Definitely not as a Christian; sometimes as a Muslim apostate. Always as the best thing for Islam, no matter how much he "distances" himself from the faith. "Obama through Muslim eyes," by Daniel Pipes for the Jerusalem Post, August 25:
How do Muslims see Barack Obama? They have three choices: either as he presents himself, as one who has "never been a Muslim" and has "always been a Christian"; or as a fellow Muslim; or as an apostate from Islam.While simultaneously engaging in double-talk, by always praising Americans for picking such a candidate, thereby lulling America and its president, while biding more time for itself to regroup and go on the offensive -- which is exactly when they will denounce him as an apostate.Reports suggests that while Americans generally view the Democratic candidate having had no religion before converting at Rev. Jeremiah Wrights's hands at 27, Muslims the world over rarely see him as Christian but usually as either Muslim or ex-Muslim.
Lee Smith of the Hudson Institute explains why: "Barack Obama's father was Muslim and therefore, according to Islamic law, so is the candidate. In spite of the Koranic verses explaining that there is no compulsion in religion, a Muslim child takes the religion of his or her father... For Muslims around the world, non-American Muslims at any rate, they can only ever see Barack Hussein Obama as a Muslim."
In addition, his school record from Indonesia lists him as a Muslim. Thus, an Egyptian newspaper, Al-Masri al-Youm, refers to his "Muslim origins." Libyan ruler Muammar Gaddafi referred to Obama as "a Muslim" and a person with an "African and Islamic identity." One Al-Jazeera analysis calls him a "non-Christian man," a second refers to his "Muslim Kenyan" father, and a third, by Naseem Jamali, notes that "Obama may not want to be counted as a Muslim, but Muslims are eager to count him as one of their own."
A conversation in Beirut, quoted in the Christian Science Monitor, captures the puzzlement. "He has to be good for Arabs because he is a Muslim," observed a grocer. "He's not a Muslim, he's a Christian," replied a customer. Retorted the grocer: "He can't be a Christian. His middle name is Hussein." Arabic discussions of Obama sometimes mention his middle name as a code, with no further comment needed.[...]
BUT THIS excitement also has a dark side - suspicions that Obama is a traitor to his birth religion, an apostate (murtadd) from Islam. Al-Qaida has prominently featured Obama's statement "I am not a Muslim" and one analyst, Shireen K. Burki of the University of Mary Washington, sees Obama as "bin Laden's dream candidate." Should he become US commander-in-chief, she believes, Al-Qaida would likely "exploit his background to argue that an apostate is leading the global war on terror... to galvanize sympathizers into action."
In sum, Muslims puzzle over Obama's present religious status. They resist his self-identification as a Christian, while they assume a baby born to a Muslim father and named "Hussein" began life a Muslim.
Does this make him an apostate in the eyes of a typical muslim?
Plus, his other given name of Barak is too close for my comfort to Burak, the name of the magical flying mule that supposedly carried Mohammed to heaven.
...which is exactly when they will denounce him as an apostate.
On the other hand, if he looses and McCain becomes president, they will continue to declare Obama to be a Muslim and will rant about how America refused to allow a Muslim into office, and what an insult that is to Islam.
Having Obama in the race is a lose-lose situation for the US. Sorry guys, you're shafted.
"Obama may not want to be counted as a Muslim, but Muslims are eager to count him as one of their own."
THIS is what should concern American voters.
Obama is a man looking for acceptance. Will Obama's search for himself lead him to Islam? His extended family members are almost all on the father's side. The father's family was Muslim. Obama claims his father was an atheist but he was born into a Muslim family and raised as a Muslim. Obama himself told a fellow student: my grandfather was a Muslim. Obama's father had several children by his first wife. It's not clear that any of them were raised as atheists.
The main point is this: Muslims have high expectations from Obama, and this will feed into their sense of triumphalism if he wins. And this will make them not more pliant and sweeet-reasonable, but much more difficult to deal with. He can, of course, if he becomes President, demonstrate that such "expectations" that he remains deeply sympathetic to Islam were misplaced, but he will certainly be under an obligation -- to the people of America and to Infidels everywhere -- to do so.
And he will also have to do so in order to relieve allies, especially in Western Europe, as they try to come to grips, collectively if they can, individually if need be. The E.U. bureaucracy is regarded by many in Europe with growing mistrust, and even hatred, because of many of its policies, its bureaucratic meddling right down to definitions of foodstuffs (what is "pain au chocolat"? What is "Parmigiano reggiano"? What can be advertised as "panforte di Siena"?) but also, and importantly, because of the willingness of the E.U. bureacrats and leaders to collaborate with Defenders of the Faith, that Faith being Islam, who are determined to mandate, all over Europe, that schools will teach about Islam and its history and its relations with Western Christedom that will never cause offense to Muslims, while, of course, such carefully sanitized teachings, essentially propaganda on behalf of Islam, will help to make Europe forget its own history and achievements, and will constitute an offense to history and the truth.
Lose lose is right this guy flip flops even more then Kerry did.
Hamas supports this fool, Europe supports him, Russia Supports him, most countries listed as the axis of evil support him...Need we go on?
Muslim heritage, self loathing of his white grandmother/mother, Rezko funding, Chicago mob ties, Communist leanings and deep seeded Socialist values and rhetoric, his associations to people of dubious character add in wanting approval of his dead philandering Communist father by adopting his failed communist manifesto makes this guy down right dangerous. (wow hope my English teacher never reads this runon sentance!)
Piss poor econonmy, no concept of economics, foreign diplomacy and his wife is a nut.
Add in the Black Panther mentality a reported huge swelling increase in threats to his safety and the massive secret service escort he already has!
There are videos on youtube of his caravan only GWBuh's are larger.
McCain just took his SS caravan and it's tiny.
I can only imagine what will happen to America if he gets elected and some racist idiot....umm well never mind that's a line of thought best left unvoiced and hopefully nothing more then a nightmare.
God help us Imagine the ensuing racially motivated riots that would make the Los Angeles riots seem tame.
Is America ready For BHO?
McCain and BHO are they really the best candidates 330 million Americans can come up with?
Anyone else feel like America is coming apart at the seams?
From article: In sum, Muslims puzzle over Obama's present religious status...
They puzzle over it, I puzzle over it, you puzzle over it, we all puzzle over it together.
Muslims will like an Obama president as long as he appeases...If he is ever 'forced' to get tough, some muslims may then call him an apostate, and demand punishment.
The President is always in danger, but this extra danger potential is unnecessary...Just elect the other guy who does not seem to have this problem...
The man OBVIOUSLY has 'father issues' which of course, are all intertwined with personal 'Muslim Issues' and why would such a man at this time in U.S. history be a candidate for President? It is beyond bizarre.
I've posted this at the end of several threads over the last couple of days and thought this would be a good place to repost it...a voter's guide for 2008.
See http://www.truthformuslims.com/guide/2008guide.pdf
Of course, to even mention the fact that many Muslims worldwide see Obama as one of them (which is eminently true) is to be accused of hate speech, especially by those on the Far Left, masters that they are in true hate speech. Phony world.
Oh, please, who thinks this man is a Christian? Look at what his church of 20 years taught, look at his voting record. And even if these things were consistent with Biblical standards, that means nothing.
A Christian is someone who believes that Jesus Christ was who He claimed to be - God incarnate, and who believes that forgiveness is found only through Him. Somehow I can't see Obama standing up and saying that Jesus Christ is the way and the truth and the life and that no one comes to the Father but through Him.
***
But aside from all that, why does he continue to insist he's not a Muslim? I thought being a Muslim was a good thing? If I was a Muslim I'd be insulted at the way he runs from the accusation!
.....and named "Hussein" began life a Muslim.
I thought we all began life as a Muslim???
But aside from all that, why does he continue to insist he's not a Muslim? I thought being a Muslim was a good thing? If I was a Muslim I'd be insulted at the way he runs from the accusation!
Posted by: Mo
Maybe not. If he's doing this in accordance with taqiyya, a Muslim might just wink at him. He'd accept the deception and the apparent rejection, secure in the knowledge that Obama was indeed a fellow member of the ummah and was simply doing what circumstances required.
I think the saying, "Perception is reality" applies here. To them he is a Muslim, period. And since I expect an Obama presidency would work hard to appease Islam, weaken our armed forces and pal around with our enemies as he undermines our nation, his religion doesn't matter to me.
Pesonally, I think he's a commie atheist. I believe he just pretends to be a Christian for the "benefit" of his electoral chances. It's telling that his "church" is a Liberation Theology type. Remember his statement about how people in small towns across America cling to their guns and religion out of despair? Just another way of saying "religion is the opiate of the people." Typical commie boiler plate stuff.
Lose Lose
Obama, a closet muslim or a "Christian" with a twenty year association with a black surpemacist preacher ... these are my choices?
Would anyone believe we could be this close to electing a POTUS, that has this heavy a connection to Islam, just seven years after 911?
Have we lost our minds?
Here are some things to consider when considderring the candidacy of Obama. First, he comes from Illinois machine politics, a pay to play system whereby those with clout skim off the top through a legally sanctioned system. He was a protege and creation of senate president Emil Jones who is retiring and has placed his sons name in nomination for his senate seat.
Though patronage was attacked by the reforms of the early 20th century, TR, Taft, and Wilson all had civil service reforms that were put in to proffesionalize government and end the spoils system of politics, In Illinois, the system continues to be patronage driven and civil workers are expected to also get out the vote.
Nepotism and cronysim are rampant, where the system avoids being regularly attacked is that clout heavy republicans are also given a table at the trough. I suppose one could say it is a new kind of politics, but it essentially adds to the cost of government, a kind of corruption tax.
Illinois used to have a counterweight to Chicago, communities across the state where there was a certain amount of financial independance. Industrialists in places like the quad cities, Rockford, Peoria would resist Chicago and being tied to chicago was the kiss of death, now with rampant globalization the financial independance of all the towns and villages has been destroyed and with the new federalism made by Nixon and continued by every president since, independance has been replaced with the concept of intradependance which is something of an oxymoron since it is a one way street.
Therefore in Ohio and pennsylvania where people rightly see globalization as a war on american middle class values, Hillarys call to ammend part of Gatt and nafta gained traction, Obama also came out against the trend, but had an aide reassure foreign interests that the stance was political expediency, and nothing would change in the looting that has been ongoing.
Just for the sake of even handedness, Mccain is also a globalist, he also engages in the deceptive rhetoric of globalization, he has sponsored bills that would further annihilate national sovereignty.
I say this not to discourage patriots, but to make them aware that both parties have been purchased by powerful interests, and no longer have the national interest at stake, though I also believe that there is an element of delusion that what they are doing is best for the nation.
Hugh sez:
Muslims have high expectations from Obama, and this will feed into their sense of triumphalism if he wins.
That is certainly the case and must be expected.
For me, Obama remains a Muslim, since he is the son of a Muslim father and an American white 'revert' , and because he lived his formative years as a Muslim. Obama sitting on a church-bench listening to the hateful, deranged sermons of jeremiah Wright ('Black Liberation Theology' does not in any way differ from Islamic hate-ideology, in fact Islam and Jeremiah Wright's sermons don't differ from the hatred you hear in the mosques around the world in the Friday kuthba) does not make Hussein Obama a Christian.
Besides, Obama is on record stating that he 'will stand with the Muslims' when things get tough, or some such.
Baraq Hussein Obama is the most dangerous man EVER to be put up for election as president of the United States.
That lady Shireen Burki referenced in the article who wrote that bin Laden sees Obama as an apostate, she's a Muslim herself. In her Christian Science Monitor article, she refers to Mohammed this way:
"the Hadith (sayings of the prophet Muhammad, peace be upon him)."
http://www.csmonitor.com/2008/0519/p09s02-coop.html
Check out the anti-Obama ad at Michelle Malkin's blog. The Obama camp is threatening to sick the Justic Dept on the producers.
The anti-Obama ad is online here:
http://www.americanissuesproject.org
... the folks that produced the ad.
BTW The mohammedans will refer to him as Hussein, and take it as proof that he is in some part or degree mohammedan. But it's still a major no-no among Americans.
I really quite enjoy referring to him as B. Hussein. It drives a lot of people completely nuts. Separates the sheep from the goats. And it's amusing as hell.
BTW
I'm never quite clear on when B. Hussein left mohammedanism or converted, if indeed he did, to Christianity. His trinity church doesn't strike me as a particularly normal mainstream sort of church. And I have my doubts about whether it's the sort of place where one does a formal conversion.
But if RS says that B. Hussein is not a mohammedan, or at least hasn't been one for some time, that's good enough for me.
But I do think it's legitimate to raise questions about his upbringing and education -- especially since B. Hussein himself advertises his ... how shall I say, multi-cultural background as some sort of big advantage.
I think it is generally agreed that he received his early education in Indonesia, and to one degree or another, as a mohammedan.
So I think it's perfectly legitimate to ask to what degree and how those formative experiences influenced his outlook.
Indonesia is nobody's idea of a center of enlightenment. And a mohammedan education is a very poor predictor of intellectual attainments or an enlightened pro-man, pro-freedom, pro-rights outlook.
So if B. Hussein is going to advertise that his early years affected him, we have every right to ask whether that effect wasn't really a bad one -- regardless of B. Hussein's obvious high regard for himself.
Given what all else we have been seeing come out of Indonesia in recent years, it's a perfectly reasonable question.
I think it's a pretty safe bet that an Indonesian and mohammedan early education didn't do much to solidify his identity as an American or instill a deep and reflexively American feeling for freedom or the rights of man.
What is the problem with people seeing BHO as he really is?
He calls himslef African American, when he is actually 1/2 white. He calls his grandmother, who raised him, "a typical white person". What do his white supporters NOT see here?
From what I've read, his real name was Barry (a pretty wholesome name) but he later changed it to the Arabic "Barack".
He hangs out with terrorists, spent 20 years in a church that spewed anti-white rhetoric (which he was TOTALLY unaware of, but supposidly Oprah left years before BECAUSE of what was being preached there) and looks up to people, like Rev. White, who are racist. He swears up and down he was never Muslim, but yet his school records state his religion as such. So, he WAS a Muslim, at least in childhood. And I'm sorry folks, that counts as being a Muslim, at least in the past.
His wife, earlier in the game, was never proud of her country until (oh, but I understand now she absolutely LOVES her country), and in a recent article I read, a brother in Kenya who is poor, stated that he feels he embarasses his brother Barack, which, in my humble opinion, one can only feel that way if he is made in some way to feel inferior.
Probably what I distrust him the most for, is his lack of revealing his Muslim heritage until some in the media forced it out of him. What was he afraid of? I would have had no problem with his heritage had he been up front about it from the start. But he wasn't, which casts doubts.
I've said all along that there has been something funny about his sudden rise as the Democrat's presidential candidate. The entire thing is making no sense, which is also making me feel that there is something terribly wrong here.
Finally, why is Obama making it known that his daughters will get a dog that he promised, win or lose? I certainly would not sell that family one. I'd give that poor animal a few years at the most, before it finds itself in the nearest shelter, and two little girls with broken hearts, as I cannot see either Obamas having much patience with a pet.
If Obama is Christian, is he a Christian Sunni or a Christian Shiia?
Samhein wrote:
From what I've read, his real name was Barry (a pretty wholesome name) but he later changed it to the Arabic "Barack".
...................................
"Barack" is Obama's given name. "Barry" was a nickname. Still, it is interesting that he doesn't use the more accessible "Barry" anymore.