Never forget
For the first time, the FBI has admitted that the murders of Amina and Sarah Said by their father may have been an honor killing on American soil.
What can we do to help make sure that there is never another such killing here?
One thing we can and must do is call upon mosques and Islamic schools in America to institute comprehensive, honest, and transparent programs in mosques and Islamic schools, teaching against honor killing, and against the idea — which is enshrined in Islamic law — that a parent faces no penalty for killing his or her own child. We are forever told that this is a cultural practice that has nothing to do with Islam, but a manual of Islamic law certified by Al-Azhar as a reliable guide to Sunni orthodoxy says that "retaliation is obligatory against anyone who kills a human being purely intentionally and without right." However, "not subject to retaliation" is "a father or mother (or their fathers or mothers) for killing their offspring, or offspring's offspring." ('Umdat al-Salik o1.1-2).
But what do you think the odds are that any public figure will call upon Muslims in America to do anything like that? I would put them at, oh, about a billion to one.
"First Time FBI Calls Case an 'Honor Killing,'" by Maxim Lott for FoxNews, October 14 (thanks to all who sent this in):
Almost a year after two teenage girls were found dead — allegedly executed by their father — in the back seat of a taxicab in Texas, the FBI is saying for the first time that the case may have been an "honor killing."Sarah Said, 17, and her sister Amina, 18, were killed on New Year's Day, but for nine months authorities deflected questions about whether their father — the prime suspect and the subject of a nationwide manhunt — may have targeted them because of a perceived slight upon his honor.
The girls' great-aunt, Gail Gartrell, says the girls' father killed them both because he felt they disgraced the family by dating non-Muslims and acting too Western, and she called the girls' murders an honor killing from the start.
But the FBI held off on calling it an honor killing until just recently, when it made Yaser Abdel Said the "featured fugitive" on its Web site.
"That's what I've been trying to tell everybody all along," Gartrell told FOXNews.com. "I would say that's a victory."
Here comes CAIR to worry about "stigmatizing" the Muslim community. There would be far less stigma attached to the Muslim community if they didn't indulge in this transparent denial and claiming of victim status whenever a Muslim commits an act of violence, instead of demonstrating that they are just as interested as is everyone else in actually working to head off that violence.
But some Muslims say that calling the case an honor killing goes too far."As far as we're concerned, until the motive is proven in a court of law, this is [just] a homicide," Mustafaa Carroll, the executive director of the Council of American-Islamic Relations in Dallas, told FOXNews.com.
He said he worries that terms like "honor killing" may stigmatize the Islamic community. “We (Muslims) don’t have the market on jealous husbands ... or domestic violence,” Carroll said.
The United Nations estimates that 5,000 women are killed worldwide every year in honor killings — mostly in the Middle East, where many countries still have laws that protect men who murder female relatives they believe have engaged in inappropriate activity. A U.N. report includes chilling examples of such cases.
“On the order of clerics, an 18-year-old woman was flogged to death in Batsail, Bangladesh, for "immoral behavior,” the report reads. “In Egypt, a father paraded his daughter's severed head through the streets shouting, ‘I avenged my honor.’”
And here comes the requisite "This has nothing to do with Islam" section -- which claim, by the way, makes it mysterious as to why Carroll would think anyone would stigmatize the Islamic community as a result of this completely un-Islamic practice:
But Islamic scripture in no way condones such actions, Carroll said."People have their own cultural nuances and norms from before they got their religion," he said. "This is not Islamic culture."
But it is Islamic law, as I explained above.
Read it all.
WHO IS HIDING THIS MURDERER OF HIS OWN CHILDREN???
DO NOT TELL ME THAT IT COULD BE THE MUSLIMS IN AMERICA???
FOR ISLAM IS A RELIGION OF PEACE THAT WOULD NEVER CONDONE SUCH ACTIONS......
"What can we do to help make sure that there is never another such killing here?"
http://freemendo.typepad.com/undaunted/if-youre-a-scared-muslim-.html
We have to be willing to take the threat by the horns, not just wring our hands.
“We (Muslims) don’t have the market on jealous husbands ... or domestic violence,” Carroll [CAIR spokesman]said.
Notice first the attempt to change the subject by the mention of "jealous husbands".
Second, he's right that domestic violence can be found among virtually all ethnic and religious groups. But only Islam, as far as I know, condones and approves it. Has any other religion, in modern times, authorized parents to kill their children? Has any other religion, in modern times, approved of wife-beating?
Slightly OT:
M. Zuhdi Jasser on criticism of his comments on honor killings:
http://www.familysecuritymatters.org/publications/id.1400/pub_detail.asp
“We (Muslims) don’t have the market on jealous husbands ... or domestic violence,” Carroll said.
Gee, I just don't remember 'honor killing' occurring in American society until the recent high levels of Muslim immigration. Just like the exponential growth in the number of rapes in Norway. What could that be related to?
Perplexing questions in the age of multi-culturalism.
Jasser is just another slick Muslim huckster.
So how's that nationwide manhunt going? It seems pretty darned slow to me. Way back in July Fox News had a program with Meghan Kelly called Murder in the Family which featured honor killings that have taken place recently in the U.S. Prominently featured was the story of Sarah and Amina Sayed. It's interesting that Islam Sayed, the dead girls' brother, had been back and forth to New York where one of his uncles has a house, several times since the girls were murdered on New Years Day. For a family that had so many problems with money, it seems odd that Islam would be able to afford t? What was in New York? The other interesting thing is that when the Fox News reporter went to the house to try and speak with the owner of the house he was met with a string of expletives from the murderer's brother. Now would would make that guy go off, rather than just walk into his house to get away from the reporter. You can watch it for yourself here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ViOHEZJbT-M&feature=related
the FBI is saying for the first time that the case may have been an "honor killing.
notice the MAY IT LOOKS LIKE TO ME THAT THE CAIR RIDDEN BURORATS OF THE FBI OR MORE INTRESTED in covering there pc donkeys (a+sses) tnan the truth
Watching a Muslim grandmother in a supermarket in Lawrence KS with her small grandkids - what a cold evil bitch. Total non-English speaking village barbarian. She started beating the little boy on the back with her closed fist for not obeying her fast enough. Ditzy multiculti college girl looking at her in a trance like state mumbling "...you mustn't do that..." but not stopping her.
We are in WAY over our 'nice' heads.
Even though murder is murder,every state should clearly and specifically define honor killing as "First degree murder" within its Penal code definitions of the act of murder.
"Homicide vs. honor killing." And the difference is....?
Speaking of "court of law" --- how does a non-Islamic court-of-law differ from an Islamic one in dealing with honor killings? Any difference? No difference? Slight difference?
'Until the motive is proven this is just another homocide'.
Anyone can say something like that.....
Until the motive is proven it was a bank withdrawal not a robbery.
Until the motive is proven it was consensual sex not rape.
Until the motive is proven Islam is a religion not a state sponsored political ideology intent on over throwing the U.S.
Funny how CAIR leaps to the end cause of a crime and disregards motive when it works for them, but when it works against them they call for caution.
Congress should enact a federal law on honor killings thus making a convicted honor killer do his time in a federal pen.
Maybe there is a capable politician out there that would introduce a bill that could be named the Amina & Sarah Bill,not to mention this obvious honor killing earlier on Jihadwatch.
Tom Tancredo are you listening?
http://www.jihadwatch.org/archives/021696.php
He said he worries that terms like "honor killing" may stigmatize the Islamic community. “We (Muslims) don’t have the market on jealous husbands ... or domestic violence,” Carroll said.
And who said you did? No one accused the Islamic community of killing these girls. Their father is the chief suspect. If you disapprove of such acts then make it known. Let the WORLD know that this is not Islamic behavior and that the father should surrender himself to civil (non-Muslim) authorities.
In a take on an NRA ad: the Islamic community didn't kill these girls. Their father did.
Why should the Islamic community feel stigmatized in any way, unless it's because you condone his actions?
But Islamic scripture in no way condones such actions, Carroll said.
Okay. Then why is it anti-Islamic to say these girls' father murdered them because they threatened his honor? What made him think his own honor would be damaged by his daughters' talking to non-Muslims?
"People have their own cultural nuances and norms from before they got their religion," he said. "This is not Islamic culture."
I thought Islam was a religion? You just said people had their own CULTURAL nuances and norms BEFORE they got their RELIGION. What does any of this have to do with Islam? You separated culture and religion and then joined them together again. Which is it? Is "Islam" a culture or a religion?
Actually, I think murdering their daughters stigmatizes Islam.
Just being a Muslim is stigma enough.
"We (Muslims) don’t have the market on jealous husbands ... or domestic violence,” Carroll said.
Mr. Carroll, why is it always normal to be killing someone? Why are you on the evil side of every issue?
Is the FBI staffed by a bunch of morons? Why has it taken them almost a year to discover what we knew inside 24 hours?
"But what do you think the odds are that any public figure will call upon Muslims in America to do anything like that? I would put them at, oh, about a billion to one."
I guess I'd agree with that estimation.
A disappointing but predictable irony: Of all the readers here who've bounced over to my blog by the link I posted above, not one has signed up to take in a scared Muslim girl.
So far, there is one fine woman in Australia who's willing to take the risk.
Talk's cheap, eh?
Actually, I think murdering their daughters stigmatizes Islam.
Posted by: Isabellathecrusader
Of course it does. Why would anyone in their right mind disagree (including more than one person above)?
One of the Muslim defenses of lapidation that I've come across at the Guardian is that since it occurs so exceedingly rarely in the Islamic world, why should infidels be in such a tizzy over it. What we must understand is that the rarity of this form of grotesque punishment is directly correlative to the preponderance of honor killings, i.e., the societal and familial stigma surrounding a public stoning is avoided when family members dispatch the offender themselves.
This has nothing to do with Islamic Law.
How silly is that!
You know who stigmatizesthe Islamic community? Muslims. Check it out. Phyllis Chesler wrote about the story back in August and Aunt Gail wrote this in:
9. gail gartrell:
Budmanx,
I will tell you that I do take these threats very seriously! I have too! But, I do not fear these terrorists as this is what they want from me! They will NOT invoke terror!! What they have done is to strengthen me, to allow me to understand that I have a God given right to defend my life and I will!
At last count, I have over 200 death threats and that does not count the threat to take everything from me (lawsuits, etc…). Why have the police not done anything about these threats? IT IS A MISDEMEANOR and he can bond out in no time!! I suppose it is okay to be terrorized as long as it is only a family…not two buildings!
Well, as a result, I assure you, I am being watched over by those who will NOT hesitate to take any Muslim out if they even step in my yard!It is a horrible thing but, I am left with no choice! The Irving police……no comment!
Great-Aunt-Gail
That is messed up. She's living like Ayaan Ali Hirsi, never sleeping in the same place twice. Muslims hate honesty. And yeah, their mom killed them too, or was at least an accomplice. She's been in the cult forever. She tried to leave that monster once and I guess he and his cronies must have given her the Aunt Gail treatment and she came back. You know he's in Egypt now. Tissy, otoh, is on the run in the states, according to Phyllis Chesler:
According to my interviewee Gail Gartrell, who is the great-aunt of the murdered girls, after Yaser disappeared, Tissy played the part of the victim, collected money from the girls’ schoolmates and their families, but remained close to Yaser’s extended family. Then, most improbably, Tissy developed an Iraqi male “protector” with whom she eventually fled to Dearborn, a radical-jihadic suburb of Detroit. According to Gartrell, the Iraqi stole money from some local Dallas Muslims (he presumably bought a car but never got around to paying for it, held up a store, etc.) after which he had to get out of town in a hurry. Tissy went with him without a backward glance. Her various relatives have described her as “dim witted and dumb-assed but not as mentally retarded or mentally ill.”
When Connie Moggio, the girls’ aunt, called and told Tissy that she would list her as a missing person if she did not hear from her, Tissy called real fast. Her story: She left the Iraqi because he was mistreating her and joined forced with another Muslim women who has just left her abusive husband.
Bill Warner (not CSPI Bill Warner), a PI working on the case, says Yaser may be in upstate New York:
Said has a mustache and always wears dark sunglasses, both indoors and outside. He frequents Denny's and I-Hop restaurants and smokes Marlboro Light 100's cigarettes. Yaser Said has ties to New York, (Shrub Oak, Westchester County, NY 10588,) Texas, and Egypt. He also has Egyptian and United States' passports. Additionally, Said is known to carry a handgun in his taxi cab at all times. It has also been reported that Said always carries a weapon with him, to include knives. Yaser Abdel Said could be driving cab in the Metro New York City area.
I hope he gets the chair.
"He said he worries that terms like "honor killing" may stigmatize the Islamic community. “We (Muslims) don’t have the market on jealous husbands ... or domestic violence,” Carroll said."
A good example of group think, putting the whole issue in the broader example of identity politics, and also setting that group think ideal against other groups.
Not only does the spokescreature change the subject from a father murderring his children, to a cuckold exacting revenge, he couches it in political terms, so the murderer no longer is a malefactor but a representative of the Muslim community, and that somehow pursuing a murderer is an act of discrimination, since members of other communities also have committed domestic violence.
Furthermore, the whole issue of murder is folded into the category of domestic violence, as if taking a life is the same as pushing someone during an argument.
Further proof as how when people become so contemptuous of truth they get ten lies in return.
They sure took their sweet time coming up with a MOTIVE now didn't they.
America can categorize other crimes such as, ie; "hate crimes" but don't dare associate certain murders of female family members..honor killing, with islamic culture and islam. They will never own this stuff if we don't force them to...and we never seem willing. The FBI can sometimes find those fugitives they really want..but Whitey Bulger and this muslim turd present two different but real problems for them. One is integrity and the other is political correctness.
Yuh think?
I wonder what their first clue was.
If honor murder is cultural and not islamic, then why is it that after 1400 years the islamic countries have not eliminated this supposed cultural abuse? Is islam that ineffective that it cannot raise up the level of the people?
"Watching a Muslim grandmother in a supermarket in Lawrence KS with her small grandkids - what a cold evil bitch. Total non-English speaking village barbarian." --poetcomic1
You do paint a picture. What the heck is an old Mohammedan woman doing in Lawrence, Kansas?
This has just got to stop. We have to stop them from coming here, somehow.
The culture war is coming...soon.
Muslim parade in NYC.....look at the cops.
When will a civil or religious war break out here?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9nTrscmkfU
Don't you get it?
No US government/administration is ever going to "stop them from coming here."
So WE have to do something, and within the context of this post and thread, WE have to be willing to protect innocent, endangered Muslima, if they seek it.
It is worth noting in this context, undaunted, darcy etc, that the amnesty bill that was presented in the senate (was it last year?) was promptly killed by a public outcry.
The same can be done with immigration, or should I say invasion, from the mohammedan block.
It's the squeeky wheel that gets the grease!
We should simply close the borders to pretty much everybody but apostates, genuine reformers and oppressed minorities (Copts, Bahais, Assyrian Christians etc...).
A loud enough public outcry will do it.
If and only if those of us who are in the know, generate enough public awareness.
=========
Bear in mind, it will have to be loud. Too many of our politicians, our alleged representatives, are in the pockets of the mohammedan oil thieves.
So as I have been saying and will continue to say, we need to start getting this organized and financed.
The bad guys have CAIR and the muslim brotherhood and billions of saudi oil dollars behind them -- and moles in every department of gov't.
What have we got working for us????
Hmmmm........ ????
If honor murder is cultural and not islamic, then why is it that after 1400 years the islamic countries have not eliminated this supposed cultural abuse? Is islam that ineffective that it cannot raise up the level of the people?
I think the more important question is: why is it that when these women are murdered that only infidels give a rat's ass about their lives? We can call it honor killing if we want because we are the only people who acknowledge how sick and wrong it is. ANd when it happens not only does the Muslim community show zero remorse, but they're always more concerned with covering it up than punishing the murderer, who they of course fee should be off the hook, and if they didn't then Yaser Said would be in custody. This is justice to these people.
In what kind of sick culture is having a daughter who doesn't wear a disgusting Dark-Age Nazi slave rag or who engages in a romantic relationship consentually and independently of incestuous Sharia sex slavery, or even gets a job so that she doesn't have to whore her life away in exchange for a free ride and a tapeworm's epitaph like her mom MORE SINFUL THAN MURDERING ONE'S DAUGHTER?
And what kind of sicko does it take to be a cultural relativist and excuse this crap away or put free-world culture on a par with that of monsters who do things like that feel pious in doing so? Muslims are very, very sick, very evil people and so are those who defend Islam. Everyone knows about this kind of thing no matter how ignorant they are of Islam and still people defend Islam. That is not, nor will it ever be okay with me.
What have we got working for us????
Hmmmm........ ????
Posted by: joeblough at October 14, 2008 11:48 PM
joeblough, too late to ask this question. Why? Look who America elected as their POTUS. After Ronald Regan, Bill Clinton, who:
- Did nothing about first World Trade Center bombing.
- Ran like a rat, from Somalia.
- Sold the bedroom to anyone who shelled ut $ 10,000/- per night.
- was in Saudi pockets: http://www.nysun.com/national/saudis-arabs-funneled-millions-to-president/5137/
- Sold our children to Islam: http://www.blessedcause.org/proof/Clinton%20Embracing%20Islam%20selling%20out%20children.htm
followed by Bush, who:
- was funded by Al-Sauds and Bin Ladens: http://tvnewslies.org/html/bin_laden_ties.html
- Helped Bin Ladens escape: http://dir.salon.com/story/books/feature/2004/03/11/unger_1/index.html
- Covered up for Saudi Arabia, in 9/11 Commission: http://www.wsws.org/articles/2004/apr2004/rice-a06.shtml
- Started a phony war-on-teror with terrorist allies: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=45f1Riv_z1I
- Did not respond to:
- Kenyan bombings.
- USS Cole bombing.
- Murder of Daniel Pearl.
Clearly, both the last presidents were Saudi puppets and yet, America not only could not hold their Presidents to fire, but re-elected them. Ofcourse, Clinton was impeached, not for treason, but for something luch less.
coming back to your question, since Bill Clinton, not only the presidents have not been working for Americans, they have been working for the enemy.
Sorry, joeblough; ain't gonna work. Take a big, deep breath of reality.
They're here, regardless of how they got here, and they ain't leavin'.
~~~~~~~
"I think the more important question is: why is it that when these women are murdered that only infidels give a rat's ass about their lives?"
Did you really write that, jdamn? Giving a rat's ass requires something more than your angry words. I don't see you signed up to take in an endangered Musilm girl.
Talk's cheap, boys and girls.
undaunted,
Maybe talk is cheap but how come you can't get even THAT much from Muslims in the face of such horrendous acts? How come the only time Muslims get exorcised is when someone touches a book the wrong way or draws cartoons for WESTERN audiences?
Touche'.