Thug-In-Chief: Israel a "germ of corruption" to be "removed soon"

And the world yawns. But just imagine if the American President had said this about, say, Iran. "Ahmadinejad calls Israel 'germ of corruption' to be 'removed soon,'" from the Associated Press, August 20 (thanks to Dionysius):

Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad is calling Israel a "germ of corruption" that will be "removed soon."

The comments were posted Wednesday on his presidential Web site. They appear to be part of an effort to defuse criticism by hard-liners over recent remarks made by a high-level official.

Last week, Iranian media quoted Vice President Esfandiar Rahim Mashai as saying Iranians were "friends of all people in the world - even Israelis."...

Horror of horrors!

| 51 Comments
Print this entry | Email this entry | Digg this | del.icio.us |

51 Comments

One is left to a vision that Ahmadinghad --pronounced:(a mad nut job)spends nights creating his continuous varity of threats against Israel. Certainly there must be an entire portfolio of his threats somewhere by now.

He epitimizes the boy across the street who was told bad things about his neighbor, so on occassions he feels empowered while in the company of his gang to shout threats at that neighbor who he really does not truly even know.

And check this out:

http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1219218601033&pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FShowFull

COWARD COUNTRY USA!

TRAITOR COUNTRY USA!

It is a lot more committed to the rabidly racist, sadistic, genocidal Kosovar Albanian KLA terrorists, church-destroyers, Christianity eradicators, mass child rapists, child-sex-slave traffickers, torturers, murderers, organ-harvesters, even going to war for them murdering Christians to make the terrorists the masters of Kosovo. The cowardly government of ours never says "no" to ANY weapons requeasts from Saudi Arabia. It has just picked an absolutely needles fight with Russia, but is terrified of creating ANY impression that it might approve of Israel's preventing nuclear terrorism. Planes denied to replace those worn-off after 30 years of use, requests by Israel for US planes' electronic recognition codes to prevent accidental clashes over Iraq turned down, Israel's offer of its own planes' codes rejected, satellite pictures denied in violation of security treaties. The US government cowards are doing their damnest to prevent Israel from saving the world from nuclear jihad. This so-called "superpower" of owrs that is so terrified of a much smaller, stand-alone, non-Arab Muslim country that does not have nuclear weapons YET makes the English in Munich 70 years ago look courageous. This debilitating cowardice is not logical, it is pathological. Disgrace! I am ashamed to be an American!

Ruslan Tokhchukov, EnragedSince1999.

Disgrace! I am ashamed to be an American!

Ruslan Tokhchukov, EnragedSince1999.

If you took a poll in America, I'm sure that close to 90% of Americans would approved the sale of refueling aircraft to Israel. I have watched these idiots in Washington for a long time now, and what should be "up" is down and what should be "down" is up in Washington. My opinion is that there are large money flows that none of us know anything about. There is no other reason for this kind of behaviour.

If this decision is final, I would recommend that Israel make a public issue out of this decision. Without refueling aircraft, what good are the fighters that Washington gladly sold to Israel recently.

This news is disgusting to me also and I will call my Senator on this.

The true meaning behind the name Ahmadinejad is: angry broken record.

Ahmad is projecting again - he just can't bring himself to admit that he is in fact the germ of corruption that needs to be removed.

Spot on:
I have a feeling this falls under the heading of "plausible deniability", or at the least, mis-information. It is not necessary for the general public to know everything, nor necessary for the truth to be told every time. Kinda like the weather balloon explanation at area 51, which never existed, or stealth technology, which showed up magically, but where was it developed, how long was it in existance, how was it funded, why would we share electronic codes with israel, or sell them refueling tankers, when there is no need, we don't anticipate any problems over there, we have no satellites above iran, we have no operatives in the pak/afghan border area, etc.
Later
Albert

ImANut is continually testing the free world to see how far he can go and what he can get away with. Answer to that: everything.

Some day it won't be 'just rhetoric'.

I have a feeling this falls under the heading of "plausible deniability", or at the least, mis-information.

Gamblers Choice

I sure hope you are right about that.

"Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad is calling Israel a "germ of corruption" that will be "removed soon."

Dear NutJob,

YOU are the "germ of corruption." And hopefully YOU will be "removed soon." Along with your evil, mass-murdering Fascist/Nazi ideology of Islam.

Spot on, I hope that he's right about that too (the mis-dis-info). If not, then we truly are in Wonderland where everything is backwards.

The question arises then though, WHY would they give out mis/dis information about that? Makes no sense to me, we have always been up front about selling Israel war stuff.

gymgal, I did call my Senators office about this. They knew nothing. I always have a distrust of what goes on in the clown world of Washington

Spot on, well that's good that you called then!! Now your senator knows anyway, lol.

And I too distrust them all down there.

What was that old joke about the government? Something about "we're only here to help", lol.

If you follow the sequence of development in countries like the U.S., China, the old U.S.S.R, Britain and France, the sequence of events follows this sequence:
1. Develop nuclear weapons
2. Develop production nuclear energy plants
3. Develop Intercontinental Ballistic missiles
4. Develop satellites

I wonder how many people in the world really believe that the Islamic Republic of Iran is skipping steps one and three? Can I sell them some oceanfront property in Iowa?

I have a question I hope can be answered.

Can a Muslim lie to everyone, including Muslims to further Islam? Can they say something like, I was never and am not now a Muslim? Are statements like this permissible to further the islamic religion?

gymgal, you mean, "We are from the government, and we are here to help you."

Ahmadinejad calls Israel 'germ of corruption' to be 'removed soon
it sounds more like the mulla-idiot-cy he represents

ha does anyone know why sheikyermami.com has been disabled

check this out:

http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1219218601033&pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FShowFull

COWARD COUNTRY USA!

TRAITOR COUNTRY USA!

It is a lot more committed to the rabidly racist, sadistic, genocidal Kosovar Albanian KLA terrorists, church-destroyers, Christianity eradicators, mass child rapists, child-sex-slave traffickers, torturers, murderers, organ-harvesters, even going to war for them murdering Christians to make the terrorists the masters of Kosovo. The cowardly government of ours never says "no" to ANY weapons requeasts from Saudi Arabia. It has just picked an absolutely needles fight with Russia, but is terrified of creating ANY impression that it might approve of Israel's preventing nuclear terrorism. Planes denied to replace those worn-off after 30 years of use, requests by Israel for US planes' electronic recognition codes to prevent accidental clashes over Iraq turned down, Israel's offer of its own planes' codes rejected, satellite pictures denied in violation of security treaties. The US government cowards are doing their damnest to prevent Israel from saving the world from nuclear jihad. This so-called "superpower" of owrs that is so terrified of a much smaller, stand-alone, non-Arab Muslim country that does not have nuclear weapons YET makes the English in Munich 70 years ago look courageous. This debilitating cowardice is not logical, it is pathological. Disgrace! I am ashamed to be an American!

Ruslan Tokhchukov, EnragedSince1999.

Posted by: Enragedsince1999 at August 20, 2008 2:13 PM


The frustration express herein is completely understandable; and there was a time when I would have been angered by such expression.

I have come to a place where I draw a line between "the government" and "the individuals" who actually run it; the former being only as good as the later and the later having nothing whatsoever to do with "the people" who compose the nation.

From this point of view I have come to realize that all the treason against the people and the country is the result of simple corruption by individuals who abuse the powers vested in their respective offices.

They no more represent the nation or the people of the nation than the man-in-the-moon.

The ape-man of rants because he knows he can; he knows he can because the people who could stop him won't; the people won't because in the first place they really don't care -- their priority is first and foremost "profits."

The people who run the American government are driven by the ideology of profits and anything that does not run contrary to the realization of that goal is tolerated.

The next dynasty that is about to rule America is driven by the ideology of personal power and these new masters will equally tolerate the ape as long as they have a strangle-hold on power in the U.S.

What distinguishes our leaders from "theirs" in my opinion is that "their" leaders believe in something larger and more important than themselves.

Our leaders believe in no power greater than their own ambition and personal egos -- everything is subservient to that.

In the end, "We the people of the United States" are left high and dry with a corrupt band of theieves who care no more about the nation they are supposed to serve than the sworn enemies are who have vowed to destroy both us and Israel.

Perhaps Israel's diety will come to their rescue in the end (even though no one in Israel really truly believes in the diety unless it appears on a bank note); we on the other hand will probably end up in the "dust bin of histroy" for exactly the same reasons that other great nations and empires before us have fallen.

We like the Romans have corrupt leaders who, have prostituted what was built by preceeding generations and entrusted to them, for their own personal gain -- never caring about the effects of their own personal greed.

We will never be defeated by an outside enemy because we have already defeated ourselves from within.

This thug is nothing but an attention whore.
He knows full well that as soon as he utters any of his vile rhetoric regarding Israel then the western news agencies will sit up and listen.

A thoroughly odious man yes - but a paper tiger.
This doesn't mean to say the country he represents can't cause any damage and death that they seem to love but the type of confrontation he seems to be advocating will result in their total annihilation, so a bit dumb really...but one thing is for sure, with his big mouth he has successfully united the international community against his country.

AP report:
Ahmadinejad Says Israel to Be 'Removed Soon'
Posted 6 hours, 2 minutes ago in World
(Newser) – Mahmoud Ahmadinejad called Israel “a germ of corruption” to be “removed soon” in comments on his presidential website today, the AP reports. While the outburst is nothing new for the Iranian leader, the posts were probably meant to reassure hawks enraged by the vice president’s comments last week that Iranians are “friends of all people in the world—even Israelis.”

"...reassure hawks"? Is that what those demented perverts are called? Please do not insult innocent avians.

I am not ashamed to be an American and I don't take it kindly that there are some who are. America is the greatest political entity in the history of man. None better (anyone care to prove me wrong?). This doesn't mean that America is always right. Far from it. But I would invoke here the German immigrant, Carl Schurz, who rose to become Senator from Missouri and Secretary of the Interior in Rutherford B. Hayes' cabinet. He asserted the following about his beloved adopted country: "My country right or wrong. If right to be kept right. If wrong to be put right."

Anyone who is an American and feels ashamed of America and continues to live here should be put into the parasitical category. I have no time for such folk. Done here.

Anyone who is an American and feels ashamed of America and continues to live here should be put into the parasitical category. I have no time for such folk. Done here.

Posted by: Wellington at August 20, 2008 9:21 PM


Once upon a time when I was younger, I thought I could be "ashamed of being American" whatever that means.

Then, one day, I found myself in a hostile country looking down a gun barrel because "I was an American."

Any youthful notion that I might have entertained about "being ashamed that I was American," vanished forever.

Be patient with those who have not been in such situtations.

Hey Sheikyermami, what's up with the suspension?

@ leeve. The answer is YES.

We are transferring to another provider.

I would recommend any blog-operator not to use blue host.

We'll be 'Porn-again' shortly!

NICE PICTURE ABOUT stupid occidentals as to islamic danger:
http://fr.news.yahoo.com/delize/20080821/img/pen-dessin-du-jour-quelle-g-532b65778cb20.html

TRANSLATION: "Islamists in war against us? Where is it?"

It is not specifically in link with this text of Robert, it is just in link with all jihadwatch.com.

Regarding the report that the US has refused to sell upgraded air refueling tankers to Israel, I, too, suspect that this refusal is merely temporary, and that "ways will be found" to quietly supply them in due time with these capabilities. Americans in general are overwhelmingly sympathetic to Israel, notable exceptions Dhimmi Kadr and his ilk notwithstanding. We're not about to do anything to put at risk the security of the only rational, democratic, Western oriented country in the entire Middle East that we can count as a true friend.

The reasoning behind dis-information should be obvious. Kinda like the statement "cannot confirm or deny", if we say we are not supplying/co-operating with entity "x", and stories arise through our free press that contradict that, or that we are not supplying entity "y", etc., you can keep the enemy in the dark. Is the official statement true, is the press on to something, are both stories true or false? He has to assume things not evident, or engage in an extensive spy network, further endangering his position. With imadinnerjacket, his ego forces him to act or speak in ways that will appease his masters, or his followers, or whoever his rhetoric is aimed at.
I remember a discussion previous that considers the persian penchant for chess. They may not appear to have a winning position, but their planning is designed with future moves, twenty moves from now in mind.
So, maybe we just "push a pawn", or sacrifice a knight, but we see checkmate in fifteen moves.
Later
Albert

Out here on the left coast, there is--with a few exceptions--little fear of Iran's bellicosity--instead, most people are hysterical over the idea that the US or Israel will launch an "unprovoked" attack against poor little Iran.

Now, I have mixed feelings about this scenario, also, with the US stretched so thin in Afghanistan and Iraq--but many of the left-wing want to assure Iran that we will not consider military action *under any circumstances*.

Many love the idea that Obama has vowed (at one time, in any case) to speak to Iran with no conditions whatsoever. What this would avail any in the civilized world is not clear, but there are those who seem to believe that there is a diplomatic "solution" for every world problem. The idea that Iran is not interested in real diplomacy with the West is not understood.

Here's a link to an article that gives some sense of this mindset. It is from last year, but increased evidence of Iran's involvement with terrorism in Iraq and increased nuclear ambitions in the interim don't seem to have changed the minds of many on the far left.

http://grassrootspeace.org/traprock_blog/2007/03/29/the-folly-of-war-with-iran/

Actually, the rhetoric in this article is much more measured than a lot of what you hear--that George Bush will launch an attack--perhaps a nuclear one--in the last days of his administration, regardless; that Bush will then declare himself dictator, that poor little Iran is not actually bellicose itself, but is just reacting to the harsh actions of the West in Iraq and Afghanistan; that a nuclear Iran is a good thing, because it will constrain the "imperialistic" West, especially the US and Israel; on and on.

A few on the left actually enjoy Achmadinijad's warlike rhetoric, feeling it is the third world "standing up" to the West. In the end, despite all evidence, they believe that political violence is the sole perogative of the West, and that any reaction, no matter how barbaric, or who it is aimed at--by a "third-world" country is either not to be taken seriously, or is regarded as somehow defensive.

This neatly dovetails with the Jihadist belief that virtually any act of violence can be considered "defense of Islam".

So, maybe we just "push a pawn", or sacrifice a knight, but we see checkmate in fifteen moves.
Posted by: GamblersChoice

Correct. This is only one move in a geopolitical and geoeconomic game that is infinitely more complex, and far deadlier, than chess. Although it's not obvious from the view of the board as seen through the tinted classes of the MSM just who's chess masters are better, their's or our's, I'll put my money on ours.

A few on the left actually enjoy Achmadinijad's warlike rhetoric, feeling it is the third world "standing up" to the West. from above


Yes, I know a few people like this too. They will only understand when they have about 2 seconds to kiss their butt goodbye. What ticks me off is that I won't have the time to complete the sentence "I told you so!!!"

Calling names someone who dares to speak out freely, Wellington? And you keep posting here that "the Russians do not understand freedom"?
And you, with your blindly conformist "government knows best" attitude toward unsavory characters such is the Pentagon's Hasham Islam who is running things there are supposed to be "a proud American"? Some model of freedom you are, and you are far from alone. No wonder Saudi Arabian officials have been publicly and laughingly calling the Americans "their white American slaves" for years now.

Ruslan Tokhchukov, EnragedSince1999.

Doesn't strict sharia *forbid* chess?

Correct. This is only one move in a geopolitical and geoeconomic game that is infinitely more complex, and far deadlier, than chess. Although it's not obvious from the view of the board as seen through the tinted classes of the MSM just who's chess masters are better, their's or our's, I'll put my money on ours.

Eastview

Your probably right on this. However, have you noticed how the Iranians have consistently out maneuvered the UN, the world press, Europe, etc. on the subject of their nuclear program? It is so apparent when they easily out maneuver everyone that it becomes disheartening after a while.

..."have you noticed how the Iranians have consistently out maneuvered the UN, the world press, Europe"...

Actually, that aspect concerns me more than failed missle launches or nuclear enrichment or emp bombs (sorry had to throw that in, place smiley face here).

..."who's chess masters are better, their's or our's,"...

While I also believe ours are better, I am keeping my eye on the game.
Later
Albert

GamblersChoice, Smiley face accepted. Check out this website article and let me know which chess master is responsible for this mess.

http://www.baltimorechronicle.com/2008/081208Leopold.shtml

GamblersChoice, Seriously, the best music to my ears would be hearing of news that Iran's nuclear facilities have been destroyed by either Israel or the USA.

Spot on:
The points about the weakness in the electric grid is maybe a little off topic here. But, to address the issue, let me start by saying that I live in Pennsylvania, and work for a construction company that does most of its work in electric plants and liquid natural gas plants. Most of our work now is retrofitting for environmental reasons. This produces no additional electricity, and adds to the cost of the power being produced today. The electric suppliers are forced to spend millions to meet the demands of the environmentalists. Also, mayor Rendell is pushing for 20% wind/solar in ten years, but he didn't figure in the environmental backlash against erecting turbines on hill tops, they look bad and make noise and kill birds. In addition, envirnmentalists oppose the building of transmission lines, they are blocking a much needed transmission line to route electricity from the mid west through this state to connect to the eastern coast. In California, a new solar plant, millions of dollars already invested in the construction of panels, blocked because the transmission lines run through state park lands. In Texas, T. Bone Pickens has, through a company his wife owns, worked a deal with the state to use emminent domain to purchase land to construct transmission lines from his multi million dollar wind farm through scrub land to the nearest city. They will probably have to fight that out in court once the locals learn that emminent domain is a government function, and not for private use, and that gives the environmentalists the leverage to fight it.
Isolated examples of a nation wide struggle. Twenty years of permitting to build a nuclear plant, permitting for carbon sequestion for clean coal plants, etc.
The environmentalists are killing this country, but they are so powerful, no one can fight them.
Later
Albert

Correction for the above. its governor rendell, states have governors, cities have mayors...duh
Later
Albert

I agree with you completely about the environmemtal lobby screwing up the works. But back on topic. We are a valuable target for the thug in chief in Iran. If they decide to go for the jugular of Israel, they will likely go for ours at the same time. They will do this to weaken our response in defense of Israel. How long it will take them to get ready, I surely don't know. But I think it is months not years away. As Eastview had said on a previous post (and I concurred), all Iran needs to do is explode a nuke at altitude over the ocean to take out most of our communication satellites. That would likely not kill us, but it would ruin our economy and keep us busy for an extended period. And of course Iran would claim that someone else like Russia or China, did it. Remember that Russia contemplated doing that many years ago.

I had an opportunity a long time ago to live in an area where it was not uncommon for people to threaten to kill you. As long as you were on their good side they were wonderful. Being on their bad side was not the thing to do. They were very clever people. These people were not Islamic but I see a lot of parallels with the Islamic people. And we are definitely not on the Islamic world's good side and will never be. Ahmadinejad has made so many threats to eliminate Israel that he will definitly move toward that goal. If for no other reason, to save face. There is nothing Israel or the USA can do to alter that goal except with military force. He has also publically stated that he will cripple the USA in the process. We have a decrepit electrical distribution system. It only needs a nudge to take down. It makes a perfect target. We need to take him at his word. Iran is not a rational player. This is my opinion and it is shared by many that know more about it than I.

If you remember the beginning of the gulf wars, both one and two, the first thing we did was take out their communications. On the ground, from the air. In order for Iran to do the same to us, they would have to locate, target, and succeed in hitting satellites they cannot track, with payloads they cannot aim, mounted on rockets they cannot get airborn. They could not "blame" any one for firing those rockets, as we are monitoring everything that moves in or out of that country. So, one simple aggressive move to attempt disruption of our communications would be answered with national devastation for them, communications, we know where every radar tracking station is located, probably already painted them, cell and land telephones, history, electrical grid, vaporised.
As far as the economic problems they wish to cause us, they thought that by hitting the twin towers they would cause severe damage to our economy. Don't think that worked too well for them, because, unless you ask a democrat, the economy is stronger now than it was in 2000. The slow jihad of weakening our dollar through manipulation of the oil market will do more damage than a poorly thought out attack.
And, please, don't think I am arguing your points, I agree with a lot of the things you are saying, and I believe we are not near as prepared as we should be for dealing with an irrational monkey-inadinnerjacket. But I have a different perspective, and I can never come from a defeatist, shamed american, we are guilty of all the world's problems leftist ideology. This is now and will always be the greatest country, and the most successful experiment in self governance this planet will ever know.
If not, it's all george bush's fault
Later
Albert

GamblersChoice, I didn't explain what I was saying. A nuke explosion at high altitude almost anywhere would creat a radiation belt all around the globe. This radiation belt would kill most of the satellites. This has been proven in theory and by test, a long time ago. You probably didn't catch this when Eastview mentioned this several days ago and I agreed. I briefly touched on this a month or so ago when we discussed this subject.

That is why I asked Eastview if the power grid was satellite dependent. He thought that it was connected to the internet and I have since verified that the grid uses the internet extensively for control. If we lose satellites, the internet is gone.

However, I do not believe such event would kill a lot of us. Yes, there would be power outages and loss of mass satellite communications, but ham radio, and other emergency channels would still work. Transportation would be OK. Since power companies could not sychronize their power networking, we would see them resort to local distribution. Some areas would have no power but people could transport themselves to areas that did have power. It would be rough but survivable. Our economy would tank to nothing of course, for a long time. The radiation belt created by the high altitude nuke would last several years. We would have to rough it until new satellites could be sent up. This whole thing is not good.

I will be happy when Iran loses their nuke capability.

GamblersChoice, Regarding America, maybe this type scenario would wake everybody up and we could continue on being the greatest country on the face of the earth. There is no question that we are the best country, ever. I only speak of these things with that in mind. We have serious perils to face, if we cannot control insane people with nukes.

maybe the best, and only answer to the problem is ...nuke them first.
Later
Albert

You got it.

The Internet is not completely dependent on satellites. Indeed, most of the interconnections are across land lines and undersea cables, and most of the DNS nodes are physically located in the U.S. Taking out some or even many individual elements of the network would not affect operations significantly since alternate routing is done automatically. Indeed, it was precisely this problem, of creating an auto-healing distributed communications capability that would be immune to destruction of discrete elements of the network, that the Internet was designed for. The satellite components of the network only involve parts for which the ~1 second transmission delay times inherent to satellite communications are not important.

The problem arises when the command and control parts of critical infrastructure (defense, manufacturing, financial, commercial) are constructed that that have woven into them Internet components without adequate consideration of what happens if the Internet goes down. Examples of what can happen are familiar and commonplace: the Stock Market going down and the distributed brokerage system not being able to service orders, your bank not being able to update your accounts or transfer money, or even your local supermarket not being able to scan your purchases because of tight integration of their inventory control and just-in-time ordering systems being dependent on the Internet. The list of examples goes on and on. Imagine all of this happening at the same time, with no prospect of any repair within the foreseeable future, and you begin to see the picture. You can't even call up your local ISP to complain, because the functions of the phone system have been moved over to the network - which also means no 911, no calls to fire or police, no anything. And if your local power company has been so foolish as to let one of its programming kids persuade them integrate their control system into the network, say good bye to power and lights, too.

The non-satellite portions of the network would not necessarily have to be affected by loss of satellite communications, but this will only happen if the communications infrastructure has been built in such a way that the ground and satellite parts of the system are maintained as functionally separate systems that do not involve mutually dependencies in any way that cannot be routed around.

As Spot on has outlined above, loss of major portions of the global satellite network, say by means of a nuclear burst high above the atmosphere, would not kill anyone directly.
However, it would devastate major parts of what has become part of the central nervous system of the global economic and military infrastructure. The effects would last for many years.

And, of course, you could say good bye to Jihad Watch, YouTube, email, and everything else that involves the Internet, because there would be no Internet for perhaps quite a long time.

BTW, for GamblersChoice, none of this has anything to do with patriotism or lack of it. It's simply an engineering problem arising out of a poorly thought-out design (or, if you want to be charitable, a product of the Law of Unintended Consequecnes) that, until it gets fixed, exposes modern civilization to crippling devastation by unruly children in our midst. But it will take time, and in the meantime we are vulnerable to actions of rogue states that could take advantage of the vulnerability. This is one of the important, but largely unrecognized, reasons the U.S. so strenuously opposes Iranian development of nuclear weapons, not Dinner Jacket's blatherings about the destruction of Israel.

Eastview, The clearer the picture gets the worse it gets. Thanks for elaborating. I would presume that the phone companies would make as many land line interconnectons as possible and there would be a trickle of phone/internet communications. I'm sure this would be high priority stuff.

If the public only knew what you and I know, then Iran would have been history by now. You clearly illustrate the reason that I hold politicians in such disdain. Just think, there are many competant people in government and industry who understand all this and the arrogant politicians either will not listen to them or don't want to listen to them on this subject.

The only thing I could add to this, as I have said before, if some how Iran could place that nuke in the center of our country, or two nukes, one at each end of our country all at high altitude, the situation would not be just be a disaster but the EMP effect would be and unmitigated disaster, extremely deadly, to the majority of the citizens of the USA.

Europe also would have similiar problems, I presume, due to the high altitude radiation effects.

And may I repeat, the USA is the greatest nation ever. In an a nutshell what you have read from Eastview and myself is the scientific view. As great as the USA is, this is the USA's "achilles heel", a descriptive word for this used by Frank Gaffney, an authority on this and other homeland security.

Spot on, you're right, detonations physically above the U.S. would be a double whammy, with both the immediate EMP effects and the longer term radiation belt effects that would hamper any recovery efforts.

These are all workable engineering problems, but first they have to be recognized as problems and the level of threat they represent needs to be realistically assessed. The EMP threat has been known for a long time, recognition of radiation belt effects is more recent. But both fall in a much larger class of problems that have been created by our relentless drive toward creating a civilization built on complex and fragile technology.

Getting back on topic, I have no idea if the Iranians are sophisticated enough to realize that you don't have to physically wrap your hands around someone's throat to kill him; introducing arsenic into his water supply will work just as well if you're willing to wait a bit. However I suspect they are a little more sophisticated than we would like to give them credit for, so their new WMDs would be used to threaten their neighbors, or would be given to ideologically like minded fanatics like Hugo Chavez. Think of the nightmare that would produce.

Better that they neither have nukes nor even the capability to produce them. I'd like to think our guys think this way, too, and are prepared to ensure they never do.

Eastview, You have made the picture much clearer.

My gut feel concerning Iran is the same as with other partially insane enemies. We must not underestimate them.

And this reminds me of the story of the car driver who was changing a tire next to the mental institution. His lug nuts rolled into the sewer drain and he didn't know what to do. A mental patient approached him from the other side of the fence and suggested that he take one lug nut from each of the other wheels and that would get him to the nearest service facility. The car driver asked the mental patient, "If you are that smart, what are you doing in there". The patient responded "I am not in here because I am stupid, I'm here because I am insane".

I believe Ahmadinejab and company may be slow to catch on, but I believe that A.Q. Kahn, Russia, China, and others have been sharing knowlege for some time with Ahmadinejad and company.

Spot on, LOL. Very good. It reminds me of the difference between ignorance and stupidity. The first is curable, the second incurable. Ahmadinejad is most certainly an ignorant man, in the sense that he is a prisoner of his religion and culture and has never deigned to seek anything outside the limited and constricted perspective this gives him. In this way he is no different that an uneducated person anywhere. He is not stupid, and neither are his Imam masters, but they are dangerous. Allowing them to have access to nuclear weapons should not even be an option. The only thing that needs to be seriousy discussed are the ways and means of preventing this.