Among the "indignant" members, there is a curious logical disconnect. The same people would most likely insist that the problem of Islamic jihad is limited to a Tiny Minority of Extremists who have "hijacked" Islam. And yet, apparently, neither Muslims nor non-Muslims are supposed to fight those people, either.
"Canadian Forces to recruit at mosque," by Jane Armstrong for Military World, October 8 (thanks to Twostellas):
VANCOUVER -- The Canadian Forces will make a rare appearance at a British Columbia mosque tonight. The aim is to generate interest among Muslims in careers in the military. But not everyone at Burnaby's Al-Salaam mosque is thrilled about the open house.
Some members say they don't think a religious institution should be used to showcase the Canadian military. Others aren't keen on the mosque hosting an organization that is involved in a combat mission in Afghanistan in which fellow Muslims are being killed.
A spokesman for the Canadian Forces said the event isn't aimed at pitching or defending the war or military careers.
Lieutenant-Commander Kris Phillips, of the Canadian National Defence Public Affairs Office, said Canada's Muslim community - like women and aboriginal people - is underrepresented in the Forces. And the information sessions are designed to provide minority groups with direct, unfiltered information
Another meeting was scheduled last night at a Vancouver native community centre.
Among the panelists answering questions tonight will be Sub-Lieutenant Wafa Dabbagh, a navy officer and the first woman to wear a hijab, or head covering, in the Canadian military.
However, the event has raised eyebrows and even indignation among some mosque members.
Student Toshio Rahman said he thinks it's inappropriate for the Canadian military to recruit in a mosque.
"When it comes to something like the armed forces, the military, the navy, or anything that has to do with security issues, I don't think it's the proper venue for that," said Mr. Rahman, 23.
"It goes against the ideals of Islam, in that we are a peaceful religion, and we are trying ... at this stage, to fix our persona in the world right now, and I don't think that an image of violence or a representation of violence at the mosque is appropriate."
Mr. Rahman said he's opposed to Canada's role in the NATO mission in Afghanistan. The prospect of joining a military organization that has troops fighting in a Muslim country is anathema to many Canadian Muslims, he added.
"I don't agree with the reasons we went there in the first place. If this was a truly peacekeeping mission, I would agree with it. Afghanistan is much more complicated and I think the only reason we went in there was because of America," Mr. Rahman said.
Right. The global jihad, or whatever Rahman may care to call it, doesn't concern Canada at all.
"I hear that the two [recruiters] are Muslim. I respect what they're doing. I don't agree with what they're doing. I don't think it would help to have Muslim Canadian soldiers in Afghanistan."
However, the mosque's youth director, Imaad Ali, said many young Muslims are intrigued by a career in the military.
Mr. Ali, who helped organize the event, said he would like to see more Muslims in the military. Most of the people who have expressed opposition to the event, he said, are educated professionals. "They see the military as the potential to go to war and fight."
Mr. Ali said he disagrees, adding there's also a patriotic aspect to joining the military. Many of his contemporaries, he said, "don't realize where democracy came from, and that people had to fight for it and had to lay down their lives."
Indeed.
Is it just me or is Canada suffering from Stockholm Syndrome?
Well, one might ask if this is a good place to gather some patriotic recruits or double agents?
Hi all:
Waste of time. The Assyrians, Berbers, Copts, Maronites Somali, Sudanese non-Moslems would be a better choice. As Hugh would point out, nothing would freak out the Moslems than to have non-Moslems Arab/Semitic speaking soldiers from a 'Crusader' country barking orders at them and showing how lethal and disciplined the former are.
Would give the uppity Moslems some pause.
xavier
as a former member or the rcafr seaforth highlanders 72 reg. 3red batt. i no that i would not want a muslim behind me that was from canada and before anyone goes rank on the issue of the hijab just remember you salute the commission not the person so who cares there are men in turbans in the rcaf Afghanistan is just one of the things a country's military does just look who first one the scean in a disaster
They identify themselves as Muslims, not as Canadians, and thus won't fight anyone belonging to their group. It's indeed revealing that when they're asked to go out and fight terrorism, the "extremists" suddenly turn into pious Muslims.
Canada's fifth column is alive and well, and hardly even trying to conceal itself.
"However, the mosque's youth director, Imaad Ali, said many young Muslims are intrigued by a career in the military. Mr. Ali, who helped organize the event, said he would like to see more Muslims in the military."
Sarcasm on/
Give the fifth column free military training. Wasn't it the U.S. who gave the Taliban its weapons to begin with? Let Ahmed from Algeria meet Ahmed from Pakistan. Give them free military training. islam can imbue more of the world with its loving peace.
"Mr. Rahman said he's opposed to Canada's role in the NATO mission in Afghanistan. The prospect of joining a military organization that has troops fighting in a Muslim country is anathema to many Canadian Muslims, he added."
The prospect of muslims joining a Canadian military organization is anathema to many Canadians!
"It goes against the ideals of Islam, in that we are a peaceful religion, and we are trying ... at this stage, to fix our persona in the world right now, and I don't think that an image of violence or a representation of violence at the mosque is appropriate."
Hep, it up to us kuffirs to defeat Islam. I guess this sort of buries that notion of "Moderate" Islam.
There is an older article in Front Page to this topic, i. e. to islamic law and islamic fatwas about muslims in western democracies, when they should join the army and to what extent they are allowed to engage. As the article points out, many muslims follow the advice which they get on the sites cited there:
http://frontpagemagazine.com/Articles/Read.aspx?GUID=F3C96D1C-BAD3-43B9-8263-2D482697BB3A
As long as such officials like here the Canadian army act so naive, one should show this article again and again.
One should even look for the original fatwas and show them.
Is there any anti-islamic organisation in Canada?
I spoke to a Canadian friend several times about Islam and the problems, and he is really interested. He even sent me some articles from Canadian papers. But as I asked him, whether he is in a local anti-islamic organisation (like for example I am in Germany in the BPE) he said, there are no such organisations in Canada. I can't believe that.
Can you recomand me some? I mean no extremist organisations, but for normal people, like you and me. And for elder people.
Here is my one:
http://www.buergerbewegung-pax-europa.de/
Very moderate, indeed.
Does this mean that no Islamic countries have an army? I mean if they did have an army wouldn't that blow the "Islam is a religion of peace" bullsh...er I mean claim?
Wrong. The military would give young Moslems the chance to escape from family and cultural oppressions in their restrictive and freedom hating cult-religion, and open their eyes to an outside world they cannot access from Islam’s parochial strictures.
Youth have a right to seek their own path in life and be rebellious against the oppression of strict obedience and ‘submission’ to their fathers, both economic and personal, and anti-freedom tyranny of Islam. The mosque is a perfect venue for liberating them of such oppressions suffered. The real ‘moderates’ are those who can get away. They may not like it, but it will teach them a new discipline of thinking on their feet while taking orders, and not just accept ‘submission’ from their regressive 7th century superstitious parochialism, so it will be good for them. This is not conscription but entering a military career of their own free will. In a backdoor sort of way it is their ticket to personal freedoms.
So not all bad, and the mosque is the perfect venue for this personal liberation, not to mention they may yet prove useful in the fight against world Jihad, though they may not like it.
"I don't think it's the proper venue for that," said Mr. Rahman, 23."
Exactly. Not in churches, synagogues, or any other kind of religious temple either.
The reasoning given for the recruiting campaign was to increase the Farsi and Arabic speaking capabilities of the CF. Fine, as Xavier has already pointed out, there are a LOT of alternative sources of native speakers.
This harks back to the FBI(or Homeland security)(?) trying to accomplish the same thing, but refusing to hire Jews with Arabic language skills. Why was that? Many Jews from North Africa and the Mediterranean are multilingual, usually French, Arabic, English, and Hebrew. Nice brew if you can find it.
There is an older article in Front Page to this topic, i. e. to islamic law and islamic fatwas about muslims in western democracies, when they should join the army and to what extent they are allowed to engage. Posted by: Kybeline
When Islamic families choose to migrate to the West’s democratic countries they accept implicitly that they will be exposed to our western ways, which includes how we think and how we run our business. Their fatwas become invalid if they contradict our laws, and in the same way these fatwas lose credibility when exposed as being anti-West against our democratic ways. Then if in violation of our laws it becomes a legal matter decided in OUR courts, not their Sharia courts.
Therefore, when their children are exposed to western ways, it is natural some of them will want to emulate the values and norms of their new world. Only through the ‘ghettotization’ of their minds can they keep these children from accepting more progressive ways. We saw the tragedy of this when young daughters are killed by their Islamist fathers or brothers for wanting to be like their other school mates, go on dates, have non-Moslem boyfriends, wear nicer clothes, refuse to wear the hijab, etc. The ghetto mentality is reinforced through their clerics issuing fatwas on “what is forbidden” but they can’t succeed in keeping them all down in the ghetto of Islam. Sure, some will ‘revert’ backwards to radical jihad mindset, but they should be the minority that is easily monitored and rounded up before they cause mischief and violence. (Our security has done a very good job on that.) But once these families have accepted coming to live amongst us in our western democracies, they must obey our constitutional laws, and they must accept the inevitable, that their children will grow up and become mature individuals with an independent mind, which is what we teach, and thus decide to choose their own lives without restrictions of fatwas. They came here of their own free will, and this is the result, a result they must learn to live with, that their children will choose freedom over the mental ghettos of their parents.
Religious/cult extremism in Islam is a throwback to another era viewed as primitive through the lens of modern civilization. Moslem children will see that, and over time (except for those reverts back to jihad) they too will learn to understand and appreciate how things work in a free world, though their imams and parents may not like it and do all they can to keep them from joining us. That is the price of freedom, that their children will make up their own minds. And if they want to join the military, that is their choice, regardless of whether or not their parents and imams agree with what the military is ordered to do. Once in uniform, you must follow orders, or become a “conscientious objector”, in which case you may find yourself discharged. The fatwas against joining the army or what wars in which they will fight should have absolutely no effect on those who had chosen our modern social ways. That’s the way it is, if you come from Sharia land and live in the West. Of course, they can always emmigrate back to where they came from if they hate our freedoms so much.
Kybeline asked:
Is there any anti-islamic organisation in Canada? Organizations? Maybe not but the closest to jihadwatch in Canada is this site
(French langauge mostly)
http://pointdebasculecanada.ca/
"It goes against the ideals of Islam, in that we are a peaceful religion, and we are trying ... at this stage, to fix our persona in the world right now, and I don't think that an image of violence or a representation of violence at the mosque is appropriate."
............................................
Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha!
Who says there's no humor in Islam?
"Others aren't keen on the mosque hosting an organization that is involved in a combat mission in Afghanistan in which fellow Muslims are being killed".
Why not? I thought plenty of mosques esentially did that: hosting terrorists.
"Some members say they don't think a religious institution should be used to showcase the Canadian military".
Yeah right. Storing weapons, harboring terrorists and shooting at people as well as dispensing jihadist ideas must be peaceful things that happen at such "religious institutions" worldwide according to these people, right?
"It goes against the ideals of Islam, in that we are a peaceful religion, and we are trying ... at this stage, to fix our persona in the world right now, and I don't think that an image of violence or a representation of violence at the mosque is appropriate."
Please do not EVER explain or expand on the meaning of irony on this site, we really need pearls like this!keep 'em coming LOL
Looking for love in all the wrong places.
Muslims only serve their tyrannical faith, not any infidel military ...except to infiltrate it.
Wake up, Great White North!
Absurd! Why do we want to arm our sworn enemies? I love my country, but please wake up Canada!