firefly Energy, taking the slow route with battery technologies, would have suddenly had a market in front of them which could put them in the Fortune 500.

The technologies are there; some of them have been there for years.  What we have not had is the pressure from policy and markets to get these technologies into vehicles on showroom floors.  G.W. Bush has squandered 8 years, thousands killed and tens of thousands maimed, and over a trillion dollars trying to fix things the wrong way (or maybe just put the fix in for his oil-man buddies).  It's time to change that.

FABULOUS IDEA!

We have electric trains, and they work pretty reliably. Why can't we have electric cars, continuously powered by conductor systems either mounted on the road surface, or on overhead gantries? Driving itself could become obsolete, you could use those conductors to carry signals as well as power, and routing of traffic could be made fully automatic. You get in your car, enter a destination on the console, and drive to the local terminus on battery power to join the conveyor system.

Range would no longer be limited by battery capacity. Low emissions, reduced accidents, reduced noise, and no-one can lose control of his car because he isn't in control of it in the first place. A computer is. We could build parallel redundancy into it so that when one stretch is down for maintenance, the system automatically diverts traffic around it. Same for the power grid that supplies it.

Businesses could invest in having their own termini installed, to automate transport of their finished goods. Same for the postal services. Public transport would run on the same lines, using company owned "cars", where you get in, swipe your credit card through a scanner, and enter your destination.

It's not beyond the wit of man. It just needs willpower, confidence and committment.
If we didn't already have cars,freeways, railways, and aircraft, we would be coming up with all sorts of reasons why they could never be feasible. But we need to find ways of detaching our transport infrastructure from the tyranny of the individual combustion engine, and electricity is the great common currency of energy distribution.

Marts

Greetings to the Philippines from an old Kearsarge hand (Subic Bay). Also a little known fact is that your countrymen are some of our best friends. Long live the Philippines!

A few notes on Monty's post:


  • Electric trains work because the vehicles are standardized and the tracks serve as a return path for current.  Road vehicles would have neither of these advantages, and you don't want to put up with the expense and losses of non-contact systems.  If you need the advantage, the way to go is probably dual-mode vehicles, putting the vehicle on rails instead of trying to make the road behave like rails.

  • Computers aren't a panacea.  A computer with buggy code, faulty sensor inputs or an unforeseen circumstance outside its specifications can be just as dangerous as a human.

  • Plug-in hybrid electrics can reduce fuel requirements by as much as 80%, and we can manage the other 20% in a number of ways.  Electric propulsion also deals with pollution and noise and can help manage the electrical grid via utility-controlled chargers.

  • We don't want to start with any scheme which requires new infrastructure to succeed.  This begins with a chicken/egg problem, guaranteeing a slow start; it also requires that competing concepts be foreclosed (can't build trial infrastructure for all of them).  This rules out hydrogen fuels, special rail systems for cars, and anything else that isn't compatable with what's already on the road.  We've already got an electric grid, so that's the path of least resistance; we have to start moving too fast to wait for anything else.  We already have a rail system, so expanding it and shifting traffic to it is also on the short list.

marts

seconding pismopal.

Welcome to Robert Spencer's Hedge School for the Counter-Jihad; virtual coffee house, tavern/ saloon/ club [ladies welcome]/ tactics room and war bunker.

Rest assured that the folks here know all about the jihad in the southern Philippines, and are well aware that the majority of Filipinos are Christian. We have had other Filipino visitors to jihadwatch - doubtless we have many more lurkers who are content to sip their beer or their coffee in the shadows in the corner, listening to the conversation and taking notes.

Do please come back regularly and keep us up to date on any stories from the Philippines front of the Third Jihad, that may not make it into the US, UK, European or Australian mass media.

I have a Filipina sister-in-law whom I dearly love - she is just like the Woman of Valor in Proverbs 31. Many, many Euro-Australians - like me - are linked to the Philippines by marriage. There are many Aboriginal Australians who have Filipino connections, due to marriages with Filipinos who migrated here in the 19th century and early 20th, working as pearl divers, sailors and so on.

It is my hope that the Australian government will strengthen ties with the Philippines (as also with Timor Lorosae, Singapore, Papua-New Guinea, Thailand and India) rather than wasting time and money on dangerous liaisons with Malaysia and Indonesia. Military and economic aid from Australia would do much more good in the Philippines than in Indonesia!

PS - I *think* someone has done a Tagalog version of 'Fitna'.







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