No, not Zawahiri; this is the Iraq Number Two. As we all celebrate this minor victory (it seems almost weekly now that an "al-Qaeda #" from country X is slain) we should also ponder this far more reaching question: will the slaying of individual terrorists -- be they Zawahiri or bin Laden -- have any real effects on the long term goals of the jihad? Will it eliminate the theological mandate of jihad and the division of the world into two perpetually warring halves -- Dar al-Islam and Dar al-Harb? Likening jihadis to the ever-sprouting heads of the hydra monster of legend, I tried addressing this question here, when there was a lot of hubbub about the deaths of Abu Hamza and earlier Abu Musab al-Zarqawi (who were successively al-Qaeda's Number Twos in Iraq). So, yes; killing them off -- a very good thing. But let's also remember the differences between symptom and cause.
"Al-Qaeda's Iraq number two killed: US military," from AFP, October 15:
BAGHDAD (AFP) — The US military said on Wednesday that a foreign insurgent killed in the main northern Iraqi city of Mosul this month has been identified as Abu Qaswarah, Al-Qaeda's number two in Iraq."Abu Qaswarah, also known as Abu Sara, was the Al-Qaeda in Iraq senior leader of northern Iraq," a military statement said.
It said that Abu Qaswarah, a native of Morocco who was killed in a raid in Mosul on October 5, had ties to Al Qaeda in Iraq's founder Abu Musab al-Zarqawi, who was killed in a US air strike in Iraq in June 2006.
"He was responsible for organising and leading Al-Qaeda in Iraq efforts in northern Iraq, including operations against Iraqi and coalition targets in Mosul."
The US military also described Abu Qaswarah as having trained with Al-Qaeda in Afghanistan and been in contact with insurgent leaders in Pakistan.
He directed the movement of foreign terrorists into northern Iraq, a position which he took up in 2007, it said.
The attack on the building in Mosul, considered by US commanders as Al-Qaeda's last urban stronghold in Iraq, led to the death of four other insurgents as well three women and three children, the military said in an earlier report.
"As coalition forces entered the building housing the terrorist, they began receiving small-arms fire. Coalition forces returned fire once engaged," it said.
"A terrorist detonated a suicide vest shortly thereafter in the house ... Five terrorists along with three women and three children were killed."
Also this month, US forces killed a suspected Al-Qaeda militant believed to have planned some of the deadliest bombings in Baghdad and to have killed a group of Russian diplomats in 2006.
Mahir Ahmad Mahmud al-Zubaydi, also known as Abu Assad or Abu Rami, was killed along with an unnamed woman in Baghdad's Sunni district of Adhamiyah on Friday, a statement said.
The US said Abu Rami's group was responsible for suicide bombings in Baghdad on Thursday.
Rest in pieces.
It won't end the Jihad, but it sure makes me feel better that his barstard is dead at the hands of American troops.
Good riddance to bad trash, I hope they place his remains with pigs, although that would sully the pigs final resting place.
Dear Raymond, you are absolutely right to liken the jihadis to the ever-sprouting heads of the hydra monster. But anyway this is a victory, albeit only a small one. These bastards see that they cannot get away with all the atrocities they commit.
will the slaying of individual terrorists -- be they Zawahiri or bin Laden -- have any real effects on the long term goals of the jihad?
absolutely not. but i don't hearing it. i would like to hear more of it. i mean really more.
as for the jihad thing, as soon as we get leaders who'll address the point logically maybe we'll see then...
now he gets 72 virgins
now he gets 72 virgins
Beat me to it, but I'll say it anyway:
Enjoy your virgins, beeeyotch!
"A terrorist detonated a suicide vest shortly thereafter in the house ... Five terrorists along with three women and three children were killed."
This means NO MORE sending troops into occupied terrorist buildings. Call in direct tank fire or air support. Save our troops lives!
Sorry about innocent children being killed by their fellow muslims. The women, I suspect, were in league with the terrorists. Therefore, for providing material support, their lives are forfeit. Did you catch that traitorous Americans? This means you.
Almost forgot...great job US and coalition forces. Thank you so much for your bravery and service. Same for 11B40 and Exsgtbrown. I'm EX95B, USAREUR, HQ MP CORPS.
You're right, Raymond. While it is nice to whack the head of the snake off, the body remains capable of producing more heads.
It is a short term solution which has to go hand in hand with a long term plan to negate the jihadist teachings of the Qur'an.
It will be a long war.
What if Bin Laden, Al-Zawahiri, and every last current member of Al Qaeda were to be killed? What would that mean for the future of Jihad? The canonical texts of Islam-- Qur'an, Hadith, Sira --would not have changed, nor disappeared. What Islam inculcates, and what many Muslims deeply, truly, madly believe, would not have changed. Men come and go; groups such as Al Qaeda may swell their ranks, or lose members, but other groups can form, then disappear and be re-formed under a different name and new, more successful, management. And as the personnel taking an active part in Jihad through violent means may vary, so may vary the instruments of Jihad, to include more effective, less easily recognized, weapons of Jihad. Terrorism is easily grasped. The Money Weapon, carefully-targetted and well-financed campaigns of Da'wa (directed at the economically and socially marginal), and demographic conquest are harder to discern, and harder to deal with, so hard in fact that many in the political and media elites of the Western world simply refuse to recognize the problem, much less suggest the means not to "solve" it but to diminish the size of the permanent danger.
The killing of this or that Al-Qaeda leader may give momentary satisfaction. Those taking a longer, and a truer view, of the problem of Jihad will not feel any sense of relief, nor more than a transient pleasure, at the news. Indeed, such items can, if made much of, if gloated over -- in the same way that the pointless "surge" in Iraq has been declared a "success" and gloated over -- can even do damage that outweights any temporary tactical setback to the enemy.
This isnt a victory at all... we created the Iraq mess and gave Al Qaida a base of operations on a silver platter in Iraq and they didnt have to do a thing. We are just saving face and cleaning up the mess we created in Iraq.
There wont be victory until we get OBL and crush al Qaida.
Five Terrorists, Three wanna-bes and Three Gonna bee's, dead. That seems to take care of today, tomorrow and the day after.
Landlords in Mosul need to do a better job of screening who they rent to.
It is bad enough having to put their possession by the side of the Road. Quite another to clean up the Jigsaw Puzzle of 11 Lives.
Small victory indeed, may not help by a large measure, but I think it helps. Hopefully in the process we are taking out some of the more charismatic and brighter ones among them; the hydra may sprout more heads, but perhaps they'd have smaller brains.
Good riddance to bad trash, I hope they place his remains with pigs, although that would sully the pigs final resting place.
Posted by: Winged_Hussar at October 15, 2008 1:39 PM
Ditto!
Don't worry, President Obama has promised to "capture and kill" bin Laden. Is that before or after he releases all Gitmo prisoners to the suburbs of Washington D.C.?
BTW, I thought "capture and kill" was called summary execution.
Killing terrorists wont stop jihad any more than swatting mosquito's will stop mosquito bites.
If you want to stop mosquito bites you have to go to the stagnant pond they are generating from.
We know these to be the text and tenants, atmospherics, and attitudes of Islam.
The mud in the muddy spring where the sun sets, has had 1400 years to compost into black, smelly, oily ooze. This is where Allah hangs out, and where he keeps the original Quran. The sun sets in the west, the death of the day...The moon rules the dark...
This little A--HOLE had a swedish citizenship. I am really happy that his citizenship has ended in pieces. The problem is all the rest with swedish passports that will take the same path. Are they really Swedish? Do they feel Swedish? No, it's just a cover and a personal safety to hide behind.
Hope that the Marines is pulling their triggers some more times.
I have to say that killing prominent jihaddis does matter, IMHO.
Part of winning this war will be demoralizing the enemy. And the constant attrition of their best and brightest will make a not insignificant contribution toward achieving that goal.
Will it solve the problem in any general and definitive way? Clearly not.
But it will help.
Clearly they are playing a waiting game, a war of attrition and wearing down of the enemy moral by a variety of means. Destroying the morale and self confidence of the west is an enormous component of their strategy.
We have to turn this back on them.
We really must get them used to the idea that we will keep killing their best and brightest and most dedicated and aggressive men, for as long as they keep sending them against us.
Osama himself said that people prefer the strong horse. We have to be that strong horse.
And being more patient, meticulous, persistent and effective is part of the picture.
Not that I don't see the need for more fundamental measures applied elsewhere. I do.
Personally I'm convinced that their Oxford educated and perfumed financiers have to be made to feel the lash on their own backs. They have to be placed at risk of their lives as well.
There is much we have to do. And they are so utterly dependent on the west for sustenance and support that we have countless opportunities, if only we can muster the will.
But with respect to rabble rouser jihaddis and saboteurs, they have to get it that all their efforts are futile, that all their new leaders are helpless and that every new idea they come up with is pointless -- that we won't be stopped by casualties, and that they will inevitably die a futile worthless death.
We've got to train them in the idea that every new jihaddi "leader" is a pointless fool marked for death -- not worth the listening.
Job Opportunity
The Al-Qaeda People Management Corp of Mosul has an immediate opening for a skilled man who is unafraid of blood and splattered body parts, one is is willing to go above and beyond the demands of a normal people management specialist. The pay is low, the action is non stop, and opportunities for a quick path to 72 virgins is virtually guarranteed. Applicant must be willing to carry out any insane Islamic decree or fatwah issued by any ranting and raving Islamic cleric. applicant must know which end of the gun the bullets come from...Lying and cheating and brutality skills are a plus...decency and common sense are not required...Fringe benefits include 4 young wives, ugly clothes, and a Koran...If you hate peace and have no problem blowing up girls schools and killing your own people this could be an excellent opportunity for you...If interested please call Zaid at 015 555 5551...
This is how Agence France Press (AFP) reports on the killing of a Muslim Arab, #2 in Al Qaeda:
"Un ressortissant suédois a été tué en Irak par les forces américaines, a annoncé mercredi le ministère suédois des Affaires étrangères.
"Nous avons appris (hier mardi) qu'un homme de nationalité suédoise avait été tué par les forces armées américaines en Irak", a indiqué à l'AFP une porte-parole du ministère, Gufran al-Nadaf.
Elle n'a pas été en mesure d'apporter de précisions concernant l'identité et l'âge de la victime, ni sur les circonstances de sa mort."
So he's described, in a certain sense accurately and in a larger sense, completely misleadingly, as "un ressortissant suedois" or "Swedish citizen." He may have acquired Swedish citizenship. Or British or French or American citizenship. But for those Muslims -- almost all -- who take their Islam seriously, what counts is not the particular Infidel nation-state in which you have managed to acquire citizenship, but your identity as a Muslim. The Bilad al-kufr, or Lands of the Infidels, are seen largely as an undifferentiated and hostile mass, upon which war -- not necessarily war through qitaal or combat, but war -- must be made, until the final triumph of Islam and the rule of Muslims.
"Swedish citizen."
Yes, of course -- practically a Linnaeus or a Lagervist.
What's all the hand wringing?
The more terrorists we kill, the better.
Of course they still believe in jihad.
So they can do that in their own countries and we kill them if they try to attack us.
All I need really is to see islam removed from our beautiful western countries.
And I'd like to see it removed from Africa and South Asia too.
They can al be herded into SOWdi Barbaria and drink the oil if they know how to get it out of the ground.
Filthy mohamedans.
There are hate centers (universities and madressas) scattered about the Muslim world for training imams and moulahs, such as Qom in Iran and Al Hazar in Cairo. These fellows are the prime propagandists for jihad. Liquidation of these sources of hate all over the globe would seem like a good start towards ending the Islamist problem. Maybe not once and for all, but maybe for a few generations.
It would call for a somewhat different approach than tried so far.
Think of it! a world without moulahs and without imams! Think of the closed mosques and madressas!
As a swede I´ve been listening to the public dhimmi-fied radio this morning and them wind and re-wind this storry again and again. The speciel feature was the morocans (´cause that´s what he was)lawyer, claiming that it was uncomprehencible that his client could have been a terrorist, let alone the#2 guy. Why, you say? Since he was such a simple man - meaning: He could barely speak any swedish after 15-20 years... And all he wanted was to follow his religion! Wear muslim speciffic clothes and grow a beard - and we all know how hard it is to grow a beard in a nothern country...
Now, one must wonder, why does the phrase: Follow your religion - being the muslim sort - require you to go to places like Iraq and Afghanistan and kill people? Since islam is - as we all know - a religion of peace. I think this statement of the lawyer is quite revealing and should render him a one-way ticket from sweden, but I won´t hold my breath.
Perhaps some extra care from swedish police and security police regarding the moske in Brandbergen, where the morocans are hanging out is in order?
One thing that western authorities should learn from this is, that citisenship is not a right to be dooled out to people from everywhere. It is something to be earned over a long time, say 15-20 years (so the future subject of the state know enough of the language to know he is a subject of the state and not of the muslim ummah), with the possibility to be revoked at the pleasure of the adopted state. But, I guess I can skip holding my breath on that one too...