A good piece in that it demonstrates that nothing less than modern Muslim rhetoric exposes Islam even to those non-Muslims who refuse to take Islamic theology and history seriously. "An Historical Moment for Islam," by Dr. Richard L. Benkin for the Asian Tribune, September 9:
Many argue ... that our fight is not really against radical Islam but against Islam itself. Even our enemies tell us that again and again; that what they do is mandated by their faith. I respond that is only the radicals’ warped opinion. Not true, people say, and they quote Quranic passages that mandate a universal Caliphate and prohibit friendship with non-Muslims. I retort with passages from other holy books that also call from [sic: for?] some pretty gruesome behavior. But then I am shown Islam’s history of forcing its faith on others by fire and sword; of the many killed because they would not submit. True enough, I reply, but is that essentially Islamic any more than the Inquisition is essentially Christian?For the record, what "pretty gruesome behavior" is found in "other" holy books? What other major holy book calls for a universal empire (caliphate) or openly prohibits its adherents from befriending "others"? As for Islam's bloody history by "fire and sword" not being essentially Islamic the way the Inquisition is not essentially Christian, here's the problem with that analogy: In the Bible, one will be sorely pressed to find anything even remotely justifying the Inquisition; in the Koran -- not to mention the hadith, sira, tarikh, etc. -- one will find innumerable justifications, indeed, commands, for conquest by fire and sword. Moreover, today, one will be extremely hard pressed to find self-identified Christians who approve of the Inquisition. Conversely, in the Islamic world, today as yesterday, the initiators of the violent and bloody Islamic conquests, especially the first four "righteous" caliphs, are still venerated, and, second to the Islamic prophet himself, are often seen as role models. This is no different than if the Christian world today idolized Torquemada of the Spanish Inquisition. Subtle but important points. Here, though, is the writer's one solid observation:
There is one argument, however, for which I have no compelling answer: the consistent failure of Muslim leaders—both religious and political—to condemn Islamist terrorism unequivocally and to maintain that principled stance. That means condemning terrorism without always adding how "others" are terrorists, too; without "understanding" the terrorists’ alleged frustration; without providing a loophole to define innocent victims as potential adversaries. When Dr. Baruch Goldstein entered a mosque in Hevron, Israel and began shooting, the Jewish world including the government of Israel condemned him without trying to "explain" his actions. When extremists turned his gravesite into a place of pilgrimage, the Israeli government destroyed it.Of course, even this accurate observation can be explained away as just another example that Islam does, in fact, teach violence, intolerance, and the rest.On the other hand, what do Muslims hear at the mosque? Anti-Islamist Muslim, Salah Uddin Shoaib Choudhury of Bangladesh says he was told, "Kill a Jew, be a good Muslim." Neither is that relegated to a small group of extremists. Muslim clerics regularly refer to Jews a "sons of apes and pigs," to Christians as "Crusaders," and to Hindus as "polytheists"; with each of those designations telling Muslims to treat those non-Muslims with contempt. Every week, these calls—and worse—are played to millions on state-run radio in Muslim countries. When Israelis released Sami Kuntar, who smashed a baby’s head with a rifle butt, Muslim clerics and political leaders hailed him as a hero. Not one dissented.
Today, however, Muslim leaders have a chance to reverse that shame and put to rest claims that Islam is the problem.[...]
All of Islam now has the chance to stand on the side of justice. Will it answer the challenge?
All of Islam now has the chance to stand on the side of justice. Will it answer the challenge?
i'm waiting.
i still waiting.
zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz.
"All of Islam now has the chance to stand on the side of justice. Will it answer the challenge?"
No.
I urge you to get into what's called "reality," Dr. Benkin.
Muslims (and militant atheists) portray the Spanish Inquisition as if it were some kind of holocaust against non-Christians. However, historians estimate the total number of people executed by the Inquisition at between 1,000 and 3,000. In other words, on 11 September 2001, jihadists killed more people in the name of Islam in a single day than inquisitors did in the name of Christianity in one hundred and sixty years, between the years 1540 and 1700. Of course, it is not a fair analogy to compare terrorist murders to judicial executions. Therefore, we might say that since 1979 Iran has executed more people in the name of Islam than all those killed by the Inquisition over more than one and a half centuries.
Forget about Islamic theology and history: it's their own daily words that convict Muslims
(From the Article)
The life of Mohammad provided the leadership and example for all Muslims to follow. His comrads recorded his words and actions along with some of their interpretation. But it was and is Mohammad's leadership that created the whole thing that manifests itself as Islam today.
Raymond's article is exactly correct. We judge them today based on what they do today, not on what Mohammad or his ancient comrads said or did. But I do not expect Muslims to clean up their act any time soon, because the are believers and followers of Mohammad, who was and is one of the worst possible examples to follow.
tarikh?
A fair amount of nastiness can be associated with Christianity, but Jesus has plausible deniability on most of it. He didn't have anything to do with the Crusades, the Inquisition, the various exterminations of heretics and so forth, the bloody confrontations between Catholics and Protestants, the persecution of Jews.
Muhammad has plausible deniability on the Sunni-Shia conflict, but not much else. He molded Islam into an aggressive, bullying, arrogant, tyrannical, all around nasty religion and way of life. His faithful followers continue marching on the road he paved.
I firmly believe that the majority of Muslims are good people. One problem here is that being a good person does not matter.
Islam is a way of life. Many good people have died fighting for their way of life that was based upon evil. Slavery in the South is an example. Millions of good Germans and Japanese fought for evil during World War II. An additonal problem is one of scale.
With over 1 billion Muslims in the world, we
are faced with a HUGE problem. The type of change that we are discussing will trigger open warfare. A taste of it is present in Iraq and Afghanistan. Another example is the violence that is present in the places where Islam is making contact with other cultures.
All of Islam now has the chance to stand on the side of justice. Will it answer the challenge?
It will say there is no challenge to be met because Islam has always stood on the side of justice. The problem is that Islam has its own unique sense of justice. Islam has one law for itself and another for the rest of the world and it sees nothing wrong in that because it has been ordained by god. Until that mindset changes, you might as well talk to the wall.
Here's additional fallout from that, emulating the perfect man thingy. When your culture reveres a pedophile, things like this will happen...often.
http://www.news.com.au/story/0,23599,24302102-401,00.html
I also noticed the poor young girl's battle was a "lonely" one. That, and the fact the people who are outraged by this are those pesky foreign right works tells me everything I need to know about their culture. And if it wasn't for the 10 billion dollars in American aid for the last 7 or 8 years the poor little thing would have lost even if she wasn't killed.
Plus Raymond, as a Roman Catholic I can tell you that Pope John Paul II (the Great), apologized for our behavior over 500 years...
What is being done in the name of Islam is today, and the last 30 years!
We evolved, they are retrograde!!!
Another point, we forget that in the 1800's in N.Africa, they practised white slavery against us, boarded our boats, attacked our interests in the Mediterranean, etc.
Islam is not the religion of peace; it is the religion of hatred, mysoginy, darkness, barbarism and war!!!
I've been having a discussion with Abdullah Mikail on an old thread:
http://www.jihadwatch.org/archives/022507.php#comments
About translations and Muhammad, and he enlightened me that the Qu'ran doesn't really say "Take not for friends unbelievers rather than believers", even though that's how every translation I've come across translates it, but that it really says "Take not for advisors in religion unbelievers rather than believers".
Now that the proper translation is made known that should solve this terrorism thing, right?
Oops, I forgot there's still:
-The way the Qu'ran treats kuffar (I'm waiting for the translation that clarifies it to mean "people of goodwill who shouldn't be harmed in any way".
-The "despicable" Hadith about rocks wanting Muslims to kill Jews.
-The verses about slaying and being slain for Allah being the highest glory.
-The example Muhammad gave; you know, slave-owning (the prettier ones were sex-slaves), having sex with a 9-year old, and stealing, killing and warring for Allah.
See, I've always said that Christianity and Islam both say the unbeliever is going to Hell, but that ONLY Islam will speed you there by killing you.
Justice isn't in the Muslim lexicon any more than tolerance and respecting the rights of unbelievers are.
As far Mr.Benkin goes he's a useful idiot and west hater like many of his associates have been shown to be.
And where a devout Christian may say you're going to hell if you don't believe, thats as far as it goes. A devout Muslim OTOH can murder you because his holy book mandates that he either convert, conquer or kill non-believers.
Not to mention being able to rape your women and enslave the children because they are unbelievers.
Mo foe, '-The way the Qu'ran treats kuffar (I'm waiting for the translation that clarifies it to mean "people of goodwill who shouldn't be harmed in any way".'
You should blog with muslims - they will do just that - pull out some obscure hadith or surah that says just that - the infidels shouldn't be harmed. Too bad they don't tell their own about them. But, they tell us about them and will totally ignore you, deny, deflect, muddy up the argument with other's bad behavior, etc if you bring up the violent passages that outnumber the peaceful ones by 200 to one.
The only thing to say in the barrage of semiquivocal verbage is this: Do I believe my lyin' ears and eyes, or their lyin' mouths?
People are still waiting for perfection to be perfected. Perfecting perfection is a job for muslim moderates and kufr apologists.
But it's a tough job, Islam is so perfect already there is little room for added perfection.
It has taken 1400 years for this 'perfectness' to take its present form, so it's not likely that Allah's Islam will get more perfect than it already is, reformers or not. So the moderate's and apologists jobs are not to make Islam more perfect, but to convince us filthy kuffar that Islam already is perfect.
The other side of that coin is people like RS who's job is not to make Islam more imperfect, but to point out the already existing imperfections that create jihad.
Anyone who points out imperfections in Islam, or with Allah or Mohammad, is despised by Allah.
Watch out for flat tires on the Maxwell...
Psalm 15 says that Messiah's kingdom will reach the ends of the earth, while the Great Commission at the end of Matthew 28 calls for making disciples of all nations. Of course, the weapons of such a campaign of conquest are preaching, prayer, and ethical example blessed by the Holy Spiirt.
But, of course your point about Islam being a dreadfully bloody-minded religion is well-taken.