Enforcing Sharia of his own accord. "Christian preachers face arrest in Birmingham," by David Harrison in the Telegraph, June 1 (thanks to all who sent this in):
A police community support officer ordered two Christian preachers to stop handing out gospel leaflets in a predominantly Muslim area of Birmingham.The evangelists say they were threatened with arrest for committing a "hate crime" and were told they risked being beaten up if they returned. The incident will fuel fears that "no-go areas" for Christians are emerging in British towns and cities, as the Rt Rev Michael Nazir-Ali, the Bishop of Rochester, claimed in The Sunday Telegraph this year.
Arthur Cunningham, 48, and Joseph Abraham, 65, both full-time evangelical ministers, have launched legal action against West Midlands Police, claiming the officer infringed their right to profess their religion.
Mr Abraham said: "I couldn't believe this was happening in Britain. The Bishop of Rochester was criticised by the Church of England recently when he said there were no-go areas in Britain but he was right; there are certainly no-go areas for Christians who want to share the gospel."...
The preachers, both ministers in Birmingham, were handing out leaflets on Alum Rock Road in February when they started talking to four Asian youths.
A police community support officer (PCSO) interrupted the conversation and began questioning the ministers about their beliefs.
They said when the officer realised they were American, although both have lived in Britain for many years, he launched a tirade against President Bush and the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan.
Mr Cunningham said: "I told him that this had nothing to do with the gospel we were preaching but he became very aggressive.
"He said we were in a Muslim area and were not allowed to spread our Christian message. He said we were committing a hate crime by telling the youths to leave Islam and said that he was going to take us to the police station."
The preacher refused to give the PCSO his address because he felt the officer's manner was "threatening and intimidating".
The ministers claim he also advised them not to return to the area. As he walked away, the PCSO said: "You have been warned. If you come back here and get beaten up, well you have been warned".
West Midlands Police, who refused to apologise, said the incident had been "fully investigated" and the officer would be given training in understanding hate crime and communication.
Was this policeman a Muslim? Surely this is the most important piece of information here. If he was, then he does not represent British law and order but the authority of the umma and therefore should be sacked immediately. I hope these two take the West Midlands Police to the cleaners. This is the same police force that accused Channe 4 of racial aggravation for its report 'undercover mosques'.
Yes it is always training and more training, however, I wonder is there any training for those who beat up priests about hate crime? I wonder is there training for those who create "no-go areas"? Looks like segregation is back in the UK. Although it is coming from a different angle. It really is a strange world. The Islamic bigotry and hatred for Kafir is showing.
Birmingham, the indigenous city of Muslims in Britain, except, of course for London. Muslims will remember this day in Birmingham as an historic day. It will be celebrated for decades and remembered.
Andrew Boston has an interesting story
Andrew Bostom on cleansing non-Muslims in UK
"Britain: “The process of ‘cleansing’ Muslim-majority areas of non-Muslims has already begun.”
January 13th, 2008 by Andrew Bostom "
"Some commentators fear that the aim of…groups such as Tablighi Jamaat, Hizb-ut-Tahir and the Deobandi sect is to drive non-Muslims out of areas such as Dewsbury, in West Yorkshire, and Oldham along with neighbourhoods in Luton, Leicester, Birmingham and Leyton, in east London.
The…Deobandi movement, which produced the Taliban in Afghanistan and some of whose British followers preach hatred of Christians, Hindus and Jews, is thought to be in control of almost half of Britain’s 1,350 mosques, reports claim. "
So a couple of Christians can't hand out Christian literature in a Christian country, but Muslims can walk the streets of London with placards calling for the murder of anyone who upsets them.
PCSO are not police officers, they are half trained civilians doing basic police patrolling. They have limited powers of arrest. Their remit is littering and anti social behaviour.
"A police community support officer"
I wonder if this is like what they are trying to establish in Miami with the Nation of Islam community support officers?
I feel it is. This person is not even a police officer probably, and the Brits have basically given Muslims the power to enforce their own laws and whatever they wish to enoforce in their 'areas'.
Very disturbing...and we all know what side the police are on, I mean they tried to prosecute journalists for exposing Muslim hate preachers!!!
Ahh, the unhumble PCSO. They've been put out on the streets to give people the impression that the police are still out there when the reality is that they're mostly ensconced in their regional headquarters, waiting for the big shouts so they can rush around in their flashy cars and look cool.
They call them a lot of things. They have limited powers and an inflated sense of what they can actually do but, because they look like police officers, people tend to assume that's what they are.
The fact that it's West Midlands police isn't lost on me either. They're the ones that tried to get Channel 4 prosecuted for that documentary on hate preaching in mosques.
What I'd like to know was whether this PCSO was "asian". That's PC talk for Muslim if you're wondering... if he was, then it's absolutely not a surprise. The muzzies have practically taken over institutions and organisations like this on some cities to run them as they see fit. Bradford, for example.
Whatever happened to capturing real criminals? Seems like its too much like hard work for our plods, and so easy targets like motorists doing 33 mph in a 30 mph zone, and people dropping leaflets through letter boxes is more like it for these jobsworths.
The fact that they said nothing about the religion or appearance of the officer makes me certain he was Muslim. Also, isn't an officer threatening a citizen with being beaten a crime?
""He said we were in a Muslim area and were not allowed to spread our Christian message. "
THis is heard throughout Muslim lands and we continue to allow Muslims into the Christian lands. Ban Muslim Immigration.
West Midland Police again. Remember them? The louts who tried to scare the (very left-wing) broadcaster Channel 4 out of telling what they had found out about British mosques? And before that, the police whose whole Serious Crimes Squad had to be disbanded and started over again because of routine criminal behaviour going right to the top, including torture, false arrest, forging confessions, which eventually resulted in literally hundreds of convictions being reversed?
Yeah. That West Midland Police.
I have a suggestion. Why not ship the lot of them to the Emirates or somewhere, where their kind of policing would be at home, and start rebuilding a police force in Birmingham completely from scratch? It seems evident that the rot in the current one goes beyond healing.
They should stage an event where the dress as muslims and hand out leaflets at church parking lots after mass, just to point out the double standard.
That policeman is certainly a muslim. He consider that his city is already a "Dar Al Islam"!! He actually applies the Sharia.
Britain should defend freedom of speech and protect the possibility for evangelical preachers to speak about their religion.
I am not an Evangelical, but I admire the courage of these guys.
A robust set of standard powers for Community Support Officers (CSOs) is to be introduced to help tackle low level crime and anti-social behaviour, the Home Office announced today.
At present the powers available to CSOs vary from force to force, which can cause the public to misunderstand their role and in some cases prevent CSOs from playing a full part in neighbourhood policing.
The proposed standard set, published today, will ensure that CSOs in all areas have the powers necessary to deal with issues they are likely to encounter on the street while leaving the designation of a number of powers to the discretion of Chief Officers.
Home Office Minister Hazel Blears said:
"Community Support Officers are valuable members of the police family and provide excellent support to local communities. They have been well received by the public and been effective in tackling low-level crime, disorder and anti-social behaviour as well as helping to restore respect in local communities.
"Introducing a standard set of robust powers for CSOs will allow them to contribute fully to neighbourhood policing and handle more issues on-the-spot, without recourse to a police constable. It will also help the public understand exactly what CSOs can do, and free up more police time to deal with serious offences.
"By including a number of important powers - such as the power to issue a fixed penalty notice for littering or graffiti, or to confiscate drugs or alcohol - we are ensuring that CSOs have the tools to deal effectively with low level crime and anti-social behaviour."
In addition to the standard set of powers, it is proposed to extend the power to take part in truancy sweeps to CSOs. The Government believes that CSOs are well placed to undertake this activity given their local knowledge of children in their area. This was one of a number of measures outlined recently as part of the Government's Respect Action plan designed to combat the causes of anti-social behaviour and promote respect in society.
Proposals for the standard set of powers and the additional power will be brought before Parliament in forthcoming legislation.
http://www.pcsos-national.co.uk/
Also,
http://www.pcsos-national.co.uk/page3.html
Here is their web based contact form:
https://www.west-midlands.police.uk/general/contact-us/contact-us-form.asp
Here is their email address:
contactus@west-midlands.police.uk
"But there's no England now" --- Ray Davies
Where are the Jehova's Witnesses when you need them?
Clearly the Brits don't care about freedom of expression. And if their new immigrants (or the old ones) can't withstand the occasional evangelizing knock on the door, then I humbly propose they move to another country where such things are banned.
You should take the rod against the foreign gods. How does it come, that no Englishman knows anymore how to fight against the enemies? Just take your history books and look it up how your ancestors did.
You should take the rod against the foreign gods. How does it come, that no Englishman knows anymore how to fight against the enemies? Just take your history books and look it up how your ancestors did.
You mean they would be beaten up by moderate Muslims (there are no extremists in the UK, are there?)?. To say this sounds to me like a hate crime!
It's absurd, of course.
"But there's no England now" --- Ray Davies
Posted by: dennisw at June 1, 2008 1:41 PM
Yes, dennisw, I always thought those words were more than just a passing reference to the demise of the British Empire.
You might enjoy this:
http://www.classicrockrevisited.com/Interviews/08/DaveDavies08.htm
Remember when people used to say "there will always be an England" ?
Paleologus
Am reading that link with Ray Davies
Thanks!
Dave Davies ---- And he wrote it. "Living on a Thin Line"
Looks like a case for massive peaceful civil disobedience actions on the part of Christians, Hindus, Sikhs, Buddhists, Taoists and all other non-Muslim Infidels dwelling in England.
Where's the Salvation Army marching band?
The Christians could be organising prayer walks and a huge 'Jesus March'; and processions on Saints' Days and Holy Days.
The key is that every major festival of all non-Muslim religions should be celebrated in public, on the streets (e.g. Diwali, and Chinese New Year), and attended in force by all Infidels, not just the adherents of any one faith.
Watch the PCSO trying to arrest fifty Chinese Dragon Dancers and the members of the local Kung Fu club...
Reviving the ancient and traditional British custom of Beating the Bounds of the Parishes, could also be attempted by parish churches throughout the Islamised zones of Britain.
Here's a link to one church that is practising that custom, to give an idea of the sort of thing that it involves:
http://www.stpetersnottingham.org/misc/bounds.htm
And here's a description from an online source with old Brittanica articles:
http://encyclopedia.jrank.org/BOS_BRI/BOUNDS_BEATING_THE.html
- sounds like fun!
And wikipedia's account is also quite good:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beating_the_bounds
Money quote:
"Beating the Bounds is an ancient custom still observed in many English parishes. The community would walk the boundaries of the parish, to share the knowledge of where they lay, and to pray for protection and blessings for the lands."
TO PRAY FOR PROTECTION AND BLESSINGS FOR THE LANDS. Desperately needed, in this fateful hour.
Another feature of the tradition:
"Hymns would be sung, indeed a number of hymns are titled for their role, and many places in the English countryside bear names such as 'Gospel Oak' testifying to their role in the beating of the bounds."
If every Anglican parish church in London, and Manchester, and Birmingham, and surrounds, in every place where the Mohammedans have their 'no-go' zones, carefully planned, and prayed, and organised, and got large numbers of their non-Muslim neighbours, not just their fellow Christians of every denomination, but the Jews and Sikhs and Hindus and everyone else, of whatever faith or none, on side to join the procession (lots of fun stuff that isn't specifically Christian, is or can be involved)...well, do it and see what happens.
The traditional date/s for 'beating the bounds' have passed for this year - Ascension Day, and Rogation Week - but perhaps people could start organising now, with a view to doing it en masse next spring.
Islam is a geopolitical cult. Bishop Patrick Sookhdeo in his latest book about Islam - 'Power, Faith and Territory' - zeroes right in on that aspect of it.
So a geopolitical and religious home-grown English Christian custom like Beating the Bounds looks like a great way to challenge Islam head-on, within Britain.
Challenged it has to be.
Camelot! Camelot!
Now say it out with pride and joy!
TOM:
Camelot! Camelot!
ARTHUR:
Yes, Camelot, my boy!
Where once it never rained till after sundown,
By eight a.m. the morning fog had flown...
Don't let it be forgot
That once there was a spot
For one brief shining moment that was known
As Camelot.
What happened to free speech?
What has happened to the West?
When I read that they were taking legal action against the police, I knew that they were Americans.
The next time one of these goons describes a certain area as a "Muslim area", I want him to point out exactly where the dividing lines are. Then perhaps the local government would be so kind as to erect a fence, to keep the filthy kafirs from polluting it.
When I read that they were taking legal action against the police, I knew that they were Americans.
Muhammedans can proselytize/advertise on the very same style double tiered bus that was terror bombed by their own devout followers? . . . Muhammedans can foist halal meals on entire student body? . . .Muhammadans can openly indoctrinate British Students with Get "Know Islam" Kits . . .it goes on and on and on ad infinitum.
. . .yet the British are penalized for reciprocating?
Insanity. . . I'd say 'God save the Queen' but with the interest she's devoted to such undermining, what's the point?
Get video and audio naive folks! Imagine if there was a hidden camera showing these cops saying Christians can't preach in Britain. They would have to run it as the lead story on the BBC.
Christians in the UK should set up some "stings" for the police to catch them intimidating Christians. Or even those friendly "asian youths" who don't like Christians being Christians.
Go out and get video of what's happening on the UK streets.
James Martel -
what a great idea (re video).
I hope some UK jihadwatchers take it up (remember Granny Weatherwax?).
I mentioned the Salvation Army.
My husband's great-grandfather was a Salvation Army lay preacher in Northern England in the 1880s. This meant preaching in the streets. The local lads didn't always like it, and on one memorable occasion he got knocked out by a brick or suchlike, and was brought home on a hurdle. It didn't stop him; he was back on the preaching circuit as soon as he recovered.
The Salvation Army in the UK is now presented with the opportunity to revive that heroic 19th century tradition of street preaching, marching and singing, no matter what.
Salvation Army brass bands, trumpets, tamborines, uniforms and all, could be marching, playing, singing - and preaching! - in every high street and city square in Northern Britain, every Sunday.
In Scotland one could always add reinforcements: the pipes and the drums. Let's have mixed-race Christian choirs, West Indian black and Christian Indian and ethnic Scots, belting out Psalm 23 to the lovely 'Crimmond' tune, and the rest of the Scottish psalter, and 'Amazing Grace', on the front steps of the churches; with Bibles and leaflets ready to hand out to passers by who evince interest.
And if anyone tries to stop it, as James Martel has advised, film the whole thing.
(My own parish church, here in Australia, is at present not within an Islamified area of the kind that features in the posted article; the nearest mosque is 20 minutes drive away and I have never seen a burqa in the local shopping centre; so right now we are not yet having to face this level of Islamic aggression.
I must, however, speak to a parish priest I know who does have a mosque within his 'patch', quite close to his church, and ask him whether *his* parish has considered the possibility of, for example, a ceremonial 'beating the bounds'. I do know he deliberately rings his church bells on every possible occasion, as an act of anti-dhimmitude).
From the Daily Mail Online:
heroyalwhyness quoted the Daily Mail:
Thank you heroyalwhyness for confirming what we all highly suspected. The one word that was the most relevant in the whole article is the one word that the Telegraph tried to censor.
"According to a complaint by the men's lawyers, Mr Naguthney summoned two other officers in support, one of whom, a full constable, is said to have told the men not to return to the area."
So it's not just the PCSO....
This ain't no 'Hate crime'. It's a 'Love crime'.
Preaching Christianity to Muslims is one of the most compassionate (and couragious) acts possible. It ain't 'hate'!
Right on, Henrik - "a love crime".
and did you notice the OTHER interesting thing the 'Telegraph' version of the story suppressed, besides the Muslim identity of the PCSO?
It's the multi-ethnic composition of the mission team. One Anglo-American (I'm assuming from his name - Arthur Cunningham) - and ONE EGYPTIAN, AN APOSTATE FROM ISLAM!!
I must say that when I saw his name 'Joseph Abraham', in the original piece Mr Spencer posted, I wondered whether he might be a convert, perhaps Indian; though I didn't guess he might be a convert from Islam.
But there it is, the 'Daily Mail' report, the *other* piece of vital information the Telegraph suppressed: "Mr Abraham, 65, who was born a Muslim in Egypt and is a convert to Christianity".
God bless him. I'm sure all the Coptic saints and martyrs from the long dark night of Muslim occupation are rejoicing just as hard over Mr Joseph Abraham as they did over Magdi Cristiano Allam. If he's the descendant of Copts long ago forced to submit to Islam, he has come home to Christ; or if he is a descendant of the merciless Arab jihadis who invaded Egypt, he has been transformed into a faithful servant of the Prince of Peace.
And now he's gone right back into the lions' den to see if he can do for others what someone, perhaps ten, twenty, thirty, forty years ago, did for him: show the way out of Islam.
I doubt that the threat of a beating will scare him off or shut him up. Muslims who have freed themselves, or been freed, from Islam; especially those who have met Yeshua of Nazareth, tend to be very hard to scare.
He'll be back.
I'll put him on my prayer list, next to Patrick Sookhdeo and Michael Nazir-Ali.
England forever! Protect your country and culture!
I'd bet my life savings that the cop was a Muslim.
Insanity. . . I'd say 'God save the Queen' but with the interest she's devoted to such undermining, what's the point?
Posted by: heroyalwhyness at June 1, 2008 10:19 PM
I can't stand E2nd. All she does is nod and wave. Never says anything. Here's who Britain needs to fight the Mohammadans: Queen Boadicea.
http://womenshistory.about.com/od/boudicca/p/boudicca.htm
How long can they keep telling us that multiculturalism works and that islam is not intent on taking over my country? They take every benefit given to them by our society, they scream about equality for them whilst trying to impose their islamofascism on us.
Our government is so needy of muslim votes (they have made sure of this) that they are ignoring a dire threat to the so called free society they claim to be creating.
Can you imagine if a Christian PCSO had said something even remotely similar to what this muslim muttawa PCSO said? His feet wouldn't have touched the ground. He would have been lucky to just lose his job and not be hauled before the courts.
The PCSO, or as we call them "plastic policemen", even appears in a local government employment scheme stating that it was his ambition to join the police force. I bet it was. In the same way that jihadists attempt to gain employment at airports and MI5.
See page 9 of this PDF document for an interview with the very same muttawa PCSO in question.
http://www.birmingham.gov.uk/Media/Network%20News%20Issue%2016.pdf?MEDIA_ID=208512&FILENAME=Network%20News%20Issue%2016.pdf
It is interesting and terrifying that we have seen the introduction of PCSO's in this country. A perfect way for people with no ability or intention of training to become proper police officers, to gain a position of power.
The PCSO system is ripe for exploitation my muslims who, like this Naeem Naguthny, intend to use their position to act as some kind of muttawa.
Can you actually imagine what would happen if this PCSO came across an incident between a muslim and a non-muslim? Do you really think he would be unbiased or follow the law. He has no intention of following our law. As he has shown by this incident he intends to apply islamic law through his position. Islamic law that states that there should be no religion other than Islam.
And what do the police say when he is caught out? NOTHING, NOT A THING. And why is that do you think? Probably because we now have a muslim police association which purposefully has separated the police force based on RELIGION, not even race but RELIGION. And of course the religion that requires special treatment based on it's beliefs? ISLAM.
This country is fucked unless we stand up to these people.
Apologies if posted elsewhere in thread but in response to comment One, yes (no surprises) he was Muslim.
Dail Mail has his picture too.
As a Briton, I am sad to read this. The tirade against the wars just because the accused was American could be a racial incident in itself. This does not seem to be a case of a stupid policeman who did not know the law [there are many of them] but of a malicious policeman who made up his own laws. I think that complaints with the I.P.C.C. should be filed and perhaps a claim for false imprisonment should be filed against West Midlands police. If the false imprisonment is held to have been racially motivated, the damages would be higher.
Several people have questioned the religion of the officer and others have identified him as Muslim (surprise). Here is is photograph - question answered.
http://rjjago.wordpress.com/2008/06/02/can-muslims-control-themselves/
Paolo: I haven't heard from you for some time. I look forward to your comments.
Does anyone have the name of the officer?
I would find it interesting to know if this is an 'asian' or 'muslim' officer.
I hope these ministers sue to the fullest extent of the law.
Since the officer was a muslim, shouldn't the ministers sue and prosecute under the 'hate laws'.
It was the officer that violated the miniters rights based on religious hatred.
If the officer is policing the muslim area by using muslim Sharia, what crimes perpetrated by muslims is this officer turning a 'blind eye' to.
Those two preachers should sue the cop and the Department who gives him his police powers. It seems evident that he is an abuser of police power.
its a slam dunk for the ministers bebause this MUSLIM would be cop was the one trying to violate the ministers rights