At Pajamas Media today the superb Bruce Bawer asks the question, "Who’s Sleeping More Deeply — Europe or America?":
[...] Make no mistake: if Europeans are, on average, more aware than Americans of the realities of Islam, it’s no thanks to their media but rather because they can see with their own eyes what’s going on around them. Yet many of them feel cowed — not only by Muslims but by politically correct politicians and media — into keeping their opinions to themselves, and feel powerless to prevent what now seems to many of them, in any event, inevitable. In other words, fatalism has taken hold.In While Europe Slept I also contrasted European and American approaches to immigration. Ever since the Muslim influx began some decades ago, European countries have encouraged the newcomers to retain their cultural identity, to live apart from mainstream society, and to become clients of the welfare state. America, by contrast, has traditionally expected immigrants to learn English, to get a job, and to obey the law, and if they do so they’re every bit as American as anyone else. I didn’t argue in While Europe Slept that America was invulnerable to Islamization, but I did suggest that — thanks to this very dramatic difference both in the general public’s attitudes toward immigrants and in government immigration policy — America stood a far better chance than Europe did of seeing Muslim newcomers turn into loyal citizens rather than enemies within. I think I had a valid point there, though if I were writing the book today I’d probably be somewhat less sanguine about America’s ability to integrate absolutely everyone into its melting pot. I might also be less sanguine, I’m afraid, about the endurance of Americans’ love of freedom in an age of poisonous multicultural relativism.
I do feel, however, that there’s one very important difference between America and Europe when it comes to resisting cultural jihad, and that is this: that in America, a large proportion of the people who recognize the threat of Islam and who are determined to resist it are consciously fighting for freedom — for, that is, the principles articulated in the Declaration of Independence, Constitution, and Bill of Rights. In many parts of Western Europe, this kind of certainty and unanimity about freedom — simple freedom — as a first principle can be discouragingly hard to come by. The blogger Frank Martin has written about a teenage tour guide at a World War II battlefield in the Netherlands who told him that the Allied soldiers who fell there had been “fighting for bridges, how silly that they would all fight for something like that.” Somebody like that boy, who didn’t grasp that those soldiers had died for the very freedom that he had taken for granted his whole life, is incapable of standing up for freedom against Islamofascism. Yes, there are Europeans who realize that the opposite of Islam is indeed human freedom. But in Europe, with its checkered history of fascism and socialism, there are also all too many people on the right who are mounting the barricades in the name not of freedom but of ethnic identity, cultural tradition, or religion, and all too many on the left whose cri de coeur is not individual liberty but the welfare state.
Meanwhile Europe’s cultural elites are dominated by people who seem likely to continue to smile upon Islamization right up till the moment they’re stoned to death. At a recent Norwegian conference on integration, the Swedish government representative was asked: “Is Swedish culture worth preserving?” “Well,” she replied dismissively, “what is Swedish culture?” To people like that, European culture is a void waiting to be filled with something, and that something might as well be Islam. Granted, things aren’t quite that bad in the U.S. — not even at the New York Times. Yet to an extraordinary extent, the political and cultural elites on both sides of the Atlantic are in sync in their denial of the reality we’re up against.
This was driven home to me a few months ago when I took part in a day-long conference in Washington, D.C., about the America/Europe relationship. Nearly all the participants and audience members, I gathered, were Americans or Europeans who worked in the diplomatic corps. The day was crammed with panel discussions, and from early morning until late in the afternoon we talked about nothing but America and Europe. Yet aside from me, only one other person even mentioned Islam. And he did so in the most indirect way, as if he were bringing up something indelicate. Everybody present seemed to share an unspoken understanding that this subject was off limits. Indeed, pretty much everybody seemed to agree that Europe is doing great — that it’s moving from strength to strength — and that America should be more like it in every way.
How I even got invited to such a conference I have no idea. In any case, everything I said was dismissed out of hand. One genial fellow who seemed desperate to correct my folly and bring me into the tent came up to me after my talk and said, almost pleadingly, “But don’t you think that the real problem is not Islam but Islamophobia?” And on the panel that followed my talk, a retired diplomat with decades of experience (and a masterly command of the art of condescension) mentioned in a tone of both wonder and whimsy that I wasn’t alone in my peculiar affliction; even Walter Laqueur — the distinguished octogenarian historian of Europe whom the retired diplomat, as his tone made clear, had once, but no longer, held in high esteem — had written a book making the same bizarre arguments I was making! But neither this retired diplomat nor anyone else was willing to entertain the possibility that if both Laqueur and I, and many others, had made certain arguments, there might actually be something in them; no, it was as if, in their eyes, we had all simply been bitten by some exotic bug or contracted some mysterious new infection or had giant alien pods placed under our beds while we were sleeping....
Read it all.
Michelle Malkin did her best to depict the cartoons on Fox by pasting the images onto a piece of poster board and displaying it while she was on air.
“But don’t you think that the real problem is not Islam but Islamophobia?”
If all infidels were Islamophobes, there would be no problem at all.
"it was as if, in their eyes, we had all simply been bitten by some exotic bug or contracted some mysterious new infection or had giant alien pods placed under our beds while we were sleeping...."
Funny. That's how I view those fat-headed diplomats.
We in The Resistance not only have to face the Islamic killer zombies among us, but the Kafir pod people as well.
It begins with the teaching of history.
We all know about the Jewish holocaust. That event was covered quite extensively in US primary and secondary school curricula.
Consequently, it is acceptable to speak frankly about Nazi ideology.
If the Armenian Genocide was given serious attention, it would have been obvious that Islamic ideology fueled the unbelievable savagery displayed during the Hamid massacres and the completion of the Genocide in 1915.
Common knowledge of the Armenian Genocide would make it easier to speak truthfully about Islamic ideology.
"Keep them out" is a much better strategy than "fight them over there".
Or do both.
We in Europe, myself in the UK, have a big problem as you all know. It seems that although Islam is still a minority, although they are without a doubt our biggest threat, our current enemy are the pig ignorant Left Wing, who are actively encouraging the growth of Islam in the UK. The Government(left wing) is obstructing all action against Islam, allowing radical Imams to preach in Mosques and community centres. They have the Police arrest documentary makers who, with undercover reporters dig up the truth of Islam in the UK. And yet what happens to those whom they make public, preaching hatred?
There will be civil war in the UK - The Right, VS the Left, Islam, the Government and of course their henchmen the Police. I don't know where the Armed Forces will stand.
The sad reality is, that unless the people openly speak out and condemn Islam, facing persecution, then Islamisation will simply continue down its route.
“But don’t you think that the real problem is not Islam but Islamophobia?”
Headline of article.
No, the real problem IS Islam. What you label Islamophobia is just the cries of its victims.
Mark: The British Labour Government has actively sided with Muslims against the natives. That should be pretty obvious by now. Of course, so has the EU against everybody else. And yes, there will be a civil war in Britain, most likely also in Denmark. France and Holland are possible, Italy and Spain I don't know.
What can you expect out of people indoctrinated at our finest western universities in the teachings of multiculturalism and post-modernism. Those twin poisons that strips those who inbibe it of any ability to make qualitative distinctions such as the difference between a culture that allows such a meeting as theirs to take place and one that would kill the participants on general principals.
I also bet that those genteel creatures Bawr describes are like those elites here in the U.S. They only deal circulate among their own kind creating a kind of self-referential loop that only reinforces the kind of collective insanity that passes for thinking with this lot.
Its ironic though, that Islam found its greatest supporters or enablers not with the unwashed but with the impeccably educated elite of the west.
Wars and rumors of wars...and almost all of them have to do with Islam.
The Religion of Peace wages War...
From article: it was as if, in their eyes, we had all simply been bitten by some exotic bug or contracted some mysterious new infection or had giant alien pods placed under our beds while we were sleeping....
Or maybe we just read the Quran and Hadiths, listen to what muslims say, and see what they do.
These people are fools, except for the alien pod part. I did find one of those under my bed once...but that's another story...
Fjordman,
Any action in Europe will of course be against the governments, so this is why I've spoken of WW3 as all of Europe will be at War again. This war against Islam will of course have repercussions in all countries where Muslims reside for they will look at the attack on Islam as an attack on themselves and of course they will then attack the Christians in their countries, stating it's another Crusade. It will spread to India, Pakistan, Bangladesh, the Middle and Far East, Russia, China and of course Africa.
The British government of course is not on the side of the people but with Islam and the minorities as you say. They will of course impose martial law and flee to America, who will take them in. Depending when this happens and who's in power in America, that may even end in Americans sending troops to support the fleeing government officials to protect Islam. You just don't know, what the state of government will be in America, especially if Obama wins.
As regard to Italy and Spain, well, we know that Spain has already driven out the Muslim hordes in the past and as for any country in Europe actively standing up to mass immigration, Italy has its troops on the streets kicking out Romany gypsies and Hungarian immigrants. I think if it kicks off with Islam, the chances of it being in Italy, under Berlusconi are good odds. After all, he's already compared Ahmedinejad to Hitler.
Do not underestimate the quiet undercurrent resistance. We are developing the rhetorical means, and in consequence the legal means right now.
I have been following the issue since the outbreak of the cartoon row.
We are on track. Keep going.
The author says Americans who are anti-jihad are fighting for freedom but many in Europe are fighting for their ethnic identity and cultural traditions. (I'm paraphrasing, please correct me if this summary of two very long sentences is wrong.)
Freedom, ethnic identity, cultural tradition, religion - one and all are threatened by Islam.
Why DON'T Europeans have every right to fight for their own traditions? Islam would undo all of that and replace it with the Muslim identity, which is Arab, the Muslim cultural traditions and, of course, the Muslim religion. Why isn't European resistance also a fight for FREEDOM? Freedom should include an ability for the individual to reject Islam every bit as much as he rejects Christianity or Judaism.
Americans' own identity as a people and America's cultural traditions and even our freedom of religion - and from it - are all bound up in the principles of the Declaration of Independence, the Constitution and the Bill of Rights.
The author suggests that Europeans are fighting the right war for the wrong reasons but why?
Americans who resist Islam want to see freedom continue in a way that it cannot under Islamic rule. That legacy of freedom is our identity and our culture. What makes our fight any more noble than Europe's?
What makes the European tradition less deserving of preservation? Europe is a continent of distinct ethnic identities, cultural traditions and many languages, while the US is more of a blending. Europe may have had bouts of fascism and dictatorship but how does that make its rich cultural history not worthy of preservation? Why SHOULDN'T it be fought for? Why should anyone apologize for defending it?
It's a distinction without a difference.
Mark,
So why do people still vote for the Left?
The Tories might be bad but are they THAT bad?
Mark: Of the larger countries in Western Europe, I would rate Italy as being the healthiest one. The Italians still have some pride in their culture and won't just lie down. I'm disappointed with the Spanish. Maybe they suffer from a post-Imperial Stress Syndrome, just like the British and the French. The Germans could be important in the long run, but their history prevents them from taking decisive action first. Of the smaller countries, watch out for Denmark. They will fight back.
I'm pretty sure the British will fight back, too. It's not in their character to lie down and die. But as you indicate, it will be a messy thing, with confusing alliances. The European Union will break up. It will be remembered as the "peace project" which plunged much of Europe into war. Again.
Meanwhile Europe’s cultural elites are dominated by people who seem likely to continue to smile upon Islamization right up till the moment they’re stoned to death - above
They will either a)be the first to convert, or b) get big fat jobs as dhimmi-enforcers of "their" communities - collecting the jizya, quelling uprisings, enforcing sharia law at the behest of their overlords, etc. etc.
So does so much of Europe feel checkmated by the aggressive crush of the Islamic Ideology that is rightly defined as 80 Percent political with it sharia law?
The demographics of the 27 EU countries or member states show a population of 495 million people. Within that population chart exists an estimated 54 million Muslim population, or about 9.1 Percent, and yet the intimidation pucker factor appears to be in full force by dhimmis' who govern these countries even though Islam is less then 10 to I. Almost all this intimidation factor comes from the threatening behavior against non-Muslims that rears its ugly head daily over the slightest provocation against Mohammed IE. cartoons, teddy bears, pork, hospital beds facing towards Mecca, getting rid of piggy banks, foot washes at airports, you fill in the blanks.
As Bruce Bawer clearly puts it; those of us who have taken the time to understand what the aspirations of Islam are all about in America will be on the frontlines of defending this ever increasing invasion of this aggressive ideology.
We will need to be the vigilant ones who recognize this intrusion into our great institutions of freedom. We need to be the ones who can define our enemy as well ourselves. We must not allow the Trojan Horse that is their dar-el-harb to plant its feet on our countries soil at all costs.
I'm proud to wear the banner of an Islamophobe!!
Fjordman,
I do hope you're correct, that the British wil fight back. Yet already a lot has happened in that country that I could have never imagined the land of Churchill would tolerate. Out and out discrimination against natives, Sharia courts, homeowners who defend themselves against criminals jailed, toleration of Islamic clerics spewing hate against the UK, special treatment of Muslims everywhere, soaring crime rates due to "Asian" gangs targeting both the young and old, soaring rape statistics of native English women by said gangs, a government more concerned about the human rights of terrorists and pirates, I can go on and on. I would have thought British Common Sense would have long since risen up against this nonsense.
Hopefully the British will vote out these Labour bums and reclaim their country. But I hear the Torys are just as spineless as Labour these days, so is there any hope they will wise up before it's too late?
Go to the source and read the entire article folks. Witness the response of the Swedish minister when questioned about the possibilities of the disappearance of Swedish culture. The answer says it all in a nutshell.
Europe is a goner.
Cornelius: Don't use Sweden as an example. It's arguably even worse than Britain, and probably the most suicidally politically correct country in the Western world.
If any of the smaller European countries fight back as hard as Denmark, won't that effectively mark the end of the EU, returning Europe to Common Market days?
Fjordman,
Your point is well-taken. Sweden is definitely on the fast-track to Islam compared to the rest of the Continent. We've all read the horror stories from Malmo. But let's face it, Britain, Spain, France, Germany, Belgium, and Holland are not far behind.
I admire your work and applaud your tireless efforts, but the writing is on the wall; Europe's elite has decided the fate of the Continent, and the common people appear helpless in combating it. Unless something very dramatic changes at the ninth hour, which is very unlikely, then I reiterate - Europe is a goner.
>>
a large proportion of the people who recognize the threat of Islam and who are determined to resist it are consciously fighting for freedom — for, that is, the principles articulated in the Declaration of Independence, Constitution, and Bill of Rights.
>>>
BIG TIME!! Like Janis Joplin, said,,
"Freedom is just another word for NOTHING LEFT TO LOOSE!!"
cos without having freedom, to even your soul,, it just ain't worth livin' as a slave.
>>>>>>>
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
If the Armenian Genocide was given serious attention, it would have been obvious that Islamic ideology fueled the unbelievable savagery displayed during the Hamid massacres and the completion of the Genocide in 1915.
Common knowledge of the Armenian Genocide would make it easier to speak truthfully about Islamic ideology.
"Keep them out" is a much better strategy than "fight them over there".
Or do both.
Posted by: Charlie
>>
This is a excellent point Charlie,, this is one of the historical documents,, I have in my tool kit.
I get that weird look too, when I try to warn people about what is really happening. They see all the violence, committed in the name of islam, but they just cannot get their head around the FACT that islam,, is NOT the religion of peace. Even when I tell them,, 270 million infidels have been destroyed,, whole cultures, nada,, they don't get it.
So,, I either print out the American Thinker piece "Congress should declare Genocide for Armenian Massacre", (yayy, Canada DID!!!),
or send them to the site. I have other's too,
from different authors, some with heartbreaking pictures,, to prove,, it really happened.
Every single one of these "doubters",, comes back asking for more. Then of course, I send 'em here and to TROP and Frontpage.
I just keep yelling WAKE UP INFIDELS,, alot,, LOL
Even have a team,, Team Infidel,, doin' just that,,
Sheik Yer'Mami!! I sent ya a add request,, you know where,, saw you have Stuck Mojo as your only friend,, LOL!!, they are my friends too!
solsticewitch13
"don't annoy the bikers,
it's a islam free zone"
hey pervooos,, in saudi barbaria
and dar al islam,,
us women here,,
can walk around topless,,,
legally
nanananana!!!
LMAO!!
"Of the larger countries in Western Europe, I would rate Italy as being the healthiest one."
-- from a posting above
Yes. And for very complicated reasons, some involving religion, some involving a refusal to be obedient to authority (Alberto Sordi and Toto, and all others who made people laugh and therefore to think, were, unbeknownst to themselves, weapons of self-defense against Islam), and some involving a school curriculum that instills pride in cultural achievements, many of which achievements, being in the fine arts, are visible and hard to deny. In England, per contra, the achievements are more often in the realm of literature, and law, and philosophy, and harder to see and therefore to appreciate, for all but a few fogies and fossils, dying out daily.
And the effect -- the triple-whammy -- of Oriana Fallaci, the convinced atheist, and Magdi Allam, the "defector" from Islam who converted to Catholicism, and Pope Benedict, a definite non-atheist and non-convert -- has been considerable.
Besides, the newspapers are still in the hands of people who are intelligent -- remember that Ugo Stille used to run the Corriere and Indro Montanelli ran one newpspaper, Il Giornale, and then contributed "La Stanza di Montanelli" to the Corriere -- and that too plays its part.
i never comment here. tho i do read, every day. for years. but today i've been drinking. so, against what would normally be my better judgment, i shall comment.
after reading the same crap over and over and getting angrier every time i read it i just want to say, hey waltc, AND anyone who holds similar opinions: go fuck yourself.
cuz i'm one of those elite academics (tho now, thankfully, a refugee from academiastan,) and i'm even supposed to be some kind of super-expert in post-modern art and theory.
and let me tell you buster brown, this proud american patriot shit kicking punk rock stoner slut PhD isn't taking any orders from any misogynistic superstitious atavistic primitives; not from the mo cult or the jesus cult or the scientology cult or the childish new age cultists. and i will fight to the death for my rights, especially the right to speak and criticize and make any kind of irreverent, disrespectful art i feel like making. it's like james brown once said, 'i'd rather die on my feet than live on my knees.'
and when folks parroting a bunch of bullshit they read on teh intardnets lump people like me in with the bought and paid for academic whores of the saud regime it makes me ornery. and makes me say things like, go fuck yourself. =P or at least say, perhaps consider that there may be people reading your words who are put off and alienated by them, who after reading such insults don't want to play for your team. and you should welcome any help you can get with the counter-jihad. dontcha think?
/back to lurking
louchette
Whoo Hoo! louchette! way to jump right the hell in with both feet >tips ha
louchette,
I first of all would like to thank your for your service in academia. I know it is as a truly honorable profession. I appreciate the position many in academia find themselves in trying to appease everyone, so as to not be offensive, while towing the line, as you teach from text books written in a perspective that it will be used in multicultural environments, etc. I am pretty sure Waltc is British, so anything he said would go double for what you deal with here in the states. Personally I have found my daughters texts on history to be very poor, and very anti-western in perspective. In these texts they have gone as far as labeling some westerners as “evil” nothing to quantify it, no context, just “evil”. I have taken corrective measures, but this really increases her work load to compliment the distorted perspectives she would otherwise get. Enough of this though, how do you feel about the article? How do you feel about the fact that there isn't full and free discourse going on at the moment in regards to this issue? Being an academic surely this must make you angrier than something Waltc said? I think what Walt is mad about, forgive me if I put words in your mouth Waltc, is the fact that there appears to be this sort of elitist attitude, about what should be discussed, how it is discussed, and on what terms. Some of us feel it is this suffocating effect that is thwarting efforts to defuse this problem. I understand your frustration, but it is time more people in your position do what they can to come off of the fence, without loosing your jobs of course.
louchette
That was a nice piece on Mo you posted. You clearly have cleared the fence, thanks.
http://louchette.livejournal.com/165981.html
If I had a long-lost American sister, I strongly suspect she would be you.
Especially after visiting your LJ and realising that our parents clearly shopped at the same Evil Stepparent store ...
WSW
“But don’t you think that the real problem is not Islam but Islamophobia?”
A phobia is an irrational fear of something. There is nothing irrational about being wary of a group who are known for beheading and car bombing.
If Islam did not exist and cause it's followers to commit atrocities, there would be no reason for non-Muslims to be wary of it's followers.
>>>
and let me tell you buster brown, this proud american patriot shit kicking punk rock stoner slut PhD isn't taking any orders from any misogynistic superstitious atavistic primitives; not from the mo cult or the jesus cult or the scientology cult or the childish new age cultists. and i will fight to the death for my rights, especially the right to speak and criticize and make any kind of irreverent, disrespectful art i feel like making. it's like james brown once said, 'i'd rather die on my feet than live on my knees.'
Posted by: louchette
>>>
LOL,,
LMAOOO!!!
I love the misogynistic superstitious atavistic primitives,,
WE have a new 4 letter acroynym,, kiddies!!
MSAP
yep,, sounds about right,, anybody who loves that sicko,, mad moo,, is a big FAT SAP!!!
And louchette,, love your site,, have bookmarked it!!! You say it so well!
solsticewitch13
proud witchy infidel
"freedom is just another word for nothing left to loose", Janis Joplin,,
Jihad this *good finger*, to the medieval morons!!
"i never comment here. tho i do read, every day. for years. but today i've been drinking. so, against what would normally be my better judgment, i shall comment."
Whoa-dear-nelly!! I'm not sure that even AA is ready for someone as p'od as you, LOL!
louchette: Please tell me that you are really Jane from the Jim Carroll e-mail group.
The problem is ISLAM and all that it does and states in the name of the little allah and his perverted side kick, mohammed. The right to keep and bear arms will become increasingly important as islamofacism, stealth jihad and the politically correct continue to bend over to islam.Perversion goes butt to butt with islam. I appreciate Louchette and his post.If obumma wins the election, the assults on our rights and freedoms will take off like we have never experienced in this country. You Bush blaming babies acn f--k off. Open your eyes, quit drinking the sociaist left wing koolaid or it will be too late, and no one will want to save your butts. You can spout your pc, multicultural
garbage till they come for you and say convert to islam, or die? And they will. Look to Europistan, Britainistan for what is coming.You can laugh, call me names, paranoid whatever you want. I stand, locked and loaded, watching, resisting, not being silent and ready to die for my freedom and yours. islam is not the future for our children, or any of us unless we allow to be so. I can think of NOTHING more disgusting than a future run by islam and sharia law.
Champ
You must go to her site and read her Mo description, and see what she will do with that. I have to say I am rarely shocked, but this woman can really sling an insult like nobodies business. I think Mecca may have actually been physically rocked by just reading it. To tell you the truth I read it at work, and saw she was getting drunk, after that I just kept thinking how great it would be to hang out with her and just listen to her go off. The only other woman I know who can cuss like that is my mother! She sounds like a great lady I wish she would post here more.
Hi, ethoman -
Well, I did take a peek at her site earlier on, but I found the volume to be a little overwhelming - and quite frankly - it completely eclipsed her overall message, so I ran for the exit in fear of my life!
Anyway, I find that much swearing to be very ineffective at conveying whatever point the swearer is trying to make; so it's safe to say, that her style of writing did not reach me, but rather, I found it repelling.
Champ,
I had my speakers turned down, so I didn't hear. I think maybe I have been sort of desensitized since a very young age to such language, because reading that made me think of missing the bus and having to have my mom drive me to school in the morning. It is sick I guess, but I get it, and probably would have gotten it since I was about 11 or 12 years old. Anyways don't talk to the Madre much anymore way too exhausting. I guess being around crazy woman is an aquired taste :-)
Loved Louchette's Mo-micide! (or attempted Mo-micide; if *only* he and his baleful death cult *could* be killed....).
Anyway, kind of still on topic: a small victory for free speech in Europe, the printing of "The Jewel of Medina", in the UK, when the US publisher (Random House, booh, sucks!), pulled out.
The best way for us to support this would be for us all to order a copy post haste!
http://www.iht.com/articles/2008/09/29/europe/29jewel.php?pass=true
The Muslims will one day start a civil war in Europe. The question becomes which country they will start first? Netherland? Denmark? or UK?
God forbids, if they ever start a civil war in Europe they will do it when they are confident of the outcome as they have been preparing and training for years while the Europeans were asleep.
Meeker
Will do, and thanks for the update, you know I hear it is a beautiful love story.
American
If you think the Euros are out just yet watch this. I can only assume Seppo was threatened by some Muslim with a 9mm over youtube. This is his response. Not sure about the "Nazi" salute at the end, but otherwise yeah nice vid huh?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QBdyhR5vfFA
Maybe I am crazy for wanting to drink beer with Seppo too? Anyways I wouldn't cant Europe out just yet. Think of what is happening in a historical context. Can you think of anything more idiotic than running around Europe shouting over bullhorns that you are going to take over, as a minority group? Well we'll just have to see about that, I don't think so. This is just my humble opinion.
ethoman,
Good video. Thank you! Europe needs ten thousands guys like Seppo to prevent Europe's submission to terrorists.
Others have made this point but I'll make it as well:
What did you expect from a bunch of politically correct minions anxious to toe the party line, who don't have Islam in their faces like the "plebs" do in the inner cities? They should have invited me. I would have told them what I thought of Islam in no uncertain terms.
If we leave the Islam debate (or absence of it) to "mainstream" politicians and/or their lackeys we'll be fully Islamified before 2020.
PMK wrote : "Mark, So why do people still vote for the Left? The Tories might be bad but are they THAT bad?"
I've realised as I've grown older that the indoctrination with the left really starts at a younger age. In College/University already the pro Palestine anti Israel propaganda is being thrown all over the place. Also as youths, we don't really appreciate the value of money and hard work and while young we all have our dreams, our aspirations and above all, we want to be free and not to be controlled. This is the mantra of the left, to be free and to not be controlled. While it does make complete common sense, they forget that in order for a society to function, every person has their part to play/be part of the chain. Therefore all the beliefs of the Left go right out of the window. It is the left who spend most of their time unemployed, disrespecting society, gladly accepting benefits from the hard working,so they can disrespect us even more. The left are nothing but parasites in life, they contribute nothing and the NuLabour government epitomise the 'parasite'. Think about it, all the members of the NuLabour government grew up and had the chance of University with a 'grant' system. They were quite happy to spend their youth, getting a free education, reading their Marx and listening to Dylan, yet when they get older, their idea of helping the youth, is to continue with student loans, leaving students thousands of pounds in debt when they leave University. The Labour government are more interested in helping Africans instead of the people whom elect them into power.
People vote for the left, because they still have this false belief that NuLabour are the party for the people and that the Convervatives are the party for the toffs. While I wouldn't vote for either as they're one and the same, when it comes to common sense, Tory have far more than Labour ever will have.
You just have to look at our society and the majority of the minority are all left wing. They'll vote for Labour as they are the party that speaks to them.
Fjordman,
Italy, out of most of the European Countries, has without a doubt the most glorious history and culture that has influenced all of Europe. All one has to do is think of the influence of Italian Culture, it's phenominal. All I really have to say is Latin and there you go.
Regarding the Germans, the Danish, the Spanish in fact all of Europe, I truly believe that they will rise up. I think think many are suffering from Government legislation that is leading to their oppression. All one really has to do is think of the wondrous cultures that make up Europe. Think of the great Warriors of the past and EVERY European country has them. When it comes to society and civilisation and advancement and creating peace and democracy, not forgetting arts and literature, then Europe has it all. Simply there really are few civilisation that come close. Then we can think of further afield and the wonderful cultures of the Chinese, Japanese and Indian peoples, they are all at threat from Islam too. I was going to mention Russia, but in all honesty, it's their Commnist 'infiltration' of Europe that has really created this whole mess in the first place and Russia really does have alot to answer for, although, like the countries I've already mentioned, they too face a threat from Islam.
I've already mentioned it, but the "peace project" you speak of certainly will crumble and another World War will be the reason. When people in Europe eventually realise just what is happening behind their backs, as their elected politicians, who with their promises of creating a better society, are found out to be the charlatans they are, they will be very angry and will enact destructive revenge.
Islam will think that invasion by immigration, to lie as sleepers until the war cry was a good thing. The only problem will be that their escape route to Islamic lands will have been cut off and I believe that the fervour of the European people will mean little if no quarter.
Mark,
I was a Democrat in my youth. I even voted for Jimmy Carter. Four years of him and I have yet to vote for another Democrat for president. Working and earning a living and watching government waste your hard-earned tax dollars is enough to wise up most people, regardless of the indoctrination that takes place in the schools.
There is a maxim in American politics that the person who is not liberal at age twenty doesn't have a heart but the one who is not conservative at age thirty doesn't have a brain.
PMK,
That is a very good saying. From watching American Politics, I've found that your Democrats are more like our Liberals than left wing Labour. Our Conservatives(historically) are like your Republicans although at the moment our conservatives are more like your Democrats.
There is a saying here as well that a "Conservative is a Liberal who's been mugged".
The biggest problem you have in your society as do we have are the 'champagne socialists'. Your film stars and musicians like ours are all predominately left wing/liberals and so they are of course are looked upon as gods by the impoverished society. It amazes me, for the simple reason that here in the UK, people will continue to be poor and have the ideology of the Left even though it's going to get them nowhere.
Once you've lived your life, experienced what life has thrown at you, do you acquire wisdom. Your saying is so correct, because most people I know, that vote for the left, over 30 are angry and impoverished people, who blame their own failures on everyone but themselves. This is our biggest problem in society in that we live in a 'blame' culture which unfortunately has been hastened to its current situation by American Law Firms that have sprung up all over the UK, oddly enough under our NuLabour government. Blame has taken over from common sense and self responsibility, so instead of walking along the road and avoiding the hole, a person will fall in it, blame the council and sue.
PMK,
I think it was Churchill that was credited with saying the "If you aren't a liberal....".
Mark,
Heard the same thing here in the states as well about being mugged and political affiliation. This exchange now has me curious about another saying I grew up with. PRR(pre-Ronald Reagan), the saying went in the southern states: "The only difference between a Democrat and a Republican is that the Democrat gets elected." DRR(during Ronald Reagan), that was all changed as a flood of conservative Dems switched to the Republican party. So that little saying no longer holds water. But now I am curious if there is/was a similar saying in the UK. Never ceases to amaze me just how much in common the UK and the US still have in common.
As for the article, read it on PJM. Some of the comments left a bit to be desired. But I guess that is to be expected. Some people just refuse to believe the truth even with their own eyes. You don't need to be a scholar of islam to see the lies being spread. But those that refuse to believe just won't make that logical leap. If so many muslims are "misunderstanding" islam, why is there no movement to correct this little "misunderstanding," and furthermore, how are they able to use the koran and such to justify their actions? Now I know that those who prefer to wear rose-colored glasses, head in the sand, etc., are only able to make comparisons with other religions and then come up with the oh so enlightened view, all religions are bad. But still, if one only asked themselves that question one would see the light. But I haven't seen that happen a whole lot. Well, so much for the left being open-minded.
Kevin,
"Now I know that those who prefer to wear rose-colored glasses, head in the sand, etc., are only able to make comparisons with other religions and then come up with the oh so enlightened view, all religions are bad."
Relativism is truly a form of self imposed mental retardation, and as such it has become the bane of western thought. How mighty a tool though! All you need to do is know a little bit about your world, then viola! You now have a godlike ability to self-extrapolate all the knowledge of the entire universe without even having to work at it. Simply amazing stuff.
If you encounter this in debate with a liberal, please feel free to quote this, "Relativism is truly a form of self imposed mental retardation, and as such it has become the bane of western thought."
If they pop off with that "all religion is bad" stuff they must be forced to state facts, such as number of contemporary violent acts, and scriptural justifications used. This of course will either go to the Crusades, or abortion clinics, which will end in a flogging.
Ethoman -
I can really relate to your last comment to me, as I avoid one certain family member for the same reason too; it seems that swearing and anger go hand-n-hand, and that toxic combo just drains the life out of me!
I have better things to do with my time, like spend it with those who can better manage their anger. I mean, where is it written that we have to either like or spend time with every member of our family?
Besides, they seem to love their anger and drugs (if drugs/alcohol are involved), more than they love their own family, so who needs an empty void like that in their life? You and I are better off without people I consider to be "black holes", and it sounds like you know what I mean.
Kevin,
You are correct in that Winston Churchill did pen the phrase "Any man who is under 30, and is not a liberal, has not heart; and any man who is over 30, and is not a conservative, has no brains."
Frank Rizzo penned the phrase "A Liberal is a Conservative who hasn't been mugged".
There is no saying in the UK like there is in America regarding "...the Democrat gets elected", but I can say that the situation in the UK is dire when it comes to Politics. The three main Political Parties, The Conservatives, NuLabour and The Liberal Democrats are different only by name. We have seen more and more party inter-switching between Politicians. It shows more and more that what we have are Politicians who have no political affiliation, but instead a desire to be in the Elected Party and obviously still in a job. The integrity in British Politics has gone. It is not just Politics but in all aspects of British life. Policemen and Women are so because of career and not because of wanting to do their job and Police. The same goes for teaching who like the police are career teachers, who see adverts for teachers by the Government and see the salaries offered and decide to change career from waitress or retail worker, to become a teacher, even though none of them have the common sense to boil an egg as all they have to do is follow the Government legislation and outlined 'teaching curriculum' as many never even finished school and got good grades. We have teachers in the UK from Africa and Eastern Europe who because of 'equal work policies' are now being English teachers, teaching our children English when they can't even speak it properly. Our society is in a mess and we've got NuLabour to thank for that. You know NuLabour, every America loved Tony Blair - the man responsible for the complete and utter destruction of the UK, but he certainly pulled the wool over America's eyes.
Islam are able to use their Koran to justify their actions because Islam are protected here in the UK by the Government. They are treated better than any other minority. Any anti Islamic dialogue is swept under the carpet. The media sweep Anti Islamic comments under the carpet. Previous broadsheets and tabloids which used to allow Freedom of Speech, now disallow any 'anti' Islamic comments from their forums and normally ban that person's IP address. Islam have 100% backing in the UK from the Police and the Government. It's getting so bad that in some cases, Police actually discuss with Muslim elders in communities before making arrests. They are also considering putting shoes on their dogs when they go into Muslim households to investigate crimes.
In a nutshell, Islam can do whatever they want in the UK as our pathetic government continually appeases them. We cannot speak out about it or else we're arrested for Incitement to Religious Hatred, a bill specifically passed in Parliament for protecting Islam. There is no discussion on Islam and instead our buses drive through our streets with banners on the side stating "Islam: The religion of peace". In London there are billboard posters with the same. A Muslim is allowed Polygamy and worse still allowed to claim benefits for his wives and children in other countries, even though a British Non Muslim can face up to 9 years in prison. Muslim women are allowed a driving license where the picture is one in Islamic dress where only their eyes are visible. Muslim women dressed in full 'Ninja' outfits are allowed to walk into banks, whereas a Non Muslim is not allowed in if his face is covered. This situation in the UK is getting so bad a so biased towards Islam that when the backlash happens it will be bloody and brutal.
The Government is just not able to see that it's mixing the ingredients for full on Revolution in the UK. The anger amongst British people is growing not daily but hourly.
louchette, I hope you don't like Bill Maher's new movie about Religion because he doesn't talk much about Islam but he spends most of the time on Christianity, then some of the other religions. The only way to be truly iconoclastic (instead of fashionably) is not to go after the tired old horses, but the new camel, Islam. Even equal treatment of them all won't cut it anymore. Anyone who doesn't treat Islam as 1000 times worse than all other religions--those are the people I'd like to say "fuck you" to.
No kidding, Denver! LOL!!!