New York: Egyptian national with Sudanese passport builds unmanned drone designed to carry 600 pounds of explosives -- FBI says no terrorism

"It was such a bizarre set of circumstances," said New York State Homeland Security Director Michael Balboni.

IMO, this man needs to be fired IMMEDIATELY, just for being naive and vocalizing such weakness. What is bizarre, sir, about muslims wanting to kill your fellow New Yorkers, you moron?

Where is Exsgtbrown - "Halt all muslim immigration and begin massive deportation operations"...I miss his stern reminders.

I would strap this son of a bitch to his own drone and send it east out over the Atlantic, till it runs out of fuel.

A no-doubt innocent garage tinkerer merely working on his prototype, testing it out -- a regular Orville, a regular Wilbur Wright -- and hoping if it worked to attract the Pentagon's interest in his new and improved drone. He was just waiting for the right moment to have his people contact their people.

How is it possible that this is not headline news across the USA.

Here in Canada this is explained by the belief that Jihadists are just the latest psuedo-enemy created the the Right-Wing miltary industrial complex in order to justify American expansionism but also to exert internal loyalty of citizens through a perpetual feeling of being at war.

While there is some kernel of truth to the position that political leaders in the USA use false enemies for these purposes, it does not negate that in history there are real enemies to fight, and yes to exploit for external and internal political goals. This said, the fact that after 9/11, a character like this one is building a potential flying bomb is something people should know about.

What troubles me about the story is that if what the leftist media thinks about the current war on terror is true, then why isn't the so called Right Wing elites exploiting these incidents in their speeches. No offense, but jihadwatch is not yet mainstream political thought (keep up the fight Richard, one day it will be).

What are other's thoughts on this media vacuum? Is this just not news?

It was going to be 600 pounds of fireworks! Yeah, that's the ticket! Nothing to worry about, move along, you folks break it up!

"keep up the fight Richard..."
-- from a posting above

Who is this "Richard"? If you meant to refer to Spencer, it's Sir Patrick Spens-Spencer, and don't forget it.

Security Director Michael Balboni should not have a job if this 'bizarre set of circumstances' can't be honestly classified as terrorism or attempted terrorism. You're a public servant, protect the public.

This is a typical "Pay no attention to that man behind the curtain" BS that we're expected to blindly accept.

All that ordinary citizens can do is spread the word and pass on ueful sites like JW/DW.

Un-f*****g-real!

We need to tell these officials that the 800 pound gorilla called Islamic Jihad, is getting real obvious.

"Investigators said concern increased for a time ..."
-- from the articule above

And then what? They got over it? What decreased their concern, the concern that had initially increased when they found out the man running the drone project was an Egyptian national who had entered the country with a Sudanese passport? We need to know, in order to see if we agree with our security services -- we often don't agree with their judgements, about all kinds of things -- as to whether or not "our" concern, like theirs, should only have increased..."for a time."

James Martel,
Here it seems that Democrats (rank and file) have taken to describing almost anything that happens as an act of terror. This country is filled with "Christian terrorists", according to them.
Anyone and everyone that goes against the agenda of the Left is deemed a terrorist. George W. Bush is a terrorist. When he ran the Pentagon, Donald Rumsfeld was terrorist in chief. Evangelicals who are taking part in the election process are terrorists. Jerome Corsi has written a book criticizing Barack Obama and Corsi is described as "this home grown terrorist". How many Christian terrorists do you find in Canada?

As for why this isn't news in the US, there's an easy answer: it doesn't help the Democratic candidate. Democrats have spent the last eight years accusing Bush of exaggerating the threat we face. Many have seized upon the revelations in the anthrax case to say that the US government (BUSH!) deliberately sent anthrax to leading Democratic members of Congress and was therefore out to terrorize the American people in the wake of 9/11.
In fairness to Democrats, it doesn't help the GOP, either. Those who think we need to protect ourselves and who want to be proactive, by such measures as restricting Muslim immigration, are deemed racists, fascists, what have you.
The irony is that no one wants to hear about these threats but if one ever materializes and people are killed then the same people who today insist there are "no ties to terror" and that "Muslims shouldn't be profiled" will be wagging fingers and demanding to know why the US government didn't try to prevent the attack from taking place. They'll want heads to roll at the FBI, CIA and many other agencies - probably the same people who are now being praised for their excellent work and refusal to cave to popular opinion.

F.B.I. -- Famous But Incompetent

Or maybe, in the wake of all those CAIR sensitivity seminars, Famous But Indoctrinated.

When I was in Army CID, we called those glory hounds "Fan Belt Inspectors".

I live 20 minutes from that airfield. Let me tell you that nothing adds up.

We have a tiny Middle Eastern population. TINY. So it's not like there are lots working on engineering projects. The place has been closed for a few years, it was where the F-14 was developed.

Nothing makes sense. An Egyptian with a Sudanese passport. IDK

All I know is that they are out on the end of Long Island. Back in 02 we had a sweep of all the gas stations, and there were connections to human trafficking and terrorism found. That was off the record from someone I know.

I highly doubt this guy is looking to just sell it to the military. From the photos and description it looks as if it were designed to CARRY explosives, as in, fly them into something, not carry Hellfire missiles.

Quite strange.

Just for further discussion, I am not surprised about this. They crawl all over Long Island.

Google the "Westbury Long Island Mosque," and you'll eventually find something about the jihad preaching that goes on there.

I suppose they find Long Island to be a nice, unassuming place to mount operations to hit NYC with. Not crowded, not the same type of police presence, etc etc.

as for that range, I shoot there often. Perfect unassuming place for terrorist Muslims.

It is symptomatic how well prepared defense they have for a case they are caught. Obviously, jihadists work very seriously to exploit holes in our system. Only real proof of their intentions you have when attack is already executed. FBI should change it's criteria ASAP - meaning 20 years ago. Even today they seem to be in trouble to define who is our real enemy. When WTC was bombed in 1993. their first conclusion was it was Serbs... Jerks.

It is symptomatic how well prepared defense they have for a case they are caught. wrote Lazar

Yep, they have all their ducks in a row. Now, the FBI does not. One would think that the "law consultants" the FBI has on the payroll would be one step ahead? (should be anyway) Instead we get the tired old excuse "no ties to terror" AGAIN!! I actually laugh when I see those words now.

Where is undaunted?? Want to hear his take on this, as a NY'er.

I am tired of hearing that Muslims are involved in every terrorist plot. I know its true but I'm tired of hearing it.

I know how this is going to sound but this would be a very, very ineffective weapon.

Weapons like this work (actually ... they work barely) for America, because it cooperates with 2 other critical components :
-> massive and reliable information infrastructure (to know when & were to aim them)
-> a large and very mobile ground presence, who can both get in the way and back out of the way.
And even then you'd need large stocks of these missiles (because 1 is just not going to do the job)

If you want to use these as weapons you're going to have to load them with something other than explosives. HCN would be a good, simple and extremely lethal way to hit large crowds. Also with 300 liter of napalm (trivially simple to make) you'd be able to do a lot of damage if this thing can fly low autonomously (which is seriously too difficult without a (trained) human pilot).

But this thing is a joke. It's effect pale to what a few qassams (1/100th of the price) can achieve.

The airport in Calverton, Long Island, NY is a former Grumman Corp. operated (but was US Navy owned) facility which was used to test F-14 and other jets. It was sold by the US federal government to the Town of Riverhead a few years ago. The airport and its grounds are the subject of various development plans, some intended to keep it as an airport, others not. The runways are in use: it is currently used by a sport skydiving operation.

Unfortunately, the airport is five minutes flight time to Brookhaven National Laboratory in YipYipYaphank (The former Camp Upton), and probably 20 minutes from Plum Island Animal Disease Center.

It was such a bizarre set of circumstances," said New York State Homeland Security Director Michael Balboni. "Of course we watched it as closely as we did anything that was on our radar screen."

NYPD officials worked with Suffolk County police and the FBI to determine there were no ties to ter

Perhaps the US government can arrange for this individual to get full citizenship and a full scholarship at MIT -- I hear there is a recent opening in the school of Engineering.

Come to think about it; forget granting US citizenship!

That would prevent this aeronautical genius from getting into MIT altogether; what was I thinking?

"Quite strange"

Conor,
Your post reminded me of TWA Flight 800, either destroyed by a missile or exploded due to a spark in the center fuel tank.
Any idea how far this airfield is from JFK?

"Nothing makes sense. An Egyptian with a Sudanese passport."

Why wouldn't that make sense?
Today there are Georgians carrying Russian passports.
How many Palestinian terrorists were given Iraqi passports under Saddam or Egyptian passports under Nasser and Sadat?
DHS might be looking for an Egyptian with that name but would bypass the Sudanese, if it's a common enough name.

That the police "stumbled on this" is not reassuring, though that's probably how many such cases are identified and solved. Pure chance goes a long way. Dumb luck has saved a lot of people, no doubt.

As a wage slave to a well known defense contractor, I have to doubt the veracity of this engineer's explanation.

Defense contractors tend to prefer their own "black hole" thinkers, their own engineers, and their own R&D labs.

One question--is this unnamed engineer's little RC drone likely to put Predator to shame, with a longer range? Can it carry and fire two Hellfire missiles? I don't think so.

Oops...that was two questions, wasn't it?

del - I think you might be onto something.

A thing like this doesn't need to be loaded up with explosives - nor even napalm, like tomccp suggested.

You mentioned certain laboratories - laboratories that were on the hitlist in Aafia Siddiqui's handbag treasure trove.

There's all *sorts* of things that can be loaded onto a drone, and that do not need to be aimed accurately at all, in order to splatter or spray or drip everywhere and still have an effect.

Abscedere:

It would probably take only a half hour to reach Jfk from our area.
Driving is an hour or so with good traffic from the airstrip.

To reach level four biohazard plum island would be 15 minutes at best.

The airstrip is five minutes from the shooting range the 93 bombers trained at.

As for TWA, plenty of ppl on the south shore saw a missile

I guess it's just up to ordinary old New York jihadwatchers, and Long Island jihadwatchers, to pay attention to every move of the Mohammedans. Like everywhere

Furthermore, I can only suggest that - by way of neighbourhood watch groups, and suchlike - you try to educate the *local* police at your friendly neighbourhood cop shop. After the clued-up citizens, the street-beat cop is the next line of defence. If he knows the non-Muslim citizenry are backing him, and if he knows what's at stake, he will feel more confident to Enforce the Law.

If you have a cop as a relative, friend, or fellow worshipper at your church or synagogue, or as a member in your sporting club or fishing club or whatever, see what you can do! (I have a great-uncle who is a retired policeman - he worked in the fraud squad for years and years - he 'got' the menace of Islam after two conversations with me - I am hoping that from him his knowledge may spread to other retired cops and through them to those still in active service).

At Christmas time you might give your policeman friend/ relative/ acquaintance, or your local beat police ( if you have established a relationship with them) copies of, say, Islam Unveiled, Onward Muslim Soldiers, and Politically Incorrect Guide to Islam and the Crusades. If you are Jewish or Christian, find out who the police chaplain is in your area and give *them* the books.

A printout of Australian retired policeman Tim Priest's classic article on "The Rise of Middle Eastern Crime in Australia"

http://quadrant.org.au/php/article_view.php?article_id=581

QUADRANT Volume XLVIII Number 1 - January-February 2004

(suitably annotated in various places to clarify the fact that even he did not entirely realize, that it was not, strictly speaking, 'middle eastern' crime, but MUSLIM crime, since the Jewish and Coptic and Lebanese Christian communities were not the problem, ONLY the Lebanese MUSLIMS and other Muslims including some not from the Middle East at all) might also help.

It has the virtue of being written by a fellow cop with boots-on-the-ground experience, and therefore has a sporting chance of being read and believed.

Try sharing with your policeman friend or relative some of the stories from the archives here, about the Muslim riots in France in November 2005 and some that also took place in Denmark - the way in which Muslims will lay claim to an area and then refuse to admit representatives of kafir law.

The two 'Undercover Mosque' reports from Channel 4 in the UK might be useful, too. And Mr Hugh Fitzgerald's article on 'Mosques Behaving Badly', from this site.

Three key things our Sergeant Plods need to know:
1. al-taqiyya and kitman - that Muslims lie or obscure the truth to protect other Muslims, and to protect the 'image' of Islam; that they lie as easily as breathing

2. that Muslims behave like the mafia - NO-ONE is ever allowed to rat on The Family aka the Ummah (and anyone who leaves it is supposed to be hunted down and killed)

3. Muslims are taught that if a Muslim can get away with it, he or she does NOT have to respect kafir law.

Ordinary beat cops should start watching the mosques in their district as suspiciously as they would watch premises suspected of being the headquarters/ hangouts of known street gangs.

Abscedere:

It would probably take only a half hour to reach Jfk from our area.
Driving is an hour or so with good traffic from the airstrip.

To reach level four biohazard plum island would be 15 minutes at best.

The airstrip is five minutes from the shooting range the 93 bombers trained at.

As for TWA, plenty of ppl on the south shore saw a missile going up to that plane.

double post sorry.

"FBI says no terrorism"

Where is Efrem Zimbalist, Jr.,?

We NEED him!

You realize if it was a Baptist who built this modern day Buzz Bomb the MSM and FBI would be all over it.

All humor aside, if we were a sane nation, this discovery of Muslim Buzz Bomb would scare the bright green piss out of the gov't and people.

Because it means Mr. Jihadi has a lot of resources and people behind him.

Whats worse, if you add up all the Muslims that law enforcement has caught planning attacks against the U.S. it indicates IMO we may see another serious attack soon, probably in the next 12 months.

" What we have here...is a failure to communicate."
Strother Martin

The 3 most over rated things in the world are..

1. Home cooking
2. Home loving
3. The F.B.I.

When POTUS declares: http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2001/09/20010917-11.html right after 9/11, then starts a "war on terror" with terrorists themselves as allies, why make a big deal of FBI covering up for a lone terorrist?

There must be people in the FBI who know exactly what is going on, who understand things perfectly. Perhaps they are not now in control, perhaps they are biding their time. But they must be there -- somewhere. And the same must be true all over the government -- even in the C.I.A., even in the State Department (possibly more to be found on the European rather than Middle Eastern desks).

"I know how this is going to sound but this would be a very, very ineffective weapon."

Not all Muslim terrorists want to kill a million people. There has been "chatter" of many different small-scale attacks just to cause general terror.

Conor,

Yeah, I agree that this thing could cause nasty local damage. I was just saying--there's no way this guy was thinking of selling it to the DoD.

As for TWA 800, well, I'm one of those people who believes it was shot down, too.

Posted by: DenverRodeo:- "I know how this is going to sound but this would be a very, very ineffective weapon." Not all Muslim terrorists want to kill a million people. There has been "chatter" of many different small-scale attacks just to cause general terror.

Hey, DenverRodeo, you're correct, and what's just around the corner? The NFL Kick-Off Weekend. Just imagine that weapon, loaded with [fill in the blank] and flown into the stadium at or around kick-off.

That would be a hugely demoralizing spectacle for the U.S. and a huge PR coup for radical islam, all on priime-time TV.

Just a matter of time, IMHO, before we see this kind of attack.

keystone cops alert! can some one sane connect the dots for these idoit FBI people! when one enters a country under a false passports, and which happens to be countries that are majority muslim, and who happen to do about 99percent of the terrorism attacks.. wake up FBI!

No ties to terror?
How about the ideology involved? Did they comment on that?

How much longer will they continue to insult our intelligence?

Very often in these cases, where local police observe suspicious behavior and report it to higher authorities, no arrests are made and explanations for its dismissal as benign are given because it would jeopardize a larger ongoing operation. The majority of the time it doesn't make the news, and shouldn't. But, sometimes overzealous news people get wind of the story and make it necessary.

Integrate a GPS system into it, which isn't that hard for a engineer, and it can hit any target in the U.S. including chemical plants, refineries, etc.

Hit the right plant and you can kill a hundred thousand from the resultant escaping gases without a problem.

Excellent bang for the buck.

they learned the man behind the project was an Egyptian national who had entered the U.S. on a Sudanese passport. [...]

OK, we know this Egyptian national gained entry into the US using a Sudanese passport. Why is he here? Who is he with? Why is he still here? In the very least, he trespassed on private property. Why isn't he cordially being invited to leave this country immediately?

"It could be in the air for 8-10 hours and there's potential harm if it is carrying a large amount of toxic material," NYPD Commissioner Raymond Kelly said in explaining why his department's counterterrorism officials were concerned.

Recently we heard of another no nexus to terrorism incident in Colorado involving one pound jar of sodium cyanide crystals where :

The State Department said privacy laws prevented the release of any information about the type of visa Dirie may have had.

Why was Diri here? Since when does a dead non-citizens 'privacy rights' (??) trump society's expectation of security?

Would everyone please calm down. Don't we all have a predator drone in the garage just for having fun on weekends? And if the FBI says there's nothing to worry about, I for one feel as safe as can be. After all they were right on top of things before 9/11, weren't they? Defending us from those muslim fellows who all wanted to become 767 pilots......?

That's why 9/11 never happened, because the FBI prevented it with their skillful diligence.

And why it will never happen again.

Ever.

What do unmanned drones get in heaven for their martyrdom? 72 virgin drones? Surprised this guy was willing to give up his virgins to a stupid drone. Loser. Oh that's right, he isn't being classified as a terrorist, because don't we all have 600 pounds of dy-no-mite in our possession?

Maybe this guy just hates drones and he likes to blow them up. Yeah, that must be it.

"And if the FBI says there's nothing to worry about, I for one feel as safe as can be. After all they were right on top of things before 9/11, weren't they? Defending us from those muslim fellows who all wanted to become 767 pilots......?"

n.a. palm,

Many a truth is said in jest. They did give Bush that briefing didn't they? A month before 9/11, they said "al qaeda determined to strike within US" (or something like that). Never mind that we'd been hearing that since at least 1998. The FBI was right there with their daily brief giving the president three-year-old news.
Then there was whats-his-name in Minnesota, who wanted to learn to fly without first learning how to land or take off. They had him in custody, right? They just couldn't look at his computer because DC wouldn't let them. That's our Justice Department. Busy protecting terrorists, even if it kills Americans.
Defense lawyers say it's better that a hundred guilty men go free than an innocent man be wrongly convicted.
Our leaders seem to believe it's better that thousands of Americans die rather than have one Muslim be inconvenienced unless (maybe!) he is caught holding a match next to a bomb. Anything is preferable to answering charges by CAIR that we are less than welcoming to those who say openly that they plan to kill us. They'd rather be accused of dereliction of duty than of profiling.

It was actually designed to carry Islamopologist Karen Armstrong and self-loathing moviemaker Michael Moore on a 'peace flight'.

(At 600 pounds combined they would just about max out the drone.)

LOL, Profitsbeard!! You kill me!!!

There must be people in the FBI who know exactly what is going on, who understand things perfectly. Perhaps they are not now in control, perhaps they are biding their time. But they must be there -- somewhere. And the same must be true all over the government -- even in the C.I.A., even in the State Department (possibly more to be found on the European rather than Middle Eastern desks).
Posted by: Hugh

I sure hope you are right but I can also tell you when I called the local FBI in the SF Bay Area I got nothing but silence when I offhandedly mentioned that Islam and Muslims were behind most of the terrorist attacks. I don't remember why I called, it was well over a year ago but I do remember that part of the conversation. It was as though I said the moon was made of green cheese. He just humored me.

Bottom line if you have the opportunity to inform someone in one of these so called federal organization you need to pick you words carefully or they will think you are a wacko. Or a extreme fundamentalist Christian with an ax to grind.

"They did give Bush that briefing didn't they?"

Posted by: PMK

Yes, PMK, and I suppose you can pin some culpability on Bush for 911 based on that.

Care to comment on Bubba's culpability based on this story?

http://www.infowars.com/saved%20pages/Prior_Knowledge/Clinton_let_bin_laden.htm

Clinton Let Bin Laden Slip Away and Metastasize

Back in 1999, India and Pakistan fought the Kargil war. That year a lot of Indian army ammo dumps had mysterious fires which destroyed a lot of ammo stored in the open, but well fenced (and presumably well guarded) areas.

These incidents had some common factors: (a) The fires were almost always at night. (b) These dumps had a village or slum nearby, around maybe half a mile or so.

Given this drone thing, these facts about add up. A drone gets launched in the direction of the dump at night. It gains height, the engine goes off and the firebomb silently glides to the ammo dump.

Looks like our elected officials and the agencies created to protect us are too wrapped up in political correctness to perform their duties. It may be necessary to form a
"well regulated militia" to deter the islamofacists from destroying us..

Clinton Let Bin Laden Slip Away and Metastasize

Posted by: Paleologus at August 24, 2008 12:38 AM

While Paleologus is right in the question, Americans placing their party above the nation, still do not realize that an arguement as above is not only fruitless, it is conuter-productive to arriving at the proper conclusion. However, to answer the above question yes, Clinton shoulders responsiblity of letting Bin Laden slip by. So, why did Americans hot hold Clinton to task for this slip? Why did Americans allow Clinton to sell American children to Islam: http://www.blessedcause.org/proof/Clinton%20Embracing%20Islam%20selling%20out%20children.htm

Bush's treason is far more than that of Clinton (not that both should not be tried), Considering the most devastating terror attack in the history of the world occurred in Bush's presidency, how inadequate was Bush's response:
- Allowed Bin Ladens to safery when all flights were grounded.
- Stalled congressional investigation into 9/11.
- Blackened references to Saudi Arabia from 9/11 interim report.
- Increased student's visas (same visas exploited by 9/11 terrorists) to Saudi Arabia.
- Included Saudi Arabia, the prime contributor to the 9/11 terror-team, as an "ally".
- Refused to place Saudi Arabia, Pakistan and Jordan on terror-sponsoring countries.
from the above, it is clear that Bush's family ties with AL-Sauds took presedence over America's national interests.
How can either Clinton's or Bush's treason be disregarded?
Americans should see the futility of countering Bush with Clinton. By countering Bush's treason with Clinton's, politicians get a free pass while Americans continue to pay with their tax-money, blood and lives, thanks to their corrupt and timid commander-in-chiefs.

Paleologus,
Touchy, aren't we? I never hinted at Bush's culpability. YOU DID! I don't blame Bush for 9/11. Do you?
I was pointing out how the FBI is so efficient that it thinks giving Bush three-year-old news means it is doing its job.
Sorry I didn't put the sarc button on. I didn't realize my words weren't understandable. Maybe you weren't watching the news but I heard as far back as the 1980s that Muslims wanted to attack the US.

Just so you know, Paleologus: no sarcasm here:

What was the FBI accomplishing with that brief, even as they had knowledge that Muslims wanted to enter flight school and that the DC JUSTICE DEPARTMENT wouldn't grant the Minnesota agents a warrant to examine Moussaoui's computer, even as they had him in custody.

If you think this is blaming Bush you can't see beyond the presidency. The president might head the executive branch but not everything lands on his desk. The buck might stop with the president but he can't act on things he is kept in the dark about. Those who report to him must answer for their own actions. My problem with Bush is that he doesn't believe in accountability, except if you're a lowly border agent doing your job or a Marine fighting in Iraq. Do your job a little too well and you'll end up jail for ten years or more.

"By countering Bush's treason with Clinton's, politicians get a free pass while Americans continue to pay with their tax-money, blood and lives, thanks to their corrupt and timid commander-in-chiefs."

Alert, well said.

As to Paleologus' question, it's irrelevant. It suggests that if only Clinton had accepted custody of bin Laden that none of the subsequent events would have happened. We can't know that. There were loads of Islamic terrorists who wanted to do damage to the US. They had more means of funding than the bin Laden inheritance. Paleologus focuses on bin Laden. Eliminating bin Laden would not have eliminated the threat. He wasn't the one who got into the US and onto those planes. Khalid Sheikh Mohammed could have gotten backing from other quarters even if Osama were dead and buried. I can't say that for certain but neither can anyone say that the chain of events that led up to 9/11 would never have happened if Clinton had taken bin Laden.
Clinton failed in his duty but there is no way of knowing how things would have turned out otherwise.
The real question is why we Americans continue to tolerate our leaders' failure to live up to their responsibilities. Clinton is deified by Democrats, Bush is blameless to some Republicans. Both parties are following Machiavelli: divide and rule. What will we do to put a stop to it?

All he was trying to do was offer it to the US military? What's wrong with that?

PMK/Alert

My whole point in resurrecting Clinton's culpability is that Bush is not the only POTUS that needs scrutiny as to mistakes made leading to 911. Actually, in recent times, I would argue the most culpable POTUS for mistakes leading to 911 is Jimmy Carter. His destabilization of the Shah led to the ascendancy of the Ayatollah Khomeini.

http://alanpetersworld.blogspot.com/2008/03/jimmah-idiot-carter-architect-of-our.html

I am hardly satisfied with the post 911 efforts of Bush. I am just reluctant to pin substantial blame on him for 911 itself.

Alert ... "arguement (sic) as above is not only fruitless, it is conuter-productive (sic) to arriving at the proper conclusion."

No, not counterproductive, the argument underscores that we are still making the same systemic mistake today, that is, handling the threat with kid gloves, (e.g., assigning US citizen legal rights to the vermin detained at Guantanamo.)

Alert, I won't go into the credibility of all your charges aginst Bush, except to point out that you forgot to mention Bush's biggest post 911 "sin" ... and that is to label Islam as a "religion of peace" ... and all the policy idiocies that flow from that mindset (e.g. the State Department ban on words like jihad, etc. the removal of Maj. Stephen Coughlin, a leading authority on Islamic war doctrine, from the Pentagon .. the list is endless on this issue). By the way, Bush's Secretary of State can't tell the difference between a resistance movement and a terrorist group.
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=56384

My point on culpability is not irrelevant. The reluctance to analyze our prior mistakes is exactly part of the thinking that will assure us of repeating these mistakes in the future.

PMK ... "The real question is why we Americans continue to tolerate our leaders' failure to live up to their responsibilities. Clinton is deified by Democrats, Bush is blameless to some Republicans. Both parties are following Machiavelli: divide and rule. What will we do to put a stop to it?"

PMK, you need to realize that, in spite of the problems with both parties and how they are not addressing the concept of global jihad, (and I admit the Saudi money is flowing into both camps) the Democrats are much more dangerous on this issue ... to wit, McCain is still willing to use the term "radical Islam", as for the Democrats? ... just look at two of Robert's posts today, "Biden denies existence of a war on terror" and "Meet Ingrid Mattson, appearing today at the Democratic National Convention."

Please stop equating both parties on the issue of Islam. One party, the Republicans, is admittedly seriously flawed. The Democrats, however, are totally clueless.

One party, the Republicans, is admittedly seriously flawed. The Democrats, however, are totally clueless.

Posted by: Paleologus at August 24, 2008 3:25 PM

Paleologus, You make good points in parts ("we are still making the same systemic mistake today" and "By the way, Bush's Secretary of State can't tell the difference between a resistance movement and a terrorist group.") but slip right back into the party-prism ("One party, the Republicans (sic), is admittedly seriously flawed. The Democrats (sic), however, are (sic) totally clueless.".. correct English would be "One party, the Republican, is admittedly seriously flawed. The Democratic-party, however, is totally clueless." ).

In the bargain, your post fails to address a critical question PMK has asked "Clinton is deified by Democrats, Bush is blameless to some Republicans. Both parties are following Machiavelli: divide and rule. What will we do to put a stop to it?".

Alert,

I don't consider what I posted to be party-prism. I am being a realist. There is no way in hell that a leader against the global jihad is going to come from the Democrats. The guy they have nominated for president is half muslim in my eyes, anyway. That means our only source for getting leaders who "get" the global jihad is the Republicans. There are very few Democrats who "get" it. There was that Democrat, can't remember his name, who resisted CAIR's attempt to silence Steve Emerson's testimony before Congress ... he qualifies. The congressionals who "get" it that I know of, Tom Tancredo, Peter King, Sue Myrick, (I am sure there are others), are all Republicans. Joe Lieberman "gets" it, and the Dems kicked him out, because he went public.

Alert ... "In the bargain, your post fails to address a critical question PMK has asked "Clinton is deified by Democrats, Bush is blameless to some Republicans. Both parties are following Machiavelli: divide and rule. What will we do to put a stop to it?".

My answer: ... Our only hope is to educate as many people as we can, just like Robert is doing with this site, so that we can force our leaders to face up to the threat of the global jihad ... no mean feat.

God help us to do this before it is not too late!

... but in the end, such a leader could NEVER come out of the Democratic Party as currently configured.

"God help us to do this before it is not too late!"

Didn't say that quite right.

God help us to do this before it is too late!

My answer: ... Our only hope is to educate as many people as we can, just like Robert is doing with this site, so that we can force our leaders to face up to the threat of the global jihad ... no mean feat.

God help us to do this before it is not too late!

Paleologus, your fear is right. It will be late if US sits about "educating as many people" (remember the "no child left behind" farce?). The effective way is to elect the right candidates and then, if they do not live up to their promise, impeach/remove them. By the way, Bush may have some answering to do:
http://www.c-spanarchives.org/library/index.php?main_page=product_video_info&products_id=202621-1