It does matter whether or not Obama was raised a Muslim

http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1212659716936&pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FShowFull

Barack Obama's half brother Malik said Thursday that if elected his brother will be a good president for the Jewish people, despite his Muslim background.

In an interview with Army Radio he expressed a special salutation from the Obamas of Kenya.

Seems to be some disagreement in the family.

I will readily accept that Obama was listed as a Muslim at the Indonesian school because his relatives were Muslims. Attending Koran class was a natural outgrowth of that.
But then, why the secrecy? Instead Obama could be using his own experience to show that people can learn Islam without being consumed by it. He was with that family for four years, wasn't he? Did he ever make the hajj?
Another question has come up about his birth. Where was he born? If he was born in Hawaii then where is the official record? Is he even eligible for the presidency?

Mm hmm. Mm hmm.

My, my my,where's the vaunted American Press Corps?

What's going on here?

Why isn't anyone in the MSM asking questions?

Anyone?

Is not the fact that the mainstream media in the US is not asking Obama to explain how his site can come up with statements which contradict the evidence Daniel Pipes has gathered indication enough that something is very wrong with the state of the media? How is it that people can take this without complaining? What has happened in the United States?

http://www.spectator.co.uk/melaniephillips/771896/princess-obama-derangement-syndrome.tht

Melanie Phillips steps in with her as usual excellent commentary.

Sorry there

Speed reading and didn't notice you already linked it.

"Princess Obama Derangement Syndrome" -- Melanie Phillips, author of "Londonistan."

So, can we shorten this to PODS?

May I inquire, however, why she uses "Princess?"

OK, I get it. I read Phillips' "Spectator" article. It's from "Princess Diana Derangement Syndrome."

Oh yeah, he's a Taqiyaa-Teller. no doubt.

"not because of some paranoid fantasy that Obama is a Manchurian candidate, a secret Muslim who will tell Americans on January 20, 2009, "Surprise! I'm imposing Sharia!" (I have never credited any of that nonsense) -- but because it raises questions about his honesty"

Its not a paranoid fantasy. I do believe he is a Manchurian candidate. Where is his mother, the Gramskian whore who 'reverted' to Islam by marrying a Kenyan Muslim? Why did she make sure to marry another Muslim after the first marriage went awry? We know Obama went to a madrassah and to the mosque when he was a kid, we know that he believes the Muhammadan war-cry 'Allahu akhbar' is the sweetest sound in the world, and we know that there are 20 years missing in his CV. We know that the black hatemongers 'church' of the ex-muslim Jeremiah Wright is closely associated with the Nation of Islam, their sermons are alike, their grievance theater is the same, and we know that Obama sat listening to this black fundamentalist white-people hating crapola for 20 years!

Give me ONE reason why he is not a Manchurian candidate. Give me one reason why he is not a Muslim. He lied so much about it that it makes my skin crawl!

I am convinced he is a plant. All the Muhammedans in the world back him. War is deceit: Musulmania is at war with us and we are being deceived.

Call me nuts, but prove me wrong. Just try!

So Obama takes being associated with Islam as a smear, how Islamophobic of him.

I have to agree with shiek.

Hussein may not be a deliberate "plant" as shiek says, but I definitely consider him to be Mohammedan more than anything else.

BTW, concerning the much-maligned "Paranoia":

"A paranoid is someone who knows a little of what's going on." --

William S. Burroughs
US author (1914 - 1997)

sheik & darcy,

I'm with you. Here's this guy who seemingly comes out of nowhere, wins the nomination quite handily against a strong and very well known opponent, and is absolutely adored by muslims.

If it walks like a duck, and talks like a duck.....

Obama's entire Kenyan family is muslim, not just Abongo. I saw a family photo taken when Barack visited them, four Islamic brothers and a number of aunts. The photo article said that Barack had to get used to the idea that all his brothers had different fathers.
Odinga, the rebel (muslim) leader said in an interview that he is Obama's cousin. 'Birds of a feather stick together'.
If Obama is not a stealth Manchurian candidate, he is the next best thing.

sheik & darcy,

I'm with you. Here's this guy who seemingly comes out of nowhere, wins the nomination quite handily against a strong and very well known opponent, and is absolutely adored by muslims.

If it walks like a duck, and talks like a duck.....

Posted by: ImNoDhimmi at June 13, 2008 9:54 AM

He beat the Clinton machine. That is pretty amazing for "a guy who comes out of nowhere."

Paranoia or not, there is something very scary about how this 46 year old man with the thinnest of resumes, is now the Democratic Nominee for President of the US. With his background of living overseas, his connections with (domestic and foreign) terrorists, sweetheart real estate deals from a now convicted associate, 20 year membership in a "church" preaching the most vile rascist garbage, no sight of any member of his white mother's family (are they all dead?), blood family connections to a certain tribe in Kenya, admitted drug use, etc. Yeah, sure, he would not even be able to pass a background check for a campus police job. It's not his former or non muslim religion that I care about, but everything else about him that worries me. Out of the blue comes this new "Obama the Messiah" to "remake this country." This country was born of revolution and survived one civil war. Perhaps the seeds of liberty laid down by our Founding Fathers needs some fresh dirt (and blood) thrown on them for some new growth.

"Obama the Messiah"

Uh, the anti-Christ comes first. That's Hussein.

"his half-brother Abongo ‘Roy’ Obama is a Luo activist in Kenya and a militant Muslim who argues that the black man must ‘liberate himself from the poisoning influences of European culture’ "

Sounds like this guy would be right at home in Chi-town's Trinity Church.

I just can't believe what's happening in WE and in America.

Someone wake me from my nightmare.

But the BBC says it would be a really good thing if he became President because muslims all over the world would start to like us!

Obama is a fraudulent Christian because he has never been baptized. He was born Muslims and you don't becomes Christian without a baptism. I know someone who has contacted religious editors of big Chicago newspapers and they tell him they have never gotten proof of baptism from this charlatan

I rate his wife Michelle as Christian and has raised the girls as such in Wright's racist church

Obama is wise guy. He's a complete fraud

______________
______________
______________

Everything you need to know about Obama and his religions ---->>>

http://www.theobamafile.com/ObamaReligion.htm

There is much confusion surrounding the date of Obama's conversion. Some newspaper reports place this event in 1988. On Fox News, March 14th, 2007, Obama himself places this even in 1992.

Nobody, except Obama knows if his conversion to Christianity is real or not. Although some reports and even Obama have referred to a "baptism", there doesn't appear to be any record of a baptism.

Chicago-based journalist, broadcaster and critic Andy Martin, when asked about Obama's baptism, wrote, "I have never been able to obtain any evidence that he was baptized, although I asked for those records."

It seems that Obama's conversion occurred when he answered one of Rev. Jeremiah A. Wright's altar calls by walking down the aisle of Trinity Church to make a formal commitment of his faith.

Cathleen Falsani, religion columnist for the Chicago Sun-Times, writes, "He (Obama) described his conversion experience in his mid-20s, how he walked the aisle at Trinity United Church of Christ one Sunday in a public affirmation of his private change of heart."

"his half-brother Abongo ‘Roy’ Obama is a Luo activist in Kenya and a militant Muslim who argues that the black man must ‘liberate himself from the poisoning influences of European culture’ and urges Barack to embrace his African Muslim heritage."

it's making Billy Carter and Roger Clinton look pretty righteous...i'n't it?

and for pp: His mother has died of cancer.

I did not know that "MO" could be copyrighted ...
http://ezralevant.com/2008/06/mohammed-pbuh-tm.html

See--the Obamanation of Desolation has appeared, a portent of foes surrounding and besieging Jerusalem! /sarc.

Many good points in the article and comments. If you are a person who votes for the lesser of two evils this is another reason to vote for McCain. Or we could project on Obama that he knows the harm that has come out of Saudia Arabia against East Africa and he will be the first East African with the power to stop it forever in history and will act on it.

Where does this idea that he is a committed Christian come from? A Christian is someone who believes Jesus' statement about himself - that he is the way, the truth and the life and that no one comes to the Father except through him. I can hardly imagine this man claiming such a thing.

Add to this the disgusting teachings of his church and his preacher that we've seen the past few months and I am lost as to what foundation there is for this claim.

Love the picture, (What, me worry??) such an intelligent look on his face...I bet this is the norm when he is out of camera range...

Never a Muslim? He's a committed Christian?

BO is big on CHANGE - and it's one thing to push for CHANGE moving forward, but quite another to push for CHANGING ones past.

And being a committed church member is not the same thing as being a committed Christian. Sounds like he needs to CHANGE that statement too.

Obama must go through twice as much shaving cream as the rest of us guys.

More faces than the average man.

Paranoia=extreme suspicion. Not always psychotic.

Sometimes a little paranoia is justified, sometimes it is required. When it comes to Obama, the evidence leans to required paranoia...

From above: 1) He has gone out of his way to support in Kenya Raila Odinga, head of the Luo tribe, who promised to introduce sharia law if elected.

I think I pointed out that Odinga claims to be Baracks cousin. At the very least, they are good friends.
If President Obama has say so over where that 800+ million...billion?, that's going to help the worlds poor, which country, and people do you think he will help first? Or if he is sly, second? Kenya maybe, especially if Odinga takes over about the same time?
Do I smell a potential sweet deal? After all, Kenya is a poor country, and all those muslim children need new shoes.
So why not Kenya, under Odinga first? And then, how much of this money is going to other muslim populated countries? They almost all qualify as poor and in desperate need of new shoes. Look at all the barefoot people in Indonesia for example. Even many Saudi's are poor and have no shoes, but no one in the royal family is shoe less.
Syria? Certainly. The poor there wrap their feet in rags. Syria needs some of that money as well.
This is the perfect opportunity to enrich the Ummah, and see to it that every muslim has shoes.
It's really hard to jihad barefoot, in most terrains, and weather conditions.
But I did know a man who wore no shoes by choice, even in the snow, I could never understand how he could take it, but I guess, 'no sense, no feeling'.
So if Obama is elected, it will be interesting to see who really does get these 'charitable contribution's', and why...

It's my understanding that in the Islamic world if one's father is a Muslim, irrespective of whether he is an active practitioner, his children are considered Muslim. Obama's father fits the bill here. Therefore, ....

As for Obama himself, it's hard to know exactly what he thinks on this matter or most any matter. He seems to say whatever is deemed expedient at the time, appears to have quite a dearth of general knowledge and certainly has demonstrated a horrible inability to assess people correctly. In short, he's your classic empty suit. Charming though.

His Grandmother is still alive in Hawaii but is refusing all interviews with the press.

That said he's a national security risk, period.

Given that he seems to like befriending Marxist radicals, ex-terrorists, crooks and Muslims of various sorts over the course of his life.

Then there's his 23 year attendance to a Church that preaches racism and Black Liberation Theology.

Add to it the stuff in his two books where he renounces his white half along with his grandparents, has not one good thing to say about the west or whites(whom he dislikes) and it adds to someone whose loyalties are not to this country.

From above: In short, he's your classic empty suit. Charming though.

Many serial killers and other psychopaths are charming, until they get the advantage, and then everything changes. I worked in Cal State Hospital system for a number of years, and I can say from personal experience, that most dangerous psychopaths are charming. Not all of them are physically assaultive, but they are capable of doing damage in other ways.
I don't know that Barack is a psychopath, but most politicians (and used car salesmen) are.
They operate with no remorse or guilt. So far I have seen little or no remorse coming from Obama about most anything, and he is innocent of all charges, they have been 'splained' away.
He is though, charming...

Obama's strategy has been to play all of his cards very close to his chest -- not letting his advisers in on quite everything -- and in playing for time. He knew that eventually the business about Rev. Wright \would come out. And come out it did, but only after most of the Democratic primaries were over, that is after they could do real damage. And he did not do as well after those revelations as he had before, so his gamble paid off.

It is the same with the mysterious presentation, or failure to come clean, about Islam in the life of Barack Obama.

He might have said: look, I was the son of a man who had himself converted to Islam. That man left my mother when I was two, and had no part in raising me. My mother married (or remarried) another man, this one an Indonesian Muslim, and as a child I lived in Indonesia, and was regarded by the outside world as a Muslim child. I hardly knew what that meant, and it is sill to attribute to me a knowledge of what that might mean, or indeed, a knowledge of the texts, and tenets, of Islam.

Yes, I was registered on the boooks of a Christian-run school, open to all, as a Muslim. Yes, I did attend a Koran class where I remember only that I made faces to keep alert. And that's about it. As an adult, I have always been a Christian. I regard the Christian message as the right one, or the right one for me. I find it extraordinary that anyone would attempt to attribute to me views I do not have, and views that I doubt I could be said to have had at the age of six, or eight, or ten."

Yes, he could long ago have come clean, just as he could long ago have come clean about Rev. Wright and the theology of Black Liberation, and attempted to distance himself long before he was forced to, because others even had a tape of Wright, and his political opponents were and continue, quite rightly, makng hay while the sun shines.

And for Barack Obama and hs advisers not to realize how potentially troublesome that Muslim background may be, both in misleading Muslims as to where he stands, so that there is no overconfidence and miscalculation on their part, based on the notion of their having a "secret friend" and perhaps even co-religionist in the White House, and in misleading non-Muslim leaders, who may be wary of sharing their apprehensions about, for example, the ggowing Muslim threat in Europe, and the desirability of a coordinated trans-Atlantic alliance directed at limiting that Muslim threat and depriving Muslims of the weapons they now use to further Jihad -- the Money Weapon, and campaigns of Da'wa, and demographic conquest -- wary, that is, of sharing those worries and making plans in cooperation with, a supposed Leader of the Western World whose true sympathies are not at all clear.

Here's an excerpt from a previous post that considers the problem:

"What about Obama? He is opposed to the war in Iraq, but his opposition does not appear to be of the right kind. After all, Noam Chomsky and Ward Churchill were also early opponents of the war, and their worldview is a dangerous one. It is clear that Obama has some kind of notion -- he's a sentimentalist like McCain -- that his very being the son of a Kenyan father, and his childhood years spent outside the United States, somehow make him particularly sensitive to, and particularly attractive to, others who would otherwise be unsympathetic to America. It's the kind of thing that puts one in mind of the teacher who choose books for students to read not on the basis of literary merit, but solely on the basis of the racial, ethnic, religious, or other background of the writers.

Barack Obama may be fascinated by his own heritage, and may have all sorts of racial or postracial or transracial considerations that may begin to fascinate others, but at this point, the most important foreign policy question is how to rescue Western Europe, the historic West, from growing and seemingly inexorable islamization. Can someone who looks to Kenya for a genetic memory that he has made much of, and to a few years as a child in Indonesia for what is essentially merely a variant on the sinclair-lewis babbittish "travel-is-so-broadening" idea, be expected to feel keenly what is happening to France, Italy, Great Britain, and all the other countries under assault, and where a new kind of transatlantic alliance is necessary, is indispensable? Will Barack Obama, with his declared interests, background, and affinities, feel this need as keenly as he should, as he must?

Barack Obama's "apostasy" is not the problem. His campaign has stated that he never considered himself to be a Muslim. Those who keep harping on the notion that he was once a Muslim at or around the age of ten, and that he must admit to this, are setting themselves up for ridicule. What is worrisome is not that he was once a Muslim, or still more absurdly, considered to be a "secret Muslim," but that he is ignorant of Islam, and has not made any effort to investigate it, and may be sentimental about it, based on personal history: his desire to identify with his absentee Kenyan father, the fact that his mother's second husband was also a Muslim; his childhood experience in Indonesia, which may make him think he knows something about Islam but was as idiosyncratic and unrepresentative an experience of Islam -- as was that "experience of Islam" that a much older, but not wiser, Ambassador Paul Wolfowitz had when he was the American ambassador in Indonesia. Like Obama, Wolfowitz did not understand what Islam was about, and took his experience there -- with everyone trying to woo and win him ("yes, we really hope to establish diplomatic relations with Israel") -- as normative. This naiveté about Islam was not undone, but was reinforced, by Wolfowitz’s Arab girlfriend. No doubt she a lady with all the right intentions, but as she was herself a would-be reformer or tamer of Islam, in that very role she offered false hopes, and misrepresented the meaning, and menace, of Islam.

The problem with Barack Obama's supposed Muslim connection is that he has not shown any inclination to ponder the nature of Islam at its essence, and not in the modified unrepresentative form in which he may have, fleetingly and personally, encountered it. And a greater problem is a lack of historical knowledge, and a naiveté (without the viciousness) about the world that rivals that of Jimmy Carter, and a trust in such obviously disturbing "advisers" as the vicious, and naively realpolitiking, Zbigniew Brzezinski.

There's plenty to worry about with Barack Obama and his more-than-sufficient display, so far, of all the wrong foreign-policy instincts, including his dreamy belief that meeting and talking with representatives of Iran would do some good. Some say, what could be the harm in merely meeting and talking? The harm could be great. It would justify, it would dignify, it would give a boost in the minds of its own disaffected subjects, to the Islamic Republic of Iran. It would encoil us in useless, protracted discussions with those who are past masters at deception and deliberate delay, and who treat such meetings not as occasions for the exchange of views that we are expected to believe have not already, and repeatedly, been exchanged, but rather as instruments of war: the propaganda war that Muslims engage in, and we, alas, do not."

[Posted by Hugh at May 20, 2008]

Where's Obama's other grannie?

With his background of living overseas, his connections with (domestic and foreign) terrorists, sweetheart real estate deals from a now convicted associate, 20 year membership in a "church" preaching the most vile rascist garbage, no sight of any member of his white mother's family (are they all dead?), blood family connections to a certain tribe in Kenya, admitted drug use, etc. Yeah, sure, he would not even be able to pass a background check for a campus police job. It's not his former or non muslim religion that I care about, but everything else about him that worries me.
Posted by: HOV D

No white grannie anywhere, no interviews, no white relatives. I looked and looked… What gives? This is very strange.

Obama's strategy has been to play all of his cards very close to his chest -- not letting his advisers in on quite everything -- and in playing for time. He knew that eventually the business about Rev. Wright \would come out. And come out it did, but only after most of the Democratic primaries were over, that is after they could do real damage. And he did not do as well after those revelations as he had before, so his gamble paid off.

It is the same with the mysterious presentation, or failure to come clean, about Islam in the life of Barack Obama.

He might have said: look, I was the son of a man who had himself converted to Islam. That man left my mother when I was two, and had no part in raising me. My mother married (or remarried) another man, this one an Indonesian Muslim, and as a child I lived in Indonesia, and was regarded by the outside world as a Muslim child. I hardly knew what that meant, and it is sill to attribute to me a knowledge of what that might mean, or indeed, a knowledge of the texts, and tenets, of Islam.

Yes, I was registered on the boooks of a Christian-run school, open to all, as a Muslim. Yes, I did attend a Koran class where I remember only that I made faces to keep alert. And that's about it. As an adult, I have always been a Christian. I regard the Christian message as the right one, or the right one for me. I find it extraordinary that anyone would attempt to attribute to me views I do not have, and views that I doubt I could be said to have had at the age of six, or eight, or ten."

Yes, he could long ago have come clean, just as he could long ago have come clean about Rev. Wright and the theology of Black Liberation, and attempted to distance himself long before he was forced to, because others even had a tape of Wright, and his political opponents were and continue, quite rightly, makng hay while the sun shines.

And for Barack Obama and hs advisers not to realize how potentially troublesome that Muslim background may be, both in misleading Muslims as to where he stands, so that there is no overconfidence and miscalculation on their part, based on the notion of their having a "secret friend" and perhaps even co-religionist in the White House, and in misleading non-Muslim leaders, who may be wary of sharing their apprehensions about, for example, the ggowing Muslim threat in Europe, and the desirability of a coordinated trans-Atlantic alliance directed at limiting that Muslim threat and depriving Muslims of the weapons they now use to further Jihad -- the Money Weapon, and campaigns of Da'wa, and demographic conquest -- wary, that is, of sharing those worries and making plans in cooperation with, a supposed Leader of the Western World whose true sympathies are not at all clear.

Here's an excerpt from a previous post that considers the problem:

"What about Obama? He is opposed to the war in Iraq, but his opposition does not appear to be of the right kind. After all, Noam Chomsky and Ward Churchill were also early opponents of the war, and their worldview is a dangerous one. It is clear that Obama has some kind of notion -- he's a sentimentalist like McCain -- that his very being the son of a Kenyan father, and his childhood years spent outside the United States, somehow make him particularly sensitive to, and particularly attractive to, others who would otherwise be unsympathetic to America. It's the kind of thing that puts one in mind of the teacher who choose books for students to read not on the basis of literary merit, but solely on the basis of the racial, ethnic, religious, or other background of the writers.

Barack Obama may be fascinated by his own heritage, and may have all sorts of racial or postracial or transracial considerations that may begin to fascinate others, but at this point, the most important foreign policy question is how to rescue Western Europe, the historic West, from growing and seemingly inexorable islamization. Can someone who looks to Kenya for a genetic memory that he has made much of, and to a few years as a child in Indonesia for what is essentially merely a variant on the sinclair-lewis babbittish "travel-is-so-broadening" idea, be expected to feel keenly what is happening to France, Italy, Great Britain, and all the other countries under assault, and where a new kind of transatlantic alliance is necessary, is indispensable? Will Barack Obama, with his declared interests, background, and affinities, feel this need as keenly as he should, as he must?

Barack Obama's "apostasy" is not the problem. His campaign has stated that he never considered himself to be a Muslim. Those who keep harping on the notion that he was once a Muslim at or around the age of ten, and that he must admit to this, are setting themselves up for ridicule. What is worrisome is not that he was once a Muslim, or still more absurdly, considered to be a "secret Muslim," but that he is ignorant of Islam, and has not made any effort to investigate it, and may be sentimental about it, based on personal history: his desire to identify with his absentee Kenyan father, the fact that his mother's second husband was also a Muslim; his childhood experience in Indonesia, which may make him think he knows something about Islam but was as idiosyncratic and unrepresentative an experience of Islam -- as was that "experience of Islam" that a much older, but not wiser, Ambassador Paul Wolfowitz had when he was the American ambassador in Indonesia. Like Obama, Wolfowitz did not understand what Islam was about, and took his experience there -- with everyone trying to woo and win him ("yes, we really hope to establish diplomatic relations with Israel") -- as normative. This naiveté about Islam was not undone, but was reinforced, by Wolfowitz’s Arab girlfriend. No doubt she a lady with all the right intentions, but as she was herself a would-be reformer or tamer of Islam, in that very role she offered false hopes, and misrepresented the meaning, and menace, of Islam.

The problem with Barack Obama's supposed Muslim connection is that he has not shown any inclination to ponder the nature of Islam at its essence, and not in the modified unrepresentative form in which he may have, fleetingly and personally, encountered it. And a greater problem is a lack of historical knowledge, and a naiveté (without the viciousness) about the world that rivals that of Jimmy Carter, and a trust in such obviously disturbing "advisers" as the vicious, and naively realpolitiking, Zbigniew Brzezinski.

There's plenty to worry about with Barack Obama and his more-than-sufficient display, so far, of all the wrong foreign-policy instincts, including his dreamy belief that meeting and talking with representatives of Iran would do some good. Some say, what could be the harm in merely meeting and talking? The harm could be great. It would justify, it would dignify, it would give a boost in the minds of its own disaffected subjects, to the Islamic Republic of Iran. It would encoil us in useless, protracted discussions with those who are past masters at deception and deliberate delay, and who treat such meetings not as occasions for the exchange of views that we are expected to believe have not already, and repeatedly, been exchanged, but rather as instruments of war: the propaganda war that Muslims engage in, and we, alas, do not."

[Posted by Hugh at May 20, 2008]

Hugh's post above addresses the very serious situation which faces Western Civilization, particularly Western Europe, because of Islamic penetration of it. I rather doubt Obama cares about this because being the politically correct, multicultural kind of guy he is, he surely has concluded that Western Civilization is no better, indeed probably worse, than any other civilization or culture. Ditto for his wife, his former pastor, that enlightened Catholic priest, Michael Pfleger, William Ayres and a whole host of other folks Obama has smoozed with. Oh yeah, how could anyone conclude Obama's not the right person to hold the most powerful office in the world? Why, to do so, you'd have to be a narrow-minded rube, now wouldn't you?

I think much of the fog of Obama's dubious associations and ability to disassociate himself with vague reasons like I didn't know or just throw them under the bus is a result of the mind-FK he inherited as a boy trying to deal with abandonment issues (1 mother and 2 fathers moving on with their lives without him) I think this requires him to see himself as a great uniter and a bridge builder always reaching for loftier positions. I don't think he is capable of understanding what all his uniter rhetoric really means. He doesn't have uncommon abilities to unite, he just has to believe he does. I'm no expert but I'll bet there's plenty of treatments available for his condition. One of them would not be becoming President of the United States.

This is an outright slanderous smear against Obama. Read the links on Pipes' website, folks. He took quotes out of context to twist the evidence.

Obama went to an elite, secular public school. Obama was only registered as a Muslim because his father was Muslim. While Obama went to Islam classes, he was SIMULTANEOUSLY attending CATHOLIC classes. He went to the local mosque with his father, but spent most of his time playing sports outside with friends.

In short, he was never "raised as a Muslim", not even for a few days. For a few years he was an Islamo-Catholic, if such a thing exists, but never a Muslim.

Raila Odinga? You can not be serious! During the time of the New Hampshire primaries, everyone was making statements in support of Odinga, because his opponent President Kibaki had just rigged a the election against him, and was beating up on opposition protesters. Odinga campaigned on an antipoverty platform. The idea he was instituting Sharia is refuted here:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/7115387.stm

What difference does it mske if Obama is a Christian or a Muslim, He sat in a church for 20 years that is as morally depraved as any Mosque.

Spiritually, the man has more in common Muslims than with any understanding of Christianity I've ever had.

When I first started reading this piece of info. I wanted to say something like;

I will give him the benefit of the doubt as far as the first two statements concerning his muslimness. But a commented Christian he is not and is lying about it.

He is lying about all of it. Oh, I forgot he is a politician.

Nailing this guy down is like nailing jello to the wall. If you can't figure out what he stands this leaves me more then un-trusting for the most important office in the world.

"While Obama went to Islam classes," -Shlomo

No United States Presidential candidate should have ANY "Islam classes."

Concerning the photo of Hussein in Mohammedan garb, complete with turban: One picture speaks a thousand words.

Maybe it's just the camera angle but Obama looks like a child playing dress up.

Shlomo_Michael: Daniel Pipes has not twisted any evidence. You're the twister. And you're clueless, as is Obama on sundry topics. Try addressing the SPECIFIC issue that if one's father is a Muslim, regardless of whether that father is devout, his progeny are considered Muslim by the Islamic world (and it doesn't matter a whit that a kid of his would attend some Catholic class).

In any contest where veracity is the issue, sir, I will take Dr. Pipes' assessment over yours in a heartbeat. It seems you're prepared to defend this empty suit, Obama, no matter what. Pathetic.

There's a difference between being a Muslim and being listed as a Muslim. If Obama was the child of a nominally (apparently not observant) Muslim family in a country in which non-Muslims are persecuted, it makes sense that he would be listed in school records as a Muslim. At the same time, if asked if he was a Muslim, he might naturally consider that to be a question about his beliefs and would therefore answer no, he was not a Muslim, if he never held Muslim beliefs. I don't see that he is hiding anything here or that he has said anything false. He has been perfectly frank about his father being a Muslim.

Fred wrote:

But the BBC says it would be a really good thing if he became President because muslims all over the world would start to like us!
...............................

Oh, Fred, you are so right! But it's not just Muslims who would really, really like us--it's everybody in the whole world!

There was a ludicrously hagiographical article by Kevin Sullivan in The Washington Post a little over a week ago, when Obama clinched the Democratic primaries.

The article is titled "Obama's Victory Resonates Worldwide". Here are a few excerpts:

"A widow in New Delhi, India, says, "A black president of the U.S. will mean that there will be more American tolerance for people who are different". As perhaps the most diverse country in the history of the world, this is certainly a lesson we need to learn.

"In Kenya, Obama's victory was greeted with unvarnished glee. A shoeshiner in Kisumu says, "When he becomes president, he will definitely put in place support for us in Kenya."

"A water vendor in the same town says, "Obama's victory means I might one day get to America and share the dreams I have always heard about. He will open doors for us there in the name of African brotherhood." These men seem to think that Obama will be wonderful for them because he will engage in corrupt African-style patronage. Just what the world needs more of!

But he's popular in Europe, also. The German government's coordinator for German-North American Cooperation says, in a true spirit of inclusiveness, "Germany is Obama country"--which shows they've developed an ear for empty English-language slogans, if nothing else.

"It could help to reduce anti-U.S. sentiment and even turn it around because of what he represents", says a political science professor at Yonsei Univerity in Seoul, South Korea, without ever quite saying what it is that Obama does represent.

"In Latin America, Obama's recent declation that he would meet with presidents Hugo Chavez of Venezuela and Raul Castro of Cuba has been widely welcomed as a break from Bush policy." Add in Mahmoud Ahmadinijad of Iran and Bashar al-Assad of Syria, and I think we've got some nice new allies!

There only seems to be one small bit of negativity in this global love fest. Of course, it's mean old Israel, where--gasp!--McCain seems to be somewhat more popular than Obama.

"Although no one will admit it, Israeli leaders are worried about Obama," said Eytan Gilboa, a political scientist at Bar-Ilan University in Israel. "The feeling is that this is the time to be tough in foreign policy toward the Middle East, and he's going to be soft."

What a killjoy!

gravenimage: Fine post. My compliments. It helps to confirm that most of the world is an idiot. Meanwhile, stateside, we need leaders who are far more concerned about being respected (and feared) than liked.

Western liberals remain completely clueless here (none more than Obama, although Gordon Brown would give the guy form Illinois good competition for this dubious distinction). They're far more interested in things like mutual affection and not alienating fellow clueless folk. Holy hell and little catfishes, Western Civilization could expire because of a combination of rank, liberal sentimentalism and Islamic hegemonic impulses. Is this a mad world or what? I need a beer.

Rob, you may be right, but, without the therapy, he's even more dangerous. But, then again, we all have issues, but, then again, we aren't in line for the presidency of the USA. Wonder what that means?

I'm now listening to Debussy's Clair de lune. I can't think of any piece of music composed in the islamic world that compares to it. Its beauty and most of all its peacefulness and in between all things indescribable. This is evidence enough of what separates us. Destroy that edifice and you have conquered the western world. As I listen to it, I can only think...abandon this one thing and you have abandoned humanity.

Signing up for school at five - in an Islamic country how much choice do you have?

It is like in Egypt - if your father is (or was) Muslim than you are considered Muslim - and your children have to sign up for Islamic classes at school -

in this case Obama would have been nominally Muslim – in the Islamic world.

Though to join a church - to prepare for the eventuality of 9/11 - seven years ago - and then of winning the needle hole - slim change of becoming the presidential nominee - 20 years later - is a conspiracy too far.

In Egypt people have to take their children into hiding and live undocumented lives (i.e. no papers) - just because their father or even grandfather was a Muslim - as under the law no one is allowed to leave the religion of Islam.

It is said that Barack Obama's mom had an aversion to religion - which might explain why his sister - is now a Buddhist.

Boris Johnson - the mayor of London's great grandfather was Turkish – and as he said had studied the Koran. But Boris has married a half Hindu/Sheikh and his children are probably Christian. Boris and Obama have no doubt read the Koran and rejected it -

It is likely Barack Obama would not have been in this position if – he had been sworn into office on the Koran.

What is open for question is what his views are?

Polls in Europe show that Obama is liked.

The speech to the Jewish lobby of a one Jerusalem and maintaining Israel as a Jewish state - was telling - perhaps of his Christian views.

In his speech on race – he said you can't talk about the Palestinians without talking about the culture of hatred that is prevalent in the Palestinian psyche.

What this sounds like - is that he wants the Muslims to stand up and take responsibility for their actions - which goes against the culture of pity that the Muslims thrive on.

If Obama were president - what I could imagine would change - is America's image in the world – with the increase in diplomacy - and that would be important - but not much else - because I think he is a team player.

I believe he would be right to stir clear of Muslim causes that promote Islamic self pity – namely the Islamophobia agenda - and would look to dealing with Muslims in even handed manner. In regards to the Middle East he has already mentioned the culture of hate - so it seems clear that a significant part of the onus is going to be placed on the behaviour of Muslims themselves.

I am concerned about any individual that receives the support of the majority of the whacko dhimmicrat politicians currently in office..really.

Paranoia=extreme suspicion. Not always psychotic.

Sometimes a little paranoia is justified, sometimes it is required. When it comes to Obama, the evidence leans to required paranoia...

Posted by: duh_swami at June 13, 2008 12:57 PM

All of Kafka's characters are completely justified in their paranoia. Particularly, Josef K in "The Trial."

Here's my quotation from yesterday again:

"A paranoid is someone who knows a little of what's going on." --

William S. Burroughs
US author (1914 - 1997)

Posted by: darcy at June 13, 2008 9:52 AM

Our suspicions about Mohammedans are not based on delusions and irrationality, like Hitler with the Jews.

Ours are based on:

1. Islamic Aggressive Expansionist history.

2. The Qur'an and it's eternal edict to "Kill the Infidel" until the whole world is "for Allah."

3. Life of Mohammed, an obvious fraud. No real Prophet of God mass-murders, tortures, rapes, steals, has sex with 12 wives, as well as sex with a 9-year-old child.

4. Knowledge of pagan Arabian mythology and archeological finds proving that "allah" is nothing but a pagan rock deity, and as such, doesn't exist.

Anyone care to refute the above as "delusions and irrationality?"

And Josef K was both arrested and executed, never knowing why. He was RIGHT to be paranoid.

A committed Christian that supports partial birth abortion.

That's a new one on me.

Obama calls himself a Christian because it is convenient for him to do so.

Voting for this guy is just asking to be put in the poorhouse, or worse. He's obviously more concerned with third world countries than he is the United States. (See his $845 billion Senate bill).

Obama wants re-distribution of wealth, so that the lazy asses can have some of the money that YOU earned.

He's a sham, a fraud, a racist, and a blatant liar.