More saber-rattling from the peaceful mullahs and their peaceful nuke program. "Iran will 'burn' Tel Aviv and US shipping in Gulf if nuclear programme attacked," by David Byers in the Times Online, July 8 (thanks to the Constantinopolitan Irredentist):
Iran has said that it would retaliate against any pre-emptive attack on its nuclear facilities by “burning” the Israeli city of Tel Aviv and American shipping in the Persian Gulf.In rhetoric which further raises the temperature in the Islamic Republic's stand-off with the West, an aide to Ayatollah Ali Khamenei, the Supreme Leader, today emphasised that his country would not hesitate to spark off a regional war if any state tried to destroy its programme.
Israel has vowed to deny Iran any atomic technology which gives it bomb-making potential, and last month carried out a military exercise over Greece that was widely interpreted as a coded warning to Iran to halt its programme or face the consequences.
The comments today by Ali Shirazi, Ayatollah Khamenei’s representative to the Revolutionary Guard, will intensify the war of words between Iran and the West and increase fears of military confrontation, which has helped to boost world oil prices to record highs in recent weeks.
“The first bullet fired by America at Iran will be followed by Iran burning down its vital interests around the globe," the ISNA news agency quoted Mr Shirazi as saying in a speech to the Revolutionary Guard.
"The Zionist regime is pressuring White House officials to attack Iran. If they commit such a stupidity, Tel Aviv and US shipping in the Persian Gulf will be Iran’s first targets and they will be burned."...
They welcome Obama's suggestion of turning down the rhetoric but at the same time they ratchet theirs up. Should that give two clues to anyone who's paying attention?
The article "Tel Aviv and US shipping in the Persian Gulf will be Iran’s first targets"
Is more proof of the 100% accuracy of the May 15th Prophecy which has declare the target Iran will attack
Do a Google search of the May 15th Prophecy and you will see for yourself just how 100% accurate it is
Blah blah blah ... rivers of blood ... lalalalalala. We've heard all this before from these Middle Eastern windbags.
Prophetic wrath or not, Iran is a fly compared to the military might of the USA and other Western societies. If they bomb one Israeli city, the West, if they want could return Iran to the stone age. We won't of course because we are civilized. We could however cause a decade or so of recovery to Iran's infrastructure, take out a few hundred Mullahs in their "religious compounds", the Presidential palace, and some other important political targets. If the Iranians don't realize this, it will be to their own peril.
The Ayatollahs are threatening, and the Coward Country USA is shaking in its boots, more abject than even the English were in Munich 70 years ago. Worse, the Big American Coward is also restraining Israel, not letting it strike for its own survival and for that of the United States and Europe.
Ruslan Tokhchukov, EnragedSince1999.
Not so long ago, Israel celebrated its 60th birthday, much to the chagrin of a sizeable portion of the world, who foolishly think that if Israel suddenly vanished tomorrow, there would be peace.
Now lets go back 70 years to Munich. The dumb populaces of Britain and France, along with their equally dumb politicians, with the conspicuous exception of Winston Churchill, thought there would be peace if only Czechoslovakia was thrown under the bus. The Sudetenland was handed over to an expanded Greater Germany which had already included Austria a few months earlier following the Anschluss, and Chamberlain on his return to Britain waved the infamous scrap of paper and proclaimed "Peace in our time", whilst Churchill was heckled for saying it as it is - that we had suffered a great defeat and that we were weighed in the balance and found wanting. Six months later, Chamberlain moaned that he had been deceived when Nazi Germany swallowed up the rest of Czechoslovakia, and the countdown to world war and the loss of over 60 million lives began.
Now forward we go to 2008. The equally dumb populaces of Britain, France, indeed pretty much all of Europe and a disturbing percentage of North Americans think that if we would only give Israel the Czechoslovakia treatment and demand they commit suicide, we will once again have 'peace in our time'. Throwing countries like Czechoslovakia and Israel to the wolves doesn't get us peace - all it does is make our enemies greedy for more. And if Hizbollah, Hamas and Fatah get their wish to divide up Israel just like Nazi Germany and the Soviet Union carved up Poland in 1939, what would that give us? I'll tell you. It will turn Islamic terrorist outfits into terrorist nuclear powers, all of them hell bent on our annihilation. Just imagine, these outfits having Israel's arsenal of 200 or 300 nukes in their hands. Will you sleep easily in your beds, knowing that a few published cartoons might well mean the total destruction of your city - even your country? I certainly won't. And that is why Israel MUST survive intact. It is the gateway to the West, and if Israel goes, our demise won't be far behind.
Now back in 1948, the bitter memories of World War II were fresh in the minds of those who survived the Holocaust. One in three of the world's Jews were murdered by the Nazis. But the Nazis couldn't have carried out this mass murder of a peaceful and intelligent people without the assistance of the populations of occupied Europe. This is what Israelis remember Europeans for - the Holocaust and how they were betrayed by the rest of the non-Jewish population, and while Europeans mean no more wars when they say "Never Again", the phrase "Never Again" means no more Holocausts to the Israelis. And Israelis owe us nothing after the horrors of the Holocaust, and the dreadful treatment they suffered at the hands of bitter and twisted antisemites, even before World War II. They never forgot how the Governments of Britain, Canada and the US turned away ships full of Jews, thereby sentencing thousands of them to certain death. And, much to their disappointment, they can see history repeating itself again. And the old antisemitism of 1930s Europe is rearing its ugly head again. Hardly a day goes by without slanderous anti-Israeli remarks appearing in our press and media and uttered by our populations on all manner of messageboards. Whenever the Israelis act in self-defence, all the Jew-hatred that wouldn't be out of place in Nazi Germany pours from every orifice. But the six million Israelis are far braver than the 380 million Europeans who try to deny them their right to exist, and resent being told that they should have their cities fired on by thousands of Katyushas without response. And contrast the treatment of Israel two years ago by our media with that of China six months ago against the Tibetans. And we know why this is so. We aren't afraid of denying the right of six million Israelis to have their own country, but we are scared stiff of saying a wrong word against 1.4 billion Chinese. Size matters, and don't we know it?
And if there is one thing the harsh lessons of 1939-45 and beyond have taught the Israelis, it is that they must always be ready for war. If Israel's enemies laid down their arms, there would be peace, but if the Israelis laid down their weapons, then Israel would cease to exist. And they know it. Arab armies have tried to overwhelm that country in 1948, 1956, 1967 and 1973 and failed, whilst terrorists have waged war against Israeli Jews since before Israel came into existence. And the Arab failure to destroy Israel - the only free and progressive country in the Middle East with equal rights rankles. The Israelis stopped Saddam Husseins nuclear ambitions in 1982, now they are faced with the task of doing the same to Ahmadinejad sometime in the near future. We wish them well.
The last time a NATION attacked a US Naval Fleet was Dec. 7, 1941. The NATION was Japan. The US response to that attack happened in Aug. 1945 with the bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki. This MUST be explained somehow to the Ayatollahs. The US is a Sleeping Giant, and when aroused it will be filled with a terrible resolve.
The last time a NATION attacked a US Naval Fleet was Dec. 7, 1941. The NATION was Japan. The US response to that attack happened in Aug. 1945 with the bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki. This MUST be explained somehow to the Ayatollahs. The US is a Sleeping Giant, and when aroused it will be filled with a terrible resolve.
But the difference between 1941 and today is that if the US gets aroused and filled with a terrible resolve, the bleeding heart liberals will come out in force and sput the innocent civilians mantra all over again.
The last time a NATION attacked a US Naval Fleet was Dec. 7, 1941. The NATION was Japan. The US response to that attack happened in Aug. 1945 with the bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki. This MUST be explained somehow to the Ayatollahs. The US is a Sleeping Giant, and when aroused it will be filled with a terrible resolve.
But the difference between 1941 and today is that if the US gets aroused and filled with a terrible resolve, the bleeding heart liberals will come out in force and spout the innocent civilians mantra all over again.
For Israel heading-off the successful production of nuclear weapons by Iran is a life-and-death matter, and immediately. But beyond that "immediately," and not very far beyond, the heading-off of such production is a matter as grave for the United States and for other Infidel lands. There is the obvious possible use directly by Iran. There is the possible use, through proxies such as Hezbollah, which has agents in North and South America. Policies could be held hostage merely by a regime known to be wild, and known for including in its rulers those who do indeed think the price that they might have to pay for attacking Israel (or another Infidel target, or target that would damage Infidel interests) would be well worth it, permanent glory in the annals of Islam, permanent martyrdom with the girls and the pearly boys and the plash of the fountains in the sensual Muhammadan heaven.
That being the case, it is short-sighted and it is cruel for those Infidels, and for the Americans especially, who have all manner of planes and missiles and intelligence-gathering from on high, not to deal with the matter themselves, but to wait for Israel to deal with it, apparently alone, and if we are to believe some reports in the news -- it's hard to know what to make of such reports, but I think they may not be a smokescreen, as some devoutly hope --there are those in the American military who, unable to recognize the fiasco of Iraq, much less draw the appropriate conclusions from it, and as some of them have put it, now have their "hands full" with both that fiasco and the other, smaller fiasco in Afghanistan, want Israel to refrain from attacking so that, apparently, the failed policies that have been tried should be allowed to stand in the way of policies -- such as Israel's attack on the Osirak reactor in 1980, and its attack this year on al-Kibar in Syria, a nuclear installation -- that have been, as the ads for various medications say, clinically proven to be effective.
There are only two things that need be done by Infidels in the Middle East.
One, the most important, is to keep Muslim states from acquiring certain kinds of weaponry. That argument was so powerful, that it was justification enough -- if there was evidence enough (it appears that there was not, that the books were cooked, but who even now knows for sure?)-- to invade Iraq, and destroy all such weapons projects; it was no justification at all for remaining in Iraq for the whole absurd bringing-freedom-to-ordinary-moms-and-dads policy that has, since early 2004, squandered men's lives, money, materiel, and morale both civilian and military.
The other goal should be wherever possible to exploit the pre-existing fissures within the Camp of Islam. These are mainly three.
The first is the sectarian fissure (the Shi'a constitute 10-15% of the world's Muslims, but in Iraq they constitute 60-65% of the population, and in Iran more than 90%, and there are worrisome -- for Sunnis -- Shi'a populations in Bahrain, Kuwait, Yemen, eastern Saudi Arabia, and Lebanon. That makes for a more evenly-match fight, one that could go on for a long time, and simmer rather than necessarily either bubble over, or simply evaporate.
The second is the ethnic conflict, resulting from the long Arab mistreatment of the Kurds, including the mass murder, in the Al Anfal campaign, in which 182,000 Kurds were murdered by Arabs, and before, during, and after which there was wholesale movement of Arabs into Kurdish areas and no Arabs, save the unique example of Kanan Makiya, appear to have been bothered one whit. An independent Kurdistan would show it possible to the 80% of the world's Muslims who can be made to see, gradually, what we all know to be true: that Islam is a vehicle for Arab supremacism, a supremacism that begins but does not end, with linguistic and cultural imperialism.
The third is the resentment of the have-nots among the Muslims to the haves, and that means, even within Arab Islam, the envy and rage felt by the superior Northern Arabs -- in the historic centers of Arab culture, in Egypt, Syria, Lebanon, to what those who are disguising, one sometimes feels, their own discontent with Islam, as one of discontent with the "primitive Islam of the desert" that Saudi Arabs, and the Gulf Arabs, all spread, and it is more maddening to the poorer Arabs, who offer themselves the consolation of being "more cultured" than the Southern Arabs, who merely demonstrate that "money can buy everything....except civilization."
These are the things that Iraq stands for. And Israel should not hesitate to do what its intelligent leaders (that leaves off Olmert, for example) think must be done to head off a mortal threat, and not to endure having to put their own people into a state of maximum imperilment because of Tarbaby Iraq, and its folly.
There used to be a place, some decades ago, called Kirkland Cleansers on Kirkland Street in Cambridge, Mass. You could do your clothes there yourself, feeding quarters to the washers and dryers that were there. Or you could leave your clothes off, and someone there, for a fee, would wash them, dry them, fold them for you, even possibly iron those items that needed ironing.
The ad for the place had a motto that was hardly composed by some genius of Madison Avenue. It was downright awkward. But it made its point about the two possibilities the modest establishment offered: "You Do It, Or We Do It."
That is what Israel is saying: You Do It, Or We Do It.
Lions and tigers and bears oh my!
Really?
Perhaps the RG should be given a slice of the pie?
Who knows what's true or not -- I think there is a lot of BS out there and that all the war talk is a dog and pony show for public consumption.
One the other hand, I would not trust syria, hammas, hizballa or any of their ilk -- I believe that if a fire starts - they will be holding the matches and the gasoline.
It makes me wonder: If the destruction of Saddam's "secular" government brought the Islamists out to fight there, what will happen in Iran? Will the secularists come out to fight?
Stupid is as stupid does.
IF this happens, wave bye bye to $150 a barrel oil and say hello to $200 at least ;o(
For the life of me I can't understand why we tolerate this drivel from Iran. Let's just get it done and move on.
HUGH: "That is what Israel is saying: You Do It, Or We Do It."
Then Israel better prepare to act...because Rice is a dove on the issue....and she has the President's ear. Neither has stomach for a new conflict.
The Israeli people must understand, if their political leaders still do not, that the US State Dept and Pentagon have been infiltrated and deeply compromised by persons who do not have Israel's best interests (nor America's, for that matter) at heart. They must "do what must be done", and then ask for US 'forgiveness' afterward.
Israel will do what is right for them, right after they give the boot to Olmert.
Iran has said that it would retaliate against any pre-emptive attack on its nuclear facilities by “burning” the Israeli city of Tel Aviv and American shipping in the Persian Gulf.
this saber rattling makes me wounder has the nutcase in DNK given the nukes he had to the mad mullas to make it look like he has given up his nukes i wounder?since a nuke or carpet bombing and the iranians have not got the bombs or aircraft to do that
Iran has said that it would retaliate against any pre-emptive attack on its nuclear facilities by “burning” the Israeli city of Tel Aviv and American shipping in the Persian Gulf.
this saber rattling makes me wounder has the nutcase in DNK given the nukes he had to the mad mullas to make it look like he has given up his nukes i wounder?since a nuke or carpet bombing is needed to make tel aviv burn and the iranians have not got the bombs or aircraft to do that
"We could however cause a decade or so of recovery to Iran's infrastructure, take out a few hundred Mullahs in their "religious compounds", the Presidential palace, and some other important political targets. If the Iranians don't realize this, it will be to their own peril."
by James Martel
"But the Nazis couldn't have carried out this mass murder of a peaceful and intelligent people without the assistance of the populations of occupied Europe."
Posted by: Spirit Of 1683
It's time we stopped trying to wage pristine warfare. The Iranian people support this regime. There are no "innocent civilians". Islam doesn't recognize them anywhere else so why are we even suggesting that in Iran? They said the Towers were a valid target because the people in them were "supporting the American system".
Sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander. Iran's nuclear program could not exist and the mullah-led government could not function without the support of ordinary Iranians. From the scientists to the streetsweepers, all do their part to further the cause of the Islamic republic. This isn't a project of the mullahs. It's a project of the Iranian people. If they're so proud of their nuclear program they should be prepared to accept the consequences of foolishness on the part of the mullahs. Or are the people just too proud to say anything bad against the sweet shia leadership that they stupidly supported in 1979? They made their bed. It's time to lie in it.
If THEY don't stop the mullahs or the program and something bad happens then they should be prepared to live with a pile of rubble formerly known as Tehran. Who knows? It might bring forth their imam from whatever well he fell into.
The Iranians are not oppressed. They brought down a government once before. They can do it again. No excuses. We keep hearing how pro-Western they really are. Let them prove it.
What are president/commander-in-chief, Secretary of State doing about this?
In rhetoric which further raises the temperature in the Islamic Republic's stand-off with the West, an aide to Ayatollah Ali Khamenei, the Supreme Leader, today emphasised that his country would not hesitate to spark off a regional war if any state tried to destroy its programme.
......................
One thing you hear over and over from liberal pundits--and even mainstream pundits--is that one should not take the ugly rhetoric of Iranian president Mahmood Ahmadinejad too seriously, because he might not be reelected, and, after all, the real power in Iran is with the mullahs, not the president.
If one just paid attention to such opinions, one would come to the conclusion that the mullahs are quite moderate fellows, unlike that crazy unpopular fire-brand Ahmadinejad. Surely no one takes him very seriously, except for alarmist American neocons, who, as everyone knows, are almost as crazy as Ahmadinejad is, but without the excuse of coming from a land known for its "colorful" rhetoric. (/sarc)
Well, the above statement *does* come from the mullahs--in fact, from an aide to Iran's supreme Ayatollah. I'm sure that few people here at JW were surprised by its ugly contents, but maybe it will wake up a few other people to the broad threat to the free world--especially Israel and the U.S.--that Iran represents.
Supreme Leader Al-Khomenei calls himself "the leader of the Muslims", that is to say all Muslims, by authority of the ancient Caliphs.
It is the Mullahs who see themselves as the revolutionary vanguard about to transform the world (culminating in the reappearance of the 12th Imam). Khomeini said in 1979 "we do not worship Iran. We worship Allah. For patriotism is another name for paganism. I say let this land burn. I say let this land go up in smoke, provided Islam emerges triumphant in the rest of the world." It wasn't the clown president but Rafsanjani who said nuking Israel would be worth whatever Iran suffered in return.
We've been negotiating since 1979 with the Mullahs. Only there is nothing to negotiate.
Iran has declared war and waged war on the United States, directly and indirectly, for years. They also think they are winning (an opinion they may need to revise soon).
Maybe we would have to sink the Iranian Navy in six minutes...again. Chew on that senior mullah.
As someone else pointed out here not long ago...
Iran fought Iraq with all it had for 8 years and managed a stalemate. millions dead.
The United States Armed Forces destroyed Iraqs combined military forces in 3 days. Does this tell you anything?
And I bleeb it was Imadinnajacket that said that he would gladly sacrifice 2/3 of Iran to destroy Israel.
Twit. He has no concept of what a modern Thermonuclear device is capable of.
Ever seen the old flick where they fire a nuke out of the barrel of a 105 Howitzer? You know...the little artillery piece you see towed around behind a Jeep in WWII footage. And that was in the late 50's.
One can only imagine what a tactical Nuke looks like nowadays...or the many ways one might be delivered.
Never mind nukes. Eyes in the sky is where it's at. Take the head off and the snake dies.
It's true enough that the Iranian people have not risen up and taken their country back from the Ayatoilets. However...one can be sure that if that did take place, blood would flow. This fact may be discouraging them from taking action.
However...
Regardless of guilt or innocence in supporting the Mullahs...the Wheat will fall with the Weeds. Ya can't walk among the two and separate one from the other. All must be plowed under to kill the weeds.
That truly sucks. That so many people must die because of a POS like Mo, is insane...nothing less.
I can only hope that they find the strength to take back their lives before they are abruptly ended.
"The US is a Sleeping Giant, and when aroused it will be filled with a terrible resolve."
With a Musim by the name of Hussein Barrack at the helm there will not be any resolve...
"With a Musim by the name of Hussein Barrack at the helm there will not be any resolve..."
I'm afraid you're right. Terrified in fact.
If the leadership looks to fail, the people of our nations should be standing up and shaking off their complacency. Why wait until something happens? Elect people who will watch our backs today!
Obama won't do it. Count on THAT.
We've forgotten once again how much we can lose.
We should immediately destroy Iranian nuclear facilities and sieze their oil assets, as well as bomb their military infrastructure.
I've read that it's Gates and Rice (of course) among others who oppose destroying the nukes, and have warned Israel not to act, Cheney disagrees, Bush goes along.
This shows that our priorites are wrong: We will not protect against a mortal danger in Iran to further the democracy project in Iraq. Which is more important, or more likely to succeed?
We know Iran doesn't care about the Palestinians and neither do those who have been arming them for forty-plus years. But do any of these dimwits care about themselves?
That area is not that huge. Any attack on Israel will affect the neighboring states, regardless of what Israel does to Iran in a counterattack. Do any of THEM care what Iran is doing?
If they won't say anything publicly and they won't support the US publicly then why should we give a rat's behind about any of them?
Same as the Iranian people. None of them are innocent.
What a choice we've given ourselves in November:
Tweedle-Dum and Tweedle-Dee.
Either way we're going to lose. The kicker is we deserve to. We (through our primaries) chose these lamebrains.
I would not trust anyone in Iran, even the shoe shine boy on the corner, to tell me the truth about much of anything. The mad mullahs are masters of deceit. They are playing the weak minded leaders of the west, like a fine tuned violin. The mad mullahs are smarter than Bush/Rice/Olmert, and the rest of the inept people running the west.
It's possible that Iran has more muscle than anyone thinks. It is not too bright of a military move to have all those Navy ships in close proximity. The US has a huge amount of men and material in the area. I don't think Iran was kidding about attacking these targets.
If the US/Israel attack Iran, they should do it in such a way as to disable any serious counter attack, and destroy the will to launch one...
Expect the unexpected, I'm assuming a major disruption of the Chinese Olympics that will throw the big-cat amongst the fluttering pigeons. Just imagine, a real player in the war on a tactic...
Hugh
Crudely, but more to the point-----
Israel will do it, as no one else has the balls.
Political gutlessness orchestrated from the comfort of a safe distance.
Armechair cowards.
As long as Obama promises not to meet with Iran while they develop nukes we are fine. The press has to keep total focus on this single issue, which is all that matters.
For the benefit of those who may be unaware or have forgotten,(including the Iranian leadership apparently) America's 1987 "forgotten tanker war" could provide a glimpse of what could be revisited upon the Iranian navy some twenty one years later. Mines and speed boats weren't sufficient enough then,perhaps now Iran's best chance will be the US state dept. and politicians devoid of the Reagan touch.
We seem to have the wrong Secretary of Defense for these serious times.
Gates seems to be of the James Baker/Brent Skowcroft mindset?
Those who choose not to confront Iran now,are making what could be the GRAVEST MISTAKE in History. If they get the BOMB, they will be MORE Dangerous than Hitler!
Watching the Leader of the Iranian Revolutionary Guards at the Missle Launch with his "staff",and HEARING HIS THREATS, felt like a 2008 update of Nazi REICHSFUEHRER-SS Heinrich Himmler , Reinhard Heydrich and co.
Iran is betting that "the world" will be too angered and frightened by the prospect of sky-high oil and the threat of economic recession to allow Israel to put an end to their plan of genocide against the Jewish State. The mullahs want to create as much mayhem as possible and then blame the Israelis for any consequences that ensue. But the Jews will not go to their deaths this time while the world yawns. Iran has no inkling as to Israel's resolve in the wake of Jewish history. Despite Olmert's managerial style, he will hit them hard when it comes down to it. The one thing that concerns me is the American bases in the region. Can they be protected in a war?
Iran wants us to believe they cannot.