Obama: Hamas, Hizballah have "legitimate claims"

"Really? What are they?"

Well for starters, they keep claiming Israel must be destroyed.

I guess Obama is willing to lend recognition to that.

Anyhow, I smell dhimwit.

"Both need to be compelled to understand that “they’re going down a blind alley with violence that weakens their legitimate claims.”..

Question, what " Legitimate claims" is he raising here?

I believe we should let EVERY nation and their leaders know our position, and be clear about where we stand. We first of course need to know where our "leaders" stand.

The Bommah discovers the 'root-causes', I'm speechless!

Did a certain Sowdi prince help him on his discovery trip?

'Compelled?' Wouldn't that mean using force on them, or at least a complete break with usual treatment that they get?

Careful there Obama, you're treading towards politically incorrect ground!

Obama is the first candidate who has ever made me literally wonder how soundly I will sleep at night if he is elected.

Let's see, should I put the mark on my forehead or the wrist...I'll take neither.

The Shiites may have some legitimate grievances and Arabs who live in Gaza and West Bank have some legitimate grievances. Hezbollah and Hamas are not legitimate agents to represent those grievances. In a similar manner the Germans had legitimate issues are the WWI treaties, the Nazis were not a legitimate agent after they became associated with Hitler.

I hope no one here finds it surprising that Obama is trying to appease those groups. After all, he does need to retain his hold on the Muslim voting blocs in America...

"That’s an evolution that should be recognized."

Darwinian 'Evolution' as understood is an undirected random process by chance over geological periods of time. Pretty much sums up US foreign policy!

I asked him if negotiating with a theocratic/ideological power like Iran is different from negotiating with a nation that’s primarily pursuing material interests. He acknowledged that “If your opponents are looking for your destruction it’s hard to sit across the table from them,” but, he continued: “There are rarely purely ideological movements out there. We can encourage actors to think in practical and not ideological terms. We can strengthen those elements that are making practical calculations.”
-from the article

Does Obama listen to himself? Our "opponent" has said just recently that it seeks our destruction!
Obama also sees nothing wrong with "sitting across the table from them".

Does he think he can get the mullahs "to think in practical and not ideological terms"? That's been tried.

Apparently, he’s part Harry Hopkins and part James Baker.

Is that a joke?

Obama here provides just one more example of his thinking (if you can dignify it with that term) which has led me to conclude that if he is elected President, he will be at best totally ineffective and at worst a complete disaster. Hell, he could be so bad that even many of the Bush haters would start to look upon the 43rd President nostalgically. Put another way, Jimmy Carter must see of lot of himself in Obama and if this isn't cause for concern, nothing is.

Brooks: Everybody knows that Obama is smart (and he was quite well informed about Lebanon). The question is whether he’s seasoned and tough enough to deal with implacable enemies.

Exactly.

(U.S.) Dearborn: Local Muslim leader met privately with Obama -- Imam Hassan Qazwini, head of the Islamic Center of America in Dearborn

-- Wikipedia: Hassan Al-Qazwini

-- Report of Undercover Research at Qazwini's mosque -- Qazwini's "frenzied applause and wild cheering" at Farrakhan

-- Debbie Schlussel alleges "Qazwini is a leader in the jihad and an open supporter of terrorist groups HAMAS and Hezbollah. He is a supporter and associate of Hezbollah spiritual leader Sheikh Mohammed Hussein Fadlallah, a Specially Designated Global Terrorist on the Treasure Department terrorist list."

-- Hezbollah U.S.A, Part III: My Date at Dearbornistan's Hezbollah Social Club

-- The Boston Globe, dated October 23, 2000, it was reported that, during a lecture Hassan Al-Qazwini was giving inside a university classroom, Imam Sayed Hassan Al-Qazwini had "expressed...hostility towards Jews."

-- The Company He Keeps: Obama Hangs With Hezbollah's Iranian Agent Imam

"Anyhow, I smell dhimwit." by Sounder

You smell dhimwit; I smell antisemite.

According to columnist David Brooks, who has been talking in his naive boy-scoutish way to Barack Obama, the teflon candidate believes that “the U.S. needs a foreign policy that “looks at the root causes of problems and dangers.” And, again according to Brooks, “Obama compared Hezbollah to Hamas. Both need to be compelled to understand that ‘they’re going down a blind alley with violence that weakens their legitimate claims.’”

Let's start with the "legitimate claims" of Hamas. In fact, let's start with just one of the sections in the Hamas Charter, which is the clearest guide to Hamas's unswerving world-view and intentions.

Here it is:

"Article Seven: The Universality of Hamas

By virtue of the distribution of Muslims, who pursue the cause of the Hamas, all over the globe, and strive for its victory, for the reinforcement of its positions and for the encouragement of its Jihad, the Movement is a universal one. It is apt to be that due to the clarity of its thinking, the nobility of its purpose and the loftiness of its objectives. It is in this light that the Movement has to be regarded, evaluated and acknowledged. Whoever denigrates its worth, or avoids supporting it, or is so blind as to dismiss its role, is challenging Fate itself. Whoever closes his eyes from seeing the facts, whether intentionally or not, will wake up to find himself overtaken by events, and will find no excuses to justify his position. Priority is reserved to the early comers. Oppressing those who are closest to you, is more of an agony to the soul than the impact of an Indian sword. “And unto thee have we revealed the Scripture with the truth, confirming whatever scripture was before it, and a watcher over it. So judge between them by that which Allah hath revealed, and follow not their desires away from the truth which has come unto thee. For each we have appointed a divine law and a traced-out way. Had Allah willed, He could have made you one community. But that He may try you by that which he has given you [He has made you as you are]. So vie with one another in good works. Unto Allah, you will all return. He will then inform you of that wherein you differ.” Hamas is one of the links in the Chain of Jihad in the confrontation with the Zionist invasion. It links up with the setting out of the Martyr Izz a-din al-Qassam and his brothers in the Muslim Brotherhood who fought the Holy War in 1936; it further relates to another link of the Palestinian Jihad and the Jihad and efforts of the Muslim Brothers during the 1948 War, and to the Jihad operations of the Muslim Brothers in 1968 and thereafter. But even if the links have become distant from each other, and even if the obstacles erected by those who revolve in the Zionist orbit, aiming at obstructing the road before the Jihad fighters, have rendered the pursuance of Jihad impossible; nevertheless, the Hamas has been looking forward to implement Allah’s promise whatever time it might take. The prophet, prayer and peace be upon him, said: The time will not come until Muslims will fight the Jews (and kill them); until the Jews hide behind rocks and trees, which will cry: O Muslim! there is a Jew hiding behind me, come on and kill him! This will not apply to the Gharqad, which is a Jewish tree (cited by Bukhari and Muslim)."

Now let's see that Article Seven reproduced, or read out over the radio, by those who would like Barack Obama to tell us about his view of Hamas, and its "legitimate claims."

It is Edmund, isn't it, in King Lear, who notes: "Fine word, legitimate."

"legitimate claims" ?????????

Since when is hatred a legitimate claim.

And once Barack Obama has had a chance to take in Article Eight of the Hamas Charter, and to relate it to the "legitimate rights" of the "Palestinian people," perhaps he can deal with Article Fifteen as well:

Article Fifteen: The Jihad for the Liberation of Palestine is an Individual Obligation

When our enemies usurp some Islamic lands, Jihad becomes a duty binding on all Muslims. In order to face the usurpation of Palestine by the Jews, we have no escape from raising the banner of Jihad. This would require the propagation of Islamic consciousness among the masses on all local, Arab and Islamic levels. We must spread the spirit of Jihad among the [Islamic] Umma, clash with the enemies and join the ranks of the Jihad fighters. The ‘ulama as well as educators and teachers, publicity and media men as well as the masses of the educated, and especially the youth and the elders of the Islamic Movements, must participate in this raising of consciousness. There is no escape from introducing fundamental changes in educational curricula in order to cleanse them from all vestiges of the ideological invasion which has been brought about by orientalists and missionaries. That invasion had begun overtaking this area following the defeat of the Crusader armies by Salah a-Din el Ayyubi. The Crusaders had understood that they had no way to vanquish the Muslims unless they prepared the grounds for that with an ideological invasion which would confuse the thinking of Muslims, revile their heritage, discredit their ideals, to be followed by a military invasion. That was to be in preparation for the Imperialist invasion, as in fact [General] Allenby acknowledged it upon his entry to Jerusalem: “Now, the Crusades are over.” General Gouraud stood on the tomb of Salah a-Din and declared: “We have returned, O Salah-a-Din!” Imperialism has been instrumental in boosting the ideological invasion and deepening its roots, and it is still pursuing this goal. All this had paved the way to the loss of Palestine. We must imprint on the minds of generations of Muslims that the Palestinian problem is a religious one, to be dealt with on this premise. It includes Islamic holy sites such as the Aqsa Mosque, which is inexorably linked to the Holy Mosque as long as the Heaven and earth will exist, to the journey of the Messenger of Allah, be Allah’s peace and blessing upon him, to it, and to his ascension from it. “Dwelling one day in the Path of Allah is better than the entire world and everything that exists in it. The place of the whip of one among you in Paradise is better than the entire world and everything that exists in it. [God’s] worshiper’s going and coming in the Path of Allah is better than the entire world and everything that exists in it.” (Told by Bukhari, Muslim Tirmidhi and Ibn Maja) I swear by that who holds in His Hands the Soul of Muhammad! I indeed wish to go to war for the sake of Allah! I will assault and kill, assault and kill, assault and kill (told by Bukhari and Muslim)."

And Barack Obama shouldn't forget to deal especially with the last few sentences in the last paragraph above.

And you Americans will decide whether he is your next president?

If this is what he says during the campaign,

What does he REALLY think?

And while Barack Obama and his handlers can locate the full text of the Hamas Charter, which perfectly embodies the mental condition of Hamas members, "legitimate claims" and all, they may also want to take a good look at the Hezbollah Program, as set forth in 1985 by Sheikh Fadlallah.

Here it is:

Our Identity
We are often asked: Who are we, the Hizballah, and what is our identity? We are the sons of the umma (Muslim community) - the party of God (Hizb Allah) the vanguard of which was made victorious by God in Iran. There the vanguard succeeded to lay down the bases of a Muslim state which plays a central role in the world. We obey the orders of one leader, wise and just, that of our tutor and faqih (jurist) who fulfills all the necessary conditions: Ruhollah Musawi Khomeini. God save him!

By virtue of the above, we do not constitute an organized and closed party in Lebanon. nor are we a tight political cadre. We are an umma linked to the Muslims of the whole world by the solid doctrinal and religious connection of Islam, whose message God wanted to be fulfilled by the Seal of the Prophets, i.e., Muhammad. This is why whatever touches or strikes the Muslims in Afghanistan, Iraq, the Philippines and elsewhere reverberates throughout the whole Muslim umma of which we are an integral part. Our behavior is dictated to us by legal principles laid down by the light of an overall political conception defined by the leading jurist (wilayat al-faqih).

As for our culture, it is based on the Holy Koran, the Sunna and the legal rulings of the faqih who is our source of imitation (marja' al-taqlid). Our culture is crystal clear. It is not complicated and is accessible to all.

No one can imagine the importance of our military potential as our military apparatus is not separate from our overall social fabric. Each of us is a fighting soldier. And when it becomes necessary to carry out the Holy War, each of us takes up his assignment in the fight in accordance with the injunctions of the Law, and that in the framework of the mission carried out under the tutelage of the Commanding Jurist.

Our Fight

The US has tried, through its local agents, to persuade the people that those who crushed their arrogance in Lebanon and frustrated their conspiracy against the oppressed (mustad'afin) were nothing but a bunch of fanatic terrorists whose sole aim is to dynamite bars and destroy slot machines. Such suggestions cannot and will not mislead our umma, for the whole world knows that whoever wishes to oppose the US, that arrogant superpower, cannot indulge in marginal acts which may make it deviate from its major objective. We combat abomination and we shall tear out its very roots, its primary roots, which are the US. All attempts made to drive us into marginal actions will fail, especially as our determination to fight the US is solid.

We declare openly and loudly that we are an umma which fears God only and is by no means ready to tolerate injustice, aggression and humiliation. America, its Atlantic Pact allies, and the Zionist entity in the holy land of Palestine, attacked us and continue to do so without respite. Their aim is to make us eat dust continually. This is why we are, more and more, in a state of permanent alert in order to repel aggression and defend our religion, our existence, our dignity. They invaded our country, destroyed our villages, slit the throats of our children, violated our sanctuaries and appointed masters over our people who committed the worst massacres against our umma. They do not cease to give support to these allies of Israel, and do not enable us to decide our future according to our own wishes.

In a single night the Israelis and the Phalangists executed thousands of our sons, women and children in Sabra and Shatilla. No international organization protested or denounced this ferocious massacre in an effective manner, a massacre perpetrated with the tacit accord of America's European allies, which had retreated a few days, maybe even a few hours earlier, from the Palestinian camps. The Lebanese defeatists accepted putting the camps under the protection of that crafty fox, the US envoy Philip Habib.

We have no alternative but to confront aggression by sacrifice. The coordination between the Phalangists and Israel continues and develops. A hundred thousand victims - this is the approximate balance sheet of crimes committed by them and by the US against us. Almost half a million Muslims were forced to leave their homes. Their quarters were virtually totally destroyed in Nab'a, my own Beirut suburb, as well as in Burj Hammud, Dekonaneh, Tel Zaatar, Sinbay, Ghawarina and Jubeil - all in areas controlled today by the 'Lebanese Forces',. The Zionist occupation then launched its usurpatory invasion of Lebanon in full and open collusion with the Phalanges. The latter condemned all attempts to resist the invading forces. They participated in the implementation of certain Israeli plans in order to accomplish its Lebanese dream and acceded to all Israeli requests in order to gain power.

And this is, in fact, what happened. Bashir Jumayyil, that butcher, seized power with the help also of OPEC countries and the Jumayyil family. Bashir tried to improve his ugly image by joining the six-member Committee of Public Safety presided over by former President Elias Sarkis, which was nothing but an American-Israeli bridge borrowed by the Phalangists in order to control the oppressed. Our people could not tolerate humiliation any more. It destroyed the oppressors, the invaders and their lackeys. But the US persisted in its folly and installed Amin Jumayyil to replace his brother. Some of his first so called achievements were to destroy the homes of refugees and other displaced persons, attack mosques, and order the army to bombard the southern suburbs of Beirut, where the oppressed people resided. He invited European troops to help him against us and signed the May 17th, [1984] accord with Israel making Lebanon an American protectorate.

Our people could not bear any more treachery. It decided to oppose infidelity - be it French, American or Israeli - by striking at their headquarters and launching a veritable war of resistance against the Occupation forces. Finally, the enemy had to decide to retreat by stages.

Our Objectives

Let us put it truthfully: the sons of Hezbollah know who are their major enemies in the Middle East - the Phalanges, Israel, France and the US. The sons of our umma are now in a state of growing confrontation with them, and will remain so until the realization of the following three objectives:

(a) to expel the Americans. the French and their allies definitely from Lebanon, putting an end to any colonialist entity on our land;

(b) to submit the Phalanges to a just power and bring them all to justice for the crimes they have perpetrated against Muslims and Christians;

(c) to permit all the sons of our people to determine their future and to choose in all the liberty the form of government they desire. We call upon all of them to pick the option of Islamic government which, alone, is capable of guaranteeing justice and liberty for all. Only an Islamic regime can stop any further tentative attempts of imperialistic infiltration into our country.

These are Lebanon's objectives; those are its enemies. As for our friends, they are all the world's oppressed peoples. Our friends are also those who combat our enemies and who defend us from their evil. Towards these friends, individuals as well as organizations, we turn and say:

Friends, wherever you are in Lebanon... we are in agreement with you on the great and necessary objectives: destroying American hegemony in our land; putting an end to the burdensome Israeli Occupation; beating back all the Phalangists' attempts to monopolize power and administration.

Even though we have, friends, quite different viewpoints as to the means of the struggle, on the levels upon which it must be carried out, we should surmount these tiny divergencies and consolidate cooperation between us in view of the grand design.
We are an umma which adheres to the message of Islam. We want all the oppressed to be able to study the divine message in order to bring justice, peace and tranquillity to the world. This is why we don't want to impose Islam upon anybody, as much as we that others impose upon us their convictions and their political systems. We don't want Islam to reign in Lebanon by force as is the case with the Maronites today. This is the minimum that we can accept in order to be able to accede by legal means to realize our ambitions, to save Lebanon from its dependence upon East and West, to put an end to foreign occupation and to adopt a regime freely wanted by the people of Lebanon.

This is our perception of the present state of affairs. This is the Lebanon we envision. In the light of our conceptions, our opposition to the present system is the function of two factors; (1) the present regime is the product of an arrogance so unjust that no reform or modification can remedy it. It should be changed radically, and (2) World Imperialism which is hostile to Islam.

We consider that all opposition in Lebanon voiced in the name of reform can only profit, ultimately, the present system. All such opposition which operates within the framework of the conservation and safeguarding of the present constitution without demanding changes at the level of the very foundation of the regime is, hence, an opposition of pure formality which cannot satisfy the interests of the oppressed masses. Likewise, any opposition which confronts the present regime but within the limits fixed by it, is an illusory opposition which renders a great service to the Jumayyil system. Moreover, we cannot be concerned by any proposition of political reform which accepts the rotten system actually in effect. We could not care less about the creation of this or that governmental coalition or about the participation of this or that political personality in some ministerial post, which is but a part of this unjust regime.

The politics followed by the chiefs of political Maronism through the 'Lebanese Front' and the 'Lebanese Forces' cannot guarantee peace and tranquillity for the Christians of Lebanon, whereas it is predicated upon 'asabiyya (narrow-minded particularism), on confessional privileges and on the alliance with colonialism. The Lebanese crisis has proven that confessional privileges are one of the principal causes of the great explosion which ravaged the country. It also proved that outside help was of no use to the Christians of Lebanon, just when they need it most. The bell tolled for the fanatic Christians to rid themselves of denominational allegiance and of illusion deriving from the monopolization of privileges to the detriment of other communities. The Christians should answer the appeal from heaven and have recourse to reason instead of arms, to persuasion instead of confessionalism.

To the Christians

If you, Christians, cannot tolerate that Muslims share with you certain domains of government, Allah has also made it intolerable for Muslims to participate in an unjust regime, unjust for you and for us, in a regime which is not predicated upon the prescriptions (ahkam) of religion and upon the basis of the Law (the Shari’a) as laid down by Muhammad, the Seal of the Prophets. If you search for justice, who is more just than Allah? It is He who sent down from the sky the message of Islam through his successive prophets in order that they judge the people and give everyone his rights. If you were deceived and misled into believing that we anticipate vengeance against you - your fears are unjustified. For those of you who are peaceful, continue to live in our midst without anybody even thinking to trouble you.

We don't wish you evil. We call upon you to embrace Islam so that you can be happy in this world and the next. If you refuse to adhere to Islam, maintain your ties with the Muslims and don't take part in any activity against them. Free yourselves from the consequences of hateful confessionalism. Banish from your hearts all fanaticism and parochialism. Open your hearts to our Call (da'wa) which we address to you. Open yourselves up to Islam where you'll find salvation and happiness upon earth and in the hereafter. We extend this invitation also to all the oppressed among the non-Muslims. As for those who belong to Islam only formally, we exhort them to adhere to Islam in religious practice and to renounce all fanaticisms which are rejected by our religion.

World Scene

We reject both the USSR and the US, both Capitalism and Communism, for both are incapable of laying the foundations for a just society.

With special vehemence we reject UNIFIL as they were sent by world arrogance to occupy areas evacuated by Israel and serve for the latter as a buffer zone. They should be treated much like the Zionists. All should know that the goals of the Phalangists regime do not carry any weight with the Combatants of the Holy War, i.e., the Islamic resistance. This is the quagmire which awaits all foreign intervention.

There, then, are our conceptions and our objectives which serve as our basis and inspire our march. Those who accept them should know that all rights belong to Allah and He bestows them. Those who reject them, we'll be patient with them, till Allah decides between us and the people of injustice.

The Necessity for the Destruction of Israel (See ICT Note)

We see in Israel the vanguard of the United States in our Islamic world. It is the hated enemy that must be fought until the hated ones get what they deserve. This enemy is the greatest danger to our future generations and to the destiny of our lands, particularly as it glorifies the ideas of settlement and expansion, initiated in Palestine, and yearning outward to the extension of the Great Israel, from the Euphrates to the Nile.

Our primary assumption in our fight against Israel states that the Zionist entity is aggressive from its inception, and built on lands wrested from their owners, at the expense of the rights of the Muslim people. Therefore our struggle will end only when this entity is obliterated. We recognize no treaty with it, no cease fire, and no peace agreements, whether separate or consolidated.

We vigorously condemn all plans for negotiation with Israel, and regard all negotiators as enemies, for the reason that such negotiation is nothing but the recognition of the legitimacy of the Zionist occupation of Palestine. Therefore we oppose and reject the Camp David Agreements, the proposals of King Fahd, the Fez and Reagan plan, Brezhnev's and the French-Egyptian proposals, and all other programs that include the recognition (even the implied recognition) of the Zionist entity."

Everyone will have his own favorite part of this document -- not an impressive statement, but one that certainly leaves an impression. And that impression, for those who still retain the ability to think, is or should be one of total horror.

My favorite part is the Address to The Christians Of Lebanon, a little Call to Islam, a little Da'wa in the night:

"We don't wish you evil. We call upon you to embrace Islam so that you can be happy in this world and the next. If you refuse to adhere to Islam, maintain your ties with the Muslims and don't take part in any activity against them. Free yourselves from the consequences of hateful confessionalism. Banish from your hearts all fanaticism and parochialism. Open your hearts to our Call (da'wa) which we address to you. Open yourselves up to Islam where you'll find salvation and happiness upon earth and in the hereafter."

Imagine you are a Christian, and especially a Maronite, living in Lebanon. The Maronites were there, non-Arabs, long before the Arabs arrived, "bearing the gift of Islam." And while they did, finally, in recent centuries, start using Arabic (before that they had continued stubbornly to use Aramaic, as is still done in some villages in Syria), thus in a way succumbing to the Arab linguistic (and cultural) imperialism that naturally accompanies islamization (and can have its effect even on those who, while still resisting Islam, nonetheless are tricked into thinkinf of themselves as "Arabs" and then the consciousness of [even false] "arabness" or "Uruba" becomes so entwined with Islam, the "gift of the Arabs" to the world, that Arabic-speaking Christians in some, but not all, cases start to become apologists for, defenders of, Islam and the geopolitical cause of Muslims.

You are a Maronite. You have resisted, you come from a long line of resisters. If anyone in that long line had not resisted, you would no longer be a Maronite. And now you hear, and you understand, the blood-curdling "Call to Islam" that is in this Hezbollah charter.

So why Barack Obama wish aloud to David Brooks that Hezbollah would act differently, and Hamas too, so that for both organizations, their "legitimate claims" could be staked and listened to with respect.

Their "legitimate claims."

"Legitimate claims."

Unfortunately, Hugh is way ahead of where Barack Obama ever will be on the matter of Islam and its implementers like Hamas and Hezbollah. Obama's just one more smart guy (they come a dime a dozen) who is neither wise nor informed. But, oh yes, he has charisma and offers hope and change for the future.

NOBAMA! No way!

You think I don't have charisma? And my campaign manager says I also offer at least as much "hope and change for the future" as Barack Obama, albeit with a YouTube soundtrack of songs from the 1920s and 1930s.

Obama is giving us sneak previews of why we should not buy into his act...A word to the wise and all that...

It is time for the opponents of Obama to make their knowledge known by showing up to his Public gatherings, holding the White Flag of Surrender.

Nothing need be said, no speeches made, no one provoked. The symbolism will speak for itself. The greater the number seen, the stronger the message made.

Good at any Demoncratic function if you get right down to it.

Hugh: I don't know for a certainty that you have charisma, though I will presume that you do. But I do know you are wise and informed and I'll take that over platitudes about hope and change anyday. But the soundtrack accompaniment from the 1920s and 30s? Hmmm, not so sure. Try it out and get back to me on this one.

flowerknife us: First rate idea about the White Flag. Would love to see it implemented many times over since Obama strikes me as so naive respecting how to deal with the forces of anti-civilization that he's starting to make Neville Chamberlain look like a guy who had backbone.

I have read the 1964 and 1968 'palestinian' / PLO statements of intent. I have read, in Un Chretien Pour Israel, Jacques Ellul's masterly deconstruction of the 1968 PLO Charter, in which he sees clean through the mask of western-style liberationspeak to the Islamic substrate, diagnosing the whole thing as 'a perfect expression of the Jihad'.

I have read the Hamas Charter. But I had not encountered the Hezbollah mission statement. Much thanks to Hugh for providing the hair-raising excerpt above.

Where is the mainstream western newspaper, or for that matter, university student newspaper, or church paper (Catholic or Protestant) with the courage to publish in full the text of all four statements of intent - PLO 1964 and 1968, Hamas and Hezbollah - suitably annotated by someone like you, or Mr Spencer, or Bat Yeor? With a headline: 'Just like Hitler did, they [Hamas, Hezbollah, the sheikhs, imams, mullahs] mean every word that they say'.

Such a publisher could throw in an English translation of Jacques Ellul's commentary on the 1968 document, for good measure, making sure to remind people that he also wrote two books which many self-styled radicals, Christian or secular, invest with much authority - 'Propaganda' and 'The Technological Society'. And they could reproduce, too, if they liked, his foreword on 'Jihad', which he wrote for Bat Yeor's 'Decline of Eastern Christianity Under Islam'. Christian publications might consider commissioning, and publishing alongside such texts, a translation of Ellul's devastating 'take' on 'interfaith dialogue', entitled 'the three pillars of conformity'.

Failing that: where is the student society, Christian, Sceptical (at the University of Sydney there were the 'Atheists and Agnostics'), or Jewish, or perhaps representatives of all three groups together, who will stand in the centre of the main quadrangle, in universities across the western world, at lunchtime, in broad daylight, and read these horrendous jihadi manifestoes aloud?

And then, with coldly rational fury, such a protest group might explain just why the people - 'palestinians', Hamas, Hezbollah - who produced those texts, and subscribe to them, and fully intend to carry them out to the last terrible letter, should be anathema to the entire civilised world.

Hold a 'teach-in'.

One might amuse oneself by also reading out, by way of comparison, the Ten Commandments, the Sermon on the Mount, the Israeli Declaration of Independence, and the United States Declaration of Independence, and the Gettysburg Address.

US readers - is anyone brave enough to try this exercise in Times Square?

UK readers - where are the twenty or thirty people who might try this in Hyde Park? Or on the steps of St Paul's?

I like the white flag idea myself. But around here liberals would take that as a sign that I was one of them. Many liberals around here already carry white flags...The are looking for someone to surrender too...

I'm sure a lot was said about Hitler's legitimate claims to Austria, the Sudetland, and then the rest of Czechoslovakia, Poland, etc. in the 1930's.

Obama sounds like a reincarnation of the same ilk of craven appeasers who failed Civilization back then.

His middle name ain't "Hussein"... it's:

Barack Chamberlain Obama.

Whatever happened to "Let us not fear to negotiate, but never negotiate from fear."? Negotiating with a sworn enemy has its advantages and its disadvantages.

For example, in order to negotiate, you must have someone to negotiate with. That person will need to contact someone to obtain instructions\approvals and condemnations. Those communications can be spied upon, linked to other individuals, and finances.

This counter-intelligence could lead to the identification of networks, supporters, logistic personnel(cells), financiers and intelligence networks and would be a major coup.

It is always better to analyze a situation than to respond with facts [not their words] than to respond to an ad homonym response. Belittling someone without understanding diminishes you, not the person you think you are chastising. And I say that in full knowledge that (a) you don't believe this and (b) most of you will now attack me.

One more small point. I myself had my doubts as to Senator Obama's support of the State of Israel. (Mostly because of an absence of rhetoric or debate on the subject). As it turns out, the gentleman is committed to the continuation of the state and has acted (deeds) in a positive means. So I suggest that people not be so hasty to use that phrase.