"Some 15 Dutch soldiers of the former Netherlands battalion stationed in Srebrenica during the Bosnian civil war came to Belgrade on Wednesday, offering to testify in the Hague tribunal on behalf of Dr. Karadzic [...]
'We talked about their possible testimony. They stressed that the Serbs did not commit war crimes against the Muslim civilians when they were passing through several dozen of their villages [in Srebrenica municipality] the Dutch soldiers were securing. They came over at their own expense and said they will testify and invite more of their fellow soldiers to testify too. [...]'
'They said in Srebrenica at the time they had to protect themselves from the Muslims, rather than protect Muslims from the Serbs. Serb Army, according to them, was helping the Muslim women and their children, bringing them food and water' [...]"
How's that? Dutch UN soldiers who were witnesses of what happened, want to testify on behalf of "genocidal-monstrous-buthcer-murderer" Karadzic. More than that, they claim Serbian Army protected and helped Muslim civilians and that real vilians were in fact Bosnian Muslims.
Strange, isn't it?
That's him. That's why he's in the Hague on trial for war crimes. Just like Eichmann.
"Butcher" is spelled this way. And that defines both Slobo and Karadzic. Along with their ordered mass-rape of girls and women, often followed by their murders.
Great interview with Raymond Ibrahim. Congratulations to JW for snagging this gifted individual for the team!
I especially liked his analysis that Islam appeals to the human psyche as a power ideology, in that the need for power and violence are latent in all people to some extent, and that Islam brings these negative traits out and makes them a divine imperative. Yet none of the other major religions are like that. Why? Perhaps the reason is that prior to the development of the major religions, more primitive belief systems did indeed encourage power and violence. Over time, however, those ideologies died out or became sublimated to more sophisticated belief systems as people learned that such destructive impulses had to be marginalized. Such notions as forgiveness and universal respect for human life help society function, and are therefore pragmatic.
Islam makes a big deal about its wars with pagans, yet in many respects it resembles paganism, its more primitive adversary.
I like to think that eventually Islam will go the way of other primitive religions because its adherents will gradually perceive that it harms their own interests.
re. Islam - your remark on it being a 'paganism' of a primitive kind, is bang on the money.
Franz Rosenzweig (a Jewish religious philosopher) pegged it for that, way back. Alain Besancon, in his long preface to "Jacques Ellul: Islam et Judeo-Christianisme" (introducing Ellul's two major essays on Islam - 'Les Trois Piliers du Conformisme', and the discussion of dhimmitude originally written as foreword for The Dhimmi) offers a similar assessment.
And here is Ellul's discussion of the matter, in his final completed work, 'Ce Dieu Injuste? Theologie Chretienne pour le Peuple d'Israel' [1991] (which examines Paul's letter to the Romans, chapter 9-11, in order to show that antisemitism as historically practised in 'christendom' in fact has no real foundation or justification in the Christian scriptures).
In the course of the exposition, Ellul includes a short excursus on the subject of 'paganism'.
I will give the passage in two sections, each time first the French, then a rough - a very rough! - English translation.
"Qu'il s'agisse du culte de Mithra ou des survivances des cultes grecs et latins traditionnels, il est evident que Paul englobes tout cela sous le nom de paiens.
'Les religion qui sont apparues apres ne presentent aucune nouveaute.
'Que ce soit l'islam, le communisme, l'idolatrie de la'argent, le nazisme, le maoisme, tout cela ne presente strictement rien de neuf au point de vue spirituel et theologique.
:Que l'islam se pretende le point d'aboutissement, de perfection, d'achevement du judaisme et du christianisme (bien des deviations du christianisme - gnosticisme, etc - ont pretendu la meme chose) N'A RIEN DE NOUVEAU."
- Whether one speaks of the cult of Mithras or of the survivals of traditional Greek and Latin cults, it is clear that Paul includes them all under the name of 'pagans'.
'The religions that have appeared since then offer nothing new.
"Whether it is Islam, communism, worship of money, nazism, Maoism, all this - strictly speaking - offers nothing new from a spiritual or theological point of view.
'Although Islam pretends to be the point of conclusion, of perfection, of achievement of Judaism and of Christianity (plenty of deviations from Christianity - gnosticism, etc - pretended the same thing) IT CONTAINS NOTHING NEW {my emphasis -dda}.
Nous devons y noter un recul enorme au point de vue spirituel, moral et humain. L'islam est une heresie du judeo-christianisme, comme le montanisme. Ni plus ni moins. Quant a avoir du 'zele pour Dieu', il ne faut pas se laisser pieger par la pretendue possibilite de rencontre des monotheismes.
Autant le 'monotheisme' juif concorde avec le 'monotheisme trinitaire' chretien, autant le monotheisme solipsiste msulman N'A RIEN A EN FAIRE *PARCE QU*'ALLAH N'A AUCUN POINT COMMUN AVEC LE DIEU BIBLIQUE; IL EN EST, EN TOUT, L'INVERSE {my emphasis - dda}.
- We have to remark in Islam a giant step backward, from the moral, human and spiritual point of view. Islam is a heresy of Judeo-Christianity, like Montanism. No more, no less. As for having 'a zeal for God', we must not let ourselves be taken in by the pretended possibility of a meeting of the monotheisms.
- Inasmuch as Jewish 'monotheism' agrees with Christian 'trinitarian monotheism', to that degree the solipsistic Muslim monotheism has nothing to do with it, *because* 'Allah' has nothing at all in common with the Biblical God; he is, in everything, the reverse.
'D'ailleurs, on avait connu, dans le paganisme, bien d'autres 'monotheismes'; car, en opposition a l'erreur commune, presque tous les 'polytheismes' reconnaissaient un Dieu unique, superieur a l'univers des dieux, mais que l'on ne pouvait ni nommer ni connaitre.
'Les musulmanes sont des paiens comme les autres. Et tout ce qui a ete dit par Paul des paiens s'applique a eux aussi.
- Moreover, people have known plenty of other 'monotheisms' in the pagan world; for, contrary to common error, almost all 'polytheisms' acknowledged a unique God, beyond the universe of the 'gods', but whom one could neither name nor know.
- The Muslims are pagans like the rest. And everything Paul has said about the pagans applies to the Muslims, too."
I like to think that eventually Islam will go the way of other primitive religions because its adherents will gradually perceive that it harms their own interests.
Posted by: jewdog
Jewdog, unfortunately, 1400 years of Islam's anti western pursuits tells us this is wishful thinking. Somehow, Islam needs to be confronted, or we are all going to go under the shariah yoke. Waiting for Islam to turn a new leaf is an exercise in futility.
Completely OT, just short message for my friend Wellington as per our previous discussion:
This is very interesting:
http://byzantinesacredart.com/blog/2008/08/dutch_soldiers_to_testify_in_k.html
"Some 15 Dutch soldiers of the former Netherlands battalion stationed in Srebrenica during the Bosnian civil war came to Belgrade on Wednesday, offering to testify in the Hague tribunal on behalf of Dr. Karadzic [...]
'We talked about their possible testimony. They stressed that the Serbs did not commit war crimes against the Muslim civilians when they were passing through several dozen of their villages [in Srebrenica municipality] the Dutch soldiers were securing. They came over at their own expense and said they will testify and invite more of their fellow soldiers to testify too. [...]'
'They said in Srebrenica at the time they had to protect themselves from the Muslims, rather than protect Muslims from the Serbs. Serb Army, according to them, was helping the Muslim women and their children, bringing them food and water' [...]"
How's that? Dutch UN soldiers who were witnesses of what happened, want to testify on behalf of "genocidal-monstrous-buthcer-murderer" Karadzic. More than that, they claim Serbian Army protected and helped Muslim civilians and that real vilians were in fact Bosnian Muslims.
Strange, isn't it?
LazarOf Serbia: As you say...very interesting indeed. And this is just the tip of the iceberg. Post that on LGF. I can't.
Good to know you're not the overeducated kind of scholar, Raymond, and have the ability to tell it like it is.
I just finished listening to the interview - simple and powerful. Congratulations Raymond!
I can't seem to bring up the link to the interview. Anyone else having this difficulty?
Great Interview!
.
Eastview,
Here is a link to the interview in Quicktime player.
http://blogtalk.vo.llnwd.net/o23/shows/show_252648.mp3
abinitio... Thanks!
"genocidal-monstrous-buthcer-murderer" Karadzic."
That's him. That's why he's in the Hague on trial for war crimes. Just like Eichmann.
"Butcher" is spelled this way. And that defines both Slobo and Karadzic. Along with their ordered mass-rape of girls and women, often followed by their murders.
You're not biased, are you, Serb?
Great interview with Raymond Ibrahim. Congratulations to JW for snagging this gifted individual for the team!
I especially liked his analysis that Islam appeals to the human psyche as a power ideology, in that the need for power and violence are latent in all people to some extent, and that Islam brings these negative traits out and makes them a divine imperative. Yet none of the other major religions are like that. Why? Perhaps the reason is that prior to the development of the major religions, more primitive belief systems did indeed encourage power and violence. Over time, however, those ideologies died out or became sublimated to more sophisticated belief systems as people learned that such destructive impulses had to be marginalized. Such notions as forgiveness and universal respect for human life help society function, and are therefore pragmatic.
Islam makes a big deal about its wars with pagans, yet in many respects it resembles paganism, its more primitive adversary.
I like to think that eventually Islam will go the way of other primitive religions because its adherents will gradually perceive that it harms their own interests.
Darcy,
How do you explain that Dutch peacekeepers want to testify on behalf of Karadzic? They know better than you and me what happened.
Here is what they say: "Serb Army, according to them, was helping the Muslim women and their children, bringing them food and water".
Does not sound like a "mass rape" to me.
jewdog
re. Islam - your remark on it being a 'paganism' of a primitive kind, is bang on the money.
Franz Rosenzweig (a Jewish religious philosopher) pegged it for that, way back. Alain Besancon, in his long preface to "Jacques Ellul: Islam et Judeo-Christianisme" (introducing Ellul's two major essays on Islam - 'Les Trois Piliers du Conformisme', and the discussion of dhimmitude originally written as foreword for The Dhimmi) offers a similar assessment.
And here is Ellul's discussion of the matter, in his final completed work, 'Ce Dieu Injuste? Theologie Chretienne pour le Peuple d'Israel' [1991] (which examines Paul's letter to the Romans, chapter 9-11, in order to show that antisemitism as historically practised in 'christendom' in fact has no real foundation or justification in the Christian scriptures).
In the course of the exposition, Ellul includes a short excursus on the subject of 'paganism'.
I will give the passage in two sections, each time first the French, then a rough - a very rough! - English translation.
"Qu'il s'agisse du culte de Mithra ou des survivances des cultes grecs et latins traditionnels, il est evident que Paul englobes tout cela sous le nom de paiens.
'Les religion qui sont apparues apres ne presentent aucune nouveaute.
'Que ce soit l'islam, le communisme, l'idolatrie de la'argent, le nazisme, le maoisme, tout cela ne presente strictement rien de neuf au point de vue spirituel et theologique.
:Que l'islam se pretende le point d'aboutissement, de perfection, d'achevement du judaisme et du christianisme (bien des deviations du christianisme - gnosticisme, etc - ont pretendu la meme chose) N'A RIEN DE NOUVEAU."
- Whether one speaks of the cult of Mithras or of the survivals of traditional Greek and Latin cults, it is clear that Paul includes them all under the name of 'pagans'.
'The religions that have appeared since then offer nothing new.
"Whether it is Islam, communism, worship of money, nazism, Maoism, all this - strictly speaking - offers nothing new from a spiritual or theological point of view.
'Although Islam pretends to be the point of conclusion, of perfection, of achievement of Judaism and of Christianity (plenty of deviations from Christianity - gnosticism, etc - pretended the same thing) IT CONTAINS NOTHING NEW {my emphasis -dda}.
Nous devons y noter un recul enorme au point de vue spirituel, moral et humain. L'islam est une heresie du judeo-christianisme, comme le montanisme. Ni plus ni moins. Quant a avoir du 'zele pour Dieu', il ne faut pas se laisser pieger par la pretendue possibilite de rencontre des monotheismes.
Autant le 'monotheisme' juif concorde avec le 'monotheisme trinitaire' chretien, autant le monotheisme solipsiste msulman N'A RIEN A EN FAIRE *PARCE QU*'ALLAH N'A AUCUN POINT COMMUN AVEC LE DIEU BIBLIQUE; IL EN EST, EN TOUT, L'INVERSE {my emphasis - dda}.
- We have to remark in Islam a giant step backward, from the moral, human and spiritual point of view. Islam is a heresy of Judeo-Christianity, like Montanism. No more, no less. As for having 'a zeal for God', we must not let ourselves be taken in by the pretended possibility of a meeting of the monotheisms.
- Inasmuch as Jewish 'monotheism' agrees with Christian 'trinitarian monotheism', to that degree the solipsistic Muslim monotheism has nothing to do with it, *because* 'Allah' has nothing at all in common with the Biblical God; he is, in everything, the reverse.
'D'ailleurs, on avait connu, dans le paganisme, bien d'autres 'monotheismes'; car, en opposition a l'erreur commune, presque tous les 'polytheismes' reconnaissaient un Dieu unique, superieur a l'univers des dieux, mais que l'on ne pouvait ni nommer ni connaitre.
'Les musulmanes sont des paiens comme les autres. Et tout ce qui a ete dit par Paul des paiens s'applique a eux aussi.
- Moreover, people have known plenty of other 'monotheisms' in the pagan world; for, contrary to common error, almost all 'polytheisms' acknowledged a unique God, beyond the universe of the 'gods', but whom one could neither name nor know.
- The Muslims are pagans like the rest. And everything Paul has said about the pagans applies to the Muslims, too."
Terrific interview, Raymond. I, too, am glad to see you join the JW team.
Mr. Ibrahim:
Thank you for posting a link to your interview, which as outstanding (as my cohost and I knew it would be).
I like to think that eventually Islam will go the way of other primitive religions because its adherents will gradually perceive that it harms their own interests.
Posted by: jewdog
Jewdog, unfortunately, 1400 years of Islam's anti western pursuits tells us this is wishful thinking. Somehow, Islam needs to be confronted, or we are all going to go under the shariah yoke. Waiting for Islam to turn a new leaf is an exercise in futility.