An update on this story. "Judge declares mistrial in 'Liberty City 7' terrorism case," from CNN:
MIAMI, Florida (CNN) -- A judge has declared a mistrial in the retrial of six men accused of plotting terrorist acts with al Qaeda.
The decision comes after 13 days of deliberation and marks the second time government prosecutors have failed to convince a jury that the six defendants were guilty of terror-related charges.
It is unclear whether the government will pursue a third trial against the defendants.
The first trial ended in a mistrial last December after nine days of deliberations left a jury hopelessly deadlocked on the six defendants. A seventh was acquitted.
The defendants are known as the "Liberty City 7" because authorities say the men operated out of a warehouse in Miami's Liberty City housing project.
After their arrests in June 2006, federal officials said the homegrown terror plot may have included as its possible targets the 110-story Sears Tower in Chicago -- the tallest building in North America -- as well as the FBI's Miami offices and other sites
If the gov failed to convict on two tries, it probably won't try a third unless it can bolster it's evidence. So the question is, will these guys be a threat in the future? Will they be monitored?
I hope so because it seems that once a terrorist, always a terrorist. It's not likely these leopards have changed any spots...
All it takes is one Muslim or one lefty truther in the jury, and there goes the neighborhood..
Allahu akbar!
I guess the video tapes showing them plotting American deaths and praising Osama Bin-Laden were not good enough...I suppose we will have to wait to try and identify them from the fingers we find at some future blast site..
I have no problems with a mistrial, if there is honest doubt as to their guilt, and since I wasn't present to hear the evidence against these men, I really can't judge the honesty of the jury's verdict.
However, it would be interesting to know something about the Jurors that hung the jury. were they Muslims? Do they belong to an Afro-centric, Jeremiah Wright style, church?
Tell me that, and I think I can make a fairly accurate judgment about the jury's honesty.
Unfortunately, it's doubtful our politically correct judicial system would release that kind of information about jurors, for fear it might inflame public opinion against religious and racial minorities. Better that a terrorst walks free than offend anyone, and better that we pretend there's no potential problem with Muslim jurors judging a case like this, than to face up to the danger Muslims jurors pose when prosecuting Muslim terrorists.
When the Government has only peoples fear of the boogy man-terrorists to bring to court and no hard facts or evidence, this will always be the result.
This tactic might have worked some years ago, like when the Administration had most Americans convinced that Saddam Hussein was behind 9-11, and in fact they did get convictions that way in Buffalo N.Y., but was later over turned by the Courts, those poor bastards where only convicted because they where Muslims and not because they committed a crime.
I believe Americans are not stupid and are tired of this tactic by our Government to try and convince them that all Muslims are terrorists.
It's pretty obvious why there was a mistrial. Most of the jurors are of the same clothe that composes Rev. Wright's "hate America" church, and the Muslim terrorists were of the Nation of Islam sort, even if not official members. In other words they are a bunch of racists --majority of the jury and suspects all. You're never going to get a conviction in that climate.
-Max
www.bravenewsworld.blogspot.com
I tend to agree with Sheik yer'mami. Defense attorneys spend countless hours studying how to select a jury and often will "bargain" with the prosecution team to get a more "fair and representative" jury that is often biased.
Hey Spencer,
Why don't you just get out of your box and give other people a chance to talk to you and to prove to you that what your parents taught you growing up is all ARTIFICIAL facts about Islam and muslims! Instead of working full time on your site and on your books to attack Islam and muslims, come out and let the true muslims talk to you and debate you whenever you want. I would like to offer you an opportunity to visit us on this site: www.aicp.org, send us an email and request a debate or a conversation with one of our muslim teachers to meet with so we can sit down and talk. Get out of the box and stop fooling yourself and your mis guided followers. Islam is not going to lose a thing because of your books and articles, you are the losing one at the end because Islam is the only true religion and I'm sure you know that some how but just afraid to admit it to yourself. You are welcome to sit with us and show us what you got. We are very peaceful, moderate people who have been debating people peacefully for over 30 years and we do not have a problem talking to another misguided person. Again the site is: www.aicp.org
Ronlak:
I believe most muslims are peaceful. Please focus your energy against the extremists!!! Not Robert Spencer... I don't think he is responsible for any deaths!!! Can you say the same about muslims? Of course not.
"When the Government has only peoples fear of the boogy man-terrorists to bring to court and no hard facts or evidence, this will always be the result."
Posted by Max Publius
Ummm. How about self made videos of the "defendants" saying they planned the act and hoped to kill Americans? Just what would you consider to be hard evidence? Geez Max, you set the bar pretty high.
Stupid jurors encouraging jihadis everywhere.
Allahu nutbars.
Sorry Max... I meant to say "sailingwindward".
My apologies.
Our very own Justice Buongiorno who conducts the trial against the Nacer Benbrika terrorist crew here downunder made sure that nobody who knows the faintest thing about Islam was elected for the Jury.
Does that mean everybody who was once burgled cannot participate in a trial against a burglar? Does that mean anyone who was once molested or raped cannot sit on the jury against a child molester?
Tell me: How idiotic is that?
The more divided our Western countriues become.. the more moFoes move in.. the more mistrials and acquittals we are going to see in terrorist and "honor" killing and other moFoe-related cases..
and.. sailingwindward.. please keep sailing on.. I'd hate to be sailing downwind from you.. you smell like a RAT already..
Dang it Spencer!
After reading the post by ronlak, I see how you’ve been deceiving me and other kuffars like me. It’s not the thousands of murderous events worldwide (that I read about daily with my own eyes) in the name of allah that have me thinking this way… it’s YOU! … you and your Zionist black magic arts. Thank you ronlak for awakening me from this dreaded nightmare called islam. Oh, wait… it's still there!
If you are really interested in what the misunderstanders of your “religion” believe and do, please start with a visit this site (and there are many others, sad to say). http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/
You are speaking to (and trying to convince) the wrong crowd. Start with your fellow "believers".
And this is why the lefties want the gitmo prisoners given a civil trial - to waste our money and let the goons out in our country! About 400 have already been let loose and all they do is wind up fighting our soldiers again.
When do lefties wake up? I suppose when the sword is at their own necks.
"When do lefties wake up? I suppose when the sword is at their own necks.
Posted by: R_not "
Nah, they will just look up and say "I love you man"..
The unanimous-jury verdict system has become an albatross around the neck of justice in America. A super-majority of 9-3 or 8-4 should be sufficient to convict or acquit. As it is, one juror with an agenda can thwart the dispensation of justice.
only in America can the criminals make a laughing stock of the judicial system and walk away ...I wonder if some of the jurors belonged to the "Don't snitch " mentality...
"...ARTIFICIAL facts about Islam and muslims! ,," sez he.
I can read too, and the comments RS makes generally come straight from the Qur'an...When I look at this evil book, the words are just as reported on precisely in the book where he said they would be...then I listen (I can hear too) to the Islamic clerics spewing their venom, they are quoting straight from the Qur'an, using its words to promise death and I watch the various Islamic warlords make their speeches and they repeat the same words. I watch them on TV (I can see too), I see the hate in their eyes, I can see the rows of marching future martyrs wearing their white (sometimes) or black (sometimes) suits with the suicide belts strapped on, carrying automatic weapons and doing the Nazi style Goosestep...I watch their videos, many showing mushroom clouds and scenes of exploding vehicles and of the ground littered with bodies..and through the video they promise death, more death, and even their death to insure your death...
all these things and more simply are not artificial..
Are Ahmadinejads comments fake, or Nasrallahs, or Al-Sadrs, or Bin_Ladins, or Al-Zawahiris, or the Afghan and Pakinstani warlords, or the Somali, the INdonesian, or the Muslims flooding into Indias words fake? Are the Palestinian, Egyptian, or Sudenese Muslims words and actions fake? How about the Muslims who have blown up trains and buses in UK, Spain, Italy, France, Lebanon, Iraq, Algeria? Are their actions and words Fake or Artificial?
THe Common denominator is Islam...call yourself peaceful but I will reserve judgement.
Hey ronlak
I for one would lose faith in RS if he was so incautious as to sit down with a group of muslims that he doesn't know to discuss ANYTHING. Discussing your religion to what end? You never refute what he says anyway..it's just endless tail chasing. None of your most articulate apologists have been able to refute his words so what makes you think that you can?
You may be peaceful but I would no more sit down with a group of you that I hadn't searched first than I would swim with a shark.
This result confirms to me the wrongheadedness of using the civilian courts in this war of terror against the west. It is the reason why we did not try german or japanese soldiers in ww2, but set them in pow camps until the end of the war.
ronlak, I just received a letter from one of your co-religionists, he seems to think Islam is not so peacfeul after all:
AA | amaher@hamail.com | IP: 203.97.57.14
I am Muslim and have seen the movie. It did not bother me. I don’t think it has much credibility. It might be a test of freedom of speach as yuo guys are thinking. But it was clear the quotations and clips are faked.
(of course I asked the troll what was faked, the hatespeeches or the jets crashinginto the WTC, but as usual with the trolls, you never get an answer...)
I am posting this to adress the irony of intolerance of people of freedom of speach not being able to hear different openion and asking ahlam to find another forum to post at!!
Islam is not the religion of peace. Never claimed so. Islam is the religion of peace and war. it is the religion of life and hearafter. It is our religion and we don’t care what you think..you are free to choose your fate. God created you free. and gave you thins freedo of choise. Try to fing another religion from time to time to test your freedom.
www.aicp.org = An Islamic Con Panel
Ronlak,
Why challenge Robert Spencer, or any other critic of Islam to a debate?
Their criticism is based entirely on the teachings of the Koran, Ahadieth, and the various schools of Islamic theology.
Your argument isn't with Robert Spencer, it's with your own religion.
If you think that Mr. Spencer is defaming Islam by misinterpreting Islamic scriptures and teachings, perhaps you should consider the thousandts of terrorist that died screaming "Allah Akbar".
If you want to argue with someone about misrepresenting Islamic scripture, aren't they the ones you should be challenging? Arent they the ones that are defaming Islam.
Mr. Spencer is only passing on to us what these killers are saying to justify their acts of terror, and then pointing out those scriptures and teaching used by terrorist to justify themselves.
If I were you, a moderate, peaceful, Muslim, I would be careful not to get into a debate with a knowledgeable Jihadist. You'll lose. Islamic scripture will be on his side.
Lawyers surely are in it only for the money.
http://familysecuritymatters.org/terrorism.php?id=1387239
Welcome to ‘Lawfare’ - A New Type of Jihad
Brooke Goldstein
The Islamist movement has two wings – one violent and one lawful, which can operate apart but often reinforce each other. While the violent arm attempts to silence speech by burning cars when cartoons of Mohammed are published in Denmark, the lawful arm is skillfully maneuvering within Western legal systems, both here and abroad.
Ronlak.
So you say islam is the only true religion.
Do you really want to put all your faith on ONE mans utterings 1400 years ago. ONE man, thats it. Dont be so shure my friend that islam is the only true religion. You are being deceived by the best of deceivers.
"You are being deceived by the best of deceivers."
Posted by: SonofIsaac
So true, SonofIsaac. Muhammad has perpetrated one of the biggest hoaxes on humanity known to man. Muhammad was an evil deceiver, and all anyone has to do is study the records of his life to know that this is true.
Unavoidable it seems since a person must be tried by a jury of their peers.
Does that mean that at least one muslim must be on the jury?
If so, forget about convictions. The courts are the battleground and the REAL legislative bodies these days.
The west is finished and has successfully defeated itself; islam is only helping it in that regard.
Guys,
Don't waist your breath arguing with people like Ronlak, he like most Muslim, is brainwashed Islamist and nothing that you can add to the overwhelming proof that Islam is a terrorism ideology and not a theology is going to make him or his likes change their minds.
They are stuborn, stuborn and very stuborn. You can proof to them that cotton is white and they will resort to a verse in the Koran that tells Islam and only Islam that cotton is black.
Never argue with brainwashed Islamists they are hopelessly stuborn.
Guys,
Don't waist your breath arguing with people like Ronlak, he like most Muslim, is brainwashed Islamist and nothing that you can add to the overwhelming proof that Islam is a terrorism ideology and not a theology is going to make him or his likes change their minds.
They are stuborn, stuborn and very stuborn. You can proof to them that cotton is white and they will resort to a verse in the Koran that tells Islam and only Islam that cotton is black.
Never argue with brainwashed Islamists they are hopelessly stuborn.
So true, SonofIsaac. Muhammad has perpetrated one of the biggest hoaxes on humanity known to man. Muhammad was an evil deceiver, and all anyone has to do is study the records of his life to know that this is true.
Posted by: champ at April 17, 2008 3:51 AM
champ, I'd say it's the BIGGEST hoax of all time. And Mo is the con man of con men.
Concerning our troll "ronlak," - just the way he addressed RS was disrespectful ("Hey Spencer"), and the rest of his tirade was disrespectful, too, and certainly not "peaceful." ronlak is rude, impertinent, even insolent, and is not worthy of RS's time and attention. Seeing as how RS has not replied to ronlak, I assume he's reached this conclusion, too.
"Language most shows a man. Speak, that I may see thee." --Ben Jonson
One of my favorite quotations.
Didn't Chicago produce Barrack Hussein Obama and Reverend Jeremiah Wright ?
It only takes one to hang a jury and this is a city with a curious segment.
Sorta like a segment or swath of the Dem party. How much did George Soros and the other hedger funders make this last year (how many billions) ? - keep the voters simplified and sheepish.
Deception deception deception.
darcy, now now...
As a loyal Harry Potter fan, I must disagree with your diagnosis of ronlak as a 'troll.' Trolls are BORN the way they are. Muslims are MADE that way.
Don't insult the trolls. They can't help it that they're violent and stupid.
People, on the other hand, can.
BTW, I'm still waiting for Robert to teach me those 'Zionist black arts' that allow him to insert text where there was none beforehand ... I haven't gotten my tax refund check yet. LOL
j/k Robert ... ya know we love ya :)
Thanks for the link, Ronlak. I just spent a few minutes perusing your site. So the most abhorrent sin is apostasy from Islam? Not rape, not murder, not child abuse, but changing one's religion?
http://www.aicp.org/Site/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=86&Itemid=34
Here are some quotes from the article, which is mainly comprised of suras from the Koran, ahadith and quotes from Islamic "scholars." You can read the entire article via the link above.
He who takes for himself a religion other than Islam and dies on that status will be a loser on the Day of Judgment and his eternal abode is Hellfire, where the torture does not cease nor decrease. Allah does not forgive the one who dies non-Muslim, nor will any of his good deeds done in this lifetime be accepted from him. Surat Muhammad, Ayah 34
Those who blasphemed and block away from the ways of Allah and die as blasphemers, Allah shall not forgive them. Surat an Nisa', Ayah 48
Imam an-Nawawiyy defined apostasy as interrupting Islam by an intention or by a blasphemous doing or by a blasphemous saying--whether or not it was said mockingly, out of stubbornness, or out of conviction. He said apostasy is the most abhorrent type of blasphemy. For one to have been Muslim, then to apostate from Islam is the most vulgar of sins. It is a heinous crime and its committer deserves the everlasting torture of Hellfire should he die without repenting from it.
This complies with the saying of the Prophet, sallallahu ^alayhi wa sallam, related by at-Tirmidhiyy: >
At-Tahawiyy said that to attribute to Allah any attribute of the creation--like age or time, body or place, organs or instruments, colors or shapes; or to say Allah has a partner or a child--all are blasphemous sayings. [So much for Christians being protected "People of the Book." Looks like now they are considered to be blasphemers, and therefore, apostates. And we all know what the punishment for apostasy is.]
Many judgments are incurred on the one who apostates from Islam. Some examples are: the apostate's fasting and Dry Purification (Tayammum) are invalid; it is not permissible to eat the meat he slaughters; his wealth not inherited, nor does he inherit; his marriage contract to a Muslim or non-Muslim is not valid. Moreover, the apostate loses all the reward of all the good deeds done prior to his committing apostasy, though all his sins remain.
margheri, I admire you. You actually went to the Islamic troll's site and read the BS contained therein. I couldn't do it. The horror of such evil lies would be too much for me. All of those evil lies for a pagan moon deity that doesn't exist.
margheri, you are brave.
And, such enormous irony when the "losers" are the Mohammedans. No doubt about it.
I notice that "ronlak" hasn't re-appeared. Perhaps he doesn't exist, just like the rock idol he worships.
Darcy-Once I took a look at the site, I actually thought that maybe Rolnak was being ironic in his post-I almost didn't respond to him at all. I doubt that he'll be back, although I imagine that he is checking to see how people respond. I have tried to (informally) debate with Muslims of various nationalities on multiple occasions and it seems to be impossible, as they always end up relying on the fact that something was written in the Koran, or in the ahadith, or stated by a scholar, or name-calling; rather than actually being able to support their point of view in a logical manner. But what can you expect of people who have been conditioned to believe that final result questioning things, or thinking for oneself, is eternal damnation? That is actually one of the things that forced me to change my way of thinking about Islam and Muslims.
I have actually had the idea to form a group in which people visit the sites of various Islamic "charities" operating in Western countries and read over the content, as well as links, in detail, and then inform local newspapers and the local community of the contents.
Darcy-By the way, the rubbish on that site is nothing I haven't seen before. ;)
>>But what can you expect of people who have been conditioned to believe that final result questioning things, or thinking for oneself, is eternal damnation? That is actually one of the things that forced me to change my way of thinking about Islam and Muslims. --margheri
Morning, margheri.
Right. The "no freedom of inquiry" in Islam rules out any kind of logical/critical thinking, so, why bother debating with the Mo'bots?
Hi Darcy. My opinion (for what it's worth! ;) ) is that we should take every chance that we have to confront and debate Muslims-in person, online, on television, etc... First of all, by doing so we can alert others to the reality of Islam. Most people in the west still don't know much about Islam, and seem to consider it to be something along the lines of an exotic form of Christianity. Secondly, the reason that Muslims peddle these lies is that people believe them. Most people believe them. It is up to each of us, individually, to show that we don't believe them! It doesn't matter who we are, or what our occupation is, or who our parents were, or what our level of education is. We all have the right and obligation to educate ourselves and to stand up in defence of our civilisation, history and values. (By the way, I'm speaking of Western civilisation, history and values as a whole.) Robert Spencer and the rest of the JW staff have done a tremendous job, and will no doubt continue to do so, but they aren't going to reach every single person in the world. We all have to do our part, no matter how small.