A very revealing piece on sharia, marriage, and concubinage, as they relate to this story. "Why we passed Fatwa on Islamic preacher with 86 wives –Imam Ashafa," by Emeka Mamah, Kaduna for Vanguard, August 30:
Mohammad Nureen Ashafa is the Imam of Ashafa Central Mosque, Tudun Wada, Kaduna; Vice President, Ashafa Mosque Foundation, as well as the Co-Executive Director of Interfaith Mediation Centre of Muslim-Christian Dialogue Forum, also in Kaduna.Considering that the law was "revealed" to him, the timing sure must've seemed convenient.
He spoke to some media organisations on the implications of the death sentence [fatwa] passed on octogenarian Islamic preacher, Mohammed Bello Abubakar, by the Jama’tu Nasril Islam [JNI], for marrying 86 wives contrary to Islamic injunctions. Excerpts:
Do you support the fatwa passed on Mohammed Abubakar for admitting that he has 86 wives?I strongly support the JNI fatwa. In Islam, if somebody claims to be a Muslim, he professes Islam and he wants to act in the name of Islam, then he has no legitimacy to marry more than four wives. In Koran Chapter four, God made it very clear.
You are free to marry women of your choice; you can marry two, three, or four. However, if you feel you cannot do justice among them, marry only one wife. This scriptural text is not ambiguous.
This is a direct instruction from God, so, anything that negates that injunction is not allowed. You cannot marry more than four wives. There is room for concubine in Islam [i.e., sex-slaves]. And that is why you see some royal fathers have four wives and they have concubines.
The history of concubine has to do with slavery, if you had women who are in your possession as slaves. This is because in those days, people bought slaves. It may no longer be fashionable in modern times but the law is still there.[...]
So, if somebody says he has 86 wives, and he claims to be a Muslim scholar, there is nowhere in the history of Islam that such a thing is accepted. Prophet Mohammed had more than four wives, he had nine wives but he had the wives before the law on limitation on the number of wives a Muslim can marry.[...]
So, how do you share 86 wives in a year? It means that you cannot meet some of the women more than once in a week. In fact, it may not even be possible because we have 52 weeks in a year. So, if you see one every week, the others have to wait till the next year to take their turns. What is the legitimacy? There is no legitimacy for that in Islam. It is an abuse on the rights and dignity of these women. It is an abuse on the sanctity of woman-hood. It is an abuse to marry 86 wives in the name of Islam.[...]And they say Islam harbors misogynistic tendencies! Look at all the concern shown here for the "sanctity" and "dignity" of "woman-hood."
I am a polygamist because I have two wives and I try to give equal justice to the two of them. It is not enough for me to say that because I have enough money or houses then I should marry a third wife. A woman needs emotional satisfaction. That affection is part of the rudiments of marriage.He did say that "A man with 10 wives would collapse and die, but my own power is given by Allah. That is why I have been able to control 86 of them." Before cynically dismissing his prowess, maybe the shura council should distribute a questionnaire among his 86 wives and ask them if they feel he has been adequately satisfying their "sexual" and "emotional" needs?How does the man with 86 wives satisfy the sexual and emotional needs of these women?
And the man is about 80 years old and the law of diminishing returns has caught up with him. If he were to be a younger person, then we may conclude that he takes Viagra or other stimulants but here we have a man who is about 83 years old having 86 wives.Incidentally, this mafia-like association begins at birth and so has nothing to do with "willingly" joining. In other words, the vast majority of Muslims "willingly come into" Islam simply by being born.One of the things that can nullify any marriage in Islam is when a man is not able to satisfy his wife sexually. If a man cannot meet the sexual needs of the wife, the woman is free to demand the dissolution of that marriage. It constitutes an abuse of Islam for any Muslim,anywhere to marry more than four wives.[...]
If a Muslim takes a bottle of beer and starts drinking in my presence and he claims to have a right to do that, I would take a cane and flog him right there if he is a member of my mosque because he is messing up the moral values of the Muslim community. The Islamic culture is unique because there are rules that guide the behaviours of a Muslim. That is why there is no compulsion in joining the religion of Islam.
A man has a right to decide to become a Muslim but he may not be free to just renounce the religion the moment he is in. There is no compulsion in Islam. You do not force people to come into the religion. However, when somebody willingly comes into it, it is not easy for him to say that he is leaving it.
He ought to have known the consequences before coming in. It is like being a citizen of America and tomorrow you say I am no longer an American citizen, I am now an Afganistan and I hate America.A big hint, hint, and a nudge, nudge to all you would be wild "playboys" in Dar al-Islam: keep that stuff on the low and you're good to go.You start condemning America. Will America let you go? It is treasonable felony because you have no right to be a citizen of Nigeria and sabotage the nation.[...]
But several Emirs and other rich Muslims have more than the prescribed four wives. If this man did not speak, nobody would have known. Are there mechanisms that the JNI can use to determine those who flout the law and perhaps also sanction them?
If you have more than four wives and you do not say it, the Sharia would not know anything about it. If you do not confess that you have more than four, nobody dares say anything because you have your privacy and your privacy is well protected in Islam.[...]
There are four basic principles of marriage. There must be the interest across the parties. You do not hijack a woman and give to a man.Didn't we just acknowledge concubinage as being "legal" in Islam?
They must be interested in each other. There must be love. There must be acceptance by the families of the couple.
"There are four basic principles of marriage. There must be the interest across the parties. You do not hijack a woman and give to a man."
They do in Nigeria and the Sudan...and then the Muslims kill the family members who come to rescue their daughters..
Will America let you go?
And they say Americans have a limited world view.
This one should go out to family & friends. Nothing more exemplifies the moral bankruptcy of Islam than its teachings on slavery...and its teachings on women, which are largely synonymous. Here, they are synthesized for all to see.
If it were not for the harsh penalty, this would be funny. Eighty six wives of an eighty year old man and he keeps them under control because Allah enables him to do so. His judges find that incredible, impossible. How many times was sex mention in the article? What's going on here is that these guys are jealous. An eighty year old, a threat to their manhood. Sure he violated Sharia law, but a death sentence for being a major womanizer? Now that's a little heavy. I guess they just want to make an example of him so that no other eighty year old's will start getting ideas...\
Eighty six wives...I wonder how he supported all that? Must cost a fortune...
"If this man did not speak, nobody would have known. Are there mechanisms that the JNI can use to determine those who flout the law and perhaps also sanction them?
If you have more than four wives and you do not say it, the Sharia would not know anything about it. If you do not confess that you have more than four, nobody dares say anything because you have your privacy and your privacy is well protected in Islam.[...]"
The Imam's statement sounds pretty bizarre, right? Yet I believe it's quite justifiable and soundly based in Islamic doctrine.
In "The Reliance of the Traveller," a compilation of Islamic jurisprudence approved by Al-Azhar, I ran across this concept. We all know that Islamic theology approves and encourages lying, intentional misrepresentation, deliberate evasion and omission under many circumstances.
Yet did you know Allah does this is as well to his followers' misdeeds? It's called "the concealment of Allah," and it's a sin to confess something that Allah has concealed. As far as I can make out -- the reasoning is quite, well, foreign to Western concepts of "right" and "wrong" -- if a Muslim does something wrong and doesn't get caught at it right away, then Allah concealed it, and it's a sin to confess it or even for others to bring it to light. (See Traveller, r35.0, r36.0).
Run that through your head again: if you get away with it, Allah wanted you to. If Mr. 86 Wives had just shut the hell up, it would have been fine and dandy with the Imam, with Allah, with Sharia, and with Islam.
The repeated silence and stonewalling behavior of Muslim communities regarding their murderers, rapists, terrorists and other criminals is now making a great deal more sense to me.
"This is a direct instruction from God, so, anything that negates that injunction is not allowed. You cannot marry more than four wives. There is room for concubine in Islam [i.e., sex-slaves]. And that is why you see some royal fathers have four wives and they have concubines."
Thank Allah I received this in time! I was about to marry a fifth wife and would have gone to hell! Allah is merciful!
"If a Muslim takes a bottle of beer and starts drinking in my presence and he claims to have a right to do that, I would take a cane and flog him right there if he is a member of my mosque because he is messing up the moral values of the Muslim community. The Islamic culture is unique because there are rules that guide the behaviours of a Muslim. That is why there is no compulsion in joining the religion of Islam."
What about that part where you are taking a cane and flogging him right then and there? Isn't that compulsion? Or I am I taking "flogging" out of context?
Marwan's daughter - So if no one knows and Allah conceals it, it isn't a crime or a sin. Am I right in thinking that Islam is the religion for sociopaths?
I right in thinking that Islam is the religion for sociopaths?
Posted by: tanstaafl
'Bingo!!!'....whoops I think there is a poster named 'Bingo'...Sorry Bingo...
You are so right Marwan's Daughter. Something is only wrong in Islam if it becomes known. Everything has to do with the outward appearance of virtue. All form, no substance.
"From among the teachings of Allah's Messenger (salallahu alaihe wa-sallam) is to keep sins a secret matter. If someone commits a sinful act which is against the Commandments of Allah, or is against the moral character, or is such an act that may cause harm to one's honor, then he should keep it a secret and seek forgiveness from Allah in the darkness of night. The Messenger of Allah (salallahu alaihe wa-sallam) said: "My entire nation is safe, except al-Mujahirin (those who boast of their sins). Among the Mujaharah is that a man commits an (evil) act, and wakes up in the morning while Allah has kept his (sin) a secret, he says: "O Fulan! Last night I did this and that." He goes to sleep while Allah has kept his (sin) a secret but he wakes up in the morning and uncovers what Allah has kept a secret!" [Saheeh al-Bukharee]
Zayd ibn Aslam narrated, 'At the time of the Messenger of Allah(salallahu alaihe wa-sallam), a man admitted that he had committed fornication, so the Messenger of Allah asked for a whip. He was brought a broken whip, so he said: "Better than this." Then he was brought a new whip…, he then said: "Lesser than this.' So, he was brought a whip that was used and had thus become soft, and the Messenger (salallahu alaihe wa-sallam) ordered that he be whipped with it (a hundred times). He then said: "O People! It is time for you to refrain from transgressing Allah's limits. He who commits some of these filthy acts (such as fornication), let him hide under Allah's cover, for whoever admits what he has committed, we will establish Allah's Book as regards him (by applying the warranted punishment for this sin)." [Musnad Ahmad]
Abdullah Ibn Masoud (radiyallahu anhu) related, 'A man came to the Prophet and said: 'O Messenger of Allah! I have mingled with a woman in the far side of al-Medina, and I fulfilled my desire short of actually having sexual intercourse with her. So, here am I, judge me according to what you decide.' Umar Ibn al-Khattab (radiyallahu anhu) then said: 'Allah had kept your secret, why did not you keep your secret?' [Sharh Muslim]
Similarly, if one becomes aware of somebody else's sin, he should keep it a secret. Allah's Messenger (salallahu alaihe wa-sallam) said: "He, who relieves a hardship of this Dunya (word) for a believer, Allah will relieve (from him) a hardship of the Day of Resurrection; he who makes easy an indebted person, Allah will make it easy for him in the Dunya and the Hereafter; he who covers a Muslim (meaning his mistakes and shortcomings), Allah will cover him in the Dunya and the Hereafter…" [Muslim]"
http://www.ahya.org/amm/modules.php?name=Sections&op=viewarticle&artid=141
Also, honour killings are only triggered when the neighbours start gossipping. Guess the above last paragraph only applies to males.
Honour equals Pride/Face.
"....and I try to give equal justice to the two of them. It is not enough for me to say that because I have enough money or houses then I should marry a third wife. A woman needs emotional satisfaction. That affection is part of the rudiments of marriage.".....from headline.
What is equal justice? I'm almost afraid to know. Equal punishment when his wives are 'naughty'? If one gets a spanking, then so does the other? Whatever.....
If it's "equal justice" that you're after, then how about each of your two wives marrying a second husband, and then lets see how you much like it. No! That isn't the kind of "equal justice" you were talking about? You mean you don't want to share your wife with another man, but you expect her to share your sorry ass with another woman? You don't want equal justice, you just want your cake and to eat it too.
And how much "emotional satisfaction" can a woman truly have from sharing her husband with another woman? I would be an "emotional wreck" if I were expected to do that, or he would be dead. Hmmm, probably the latter.
The more I learn about Sharia "law" and islamic mores, the more they resemble organized modern gang rules. If you don't get caught, you're OK with the head man. If you lie to cover the rest of us, you're a hero. If you do get caught, we dump you - you're a liability. If you try to leave the gang - we kill you. The main difference I can see is that, unfortunately, modern western gang members aren't 80-some years old. They might be easier for the police to deal with if they were, though!
"It is like being a citizen of America and tomorrow you say I am no longer an American citizen, I am now an Afganistan and I hate America.
You start condemning America. Will America let you go?"
This idiot obviously doesn't know America. In America when you "start condemning America", not only will America "let you go" -- you could end up with a nice professor's job at a major American university and lots of high paying lecture tours and book deals like Noam Chomsky for instance.
Whats worrisome we no longer enforce anti-slave and polygamy laws in the U.S. thanks to the Mormons.
Because of that there is nothing stopping a Muslim from setting up shop with sex slaves or having a dozen wives.
Doubt it? just ask the FLDS.
He says "we have 52 weeks in a year", but that is using a Christian calender based on a true solar 365 day year, not the 355 day Islamic so-called "lunar year" of 12 moons, which is just a crude approximation of a solar year.
Yet again, Muslims stumble on themselves.
He says he has two wives, but he must satisfy them emotionally. What if he first wife objected? Do we really believe he would have bowed to her wishes, and not taken a second? And since humanity is basically divided 50/50 men and women, who spreaks for the men with mathematically no one? Are they to be closet homosexual jihadists used for suicide murder of "kaffir"? http://www.bravenewsworld.com
Eighty six wives...I wonder how he supported all that? Must cost a fortune...
Posted by: duh_swami
--
Maybe it's Keith Richards?
DenverRodeo
Oh and Ward Churchill.. Yes, THE Eichmann Ward.
"The history of concubine has to do with slavery, if you had women who are in your possession as slaves. This is because in those days, people bought slaves. It may no longer be fashionable in modern times but the law is still there."
As long as Muslim men have ding-dongs, there will be sexual slavery in Islam.
"One of the things that can nullify any marriage in Islam is when a man is not able to satisfy his wife sexually. If a man cannot meet the sexual needs of the wife, the woman is free to demand the dissolution of that marriage."
Yes, but why would any Muslim man trouble himself. Rather than let the world know that the husband is a dud in bed, he can just accuse his wife of adultery and presto! she's gone and nobody need ever know the truth.
"He ought to have known the consequences before coming in. It is like being a citizen of America and tomorrow you say I am no longer an American citizen, I am now an Afganistan and I hate America.
You start condemning America. Will America let you go? It is treasonable felony because you have no right to be a citizen of Nigeria and sabotage the nation."
A Freudian slip if I ever read one.
'Didn't we just acknowledge concubinage as being "legal" in Islam?
They must be interested in each other. There must be love. There must be acceptance by the families of the couple.'
I'm thinking, the chick who Mohammad "married" the night he murdered her husband and male family members.
As if 'Islamic morality' had anything to do with morality at all. Muslims deny the existence of the Golden Rule, which is the basis of all morality, the moral compass. In Islam their sick version of 'morality' is one which must be imposed from the top down because individuals can never be held responsible for their own actions (inshallah!), and Muslims as individuals can certainly never take responsibility for their own actions (or failures or shortcomings). So it really is just a matter of what one can get away with. Plus you're not supposed to ever be honest with anyone about anything ever because you could bring shame to the cult or cause tensions within it, particularly given the closed-minded, judgmental mentality of Muslim societies and the fact Muslims never have lives.
That why Christianity and Judaism are awesome. Judaism stresses personal responsibility, individual agency, and pride in hard work, and Jesus died for our sins so it's ok to be human. It's not ok to be subhuman or monstrous, like in Muslim societies, but you can own up to speeding or cheating on your spouse and not get killed over it or even be judged too harshly for minor infractions or very human moral failures.
jdamn
just as backup for your posting above, I'll give links to two articles by Nonie Darwish: 'Arab means never having to say you're sorry', and 'What a Muslim learned on Yom Kippur'.
I think both were written while she still identified as a Muslim - she still uses phrases like 'a perversion of Islam' - but you can see she was on her way out.
Here's the first:
http://www.jihadwatch.org/dhimmiwatch/archives/001941.php#comments
[the link within it, to the original on Nonie's then homepage, is broken, I'm afraid, but Mr Spencer posted the whole thing anyway]
Money quote:
"In the Arab {and indeed, the entire Muslim - dda} world to take responsibility and say sorry is taken as an unmanly sign of weakness that may get a person into more trouble.
'Those who admit guilt, even if it is accidental, are given no mercy and may end up taking all the blame and being brutally punished.
'It is the norm for Arabs to deny a fact (however blatant) and blame others rather than admit to the wrongdoing and apologize. Honesty is not rewarded."
Now for the second, the piece on Yom Kippur:
http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles/Read.aspx?GUID=1EC4D8C9-FB6C-4EDE-A880-7A24F4145117
Nonie observes: "Yom Kippur encourages Jews to examine themselves, to assume responsibility for their transgressions and for the task of self-improvement. Given my cultural background, this concept is entirely new to me."
And a little later:
"To admit one’s flaws and mistakes, to correct and repent, challenges a person of any nationality.
"In Muslim culture, however, it is inconceivable.
"To acknowledge one's shortcomings before first blaming others would bring deep shame and dishonor not only to the individual but to his or her entire family.
"Those who admit fault, even unintentional guilt, are regarded as foolish. If the mistake is a cultural taboo, one's reputation may be scarred for life and the perpetrator might end up brutally punished."
And she writes:
"Hearing my Jewish friends explain the teachings of their faith during the “ten days of repentance,” I am in awe."
I'm just waiting for the usual onslaught of Ramadan op-eds in my local paper -- how it is so similar to Yom Kippur and Lent. The discipline. The repentance of sins. The fasting . . .
(. . . the food-gorging and sexual indulgence after sunset until the wee hours, the sleeping all day, the demands that kaffirs not eat as well, the fact that the sins Allah concealed really, well, aren't sins at all . . .)
Those op-eds, interspersed with the "So Happy in My Ear-Muffling, Throat-Choking But-At-Least-I'm-Not-LOOKED-At Hijab" pieces, and the usual dhimmi "I Had Some Great Hummus and Lamb at Iftar With My New Mosque Friends" letters, really make Islam work for me.
. . . What?
Thank you, dumbledore'sarmy. I was never clear as to when Nonie became an Evangelical, but I think it must have been sometime in late '05 or early '06, before she wrote 'Now They Call Me Infidel.' She writes about Muslim shame culture quite a bit.
Here's another little gem of an interview with her, by my man Jamie Glazov:
"Image is very important and pride and shame are great motivators. Protecting the image of Muslims in front of the non-Muslim West is vital. Thus elaborate behavior is done to saving face. Admitting to a mistake can bring terrible shame and is not regarded as a virtue; those who admit to mistakes are not rewarded for their honesty but ridiculed and shamed or even severely punished...
There are people in Arab jails right now who are accused of defaming Islam or their country in front of non-Muslims. This defamation can be a simple praise of Christians or Jews and of being critical of radical Islam. Fear of being accused of defaming one’s tribe, nation or religion leads to a culture that tends to blame others rather than look within. The Judeo Christian culture concentrates heavily on the concept of “we are all sinners and only through the grace of God we can be saved.” That is a big relief to the Western psyche. Muslim education views members of other religions as sinners; the infidel non-Muslim sinners can only be saved by announcing they are Muslims. It is a prominent part of the Jewish faith to talk about God’s punishment when they are disobedient to God’s laws.
That honest admission by Jews is not viewed by Muslims as a virtue and a step towards self-improvement, but as an admission of wrong doing and that Jews are bad and deserve God’s wrath; that is why to many Muslims Jews do not deserve land or a nation. “They themselves even admit that they are sinners,” I once heard a Muslim say. There is also a concept in Islam called “taqueya” which allows lying to non-Muslims if it is in the best interest of Islam. That concept is very deep in Muslim culture that we don't even think of the term “taqueya” any more; it has simply penetrated every aspect of Muslim life. Because of it there is very little self-criticism.
Thus, saying sorry, admitting guilt or looking within for solutions is not a strong value; it will surely get a person in deep trouble instead. Such a person will bear the blunt of the blame for everything -- even for what he did not do; thus you have Muslim denials and defensiveness over matters that many in the West cannot comprehend. Muslims are in denial when they say that Muslim women have more rights than Western women; even many Muslim women convinced themselves with that and defend Sharia Law rather than say the truth in front of the non-Muslim West.
Muslims are in denial when they say Israel is behind all Muslim terrorism across the globe, even 9/11; they are in denial when they say that Arab tyrants are the product of American foreign policy, but when America takes out Saddam, they say “you are interfering in our internal affairs.” That is why many Muslims say one thing to the West in English and the opposite to Arabs in Arabic.
Shaming is prominent in the Arab child. To avoid the intense pain of shaming, denying responsibility turns into a virtue to save face and protect one's pride. The concept of “taqueya” is one of the reasons many Muslims were silent after 9/11. Only a few were speaking out honestly and openly by admitting there is a problem in Muslim culture that needs to be examined and corrected. The few Arab Americans who did that where not rewarded for their honesty by their Muslim community; instead they were condemned, shunned and shamed by the majority of Muslims. They are doing everything they can to silence us. They do not want to get into Western style dialogue with us or debate us in the open.
We rarely see Muslim vs. Muslim debate and that is why when the brave Arab American Dr. Wafaa Sultan [who is no longer a Muslim, btw], debated a Muslim cleric on Al Jazeera TV, it became international news. The thank you she got for her honesty by powerful radical Muslims was a Fatwa -- a death warrant. This explains and exposes the deep cultural need to even lie for self-preservation and protection. They don’t want an honest debate for reform from within; but they want to continue the lies to save face.
Very simply, Islamists do not want to admit to the world their jihadist agenda and their sympathy with terrorists. That is why they simply want to silence the opposition; a Danish cartoonist; the Pope; a Dutch film maker or politicians and the few Muslims and Arabs who dare to speak out.
Our crime is being honest and open about our culture, radical Islam and our wish for reformation. Even after leaving the Middle East and becoming US citizens we still carry the baggage of never admitting to a mistake and always blaming others such as the West or Israel for all internal problems of the Arab world.
This charade of denials and games has done nothing but keep the Muslim world in a permanent state of stagnation, turmoil and poverty despite of the wealth from oil."
I love her. If can't admit there's a problem you can't fix it. We all know what the problem is and so do they, but when we call them out, they kill us. That's why the Muslim world is living in 1000 BC.
Both the Old and New Testaments proclaim that no secrets will remain unrevealed. Referring to the final judgment:
Mark 4:22 "For there is nothing hid, which shall not be manifested; neither was any thing kept SECRET, but that it should come abroad."
King Nebuchadnezzar responded to Daniel's ability to interpret his dream as follows:
Daniel 2:47 "...your God is a God of gods, and a Lord of kings, and a revealer of secrets..."
It is childlike logic to think that because a sin hasn't been revealed, that God willed that it be kept secret. Confession is good for the soul! God knows what you did anyway.
"From among the teachings of Allah's Messenger (Arabic crap deleted) is to keep sins a secret matter."
This is mind-blowing! I had no idea such a hadith existed. Does anyone know if this is a "strong" hadith? Since two of the sources are Bukhari and Muslim, I would tend to think so, but when it comes to such things, my own knowledge is rudimdentary.
This could be a very strong tool, insofar as using Islam to condemn Muslims is concerned. It surely explains why there are no moderate Muslims.
If you drop by your neighbor's house, and he happens to be cleaning his unregistered and fully automatic Kalashnikovs and M-16's, you're not allowed to mention this, to the authorities.
First, you'd have to ask your Muslim self if this is a sin, even though it's clearly against the infidel's laws (which matter not at all to a Muslim). But if it is a sin, then you can't tell anyone, at all!