Pakistani TV denounces Ahmadis as infidels, not Muslims

Rage Boy has a rival. Clean shaven too.

Naseem and her family will probably stay in Britain.

The religion of perpetual rage and anger. A diabolical and malevolent ideology. Sick to the core just like its prophet Mohammad and its god allah. Blood thirsty and maniacs, perverted sex addicts and lusting for young girls and boys as is in their heaven. What a joke.

Islam, the crazy sick man of the world.

Some countries inherited the whole anglo-protestant common law tradition, and didn't learn a damned thing.

Naseem, if I was you, stay put in the UK.

A previous article on the Ahmadis at JW, nearly three years old:

The Ahmadiyya under fire in Pakistan (Oct. 7, 2005)

From the AP:

"Assailants with assault rifles attacked a mosque belonging to a small Muslim sect in eastern Pakistan early Friday, killing at least eight people and wounding 19, police and a doctor said.
The attack on the mosque belonging to Ahmadiyya sect happened in the village of Mong, about 240 miles northeast of Multan, a main city in the eastern Punjab province, said Mohammed Arif, an area police officer.
"So far we only know that three men riding on a motorcycle suddenly came in the village Friday morning. Two of them went inside the mosque and started firing," he said.
Masood Ahmed Raja, a cardiologist who belongs to the Ahmadiyya sect, told The Associated Press in a telephone interview that he was going to the Baitul Hamad mosque when he saw three masked men fleeing on a motorcycle.

"I had no idea who these men were, but when I reached the mosque, I heard cries and saw blood everywhere," he said. "I don't know who attacked our mosque, but it seems to be an act of religious terrorism."

The Sunni and Shi’a mainstream consider Mirza Ghulam Ahmad, the founder of the Ahmadiyya, a heretic. His claim to prophethood contradicts basic Islamic tenets and thus renders his followers susceptible to attack.
____________________________________

Two postings underneath:

“The members of the Ahmadiyya group are, by and large, and here and there only slightly, better educated, less closed to the big world, the real world, than other Muslims. After all, they, like have managed, despite mental straitjacket that Islam provides, to reject important parts of Islam, including a reduced role for Muhammad who is no longer seen as the Last, the Seal, of the Prophets (cf. in the United States, the Prophet Elijah Muhammad, whose followers are not regarded by Al Azhar as real Muslims, though they would no doubt be surprised to hear of their lowly status in the eyes of "real" Muslims).

Only two “Muslims” have won Nobel Przies in the hard sciences. Aside from Ahmad Zuwail (an Egyptian who lives and works in America, and won a prize in Chemistry) a Nobel Prize in physics was awarded to Abdus Salam, a physicist, a member of the Ahmadiyya sect. One wonders if, had he been the other kind, the full-fledged kind, of Muslim, that he would have possessed a sufficient ability to maneuver in the world of uncertainty, and free inquiry, that the undertaking of science requires.

Imagine, with some sympathy, how difficult it must be to live in a Muslim society. At what stage do the handful of people who fight their way out mentally from that society declare themselves, and to whom? Isn't it far easier, and safer, to say nothing, but occasionally to indicate, by a word here or there, one's own distance from the True Believers, and should one encounter non-Muslims, to both wish to daringly show a little of that leg (intellectually speaking), by speaking not quite respectfully of Islam, but at the same time, out of filial piety and inherited distaste, born of all sorts of things (envy, anger, even that essential hostility to all things non-Muslim that comes with a Muslim mother's milk), if that Infidel himself offers any criticism of Islam, there is a counter-desire to immediately rally round the Green Flag of Islam, and engage in whatever taqiyya-and-tu-quoque nonsense comes to hand to fend off the disrespectful Infidel. An amazing mental show -- one you can experience for yourself, any day of the week, by merely engaging in conversation about Islam any outwardly advanced and Westernized and seemingly rational and affable Muslim. Just record (perhaps even surreptitiously tape) the results. It is fascinating -- could be the subject of a book or two: "How Muslims Think." Or you could simply visit the websites of ex-Muslims such as www.faithfreedom.org, where such matters are frequently discussed.

The Ahmadiyya are regarded by "real" Muslims as Infidels, though they themselves are horrified at that designation. After all, they, or their ancestors who became members of the sect, did not leave Islam altogether -- did not become, for example, Christians. That would involve real willingness to suffer for the faith.

Ahmadiyya Muslims are not limited to Pakistan. They have been successful missionaries missionaries in Africa, where the more easygoing version of Islam, until the Saudis started making their own calculated and sinister investments, was well received.

It is too much to ask of people within the totalitarianism of Islam to be brave, to openly leave the faith. But it is not too much to ask them not to participate, either in Internet discussions with the outside, or in the secret meeting-room of their own conscience, not to tell themselves the truth about Islam.
Ahmadiyya Islam is akin to Cro-Magnon
man: a step up on the phylogenetic scale from the Pithecanthropus erectus of primitive unreformed Islam, but not quite there yet.

The next obvious move is out of Islam altogether. After all, if one is going to be persecuted as an Infidel even if one thinks of oneself as an (Ahmadiyya) "Muslim," why bother to remain connected to Islam at all? Why not to fresh fields, and pastures new?

[Posted by: Hugh at October 7, 2005 8:19 AM]

______________________________________________

From an Ahamdi, "Naseem":

"Hello all,

I was out talking to my friends discussing what we were gonna do tonite when another came & told us of this dastradly and cowardly attack.
I know that many of you will have a smug smile & laugh (like Voletti who believes in payback) but believe me when I tell you that an attack on the Ahmadi in Pak is different to an attack on infedels in the West.

How? you will protests, people have died, and maimed. But it is the after effects and the support that is vastly different.

In the West the emergency services get together and help the injured and try to catch the perpetrators....no such help is available for the Ahmadi.

While the PAK police may outwardly express concern, nothing is ever done, no one is caught and cases ramain open....that is if an FIR (police report) is (allowed to be) raised in the 1st place.

The Punjab police have enormous power, with a flick of the hand your ability to raise an FIR is gone. Complain to a superior officer and you will pay ......big time and big style. There have been cases reported that " a big spontaneous crowd gathers outside a house...residents are dragged and beaten, a hand or finger cut...no police is seen or heard...and your house could be flamed".
Will anything be done, anyone caught...NO it's already known to us. Tomorrow it could be our mosque in Lahore, there have been bombs gone off in Lahore just a few days ago.

Why does Allah (swt) allow this to happen?....it is a test for the chosen Ahmadi...you have to persevere...to run the course...at least that is what my friends say....but me I am starting to have my doubts.

For example, the blood sucking sunni says he is chosen, the self-styled suicide Ali believer Shai says he is the chosen. The Borhas say they are the chosen ones, the Ahmadi say they are the chosen ones...but WHO decides on the chosen one.
Well that is what the Chaliphate would do....only that our Calipha already is the chosen one...but the Borhas say that too for their Chaliphate. And the Shia and sunni say...only on judgement day matey....the cahiphate WILL be there, so lets take everybody there, Hamda-dilla it is FARD, we will be saved. Well I say F**K them and their judgement day, I'm happy enough with my Caliphate, and he does not preach hatred.
That these bas*ards will get to Lahore....no doubt. How long will Naseem be around to put her perspective to you?..Allah Ta'ala will decide...but Inshalallah....I will not run.
Yesterday..... Yesterday, I was asking you to chill.. today ....although hot there is a chill here.

[Posted by: Naseem at October 7, 2005 10:33 AM]

The Religion of Peace rarely disappoints.

This is truly an evil ideology, without redeeming social value.

It has to be an especially sad time for Western muslims who would appear to have little choice: leave the faith or be saddled with the baggage of that fool and evil man, Mohammed.

Ecce homo.

Lord God, what a face! Is that a he-Muslim, or a she-Muslim? It's a wonder they don't all drop dead of apoplexy.

Continuous muslim infighting may be islam's greatest weakness. Woe to the world if islam ever truly becomes united.

It's the hyprocrisy that get's me.

They say, the WEST is racist,, but they cannot see it,, within their own religion. They discriminate even amonst their own "believers".

There can NEVER be peace in islam,, it just isn't designed to be that way.

They are like abnoxious drunks in bars,, RAHHH RAHHH RAHHH!! Disagree with the drunk, he punches you out.

watta savage way to live a life,,

(at least drunks can be cured).

solsticewitch13

I thought of Naseem the first thing too.
Just crazy to hate to the extent they do.
RoP® my a$$.

I believe that awhile back RS said there was no "Naseem." That "she" was an obvious male fake. And was eventually outed as this on a thread. Can't remember which one.

We don't want Naseem in the UK. Naseem spent years telling us how wonderful Islam is, and its time she was sent back to Pakistan one way just to experience how tolerant it is.

Our friendly chap in the picture reminds me of the ape with the bone in Kubrick's 2001. Unbridled fury and lust to destroy.

The missing link!

"It is too much to ask of people within the totalitarianism of Islam to be brave, to openly leave the faith."
by Hugh

WHY?

Is that a beardless Rage Boy or his ugly twin sister? These pathetic lunatics squander more emotion than any people on the planet. I wonder how it feels to be perpetually enraged over NOTHING?!

You would think the extraordinary stress they subject themselves to would result in debilitating health consequences, especially when combined with the intense heat, but you never see them dropping dead from heat stroke or heart attacks after they agitate themselves into maniacal frenzies.

Of all the many legitimate, pressing problems that exist in the islamic netherworld, they persecute and murder people who believe differently. There is no hope for these incorrigible maniacs; they are doomed to live and die consumed with misery, rage, and hate.

Remember Churchill?

That's what he meant when he wrote about the "fanatical frenzy, more dangerous than hydrophobia in a dog..."

If you haven't seen it live you have missed something. I've experienced it on several occasions, and I consider myself to be as lucky as that legendary old bass to be alive.

You heard about the one who got away...?

dgene,
You wrote that islam "is truly an evil ideology, without redeeming social value." I think the next logical step is to realize that bush's mission to bring "freedom and democracy" to the iraqi people is pure folly. If that's not a bridge too far, then I don't know what is.

About the Ahmadis, Hugh wrote, "The next obvious move is out of Islam altogether. After all, if one is going to be persecuted as an Infidel even if one thinks of oneself as an (Ahmadiyya) 'Muslim,' why bother to remain connected to Islam at all? Why not to fresh fields, and pastures new?" Seems to me that advice applies here, as well.

In countries such as Pakistan, such theological differences are not settled through civil debate. Instead, most Muslims view Ahmadis as heretics worthy of harassment, or even open murder.
....................................

Are Mormons Christian? How about Jehovah's Witnesses? The Unification Church? Are members of "Jews for Jesus" Jewish, or are they just Christian converts?

I *did not* post this so we could have an actual debate about this. Many people consider some or all of these groups to be Christian, or to have Christian elements, or to be completely non-Christian. The point is that, whatever their views, *no* mainstream Christians--Catholics, Baptists, Anglicans, etc--are calling for these people's deaths for heresy.

Unlike Muslims, we got over that particular brand of insanity several centuries ago.

It's all good. They can all kill each other and go to hell.

Let alla sort them out.

I just hope that noone in the West starts handing out asylum papers based on all this violence.

There are always loonie libs in the West who jump at any chance to bring more Third Worlders into our lands.

All I see is people with plenty of energy to devote to destructive things yet unwilling to work for a living.

We should not be the ones to make up for their lack of willingness to work by feeding them.

Hello all,

I am Naseem, wanting to comment at least on the topic of my faith in trouble. I hope that Marisol does not ban me simply because “she can”.

As for this despicable event…”two peoples belonging to a minority religious sect (Ahmadi) in Pak were murdered shortly after a broadcaster (“Dr” Amir Liaqat) on channel GEO urged viewers to kill “blasphemers” and “apostates” as a religious duty.

Ironically, this “jewel of Islam” was discovered during the period that passed by the name of “Enlightened Moderation”, and was embedded in the ministry of religious affairs

This lund is a cheat, & a liar, he lied about his degrees, he sometimes lies about religion, like the televangelists in the Amerike. He is a dangerous fanatic who should not be on the air, let alone promoted like this.

Does he not know that Ahmadi Muslims were among the founders of Pakistan when the Mullahs opposed Qaid-e-Azam (Jinnah). His closeness to the Ahmadi jamaat is well documented- after all the first foreign minister of Pakistan was an Ahmadi .

An Ahmadi (Dr. Mannan) was killed was serving an interior area which is already deprived of many other things and that was one of the few gems they got. So what he was Ahmedi, he was serving humanity at large.

May Allah SWT bless Dr. Mannan’s soul…All he wanted was to serve his country. He could have just stayed in the Amerike and enjoyed a very lucrative career and a comfortable (Mullah free even) life…but the poor guy wanted to serve the people of his country who he thought would not be served otherwise…

So much for GEO’s slogan about ‘live and let live’. I am just thinking about the magnitude of Dr. Mannan’s sacrifice. He was a practicing cardiologist in the States who went to Tharparkar to “live there” and build a hospital for the locals. Treated countless people in the last 15 years and this is what he gets in the end: 11 bullets piercing his body in broad daylight while he was seeing his patients.

I think Pak will NOT make much progress until the Ahmadi issue is settled peacefully. It is surprising that on the one hand Pakistanis pride themselves (in practice) in having copied almost everything that is Western, they don’t even pretend to follow them in their good values such as internal human rights standards/internal unity; such as the UN charter and human rights declaration documents, which Pakistan has ratified and to which it is signatory.

Pak cannot open the question of constitutionality of declaring Ahmadies non-muslims. It was not done solely by Mullah. Instead it was decision taken by a Constitutional Assembly where all political parties of Pakistan were represented. Prominent leaders such as Ali Bhutto, Wali Khan, and so many others were there and matter was discussed thoroughly there and then it was decided. The lead was taken by people like Pirzada and Yahya Bukhtiar as legal team.

I think of them like the Talibans …but in Suits and Ties.Pak can reap what it sows. If they are happy in the current situation then by all means carry on….no doubt Allah SWT has a way of sorting out the mess.

You may ban me because you don’t like what I say….but already what I has said 3 years ago is coming true.

Let me say this…do not laugh at us Ahmadi….tomorrow in your countries there will be many Amir Liaqats’ on air…only Ahmadi will be small fry…they will want to address the kuffar….but voicing criticism against Islam will be banned…you will be labelled as blasphemers…like we are today.

Naseem2 - are you the original Naseem, or an imposter? You were never banned in the first place, so why not use your old moniker? Seems to me that if you were the original Nasi, then you would not need to create a new moniker. What's up with that?

Naseem2,

WTF!! Is it me or is just that the gibberish that is posted by the Mohammedans is absolutely crazy. I really do not get a word this poster Naseem2 has said and it goes for every Mohammedan that posts here so far. I mean the posts are full of nonsense and makes no sense at all. It is like they live in a deluded world. A reality that is unfounded. I mean there is a clinical diagnosis for this schizophrenia, I believe. Some of the symptoms include delusion of grandeur and grandiose ideas and thoughts. It is like split personalities.

savsiv,

That's not Naseem. Wrong salutation, wrong valediction, not enough typos, etc., etc. Also, she/he/it never identified herself/himself/itself unless previously challenged.

Naseem: but voicing criticism against Islam will be banned…you will be labelled as blasphemers…like we are today.

Maybe, there are those trying to end free speech, but it won't work as well in America because Ameriki are not Ahmadi living in Pakistan with Sharia lite, or heavy. We don't depend on Allah (swt) to rescue us from the bad guys.
And we don't report in for Allah's tests.

Deity testing believers to see if they are really believing is an idea older than Islam. Or deity deliberately throwing stumbling blocks to see how well you do with them, is an ancient concept.

Who throws the stumbling block in front of the atheist? Has any atheist ever reported in to the Allah (SWT) Testing Center to be tested?

How about Christians and Jews? is Allah testing them without them knowing it?
How about Wiccans and Pigmy Headhunters, are they being tested?

And what are all these Kufrs (Ahmadis included) being tested for?

Allah already knows the outcome of everything.

If I were Naseem 1/2/3/4 etc I would hitch up the mule, load up the family wagon, and head for Britain. If already there, I would keep a low profile and hope the local ummah did not find out.

Those swell muslims in Britain don't like Ahmadis any more than Pakistan muslims do...

Naseem2 - are you the original Naseem, or an imposter? You were never banned in the first place..."

champ, I believe "he" was. A Fake.

And this one is a Fake, too.

"I really do not get a word this poster Naseem2 has said and it goes for every Mohammedan that posts here so far. I mean the posts are full of nonsense and makes no sense at all. It is like they live in a deluded world. A reality that is unfounded. I mean there is a clinical diagnosis for this, schizophrenia, I believe. Some of the symptoms include delusions of grandeur and grandiose ideas and thoughts. It is like split personalities.

Posted by: savsiv at September 15, 2008 3:18 PM

Exactly. And "Naseem" is supposed to be educated? Yeah, right. However, this imposter does write in excellent English, no matter how twisted the "ideas" are. A Mohammedan Apologist, obviously.

"no doubt Allah SWT has a way of sorting out the mess." Newsflash - there is no "allah," and the pagan moon deity isn't "swt." What a pile of stinking BS.

Also, this: "I hope that Marisol does not ban me simply because “she can”."

This imposter has been here before.

Gotta let ya know:

That I am more pleased than not with G.W.

He will be remembered as a good president and a great patriot, one of our more fortunate election choices.

His detractors will be forever known as those suffering from BDS.

OK folks, line up for your place in history........

This Naseem post uses the word 'lund', which the Naseems have used before. It supposedly refers to a certain part of the male anatomy.

How many muslims, or Ahmadis have you read that use the word 'lund'? Is this a common slang word?
Does only one Naseem use it? Which one?
Will the real Naseem please stand up...Please, not all at once...

Naseem2 - what happened to your usual greeting? No Olly-Olly-Oxen-Free beginning your post. Hmm. Rather odd if you ask me.

Another Naseem wannabe - how pathetic.

"Naseem2," like "hindenberg," has IP addresses that trace to southern England. Past searches have come up with 3 locations in that area.

And yes, he is banned again. I think we have enough of a sideshow in the archives to make it not worth repeating.

I suspect the guardian hack Yasmin Alhabai Brown is an ahmadi. So watch out for an article in the grauniad blaming white people in the UK for the persecution of ahmadis in pak.

Mack Truck could be driven through that yap of his - mercy!

savsiv

you wrote - " Is it me or is just that the gibberish that is posted by the Mohammedans is absolutely crazy. I really do not get a word this poster Naseem2 has said and it goes for every Mohammedan that posts here so far.

" I mean the posts are full of nonsense and makes no sense at all. It is like they live in a deluded world. A reality that is unfounded.

" I mean there is a clinical diagnosis for this schizophrenia, I believe. Some of the symptoms include delusion of grandeur and grandiose ideas and thoughts.

"It is like split personalities."

My feelings exactly! I have been slowly, patiently, and to the great detriment of my housework, studying my way through the archives here, articles and comments threads (I'm currently up to early 2006 in dhimmiwatch). Call it a massive 'data crunch'.

And judging by the examples I've read there, every single Mohammedan poster who has ever posted here, whether in disguise (but usually 'outed' after a few exchanges, by the more expert 'regulars' ) or openly identifying, is 'off the planet'. The simplest way to describe one's response to their discourse is - confusion. They confuse. Often, I think, deliberately, though not always.

Even those who at first seemed to make sense and use recognisably rational/ plausible arguments ultimately ...didn't. There's always something..'off' in the way they talk and the arguments they make.

Some start out all sweetly reasonable and making nice and then some other poster hits a 'hot' button and RRRIP! off comes the 'nice' mask and out spew the aggression/ threats/ vile abuse/ poisonous antisemitism/ blatant lies/ freaky conspiracy theories/ etc.

So: in the midst of the confusing, meandering labyrinth of their discourse, there's a monster hiding. Start talking to them, get lost in that labyrinth, and sooner or later you'll be ambushed by the monster.

You speculated about 'Split personality'. I think you're onto something. My own hunch is that in any given Mohammedan who presents here there's the 'human', to a greater or lesser degree, and then there's ...what I'll call 'the Islam'. The more of 'the Islam' there is, the less there is left of the living human being which we are trying to talk to.

Rationalists would say 'the Islam' is the 'cult programming' or 'the meme'. I think (speaking as a Christian) that there might be something more involved. A long time ago - and unfortunately I can't give the precise reference, though I've searched - a poster here who was a prison chaplain, gave it as his expert opinion that many Mohammedans were either 'obsessed', 'oppressed' or, in the worst cases 'possessed'...by the demonic, by 'something' inimical to humanity.

Exploring the archives here, I've come across more than one Hindu poster talking about the downright creepy-nasty spiritual atmosphere of Mohammedan neighbourhoods, and about being able to tell at a glance whether an ethnically Indian person is Hindu or Muslim.

I believe them. I think their spiritual radar, so to speak, is picking up on something.

Jaws - strikes again. (the photo)

dumbledoresarmy,

Great! It makes complete sense. How you describe the feeling one has is correct, that of confusion. Your analysis of the discourse between Mohammedans and civilized humans here is exactly what I have felt. May be it is a strategy to confuse and then pounce on the victim. Make them digress and lose track of their thoughts and rational thinking, and then capture them in the death trap of Islam. Honestly it is disgusting. It really is sick. Yes the human part of Mohammedans is purged and the Islamic mind takes over. It reminds me of the Sith from Star Wars. Who, when weak, plays with the compassion of the Jedi and then when the Jedi fall for it, the Sith strikes.

Naseem

Despite your ban, I know you can still read this, so read.

I had a lot more respect for you when you said that if Robert or Hugh or anyone from JihadWatch simply had to state that you're not welcome, you'd leave on your own - there'd be no need to ban you. That's what any self-respecting person ought to do - I don't respect those posters who despite their bans re-surface under other identities while keeping that concealed.

If you could post, I'd ask you how was the 'Memories of a Willow Tree' - a pro-Islamic troll, who on his now deleted website, had a photo of you in your beard and claimed several months ago that he was off with you to NWFP to do humanitarian work for the poor Mohammedans under assault from US troops.

Duh swami

'Lund' is typically used by Urdu speaking people - particularly lower class Mohammedans (I know it sounds redundant, but bear with me) - in the same way some people in the West use the f word or the word 'dick'. It's not specific to Ahmadiyas or any particular Mohammedan sect.

As Marisol mentioned, all of them are real, based in South England, rather than Lahore.