No myth
On this day of remembrance, a Muslim restates the majority view:
"Opinion: Terrorists hijacked the Muslim faith," by Saqib A. Zuberi for the San Jose Mercury News, September 10 (thanks to Doug):
As the nation remembers the tragedy of Sept. 11, 2001, the heart and soul of the Muslim remembers fellow Americans who died tragically in the terrorist attacks that Tuesday morning. Not only did the terrorists wage war on America, but they also hijacked the religion of Islam.
Zuberi, like virtually all others, doesn't spell out exactly how the terrorists hijacked Islam. Presumably we are to believe that their cries of "Allahu akbar" and the jihadists' justifications of their actions based on Islamic theology and law are false representations of Islamic teaching, and that Islam actually does not condone -- but does not condone what? For Zuberi, as for virtually all others, the answer is apparently that Islam does not condone "terrorism."
Very well. But even if one accepts that nothing like terrorism is meant by the Qur'an's injunction to Muslims to "strike terror into the hearts of the enemies of Allah" (8:60), the difficulty with this is that Islamic jihadists themselves don't speak about terrorism. They speak of their activities in the context of Islamic jihad. But "jihad" is a word that does not appear in this article. Does Zuberi disapprove of jihad against unbelievers? Of jihad violence? Of Islamic supremacism? If he does, he doesn't say so here.
Last week, former presidential candidate Rudy Giuliani stated: "For four days in Denver, the Democrats were afraid to use the term 'Islamic terrorism.' I imagine they believe it is politically incorrect to say it. I think they believe they will insult someone. Please tell me who they are insulting if they say, 'Islamic terrorism.' They are insulting terrorists!"These statements refute the post-Sept. 11 efforts of all hard-working, loyal Muslim-Americans who have denounced terrorism from all groups and in all forms. The words actually encourage those terrorists who hijacked the Islamic faith.
This is not in the least true on any level. Even if the terrorists had hijacked the Islamic faith, they did what they did in the name of Islam and because of Islam as they understood it. Islam was how they explained their actions; Islam was what motivated their actions. Thus it is perfectly legitimate to speak of "Islamic terrorism" even if one believes that Islam actually teaches that Muslims and non-Muslims should live together as equals on an indefinite basis. It no more "refutes" anti-terror Muslims than the phrase "Italian fascism" "refutes" anti-fascist Italians. As I have pointed out many, many times, to speak of Islamic terrorism is not to say that all terrorists are Muslims any more than to speak of "fair-minded media figures" is to say that all media figures are fair-minded.
But Zuberi charges on in the same vein:
The rhetoric used against terrorism must be directed toward real terrorists and not toward the Islamic faith that their actions contradict. Associating the word "Islamic" with "terrorism" lumps in all Muslims. Our country's leadership should be wiser. It should send a clear message that American Muslims aspire for the same freedoms and security for their families and homes as do all other Americans.
Our country's leadership is wiser -- wiser, that is, by Zuberi's lights. Hasn't he heard of the politically correct directives forbidding officials from speaking about Islam in connection with terrorism?
In any case, in reality it is not up to "our country's leadership" to "send a clear message that American Muslims aspire for the same freedoms and security for their families and homes as do all other Americans." It is up to Muslims in America to do that. Have they done so? In fact, no. What we get are disingenuous and misleading statements like this present article. Why won't Muslim spokesmen ever say that yes, they reject jihad violence and Islamic supremacism, and don't believe Sharia should ever be imposed in the West? Could it be because...they don't reject those things? Their continued lack of specificity in their denunciations of terrorism (as well as their utter failure to back up their words with deeds) only feeds such suspicions.
The remembrance of Sept. 11 affects all faiths. It reminds Muslims of the great need for interfaith dialogue with their neighbors to communicate Muslim abhorrence toward all forms of terrorism and oppression.
Some Muslims believe that all non-Sharia forms of government are oppressive by nature. Does Zuberi? He doesn't say.
All Americans hold a strong desire to root out the evils of extremism, terrorism, ignorance and intolerance from within their communities, regardless of faith. Sept. 11 and Ramadan fall at the same time this year, hence this is a special chance for Muslims to help achieve this goal.As a means for healing the country's loss and erasing the misconceptions that still exist in the post 9/11-era, Bay Area mosques have adopted an annual tradition of opening their doors for an entire weekend so community members and public officials of all faiths can gather to break bread and fast with their Muslim neighbors.
This will take place this weekend as part of our celebration of Ramadan, the ninth holy month in the Islamic calendar, when the Koran, the sacred scriptures for Muslims (after the revelations to Abraham, Moses and Jesus) was revealed to Muhammad from 610-632 A.D. The theme of the open houses is "A Month of Purification," when Muslims focus on growing closer to God, and increasing charitable acts and self-discipline.
Zuberi makes no mention, of course, of the fact that Islam considers Abraham, Moses and Jesus to have been Muslim prophets whose Islamic message was corrupted by their followers to create what we know of as Judaism and Christianity. I've discussed this at length, along with its implications for contemporary jihad terrorism and Islamic supremacism, in Jihad Watch's exclusive Blogging the Qur'an series.
The Prophet Muhammad regarded Ramadan as the "month of sharing with others." So it seems appropriate to include this open-house weekend as an opportunity to focus on multi-faith understanding and cooperation, as well as to educate neighbors and officials of the Muslims' peacefulness and contributions within the community. Muslim communities in this country denounce all forms of terrorism and oppression."Islamic terrorism" is a myth. Perpetuating the term is an affront to the principle of religious freedom upon which the United States was founded.
Then comes the CAIR connection:
to Attend an open houseThe 2008 Bay Area Ramadan-Mosque Open House is Saturday and Sunday, sponsored by the Council on American-Islamic Relations (CAIR) and eight mosques in Santa Clara, San Jose, Fremont, Oakland, San Martin and San Francisco....
To Arabic speakers, the name Zuberi is rather funny as it means "My [the slang term for the male member]." Anyway, he is such a Zuber.
When the ancient Hebrew kings enforced the Laws of Leviticus and Deuteronomy for thousands of years, they "hijacked" Judaism. Moses "hijacked" Judaism when he told the Israelites to cleanse the land of pagans, and when he set forth civil laws that would be barbaric by today's standards.
Joseph Smith Hijacked Mormonism when he married 50 wives and excluded blacks from his church.
Whenever religious people do what their scriptures tell them to do, they are hijackers. The Pope has hijacked Catholicism by preaching against abortion.
The Islamic "brand" has been hurt by Muslims flying planes into building in America, shooting children in the back in Russia and blowing up teenagers in pizza parlors in Israel all while shouting Allah Akbar!!! People are not stupid and know that Muslims are involved in almost all religious violence on one or both sides.That's why politicians don't even bother pretending that Islam is a "religion of peace".The idea that Islam means peace has been discredited by Muslims themselves.
I wonder when Mr. Zuberi [I am giggling like a school boy who heard a naughty joke] meets with his brethren from an Arabic background, how they contain themselves from laughing when they call his name or he introduces himself. He is more of a joke than his name is when spoken in the tongue of his Arabic masters.
A sad anniversary. We will never forget that horrible day when our world was changed forever.
Thank you, Mr. Spencer and everyone at Jihad Watch / Dhimmi Watch, including all the good people who post here. God bless America, God bless Western civilization, God bless us all.
Roxane:
The tragedy of the human condition is that most people are incredibly foolish and are easily seduced. Education, even at the highest level, does not exempt the holders of lofty degrees from foolishness.
so there are eight other "holy" months???
Were there not lots of battles during Ramadan during Muhammad's lifetime?
Out of curiosity . . .was there a 9/11 memorial service held at your local mosque?
Amen.
And we'll keep only the blessings we're willing to fight for.
We will not defeat Islamic "terrorism" until we admit that:
1) Identify the enemy - it's ISLAMIC. (we are unwilling to do this)
2) It's jihad and the natural way of Islamic warfare. (inner spiritual struggle my ass)
3) Immigration enables all this to occur.
Therefore, we will become dhimmis.....
Axel Foley:
Yes Mohamed and the early Muslims fought major campgains during Ramadhans.
MY 9/11 pet peeve is the use of the word 'tragedy'. This was not a 'tragedy', it was a premeditated MASS MURDER of incomprehensible evil. It didn't 'happen' it was done by human beings to other human beings.
While the 'enlightened' tell us terrorism does not exist, the counter of deadly terrorist acts is now at 11829...And growing...
A sad aniversary indeed. This whole matter makes me sick not only because of all the loss of lives, but because our politicians refuse to get it right about Islam.
In the above article, Rudy Giuliani said, "For four days in Denver, the Democrats were afraid to use the term 'Islamic terrorism.' I imagine they believe it is politically incorrect to say it. I think they believe they will insult someone. Please tell me who they are insulting if they say, 'Islamic terrorism.' They are insulting terrorists!"
He hit the nail on the head. The Democrat Party should change their name to the Dhimmi Party.
Why won't Muslim spokesmen ever say that yes, they reject jihad violence and Islamic supremacism, and don't believe Sharia should ever be imposed in the West?
We do not have a gov't official or MSM elite to ask such a genuine question to these islamist appologists.
Walid Shoebat describes Islam that he was part of as a terrorist as...
"Islamic fundamentalism is a cult like process that indoctrinates masses in unison, in order to convert them to become seekers of salvation by death. In order to establish a Islamic theocracy, where Shariah takes over the entire laws of society in which Islam & Muslims are dominant and non Muslims are subservient."
Now if a Muslim doesn't take their faith this serious to this point, these types of Muslims are obviously seen through out the world...and used to great advantage to hide the ominous fundamental, foundational, core of Islam. They are used as a buffer when introducing the cult into non Muslim nations to deceive & numb the country to sleep. Meanwhile the dark shadowy side eventually sneaks into your inner cities, suburbs, work places, schools, political arena etc...
And there is CAIR the whole time to smooth the transition, confuse the media, protect the fundamentalist from any alarmists [commonly called the Islamophope now].
Pak, do the world a favor and up the dosage, k?
Yeah, you moslems were just sitting around the mosque playing mumbly-peg, listening to lessons about living in peace...when all the sudden the terrible Americans bombed the sh*t out of you.
Yeah, right.
Good post.
PakRocks: Like other Muslims, you are in your carppy fantasy world. Pak does not rock. It is a slimey hell hole full of green slimes. Your Pak sucks royally. It is a basket case amongst the nations. Economy in doledrums, no innovation, honor killings, bombings, shootings, epicentre of all terrorism, that is your Pak. Live there happily, the western countries don't need you.
The comments responding to Mr. Zuberi's beautifully-timed demand for submissive infidel silence have been . . . dubious, to say the least. Some of them have been quite eloquent.
The Mercury News has a history of puff pieces celebrating Islam, usually around Ramadan. The "so happy in my hijab" and "what a wonderful outreach interfaith Iftar dinner" are so hackneyed now as to be almost comical; yet the Merc rehashes them over, and over, and over again, as if without their careful oversight us nerdy Silicon Valley types would be heading for the mosques with torches.
Here are some videos of 9/11 that the media will never show you:
http://barenakedislam.wordpress.com/
YOU did 9/11 to use that as an excuse to kill Muslims.
Posted by: PakRocks
Yep, and I shot myself in the foot as an excuse to buy a shoe with a hole in it.
That's really paranoid Paks. Go to the doctor and ask for 'Thorazine'...
I see Paksucks is back again. He must have gotten out of his juior high terrorism class early today. Why don't you do us a favor and take your juvenile statements back to class?
Pakroks, here's the deal:
Before 9/11, Islam was irrelevant for us in the West (those of us who knew it even existed). Muslims ceased to have any influence in the West once the Ottomans were defeated at Vienna, and hadn't contributed anything positive to mankind for several hundred years before that. You were at best a cipher.
The notion that the U.S. would kill its own people to make war on Muslims (a bunch of ciphers, who dey?) is so farfetched that it needs no refutation. In your arrogance, you imagine yourselves much more important than you really are.
We've allowed ourselves to be sidetracked in Iraq by the stupidity of our current administration. No matter who is elected President, our focus is moving to Afghanistan/Pakistan, where it should have been all along. And if some innocent villagers are killed, well that happens in war. You could make it easy on yourselves and turn over bin Laden and Zawahiri, who've benefited from your hospitality for seven years now. Before next January 20th would be good timing.
The BBC consistently uses the word 'terrorist' when they should be saying 'muslim' or 'mohammedan'.
Obviously, then, these are just synonyms.
that should have been "j-u-n-i-o-r" as in immature, childish, sub-intelligent...
poetcomic1, I'm with you. It wasn't a tragedy.
A tragedy is when a comet hits your car while you're driving down the highway, minding your own bidness.
This was murder.
Pak; your people still wipe their asses with their fingers.
You tie your little girls down and cut off their clitorises.
If your little macho male muslim feelings are hurt by your sister or yo' momma, you'll slit her throat and toss her in a ditch and call it honor.
And you're calling us pussies?
You're beyond pathetic.
STFU!
What Islamic terror? Islam is Peace: http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2001/09/20010917-11.html
Pakistan, like 95% of all mooooslim nations(if you can call them "nations") is a crap-hole. That's why half of their raghead populations on "immigrating" to the West.
The only solution is SEPARATIONISM.
1) Restrict moooslim immigration into the West.
2) Disengage economically from arab/moooslim nations. They need us more than we need them (even considering oil).
3) Any moooslim acts of war need to be punished immediately and severely, VERY SEVERELY.
4) Restrict the building of any new mosques (political beachheads) in Western nations.
5) Mohammedans need to be "encouraged" to re-patriate to their crap-hole "nations". But again, it's the number of visas our State Dept. gives out. Reduce that number ASAP.
About PackRocks:
Let us pray in order to cure him from Islam.
He is a good guy, he is just sick: we must love him and try to cure him.
He cannot be happy and the main cause is Islam.
Christian prayer can work to cure him! Let's try!
You need to remember that God gives some over to a reprobate mind.
You pray for him... the rest of us will keep an eye on 'im.
"Opinion: Terrorists hijacked the Muslim faith," by Saqib A. Zuberi "
On this day of to remember, 3,000 REAL MARTYRS, please Mr.Zuberi spare me the TAYYAQA.
But for Islam 9/11 would not have occurred. Islam is an enemy to America just as much as Nazism and Communism were, except that Mohammed's creed is more deceptive than Hitler's or Marx's belief system. But it's just as lethal to freedom, democracy, the Constitution and this Great Republic.
PakRocks: You are beneath contempt.
PakRocks,
Would it suprise you that the false prophet Mohammed was a TERRORIST from the start of of Islam?
Islam has been at war with the rest of the world for the last 1,400 years.
I too, couldn't watch those videos of those people jumping to their deaths without choking up, and wanting revenge on the cold-blooded MURDERERS who committed such a vile, reprehensible act.
Horselady, your page has 13 thumbs up at LGF.
I posted it over there.
Evil, mealy-mouthed, wicked, pathetic liar
Zubrik indeed
muslims who were born into islam such as "pakrocks" have many lessons to learn if they want to see the light and cease to be "mohammedan". being muslim must be a very depressed constate state of mind, how can you prostrate yourself to a god of death and keep your humanity sane? being a "mohammedan" means you are in a constant state of war within your mind and outside of yourself. so while pakrocks works on his
mohammedan traits we need to show the world of non-mohammedans what islam is all about, and if pakrocks wants to liberate himself he will have help from the the kaffir and become a human being again.
With that last obscene outburst, I think I've seen enough of PakRocks.
And having deleted a few retorts that followed it, this seems like a good time to offer this general reminder: Please keep it clean.
So I have had an Interesting week. Been schlepping another blogg filled with the usual cabal of relativists. I have come to the conclusion that people are so desperate to disbelieve the global threat of Islamic Jihad theology that no matter what you say they will always come up the relativist answer. Even to the extent that Van Gogh just plain should have been smarter and had it coming, but too bad though attitude. It is fun to observe the total surprise ... rusty gears grinding away, as I explain how horribly retarded societies become if they habitually suppress and murder their philosophers. Can anyone say ISLAM! LOL! At this point I am currently arguing the relativism between Christian Abortion clinic bombers and Jihad bombers, I am well armed I assure you. The funniest part is being the one that is the "crazy" right winger for quoting Islamic scripture. Anyways gland to check in and see some sane people again. This site, and Roberts book are the greatest resources and will always be home. Anyways just as pessimistic as usual about our prospects, but still not giving up either.
Robert, Hugh, And MarisolJW,
Having just gotten my computer home from the repair shop and seeing on this thread nonsense coming from PakRocks, thank-you for taking the needed action. On this somber day, my patience dealing with trolls is not good.
... Not only did the terrorists wage war on America, but they also hijacked the religion of Islam.
Oh, come on now, get serious, how can you "hijack" a religion?
The muslim islamo-nazi terrorists hijacked airliners in the name of Islam.
Maybe those misunderstanders misunderstood.
wow, this is just amazing.. so many narrow minded peolpe at one place! I am not a muslim, I am a white western young girl with two law degrees, but I get tempted to convert if you guys are the most opposite to muslims :) Because it has been a long, and I mean a loooong time since I have read so many straight out dumb comments as this. I think it would have to be on a youtube video of some sort. If you guys are serious, and honoustly feel threatened by Islam; lobby for some new legislation that will make it impossible for any religion to impose anything on anyone. I was thinking about posting some links, maybe in hope of enlightning some of you to formulate your opinions and arguements better, but than I realise that one cant help those who does not want help. So good luck to all of yall. I think you need it ;)
The rhetoric used against terrorism must be directed toward real terrorists and not toward the Islamic faith that their actions contradict.
You are misinformed. Our president and many others have taken great pains to say that the actions of ISLAMIC terrorists are not representative of all Muslims and have no justification in Muslim faith. (And who is a "real terrorist", anyway?)
Associating the word "Islamic" with "terrorism" lumps in all Muslims.
For starters, it doesn't. It's a proper adjective, in case you never learned English grammar. It is an attempt to define the origin of the terrorism being practiced.
If you don't want Islam to be associated with terrorism, you should stop referring to the ummah. Muslims created the group named "Islamic Jihad". We're just following your lead.
As for lumping in "all Muslims": the people we saw celebrating as the towers fell represent all Muslims. So if the shoe fits, wear it.
These statements refute the post-Sept. 11 efforts of all hard-working, loyal Muslim-Americans who have denounced terrorism from all groups and in all forms.
A few names and dates would have been helpful in clarifying whom you were speaking of. They weren't in my local newspaper or on any of the newscasts.
"Islamic terrorism" is a myth.
Is "Islamic Jihad" a myth?
ignorancewillkillusall...ever read the Quran?
Ever read any hadith?
Do you listen to what muslims themselves say?
Do you observe what they do?
Do you know about the perfect man, Mohammad and what makes him perfect?
If so, what do you make of it? Do you believe that Allah is God and Mohammad his messenger??
Since you have two law degree's, what do you think of Sharia?
Did you contribute anything to this thread? Did I learn anything from your post?
I looked and looked and I can't find anything, but I will keep looking...thanks...
"...one can not help those who does (sic) not want help.." and "..I am a white western girl with 2 law degrees..."
posted by ignorancewillkillusall
I think your name has a better message in it than your actual message.
#1 I don't think you are who you say you are. Your language use betrays you as either foreign and/or not as educated as you say you are. You wouldn't happen to be from the middle east would you?
#2 Do you read the actual articles posted here? Or do you just read the comments looking for those you find not PC enough for your tastes?
#3Do you know what today is? Does it mean anything to you?
#4 Do you have any young nephews or other relatives serving in some hellhole in the ME right now? Do you know why they are there? Aren't you glad your freedom of speech is being protected right now so that you can write about your degrees and "people who does not want help?"
#5 Why don't you convert and move there? I hear those burkas are pretty comfy.
ignorancewillkillusall
"but than I realise that one cant help those who does not want help"
With grammar and spelling such as that. I have to wonder what sort of “law” degree you have, and just exactly what sort of help it is you feel you could offer?
'ignorance'
first of all I do not necessarily believe that you are who you say you are. For all we know, you are a Mohammedan Boggart.
Second: you will only look silly if you accuse people here of being dumb and narrow-minded. Many here are tertiary-educated; many are older and wiser than you are. Many have lived and worked in Mohammedan lands. One of our favourite contributors here, until he died far too young, was a fully qualified archaeologist, teaching in academe.
Try exploring a few weeks' worth of the archives, before you write everyone off.
As for me: I have a PhD under my belt. I have probably read many, many more books than you have ever attempted (ever tried Maimonides' Guide for the Perplexed? Plato's Symposium? Dante's Divina Commedia in the original Italian? Tolstoy's War and Peace and Anna Karenina? Solzhenitsyn's 'The Gulag Archipelago'?? Homer? Euripides? ALL of Chaucer? Burton's marvellous translation of the '1001 Nights'...) and I have also read the entire Qur'an slowly and attentively more than once, taking notes.
Reading the Qur'an, all by myself, years ago, before I had ever heard of Mr Spencer, was quite enough to ring alarm bells: I saw then and there that Islam was a dangerous ideology: a cult, at least as weird as the Moonies or the Scientologists or the Mormons, and far more violent. Mr Spencer's expositions of the text of the Qur'an have simply confirmed that initial impression.
I had read the Qur'an well before 9/11 happened; it was *because* I had read the Qur'an, and also knew something about Mohammedan behaviour throughout history (though not anywhere near as much as I know now, after reading Bat Yeor and Andrew Bostom and Mr Spencer, besides others) that I was not really surprised by the jihad terror raid on 11th September 2001.
I have come to understand that Islam - the ideology - is a dangerous, aggressive geopolitical cult.
The great French sociologist and lay theologian and general maverick thinker and gadfly, Jacques Ellul, said *this* about Islam, and I completely agree with him:
"there is so much talk nowadays about the 'tolerance' and fundamental 'peacefulness' of Islam that it is necessary to recall its nature, which is fundamentally warlike".
Oh, and believe me, people here are agreed that there needs to be a much stronger resistance, in kafir lands, to what might be called 'sharia creep', the ceaseless barrage of great and small demands by Muslims for 'accommodation' of their laws and customs, at the expense of all others. Go on: pre-order Mr Spencer's next book, "The Stealth Jihad" where he documents exactly what kafir legislators and citizens are having to deal with.
Do not assume that people who post or read here are doing nothing to challenge what they honestly regard as a Clear and Present Danger to our entire civilisation.
But you will not hear in detail what they are doing; for as the saying goes, "the walls have ears", and those who seek to resist Jihad and Sharia do not necessarily want their plans overheard.
ignorancewillkillusall:
Two law degrees huh? That will make you twice as stupid as the normal human being and you will sink to the bottom of the ocean twice as fast. That's a good thing.
ignorancewillkillusall, nope. Ignorance will not kill us, but islam will.
You say you are thinking of converting...heh heh heh.
ignorancewillkillusall,
Has a double JD now that is really stupid. I mean what dumb University gives a double JD. Why do you not enlighten us with your links. Also what has you being a "white western girl" have to do with your comments. The very reason that you point that out makes me doubt who you are and that you are using taquiya and deception. Please stop spreading misinformation and speak the truth about Islam and the atrocities it continues to commit against humanity and civilization. Moreover I am offended and angry that you use disingenuous means to create a false perception of Islam and you insult my intelligence.
I knew there was something off about that "white western girl" comment. No western woman (that I know of) with 2 law degrees is going to call herself a "girl."
ignorancewillkillusall: I think you're a phony. I have a law degree and have to wonder why you would have two. Name them. Be specific as to their characterization. Also, you do not write very well. Your writing is sloppy and not indicative of a highly educated person. And you can't claim that you're of a different culture since you already identified yourself as "a white western young girl." Finally, why would a woman with advanced degrees ever describe herself as a " young girl?" Go ahead, prove me wrong. I say you can't. Put up or shut up, silly one.
Dumbledore's Army, marvelous rejoinder to "Ignorance". Thanks, also for the reference to Dominic (who also posted as necessitasnonhabetlegem). He left us about a year and half ago--I still miss his posts.
Unfortunately I wrote such a long comment that I timed out and had to log in again and the comment was *poof* gone.
Here goes a second try.
English is my third language, so excuse me for my grammar and spelling errors (especially the fact that the "'" sign is lacking). I do however understand why some of you are pointing it out, I would too if I was disagreeing with myself.
I am from Northern Europe, and yes, in fact there are white peolpe in the western world who doesnt speak English as their naitive tounge. I describe myself as a girl because I am 24 years old, and actually all my friends my age calls themselves girls aswell. I guess I think of a 40 year old woman when I use the word "woman". In Europe (at least where I have taken my degrees) we dont operate with JDs, but with masters, meaning law school is five years, not three, and after that you can supply with an LLM if you want to go into depth within a specific subject. Enough about me, if you believe I am a phony, so be it, but is it really so hard to believe that someone who isnt a muslim can feel frustrated about lousy comments?
I dont spread mis-information about Islam, to do that, I think I have to know a little bit more about Islam than I do now. Or else I could accidently spread the right word, and that would just make everything confusing right? Maybe I am being silly as some call me :) But I do want to learn, and I get so frustrated about all the propaganda I read everywhere, and I guess since 2 of the 4 first comments made was about some writers name just set the tone for how I read the rest of them. I too feel insecure about the world, including the increase of muslims in my country. The article written (San Jose Mercury News), in which the above article critiques, shows however that some muslims want to distance themselves from terrorisme, and I want to see more of that. Making fun of those that do, will not help. I do however agree with ZenaWarriorPrincess, and I appologice to her, my previous comment should have excluded you.
In the comment which I wrote that disappeared when I had to log in again I answered the ones who had replied to me at that time. For purposes of not writing all night, I will try to sum up;
I do listen to, and observe muslims in same way as I observe any other people. I dont have relatives fighting in Iraq, but if I did, I would not know why they were there. Today means something symbolic to me, seven years ago I realised that I had to think about un-thinkable situations in order to be able to understand what is going on in the world. In addition to that the date is symbolic in showing how sad sad sad features that lies within humankind. We can all agree on that it was people behind the act right? And yes, I am truly glad about the freedom of speech, without it we could just say sayonara. I am however interested in who you are referring to as protecting it charlie?
http://www.worldpublicopinion.org/pipa/articles/home_page/535.php?nid=&id=&pnt=535&lb=
'dumb'
I do not doubt that many of the people connected to this webpage is older and wiser than me. I do however doubt that any of those people posted a comment to this article before I did today (those where the ones I wrote off, I am sorry for not pointing that out in the previous comment). You are right, you have probably read a million books more than me, but thank you for the reference list, I will look into each and everyone in the following days(what you were wrong about was using the word "attempted", I have never decided to read a book without finishing it). I am glad to hear that you have studied the Quaran and taking notes, one day I will do the same. Since I dont speak arabic, I am however afraid I will get lost in translation.
And yeah, the burkas look really comfy, but so is my jogging pants :)
And your point is ...?
To answer one question that I think was directed to me:
The people who are protecting your freedom of speech are the ones who protect all of your freedoms anywhere freedom is valued, and that would NOT be in an area overtaken by islamics. You can thank whatever god you worship (I'm thinking allah) for my nephews, who are fighting now.
I still think you're a phony. And I still think your name is better than your messages. Ignorance does kill. That's why this site is worthwhile. Read the articles and learn from them so you won't be ignorant anymore.
Out of curiosity . . .was there a 9/11 memorial service held at your local mosque?
Posted by: miira
Good question. Anyone have any info/statistics about this?
horselady, Thank you for the link. It has taken some time to regain composure after watching this.
As was stated above the clip, "Never forget, this attack was done in the name of Islam."
About "Ignorancewillkillusall":
It seems to me that she could be Frenchspeaking or Dutchspeaking. Her grammar seems quite normal to me and I am Frenchspeaking with few knowledge of English: she is more probably Frenchspeaking.
In French or Dutch, it is normal to call "girl" a woman of 24 or 25 years old.
And English as third or fourth language is typical for Belgium. So, she is probably Belgian.
Me too I have two law degrees and other degrees. In Western Europe, several law schools are infested by leftist propaganda.
She is not stupid, she is fully infested by leftist propaganda since she is very young.
Dear "Ignorancewillkillusall",
Do not worry, I believe you are very smart. But even smart people can be misled because "Nous sommes tous des ignorants, mais nous n'ignorons pas les mêmes choses" (All of us are ignorants, but we are not ignorants of the same things).
I invite you to apply your motto: learn more about Islam, go in an Islamic shopbooks (there are lot of them in Brussels?), by some books by Muslims and for Muslims, read them.
There after, inform us of what you found.
To all those who think "some Muslims turning away from violence" is a GOOD thing:
Sure, it's a good thing for a while - then you let your guard down and then you find there are still some "misunderstanders of Islam" who would prefer to cut your throat rather than entertain the possibility that their religion is a problem.
Sure, let's be friends with the Muslims and let them turn our countries into Islamic states. Lets be friends and let sharia law and halal pervade our culture - making it sick and feeble (as Muslim countries are) from within.
Muslim's turning away from violence is a bad thing... because they will always turn back to violence. They always have, and they always will... so I say "bring it on".
Show me your violence, because that is ALL that Islam has. Without violence and the intimadation of others Islam is nothing. If Islam were peaceful Muslims would convert to other peaceful
faiths - and the only reason they do not is bcause Mislims enjoy the voilence, intimidation and aggression of their faith whic they think puts it above all other faiths.
I, and all non-Mulsims, have a right to live without Islam... so I look forward, with hope, to the day Islam is banned. And it will be.
Everyday non-Muslims are getting the picture and coming to the conclusion that Islam - like child sacrifice - is something that belongs in history books - not in our schools, governments and culture.
Islam will be banned in all public places, all mosques removed, all Islamic influences removed - and then sanity will return.
I say we must fight Islam now - and not let them get away with hiding behind the shallow "peace" which they only declare when they know tey are losing. I say, refuse this appesement and ban Islam. Islam will be driven out - its only a matter of time.
ignorancewillkillusall,
You are equally as dangerous as the followers of Islam are if not more so. Your ignorance and appeasing attitude will be your undoing. You fail to see the big picture and recognize the threat. You are making assumptions on looking at Muslims who are in your country who at this time are .... oh just read this site and the other links and come back when you are a little more enlightened to the reality of Islam. Because if not then you will live up to your name "ignorance will kill us all".
Terrorists hijacked Islam
NO THEY ARE JUST FULLFILLING IT. THE GOAL OF ISLAM IS TO RULE THE WORLD ...
AND SO CALLED MODERATE MUSLIMS ARE JUST BABY TERRORISTS WAITING TO BLUM AND EXPLODE. ...
THE REAL MODERATE MUSLIM SEES THE TRUTH AND STAY AWAY FROM THE IDEOLOGY TAUGHT IN MOSQUES.
The media outlets have sold our nation to the highest bidder which for now appears to be the Wahhabis. While lying to the world that the terrorists have hijacked their religion they spent billions of petro-dollars world wide and even here in the US to spread propaganda that the 911 was an inside job. Actually they spread two propagandas hope each will have its own life. The first, the CIA did it and the second, Israel did it. The Wahhabi petro dollars bought many universities, media outlets, black liberation theologizes like rev Wright and consequently all their followers which could include Barak Hussein Obama.
It is a very sad day when on the day we are remembering 911 the media asks the wrong questions and reports the results contributing to giving the propaganda a new life. The questions asked by the media are:
Do you thing that 911 was a CIA job?
Do you think that 911 was carried by Israel?
Do you think that the terrorists hijacked Islam?
These questions are very inappropriate and offensive to our nation, to our flag and to everything America represents. These reporters are traitors who are either too dumb to know what they are doing to our nation or they have sold their own nation. They have the audacity to report propaganda results like "30% of the people asked believed that it was a CIA job, 30% believe it was carried by Israel, 30% believe that it was the Islamic terrorists and 10% do not know."
How pathetic is this, a bunch of traitors call themselves reporters. If they had asked me my answer would have been "It was done by a bunch of Muslims representing all Muslims who celebrated in the streets of most Muslim cities as they rejoiced and watched in amusement as the planes hit the towers." In Lebanon, Hezbollah declared it a victory for all Islam and they gave away candy and baklava to celebrate the latest Islamic victory.
"I dont spread mis-information about Islam, to do that, I think I have to know a little bit more about Islam than I do now."
Posted by: ignorancewillkillusall at September 12, 2008 12:18 AM
It taskes a big person to admit that they are wanting in comprehension of what Islam really is.
Unfortunately, this same person passed judgement on all here, even in light of her self-proclaimed deficiency in the understanding of the subject matter.
A European leftists, riddled with and addled by PC propoganda seems quite accurate in my estimation.
A friendly word of advice since you were speaking of "converting"...that path is a one way street. Caveat emptor.
What exactly is a moderate Muslim?
Bridgett Gabriel: "A moderate Muslim is a non-practicing Muslim. A non-practicing or non-devout Muslim is a man who doesn't pray 5 times a day, does drink alcohol, doesn't attend a mosque regularly, believes he is equal to all other people and God's creation. Does not believe that Apostates should be killed. He believes that people have the freedom to chose what religion they want to belong to. He does not believe that Jihad should be declared on non Muslims until they convert or pay the Jizya. He believes that gays should not be killed according to Sharia Law even if he disagrees with their lifestyle. He believes that his wife is his equal and is entitled to the same respect and education as any other man; that she is not his property according to the Koran; that she should not be covered from head to toe or even wear a hijab; that he does not have the right to beat her just because he is a man and she is a woman, that Jews are his equals in the eyes of God.
Most moderate Muslims do not know the real teaching of the Koran and many of them have never read it. In debates between the moderates and the radicals about the Koran, the radical always win the arguments because Islamic law is on their side. They can quote you chapter and verse from the Koran to support their arguments while the moderates just sit speechless not knowing how to respond."
islamic terrorism is a myth; don't think so, it is islamists following the teachings of islam and it's profitt, hate, human rights abuse, murder and yes even child molestation are all part of the pure unadultrated islam of mohammed. The truth is the so called moderate muslim is a backslidden follower, there is no moderate and even the ones who claim to be so, cheer, clap and celebrate the real islamists who kill as many innocents as they can to further their taking over the world and making islam supreme. If only the silent majority would admit it, we could begin the battle that is going to come and get it over with.
ignorancewillkillusall,
How ironic that this poster is from Europe, on a day that remembers one of the victories for Christian Europe, September 12th, 1683.
This is a couple days late, but for what it's worth...
"These statements refute the post-Sept. 11 efforts of all hard-working, loyal Muslim-Americans who have denounced terrorism from all groups and in all forms."
Saqib A. Zubari, LLB, LLM, from the article.
Except for this one article, I haven't seen anything by a practicing Muslim believer condemning the jihadist motivations of the 9/11 hijackers, and even here Zubari misses the mark. He just couldn't resist portraying himself and his coreligionists as somehow being victims, too. Sorry. A single insincere article like this can't even begin to make up for seven years of silence by the Islamic world on the 9/11 tragedy. In 2001 "taqiyya" was a new word for most of us. Not any more.
With all due respect for those who believe moderate Muslims exist or those that believe that they are moderate Muslim.
If a moderate Muslim does not renounce Islam and change his/her name to a non Muslim name he could be as bad as any Jihadist. Here is why, suppose a moderate Muslim marries another moderate Muslim in a western country like US or UK. Their children will be Muslims too and sooner or later will attend Mosques that will indoctrinate them (brain washing them) to hate and kill non Muslims or infidels. Their children are likely to be suicide bombers like we have seen the children of moderate Muslims in the UK.
As you can see, in this case the moderate Muslims contribute to Jihad, to hatred, killings just like any extreme Muslims do. A moderate Muslim is nothing but a sleep cell unless he/she renounces Islam and changes their names to non Muslim names.