UK Imam: “Non-Muslims are never innocent, they are guilty of denying Allah and his prophet”

The Anjem Chaudary video has, of course, been circulating for quite some time — it was already old when we posted it in December 2006 — but it bears repeating whenever you hear a Muslim spokesman in the West claiming that Islam forbids the killing of innocent civilians. Why is it so hard to get a definition of “innocent” in this context?

“Report: Non-Muslims Deserve to Be Punished,” from FoxNews (thanks to PNM):

A report posted on Islam Watch, a site run by Muslims who oppose intolerant teachings and hatred for unbelievers, exposes a prominent Islamic cleric and lawyer who support extreme punishment for non-Muslims “” including killing and rape.

A question-and-answer session with Imam Abdul Makin in an East London mosque asks why Allah would tell Muslims to kill and rape innocent non-Muslims, including their wives and daughters, according to Islam Watch.

“Because non-Muslims are never innocent, they are guilty of denying Allah and his prophet,” the Imam says, according to the report. “If you don’t believe me, here is the legal authority, the top Muslim lawyer of Britain.”

The lawyer, Anjem Choudary, backs up the Imam’s position, saying that all Muslims are innocent.

Click here to watch the interview with Islamic lawyer Anjem Choudary.

“You are innocent if you are a Muslim,” Choudary tells the BBC. “Then you are innocent in the eyes of God. If you are not a Muslim, then you are guilty of not believing in God.”

Choudary said he would not condemn a Muslim for any action.

“As a Muslim, I must support my Muslim brothers and sisters,” Choudary said. “I must have hatred to everything that is not Muslim.”

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Comments

  1. says

    Sheesh.

    When do the WOW servers come back on line?

    Did anyone ever notice how Allah is the only deity mentioned by name in World of Warcraft?

    Try it. Roll yourself a Night Elf and you’ll be hearing “Allah” every five minutes.

  2. says

    Listening to this guy is somewhat akin to listening to someone scrape their nails on a blackboard. I’ve reached my limits with these objectionable lunatics who are an affront to humanity and who should be exiled to permanent oblivion. We need heroes and warriors again….Arjuna with sage advice from Khrishna,St George to slay the dragon, King Arthur sorting out Mordred, Agent Cooper dealing with Bob and the Black Lodge. Luckily, we have Robert and Hugh, Wafa Sultan, Hirsi Ali, Geert Wilders, Ibn Warraq, Melanie Phillips, Walid Shoebat and so on….all warriors and heroes. But a political leader of Churchill’s calibre is lacking. It’s time to face the evil represented by this thug Chowdary and his pals and do what is required and necessary to destroy the enemies of civilisation.

  3. says

    This is really old news. I remember watching the video of Choudary over a year ago.

    The same thing happened a few months ago – Fox news “discovered” a video of a woman being stoned to death. The video had been on the internet of at least a year.

    So, it appears the mainstream media is far behind the bloggers and online Crusaders.

  4. says

    “Try it. Roll yourself a Night Elf and you’ll be hearing “Allah” every five minutes.”

    No thanks.

    But did you notice that the belves say, “Osama, bin ladin’orei?

    Just kidding – that’s my little funny.

    Gricend – undead mage on Kul Tiras (US)

  5. says

    I am looking for reasons why our leaders do not believe what they hear. They can’t all be idiots; can they?

    For nearly fifty years we heard similar crap from the Communist leaders across the planet, and it was all bluff and bluster. We have been jaded. We do not believe Ahmadinijad and his ilk because they sound just like the Soviets. I know I am rationalizing, but every now and then I get a little hope. Then, just like a 1/1000th of a second camera flash, it’s gone.

  6. says

    Another observation:

    This just illustrates the stark contrast between muslims and non-muslims.

    Say something offensive against islam, as Geert or van Gogh did, and your life is endangered.

    Say something offensive against people of faiths other than islam, such as the killing of non-muslims is acceptable, and non-muslims just shrug it off.

    Imagine for a moment this lawyer was a non-muslim talking about muslims. “Its okay to kill muslims, because they accept a moon god and that makes them guilty…” Or, imagine if a non-muslim advocated the rape of muslim women. Can you envision the outcry of “islamophobia” and “hate speech”? People would be outraged by the comments.

    But since it is a muslim speaking about non-muslims, who cares…

  7. says

    From the article (IslamWatch link from FoxNews)

    N.W.:” But did prophet approve of killing them and raping their wives?”

    Imam: “Yes he did. He not only approved of such acts, he and his sahabas practiced it regularly under Allah’s orders. He was helpless in it… If you don’t believe me , you have to believe sahih hadiths. I will quote you two hadiths about his typical day after a raid. These hadiths are about the raid on jewish village Khaibar whose chief was Kinana who had gorgeous 17 year old wife Safia. Prophet tortured and beheaded Kinana in front of Safia and raped her all night afterwards.

    Sahih Bukhari, volume 5, Book 59, Number 512: Narrated Anas: Then the inhabitants of Khaibar came out running on the roads. The Prophet had their men killed, their offspring and woman taken as captives. Safiya was amongst the captives, She first came in the share of Dahya Alkali but later on she belonged to the Prophet (prophet took her away from him after giving Dahya two women and five men in exchange for Safia, Ref. Sahih Muslim 8:3328).

    Sirat e Rasulullah, Ibn Hisham, page 766 “Safiyah was captured in the Khaibar raid and was claimed by the apostle as his share of booty.. She was then seventeen. She was groomed and made-up for the Prophet by Umm Sulaim, the mother of Anas ibn Malik. They spent the night there. In the early dawn, the Prophet suspected some movement near the tent) . He went out to enquire and saw Abu Ayyub.. He asked him what he was doing near his tent. He replied: “I was afraid for you with this young lady. You had killed her father, her husband and many of her relatives, and till recently she was an unbeliever. I was really afraid for you on her account and was guarding you.” The Prophet prayed for Abu Ayyub al-Ansari (Ibn Hisham, p. 766).

  8. says

    I don’t believe I’m over-dramatising when I state that Chowdry is the most dangerous individual in Britain.

    I just wish someone would tell the authorities, who seem content with nabbing his higher-profile, dumber hangers-on instead :sigh:

  9. says

    A question-and-answer session with Imam Abdul Makin in an East London mosque asks why Allah would tell Muslims to kill and rape innocent non-Muslims, including their wives and daughters, according to Islam Watch.

    “Because non-Muslims are never innocent, they are guilty of denying Allah and his prophet,” the Imam says, according to the report. “If you don’t believe me, here is the legal authority, the top Muslim lawyer of Britain.”

    Why is this not considered incitement to violence – WHY?

  10. says

    “I must have hatred to everything that is not Muslim.”

    Where on earth would he get a crazy idea like that from??

  11. says

    I must have hatred to everything that is not Muslim.”

    Where on earth would he get a crazy idea like that from??

    Posted by: alexon at April 1, 2008 6:55 PM

    It’s called the “Qur’an.” But, you know that.

  12. says

    The level of Multicultural dogma from Makin is just incredible. What a prime example of someone who believes deeply in the idea of everyone just getting along.

  13. says

    This is a little OT but I have been reading a biography on Christopher Columbus. I finally connected the dots and realized something that drove Christopher west. As you historians will recall the Turks had closed the spice roads in the east. To not be politically correct the Muslims were killing all of the infidels and taking over great areas of country. It was not for the spice it was to make the whole world Islamic (Johnny one note).

    Here is another interesting point of information. Columbus was trying to sell the Spanish thrown on the idea. Queen Isabella was interested but delayed telling the King because he was off fighting the Moors (more Muslims) and driving them from the Iberian peninsula. This delayed Christopher’s launch almost two years. The war was finally settled with the surrender of the Muslim King after 700 years of fighting. How many years in Iraq?

    What is that saying? “Those who forget history are bound to repeat it.” Winston Churchill As many have notice the Muslims call us Crusaders. The ignorant public equate this to being bad. Here is a way of turning the facts around with regard to what the Crusades were all about. And that the discovery of the Americas could have been delayed many many years. Kind of speculative but helps to keep things in perspective.

  14. says

    Stop listening to muslims themselves – afterall what would they know about their own religion?

    If politicians say islam is peaceful and loving, then it must be true.

    And that hadith above about mohammed reeatedly raping a 17 year old Jewish girl after brutally torturing and murdering her husband in front of her… isn’t that lovely? What other major religious figure can compete with that? Moses, Jesus, Buddha? Clearly Mohammed was a sterling example of holiness, goodness and peacefulness.

  15. says

    This is good, also from Islam Watch, in the same context:

    Imam Abdul, after a lot of thinking and contemplating, figured out that killing is too risky in England. He could end up behind bars for life. Rape is desirable, less risky and more fun. His congregation muslim members could help him in this Islamic duty by providing an alibi that he was preaching in the mosque at the time of the rape (in case he was apprehended).. He talked to them about this favour.. Seven of them agreed to testify for him provided Imam will do the same for them if they got caught themselves for their rape jihad.

    The Imam had been lusting for a while on a good looking kafira, who lived alone in the neighbourhood.. Late one night he entered her apartment, captured her at a knife point and brutally raped her. To complete the sunna he took her very expensive computer cell phone as halal booty (aya 8.1).
    The woman had seen this weird looking bearded pot bellied Imam walking in and out of the neighbourhood mosque. She reported him to the police and the Imam was nabbed. As promised the seven namazis testified for him and provided the alibi that Imam was preaching at the time of the rape.

    But alas! DNA test contradicted their testimony. He and his seven namazi friends were all sentenced to prison terms.

    http://www.islam-watch.org/AyeshaAhmed/London-Imam-Attempt-to-Carry-Out-Sunna.htm

  16. says

    This is PURE ISLAM. I am in awe of this guy’s grasp of the true and undiluted message of Allah.

    Some imams are disturbed by the killing and terrorizing of non-Muslims if the message of Islam is not clearly enunciated to them first. The Muslims have to tell us we are false and wicked and that Allah is God and Muhammad his prophet and if we don’t then become Muslims we are fair game for the blood lust, enrichment and sexual pleasure of all ‘believers’.

  17. says

    I really wish the “infidel” reporter had as much knowledge as those who present this site. What an interesting reaction it would have been if he had “converted” to Islam right there on the spot, then changed his mind in an instant and “unconverted”. Goading the muslim into a death threat may have been the way to put him away forever…

  18. says

    A question-and-answer session with Imam Abdul Makin in an East London mosque asks why Allah would tell Muslims to kill and rape innocent non-Muslims, including their wives and daughters, according to Islam Watch.

    “Because non-Muslims are never innocent, they are guilty of denying Allah and his prophet,” the Imam says, according to the report. “If you don’t believe me, here is the legal authority, the top Muslim lawyer of Britain.”

    “You are innocent if you are a Muslim,” Choudary tells the BBC. “Then you are innocent in the eyes of God. If you are not a Muslim, then you are guilty of not believing in God.”

    Choudary said he would not condemn a Muslim for any action.

    “As a Muslim, I must support my Muslim brothers and sisters,” Choudary said. “I must have hatred to everything that is not Muslim.”

    —————

    this is why those that read and understand the vileness that is the cult of islam have no respect for islam and its believers…………

    how many muslim murders, rapists child molesters are protected and run free due to protection from their fellow muslim brothers and sisters….

  19. says

    Whoever reported this for Fox deserves an F-.

    Islam Watch is not run by Muslims, as the reporter casually asserts, but by a group of self-identified “Muslim apostates. I learned this by simply reading their website’s “About Us” page, something that the Fox reporter obviously didn’t bother to do. Had he done so, he would also have seen the glaring header: “Islam Under Scrutiny by Ex-Muslims.”

    If I complain to Rupert Murdoch, will it do any good?

  20. says

    “……asks why Allah would tell Muslims to kill and rape innocent non-Muslims, including their wives and daughters, according to Islam Watch.”

    First and foremost – because allah is not the One True God – but an evil god we all know as satan, or the devil. Only an evil god would approve of and encourage such criminal behavior.

  21. says

    This is the one thing that jumps out at you when you read the Qur’an. First, it is anti-semitic document. Second, non-believers are to be killed, raped, sold into slavery and are more inferior than Muslim women. Muslim women are merely the property of Muslim men.

    How is that religious?

  22. says

    Well, I guess that explains all the killings of Muslims by Muslims….a dearth of Christians and Jews, and a surplus population of Muslims who aren’t Muslim enough for some Muslims, who are apparently too Muslim for the others, if you know what I mean.

  23. says

    Three questions arise here:

    Inasmuch as Islam is admittedly a destructive ideology that teaches targeting a selected group (“unbelievers”)for genocide—

    Why is Islam legally practiced in ANY western democracy?

    Why was Islam EVER permitted into the western democracies?

    Who in the western democracies will stand up to Islam and (we hope) begin the process of ridding it from the west???

  24. says

    “Why is Islam legally practiced in ANY western democracy?”

    Practicing?

    They stoped “practicing” a long time ago, they have this jihad thing pretty well down to where it is an instinct.

  25. says

    memo to pelayo:

    Violent ‘jihad’ against “unbelievers” is a time-honored component of Islamic doctrine and practice. (And one that targets a specified group—‘unbelievers’– and teaches Muslims to commit first degree murder of members of that group, I might hasten to add).

    As the Quran states in Surah 9.5 “And when the forbidden months have passed, slay the unbelievers everywhere they are found; besiege them, capture them, torture them; prepare every strategem of warfare against them; levy the poor tax upon them pending their conversion to the ways of al-lah.”

    Need I say more? except that

    Islam NEVER belonged in ANY western democracy! We must outlaw it NOW for the safety of all concerned.

  26. says

    This is a crystal clear case. If they are not British they should be treated as enemy aliens. If they are, they have clearly identified themselves as traitors and should be treated as such. Anything less is an abrogation of responsibility of the government, could even be viewed as treason.

  27. says

    What a striking contrast to Christianity: Remember the story of the good Samaritan? Here was a man who had been robbed and beat up, and was laying on the side of the road. All of the Jewish people (who muslims would refer to as “believers”) passed the man by on the other side of the street; but a Samaritan (who muslims would refer to as an “infidel”) helped the man, and gave him everything he needed to make him better.

    Compare that to Islam, as explained by Anjem Chaudary: If you’re a muslim, you’re always right; but if you are a non-muslim, you are always wrong.

    In the story of the good Samaritan, the “non-muslim” was actually the good person, whereas the “muslims” were the bad people.

    Why? Because man looks on the outward appearance, but the True God looks on the heart.

    In one of the writings of the Apostle Paul, Paul said that the “non-muslims” were grafted into the Tree because of their faith, whereas the “muslims” were broken from the Tree because of their unbelief. Why? Because the True God looks at the heart.

    Please understand that the last thing I want to do is to imply that muslims are righteous, and non-muslims are unrighteous. Nothing could be further from the truth. I’m simply trying to make a point.

  28. says

    un:dimmi “I don’t believe I’m over-dramatising when I state that Chowdry is the most dangerous individual in Britain.”

    Aren’t you confusing the messanger with the message? no, chowdry is not the most dangerous muslim. he is only being honestly outspoken as to what his fellow muslims really believe.
    same with the imam. No, the message as written in the koran is a lot more dangerous. this is the point that Geert is making with FITNA, that all muslim violence can be traced to the writings in the koran. The book that tells every muslim what to think, what to do, and how to do it.

  29. says

    Very often it is the converts to Islam are more dangerous. This does not mean the “converts” who converted decades ago. I don’t have in mind the sad-eyed plump pederast, who on an archeological dig in a Muslim country is attracted to some locals, and then discovers, or thinks he discovers, in the warmth of the mosque’s camaraderie something missing from, as he sees it, chilly and judgmental Christianity. No, nor do I mean the person who, just as others sample dim sum and tapas and chimichangas at some Food Court, stops to sample the offerings in some Faith Court for Spiritual Searchers, and tastes Islam, and decides he need search no longer.

    No, I mean that someone who is alienated from the circumambient Western society, and finds a faith that legitimates that alienation, that encourages him (or her) to “get back” at that (non-Muslim) society, that furthermore seems to offer a cheap squeak of uplift amidst all the aggression against the Unbeliever, and that, furthermore, provides for all the Wandering Souls of this world, victims of Durkheimian anomie, or low-level despair and mental disarray of one sort or another, seems to provide The Answer, for The Answer must be a Total Answer, and Islam is, unlike other faiths, certainly that. Do you want to know what is prohibited, and what commanded, in every area of life? Do you no longer want to have to worry about making choices? Then Islam is the faith for you.

    It even provides a Supreme Leader and Guide who, though no longer among the living, has left record of his words and deeds, set down in the Hadith, so that this Perfect Model of Conduct, uswa hasana (33:21), this Perfect Man, al-insan al-kamil, stands radiantly before us as guide and model. What he did, we should do. Child-brides? Okay by Muhammad, so okay by the deeply learned theologian Ayatollah Khomeini, who immediately lowered the marriageable age of Iranian girls to nine. Statues? Dogs? Not okay by Muhammad, who would not enter a house that had statues or dogs in it. So that takes care of that, for a dutiful Muslim living today. And so on — multiply ten thousand times, for all the Rules & Regulations.

    Those who are simply, through no fault of their own, born into Islam, are quite different from those who willingly, eagerly, accept it when they do not have to. And that is why campaigns of Da’wa are a threat, and have to be recognized as what they are — an instrument of Jihad, designed to swell Muslim numbers, deep within, deep inside, the Lands still ruled by the Infidels. That is not my category, that is not my — or your — natural way of seeing things: Bilad al-Kufr, the Lands of the Infidels. But it comes naturally to Islam. You need to learn those words, those phrases, that way of seeing the world. Only thus will you be able to figure out what works, and what is wasteful, in the war of self-defense against the Jihad.

    Two can play the game, of course. But are we? How many efforts are made to convert Muslims living in the West? A lot? A little? Every encounter with a Muslim should be designed to shake, just a little, his faith. The “converts” should be out of, and not into, Islam.

    And the best way to start this counter-Da’wa is to uninhibitedly, and sure-footedly, ask, or raise the question, as to why despotism is so prevalent in Muslim countries? And why economic activity, save for that generated by, and completely dependent on, oil wealth, remains so backward? And why the treatment of non-Muslims has led to their leaving lands where Muslims come to dominate, and thereby leading to much less interesting, culturally impoverished societies (think of Alexandria or Cairo, circa 1920, and think of them today) — this might be called the “Yacoubian-Building Appeal,” a way of shaking the faith at least of those Muslims who fancy themselves intellectuals. And what Iraqi, of the old elite, does not hark back to some fabled time, long before Saddam Hussein, when there were Christians — and, still more fabulous creatures, Jews — in old wonderful, remembered or misremembered Baghdad. But the same with “old Beirut” and “old Damascus” and wonderful “old Algiers.” But now they have been emptied, or are about to be emptied, of the non-Muslims, and the monochromatic world of Islam, Islam, Islam — will be all that’s left. Similarly, the Hindus have been persecuted, harried, murdered, in both post-Partition Pakistan and Bangladesh,and their numbers in both countries have declined, steeply. What does this mean for the Muslims in those countries? What does the “Bumiputra” system mean for raising the question, with of the political, economic, and social failures of the Muslim societies and states from which Muslims arrive. If they recognize those failures, if they wish to remain in the c blessed West, they need to be pushed to ask themselves what it is that has led to those political, economic, social, moral, and intellectual failures, from the lands from which they come, and then need to ask themselves why they would ever wish to work for the dominance of the very thing – Islam – the practical effects of which in their own countries of Dar al-Islam drove them to seek a better life in the non-Muslim West, that is a West that turned out to be better than the places they came from because it was non-Muslim?

  30. says

    Posted by Hugh:
    And the best way to start this counter-Da’wa is to uninhibitedly, and sure-footedly, ask, or raise the question, as to why despotism is so prevalent in Muslim countries? And why economic activity, save for that generated by, and completely dependent on, oil wealth, remains so backward? And why the treatment of non-Muslims has led to their leaving lands where Muslims come to dominate, and thereby leading to much less interesting, culturally impoverished societies

    Reading this, I couldn’t help but think of how important Jizyah was/is to their econonmy.

    What would an Islamafied USA look like if all the tax paying infidels left?

    A parisitic theocracy with no “middle class” to suck on.

    Islam is dependent on oil and dhimmis to support their existence.

  31. says

    Praise the lord and pass the ammunition:

    Anjem Chaudary is a blessing! A Muhammad worshipper who tells the truth is rare as hens teeth!

    Listen to the man! Thank heavens we have such outsoken lunatics from the RoP!

    For every Anjem Chaudrey there are hundreds who excel in the art of taqiyya who tell the nutroots and the moonbats that all’s really good, if we only throw money at the problem everything will turn out just right, that the sharia is really not bad at all… blabla babble babble…

    And we want to be nice, because multiculti diverstity has replaced religion and sanity, the ‘new world order’ must be established, a ‘thousand points of light’ under the sharia…

    Vomit bag, please….

  32. says

    Lex – Thanks for making your point above.

    I too noted that islam-watch.org is run by “ex-muslims” (apostates).

    The Fox news report is in error.
    “A report posted on Islam Watch, a site run by Muslims who oppose intolerant teachings and hatred for unbelievers, exposes a prominent Islamic cleric and lawyer who support extreme punishment for non-Muslims ” including killing and rape.”

    In actuality, Islam Watch is a site run by ex-Muslims who have rejected the hateful teachings of islam.

  33. says

    Hugh:
    When you read the Quran say surah 9 and the commentary by Ibn Kathir Chaudary seems completely orthodox ,as he truly is.
    Does the West understand this? Is the Pope a Baptist!

  34. says

    …when do you start deporting these individuals?

    Posted by: ploome at April 1, 2008 10:56 PM

    These individuals?

    That is not an interesting question. In fact it is misleading one as it implies that the deadly danger to our civilization comes from “individuals”, not from Islam itself.

    Individuals we may deport, jail, or kill if necessary, but it is the growing exponentially moslems masses and their, and therefore Islam’s, growing political power and increasing ability to produce such “individuals” which we must address.

    In my mind, nothing but a total stop to moslem immigration and mass deportation of moslems (with some exceptions) will do.

  35. says

    “Imagine for a moment this lawyer was a non-muslim talking about muslims. “Its okay to kill muslims, because they accept a moon god and that makes them guilty…” Or, imagine if a non-muslim advocated the rape of muslim women. Can you envision the outcry of “islamophobia” and “hate speech”? People would be outraged by the comments.”
    ————————————————–
    What’s good for the goose…….

  36. says

    “As a Muslim, I must support my Muslim brothers and sisters,” Choudary said. “I must have hatred to everything that is not Muslim.”
    == == == == ==

    And I, as a devout advocate of secular Western civilization, must oppose every attempt by weak-minded fools to promote acceptance and toleration of the intolerable: the Islamist mindset of superiority and domination.

    I reject Islam utterly, totally, and for all time. Allah is no god (least of all mine);
    Mohammed was no Perfect Man (he was a malignant narcissist, a megalomaniac);
    the Quran is not the eternal word of god (unless your idea of eternal truth includes Allah saying “Sometimes I seem to contradict myself; this happens when I’ve come up with a better idea than what I said the first time. You need to understand that any later eternal truths replace whatever I said in my earlier eternal truth”).

  37. says

    At least it’s nice to know where a guy is coming from, and knowing what’s on his mind.

    Using his rationale, none of the office workers at the WTC were “innocent” because they were non-muslim, and therefore were no longer considered innocent civilians.

    It’s all so clear now…

  38. says

    Aren’t you confusing the messanger [sic] with the message?

    No I’m not. I know of whom I speak – and his personal and organisational connections. Do you?

    I will state again my firm belief that he is the most dangerous individual in Britain today. I believe he is among those directly responsible for inciting 7/7.