"Anyone that kidnaps an Israeli will now know that Israel is willing to pay an extremely high price, totally out of proportion with what the other side will pay."
No kidding, you think that might embolden Hizballah?
"Israelis uneasy over prisoner release: Critics say the deal, which they see as lopsided, could embolden Hezbollah," by Ilene R. Prusher and Joshua Mitnick for the Christian Science Monitor, July 17 (thanks to the Constantinopolitan Irredentist):
JERUSALEM and NAHARIYA, ISRAEL - Israel received two black coffins on Wednesday containing the remains of the soldiers abducted in a Hezbollah raid at Israel's northern border two summers ago – a surprise attack whose aftereffects are still reverberating.The long-awaited prisoner exchange, far from closing a chapter that included a 34-day war and raising hopes for peace, instead has Israel grieving over its losses and watching for further military maneuvers by the Iranian-backed Hezbollah.
Moreover, the inherent disparity of the deal has sparked concerns that it will embolden Hezbollah, Hamas, and other foes of Israel to kidnap soldiers and civilians, knowing that they can extract large concessions. Israel agreed to receive the soldiers dead or alive in exchange for the remains of 200 Lebanese as well as the release of five Lebanese prisoners, including Samir Kuntar, who was convicted of murdering an Israeli father and child in Nahariya nearly 30 years ago.
"Anyone that kidnaps an Israeli will now know that Israel is willing to pay an extremely high price, totally out of proportion with what the other side will pay," says Danny Yatom, former head of Mossad, the intelligence agency....
Hey, even I knew that.
If I came to Earth today from Mars and saw this story I would think "Wow - these Jews are weak - I could really take the piss".
And that's what Jihad Joe is thinking right now.
Israel - you made a M I S T A K E
"Anyone that kidnaps an Israeli will now know that Israel is willing to pay an extremely high price, totally out of proportion with what the other side will pay," says Danny Yatom, former head of Mossad...
Spoken like someone who has never learned from history (recent history!) and is doomed to repeat it.
from Yahoo (current)
The deal, in which a notorious Lebanese attacker, four other militants and the bodies of 199 Arab fighters were traded for two dead Israeli soldiers, closed a painful chapter from Israel's 2006 war in Lebanon.
Israel has been carrying out unequal prisoner swaps for decades, including handing over 4,600 Palestinian and Lebanese captives in 1983 in exchange for six captured Israeli soldiers. In the past it's even traded live prisoners for bodies, as it did Wednesday.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080716/ap_on_re_mi_ea/israel_lebanon
The story of one of the freed prisoners:
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080715/ap_on_re_mi_ea/israel_lebanon
Shit really, and they worked that out all on their own, jeez. Perhaps I should get a job in the intelligence services.
Oh, now they suddenly understand that 'negotiations' backfire? Where has this logic and observations been over the last 40 years of broken truces and negotiations.
What could be more stupid that trading live terrorist prisoners for a couple of corpses? Even the pushovers-for-militant-Muslims&immigrants British would not, I think, be that stupid.
Why should Hamas or Hezbollah bother to keep any Israeli prisoners alive? They know they can exchange rotting corpses for their live friends. It's beyond stupid, it's insane.
Ya think?
Is there any chance that the condition of the corpses of the two Israeli soldiers will be released to the public? Are there obvious signs of torture? Are their heads and limbs still attached to their bodies?
Not that news reports bother to point it out, but the two Israelis were taken prisoner, alive, and the fact is that they were confirmed as being alive while in custody. Hizb'Allah murdered (hopefully that's all they did) these two prisoners, which just happens to be a war crime. Not a panties-on-head, or offering-food-during-Ramadan, or filthy-kufir-without-rubber-gloves-touching-the-holy-holy-Quran "war crime", but a real war crime.
And in response, the kufirs are silent. That silence will embolden Hizb'Allah too.
[And note that the MSM still insists on spelling it "Hezbollah". It comes from "The Party of Allah". So, who is "Ollah"? It is just another attempt by the MSM to paper over the Islam-terrorism connection.]
I sometimes wonder what it was like to be a Roman just before the fall say 470 AD. You didn't know exactly when it would end. You didn't know you only had six years left. The horde is at the gates, you know everything that is yours is under threat. Your weman and children raped and killed, your property destroyed .... everything threatened. Your payments seem to have less and less effect at holding the horde at bay. What do you do? It is A.D. 475, for the Israelis ... that much is clear. If you are an Israeli heed this. Stop listening to what other interests tell you to do for your surviavl. The horde will not show you mercy. Your children and wives will be raped, and killed, your property destroyed and taken from you, and you too will cease to exist exept in memory.
Has Hizballah ever returned a live Israeli?
Ehud Olmert is such an inexplicable leader of his nation that he's beginning to make James Buchanan, a leader of his country at one time, look like a stalwart in the courage and wisdom departments. Really, what the the hell is going on in Israel today?
They should have evened the disparity by sending them back in a green coffin.
If southern Lebanon and its citizens want war the governance and ownership of the land should be at risk. If they choose to risk thier territory with another open conflict perhaps the only answer is for Israel to anex it and populate it under Jewish controll. This is how wars are ended. This goes for "Palestine" too by the way. Then the defeated can can resort to begging like the Syrians. Seems so logical how can the chessmasters in charge of affairs in the west not have figured that out.
People have to realize that it is the corrupt, greedy and timid politicians who are selling off the country, the people and the civilization. Bush or Olmert or Condi won't bat an eyelid in promising whatever the Johadis ask. After all, Bush, Olmert or Condi ar enot going to pay the price. Besides, as long as they hold political office, these corrupt politicians do not waste any chance to pocket whatevr peso or petro-dollar they can, preparing for the doom they themselves are inviting. On the other hand, all the Jihadis have to do is to pocket a few of these corrupt and greedy politicians and victory is assured.
Ya think?!?!?
.
Well that just signed the death warrant for the rest of the Israeli prisoners didn't it?
Smooth move Olmert.
Idiot.
The welcoming committe: TRE.
(Target Rich Environment).
I wonder if Mossad could have planted GPS transmitters somewhere on the terrorists bodies, clothing, or shoes. As soon as Nasrallah welcomed them back with open arms, several 2000 lb J-Dams suddenly and magically appear overhead. Multiple problems solved and the most seroius of messages sent across the world, again: Mess with Israelis and you will be terminated.
Did it cross anyone's mind that the leaders of Israel did this in spite of the advice of the Mossad and the will of the Israeli people for a valid reason other than corruption? I like to think that with Israel out of Lebanon and maybe the Shebaa Farms soon, with Israel and Syria finally reaching a peace agreement, and now Israel returning all Lebanese prisoners (dead & alive), it has taken away all alibis for Hezbollah to continue having a military presence in Lebanon. Granted that the Lebanese can't disarm the Iranian army in Lebanon, but I think Israel is rushing to have another war with Hezbollah and is trying to get as many Lebanese allies to its cause. If I am wrong, then Olmert has simply lost it.
I think the emphasis is wrong. Everyone is ignoring the number of Lebanese that were killed in the subsequent war as a result of the kidnapping. It should be shouted from the rooftops the worthlessness of Arab lives to these Islamic savages.
Having said this, Kuntar should not have been released alive or able to live long. Let's hope if the opportunity arises, shoot to kill is the order of the day.
Sasuke - you make some good points, however it is possible that your wording is erroneous:
A. These are NOT "Lebanese Citizens". They are muslim terrorists.
B. Hezbollah does not need an alibi...they are not in an American courtroom. They have enough weapons and ruthless muslim terrorists that the official Lebanese government is afraid of taking them on...so is the UN. remeber how the muslim terrorists fired at Israel right next to the UN compund south of the Latani river? They aren't scared of anyone or anything. That is the main problem.
C. I would encourage you and all JW readers to thoroughly read the book titled: Ghost Wars-the secret history of the CIA, Afghanistan and bin Laden from the Soviet Invasion to 9/11, by Steve Coll. In it, you will find many American career government officials like Janet Reno, who hamstrung our decision-making for fear of international backlash and legal matters. IMO, most of the Americans, Pakistanis, and Saudis listed by name in this book need to be lined up against a wall and dealt with. The Americans, for totally failing the American People and breaking their oaths to protect and defend. The Paki and Saudis also need to be lined up against a wall as they have proven to be double-dealing scumbags, in other words...muslims who sympathize with terrorists and practice taqqiya, just like Benazir Bhutto admitted to lying to our officials about her secret support for the Taliban, in order to get Unocal to build a natural gas pipeline through southern Afghanistan, then through Pakistans territory. It appears that NONE of the American officials have read the Koran, Hadith or Sira.
So they capture 2 Israeli soldiers and murder them. As another poster mentioned, I would like to hear from the coroner. Where's the world outrage?
i fully agree with giving those prisoners back but it should have been in a box
There were several things occurred to me whilst watching the wall-to-wall coverage of this on CNN.
The first was, of course, the inevitable secret hope as Cuntar embraced fatso Nasrallah, that the Israelis had secretly filled the scumbag with remote-controlled explosives. But of course, the Israelis are civilized human beings, utterly unlike the inhuman scum massed again them.
Next, I was struck by how positive CNN's coverage was in favour of Israel, and with that realisation the thought struck me that perhaps there is a deeper game being played here. It is utterly impossible to present Cuntar as anything else than what he is - a cowardly, child-murdering scumbag. Who is then shown on TV around the world, being feted by Hizbollah.
I think two things may come from this - it may help some in the West, blinded by the anti-Israel bias of the media, to shake the scales from their eyes. And it may even galvanise the Israelis themselves, or at least those sections of the Israeli left who seem to want to give Israel away.
Some things, of course, pass without the slightest trace of irony, such as the description of the scum Cuntar as a Lebanese Druze, and in the next breath, as a member of the Palestinian Liberation Front. Priceless.
The hostages were alive and held captive. They are now dead ( while in captivity) but the trade still goes through!!! Olmert once said Israel was 'tired of winning' ... surely its only a matter of time before Israel tires of 'losing'.
This whole episode is pathetic. I ask myself, what has Israel gained by doing this? I can only see strategic failure (my heart goes out to the families of the two dead Israeli soldiers).
If Israel is playing to MSM and they think that the MSM is representative of our country, they are sadly mistaken. Israel should be doing the exact opposite of what their enemies including the MSM wants Israel to do. Israel will never gain the high ground with the MSM. The best recent example of this is Gen. Petraeus. The MSM wanted us to lose in Iraq and Gen. Petraeus is a winner who does know how to lose. You can see what has happened.
THE MSM WANTS ISRAEL TO LOSE AND MILITANT ISLAM TO WIN. THEY ARE ISRAEL'S ENEMY.
Sasuke,
Nice try.
Lebanon has never needed a reason to attack Israel. The Lebanese allowed their land to be used by the PLO to attack northern Israel BEFORE (you got that?) a single Israeli soldier's foot ever touched Lebanese soil in 1982.
Granted that the Lebanese can't disarm the Iranian army in Lebanon
Why can't they? Either they want the Iranians there or they don't. If they want them there then the Lebanese had better be prepared to accept all that comes with harboring and supporting terrorists.
As for removing all excuses: it didn't work in Gaza, the Sinai or Lebanon. I say it didn't work in the Sinai because if it had the Egyptian government would not be turning a blind eye to what happens in Gaza. Egypt has a peace treaty with Israel which it violates every day it supplies the militants in Gaza.
How many times will the Israelis give back everything they won in war only to have the war against them continue unabated? God help Israel if it ever gives back the Golan Heights.
As for what is happening in Israeli leadership today: is there something about the name "Ehud" that makes all leaders who possess it desirous of selling out the country so many fought to establish and defend?
THE MSM WANTS ISRAEL TO LOSE AND MILITANT ISLAM TO WIN.
by Spot on
Truer words were never spoken.
Message to MSM: Careful what you wish for.
Correcting important typo
The best recent example of this is Gen. Petraeus. The MSM wanted us to lose in Iraq and Gen. Petraeus is a winner who DOES NOT know how to lose. You can see what has happened.
"The MSM wanted us to lose in Iraq and Gen. Petraeus is a winner who DOES NOT know how to lose."
They still want us to lose and any victory that emerges will be cast as a failure - not just by MSM but by Democrats as well, as in reasons for the stability in Iraq:
1: We bought them off. People are being paid not to fight. Once we stop paying they'll start fighting again.
2: Iraqis are biding their time.
3: And now for the the coup de grace - the generals are lying. Every day there are reports of bombs going off and people dying. We will not be successful until there are ZERO Iraqi deaths.
I'm not an adept, when it comes to politics, or foreign policy--So, if what I say is stupid, please go easy on me, okay?
All I can think of, when I hear about the Israelis being willing to accept dead prisoners is that Jewish burial traditions are very important to Jews (the more orthodox folks, anyway).
Could it be that the Israelis were willing to accept the remains of two prisoners, to ensure that they wouldn't be profaned, post mortem?
I agree, it was an uneven swap, but maybe religious sentiment had a little bit to do with it.
As for the 64,000-dollar question, of course this is going to embolden Hizballah! (Duh!) What's really nasty is that it's going to embolden Hizballah to send all prisoners back to Israel, dead.
On the other hand, Israel can't say, "No, we won't accept the bodies of our dead." They're between the proverbial rock and a hard place, there.
Said Meir Kahane:
Abscedere,
You pointed out the strict burial rites of the Jews. Don't the Muslims have similar rules?
And what did they do to those bodies in all this time? Imagine if we returned their corpses with just a bit of bacon grease. The world would go ape.
The need for closure is real but maybe Israel would get further if it swapped corpses for corpses and prisoners for prisoners.
Would families whose sons died at the hands of terrorists want them back at the price of endangering others by releasing wanton killers? Rules change in wartime. We have people who are never identified and are buried in unmarked graves, if they are buried at all. Not all traditions can be adhered to as they are in peacetime.
In addition, Israel should remove the incentive to capture someone TODAY to exchange tomorrow for someone who is in prison. No such exchanges allowed.
PMK:
"The Lebanese allowed their land to be used by the PLO to attack northern Israel BEFORE (you got that?) a single Israeli soldier's foot ever touched Lebanese soil in 1982."
I knew that and that is completely irrelevant. The civil war of Lebanon (started 1975) between muslims and christians was ignited by the PLO problem and their armed existence on Lebanese lands.
"Why can't they?"
lol, I don't know if you noticed, but Hezbollah gets more aid from Iran than the total GDP of Lebanon.
"As for removing all excuses: it didn't work in Gaza, the Sinai or Lebanon..."
The removal of these excuses has nothing to do with motivating the Lebanese government to remove Hezbollah, which again, they are incapable of. It has to do with increasing the number of anti-Hezbollah Lebanese citizens (there are close to 1 million christians in Lebanon), before Israel goes in for one last confrontation with them. At least that is what I am hoping for.
I am however displeased with the Sunnis in Lebanon, with whom I argue over the internet, and they seem reluctant to fight against their Hezbollah "brothers".
sasuke,
Hezbollah's excuse for a military presence in Lebanon vanished eight years ago with the Israeli withdrawal from Lebanon. There was certainly no excuse for firing rockets into Israel AFTER the withdrawal.
Where there's a will, there's a way.
If the people of Lebanon want peace, they'll find a way to make it happen.
http://www.csmonitor.com/2008/0717/p12s01-wome.html
Sasuke,
If you haven't seen it, you might read this. It tells just what the people of Lebanon want.
And it is not peace.