While this is certainly refreshing, it still begs the question: who knows what Islam demands more accurately: the average Muslim, who may denounce such fatwas, or "top" clerics, who have been studying Islam all their lives? Muslims can denounce this or that, the question still remains: is it Islamic or not?
"Arabs denounce cleric's fatwa on 'immoral,' TV" by Donna Abu-Nasr for AP, September 19 (thanks to JCB):
Arabs across the ideological spectrum, from secular-minded liberals to Muslim hard-liners, are denouncing a top Saudi cleric's edict that it was permissible to kill the owners of satellite TV stations that show "immoral" content.Note, another cleric: obviously, then, al-Lihedan is not alone in these views.Many expressed worry the recent comments by Sheik Saleh al-Lihedan — chief of the kingdom's highest tribunal, the Supreme Judiciary Council — would fuel terrorism, encouraging attacks on station employees and owners.
[...]
"Our religion prevents Muslims from watching films that provide seduction, obscenity and vulgarity," said Sheik Hazim Awad, an Iraqi cleric, who, like al-Lihedan, is Sunni Muslim.
But "the real Muslim can just cancel (subscriptions to) these channels," he said.
Many conservatives frown on the Arab world's numerous satellite networks for airing music videos — often with scantily clad women singers — or Western movies and TV shows like "Sex and the City," from which nude scenes are sometimes but not always cut.
Obscenity isn't the only thing that disturbs some. On Tuesday, another Saudi cleric, Sheik Mohammed Munajjid, said the cartoon character Mickey Mouse should be killed. Munajjid said in an interview with a religious Web site that under Islamic law, rats and mice are considered "repulsive" and as "soldiers of Satan."
"For children they've become something great and beloved. Like this Mickey Mouse, who is seen as a great figure, even though under Islamic law, Mickey Mouse should be killed," said Munajjid, who is a well-known cleric but does not hold a government position.By now, the world should know that "Wahhabi interpretation" simply means literally following the practice (sunna) of Muhammad and the first few generations of Muslims close to him and the righteous caliphs -- which is why the Saudis never call it "Wahhabi" but rather Islam.The controversy over al-Lihedan's fatwa began a week ago, when the cleric was answering questions from callers to the daily "Light in the Path" religious program on Saudi state radio. One caller asked about Islam's view of the owners of satellite TV channels that show "bad programs" during the holy month of Ramadan, which began more than two weeks ago.
"I want to advise the owners of these channels, who broadcast calls for such indecency and impudence ... and I warn them of the consequences," al-Lihedan said in the program. "Those calling for corrupt beliefs, certainly it's permissible to kill them."
The remarks were especially surprising because many of the most popular Arab satellite networks are owned by Saudi princes and well-connected Saudi and Gulf businessmen.
[...]
He said his "advice" was aimed at owners who broadcast witchcraft, indecent programs, shows mocking Islamic scholars or religious police and comedies inappropriate for Ramadan.
The edict chilled managers of satellite networks. Several channels based in Dubai declined comment. One network representative said the staff was taking the fatwa very seriously, but he did not want his name or channel revealed. "Why select yourself as a target by commenting on it?" he said.
Saudi Arabia's judiciary is a bastion of hard-line clerics implementing Islamic law under the strict Wahhabi interpretation. Judges are appointed by the king on the recommendation of the Supreme Judicial Council and have complete discretion to set sentences, except in cases where Islamic law outlines a punishment, such as capital crimes.
King Abdullah has said reforming the legal system is one of his priorities, but so far few changes have been announced — a sign of wariness in confronting the powerful clerics.Yes, a few days after the Saudi king was reaching out to non-Muslims for dialogue, it was revealed that Saudi textbooks for children still teach that the true Muslim must hate all non-Muslims.
One Saudi cleric challenged al-Lihedan, telling the Saudi Al-Jazirah newspaper that the new edict would "lend support to terrorism."[...]
Around the Arab world, many said el-Lihedan was out of line.
"He shouldn't give such a judgment because he's not God," said Noora Baker, a 27-year-old folkloric dancer from the Palestinian city of Ramallah. "I am against religion interfering with the matters of society."
That may be, but the fact remains: "commanding the good and forbidding the wrong" -- that is, very much "interfering with the matters of society" -- is a central tenet of Islam.
OT:
"Schoolboy" Mohammedan Terrorist jailed in UK:
http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20080919/wl_nm/britain_munshi_dc
Check this out from the Judge concerning my link above:
"Judge Timothy Pontius said Munshi, the grandson of Islamic scholar Sheikh Yakub Munshi, president of the Islamic Research Institute of Great Britain at the Markazi Mosque in Dewsbury, had brought shame to his family and religion."
LOL! "brought shame to his family and religion." Judge Pontius - you know NOTHING about Islam.
Its Ramadamadamdam.
Perhaps its the starving during the day and the gorging during the night that drives them around the bend.
On the other hand, here's a guy who is always off the rails:
http://sheikyermami.com/2008/09/19/yusuf-rubs-it-3/
Great cartoon by WoJ cartoonist Shem!
their commenting against the fatwa cause it concerns their world. let the same clerics issue a fatwa against OUR owners of TV stations you wouldn't no dissenting voices like these here.
"Noora Baker, a 27-year-old folkloric dancer from the Palestinian city of Ramallah."
-- from the article above
Yes, a "folkloric dancer" -- the invention, or what Rashid Khalidi and his beininian collaborators woulc call the "construction" -- of "Palestinian identity" has included, of course, the creation of a phony "Palestinian folk culture" that is all of a few decades old, in which Arab songs and Arab dances are simply tarted up as "Palestinian." Noora Baker, "folkloric dancer," is doing her part - no doubt she is paid to do this -- in "constructing" that "Palestinian" identity which, after all, is simply one propaganidstic element in the local Jihad, that against Israel, which is prompted by Islam, the same Islam whose teachings prompt the fatwa against "immoral television." She, Noora Baker, defends television, because she likes it. But she will also defend to the death (of others, of course) the right to conduct the "struggle" or Jihad against Israel -- of which that "Palestinian folklore" is propagandistically part -- which comes out of the same attitudes and atmospherics, the same tenets and ultimately the same texts, as does the imam's fatwa against television.
This, for the connoisseur of illogic and unrecognized inconsistency -- based on a failure to connect the dots of attitudes and behavior back to the texts and teachings of Islam -- may provide food -- in this case an amuse-bouche -- for thought.
"Those calling for corrupt beliefs, certainly it's permissible to kill them."
If there will be reformation in Islam, which I don't think is very likely, first imperative must be like in all other religions and cultures:
A man has no right to kill another person. Period.
No exceptions.
You can "denounce" clerics all you want, it does not chance the literalism that is inherent in Islam.
To truly clean a river you must journey to the source.
Doesn't this speak to the violent Islamic mindset? Other people who are concerned about television content install the V-chip, turn off the television or simply stop watching television all together.It's a personal choice made by informed individuals. The Islamic reaction does not involve individual responsibility, reasoning or logic. Just, when in doubt "kill".
Turn off the television in Islamic countries. Let them hear nothing but their call to prayer. Obviously they are incapable of even hearing beliefs that don't accord with theirs. We can't risk their minds being corrupted with ideas that aren't of Islam. Even the news gets them riled. Turn off al-Jazeera. Best to keep them in their cribs. The world is the one Mohammed walked in and killed in. That's the way they like it. Let them live in their own fantasyland. They cannot cope with the real world.
I was going to ask 'what is a Palestinian folkloric dancer', but Hugh answered that just fine.
I bet a Palestinian folk dance would look a lot like a Bavarian Polka...Anda one anda two...
Noora should watch re-runs of the Lawrence Welk show, for inspiration...Anda one, anda two...Bubble music for the Palestinian dancers...
"Noora should watch re-runs of the Lawrence Welk show"
The Lawrence Welk show would be way too immoral for good Muslims, what with all the men and women singing and dancing together, and women showing their bare shins and sometimes even collarbones.
Yep, bare shins and collarbones - Haram!
More Muslim hypocrisy.
Most Islamic males surreptitiously drink alcohol and like to watch porn.
To have not denounced the fatwa would have been like (halal) Turkeys voting for Christmas.
Oh, what a tangled web men weave. Worry, worry over what might goed into the mind of man. Without considering what is in the heart of man. As someone who knows once said;
Mat 15:16-20
Are you still so dull? Jesus asked them. Don't you see that whatever enters the mouth goes into the stomach and then out of the body? But the things that come out of the mouth come from the heart, and these make a man ‘unclean.’ For out of the heart come evil thoughts, murder, adultery, sexual immorality, theft, false testimony, slander.
These are what make a man ‘unclean’. . .
حصير 15:16-20
هل انت لا تزال حتى البليد؟ يسوع طلب منهم. ألا ترى ان كل ما يدخل الفم يذهب الى معدته وبعد ذلك للخروج من الهيءه؟ ولكن الاشياء التي تخرج من الفم تأتي من القلب ، وهذه تجعل رجل 'غير نظيفة.' للخروج من القلب تأتي الأفكار الشريره ، القتل ، والزنا ، والفجور الجنسي ، والسرقه ، وشهادة الزور ، والقذف.
وهذه هي التي تجعل الرجل 'غير نظيفة". . .
shows mocking Islamic scholars or religious police and comedies inappropriate for Ramadan.
i belive one of marks of a cult is inability to take mocking
http://www.freeminds.org/psych/lifton.htm
Cults are able to control the environment around their recruits in a number of ways, but almost always using a form of isolation. Recruits can be physically separated from society, or they can be warned under threat of punishment to stay away from the world's educational media, especially when it might provoke critical thinking. Any books, movies or testimonies of ex-members of the group, or even anyone critical of the group in any way are to be avoided.
Information is carefully kept on each recruit by the mother organization.
(getting non arab speakers to memorize the quran in arabic)
All are watched, lest they fall behind or get too far ahead of the thinking of the organization. Because it appears that the organization knows so much about everything and everyone
doesn't that sound like your average inman and mosque?
""Our religion prevents Muslims from watching films that provide seduction, obscenity and vulgarity," said Sheik Hazim Awad, an Iraqi cleric, who, like al-Lihedan, is Sunni Muslim."
Hey Sheik!, your religion has failed...Muslim men love these "bodacious, outragious, corrupt, sinful, obscene, vulgar, or otherwise unIslamic " films...What are you going to do about it?...have the religious police spy on every house and then start executing those caught watching the films...you have already tried that and the religious police got either hook on the films themselves or they just enjoyed beating the crap out of their own people...
Come on now Sheik!, tell us how your religion prevents Muslim men from watching such films.....
Islams solution to such films usually involves killing the filmaker...
The nice thing about Islam is that you can ignore its violence when it suits you - like it obviously does when your stinking rich from oil wealth - and you can pick uo where you left off if you have a gurdge against anyone or anything.
That's why even countries like Turkey are dangerous - they're just timebombs waiting to be set off as soon as someone they don't "offends" them.
Enjoy your Islam...
But "the real Muslim can just cancel (subscriptions to) these channels
"I am against religion interfering with the matters of society."
Really? Doesn't that run exactly contrary to how Muslim societies work, how Islam itself works? If either of these statements were true, then Muslims would allowed to think and speak freely, to criticize Islam or their rulers, to vote democratically, to wear whatever they want, to eat whatever and whenever they want, to use a toilet facing in whatever direction they want, to wash however they want, to have sex with whomever they want whenever they want however they want, to use birth control, to pray whenever they want or to not pray, to leave Islam, to take whatever job they want, to be whatever religion they choose, to interpret Islam however they want, to watch/listen to/read/contribute to any media they choose, to associate freely with the other sex, to learn real science, to be porn stars, for women to travel whenever they want, to beat their men back, to marry whomever they want, to not get raped or pimped away by their own families, to not be genitally mutilated, etc., etc., etc.?
Islamisnotforme is right that 'milieu control' is a characteristic of cults, and none take it nearly as far as Islam, what with the Islamic clothing, burqa, media control, totalitarian government requirement, gender apartheid, female genital mutilation, and the fact that women have no control of their lives and that Muslims are only to be in non-Muslim/Sharia lands for the purpose of jihad. Islam basically comes down to the top-down control of the environment surrounding Muslims and radiating outward colonially.