Never mind stories like this. Or this, this, and this. Nope. It's all copasetic. "Pope tells Iraqi leader Christians need protection," by Phillip Pullella for Reuters, July 25:
CASTEL GANDOLFO, Italy (Reuters) - Pope Benedict told Iraqi Prime Minister Nuri al-Maliki on Friday that minority Christians in Iraq needed more protection but the Iraqi leader assured him that Christians were not being persecuted.
Maliki, who met the pope for 20 minutes at the pontiff's summer residence south of Rome, invited the pontiff to visit Iraq, saying a trip there would help the process of peace and reconciliation.
"We renewed our invitation for His Holiness to visit Iraq. He welcomed the invitation. And we hope that he will be making the visit as soon as he can," he told reporters in the palace after the meeting.
"His visit would represent support for the efforts of love and peace in Iraq," he added.
The late Pope John Paul wanted to visit Iraq in 2000 but was denied permission by the government of Saddam Hussein.
Maliki said he and the pope also discussed the plight of minority Christians in Iraq and the prime minister urged those who had left after the U.S.-led invasion in 2003 to return to help rebuild the country.
"I also appealed to His Holiness to encourage Christians who left the country to go back and be part of the social structure of Iraq again," he said.
A Vatican statement said the pope condemned all forms of violence "which was not sparing the Christian communities, which strongly feel the need for greater security".
The statement said the Vatican believed that inter-religious dialogue would be important for the country's future.
Many of Iraq's Christians have left the country, among the two million refugees who have fled to neighbouring states.
Iraq's small Christian minority has tried to keep out of the Shi'ite-Sunni sectarian violence that has killed tens of thousands of Iraqis since the 2003 U.S.-led invasion. But Christian clergy and churches have been targeted repeatedly by Sunni militant groups linked to Al Qaeda.
The Archbishop of Mosul of Iraq's largest Christian denomination, the Chaldean Catholics, was kidnapped in the northern city in February and found dead two weeks later.
Maliki said the pope understood the inter-religious situation in Iraq.
"He expressed this by saying that bad people exist within all religions, whether Christians or Muslims," Maliki said.
"This sound, realistic, objective understanding by His Holiness is the best answer to those who claim that Christians are persecuted in Iraq by Muslims," he said.
Not true. Acknowledging that "bad people exist within all religions" does not begin to rule out the idea that Muslims are persecuting Christians in Iraq. But Maliki is seizing the opportunity to gloss over the ideology driving the persecution there.
And Maliki is one of the "good guys"?
Maliki, democratically elected by the Iraqis, after the years of sacrifice of blood and sweat by the US military only to see their Christian brethren in Iraq persecuted by these regular moms and dads, Iraqi Muslims.
Persecution == fitnah, or discord: Christians would only be persecuted if they were prevented from praying to the Islamic Allah, or if Christian clergy were allowed to corrupt their minds by spreading the gospel. But since none of that is happening, and on the contrary, Christians are being attacked for not worshipping Allah, or promoting discord by preaching Christianity among Christians, none of it is persecution.
See, one needs to parse these statements according to their islamic meanings. Got it?
fact: "bad people in all religions."
ok fine but in the present topic what matters is how many bad people and what they are doing.
fact: much much worse people are found in islam in iraq than in christianity (or atheism or agnosticism or humanism in the west).
proof: In iraq moslems kill more moslems than the so called crusaders trying to bring democracy. Furthermore the relentlessly persecute the christians.
In the west we do not find the iraqies or moslems being killed or persecuted byt the christians (or athiests or agnostics or humanists)
Therefore much many much worse people exist in the islamic religion.
what is Maliki going to do about it? Nothing which is a clear indication he is one of said much worse people.
The fact that Christians are being persecuted all over the world by muslims is a bigger issue for the Vatican to address.
Name a muslim country and you will find a group of Christians being persecuted and ignored by the world.
It gives some Christians something to talk about. Of course no one will do anything about it, but it makes great conversation.
They lie in your face and stab you in the back. They have done that for 1400 years and they will continue to do it until we set them straight...
I don't know which is worse: the sellout of Islam's women by western feminists or the betrayal of the dhimmi Christians by the west's mainstream churches ... about equally disgusting, I suppose.
What about gay organizations in the west---do they follow the pattern?
Hi, would be a joke if it weren't so serious. You know Sydney recently held World Youth Day and 140 Chaldean Christians from Iraq applied to come and attend. The applications had to go through the Australian embassy in Jordan and were initially refused. But when the story of the refusal was published via the Catholic News Service, 27 visas were finally granted to the Iraqis. It was such a joy to see so many happy, spiritually uplifted young people here in Sydney at the WYD.
Apparently there may be more to the story about why the visas were initially refused. Mr Kevin Andrews, when Immigration Minister in the Howard Government, identified several overseas posts in which a distinct pro-Muslim bias had been detected.
Is that kind of like a "There are no homosexuals in Iran" type of statement?
"We renewed our invitation for His Holiness to visit Iraq.
Yes I bet you did...'Welcome to my world', said the spider to the fly.
the pope would be a target for evey jihadis
ozgal
thanks for passing on that news about the Chaldean Catholics.
I'd heard about what Andrews found.
For those here who aren't Australian, and may not know about this, here's the story as sent to me by a friend:
http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,24043030-601,00.html
This article (Weekend Australian 10-20 July) is interesting. It seems that the previous Federal Government was trying to discriminate in favour of Christian migrants from the Middle East.
Best Wishes
[NAME]
Kevin Andrews wanted Christian migrants
THE AUSTRALIAN
Richard Kerbaj | July 19, 2008
'FORMER immigration minister Kevin Andrews instructed his department to lift the intake of Christian refugees from the Middle East in response to what he saw as a pro-Muslim bias created by corrupt local case officers. {NOTA BENE}
'Mr Andrews was so concerned about the extent of corruption in Middle Eastern posts - despite the allegations being investigated and dismissed by his own department - that he wrote to then prime minister John Howard advocating a $200 million plan to replace local employees with Australian staff in 10 "sensitive" countries, including Jordan, Iran and Egypt.
'Opposition immigration spokesman Chris Ellison said yesterday this remained Coalition policy.
'"We do not want discrimination or bias occurring ... and that's why I believe it is appropriate that our sensitive overseas posts, such as those in the Middle East, are staffed by Australians," Senator Ellison said.
'A Department of Immigration spokesman said there were no substantiated cases of anti-Christian discrimination in Australian embassies and no plans to replace "Islamic locally engaged staff" with Australian officials. {STUPID STUPID STUPID - calling all Aussie jihadwatchers to put some turps on the tail of this Dept of Immigration 'spokesman', asap - hasn't this nitwit ever heard about al-taqiyya - probably not - time to enlighten him - dda}
'An investigation by The Weekend Australian has discovered Mr Andrews was petitioned by the Australian Christian Lobby to address alleged religious discrimination against Iraqis.
'Before losing office in the November 2007 election, he ordered the number of Christian Iraqi refugees to be increased by 1400 for 2007-08, almost doubling the previous year's Iraqi total of 1639.
'"Put it this way, it was made very clear to the immigration department that more Christian refugees were wanted," a Howard government source said.
In his letter to Mr Howard in August last year, Mr Andrews, a devout Catholic, proposed significant changes to the refugee selection process.
'In the letter, seen by The Weekend Australian, Mr Andrews accused the case workers {Muslims, betcha! - dda} in Australian embassies of fraud and bribery when processing migration applications.
'Such posts are predominantly staffed by local workers.
He said this raised "considerable security risks".
"The other significant reason for changing the staffing composition of overseas posts is to prevent discrimination at the 'front office' of the posts," Mr Andrews wrote.
'"Since becoming Minister, I have received a large number of representations from people alleging systematic and co-ordinated discrimination against particular persons based on race and religion at certain sensitive posts. In particular, this allegedly involves the active blocking and impediment of the lodgement of applications at the front office.
'"At worst, potential applicants are simply being told not to lodge an application. The majority of such claims have been made in respect to posts in the Middle East and Central Asia. For these reasons, I think it would be timely to revise the staffing arrangements for immigration posts that can be classified as 'sensitive' and to staff these posts exclusively with Australian departmental officers."
'Mr Andrews names 10 countries - Pakistan, India, United Arab Emirates, China, Iran, Lebanon, Jordan, Kenya, Russia and Egypt - in which the posts should be staffed exclusively with Australian departmental officers.
'The non-Muslim countries named by Mr Andrews are understood to be less riddled by religious discrimination and more so by corruption, a source told The Weekend Australian.
'"Conflicts of interest, regardless of whether they're religious-based or corruption-based, are one package," the source said.
'"And if you deal with it like that, that takes you beyond Muslim countries."
'It is understood that Mr Howard told Mr Andrews his proposal would be considered for the next budget if the Coalition were to be re-elected into power in November 2007. The proposal was estimated to cost $204million to implement.
'There is no provision within Australian immigration laws to select refugees on the basis of religion.
'A former Howard government source said Mr Andrews wanted to save Christian Iraqis from persecution by Shia and Sunni Muslims throughout the Middle East.
"With the intake from the Middle East the department was told that we want to focus on Iraqi Christians," the source said. "The department basically said they couldn't do that because that would be discriminating on race and religion."
'The official explanation given last August by Mr Andrews for boosting Iraqi refugees numbers was that the altered intake was in response to an international conference run by the United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees four months earlier seeking to help Iraqis forced out of their country.
'Mr Andrews strongly pursued Catholic causes throughout his parliamentary career. He successfully campaigned to abolish the Northern Territory's euthanasia law in 1996 and voiced his opposition to therapeutic cloning and abortion drug RU486.
'In the lead-up to last year's election, he was accused of "dog whistle" politics after cutting back the African refugee intake from 50 per cent to 30 per cent of the total 13,000 places under the refugee program on the grounds they were not integrating well into Australian society.
'At the same time, Mr Andrews increased the refugee intake from Middle East and Asian countries to 70 per cent of the total quota.
'Australian Christian Lobby national chief of staff Lyle Shelton said his organisation was regularly in discussions with Mr Andrews about the religious discrimination against Christian Iraqi refugees.
'"We made representations to the previous minister about this," he said
"We are concerned about persecution of minority groups regardless of their religion, but in the Iraqi situation they happen to be Christian."
'Gamil Helmy, a spokesman for the Australian Coptic Association, a Christian group, said religious discrimination against Iraqi refugees in Middle East-based immigration posts was forcing some families to relocate to other host countries to reapply for visas. "It should be investigated," he said.
'Assyrian Federation of Australia co-ordinator Emmanuel Michael said he first raised the issue of religious discrimination against Iraqi refugees in the late 1990s with then immigration minister Philip Ruddock.
'He praised Mr Andrews's proposal for replacing local staff with Australians at some overseas immigration posts.
'"We should have our own Australian people and not locals from there so that they don't discriminate," he said. "This would help solve problems." END ARTICLE
I had already raised this issue in letters to the Prime Minister, Leader of Opposition, and my Federal MP, shortly after the announcement that we would be leaving Iraq.
Not knowing anything at all about what Andrews had been trying to achieve, going solely by what I had learned about Muslim persecution of Iraqi Christians, I pleaded, in the letters, for our country to take in these persecuted Christians.
I urged that Muslims, whether in Australia or overseas, should NOT be allowed to act as 'gatekeepers' anywhere along the entry process for such Christian refugees; I warned (going by things that regular posters such as 'havemercy' have frequently explained, here) that such Muslims would most assuredly use their position to block and turn back Christian applicants, shoving them back into the deathtrap.
Looks as though a lot of us need to keep on jumping up and down and yelling until all our Aussie politicians, of all three major parties, get the idea.
It just occirred to me, this old song by the O'Jays is so appropriate:
Backstabbers
(What they do)
They smile in your face
All the time they want to take your place
The back stabbers (back stabbers)
They smile in your face
All the time they want to take your place
The back stabbers (back stabbers)
All you fellows who have someone
And you really care, yeah, yeah
Then it's all of you fellows
Who better beware, yeah yeah
Somebody's out to get your lady
A few of your buddies they sure look shady
Blades are long, clenched tight in their fist
Aimin' straight at your back
And I don't think they'll miss
What they do)
They smile in your face
All the time they want to take your place
The back stabbers (back stabbers)
I keep gettin' all these visits
From my friends, yeah, what they doin to me
They come to my house
Again and again and again and again, yeah
So are they there to see my woman
I don't even be home but they just keep on comin'
What can I do to get on the right track
I wish they'd take some of these knives off my back
(What they do)
They smile in your face
All the time they want to take your place
The back stabbers
(Back stabbers)
Low down, dirty
What they do)
They smile in your face
Smiling faces
Smiling faces sometimes tell lies (back stabbers)
They smile in your face
I don't need low down
Dirty bastards (back stabbers)
Perhaps the prime minister's representations to the Pope should be regarded as "aspirational" rather than "actual." Perhaps al-Maliki looks forward to a time when all Iraqi Christians have been murdered, or driven into exile, or converted to Islam, or subjugated under the Dhimma. At that point, there will be "no persecution of Christians in Iraq."
No persecution? Tell that to Father Reagheed Ganni, New Martyr of Iraq...
And there are good and bad in every party, sure... Are Chaldeans gunning down muslim clerics who feel compelled to NOT travel alone in Iraq these days?
No prosecution of Christians in Iraq, just some beheadings here and there by some muslim terrorists.
Maliki tells Pope: No persecution of Christians in Iraq
...................................
Yes, and Sudan's dictator, Omar al-Bashir, is revered as a "peacemaker" in Darfur, and there are no gays in Iran.
Goebbels was right about the "Big Lie". Oh, no one really believes it, but few people are going to call them on it, either.
poster Family Values wrote:
I don't know which is worse: the sellout of Islam's women by western feminists or the betrayal of the dhimmi Christians by the west's mainstream churches ... about equally disgusting, I suppose.
What about gay organizations in the west---do they follow the pattern?
...................................
Same exact pattern, I'm afraid. Sometimes I pick up a copy of the Bay Area Reporter, a gay newspaper based in San Francisco. They had a review of the film, "Jerusalem is Proud to Present" about the attempt to hold a Gay Pride march in Jerusalem in 2006.
They refer to the attempt as "Middle Eastern democracy in action", without mentioning that such action could never have taken place in any other part of the "Middle East"--just in Israel. They also natter on about the friendship of "Israeli and Palestinian drag artists", without mentioning that "Palestinian drag artists" would be taking their lives in their hands if they tried to practice said art in the Palestinian territories. No, they come to Israel for that.
There is also no mention that more liberal Tel Aviv has a huge Gay Pride parade every year that attracts thousands of participants and visitors. There is no Pride parade anywhere in the "Muslim world". Can you imagine the violence such a parade would attract if it ever were held?
While there was resistance to the proposed Jerusalem parade by Jewish conservatives, the statement that came closest to a threat was from a Muslim member of the Knesset, Sheik Ibrahim Sarsur, who warned gays that "if they dare to approach the Temple Mount during the World Pride 2006 parade in Jerusalem — they will do so over our dead bodies".
This paper rarely mentions the terrible plight of gays in Muslim countries, but criticism of Israel and the West is quite constant.