"Al-Qaeda Pipeline" Update. "British Muslims 'fighting with Taliban in Afghanistan'," by Con Coughlin, Duncan Gardham and Thomas Harding for the Telegraph, August 1:
Brig. Ed Butler, who spent six months commanding British forces in Afghanistan, also revealed fears that militant Islamic groups in south-east Asia are supporting terrorist plots in the UK.
The brigadier, a former head of the SAS, spoke exclusively to the Daily Telegraph in the week when the British death toll in Afghanistan reached 114, with 17 fatalities in the last two months.
UK forces have uncovered evidence that British Muslims are actively supporting the Taliban and al-Qa'eda in attacks on coalition forces in southern Afghanistan, Brig Butler said.
He said: "There are British passport holders who live in the U.K. who are being found in places like Kandahar."
Earlier this year, it was revealed that RAF Nimrod spyplanes monitoring Taliban radio signals in Afghanistan had heard militants speaking with Yorkshire and Midlands accents.
Privately, British officers in Afghanistan estimate that several thousand Taliban fighters have been killed since 2006, among them people from outside the country.
One officer said: "While my troops have not actually found British passports on enemy dead there has been a suspicion that with the high number of Taliban casualties they have needed to recruit a lot of foreign fighters and some of these are likely to be of British-Muslim descent."
Disturbingly, Brig Butler suggested the traffic between Britain and Afghanistan may flow in both directions, with some British Muslims returning from the region and posing a domestic security threat.
Brig Butler, 46, said he had seen evidence that terror groups based in southern Afghanistan were plotting with Muslim extremists in Britain to carry out terror attacks in the UK.
"There is a link between Kandahar and urban conurbations in the UK," said Brig. Butler. "This is something the military understands but the British public does not."
Western intelligence agencies are increasingly concerned that Afghanistan and its lawless border with Pakistan are now home to many training camps used by Jihadi groups to prepare radicals for attacks in the West.
A Whitehall source confirmed that the security services are aware of some radicalized British Muslims returning to the UK from Afghanstan.
The source said: "There are very small numbers of British citizens traveling out there, being trained up and then returning to the UK."
All muslims entereing the UK from the Pak or Afgansitan,etc should be held and arrested for espoionage.
A fake passport will bypass such security efforts.
The driver of the security van transporting these items stopped to get a candy bar and newspaper.
Can anyone say 'inside job' courtesy of Blair/Brown multi-culti PC security measures?
What an enormous surprise. When is someone going to call the Brits to account for this? We complain all the time about Pakistan and the Saudis as "false friends", and yet Britain -- yes, the sceptered isle -- is currently the multicultural petri dish that spawns a large number of problems for the rest of us in the dar al-Harb.
Their experiments in craven appeasement should not be allowed to damage the rest of us.
Too bad all the British Moslem terrorists don't go to Afghanistan to fight alongside the Taliban. At least there their attacks can be met with appropriate firepower, like helicopter gunships, instead of a sentence of two years probation by a PC judge.
Can't trust any of them.
"There is a link between Kandahar and urban conurbations in the UK," said Brig. Butler. "This is something the military understands but the British public does not."
Seems the British public doesn't understand a lot about islam. But the public understands a hell of a lot more than the government officials elected to serve and protect them.
Thank you NU Labour.
Meantime, "don't mention the war"....
From the UK Spectator:
http://www.spectator.co.uk/the-magazine/features/852816/dont-mention-the-afghanpakistan-war.thtml
All fellow Islamic warriors operating for the pursuit and spread of Islam. Each doing their part as best they can. We just happen to have entire countries that have forgotten the value in defending their culture.
Cultures and civilizations throughout history have lasted only so many years. I'm now of the opinion that they died out mostly because they chose to. If UK, the USA, and all the rest don't get going with some common sense to defend ourselves, then we are nearing the end of our culture's time.
Remember the killer bees. Initially the scientists thought that as they interbred with domestic honey bees, that they would gradually develope into a much less hostile bee. But this didn't happen. With Islam, we are looking at sort of the same kind of thing Im afraid.
Spot On,
All good things come to an end.
Most cultures die from within. The West seemed better able to defend itself when the Muslim world was in its heyday. Everyone likes rooting for the underdog and today the Muslims seem to be filling that role.
9/11 didn't wake us up to the threat. We could pass it off as an isolated incident by a few "criminals". We're going to have to be attacked even more viciously and forcefully before we decide if we want to fight.
It seems we're more comfortable in the role of David. Goliath is just too big. He's unsympathetic as well.
All good things come to an end.
PMK
No question, this is correct. But like death and taxes, we need to try to put it off as long as possible. I have seen seemingly insurmountable problems suddenly disappear once public awareness is established.
Our troops were originally sent to Afghanistan because it had provided a haven for Al Qaeda and other terrorist groups. While we have succeeded in flushing out those groups to a large extent, and have installed a relatively moderate government, the jihadist groups have obviously merely made a tactical retreat into Pakistan and other remote locations, where they have regrouped, are training, and are staging attacks on us.
To prevail, we must keep going and expand the areas of jihadi-free zones, even if it means pushing into Pakistan or other countries. At some point we will need to recognize that indigenous Muslim regimes cannot handle the task of effectively countering the Jihad. I predict that this will create a breakpoint in the West's relationship with Islam, wherein the concept of fighting Islamic terror via Islamic moderation will have been exhausted and we will finally have to confront some uncomfortable truths about Islam itself.
According to the dhimmi congenital appeasers of NuLabour
Ah yes, that famous "tiny minority". This "tiny minority" certainly gets about.
For every active treasonous British Muslim fighting against the forces of the Crown, I would hazard that there at least 10 who are active supporters. Without this Muslim support in Britain, they couldnt operate. This is in addition to the leader or Imam of the local mosque, and immediate family - the ones who are going to be SHOCKED, SHOCKED, if any of the Jihadis are arrested or KIA.
PMK and Spot on
We're going to have to be attacked even more viciously and forcefully before we decide if we want to fight.
No need for them to do so. Even if our nations stopped all Muslim immigration, the demographic growth of Muslims within Western nations, due to a high birth rate, will see Islam taking over democratically in a century at most.
Spot On, and PMK; just to add to your comments on the fall of civilizations.
Civilizations also fall when the government and leadership becomes so tyrannical and oppressive that the bulk of the population sees no benefit in remaining loyal or believes that a change of rulers would be no worse than the existing situation.
Thus in the 400's, Roman rule had become so rapacious and despotical that the peoples of the Western Empire no longer felt any loyalty to Rome at all, and believed that rule by the invading Germanic tribes would be no worse. Almost nobody was willing to defend Roman rule any more.
Likewise, in the 600's in the eastern provinces of the Byzantine (Eastern Roman) Empire. The hierarchy and the believers in the ancient Patriarchates of Antioch (Syria) and Alexandria (Egypt) resented the interference by the imperial authorities in their affairs and beliefs. There were important doctrinal differences between them and Constantinople as well as disputes over the authority of the Patriarch of Constantinople. Very often, the capital tried to impose doctrinal uniformity and declared the P's of Alexandria and Antioch to be heretics and tried to appoint new patriarchs more to the capital's liking. The clergy and many of the believers in A and A resisted, to the point of civil war. The capital had to send in troops to protect its choice of patriarch and its policies. In return, both Alexandria and Antioch often regarded Constantinople as the heretical see. By the 600's, the populations of these provinces was so alienated by rule from the capital that they were unwilling to support the empire against the Moslem invasion. Christians of the time generally regarded Islam as another Christian heresy, and they figured that rule by these new heretics would be no worse than rule by the heretics of Constantinople. So these provinces fell, because too few of their inhabitants saw them as worth defending.
Unfortunately it looks like Europe and North America are both going down the same path as western Europe in the 400's and the eastern provinces in the 600's. Our governments have become so divorced from the real interests of their populations that it's difficult to have any loyalty to them. Plus they have allowed the entry of millions of immigrants who never did feel any loyalty to them. In Europe, no matter how many times the electorate rejects the EU treaties (in France, the Netherlands, and Ireland), the supposedly-democratic EU politicians find ways around these referenda, and impose rule from Brussels anyway. In the U.S. tens of millions of immigrants (both legal and illegal) have been allowed into the country, but have little or no commitment or attachment to it. Our government is destroying our traditions and making our culture so worthless, that I'm afraid it won't be long before Americans decide -- like the western Europeans in the 400's -- that the alternative of Islam and sharia is no worse than the existing state of affairs.
By their own admission, they are not British, but are moslems living in Britain. Big difference.
ebonystone,
Good history lesson. It scared me because, right now, I count myself among the group that really doesn't care anymore. It's not so much that I would accept sharia or Islam but that globalism means I no longer have a stake in the survival of this country. What is Islam but another form of globalism that seeks to remove all boundaries and bring all people under one umbrella? I was an ardent cold warrior but now? Que sera sera. The people we elect view themselves as citizens of the world and work actively against our interests. WE STILL ELECT THEM. C'est la vie.
"Even if our nations stopped all Muslim immigration, the demographic growth of Muslims within Western nations, due to a high birth rate, will see Islam taking over democratically in a century at most."
DP111,
But can the Muslims wait that long? They talk about their willingness to fight the long fight but if that were true then why 9/11 and all the subsequent attacks in Europe and everywhere else?
They all want to be involved in jihad. Can they see having kids and grandkids as jihad? Some of them will want to shed blood. They'll pick the wrong target and that will be that.
Are they willing to abide Israel's existence while they wait for demographics to do the job for them in Western nations?
If they had just sat tight in Gaza and the West Bank they could have done the same thing to Israel in a lot less than a century but they just had to keep bombing.
I was an ardent cold warrior but now?
____________________
PK and others:
While, I appreciate the history lesson - I don't think now is the time to give up.
Give me liberty, or give me death.
The West, as a whole, must find the will to survive. It's not a question of might as we have the military ability to defeat them - if we chose to do so, but we lack the will.
Even in a worse case scenerio, I still believe the ideals of freedom, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness are worth fighting for.
In regard to demographics, and winning:
1.) Ban Muslim immigration - Islam and democracy, by their own account, are not compatible. Actually, right now - I'd suggestion a complete temporary ban on immigration period. Combined with the complete removal of ALL illegal immigrants. Period.
2.) Get people past the contraceptive mentality and urge them to start pro-creating again.
3.) At the same time, re-install the value of Western civilition, if not also nationhood.
4.) If a Muslim, or ANY person, is caught attacking, or working to attack, the country they live in, revoke their citizenship and deport them.
Finally, we need to start thinking positively. We CAN win this war. We MUST win this war.
That is all.
Peace.
I hope my remarks above are taken as a warning, not as words of despair. I agree with the remarks of Monkeywho, and with his/her conclusion: we CAN win.
In regard to demographics, the important thing is to stop further immigration, so that the existing Islamic base is not continually reinforced. Then the forces of assimilation will have a chance to work. In Europe large numbers of Moslems are leaving their religion, either converting to Christianity or secularizing. But these numbers are overwhelmed by an even larger number of new Moslem immigrants. Halting immigration will allow the Moslem base to gradually erode away. Second- and third-generation Moslems in the West will not want such large families -- as long as they marry others in the West, and not fresh spouses from the Old Country. Even in Islamic countries the growth rates are falling although they're still above Western levels. In Iran the birth rate is already barely above replacement level.
We owe it to ourselves to always keep on the positive side of being smart in the fight that we know we face. Right now that means understanding the enemy and establishing public awareness of the nature of our enemy. I think history is all important as a guidepost of what to do. It is not over until it is over, and we are way ahead of the curve. Public awareness is immeasureably important. Other people just don't know. They don't see the danger. When and if they do, they will begin to change the national debate.
Every single Muslim who goes to the Middle-East to fight against the British/Americans and our other allies should be tried for treason and shot at dawn.
Then bury every single one of them face down in an unmarked grave.
Use bullets fipped in pig fat.
Bury them wrapped in pig fat and skin.
The General Pershing way.
The longer we wait to stand up and fight the more drastic the measures we must take for our survival will become.
I didn't choose for things to be this way.
I only see them moslems very clearly for what they are and what must be done if we are to remain free.
They tell us each and every day who and what they are and what their intentions are. They even broadcast the means they seek to use.
For crying out loud already! If they have no hangups regarding their means we should start to act accordingly.
General Pershing showed how it is done.
http://pinoyhistory.proboards22.com/index.cgi?board=othereras&action=display&thread=282
Disregard the lone troll who said that Pershing would never have allowed such "atrocities". Probably a moslem interloper spreading fitna among the Resistance.
They think only they can use the nastiest means of War.
Time to revisit that assumption.
Hey, everybody relax. Sure, there are problems out there like Muslim terrorism, Muslim demographic explosion, a bitter Russia with an attitude, bastards in Beijing wanting to control the Pacific, etc., but that great citizen of the world, Barack Obama, will solve all these problems and more. Oh yeah, count on it.
Wellington
Now that IS depressing.
Tell that to the German Muslim Brit(figure that one out!) who runs the Muslim smokescreen http://www.flyingimam.com/. He's always telling us just how loyal and freedom loving his Muslims are except when the Zionists or Islamophobes get them upset.
Ummah,
Not a bad idea, been in favor of that for a while. Like in Britain they should use pig carrier trucks to haul Muslim prisoners around.
But Pershing was a horrible strategist and tactician. He ordered the Army to strip the Marines of their tried and true Lewis light machine guns as well as stripping his own troops of the new BAR, for fear they may fall in the hands of the Germans. With that attitude, might as well give them muskets and pikes He also had no tactical grasp and threw our boys in battle in totally backwards and bloody frontal assaults. Basically, he was an impressive looking guy but was the ultimate Colonel Blimp.
For those who are feeling overwhelmed and despairing, I suggest you (or at least, the Christians and semi-Christians among you) read the following:
the chapter entitled 'The Five Deaths of the Faith' (or, perhaps, The Five Deaths of Christendom', in G K Chesterton's "The Everlasting Man".
http://www.worldinvisible.com/library/chesterton/everlasting/part2c6.htm
Most memorable quote: "Christianity has had a series of revolutions, and in each of them Christianity has died".
For best effect, and a widening of vision (for Chesterton seems quite, quite unaware that the remarkable pattern he observes for 'christendom' reproduces precisely the pattern seen not only in the TaNaKh [Hebrew Bible] but in the history and life of the House of Israel to this very day, just as he seems quite unaware, in an earlier chapter on Christ, that everything he says about the character of Jesus can be said, in spades, about Jesus' people)
*also* track down and read, if you can, Franz Rosenzweig "The Star of Redemption" and Tom Cahill, "The Gifts of the Jews" and "How the Irish Saved Civilisation" (more properly, 'How the Irish Saved Western Civilisation").
Or else, or in addition to the above, Jacques Ellul's The Meaning of the City (French title is 'Sans feu ni lieu') and Hope in Time of Abandonment ( French title: L'esperance oubliee).
When J K Rowlings chose to oppose The Order of the Phoenix, to Voldemort and the Death Eaters, she chose with unerring poetic instinct. She knew what she was doing: she had studied medieval and renaissance literature pretty thoroughly, so far as I can tell from some of the images and motifs she employs.
*Both* the House of Israel, and Christendom which was (Christians believe) created when that which indwells Jerusalem forever erupted also unexpectedly outward, live under the sign of the Phoenix. They are always being buried and always surprising people when the reports of death turn out to be greatly exaggerated.
I should note that neither Chesterton nor Ellul is a facile Pollyanna - rather the opposite. The hope that they offer rings in the mind like the clash of steel upon steel.
In the present hour, it is hope like that, which is needed.
I don't know much about Gen. Pershing besides his very rational and pratical approach to dealing with moslem murderers.
So he may well have had other tactical deficits.. but if only we used his particular methods to this day!
There'd be no moHAMedan plague worth mentioning..
MorrisMinor, there's quite a few things I'd love to tell that "German" moslem "Brit" you mention.
Most of all i'd like to send him back to the ummah with a one-way ticket.
If he fails to behave onboard the plane I'd push his *ss out - simple as that.
This guy is no longer German and he was never a Brit. He merely lives there and is using it.
A moslem is a moslem is a moslem.
According to that pinoy history thread, Pershing was NOT responsible for those effective anti-Muslim tactics. It was Colonel Alexander Rodgers, Governor of Jolo, who was reprimanded by his Pershing. Hey, I think all terrorists should be housed with pigs and buried in pig sties.
I am sorry to be so blunt -
but I have to say couple of things for which I will be attacked, but I need to say something:
The Western Europe has already lost the "real" war against Islam, the US will soon.
Even though many of you have successfully seen through the Islamic fables and read between the lines - the fact is that people around you just do not see and whatever you say to them you will be considered islamophobes, nationalists, chauvinists or whatever to that extent.
Hence the West has lost the war - I know this because that is what happened wherever the Muslims took over.
There is not a single country where Muslims live like normal citizens because if they are majority, the minority is - literary screwed - you have no rights, you have to leave, you have to be a dhimmi, you are much better dead than alive. Wherever they are in minority - they are screaming harassment.
The problem is, the naive West does not see it trough.
Your nations are letting them run free and your nations are bombing those who fight muslims.
This is where my objection to the West is. I am a Serb, the baby killer, the ethnical cleanser, the barbarian murderer - yes, and to tell you the truth - bloody proud of it.
It is the problem of us, Serbs - always in the right place at the wrong time.
Anyway, I just can not tell you anything - because you will be looked upon like idiots if you go out in your communities and say what "a Serb told you", I mean - hello, what is there that killers can say.
So, all I can do is watch how they (Muslims) are making their webs, how they are setting everyone up for a slaughter - because everyone knows that poor Muslims are so innocent and that they never did anything bad - I mean everyone knows that Islam is a religion of peace - it is the other 6 billion of people who are wrong - Muslims just want what is theirs - this planet, and if in order to do that the rest of us have to die - well it happens.
So, from one killer to all of you future killers, make sure you teach yourselves and your families how to handle weapons - trust me, you do not have a clue what you are in for - and those around you, have even less.
Yours truly, Predrag.
MorrisMinor,
Thanks for the link.
The site is full of anti-"zionist" hatred, but all they can talk about is how moslems are being treated.
No mention of bombings and SUV attacks, or shoe bombs...just poor moslem, "we never get to kill without someone blaming us"... PUKE
From the comments:
The deliberate propaganda of hate against all Muslims is reaching levels I would not have imagined.
NO OTHER GROUP would be so vilified in media.
I love this next one, talk about head up his a$$..
When someone like Hugo Chavez comes along and tries to work for the indigenous poor of Venzuela he is labled a terrorist! I give up!
Military deployments are an expensive but sometimes unavoidable way of eliminating terrorists. In order to defray the costs, the families of those British or other Western nationals who are killed while fighting Western military forces should be presented with a bill for the costs of neutralizing their wayward relative. DNA testing (also to be included in the costs) should provide a fairly reliable way of identifying the responsible relatives.
Chatillon
I am afraid that is not the way it works in our liberal multi-cultural society. I read of a Canadian jihadi who was severely wounded and his family brought him back to Canada for treatment at the expense of the Canadian taxpayer. If I remember rightly his mother said “He is Canadian, he has a right to be treated here”
xristos.anesti: You're right to be concerned but you're too pessimistic about America's chances. Sure, we have clueless liberals here who are a problem (including the new Messiah, if you get my meaning), but when push comes to shove no one will ever prevail against America, including Islamic barbarians. Count on it. You can take this guarantee to the bank.