No new mosques, says Italy's Northern League

Because "mosques can be used to 'spread hatred for the West.'"

Can anyone honestly dispute that assertion? --RS

Not anyone who knows anthing about Islam.

Come on, Italy, keep it up!

Oriana Fallaci rules!

Fallaci's family-memoir "A Hat Full of Cherries" was recently published by Rizzoli. It is a family memoir, going back several generations, and not about Islam. But, obliquely, readers are reminded of what Italy -- or the parts of Italy in which her grandparents lived -- were like, what the rhythms and details of life were like, before the "progress" Italians see all about them, and despair -- see the birth-rates -- today.

And much of that despair has to do with the extracomunitari, the non-Italians who flood into Italy, a very few engaged in legal work, others -the wandering tribe of Vu Cumpra (You'll Buy?) selling their trashy fakes at every tourist destination, or the drug dealers, prostitutes, and other petty criminals all over the place. Not all of them are Muslims. There are great problems with illegals from Rumania and Albania, and also with the Gypsies. But the greatest problem of all is that of the Muslims who keep flooding in, and against whom the most elementary measures of self-defense, such as those described in the article above, cannot be taken without a terrific political battle against the "buonismo" -- the goody-goodyness, of too many who have made blind, unthinking, uncriticcal "tolerance" into an Article of Faith, even when what is being "tolerated" are the bearers of an ideology that Mussolini very likely, and Hitler most certainly, found most appealing, most admirable.

Even Fallaci's memoir of Italy-in-the-old-days, can heighten awareness of what was then present, and what then was absent.

"...even when what is being "tolerated" are the bearers of an ideology that Mussolini very likely, and Hitler most certainly, found most appealing, most admirable. --Hugh

As Fascism and Naziism should not be "tolerated," neither should Islam, a kindred ideology.

Italy is fighting a rapidly increasing Muslim presence by introducing a bill to block construction of Islamic mosques and prohibit minarets, or prayer watchtowers, and loudspeaker chants.

And requiring mosque sermons be delivered in Italian is a very strong message to the congregation: No more hate speech against our Western values and civilization.

Bravo Italia!

It is good to see a vision of the end of the era of treating sedition and incitement with mere polite discomfort and moral ambiguity. Unabashed revolt by the populace is looming; the tepid corrections of the "moderates" has been insufficient, and will seal their fate. Local Islamic edifices will be razed as in Verona if Muslims don't start immediately cleaning house and becoming transparent in their activities and financing. These same Muslims should welcome government restrictions if they don't have the stomach to do it themselves.

"In 2001, the U.S. Treasury department dubbed a major mosque in Milan as "the main al-Qaida station house in Europe.""

Yet, all the Feds are blind to what is happening here, in the US mosques! I don't know whether to laugh or cry.

Because mosques ARE used to spread hatred against the West.

And for plotting acts of terror and weapons storage.

The criminal hate monger who is commiteeing prejury by spread the lie about mosques are speading hatred against the west, you racist are the one speading hatred against the west. I than going to write to my congress to have trade santune place on anything make in Northern Italy.

DOI,

Perjury? How so? by spreading the utmost truth about what happens in the zombie command posts?

You, sir or madam, are quite full of horse$hit. How are you going to write to your "congress" for sanctions against Northern Italy?

But go ahead, write your letter to your Paki/Iranian/whatever "congress". It will go directly into the circular file, where it rightly belongs.

Brava Italia indeed. Let's hope this is the beginning of the beginning of the fight back to reclaim the enLIGHTenment values!

"But the greatest problem of all is that of the Muslims who keep flooding in, and against whom the most elementary measures of self-defense, such as those described in the article above, cannot be taken without a terrific political battle against the "buonismo" -- the goody-goodyness, of too many who have made blind, unthinking, uncriticcal "tolerance" into an Article of Faith, even when what is being "tolerated" are the bearers of an ideology that Mussolini very likely, and Hitler most certainly, found most appealing, most admirable. "

Powerful stuff....and entirely true..

Hey DOI, have you ever been to the Al Farooq Mosque in Brooklyn, New York?

"Worshippers at Al Farooq are told, "If a person says I believe in Allah alone and confirms the truth of everything from Muhammad, except in his forbidding fornication, he becomes a disbeliever. For that, it would be lawful for Muslims to spill his blood and to take his money."

The Brooklyn mosque was a favorite of Sheik Omar Abdel Rahman, the blind sheik ringleader of the 1993 bombing of the World Trade Center, on his fund-raising tours in the late 1980s. Several co-conspirators in the Landmark bomb plot (whose targets were the United Nations and New York City's tunnels) also used Al Farooq as a safe meeting place."

The criminal hate monger who is commiteeing[sic] prejury[sic] by spread[sic] the[sic] lie[sic] about mosques are speading hatred against the west, you racist[sic] are the one[sic] speading hatred against the west. I than[sic] going to write to my congress to have trade santune[sic] place[sic] on anything make[sic] in Northern Italy. Posted by: DefenderofIslam

Hasn't this troll exceeded his usefulness here?

Italians know history. They live history. Rome is the heart of Christianity, just like Jerusalem is the heart of Judaism and Kashmir is the heart of Hinduism. They know that Muslims show up in other religions' holy places, claim that Perv Mo took a piss nearby, and proclaim it 'Islam 7th most holy site' or whatever. Every terror organization wants to take Rome. It's fundamental to their long-term plans. I can't stand the idea of Muslims being anywhere near Rome, given Muslims' penchant for destroying religious places and relics and for committing cultural genocide wherever they can. Worst of all, they expect Italy to just hand them over some 1500-year-old churches so they can Hagia Sofi-ify them. Talk about deluded entitlement.

Islam isn't even recognized as a religion in Italy, not because it isn't a religion, which it isn't, but because all religions are required to have a representative council first, and Muslims have been unable to convene a group of six Muslims deemed 'representative' who will renounce genocide/jihad, acknowledge and support Israel, and agree to conduct services in Italian. They've been trying for almost 7 years and still no luck.

And la Lega Nord is right that mosques are places for breeding hatred. Since Islam's inception mosques have never been anything more than places for the brainwashing of the masses of Friday, as well as the incitement of lynchings against Christians in Jews as we see every Friday in Egypt, hubs for sleeper cells the rest of the week, and a way to fund terror with some transperency (zakat).

Let them rape children, support the Taliban, and drink halal Israeli blood in Albania.

Oh and Hugh, Oriana Fallaci lived through all the bad years. I have yet to read the book, but you make it sound as if she preferred screwed-up, end of-'Catch-22'-Italy to Italy today. My mother's family couldn't take it and left in 1950. It didn't get much better until the mid-70s. But Oriana loved Italy them because it was Italian, and now multiculturalism, particularly that of the Muslim sort, undermines every single Italian tradition and value.

"The Muslims refuse our culture and try to impose their culture on us. I reject them, and this is not only my duty toward my culture-it is toward my values, my principles, my civilization."

"The moment you give up your principles, and your values, you are dead, your culture is dead, your civilization is dead. Period."

"you make it sound as if she preferred screwed-up, end of-'Catch-22'-Italy to Italy today."
-- from a posting above

You must have misunderstood. Her book, Il Cappello Pieno di Ciliegi, is about her ancestors, and especially her nineteenth-century relatives. It is not about the Ventennio, not about the post-war period and the country working itself out of poverty, not Il Boom, not the slow decline that followed, and not the disastrous situation of today, with family enterprises closing up one by one in the face of undercutting and ruthless Chinese competition, and the immigrant (and especially Muslim immigrant) problem, including the Vu Cumpra, and a political leadership that makes one long not merely for De Gasperi, but even for Amintore Fanfani. As for the newspapers, Montanelli is no longer around to instruct in Il Giornale or in his "Stanza" column in the Corriere, and those who have taken his place are not quite the same, especially on those history lessons he used to provide, in answer to questions. Not just Montanelli, but all kinds of people who were journalists of a caliiber now much rarer, such as the writer Dino Buzzati, or those who wrote for Il Giornale when Montanelli ran it, such as Manlio Cancogni.

Autres temps, autres moeurs. Now Berlusconi passes for a "conservative" while he makes billion-dollar "reparations" deals with Khaddafy, and on the left....well, even the Communists have come down a lot since the days of the elegant Berlinguer.

"The Muslims refuse our culture and try to impose their culture on us. I reject them, and this is not only my duty toward my culture-it is toward my values, my principles, my civilization."

"The moment you give up your principles, and your values, you are dead, your culture is dead, your civilization is dead. Period."
-- from a posting above, quoting Oriana Fallaci

This should be read out by someone at the Republican Convention, or during the campaign. It won't be -- but it should.

Constitutional rights only apply to non-Muslims? 258 registered mosques serves an average of 4,641 people per? There are many mosques that serve less than a few hundred people in the U.S. Since when do others dictate how many people should be serviced by building a mosque, church or synagogue. How many synagogues exist in Italy compared to worshippers?

While I support the church on many matters; their desire to support the violation the constitutional rights of Muslims shows how the church is not congruent with their own government. Should the church now be considered ‘extreme’ by the populous, better yet, by the government? What about a sense of separation of church and state, is this not accepted as part of Italy’s understanding of democracy?

Another thing that boldly disturbs me, Italy is to the U.S. what Muslims are to Mexicans. They have the audacity today to state that immigration is a problem, when they have no qualms with their colonialist past in respective Muslim/Mexican lands. What a shame in perspective. 5pillar.wordpress.com

Since when do others dictate how many people should be serviced by building a mosque, church or synagogue. How many synagogues exist in Italy compared to worshippers?

Since when have Israeli synagogues in the diaspora served as terrorist recruiting offices? Have you read the literature in some of these mosques? These Muslims brought this on themselves. They are lucky to have mosques at all, should shut up, take their lumps and become members of the human race.

...their desire to support the violation the constitutional rights of Muslims shows how the church is not congruent with their own government.

I missed the church here. This is an Italian political parties stance. Perhaps a sense of nationalistic self determinism and desire for security cannot be vanquished by mere window dressings of protected religious status of the mosques?

What about a sense of separation of church and state, is this not accepted as part of Italy’s understanding of democracy?

Funny you should say that, Mr. Pillars. Let's strip Islam of its political ideology and aspirations, shall we?

They have the audacity today to state that immigration is a problem, when they have no qualms with their colonialist past in ...Muslim lands.

What, are you still pissed off about Libya, circa 1911? Like you've done anything with it since you got it back. Didn't they build you some highways, and then apologized and paid a bunch of jizya? What more do you want...oh, to be able to infiltrate Italy with slow jihad migratory baby factories to develop a fifth column. No thanks. They'll keep their audacity.

5pillar.wordpress.com

Visited your site. Hey, I like that picture of the red painted boy next to McCartney. I looked at several versions of it. Mohammed Zaanoun, Gaza stringer photographer, 2006, right? Notice how the neck "wounds" run down the face (with no coagulation) to the left as though he had been hanging inverted, but the right arm hand "wound" bled up the arm to the elbow. Gravity works strangely sometimes, doesn't it? Also, nice photogenic true red, as though fresh, and not one speck on the carrier's shirt from any angle, even though he is repositioning the "corpse" for photographic effect between shots. That could almost be a ScotchGuard commercial. Hurray for Pallywood! Viva al-Dura!!

Bravo, Italia!! Bellisimo!!

Italy' Lega Nord are the best political party in Europe, but still too moderate.

European's should no only be banning mosque building, they should be actively challenging Islam by banning it altogeher. We need to challenge Islam by banning halal, prosecuing people wo sell it and undermine sharia by making sharia banking, sharia hotels and sharia compliant dress-codes illegal.

Preventing mosque buildng is a good start, but it should just be the beginning. We need to reverse Islamization, challenge it and start undermining it. Hopefully, Muslims will then choose to leave or will at least stop undermining Western culture, democracy and values.

We all have the right to live in a non-Islamic culture. It is our politicans who are helping Islam spread, encouraging Islamization and destroying our rights to live as free, democratic citizens.

5PillarScribe, Italy is officially a Catholic country. There has never been separation of Church and state. As I explained, the Muslim community is to blame for their lack of representation.

Stefcho, you're right about la Lega Nord being the best political party in Europe. They've gotten better over the years too. They were founded on the 'pay to play' principle. I love that. Of course, Italy has felt the weight of the ridiculous welfare state long before the rest of Europe. Give them a few years, if it's not too late by then.

A good first step, Italy! But it should really be "no new mosLEMS", not just "no new mosQUES".

Can we do this here (US)? There's that darned Establishment clause!

Still, the Supreme Court banned the Mormon "Celestrial" marriages (polygamy).

Defining a religion is tricky, but is Islam really a religion? Even if it is, it is so unlike any other religion that banning it would be like banning the sacrificial ceremonies of the ancient Aztecs.

While I support the church on many matters; their desire to support the violation the constitutional rights of Muslims shows how the church is not congruent with their own government. Should the church now be considered ‘extreme’ by the populous, better yet, by the government? What about a sense of separation of church and state, is this not accepted as part of Italy’s understanding of democracy? Posted by: 5PillarScribe

The “constitutional rights of Muslims” as private individuals are not violated. Their ‘rights’ to spread hatred and mayhem per their Cult’s founder is criminal activity and unprotected by any constitutional rights of any nation. Violent criminal activities are not protected by constitutional rights. Nor are treasonous infiltration to undermine our constitutional rights, which is a contradiction. Why should any state grant special privilege to any internal organization that seeks to dismantle the state? Since Muslims desire this, with their Sharia, they are hostile to constitutional rights, which means Muslims are themselves undermining their legal protection as private individuals. Muslims are their own worst enemy. And they blow up. Why would we want them living with us?

Whether or not Islam’s mosques represent a religion is problematic, since Islam is a politico-quasi-religious belief system designed to conquer all in its path, and to subdue other cultures for their Cult of Allah, as defined by their founder. Islam’s resultant Sharia law contradicts all human values of personal freedom and responsibility, such as protected by constitutional law, so is hostile to our natural freedoms and human rights. Wherever Sharia rules, Muslims live in abject poverty and social backwardness, lack real education, suffer from perpetual self-inflicted ‘victimhood’, kill their daughters and wives for ‘honor’, practice genital mutilation of female children, enslave children and foreign labor, practice barbaric stoning to death of homosexuals and alleged adulterers, rape women and then kill the rape victims, capture people for ransom, practice beheadings, so their societies live in a perpetual state of barbarism of the 7th century, even today. When present in modern western societies, they practice their criminal jihad when able, support jihad terrorist Islamic organizations either overtly or covertly, are a general nuisance to their host nations, are disrespectful of local culture, press for concessions whenever able, seek to impose unconstitutional Sharia whenever possible, are arrogant in their self delusional ‘supremacy’ over the local populations, have hideous disrespect for women, and scam the system for extra welfare payments while they over breed their multiple wives for cash advantage. Why should anyone consider this ‘religion’ a religion at all? It acts more like a politically inclined religio-cult than any of the known world religions. Perhaps it is time to redefine Islam as NOT at religion, but call it by what it really is: Islam is a hostile CULT. So why should this hostile Cult’s mosques, or ‘masjids’ in Arabic, be granted the same privilege as are temples and churches of other religions? What has Islam done in reciprocal manner to warrant any kind of recognition as an equal religion to others? How many Catholic churches or Buddhist temples exist in Saudi Arabia, for example? How many in other Arab Muslim states? How many Hindu temples to accommodate worshippers of Indian origin in Mecca and Medina, or any part of the land of Saud?

If Islam accepts itself as hostile to us and our freedoms, a 7th century socio-political superstition-driven belief system mandated to impose itself on all cultures in the world, then we should accept that as a given, and reciprocate in kind: NO MORE MOSQUES.

It's nice to hear this kind of good news now and then, however difficult it may be to keep terms like "too little, too late" from crowding into one's mind.

And of course a de rigueur crying down and execration can be expected to set in, as with Denmark's immigration policies. The faceless bureaucrats running Eurabia know when their program is being challenged, or chipped away at.

We can hope, though, that the future holds more attempts to reclaim the West. Can't live without hope.

It may be constitutionally difficult to ban Islam, but there are existing laws, fully constitutional, that can be applied against Moslems, their places of assembly, and their associations. For example, the hate-crime laws could be used to imprison any imam whose preaching amounts to inciting, aiding, and abetting attacks against non-Moslems; and to close down any mosque where such preaching takes place. Likewise, shut down any mosque or association promulgating hate literature against non-Moslems, and arrest its officials. Get the IRS busy investigating the books of tax-exempt Islamic "charities". Apply the RICO laws, and the money-laundering laws. Monitor Islamic day-care centers, and pre-schools, and close those found instilling hatred in the children. And declare the parents unfit, and remove the children from their care.
All of these suggestions have been applied against other groups, such as the Scientologists, the Branch Davidians, and the old-style Mormons in Texas. They can be appied to the Moslems just as easily.

All of these suggestions have been applied against other groups, such as the Scientologists, the Branch Davidians, and the old-style Mormons in Texas. They can be appied to the Moslems just as easily.
Posted by: ebonystone

Easily done to others, so why not to the Islamic Cult as well? Separation of church and state, which also means mosque and state, applies to all cults equally, where none are protected by law. Islam's Cult of Allah warrants no protection, so their mosques are not to be awarded the same protection offered to all other religious temples and churches. This can be done easily, by simply applying existing laws, as mentioned, and no one Muslim's individual rights had been violated. The constitutional laws are against the coercive collective Cult, represented by jihad and sharia law. Close them down, or bulldozz them, once they violate our constitutional laws and individual rights. It's been done before, there is legal precedence, as mentioned.

Guys, Islam really isn't a religion. Even Muslims know that. That's why they say 'it's a way of life.' That explains its cult practices, but that does not explain how it possibly fall under the 'religion' heading. Religions, by definition, cannot deny the existence of the Golden Rule. Religions, by definition, base their teachings and practices in morality. Islam does not have one single moral teaching. Sure, it has some which sound semi-moral, but they do not apply universally and are therefore immoral. Most of those are abrogated Meccan verses anyway, and if they're not instructions which only apply within the cult (before Perv Mo became obsessed with kafirs), then they are only instructions as to how to appear moral, not be moral. Hinduism isn't a religion either, even sans caste system, because of all its misogyny.

It is, however, a cult and a political movement and a very dangerous one at that.

Furthermore, Mo was a false prophet. He was below subhuman for more reasons than I care to go into here, but he also produced neither prophecy nor miracles and messed up every single historical and scientific reference he ever made on the record, and most of the mathematical references as well.

Nazism claimed a theological basis, a very similar one at that (their evil 'God' had his chosen people who were to kill the najis), as Hitler modeled Mein Kampf on the Koran. Islam's theological basis is if anything more ridiculous, and Islam is unarguably more intolerable than Nazism. Islam can and should be outlawed just like communism was during the cold war.

Bravo, except....

The same law could probably be used to forbid new Protestant Churches and to forbid international sojourners from worshipping in English, Chinese, or Korean.

Why? Protestantism is a legitimate religion, as it bases its teachings in the Golden Rule. Why would new Protestant churches be forbidden? Are Protestants violent separatist supremacists who seek to undermine and destroy their host society or which obligates its followers to kill and slay, or to keep women in a state of perpetual sex slavery? All those Protestant churches that turn out to be sleeper cells where they incite lynchings and preach treasonous sedition? Our country was founded on Protestantism. And the Bible never says to worship in any particular language. America has no laws regarding which language can be used where, when, or by whom. That comment made zero sense.

jdamn: My comments were about the Italian Northern League's proposals re new mosques. Until fairly recent decades, the position of Protestants in Italy was sometimes a bit dicey.

As many here know, I hold no candle for Islam (I am a Christian of the Reformed/Presbyterian persuasion--Gereformeerde to any Nederlands speakers around). But, if the Muslims open a mosque and teach their people to keep halal, or even ARGUE with (rather than kill) us kufr, I'm fine with it. If they incite something unlawful, charge them under the appropriate laws.

Besides, some of us Protestant Christians really do find homosexuality ugly and disgusting; to say nothing of sinful (I refer you to both Moses and Paul). There are people who would charge us with hate speech simply for saying it; and a law like the Italian Northern League's sets a bad precedent that could be applied in other situations.

No it doesn't. Renouncing homosexuality is not the same thing as obligating the murder of homosexuals, and certainly not the same thing as refusing to recognize Israel. Italy requires that all services be held in Italian. Protestants have never had any problem complying. Muslims can't even get recognized as a religion in Italy because they refuse to hold services in Italian, refuse to recognize Israel, and refuse to renounce jihad. Real religions have never taken any issue with complying with those very sane, very basic laws. If they were to allow the building of mosques, that would set a bad precedent. You have it exactly backward.