Pope at Ground Zero to call for terrorists to convert to Christianity

'He [Aref Ali Nayed] said that religious conversion should not be "made into a triumphalist tool for scoring points"..'.

Hmmm. Now, how many times, from Muslim trolls on this very comments floor, and from how many pundits, and in how many boastful statements from Muslim websites and media, have we heard that line about Islam being "the world's fastest growing religion"??

If Muslims are allowed to crow about how many Infidels they think they are 'converting', then surely Christians can express pleasure at the news of Muslims abandoning Islam for Christianity (or even just at the news of Muslims abandoning Islam, period, since it is plainly obvious that people like Ayaan Hirsi Ali are happier as free thinkers than they ever were as Muslims!).

And since those Muslims who have converted to Christianity - people like Bp Patrick Sookhdeo, or Mohammed Hegazy and wife, or Abdul Rahman, or Daniel Shayesteh and wife Mary - are so manifestly full of joy, we Christians will rejoice over them, loud and long; and we will join Pope Benedict XVI in praying most fervently that millions of others (yes, even those now possessed by hatred and violence) will make the same Exodus from Darkness.

"For he [YHWH] hath broken the gates of bronze/
and cut the bars of iron in sunder" - Psalm 107:16.

Prayers not only for a safe trip for B16 to America, but prayers for the sucess of him planting those seeds into the hearts of all for spiritual renwel and conversion to the faith of Christ. This Pope knows to his credit the truth about Islam and is doing the right thing by going to the Ground Zero site.

I predict a riot!!!!!!!!!!

"I have seen many Muslim spokesmen in the West loudly say that they don't have to apologize for the deeds of the terrorists, because the terrorists aren't true Muslims."

Muslims do not hold the patent on that particular form of rationalization. There are very few acts of violence perpetrated by Christians in the name of Christianity in the first place; nevertheless, I have heard the following: "Eric Rudolph was not a true Christian." I have also heard, "Fred Phelps and his followers are not Christians."

I believe that it is a particular quirk of human nature and their religious protectionism and not necessarily something peculiar to Islam. It enables people to ignore a problem and not actually confront it.

"suddenly, the terrorists will turn out to be Muslim after all."

...(yawning)..no doubt..

"He said that religious conversion should not be "made into a triumphalist tool for scoring points"....

...Muslims were proud to boast they had converted a dead man...

Well the Koran commands violence against non-Muslims and the Muslims deny it, but it is there.

Man, Ben16 is such an antidhimmi!

If the previous popoe had been like him, perhaps things wouldn't get as bad as they are, both in the West and in the occupied middle east (occupied by muslims).

I have heard the following: "Eric Rudolph was not a true Christian." I have also heard, "Fred Phelps and his followers are not Christians."
-- from a posting above

Where is the textual authority for Eric Rudolph's attacks? For Fred Phelps? Where are the tens of millions, or hundreds of millions, of Christians eager to explaiin away or justify such behavior?

Symmetrical, equal-opportunity denunciation makes no sense here, just as the ludicrous quoting from Leviticus by Muslim apologists, ignoring the obvious -- that no Jews are smashing the heads of Canaanite children, nor have those texts ever, in the last several thousand years, been a source of vivid inspiration, which is quite different from the Qur'an, which for 1350 years has been taken by Muslims to be the uncreated and immutable and literal Word of God.

dumbledoresarmy,

Well the best kept secret is that besides the 6 million Muslims that are leaving Islam to become Christian is the fact that the Christian faith NOT ISLAM is the true "fastest growing religion" with a boomtime going on in the global south.

How many "WARS" have there been in the name of RELIGION, how many have died for it and are still dying for it every day.
All claiming, they are the real religion.
We have "Miss World" contest, too bad we cannot do the same with a "World Religion" contest, could it be without violence, please, No, these people are so brainwashed and hateful they don't know what normal behaviour is.
May be it is their way of having a good time,
to put your suicide belt on and let the party begin...... BOOOOOOOOOM. Party is over.

If we can figure out how modern Jews can ignore Liviticus, maybe Muslims can figure out how to ignore most of the Quran. I don't believe that there was a statute of limitations on the laws contained in Liviticus. I've tried to find it.

I would expect the Pope, as head of the Catholic church, to call upon all evildoers to repent from their evil ways and embrace Christ.

That's part of the Pope's job, surely?

If we in the West were coherent and rational about the problems presented by Islamic intolerance and supremacism, we would have not only the Pope...but our educators, politicians and other cultural gate-keepers...who would be encouraging mass apostasy from Islam.

Osama bin Laden accused the Pope of trying to provoke "a new crusade" against Islam.

Sigh, if only.

An absolutely brilliant plan by the Pope. By praying for the redemption and conversion of the Islamists at Ground Zero, he is, as was pointed out in another comment, doing his job.

However, by doing so, he will enrage the Muslim world, who will suddenly have no problem associating Islam and terrorism. Or Islam and the mass murder of over 2,000 people at the World Trade Center. This will once again remind American Catholics, and everyone else for that matter, that Islam and terrorism are inexorably linked.

Then the protests will invariably start. Not only will people suddenly be reminded of the link of Islam and the 9/11 tragedy, they will see Muslims behaving violently in the present day, due to a man of peace whose only crime is to pray for them.

It's brilliant on so many levels.

Just another pretext for being angry about something on the part of the saracens

I love this Pope! And I'm not even a Catholic. Surely it's okay for atheists to admire this man.

This is absolutely the most Christian action that Pope Benedict can offer to those who wish to destroy us. And I say that with absolute joy and pride that this Pope is calling for this so publicly and openly.

I have seen prayers answered before and if all Christians, Catholic and non-Catholic can agree to say in their evening prayers, their Sunday services, their Sunday Masses, their rosaries, the prayers for the intercession of the Holy Mother, etc. for the conversion of the Muslims I truly believe that the world can get through this dark time and peace and justice can finally reign.

I ask all who post here at Jihadwatch, please join with Pope Benedict in praying for these conversions.

It's brilliant on so many levels. posted by s
****************************************************
Here's another level: many muslims will see this as a prelude to war - they believe you must call someone to their religion before you kill them.

I love this Pope too. I loved John Paul the great too. Benedict's "Truth and Tolerance" is a must read, even for Protestant's like me. I think and Atheist would find his arguments rational and compelling when it comes to challenging secularist nihilism.

These Pope's have actually caused me to seriously consider converting. The scandal of thousands of Protestant denominations combined with their general timidity in the face of secularism and Islamicism, makes me question whether they really constitute a Church which even Hell could not prevail.

I agree with radical Muslim scholars that the baptism of a former Muslim on Easter is a provocation, however it is a non-violent one which says that we Christians are going to seek and speak the Truth, regardless of whether Muslims wail and gnash their teeth. Rome is showing courage worthy of the apostles. Robert's patient courage and steadfast commitment to the truth is also a witness that I've found compelling.

God Bless Pope Benedict XVI with a safe trip to America and God give him the courage by the power of the Holy Spirit speak the HOLY TRUTH. Amen

I have just heard late this morning from my parish priest that he will help out with other parish priests invited to help give out up to 57,000 Holy Communions at Yankee Stadium next Sunday. He with a small group will go and represent my parish church down in NYC.

James Martel,

May God Bless you and keep you doing your time of discerning out if He is calling you into the RCC. That is my faith and I am happy to be a Catholic. I will keep you in prayer. :-)

GuardianofPeaceandJustice,

I sense that God is calling Christians to do, to pray for the conversion of Muslims to embrace Christ. Will do pray also.

"I love this Pope! And I'm not even a Catholic. Surely it's okay for atheists to admire this man." - ImNoDhimmi

I don't think admiration is about agreement. I think one can always admire a man who knows his job and tries to do it properly, whether as a pilot, plumber, pope or president.
Right now, the West has too many people in prominent positions who seem never to have read their job descriptions, nor to have any qualifications for what they are being paid to do.
Pope Benedict seems to be a steady worker, and I hope he will continue to grind diligently for years to come.
I don't suppose his job description specifies upsetting Sheikh al-Qaradawi, but I think we can put a tick in that box anyway.

Implicit in the Pope's message is that the terrorists cannot find redemption within islam -- not through moderate islam, true islam or reformed islam -- but only by rejecting it. Popes, of course, are fallible, unlike The Decider, who has consistently made quite different pronouncements about islam, such as the following, which was delivered back in 2003:

" According to the teachings of Islam, Ramadan commemorates the revelation of God's word in the Holy Koran to the prophet Mohammed. In this season, Muslims come together to remember their dependence on God, and to show charity to their neighbors. Fasting during Ramadan helps Muslims focus on God's greatness, to grow in virtue, and cultivate compassion toward those who live in poverty and hunger.

"The charity, discipline and sacrifice practiced during Ramadan in America makes America a better, more compassionate country. The family gatherings that break the fast at the end of each day enrich our communities. And the heartfelt prayers offered at this time of year are a blessing in many lives and they're a blessing to our nation."

http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2003/10/20031028-9.html

In truth, bush isn't fit to serve Benedict's eggs in the morning.

This WILL cause outrage - no doubt about it! I will be praying that no harm come to the Pope.

I'm not even Catholic, but I am liking this Pope.

He said that religious conversion should not be "made into a triumphalist tool for scoring points"

This is the muslim mindset. They tend to be triumphalist. In catholicism, triumphalism is against the basis of the faith.

Projection, pure projection.

There's actually a coherent policy by the Vatican, I think. The previous pope offered an olive branch to the Muslims by agreeing to visit a mosque (in Damascus, I believe) and other such overtures. That was in the summer of 2001. Then came 9/11.

The current pope feels that the overtures of peace that JP made were never reciprocated, so he's waiting on some reciprocity, and, since little of it has come, except the letter of 138 clerics last year (more or less inviting him to Islam, by all accounts) he is I guess returning the favour by inviting Muslims to Christianity.

At Ground Zero. Brilliant!

"Pope at Ground Zero to call for terrorists to convert to Christianity".

Just watch the PC leftards ask him not to do this.

By going to Ground Zero and offering prayers not only to remember those who died on 9/11 as well as for praying for the conversion of Muslims to Christian faith but also honoring who are the TRUE MARTYRS, which are those 3,000 people who died on that fateful day.

I feel stupid asking this question,but how do the quotations above by the Pope constitute an exhortation to convert to Christianity?

I am not a catholic either, but the antidhimmi nature of Ben16 is making all Bible believing Christians proud of their heritage, and proud of our superior Western culture.

Yes, Western Judeo-CHristian greco-roman culture is superior to Islam

This week's visit by the Pope presents a perfect opportunity for the best selling authors of the West who are critical of all faith as "childish", "superstitious" and prone to violence.

This entry is a request for those authors.

Regardless of how we feel as individuals about whether or not science has removed the need for a God who created the universe and the life it contains, can we deny that all humans rely to some extent on "beliefs" and "faiths" to make sense of, and operate in, the world around us? Doesn't a rigid, uncompromising stance that viscerally denies any possibility of a God engaging in the same stubborn behavior that so frustrates atheists when considering the faithful?

Doesn't a mature atheism really reduce to agnosticism?

If this is not true, I need not only a complete mathematical proof which penetrates backward in time before the Big Bang, but also a proof that a Supreme Being, or Consciousness, or whatever your comfort zone might require, did not setup the conditions and physical laws we've spent human history unraveling. Otherwise I'm forced to admit I cannot prove, and therefore don't really know, what started our universe in motion.

Observe the Pope and listen to his address, not with aim of deriding him for his religiosity, his clothes or ceremonial style and its trappings, but with a careful ear to his words, his literal guidance for human interaction, and the atmosphere he attempts to convey. Listen to him with the appreciation that despite our differences in opinion he does not promote the idea of killing or enslaving us.

There is little doubt the Pope will be accused of provocation, and that some Muslims will find in his words yet another excuse for moral outrage and violence. Listen to the Pope not as a believer, but as a rational actor. Then ask yourself; are the words "bring Your peace to our violent world: peace in the hearts of all men and women and peace among the nations of the earth" really a call for "a new crusade"? And if they are, doesn't that point to a problem not with the Pope but with those expressing the outrage and that particular virulent strain of hateful religion they represent? If those words are a call for "a new crusade" doesn't that illustrate that the currently popular historical view of the original Crusades as needless, religiously motivated, expansionist violence should be called into question?

Consider using some of your talent, God given or not, to boost our cultural moral and feelings of self worth in the West. I'm not suggesting a promotion of religion, just some recognition that humans and culture will never be perfect, and that the culture we've inherited has shown its ability to improve and grow.

And most of all; express the idea that our culture, even in its present form…no, that's not right, especially in its present form, is worth fighting for. That way we can openly consider any question we want, and do it indefinitely into the future.

Silvester:

Don't feel stupid. You just asked the $64,000 question.

And the answer is a pretty good laugh in itself.

The good father doesn't name any names.

But when the Pope says:

"Turn to Your way of love those whose hearts and minds are consumed with hatred." ...

... there seems to be no doubt in anybody's mind that "Your way of love" refers to Jesus' teachings, and that "those whose hearts and minds are consumed with hatred" refers to mohammedans.

He didn't say so. But everybody is already convinced. Hmmm ... I wonder why. Isn't Islam the religion of peace?

When the Mo's start complaining, I for one am going to laugh myself sick.

Like I said, I like this Pope.

Which day, exactly, and what time, will Benedict XVI stand at Ground Zero?

I would like to know so that I may join with him in prayer at that time. Indeed, I think many in the church might consider spending that entire day in prayer and fasting.

A further note - ever since that 'a common word' letter from the Muslims to the Christians came out, I have done two things.

I have prayed for each of the Christian leaders to whom it was addressed - this means I have begun to learn the names of many of the leaders of the Eastern Churches, those imprisoned within the Islamosphere, and also those (in the Balkans, for example) who suffered under Islam for centuries.

I also present before the LORD, regularly and often, the names of those 138 Islamic 'scholars' who signed off on it.

Atheists and members of other faiths, take note: prayer is not the only thing I am doing. But in my case, prayer keeps me from despairing, as I might well otherwise be tempted to do.

To all who post and are interested in finding out when the Pope makes the different stops, the website for EWTN will be carrying information about the days and times Pope Benedict is stoping at. Here is the URL of the website:

http://www.ewtn.com/

dumbledoresarmy,

I believe Pope Benedict is going to Ground Zero next Sunday morning for the special visit and prayer service at that site. Check the website that I have posted above for futher info.

dumbledoresarmy,

Went to the EWTN site myself and it will be at 9:00 AM live, with an encore at 11:00 AM and the next morning at 1:00 AM for the visit to Ground Zero.

Well that caps it, I'm converting. God Bless Benedict!

There's the difference between Christianity and Islam. One prays for its enemies, the other kills them.

There shouldn't even be a Ground Zero after almost 7 years.

Where the hell are the replacement buildings for the WTC's?

They rebuilt the Pentagon quickly.

What's the problem in NYC?

The Pope should be blessing the restored "Windows on the World" restaurant's food, not standing in a hole in the fabric of New York City and a sore on America's spirit.

Pelayo asks:

"If we can figure out how modern Jews can ignore Liviticus, maybe Muslims can figure out how to ignore most of the Quran. I don't believe that there was a statute of limitations on the laws contained in Liviticus. I've tried to find it."

Aside from the fact that 'modern' Jews do NOT ignore Leviticus, you mean.

There are 3 distinct branches of Judaism currently; Orthodox, Conservative and Reform. If by 'modern' you mean Reform, then fine, they're the equivalent of Liberal Episcopalians, and they ignore pretty much ALL of the Tanakh. (and Jews will now start stoning me for misunderstanding their faith... no, no they won't. But they might remonstrate gently. I'm cool wit' dat.)

What you have to understand is that there are specific laws enumerated in Lev and Deut. Some of those laws are personal in nature, others are communal, and others are universal. There are also some commands that are specific, and some that are general.

By and large, the 'kill, loot, plunder and exterminate' laws are very, very specific; both in time (escape from slavery, or facing extermination themselves), and in place (Jerusalem, or Jericho, or Egypt), and in people (Amalekites, or Philistines, or Egyptians, or Moabites, or Canaanites, or whatever).

The Koran and hadiths, on the other hand, are less... discriminating, shall we say.

If we can figure out how modern Jews can ignore Liviticus, maybe Muslims can figure out how to ignore most of the Quran. I don't believe that there was a statute of limitations on the laws contained in Liviticus. I've tried to find it.

Posted by: Pelayo at April 13, 2008 9:34 AM

Capital punishment was abolished by the Sanhedrin because capital crimes became so rampant that the Torah's justice system no longer served its purpose of instilling the Torah's morality code among the Jewish nation. It no longer served as being corrective for the condemned nor for the living.

The only exception is murderers but even those cases are handled differently than the Torah because, technically, if there is no Beit Hamikdash (Temple in Jerusalem) and no Sanhedrin (High Court of the Nation of Israel), the Torah itself says that capital punishment cannot be applied.

These links might be a bit over the top for most of you due to their often heavy use of Jewish legal terms:

Jewish Encyclopedia: Capital Punishment

Judaism and the Death Penalty; Of Two Minds but One Heart

dumbledoresarmy/

"prayer keeps me from despairing".

Thank-you for that one, tiny, throw away phrase.

I don't necessarily believe EXACTLY as you believe, nor do I necessarily believe EXACTLY as you do in the power of prayer, but I do believe that, all unwittingly perhaps, you summed up one of the essential truths about prayer.

So let me agree with you here. Without saying anything about the validity of prayer - a different conversation which need not be addressed here - you, nonetheless, gave all of us a good reason to keep right on praying: because it helps to keep the despair at bay. You are correct on all three levels. If there is no God there to listen then that doesn't matter for the act of praying and believing still helps us. If there is a God but He's leaving this sorry mess compleately up to us to solve then it still doesn't matter for prayer focused on Him negates despair and clarifies our thoughts. Thirdly, and lastly, if there is a God and He will answer and act in His own way then prayer is efficacious and satisfies both Him and us.

You Sir, no matter which approach to solving the minor problem of Islam which any of us here might take, are quite correct: "prayer keeps me from despairing", as it should keep us all from despair.

Thank-you for that small phrase, that truth,

Oliver.

GuardianofPeaceandJustice:

A while after the 9/11 incident, I was crying out to God asking Him what in the world I could do about this massive problem of terrorism. I reminded Him that in the Word it says He looked for just one person to stand in the gap and pray, and that I was available. No sooner had I asked this in much frustration, with the situation looking larger than life, and I felt the Lord give me strategy: Pray for a revival among the Muslims. Brilliant!!, I replied. Every time I begin to pray for this, I can feel the Lord's presence so strongly on my prayers. It is very exciting to me. Since starting this type of prayer, the doors have opened for me to go into Muslim lands. The last time I went (Dec), an Arab Christian friend gave me a book he thought I'd enjoy. Did I ever!!! It was a book on the Jesus Visions in the Middle East that the Muslims are seeing and coming to the Lord. So, this is key!

God bless and protect this Pope and his trip to America. Last thing we need here is any assination attempt on American soil.

Thank you joeblough,but it's still a wee bit coded,I think!

profitsbeard,

There is rebuilding going on at the first Ground Zero site, or the WTC site for the "Freedom Tower", but it will take a couple of more years for everything to be rebuilt. The year of completion is going to be from what I have found via internet research, 2011. Remember it is 16 city blocks that have to be rebuilt in the process.

This really is the most peculiar story. What the Pope is to offer is a prayer that the minds of the terrorists be turned to "the way of love". This is interpreted by the Telegraph as a call for conversion to Christianity. It isn't. There's no reason, of course, that the Pope should not call on everyone to convert to Christianity: he would just be doing his job. But that isn't what he's saying. It isn't within a million miles of what he's saying. The story is utter, utter crap. How did it get past the editor?

Osama bin Laden accused the Pope of trying to provoke "a new crusade" against Islam.

If the Christian God is phony, then how in the world can the pope saying a prayer hurt anything?

However, if the Christian God is real, you'd better get on your knees and ask for His forgiveness, bin laden, or you'll be in bad trouble!

From a post above: I agree with radical Muslim scholars that the baptism of a former Muslim on Easter is a provocation.

If the Pope didn't do it, then perhaps Allah could have done it himself. From the Qur'an (2:138):

Our religion is) the Baptism of Allah: And who can baptize better than Allah? And it is He Whom we worship.

How would that be for a provocation? LOL!

Folks, the Pope is just doing what Jesus is commanding of Christians, not only to pray for them but for their conversion via repentence and faith.

LIGHTINSHADOWS

I've heard that sentiment after 9/11 from many people and if you are a true Christian who also believes in the beauty, strength, truth and dignity of Western Civilization, Western Tradition and Christian Morality then there are few options available to us.

Personally, I'm a fighter. I will NEVER live under an Islamic regime -- nor my family or my descendants. Ever. I would rather die.

I will fight and resist this movement. But I know that if that great war comes, the streets and rivers of the world will flow with blood and millions and millions of innocents will die. And I know that God doesn't want that.

So what is the alternative for a Christian in this world?

Above all other options -- Prayer.

Pray for the conversion of the Muslims. Pray for the reconversion of Europe to the Faith. Pray for the conversion of those in the Black Market who pray on the weak and the helpless.

Pray. If millions of people are praying for the same intentions, results will happen.

He will hear our prayers.

"Osama bin Laden accused the Pope of trying to provoke "a new crusade" against Islam."

He's got a sense of humour, you have to give him that.

Ian,

...Or better yet, projecting himself onto the Pope.

"I would expect the Pope, as head of the Catholic church, to call upon all evildoers to repent from their evil ways and embrace Christ.

That's part of the Pope's job, surely?"
Posted by: John of South Australia

No doubt B16 will do just that, as it surely is his job. And except for the already faithful, the words will just as surely be ignored by everyone else.

In this clash of religions, Benedict's most immediate power lies not so much in the message of Christian love he brings (this will come later), but rather in the powerful symbolism he carries as the representative of the one thing older than Islam that it has not been able to defeat, despite 1350 years of trying. The sons of Hagar still haven't come to terms with Ishmael not receiving Abraham's blessings, which went instead to Isaac. They are to the sons of Sarah as the ugly stepsisters are to Cinderella.

I hope the Muslims do get pissied over this. The more the world sees them for what they really are, the more the world will wake up. Because truly peace-loving Muslims would WELCOME such a prayer and would in fact join the Pontiff in his prayerful sentiments. People will take notice if Muslims get offended over a simply prayer for peace.

"What's the problem in NYC?"

They are still finding body parts?..

"Turn to Your way of love those whose hearts and minds are consumed with hatred.
"God of understanding, overwhelmed by the magnitude of this tragedy, we seek your light and guidance".

If that's as far as the Pope's prayer goes, there's no reason at all for Moslems to be upset. It doesn't say one word about Islam or Moslems. And since many Islamic spokesmen say the 9-11 attack was actually the work of Mossad, they should be pleased that he is calling for the conversion of the Jews. If there is any Moslem protest, it will merely show that they know the truth: that Islam was the justification for the 9-11 murders, and for millions of others in the last few decades.

A little try at poetry by a non-poet:

The Pope is finally some hope
compared to all the Dhimmi Dopes,
who lead the West.
He is of them all,
surely the very best.

....
It is the thought that counts.

pulsar182 -

I think I read somewhere that they WERE still finding body parts in and around 'ground zero'.

Man, the Vatican was BRILLIANT choosing this Pope!

May he live long and prosper.

Herzlischen Glückwunsch zum Geburtstag, Benedetto!