More pastors continue ignoring Islamic theology in favor of platitudes of peace and harmony. "Baptists, Muslims must work together for a peaceful world," by Robert Parham for the Tennessean, August 4:
When Indonesian Muslims were making intimidating phone calls and threatening churches in 1998, Muslim women at an Islamic boarding school guarded the wife of a Baptist pastor when her husband was out of the country advocating for human rights in Washington.
[...]Before the initiative of Islamic women, Rembeth recalled, "I had been struggling even to relate to my Muslim friends."
But they "really gave me an idea (that) there are some good Muslims, even though there are also some bad Muslims, as much as there are some good Christians and bad Christians."
Yes, among those who identify themselves as Christians and Muslims, there are good and bad people. But what do their respective religions teach, and shouldn't that come into the equation? Christianity: turn the other cheek; return good for evil; pray for those who persecute you. Islam: fight all those who do not believe in Allah and his prophet until they live in submission (Koran 9:29). This flagrant dichotomy is what -- simply a moot point? Indeed, it seems that if anyone was behaving "un-Islamicly," it was the women who sheltered your wife, as they went against the Muslim doctrine of Loyalty (to Muslims) and Enmity (for non-Muslims), more commonly known as al-Wala' we al-Bara'.
But they "really gave me an idea (that) there are some good Muslims, even though there are also some bad Muslims, as much as there are some good Christians and bad Christians."
-- from the article above, quoting a Baptist a little too confusedly grateful for being protected, by marauding Muslims in Indonesia, by a handful of Muslim women
No doubt there were a handful of Germans who may have hidden a few Jews during the Nazi period. So what? Does this make Nazism less bad? And there were even one or two members of the Nazi Party -- see Schindler, see Schindler's List -- who did what they could to save Jews from torture and murder. So what? Does the existence of Schindler mean that the Nazi Party was redeemable, or that membership in that party meant nothing?
The schoolgirl-mentality, the sentimentalism, the obviousness of the observation that not every Muslim is as deep a believer, or participates in the furtherance of the aims of Islam always using the same instruments, or that not every Muslim is a fanatical Muslim, should not make one conclude, as has happened in this case, apparently, that one should march down the primrose path of interfaith-healing "dialogue" that, always and everywhere, somehoe becomes a dialogue of the deaf, in which all the real issues -- what Islam teaches about Infidels and how they are to be treated, and about Dar al-Islam and Dar al-Harb, and about how the essential division of manking is between Believers and Infidels -- are all left out, while "common ground" is found on such d'souzian pieties as "family values" and such battitry as "we oppose decadence."
Good God. No need needs to make himself stupid. There's quite enough stupidity already. It's going around. It's the latest fashion.
Too many Christians think this war is really a beauty contest where their sincere beliefs will win out and Muslims will be drawn to Christ just by the light in their eyes.
Compassion is misunderstood to be the most valued virtue. But what Christians need above all is courage: courage to look evil in the eye, call it by name, and then work to defeat it.
Just like Jesus.
"al-Wala we al-Bara"
I've seen it in action but didn't know the terminology.
Thanks again, Raymond.
Sadly that is the attitude of probably the majority of Indonesian Christians.
Many Indonesian Muslims are not familiar with Muhamad's virulent teachings, they only know what was told/taught them by their imams, which is the good part. Hence, they truly believe that Islam is a 'good' religion and their having a modern outlook iin life is not against Islam. The women hold jobs, don't wear head scarfs, etc. These 'modern' women that wear headscarfs, wear them to show that they are 'good' Muslims. Just like when Muslims wants to pray, he/she would announce whoever is around that he/she is going to pray. For Christians, this would be considered a 'show off' and his sincerety would be questioned. Not so for Muslims, at least in Indonesia. And others who don't would show respect.
The majority of Indonesian Christian's knowledge about Islam's tenets are even less than the Muslims. Their opinion of Islam is based on the persecution the Christians have endured in Indonesia. But having Muslim friends or relatives that don't persecute Christians, who aremoderate, modern, dress 'unMuslim', they (the Christians) think that those were only a fanatic few who did those awful things. In their minds there is a distinct difference between their Muslim friends/ family and the fanatic few who close down/burn churches, kill, etc. This shows in the Baptist pastor's remarks.
There are pastors who are converts from Islam who have been trying for decades to spread the word about the real Islam, but the 'main stream' christian churches are uncomfortable with it. Many of the big churches are trying to appease the Muslims. In some it's for self preservation, others it's due to wilful ignorance or naivety.
If there is a Muslim who helps a Christian in whatever way, or is sympathetic to a Christian, then it always makes big news.
Some of my relatives have married Muslims even though they keep their own religion (Christian). They are uncomfortable hearing me talk about the real tenets of Islam. They are proud of being a multi religious family that live in harmony, and always talk with pride of how their Muslim relatives celebrate Christmas with them and vice versa.
How proud are they of this?
2 Corithians 6:14-18
Do not be unequally yoked with unbelievers. For what partnership has righteousness with lawlessness? Or what fellowship has light with darkness? What accord has Christ with Belial? Or what portion does a believer share with an unbeliever? What agreement has the temple of God with idols? For we are the temple of the living God; as God said,
"I will make my dwelling among them and walk among them,
and I will be their God,
and they shall be my people.
Therefore go out from their midst,
and be separate from them, says the Lord,
and touch no unclean thing;
then I will welcome you,
and I will be a father to you,
and you shall be sons and daughters to me,
says the Lord Almighty."
When Indonesian Muslims were making intimidating phone calls and threatening churches in 1998, Muslim women at an Islamic boarding school guarded the wife of a Baptist pastor when her husband was out of the country advocating for human rights in Washington.
............................
Well, good for these few Muslim women. I applaud decency and courage wherever it is found.
But, one asks--what did this Baptist pastor's wife have to be guarded *from*? Well, other Muslims, from the sound of things. And, while I can't be sure, it seems likely that her Baptist pastor husband was off in Washington advocating for human rights because his and his co-religionists' human rights were being violated by a regime that received (and still receives) a great deal of aid from Washington.
I imagine he was hoping to alert Washington to these human rights violations against religious minorities--non-Muslims, really--and hoping they could influence Indonesia, to whatever small extent, to guarantee those rights.
Those Muslim women at that boarding school did a good thing guarding this woman. Bosche Fawstin (creator of Pigman) wrote that many Muslims "are simply better than their religion." I think this is true. But as long as Islam mandates the opression and violent harrassment of Infidels, there will always be too many Muslims eager to threaten people like this woman, and too few willing to protect her from their violent co-religionists.
Certainly, there were many Jews saved from the holocaust by Germans, some few even Nazi party members. But survivors praised their rescuer's humanity, not the Nazi ideology that would have murdered them in the first place. It should be no different with Islam.
Christians & Muslims will never see eye to eye, because Jesus Christ & Muhammad are such polar opposites.
Jesus or Muhammad - You Decide:
http://www.christring.org/shortseries/jesusormuhammad.htm
Here is another site I have used.
http://quranicverse99.tripod.com/islamicways/id15.html
Raymond - thanks for that link. It is very, very telling.
Just for the sake of argument, lets take a look at the numbers. It has been estimated that there are 1.8 Billion Muslims in the world. If 10% of them are ardent followers of the Koran and believe in dar al-harb and caliphates, i.e.: Jihadists, then that is 180,000,000 suicide/homicide bombers loose in the world who will hear no word other than Mohammad's to kill the infidels.
I have no doubt the Baptists are trying to do the impossible with the best of intentions, but it must be remembered that the road to Hell is paved with good intentions.
Wake up Copts! it is 1400 years later and the Muslims still want to kill you...
I had a most interesting conversation two days ago with an Egyptian Muslim woman in the south Sinai. When I asked her how Muhammad could so easily allow plural marriages when in fact the most devastating event in most women's lives is the realization that their husband is sleeping with another woman, she replied that "Even though that is in the Shariah, it's not part of our culture in Egypt". Later in the conversation as we were talking about the devastating results of divorce on children, I again asked her how Muhammad could so easily allow divorce if the results were so damaging. She again replied that even though the Shariah allowed it, divorce was not a good thing.
Conversations with people like that remind me that "good Muslims", of whom their are many, are simply individuals whose humanity is at a higher level then the religion they follow. If they really followed their religion, they would be less then they are now. It's not that the religion is good, it's just that some of its subjects have not sunk to the moral level of the prophet they follow.
Ahhh, the sound of moral equivalency. Funny, it sounds just like a flushing toilet.
Someone's beheading, Lord--
Kumbayah;
Someone's dismembering, Lord--
Kumbayah!
Someone's raiding, Lord--
Kumbayah;
Someone's enslaving, Lord--
Kumbayah!
Someone's slaying, Lord--
Kumbayah;
Someone's stoning, Lord--
Kumbayah!
Someone's an inane lamebrain, Lord;
O, Lord! Kumbayah!
M'gawd, how I do love doggerel!