Okay, before anyone asks why this is on Jihad Watch—after all, “arranged” marriages do not necessarily have anything to do with Islam—bear in mind that a Pakistani (read: Muslim) parent that is “conservative” enough to want to arrange a marriage for their daughter, is usually the same sort that takes Islam seriously. And even if this family in particular is not Muslim, although we learn below that "Piccola" does wear a headscarf, this story epitomizes the problem Muslim immigrants are posing in the West: they're bringing their culture with them rather than accepting the cultural norms of their new home.
To Muslim immigrants who feel this way there is but one question: If you are so sincere about your faith and culture, why do you voluntarily relocate to the “immoral” and infidel West, where there is always a great risk your children will be “lured” into a state of debauched infidelity? Is prosperity, that primary stated motivation for relocating to the West, more important than your children’s moral/spiritual well-being?
“Pakistani girl who jumped from balcony 'wants Italian citizenship,'” from AKI, July 3 (thanks to C.C.):
Alessandria, 3 July (AKI) - A 15-year-old Pakistani girl who jumped from a balcony in northern Italy after refusing an arranged marriage says she wants to become an Italian citizen."I no longer want to be Pakistani," said the girl, named only as 'Piccola' by Turin-based daily La Stampa.
An investigation is being opened into Piccola's desperate attempt to escape the future her parents planned for her - marriage to a teenage Pakistani cousin.
"They had agreed to marry me to my cousin, a 16-year-old who I don't love," she said.
Piccola is currently in hospital with a broken leg after leaping from her family's balcony in the town of Alessandria.
Piccola, who has grown up in Italy, is said to be well integrated here. She wears western-style clothes as well as a headscarf and has Italian friends.
To all American Jihad / Dhimmi Watchers and posters, Happy Fourth of July!
May the United States of America continue to be a bastion of freedom in an uncertain world. This Canadian cousin salutes you!
a young girl has seen both sides of the fence, and she has chosen what she , as a unique individual with a mind of her own, what and where she wants to be. And being Muslim ain't it.
To Muslim immigrants who feel this way there is but one question: If you are so sincere about your faith and culture, why do you voluntarily relocate to the “immoral” and infidel West, where there is always a great risk your children will be “lured” into a state of debauched infidelity? Is prosperity, that primary stated motivation for relocating to the West, more important than your children’s moral/spiritual well-being?
Logic and truth you will not get
You will get a gale of hot air and rhetoric shifting the blame onto you the infidel
The Muslim answer to you will be incoherent, contradictory, full of self justification, references to Muslim civil rights in America and the West
"If you are so sincere about your faith and culture, why do you voluntarily relocate to the “immoral” and infidel West..." --Raymond
I've asked this question many times on various sites, including JW, and since the answer isn't PC, it usually gets deleted or not even posted.
Here's how I say it: "Since you love Islam so much, why don't you live in an Islamic country? Why do you move to the Infidel Lands?"
Whoa - that's just a no-no question, though of course it's perfectly logical, because it implies that Mohammedans are hypocrites. And we can't have any "insulting" of Mohammedans, now, can we?
I think also we're not supposed to be noticing that Mohammedans are Westward Ho! in droves, because that would be racist, as though we have a problem with that, and God Forbid we should have a problem with that, because they're just like us, we're all the same, and it's just a religion, and a religion of peace, too!
Darcy
Just as Muslims claim Muhammad was "the perfect man" they feel the same way about themselves. At least as they relate to infidels. They are perfect compared to the infidel and to lord over him like a mini-me-Muhammad is the ultimate objective
Islam is lost without pecking orders
Allah= #1 dictator
Muhammad = #2 dictator who takes orders from Allah
Muslims = #3 dictator. They take orders from Muhammad and his bogus Koran but in turn get to dictate to infidels.
So the objective of Muslims world wide is to change matters so dhimmis take orders from them
dennis, the answer to my question is that Mohammedans want better lives, so they move to the West. But, they can't admit to that because it's saying Islam isn't perfect.
I think the secondary goal is world hegemony, but first they go for the better lives.
Darcy
We know the answer. It's the money here. In USA at least there is colossal tax evasion by them according to Debbie Schlussel
A few come here to get away from a repressive regime but then they or their sons revert back to strict Islam and or demanding from the infidel
So never will you get a straight answer from a Muslim. If he perceives you as being a liberal he will tell sob stories about why he came here.
Arranged (forced) marriages are a form of slavery unless the lovely couple agree. In this case the girl rebelled. The Italians should award her citizenship and protect her from her 'family', who's honor has been assaulted, by her refusal and action.
I hope there are police guards at her hospital door.
Murder in hospital, by shamed muslim families is not unheard of...
She's a gonna...
Arranged (forced) marriages are a form of slavery unless the lovely couple agree. In this case the girl rebelled. The Italians should award her citizenship and protect her from her 'family', who's honor has been assaulted, by her refusal and action.
What you really do is evict her freak family, send them back to allah land. She can stay
The following was posted on the UK's UP POMPEII blog site in response to an item challenging the need for muslim schools.
Iftikhar Ahmad wrote:
Salaam
London School of Islamics is an educational Trust. Its aim is to make
British public, institutions and media aware of the needs and demands of the
Muslim community in the field of education and possible solutions.
Slough Islamic school Trust Slough had a seminar on Muslim
education and schools in Thames Valley Atheltic Centre. The seminar was
addressed by the education spokesman of MCB. I could not attend the seminar
but I believe lot of Muslims from Slough and surrounding areas must have
attended. Very soon, the Muslims of Slough will have a state funded Muslim
school but there is a need for more schools. A day will come when all Muslim
children will attend state funded Muslim schools with bilingual Muslim
teachers as role model.
Muslim schools are not only faith schools but they are more or less
bilingual schools.
Bilingual Muslim children need to learn standard English to follow the
National Curriculum and go for higher studies and research to serve
humanity. They need to be well versed in Arabic to recite and understand the
Holy Quran. They need to be well versed in Urdu and other community
languages to keep in touch with their cultural roots and enjoy the beauty of
their literature and poetry.
Bilingualism is an asset but the British schooling regards it as a
problem. A Muslim is a citizen of this tiny global village. He/she does not
want to become notoriously monolingual Brit. Pakistan is only seven hours
from London and majority of British Muslims are from Pakistan.
More than third of British Muslim have no qualifications. British school
system has been failing large number of Muslims children for the last 60
years. Muslim scholars see the pursuit of knowledge as a duty, with the
Quran containing several verses to the rewards of learning. 33% of British
Muslims of working age have no qualifications and Muslims are also the least
likely to have degrees or equivalent qualifications. Most of estimated
500,000 Muslim school-aged pupils in England and Wales are educated in the
state system with non-Muslim monolingual teachers. Majority of them are
underachievers because they are at a wrong place at a wrong time.
Bilingual Muslim children need state funded Muslim schools with bilingual
Muslim teachers during their developmental periods. There is no place for a
non-Muslim child or a teacher in a Muslim school. As far as higher education
is concerned, Muslim students can be educated with others. Let Muslim
community educate its own children so that they can develop their own
Islamic, cultural and linguistic identities and become usefull members of
the British society rather than becoming a buden.
We are living in an English speaking country and English is an
international language, therefore, we want our children to learn and be well
versed in standard English and at the same time well versed in Arabic, Urdu
and other community languages. Is there anything wrong with this approach?
COMMENT
Sums up their atitude to our rich diverse cultural society quite well - "We don't want to know we are muslims"
What you really do is evict her freak family, send them back to allah land. She can stay
Posted by: dennisw
Yes, and send all their cousins, uncles, brothers and sisters, friends and fellow muslims, on the same bus(s) to Pakistan...or some other Islamic paradise...
I forgot to say
"More than third of British Muslim have no qualifications."
This may be true as a bare statistic but even the BBC felt compelled to say this is because they do not want girls to be educated. So the female half never get a chance to be educated thereby unbalancing the figures.
For each and every Muslim family across Europe, there is another 16 year old female going through this same thing. More and more governments need to "open investigations" into this serious problem or more and more 16 year olds will be jumping off balconies.
TOtally agree Ladywolfnl, the parents should be arrested, thrown in gaol for 10 years and their assets given to the 16 year old girl.
Of course immigrants ought to adopt the native culture of their new land to maximize harmony. But no Western states require that immigrants do so.
A fundamental right of the individual is to decide for himself his religion, culture, etc. The individual immigrant has the right do throw away his old culture, keep his old culture (to the extent it does not prescribe acts proscribed by the local laws), or something between the two extremes.
Muslims in Western society are free to keep their "culture", but they must accept the cost of it in ostracism and conflict with local laws.
OT
Oct 28 2003
Have read "Islam Unveiled". All good luck to you in your blog and website.
Posted by: dennisw
dennisw, this must make you one of the first jihadwatchers?
Happy 4th July to America.
Dsinc
Yes I have read, posted at Jihadwatch since the beginning. I was always reading LGF-Little Green Footballs and the owner Charles Johnson announced the start of Jihadwatch DhimmiWatch. Charles designed this site
90% of what I know about Islam I learned here at the feet of masters, Robert Sp. and Hugh Fitzgerald
This issue with arranged marriages is hardly unique to Islam. The greater problem is consanguinity.
The following article differentiates between 'arranged marriages' and 'forced marriages'.
http://www.neurology-asia.org/articles/20073_015.pdf
The simple solution is to ban consanguineous marriage and ENFORCE the ban; do DNA testing on immigration applicants and disallow couples that are closely related. There's absolutely no reason that the general population should be picking up the healthcare tab for a problem that's been known about for eons.
http://article.nationalreview.com/?q=OWYyMDhkOWYwOWU4YWZlMTkwMWEzMDY0MTA0MGM0YmY=
Stanley Kurtz has shed new light on Muslim first cousin marriage
_______________
In this first in a series of essays on Muslim cousin-marriage, I want to begin to make the case that Muslim kinship structure is an unexamined key to the war on terror. While the character of Islam itself is unquestionably one of the critical forces driving our global conflict, the nature of Islamic kinship and social structure is at least as important a factor — although this latter cluster of issues has received relatively little attention in public debate. Understanding the role of Middle Eastern kinship and social structure in driving the war not only throws light on the weaknesses of arguments like D’Souza’s, it may also help us devise a new long-term strategy for victory in the war on terror.
Self-Sealing Society
Think of the culture of the Muslim Middle East as “self-sealing.” Muslim society has a deep-lying bias toward in-group solidarity, the negative face of which manifests itself in a series of powerful mechanisms for preventing, coercing, or punishing those who would break with or undermine the in-group and its customs. This bias toward in-group solidarity serves to shelter Muslim society from interaction with the forces of modernity, and also explains why Muslim immigrants so often fail to assimilate. Of course, no society can function without some sort of “in-group solidarity.” Yet the Muslim world is truly distinctive on this score. When it comes to the core principles of kinship, Muslim practices strengthen and protect the integrity and continuity of the in-group in a way that sets the Middle East apart from every other society in the world. To appreciate this fact, we’ve first got to understand some fundamental things about the nature of kinship.
For the greater part of human history, nearly every society has been organized into units based on kin ties. Modern life greatly reduces the significance of these ties, since capitalism tends to allocate jobs based on ability (instead of who your father is), while democracies apply laws, and assign benefits, on the principle of equal citizenship (not birth). By contrast, in most traditional societies, a man’s security, health, prosperity, and religious standing all depend, first and foremost, on his relatives.......SNIP
Maybe she saw an "honor killing" in the cards and decided to scram before it happened.
Maybe she read the story about Amina and Sarah?
I had a muslim paki neighbor. When questioned why he came to the US, he said his work (software engineer) brought him here. He worked for Pfizer.
His wife, 3 sons, and father came also. They lived on a circle and blocked all the other drives with cars whenever their co-religionists came to meet (always on Thursday).
I have since moved. My agent was given strict orders never to show the house on Thursdays. Two other paki families have since bought there. Glad I got out.
>His wife, 3 sons, and father came also. They lived on a circle and blocked all the other drives with cars whenever their co-religionists came to meet (always on Thursday)
Lots of bad new coming out of the UK recently..
http://www.mailonsunday.co.uk/news/article-1031784/Schoolboys-punished-detention-refusing-kneel-pray-Allah.html
I just found this on Michael Savage's website. I looked around on here to make sure I am not posting something redundant here.
I think it kind of fits in with this story.. English children in ENGLAND becoming "islamized" at an ENGLISH school!
We KNOW why these monsters come to the West.
They are islamizing US way faster than any of their offspring are becoming Westernized.
We are losing this race against time.
NO more family unifications and no more "immigration"
Period.
We need a moratorium on all this nonsense!
Pakistan has a large landmass they need to know how to support themselves over there!
We are NOT responsible for feeding Turkey, Pakistan and various other Najistans around the world!
Anyone who doesn't like it can leave our countries freely and go back home.
The real issue here - is money and status. Almost every Muslim family in Europe and likely soon America (if they are allowed) - marries their child off to a cousin back in the old country.
When they look at their daughters all they see is a western passport - the aim is to use that child to bring another person into the western world - from the third world.
For this reason they need to control the children - especially the girls as their worth is in the - arranged marriage - which is also a sale.
This is where a lot of the girls are tricked - told they are going on vacation - particularly to Pakistan and then left there sometimes in squalid conditions married to - who knows - because the girl doesn't have a choice in the matter - but once the deal is done - she is often abandoned there - until the papers are arranged to bring the new partner back to the west.
These girls and often guys commit suicide - or are beaten and forced to go along with these immigration schemes. This is one of the ways the Muslim population is growing so fast in Europe and likely soon in the US - as they are not only having more children - but they are marrying abroad each time - sometimes multiple times. A few European countries have taken steps to restrict these marriages with some success.
Someone needs to post a guard outside this girl's hospital room and her parent's need to be kept out of the hospital. When a Muslim girl named Suoad was doused with gasoline and set on fire by her brother-in-law in an attempted honor killing, she ran out of her house and the women of her village put the fire out and got her to a hospital. Her mother came to visit her and encouraged her to drink a vial of poison, since if she had inconvenienced the family by not dying and if she lived her brother-in-law might get into trouble. A doctor walked in at that moment, kicked the mother out and gave strict instructions that the parents not be allowed back in the hospital.
Today Souad lives in Europe, has a great husband and three kids because the doctor saw that she was a person with a life worth living and did the right thing. Somebody please protect this little girl.
DID she jump or was she pushed?
I'll only believe she jumped, if non-Muslim Italians saw her do it and no-one else was anywhere near her on that balcony.
For anyone who doesn't know Italian, 'Piccola' is the feminine form of the Italian word for 'small, little'.
So the Italian press are calling her "Little One [female]".
One thing that's always struck me is why doesn't US immigration filter out America haters in other countries, flag them, and ensure that they never get to come here, no matter what? If anything, the US should also be exploring ways of sending domestic America haters like Michael Moore, Jeremiah Wright, Louis Farrakhan, Cynthia McKinney, et al to other countries of their choice, stripping them of their citizenship and barring their way in. If enough domestic America haters were likewise deported, America-lovers from other countries who wanted to immigrate to the US could then migrate in much larger numbers. While that could potentially upset the ethnic balance somewhat, it would ensure an US where despite political differences (to a sane point), people would have shared values as to the greatness of this country - something not unanimously in the current crop.
Poor kid. It's not being Pakistani that's the problem--it's being Muslim. An Italian citizenship won't help that.
Also, the term 'arranged marriage' is an euphemism when used to describe Mohammedans who marry off their daughters/sisters to their handpicked choices. Usually, the term is an innocuous one that implies that a person's family is involved in bringing about the introduction between the prospective bride and groom, and from there on, it's the choice of the prospective spouses as to whether they want to go ahead with it or keep looking. This is as opposed to a 'love marriage' where the two get to meet on their own without family involvement (college, workplace, other hobbies, et al), hit it off, and only involve the family in the actual nuptial rituals. In other words, the relatives are merely playing a role similar to E-harmony, match.com, classifieds. In some more traditional (non-Mohammedan) societies, families may sometimes have more filtering (read veto) power as to who doesn't get selected (which in turn may lead to grief of its own), but nonetheless, the role of the family in an arranged marriage is typically a limited one. Also, the family in such cases only starts making arrangements if and when the prospective spouse in question wants/requests it: they don't typically do it just on their whims.
In short, while several people may well frown on arranged marriages as being a throwback to times when women had less freedom than they do today, it's worth recognizing that even arranged marriages offer women getting married similar freedoms in that they ultimately get to marry their choice. The worst that can be said against arranged marriages is that the women in question are coaxed into preferring a married life to one where they stay single and singlemindedly pursue their careers. (This could upset some feminists, but it's nothing like forcing a woman to marry someone she doesn't want to.)
Now contrast all this to the Mohammedan marriages. Here, you have the entire clan pretty much determining and dictating everything - when to dump the girl, which cousin to marry her off to, et al. Here, the girl has pretty much no say in when or who (let alone whether) she marries, and if she even prefers another Mohammedan (let alone an Infidel or a Westerner), she is likely to come to grief - be it beatings, honor killings, whatever. As it is, in Islam, the woman's sole role is to breed future Mohammedans. Add to that the role of satisfying family whims, whether it's abujan (thanks Naseem) wanting to strengthen his friendship with that old pal and gift that pal's son his daughter, or satisfying the wants of that nephew of his who just can't seem to find anybody. And God, er Allah, help the tilth who chooses to present her womb wealth (thanks Morgaan) to someone other than their chosen ones.
To make a long story short, Mohammedan marriages are Mohammedan marriages, not arranged marriages.
I am in agreement with this girl that she should be able to drop an ethnicity and choose another just like one drops an Internet Service Provider that stinks, and gets another. To think ethnicity is genetic or unalterable is idiotic. This is most obvious in the case here, ironically, since Pakistanis were Indians once but were Arabized by Muslim invaders. If it ain't working, can't be reformed, then replace it.
http://www.bravenewsworld.blogspot.com
Infidel Pride,
I think the issue with your Communist roommate is one of do as I say, not as I do. Perhaps he likes the idea of being a revolutionary, hates his parents and the establishment they stand for, or maybe just spent one too many years being indoctrinated in one of our universities. But the fact is that given the choice to live anywhere, he chooses to live here. If he was really committed to his ideals he could practice what he preaches and move to China or Viet Nam, or Cuba for that matter. It's easy to passionately promote a theory when you don't have to live with it's consequences. Of course there is always the option that the Muslims have chosen, and that is to destroy us from within by stealth. I wonder what your friend will do when he can't drive his cool car or go to Starbucks anymore. Or is he one of the ones who this applies to, that everyone is equal, but some are more equal than others?
I've been racking my brain to try and figure out why Muslim women who live in America, go through the university system and get good paying jobs are working behind the scenes to destroy the lives they are building. I understand that like your friend, they live in a much freer atmosphere, living over here, that they can come and go for the most part as they please, but they've got to know what their female relatives live like back in the old country. They've got to know that their dad's, brother's and husbands go along with this to fake out the infidels, and not even all the time, as in the case of Sarah and Amina Said. Are they really so motivated to overthrow our government so that they can light a match to their diplomas and march quietly back to the stone age, six steps behind their husbands? Or is it like your roommate, they think they will be the ones ruling the world and Islam won't effect them like it does everybody else? I sure wouldn't want to take that chance.
Isabella
The person I'm referring to was a geezer, with a Statue of Lenin sized chip on his shoulder. He was one of the 'gimme' types, who believed that it was everybody else's job to provide for him. And although he wasn't a Mohammedan, he was still one of those Jeremiah Wright types who hated everything about this country, had trouble holding down jobs, had no compunctions cheating, et al. I was glad to be rid of him, even though we were roommates for just 3 months (although it felt like 3 years).
Their problem is that they have an effete, elitist view of the world, and how it should be, and support altering it to their world view. As far as Islam went, he looked at them as victims of Western (and Indian) imperialism - there just was no arguing him out of that, as I found out only too quickly. What I was mulling above is that while a lot of people worldwide who love this country's ideals have to either sacrifice to get here or sacrifice the idea of coming here, hateful slobs are not obstructed from coming in the first place. If only every country in the world had only the people that loved it, and nothing more, nothing less...
To make a long story short, Mohammedan marriages are Mohammedan marriages, not arranged marriages.
They are forced marriages and they are *money marriages*. A Paki man in the UK can expect a colossal dowry paid to his family by his bride's family in Pakistan or India. She gets to live in the UK and bring over other family members
The immigration factor has put dowries so out of wack that UK Muslim fathers get huge payments for forcing their daughters to marry Pakistani boys. Daughters are sold off like cattle to get money grubbing dad a big payoff
"...hateful slobs are not obstructed from coming in the first place."
Yeah, why is that? Why don't we ask the real question here, i.e., who is behind letting them in to the detriment of the rest of us, and what is their ultimate purpose? Who is pulling the strings? Is it traitors amongst our own people or is the enemy so entrenched in our government that they are now calling the shots, just like over in jolly Old England?
I was thinking of something else too. My daughter went to an old high school friend's wedding yesterday. The girl is a Muslim. The choice of a wedding date set on the 4th of July did not escape me. For all intents and purposes this is a very sweet girl and she was very excited about the marriage. She has a college degree and works in her chosen field. She doesn't where the veil. She and the new husband bought a house and everything looks rosy for the future. But I can't help wondering if the American Muslim boy she married, who was born and raised here but is of Pakistani descent, will come to claim his right to add wives to the marriage later on. While this was an arranged marriage it appears to also be a love match. But what about down the road when things get boring? And while most Muslims in America don't go against our polygamy laws as of yet, although I've seen some who do, wouldn't it be incumbent on any Muslim man living anywhere on the planet to work towards overthrowing any system that doesn't allow him his extra-chick rights? Since they believe that Mohammad was the perfect man and since he helped himself to lots of extra wives, (so convenient of Allah to allow him as many as he needed,) then it doesn't make sense that the average Muslim man would give up this entitlement and would work to make sure he maintained that right.
The thing about irrationality is that it, well ... doesn't make sense.
Mohammedan culture is deeply irrational -- and promotes and facilitates all sorts of irrationality among its members.
God only knows what passes for logic or reason among those people, and that's assuming that they are thinking at all, which is rather doubtful.
Remember this is a culture in which independence of mind and of judgment in general matters is strongly discouraged.