And meanwhile neither one fully understands the Islamic supremacist agenda or the various mechanisms of the stealth jihad. "McCain Camp Hits Obama for Terrorism Remarks: Praise of 1993 World Trade Center Bombers Prosecution 'Naïve' and 'Dangerous,' Campaign Says," by Jake Tapper for ABC News, June 17 (thanks to all who sent this in):
TAYLOR, MICH., June 17, 2008 — Supporters of Sen. John McCain seized upon comments about terrorism made by Sen. Barack Obama in an interview with ABC News Monday, saying his approving words about the prosecution of the 1993 World Trade Center bombings indicated a naïve, pre-9/11, and dangerous view of how to combat terrorism."Senator Obama is a perfect manifestation of a September 10th mindset," declared Randy Scheunemann, the McCain campaign's director of foreign policy and national security.
James Woolsey, CIA director during the Clinton administration, said Obama was advocating "an extremely dangerous and extremely naïve approach toward terrorism." [...]
Asked during that interview how Obama could be so sure that certain controversial domestic anti-terrorism policies instituted by the Bush administration were not crucial to the protection of U.S. citizens, Obama said that he didn't oppose all the efforts per se, but that "it is my firm belief that we can track terrorists, we can crack down on threats against the United States, but we can do so within the constraints of our Constitution."
Obama then cited "the example of Guantanamo. What we know is that, in previous terrorist attacks -- for example, the first attack against the World Trade Center -- we were able to arrest those responsible, put them on trial. They are currently in U.S. prisons, incapacitated. And the fact that the administration has not tried to do that has created a situation where not only have we never actually put many of these folks on trial, but we have destroyed our credibility when it comes to rule of law all around the world, and given a huge boost to terrorist recruitment in countries that say, 'Look, this is how the United States treats Muslims.'"
Obama concluded that the detainee camp at Guantanamo -- which both Obama, D-Ill., and McCain, R-Ariz., have advocated closing -- "is an example of something that was unnecessary. We could have done the exact same thing, but done it in a way that was consistent with our laws."
Woolsey argued that Obama "is suggesting that we do everything through the law enforcement system," which, he argued, "is exactly what failed in 1990s."
The Clinton administration "proceeded with 100% law enforcement focus," Woolsey said. "It did not work." Terrorists such as Khalid Sheikh Mohammed and Osama bin Laden were indicted and went on to continue wreaking havoc with the bombings of the U.S. Embassies in Kenya and Tanzania, the U.S.S. Cole, and the September 11 terrorist attacks, said the former CIA head.
Former Navy Secretary Jonathan Lehman, a member of the 9/11 Commission, said that the commission's investigations "certainly made clear that the way the criminal justice system as applied to the perpetrators of the 1993 bombing was a material cause of the greater tragedy of 9/11 because it was treated as a law enforcement issue."...
Lehman also said that the cost of opening the U.S. criminal justice system to enemy combatants in Guantanamo Bay would be prohibitive, since it cost taxpayers more than $100 million to prosecute the seven defendants in the 1993 case. Obama's comments, Lehman said, indicate "a very deep, first, ignorance of the facts and a very, very dangerous policy."
'Politics of Fear'
Predicted Scheunemann, "I have no doubt that we'll hear in the course of the day that the Obama campaign will say we're practicing the 'politics of fear.' And the reality is that what Sen. Obama's statement reflects last night is that he's advocating a policy of delusion that ignores the failed approach of the 1990s that allowed Al Qaeda to thrive and prosper unmolested and that policy clearly made America less safe and more vulnerable."
Obama's top surrogates held a conference call with reporters Wednesday to defend the presumptive Democratic nominee and blast McCain's foreign policy record.
"We voted for war against al Qaeda," said Sen. John Kerry, D-Mass., on the call, "But Saddam Hussein and Iraq had nothing to do with Al Qaeda, nothing to do with the attacks of 9/11. So this is a completely fraudulent, fear tactic, scare tactic, play to the lowest common denominator strategy by John McCain and his colleagues."
"John McCain is Washington's biggest supporter of the worst policy decision of our generation," Kerry said of McCain's support for the Iraq War. "He has failed to learn the lessons of 9/11. We are paying for that failure today. He is the candidate of the Iraq war mindset. A mindset that completely misunderstands and dangerously underestimates the threats of the 21st century, of war-fighting and terror."
Someone send obama a copy of Andrew McCarthy's book, Willful Blindness, which is about this same issue...using litigation against jihadis who attacked the WTC in 1993 as if the actions they perpetrated are criminal acts only...
Do a search on the Nichols trial in Atlanta.
For those who do not remember, he is the guy who, in 2005, took a gun from an officer in a Fulton county courtroom and killed a judge and others on security camera and in front of what should be impeccable witnesses. Millions of taxpayers' $$$ and they haven't even seated a jury yet!
Obama is such a good fund raiser, perhaps he could raise the money to pay for these trials.
The defendants in World Trade Center case were treated as criminals, to be charged merely the way a bank robber or a murderer might be treated, with all the rights that the criminal justice system affords, and were not treated, as they should have been, as enemy combatants in a world-wide and never-ending (because based on immutable texts and tenets) war. The lawyers for those defendants were able to used discovery to find out the names of 200 people who were being watched, and that list eventually made its way to Osama Bin Laden and his cronies. The government was also forced to declare that it had been monitoring cell phone communications of members of Al Qaeda, and the use of such phones by Al Qaeda members then was severely curtailed. What more does one need to know to understand how dangerously ill informed those who claim that the criminal justice system is adequate to the task turn out to be -- and that includes someone, a younger man who has had almost no experience at the federal level, and spent twenty years in community organizing, without any apparent interest in world history, or in the kinds of things that can sometimes make up for lack of experience if they are studied in appropriate depth and breadth. This is what is lacking in the background of Barack Obama, and again and again his statements, while delivered with all sorts of solemn brow-furrowed judiciousness -- and with that imitation of a certain kind of HLS, possib ly charlie-nessen, austin-hall hands-in-pockets ostentatious thoughtfulness always on parade -- oh, it amuses, and it may impress the vulgus mobile, but the rest of us will need a display of real thoughtfulness, and real knowledge.
" Somebody send Obama a copy of Andrew McCarthy's book"
above posting
Obama doesn't have time to read, he is too busy practising his rythmic, bouncy, "look at me" walk and how to take off one's coat so as to induce swooning among the believers.
Hugh wrote:
. . . The lawyers for those defendants were able to used discovery to find out the names of 200 people who were being watched, and that list eventually made its way to Osama Bin Laden and his cronies. The government was also forced to declare that it had been monitoring cell phone communications of members of Al Qaeda, and the use of such phones by Al Qaeda members then was severely curtailed.
............
Absolutely. The Nuremburg trials never could have been held under these conditions. Also, if it has been difficult to find witnesses to testify in organized crime cases--and God knows it has, with witness intimidation and threat of death--how much more difficult will it be to find witnesses who are willing to testify in open court against jihad terrorists?
Many of these witnesses, and their entire families, will be opening themselves up to the most barbaric retribution. Only the bravest and most principled people will stand up when it seems likely that one might be beheaded in the street by any number of fanatics in response.
from above:
And meanwhile neither one fully understands the Islamic supremacist agenda or the various mechanisms of the stealth jihad.
.............
This is true. And yet, I think it is the case, despite the severe limits of his understanding, and his ill-considered support for the war in Iraq, that McCain is considerably "less wrong" in this matter than is Obama.
McCain knows that we are facing a serious enemy, and he is aware that the global jihad represents more than just a spike in crime. With Guiliani out--who was not perfectly informed, either--I still think he's the best bet in a less than ideal field.
Predicted Scheunemann, "I have no doubt that we'll hear in the course of the day that the Obama campaign will say we're practicing the 'politics of fear.'
The problem has been we are not using fear enough to get the point across to the American people. This is a dangerous enemy we are facing (or refusing to face) and we should be afraid. Fear is an emotion that prompts a fight or flight response. Since they are coming here, we can't use the flight option so we need to fight. And we won't until the fear is realized at every level of our society. And once this country decides it's time to fight, the battle ends fairly quickly.
Denial is not just a river in Egypt.
The two party system has once again generated its worst. Using the concept of specific gravity the parties have scraped the bottom of the barrel and came up with the best they could do...These two guys. If not so serious, this would make a good plot for the return of the 'Odd Fellows'.
One into serious yielding, and the other into serious resisting. Both will lead us on perilous journeys, but in different directions.
I really don't care to be lead on any perilous journeys, especially by people I know were scraped off the bottom of the bucket, the thick part of specific gravity. McCain is more realistic (not enough) about terror and Islam, but the first time he kisses and Saudi's or prays in a mosque, I will change my mind about that...
The US had an opportunity to get its hands on Osama bin Laden after the first WTC bombing and before the second. Sudan offered him up but Clinton said no, fearing he didn't have the legal justification. So much for law enforcement.
The Nuremburg trials didn't take place until after hostilities had ended. Until then, those who were caught remained in legal limbo. They were prisoners. No one knew when they were caught how long WWII would last. The argument that they've been held for six years without a trial belies the circumstances. They weren't picked up on Main Street to be questioned about a bank robbery. They started a war. In addition, they were illegal combatants. It's up to us to finish what they started. We should have no qualms about holding these killers for as long as necessary. If they want the war to end then they know what to do.
"The US had an opportunity to get its hands on Osama bin Laden after the first WTC bombing and before the second. Sudan offered him up but Clinton said no, fearing he didn't have the legal justification. So much for law enforcement."
Posted by PMK
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Great point. I had almost forgotten about that.
Fast forward to present day, the enemy consistently exploits western values and laws. They know how to manipulate our system. And they know our vulnerabilities.
To paraphrase a Chinese proverb, if you don't change the road that you are on, you'll end up where you are going.
We had better alter our road (i.e. system) in dealing with this enemy.
John McCain has his limitations to be sure, not the least of which is that he doesn't properly understand Islam (how many American politicians do?------a handful), but compared to Barack Obama he's an Andrew Jackson. At least McCain understands we're in a war. Obama views this War on Islamic Terror not even as a war but merely a criminal investigatory matter. Disturbing to think this empty suit is so very close to becoming our next President.
"A mindset that completely misunderstands and dangerously underestimates the threats of the 21st century, of war-fighting and terror." John Kerry.
Okay, Senator Kerry, can you explain how we are to deal with the "threats of the 21st century, of war fighting and terror"??? HOw do you fight "terror" by treatinf these terrorists like a common criminal? We are not fighting the armed forces of a soverign country(ies) but individuals from around the world attacking us for some ideological cause and not under any formal declaration of war by their government as they lack a government.
And imagine having these "enemy combatants" in our federal prison system? The recruiting of converts, the special handling by staff and associated costs, the threats to staff, etc. One of the 1993 WTC defendants attacked a Bureau of Prison correctional officer with part of a comb-almost killed him.
To perceive the Islamist supremicist agenda and the violence on America as a criminal act, rather than an act of war, fogs the proper defense needed to subdue the enemy. To ignore the religous Islamic ideology that inspires the war blinds us from defeating the enemy. American leaders will have to invade the confines of Islam if we are ever to defeat this enemy but few of our polticos have the perception or the guts to do it.
I'd much rather have someone who knows we are at war, than someone who thinks that we are dealing with a few criminals.
As for the "politics of fear", if you are not afraid by now; you are dangerously ignorant.