Israel: Mosque loudspeakers used to rally Muslim rioters in Acre

Demolish the mosque is the only proper response. Lilly-livered so-called liberals who prune their stunted-bonzi tree of moral superiority and lord their supposed non-violent beliefs over the rest of us, come hell or dhimmitude, are in fact causing more suffering and grief for more people over longer periods. Jihadists crawled back under their rock for 400 years when they feared strong non-Muslim responses.

Crap responses like "go out and buy stuff" after 9/11 and "Islam is a religion of peace" rob responsible people their right to defend themselves from an evil enemy.
http://www.bravenewsworld.blogspot.com

Yeah, implode the mosque just like the people of Verona did. Put another monument in honor of Oriana Fallaci. Screw them for disregarding the law. We could learn from the Israelis that people who incite violence and murder, like every imam and Al Sharpton, must be imrpioned if not deported.

I do love that the Jews rioted too. That takes balls.

maybe none of this would have happened if there weren't jews there in the first place?

Crap responses like "go out and buy stuff" after 9/11 and "Islam is a religion of peace"

Posted by: Max Publius at October 12, 2008 2:17 PM

POTUS/Commander-in-chief/leader-of-the-free-world, has nothting for those who elected him, other than crap responses above, while lying to America about 'war-on-terror', WMDs and 'fighting terrorists-there-so-we don't-have-to-fight-here', (much like 'jobs-Americans-won't-take). Although the phony war on terror (with terrorists as allies), has cost America billions of dollars, over 4000 lives and yet, Americans won't hold their politicians to account.
And Americans wonder 'what happened to my country'?

The story is almost unrecognizable now. The driver in all earlier accounts was driving at terrifying speeds, music full blast, and was very aggressive. The Arab mob of 'youths' burned numerous cars and smashed and vandalized 40 (lowest figure I've heard) Jewish shops. And ran through the streets screaming 'Kill the Jews'. The Jewish response has been 1/10th of that. So what do we end up with? "Arab Jewish riots" - complete equivalence except of course the poor Palestinians being the victims by default as always.

Heads up -- troll alert. This one is particularly nasty. Read his posts denying the Holocaust under the most recent wilders interview.

"MK Abbas Zakour (United Arab List) said the Arab leadership in the city met on Saturday morning and discussed ways to avoid similar violence in the future."

But that was not before Acre's mayor, Shimon Lancry, vowed on Friday to cancel the upcoming Acre festival which draws a lot of tourists and is considered to be an important source of income for the city's "Arabs".

Poetcomic-- Indeed. And it's been a challenge to find something to post that tells the whole story. Dumbledoresarmy kindly sent one the other night, but by the time I got to the link the Jerusalem Post had drastically revised the content to focus on police and politicians' responses, so I had to keep looking for more information on the status of what the JPost had reported earlier.

Initial coverage was frank about the Muslim violence, then that aspect all but disappeared, and then it came back in more recent sets of stories, like the ones posted above. And the CNN one about the rumor and subsequent irrational responses to it (urged on by mosque speakers) finally seemed to tie it all together.

The point is, Muslims and non-Muslims will never live in a state of equality and equanimity, by and large. This has been the case through the course of history.

True, there are and have been minor exceptions.

Muslims will never accept a Jewish state in the region, at par. Jews and Arabs cannot co-exist in this tiny piece of land, George W. Bush's assurances notwithstanding. One people will have to leave; either the Jews or the Arabs must leave. Co-existence will not work, George W. Bush and Condoleezza Rice notwithstanding. These two are our teachers on Islam and the Middle East, Mr. Bush and Dr. Rice.

Bush's delusions that "the face of terror is not the true faith of Islam. That's not what Islam is all about. Islam is peace..." are simply that. Delusions.

Just for fun - here's the text of the first story that caught my eye in 'Jerusalem Post.' I don't just keep links - I copy and save the original text as it first appears. So even if it's later altered, I've got the 'first draft'. here's the original text as saved by me.

I've added running 'translations' of some of the terminology, in brackets thus {comment - dda}.

"Oct 9, 2008 19:10 | Updated Oct 10, 2008 1:02
Police bid to restore calm in Acre after Yom Kippur riots
By YAAKOV LAPPIN

"A riot in Acre shattered the Yom Kippur calm on Wednesday night as hundreds of the city's Arab {Muslim - dda} residents vandalized Jewish-owned shops and vehicles and clashed with police.

"On Thursday evening, tensions boiled over again during a demonstration held by Jews against the previous evening's occurrences.

"Both Jews and Arabs {Arab Muslims - dda} clashed with police in various parts of the racially {ideologically - dda} divided city, leading to 10 arrests. In total, at least eight people were lightly injured in the successive nights of violence.

'For part of Thursday evening, the city was in lockdown, its entrances temporarily closed off, as hundreds of riot and border police armed with water cannons and tear gas worked to restore calm to Acre's streets.

'Police say the disturbances were sparked deliberately on Wednesday evening when an Arab {Arab Muslim - dda} driver, Tawfik Jamal - a resident of Acre's Old City - made his way to the predominantly Jewish Ben-Gurion neighborhood in the eastern part of the city, blasting loud music from his vehicle as a provocation on the holiest day in the Jewish calendar.

'Speaking to Channel 2 News, Jamal denied he had intended to provoke local residents {of course!- 'war is deception' - dda}, saying he had driven with his 18-year-old son and the son's 20-year-old friend carefully and quietly from the Old City to the Ben-Gurion neighborhood, three kilometers away, to pick up his daughter from her fiancé's home.

'But police dismissed Jamal's claims.

"This was a provocation. An Arab driver arrived in a Jewish neighborhood on Yom Kippur with blaring music, and refused to leave when asked to by local residents. We believe he was intoxicated. This was a deliberate act," Galilee Police spokesman Ch.-Supt. Eran Shaked said.

'The verbal confrontation between Jamal and the local residents quickly deteriorated into violence, as rocks and bottles were thrown at Jamal's vehicle.

'According to Jamal, he and his two passengers fled the car. The three were taken to hospital where they were treated for light injuries and released.

'In the meantime, police said,
"False rumors that Arabs were seriously harmed or killed by Jews reached the Old City, and caused a far more serious and organized incident in Acre."

'Responding to the rumors, hundreds of Arabs {Arab Muslims - dda} set out from the Old City toward the Ben-Gurion neighborhood, walking down a main road, smashing store windows and cars along the way {this bit - the smashing of shops and cars - reminds me of the 'Cronulla riots' in Sydney a couple years ago - dda}

'Reports said the mob shouted "Kill the Jews," "Allahu Akbar," and "If you come out of your homes, you will die."

'At the same time, a few hundred Jews had congregated in the streets of the Ben-Gurion neighborhood.

'Fearing a deadly clash, police acted quickly, mobilizing "a very large force" to prevent the two groups from confronting one another, Shaked said.

"We used tear gas and other means to disperse the group heading toward Ben-Gurion, thereby preventing a far more serous incident. Lives were saved because of this action," Shaked said.

'Five police officers were wounded by rocks, and two civilians were lightly wounded during the clashes, a result that Shaked said was nothing compared to what would have happened had police not acted swiftly to separate the two sides.

'Shaked said violent clashes between Arabs {tr: Arab Muslims – dda} and Jews in the city was an "unusual" event.

'On Thursday night, tensions boiled over again, as both Jews and Arabs {Arab Muslims - dda} clashed with the police.

'Police denied riots were taking place, saying a demonstration was being held by Jewish residents in the eastern part of the city against the previous evening's incidents.

'Jews tried to break through police lines without success.

"There is a demonstration and it is under control," Shaked insisted on Thursday.

'Police, including officers on horseback, had positioned themselves in large numbers in sensitive spots considered likely flashpoints where Jews and Arabs {Arab Muslims - dda} could clash.

'Police Commissioner Ch.-Insp. Dudi Cohen held a special situation analysis meeting at an Acre police station on Thursday evening.

'Cmdr. Shimon Koren, Northern District police chief, arrived in Acre to oversee police operations. "Our aim is to prevent Jews and Arabs from clashing," he said. "We won't allow anyone to riot."

'The riots garnered strong reactions from political leaders.
MK Ahmed Tibi called the riots a "Jewish pogrom," and said the police were handling the "attack against the Arab residents" in a discriminatory manner. {note him 'playing the victim card' - and that it was the actions taken by the ARAB MUSLIM mob that look to me like a pogrom - dda}.

'Hadash MK Muhammad Barakei echoed Tibi's words, saying that "fascist gangs in Acre carried out a pogrom against Arabs, reminiscent of dark days in human history. We have been warning for a while of the expansion of these gangs in Acre, whose only purpose is to harass the Arabs." {again: Muslims start a fight then cry 'poor us!' if the victims make an effective response - dda}.

"Mixed cities are supposed to serve as a model of coexistence... The police must impose order, otherwise these cities will turn into ticking time bombs," MK Nadia Hilou (Labor) commented Thursday night.

'Hilou, who heads the Knesset lobby for mixed cities, called on Public Security Minister Avi Dichter to come to Acre. "I foresee an immediate danger - these sorts of riots might spread to the rest of the region," she added. {hmmmm - sounds like a threat to me - dda}.

'Prime Minister Ehud Olmert said in response to the riots that maintaining coexistence between Arab and Jewish sectors in Israel was a highly important mission. {Indian posters - feel any deja vu, hearing this? - dda}

'He called on Acre residents to show restraint and to do their best to make efforts to get life in the city back on track. {Indian posters - does this remind you of anything? - dda}

'Kadima leader Tzipi Livni spoke with Acre Mayor Shimon Lankri, who updated her on events.
'Israel Beiteinu MK Estherina Tartman said, "The pogrom in Acre is another proof that the Arabs of Israel are the real threat to the state. There is no solution [other than] a swap of territories," she said.

'Israel's only Arab minister, Ghaleb Majadle (Labor) said he believed that the Acre riot was "an exceptional and unusual incident, and I hope it won't repeat itself."

'MK Yuval Steinitz (Likud) called the Public Security Minister Avi Dichter and Police Chief David Cohen to resign.

"Israel has become the only country in the world where pogroms against Jews are taking place, [with participants] harming them, their property and calling to kill the Jews. A police [force] incapable of protecting the Jewish residents of Acre and Peki'in needs to reassess itself," Steinitz said.
Shelly Paz contributed to this report END STORY

I'd be interested to hear what our Indian friends, on this comments floor, have to say about this one; for it certainly reminded me very much of some of the stories we've had out of India over the past few years.

what they need to understand though is that you don't throw rocks at someone for driving a car

LOL, Omar. That's right: it's the fault of the Jews for being there, just as it's their fault they have to take shelter from the daily barrage of Kassams and Katyushas.

But they'll always be somewhere, you know, and no matter where they are, you and your ilk will want them somewhere else--or, better yet, dead.

The question, however, is not why the Jews are there, since any sane person knows the answer to that. The question is, why are Arab Muslims there? Jews aren't allowed in Saudi Arabia and other Islamic hellholes, and where they are allowed they enjoy nothing even remotely resembling the freedom afforded those Arab baboons who started the trouble.

So, really, the problem is that the Israelis allow your kind there, because you do have a point: there are no "Arab-Jewish riots" in Saudi Arabia.

What you need fear is that one day the Israelis will notice and fashion their policies accordingly.

the jews should have taken half of germany after the holocaust not all of palestine which had nothing to do with the holocaust.

and to answer your question, arab-muslims are there because they've always been there. it's their home. jews were only kicked out of the middle east AFTER the creation of israel, the palestinians were kicked out of palestine because of something germany did.

Troll: the jews should have taken half of germany after the holocaust not all of palestine which had nothing to do with the holocaust..

I thought there was no holocaust?

I guess trollarians have a hard time keeping their stories straight.

you're right they should have proved the holocaust before anything happened.
you're all pathetic here on jw, none of you can ever answer my questions you just want to read comments where everyone is saying the exact same thing and ignore mine which bring up your hypocrisies.

Why would you throw rocks at a car for driving around on Yom Kippur? A legitimate question, even though asked by what is likely to be a troll.

Aussie Dave over at IsraellyCool neatly describes the circumstances of the one day of the year when almost no cars or motor vehicles are on the roads (http://www.israellycool.com/2008/10/11/to-drive-or-not-to-drive-that-is-the-question/).

"It looks like a post apocalypse movie where the oil ran out one night and all we have left are bicycles and roller blades."

"On Yom Kippur, however, everything stops."

"The air smells good, the visibility gets better and from sundown to sundown the streets are full of people strolling or cycling along 10 lane highways. People have found a way to organize their lives that for just one day a year, nobody drives except for emergencies."

"I left my apartment to have a look this year and I saw one pickup truck and 3 police cars moving. Slowly. Through the crowds of children on bikes."

"Even when you read a first hand account, its not till you understand how widely observed the no car rule is that you get a feel for why fast moving cars driven by anyone, Jew or Arab, on Yom Kippur are SUCH A BIG DEAL."

And so for the readers not in Israel, imagine a day every year where for all intents and purposes nobody is driving a vehicle, and the children and pedestrians take over the roads and highways. Now imagine a car driven at high speed down these roads - as a parent, would you not be concerned for your children and others by such behaviour. As mentioned above, people people may be upset if you did drive, but as long as you drive very carefully then it is unlikely that anything would be done to you. Driving at high speed is a safety issue in addition to the religious angle of driving at all. The two recent cases of Arab drivers running amok using vehicles to kill and injure Israelis would not have been far from the minds of those seeing a high speed car driving around.

As an additional provocation, there is also the accusation that the Arab driver had his sound system blaring at the same time. Pamela Gellar over at Altas Shrugs has a report that the driver claimed that his radio was off at the time, contradicting eyewitnesses reports. Disrespectful certainly, but shouldn't be the sole reason for people to throw rocks at your car - although who amongst us in the Western world has not have had the urge to throw rocks at the cars with the "Doof Doof" bass sound systems that pull up at the traffic lights next to us on any day of the year.

omar the Muslim Dementor is impervious to the facts of history.

Arabs are not indigenous to the land of Israel. Arab Muslims (and Muslims generally) are imperial invaders and occupiers and they treated the indigenous population there (as in every other country unlucky enough to be conquered by them) with a mean-minded cruelty and sheer viciousness that wrenches the mind.

Jews were living in eretz Israel thousands of years ago; Jews were the majority of the population at the time of Jesus of Nazareth (ca. AD 30),

Despite the upheavals of AD 70 and AD 135 (at which time the Roman imperial invaders and occupiers decided to rename the place 'palestine' after the ancient Philistine enemies of Israel [who were invaders from the sea]), right through to the 7th century Jews continued to live in the land of Israel in large numbers - as testified by the many, many archaeological sites revealing 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th and 6th-century synagogues, many of which would have been large and beautiful buildings such as can only have been built by a significant and prosperous community.

Nearly all of those synagogues were, in fact, destroyed during the 6th century and later, by the invading vandalistic supremacist Muslims [Arabs first; then Arabised Islamised Kurds, Mamluks and Turks, in succeeding centuries] whose treatment of the indigenous Jewish, Samaritan and Christian population was, quite simply put, cruel and obsessively oppressive; all through the period of Muslim domination 7thC-1917 many non-Muslims were killed, and others (at various times) forced to flee.

The fact that Jews hung on in the land of Israel despite the ghastly conditions to which they were subjected by the Muslim invaders/ occupiers, and the fact that Jews from other lands still kept on coming there as pilgrims or even to live, even though such Jews were treated vilely by the Muslims who were ruling and ruining the place, is testament to the Jews' love of their homeland and their belief that to live in the land of Israel is to obey YHWH's command.

By the way, there was a largish Jewish community IN ACRE during the middle ages. In 1200 AD there was a Jewish academy - religious school - in Acre. In 1218 AD there were three synagogues in Jerusalem. Most Jews lived along the coast, in Ashkelon *and especially in Acco/ Acre*. So Jews have just as much ancestral right to live in Acre today, as any Arabised Muslim.

For more detailed accounts of the suffering and survival of the Jewish communities who hung on by their teeth and toenails in the land of Israel during the period of Muslim imperial invasion, occupation and ruination, see Bat Yeor, 'The Dhimmi', relevant portions of Andrew Bostom's book 'Legacy of Jihad' and his 2004 article 'Legacy of Jihad in Palestine'

http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles/Read.aspx?GUID=1798A2A2-0921-4011-A3F7-C95189231BEC

as well as relevant portions of Bostom's "The Legacy of Islamic Antisemitism", Moshe Gil "A History of Palestine, 634-1099" and James Parkes "Whose Land?"

And since we are talking about Jews and Acre, let's hear the testimony of Isaac b. Samuel of Acre (1270-1350 C.E.), who was, Bostom remarks, "one of the most outstanding Kabbalists of his time. Conversant with Islamic theology and often using Arabic in his exegesis, Isaac nevertheless believed that it was preferable to live under the yoke of Christendom rather than that of Islamdom."

Bostom continues:

"Accordingly, despite the precept to dwell in the Holy Land, Isaac b. Samuel fled to Italy and thence to Christian Spain, where he wrote:

"The word ziz in Arabic is derogatory, for when they wish to say in that tongue, ‘Strike him upon the head,’ ‘Give him a blow upon the neck,’ they say zazzhu (‘hit him’)…

"Indeed, on account of our sins they strike upon the head the children of Israel who dwell in their lands and they thus extort money from them by force.

" For they say in their tongue, mal al-yahudi mubah, ‘it is lawful to take money of the Jews.’

"For, in the eyes of the Muslims, the children of Israel are as open to abuse as an unprotected field.

"Even in their law and statutes they rule that the testimony of a Muslim is always to be believed against that of a Jew.

"For this reason our rabbis of blessed memory have said, ‘Rather beneath the yoke of Edom [Christendom] than that of Ishmael [Islam, the Muslims, the Arabs[.’

"They plead for mercy before the Holy One, Blessed be He, saying, ‘Master of the World, either let us live beneath Thy shadow or else beneath that of the children of Edom’ (a Talmudic verse)".

All the regular posters at this site know most of this already, but just in case any new visitor may be 'thrown' by Omar's nonsensical propaganda, I have thought it good to restate the plain historical facts.

I would also stress to any new visitor that to understand 'Omar' it is advisable to read at least Part One of Andrew Bostom's "The Legacy of Islamic Antisemitism".

Many Muslims *hate* Jews. That hatred is inculcated by the Qur'an, the Sira (life of Mohammed, and the Hadith), and is based on a farrago of vicious lies and nonsense; that hatred has been coded into laws and regulations all over the Islamosphere. For 1300 years Muslim societies have treated dhimmi Jewish communities, in places as far apart as Afghanistan and Morocco, with a hatred, contempt, and inhuman cruelty that is sickening to behold.

And the Muslims *hate*, oh, they *hate* the Jews of modern Israel because the Jews there - who they [the Muslims] think ought to be their cringing, grovelling near-slaves - threw off the yoke of dhimmitude, booted out the bulk of the murderous sneering Arab Muslim occupier-oppressors, and claimed the right to live and defend themselves, as free and dignified human beings in their own ancestral land.

The hatred and frustration the jihad- and sharia-minded Muslims feel toward Jews and Israel is the hatred and frustration which a sadistic abuser and slavemaster feels when he sees that which he regards as his Lawful Prey, the people he used to be able to abuse at will, to torment and insult and kill, walking free in the sunlight - armed.

dda,
First, thank you for your archival. The story as it originally appeared is revealing.

There was almost nothing in the second story other than the Jewish response:

Two apartments belonging to Arab residents were torched by the Jewish rioters. Police separated the rioters throughout Saturday, however the rioting erupted again that night.

Note how it made victims of the aggressors. It's almost like looking at 1945 Berlin and blaming the Allies for reducing it to rubble, depriving poor Berliners of their homes.

I don't understand why Israel cannot do to the Arabs of Acre what was done to Jews all across the Middle East: EXPEL THEM.
The Israelis have a far better case to make than those Muslim countries that removed millenium-old Jewish settlements in the wake of Israel's founding. The Muslims of Acre weren't expelled at the same time. Perhaps now the time has come to fight fire with fire. Arabs who cannot live peacefully in Israel should be removed.

dumbledoresarmy you're forgetting about you white people in america. the native americans are indigenous to that land, i think it would be only fair for you to leave. if the jews deserve the land of israel because there were jews there thousands of years ago then same goes for america.

...you white people in america.

And where does your non-white azz reside?

That means all Muslims must also vacate America.
All mosques must be destroyed.

whatever, you're still avoiding my point

...you're still avoiding my point...

Because your point is moot.

My white azz is staying put as are millions up millions of others, including non-white azzes.

And the same goes for Israelis.

all i'm saying is that if you think that because some people lived in a country thousands of years ago and therefore are entitled to that land then fine, israel should belong to the jews. but like how the jews kicked out all of the palestinians out of palestine the native americans should kick out all europeans from america (and other non native americans).

hey Omar118 what about us people in Canada/U.S. that are mixed heritage, how do we split ourselves? should part of me stay in Canada and the other part back to Europe? your such an azhole if arabs are wanting their original land they need to head back to the land of sowdi arabia. P.S. More than 50 percent of Israeli JEws are from the ME! so your point is moot azhole!

That means all Muslims must also vacate America.
All mosques must be destroyed.

Posted by: PMK at October 12, 2008 6:02 PM

Here is why: http://atlasshrugs2000.typepad.com/

Omar118...The 'white people' purchased the land from the Indians for $24 and some beads. That was just the down payment. The Indians were paid off with casinos. 'White people' made it possible.
Native Americans don't want 'white people' to move away, because it is 'white people' who spend their money in Indian casinos.
Few Mohammadans will ever own a casino, no matter where they live.

Dumbledoresarmy, you've been fantastic these last couple of days. Bless your heart.

Omar, the Native Americans would have been decimated as soon as anyone landed in the New World because they weren't immune to small pox.

And don't forget another reason why Muslims hate Jews: because twice they've descended upon them in genocidal campaigns, five huge nations against itty-bitty Israel, and both times Israel not only handed them all their asses, but wound up with a bunch of land that would have never been theirs had the inbred, baby-raping Nazi terrorists left them alone. They got the Sinai, the West Bank, and Gaza, not to mention that in 1967 they destroyed the Air Force of the most populous Arab nation in 3 days before handing the other 4 countries their asses. Oh, and Jews are simply superior, ideologically, morally, and in terms of every civilizational marker of progress. Muslims have to manufacture lies about Jews in order to talk trash about them, while Jews have only to crack a history book or turn on the news. Israelis have done more in 60 years - 12 million of them do more in 1 year - than the billions and billions of Muslim have ever accomplished in their 1400-year history. The world owes Israel a huge debt of gratitude for standing up for democracy in the face of constant evil, for intelligence and medical technology out the ass, and for even my cameraphone and the last four Windows platforms. Muslims, meanwhile, could never undo all the damage they've done to this world. They bring down every land they move to (parasitize). They are the world's greatest disgrace, and yet, they are so deluded to the point of insanity and incapable of shame that they can't even admit it - like civilized, moral people invariably do - and so they are doomed to the hell on earth they create for themselves.

Israel ought to not only boot out every Arab but eliminate them from Gaza and the West Bank as well. And while they're at it, they ought to take back the Sinai.

omar118-

Just one question about the Holocaust. WHY would all the top leaders of Nazi Germany ON TRIAL FOR THEIR LIVES including Hoess, the commandant of Auschwitz not even THINK to suggest it didn't happen if it didn't. Their lives at stake mind you, and not one ever had the nerve to even vaguely suggest it didn't happen. Their defense was 'we were obeying orders'. Hoess himself give dates, numbers details of gassings etc. Eichmann at his trial also couldn't even conceive of denying the genocide.

Just think about this a minute and explain why this is so, Omar.

The documentation is stupendously thorough. My Aunt (who spoke four languages at age 17) was a secretary at Auschwitz and saw the death certificates for everyone in her family. My grandfather had over 30 relatives in Poland with which he corresponded. After 1939 ALL dead.

Dumbledoresarmy, you've been fantastic these last couple of days. Bless your heart
By jdamn

You have done very well yourself jdamn...

i don't think you should leave america, i'm just saying by your logic that's what should happen. the jews kicked all of the palestinians out of palestine and you think that's justified by the fact that there were jews there 5 thousand years ago. oh by the way duhswami i'm sure most native americans would trade their casinos any day of the week in order to take back the genocide of their people by europeans. i cant believe youre justifying what your ancestors did. did you NOT KNOW they gave native americans blankets used by people with small pox for the sole reason of wiping out the native americans?
poetcomic youre so typical, you try to get me to feel sorry for you because you're connected to the holocaust and hope i forget what the real point is. where did the number 6 million come from? how do we know it was so bad that the jews deserve a country, which is land from a people who had nothing to do with the holocaust?
and jdamn why did hezbollah kick israel's ass in 2006?

trashtalking Omar is talking nonsense.

AD 1270 (when Samuel of Acre lived in Acre) is not 'thousands' of years ago. It is exactly 938 years ago - not even ONE thousand years.

And the Jewish community in Acre wasn't the only Jewish community in the land of Israel at that time, far from it; nor was it the last. The land of Israel has *never* been entirely Judenrein, not even in the darkest days of the Muslim occupation, under the Mamluks or during the final century of so of the Ottoman period (in the early 19th century the total number of humans living in the Land was the smallest that it has ever been, certainly far smaller than it was in Byzantine times).

I'm an Australian. I've thought about this matter quite a lot.

The difference between Anglo-Australians [invaders/ colonisers] vis a vis Native Australians [indigenous], and (Arab) Muslims [invaders/ colonisers] vs Jews [indigenous] is this.

We Euro-Australians have, over time, recognised that what our forebears did to the natives was WRONG. We now recognise the indigenous people as our social, legal, and political equals. They are equal with us in the courts of law. They can own land. They intermarry with us: black woman white man, white woman black man. We are trying hard to remove residual racism and redress injustices.

The Canadians, New Zealanders and United States are similar: the evils of the past have been acknowledged and the human rights of the native peoples and their equality with those descended from the invaders, are fully recognised today. In Canada the Inuit have their own province, Nunavut.

Thus, the native peoples can live with us as equals in a commonwealth influenced by their culture as well as our own. In New Zealand the Maori language is recognised alongside English and many Pakeha speak Maori.

In sum: native peoples in Australia, Canada, the US and New Zealand/ Aotearoa are NOT treated and legally cannot be treated in the abominable manner in which Muslims have always treated dhimmis and as Muslims in all Muslim-dominated states *still* treat the non-Muslims (or as Arabs treat non-Arab Muslims).

Arab Muslims and Muslims generally ARE NOT (and have not been) willing to do anything like this, at all, at all, at all, toward the peoples that *they* invaded and conquered.

1. Muslims don't regard the violent Muslim conquest and cruel occupation and subjugation of the Jews and Samaritans (and of the Judeo- and Greco-Roman Byzantine Christians), as evil. They are, it appears, totally incapable of recognising that it was evil. But it *was* evil.

2. They have NO INTENTION of ever recognising the human rights of the Jews (or of any other infidels); Arab Muslims, to boot, have NEVER treated non-Arab Muslims as equals.

Muslims never accepted Jews as their legal, social or political equals in any part of the Islamospher, at any time ever - including in the land of Israel; and many Muslims have declared their full intention of, if they possibly can, either destroying the Jews of Israel altogether, or of reducing them once more to the humiliation, degradation and terror of dhimmitude.

The Jews in Israel have NEVER treated the Arabs under their authority anywhere near as badly as the Arab Muslims treated Jews, always and everywhere throughout the Islamosphere throughout its history.

The human rights of Jews in the land of Israel would never be secure, wouldn't be recognised at all, under Arab Muslim domination.

So the Jews had no alternative: if they wished to live as free human beings on their own land (where some of them had, in fact, precariously survived, all along - the land of Israel was NEVER totally Judenrein), they had to seize their chance and conduct a 'dhimmi revolution', fight for their lives and their freedom, claiming full sovereignty over part of their ancient homeland and its sacred sites.

Native Americans and native Australians and Maori didn't have to go that far; all they had to do was insist that the Anglo newcomers to their land should live up to the principles that the newcomers themselves said they believed in, such as, for example, the Golden Rule and the Ten Commandments.

Euro-Australians and Euro-Americans could never, if they wanted to be consistent with their own principles, deny the humanity of the native peoples.

Muslims routinely dehumanised the dhimmis and saw absolutely nothing wrong with doing so, because such dehumanising treatment, such cruelty and contempt and exploitation and even, periodically, mass murder, is explicitly prescribed by the sacred texts of Islam.

Omar-
I was asking you a simple question.

Why would the Nazis on trial for their lives not even think to deny what happened.

YOU CANNOT ANSWER A SIMPLE QUESTION.

Oh, and for the benefit of anyone new to this debate, I commend these two discussions of the subject of Jews vs. Muslims in the land of Israel, both published *before* the events of 1967.

The first is the landmark article "The Arabs of Palestine" by redoubtable journalist Martha Gellhorn, published in the 'Atlantic Monthly', 1961:

http://www.theatlantic.com/doc/196110/gellhorn

Omar will, of course, ignore it or heap scorn upon it - his eyes and ears and his heart of stone, poisoned by the deadly Arab supremacism of Islam which is 'humiliated' by the shocking! idea of having to live as an EQUAL with a non-Muslim rather than as as a Tyrant trampling upon a Slave, are impervious to reason, historical fact, and morality - but non-Muslim newbie visitors here may find it illuminating. Note well what she says, toward the end, about Muslims and hate.

My second item is a remarkable discussion of Islam, and the effects of Islam, and the attitudes of Muslims toward the Jews, by a Jewish writer, one A Carlebach, from his article in the Ma'ariv periodical, 7 October 1955 (Jewish Israelis who have not heard of it may like to visit a library and unearth the original).

It has been posted and re-posted at jihadwatch on various occasions, but I will post it yet again, for the benefit of anyone but newly come on board:

QUOTE

"These Arab Islamic countries do not suffer from poverty, or disease, or illiteracy, or exploitation; they only suffer from the worst of all plagues: Islam.

"Wherever Islamic psychology rules, there is the inevitable rule of despotism and criminal aggression.

"The danger lies in Islamic psychology, which cannot integrate itself into the world of efficiency and progress, that lives in a world of illusion, perturbed by attacks of inferiority complexes and megalomania, lost in dreams of the holy sword.

"The danger stems from the totalitarian conception of the world, the passion for murder deeply rooted in their blood, from the lack of logic, the easily inflamed brains, the boasting,

"and above all: the blasphemous disregard for all that is sacred to the civilized world... {for a bloodcurdling example of this blasphemous disregard, witness the hysterical adulation recently heaped by the Arab Muslim world, upon the psychopathic Samir Kuntar, who murdered a little Jewish girl in cold blood - dda}.

"their reactions -- to anything -- have nothing to do with good sense.

"They are all emotion, unbalanced, instantaneous, senseless. It is always the lunatic that speaks from their throat. You can talk 'business' with everyone, and even with the devil. But not with Allah...

"This is what every grain in this country [Israel] shouts. There were many great cultures here, and invaders of all kinds. All of them -- even the Crusaders -- left signs of culture and blossoming.

"But on the path of Islam, even the trees have died.

"We pile sin upon crime when we distort the picture and reduce the discussion to a conflict of border between Israel and her neighbors.
"First of all, it is not the truth. The heart of the conflict is not the question of the borders; it is the question of Muslim psychology.....

"Moreover, to present the problem as a conflict between two similar parts is to provide the Arabs with the weapon of a claim that is not theirs.

" If the discussion with them is truly a political one, then it can be seen from both sides.

"Then we appear as those who came to a country that was entirely Arab, and we conquered and implanted ourselves as an alien body among them, and we loaded them with refugees and constitute a military danger for them, etc. etc. ...one can justify this or that side--and such a presentation, sophisticated and political, of the problem is understandable for European minds--at our expense.

"The Arabs raise claims that make sense to the Western understanding of simple legal dispute.

"But in reality, who knows better than us that such is not the source of their hostile stand?

"All those political and social concepts are never theirs.

"Occupation by force of arms, in their own eyes, in the eyes of Islam, is not all associated with injustice.

"To the contrary, it [occupation by force of arms] constitutes a certificate and demonstration of authentic ownership.

"The sorrow for the refugees, for the expropriated brothers, has no room in their thinking. Allah expelled, Allah will care.

" Never has a Muslim politician been moved by such things (unless, indeed, the catastrophe endangered his personal status).

"If there were no refugees and no conquest, they would oppose us just the same."

END QUOTE

you don't think muslims treat jews well let's look at the west bank. look at how the idf treats the palestinians in the OCCUPIED territories and then tell me that muslims are savages and jews are pure and holy. a couple months ago a little boy was shot and killed in a peaceful protest in the west bank by the idf. look at rachel corrie. so dumbledorearmy i think you should know all the facts before you say muslims have brought nothing to civilization.
and poetcomic how many times do i have to say it i dont deny something bad happened in germany, but how do i know it was 6 million? maybe it was jut 600? that's why we should at least let people QUESTION it. why do you guys have to arrest holocaust deniers, and then cry when people laugh at the idea of banning the quran?

Yup - Omar is a Jew-hater and is using anything at all to pathetically attempt to justify his hatred.

Omar,you are consumed by your blind hatred. There is no hope for you until you let that hatred go. Do you not know that hatred like that will only ruin you in the end? It won't help you or your people. Let it go. You'll feel better. You may even learn to live a happy, productive life. If you put half the amount of energy into a positive cause as you put into your hatred, you could actually contribute something worthwhile to the world.Think about it.

This just in from Atlas Shrugs: ARABS STONE JEWISH BABY.

Did Hezbollah kick Israel's ass, Omar, or did Israel just kindly decide to wait until all the Christians are out of Lebanon before they nuke it once for all?

I heard about the holocaust, I read about the holocaust, but I did not understand the holocaust until I saw it.
No, I was not there, I saw it through the eyes of those that were there, and I saw it on captured German film. The final solution to the Jewish problem, meant cattle car rides to death camps.
A visit to Hilda meant pregnant Jewish women delivering their baby would have her legs tied together while Hilda watched with depraved excitement. And don't forget the ever popular human skin lamp shades. And how many underwent strange medical experiments including surgeries, with no anaesthesia? This is not to count countless others who were shot, beaten to death, starved to death or worked to death, or died from untreated diseases. And those showers, and those ovens.
To Americas shame, Standard Oil of NJ, and I.B Farbin, a German industrial giant (that provided gas for use in the infamous showers), went in together and opened Auschwitz...the death labor camp.
The US Congress fined Standard, it's president William Farish,(a close Bush family friend) and some others $5000.00 each for this participation in the Nazi killing machine...A year later Farish committed suicide...

Omar...
You don't seem to know when you are NOT being taken seriously...

Yep Omar America, or at least some Americans have behaved badly in the past. Some native Americans behaved badly in the past as well...Think Apache...Geronimo...scalping...That was then and this is now...And no I don't think todays Indian casino owners will trade that for any idea you come up with.

and this Omar: the genocide of their people by europeans..

This my friend is an outright lie. There was no genocide of American Indians by anyone. If that was the case, how come there are so many today?

charlie you want to talk about hatred look at what your friend jdamn said...he wants to NUKE LEBANON. youre not a very peace loving zionist jew are you jdamn? and duh swani i guess since there are "so many" native americans today (which there aren't) i guess that means that because there are so many jews (about 15 million) then there was no genocide in germany?

Actually, Dumbledoresarmy, I would disagree with your statement that "We Euro-Australians have, over time, recognised that what our forebears did to the natives was WRONG." Generally yes, the Native American genocide was abominable, except for the Spanish taking out the Aztecs. Our society, as well as that of Mexico and all of Central America, owes them a huge debt for that and I think it's a lesson we could learn from: that those who hate life, love death, and brutalize themselves and anyone they seek out (which their parasitic society always did) should simply be eliminated. Not necessarily Aztec-eliminated, but certainly Shinto-eliminated. You know what I'm talking about.

And if Muslims had legitimate educations and read legitimate history books they would know what happened to the Aztecs, the Shinto, and the Canaanites. They were simply intolerable and decent people had to rid the world of them in order to live civilly. And nobody missed them. Never did, never will.

Duh-swami, thank you!

"the jews kicked all of the palestinians out of palestine and you think that's justified by the fact that there were jews there 5 thousand years ago."

If only that were true, Omar. Just think. Israel proper, the West Bank and Gaza would be totally palestinian-free. Gaza and the West Bank would be flowers in the desert of Islam.

"look at how the idf treats the palestinians in the OCCUPIED territories and then tell me that muslims are savages and jews are pure and holy."

I thought the Jews kicked all the Palestinians out of Palestine. How is it there is even one in the "occupied" territories? Aren't Gaza (no longer occupied, by the way) and West Bank also part of Palestine?

You really need to get your story straight.

Omar -- I am part Native American. There are more of us (full-blood and part) than people (who don't bother to find out) would know.
Funny thing though -- I'm not calling for the elimination of my "white occupiers". We have lived together peacefully for centuries - some tribes never fought with the whites. Many lived togehter peacefully from the beginning. You need to read and research a lot more than you apparently do. And I still suggest you let go of your hatred - it will make you physically ill.

Further note, to non-Muslim visitors new to this site.

In the postings of 'Omar' you see three classic features of Muslim discourse when 'debating' with non-Muslims.

1. Flat-out lies and denial. Example: in one posting he tries to claim that for 5000 years [!!![ there have been NO JEWS living in the land of Israel!!! Ridiculous!!

His other Big Lie is that "the Jews kicked all the palestinians out of palestine". WRONG.

This is two lies rolled into one.

First: there is no such ethnicity as 'palestinian', unless perhaps one applies it to the Arabised Christians (who are of mixed Jewish, Syriac, Armenian and Greco-Latin Byzantine ancestry, with possibly a bit of pre-Islamic Christianised Arab thrown in).

In 1917 there lived in the Land the following:

Jews, demonstrably descended from the Jews of Jesus' time and some 2000 years before that; Samaritans, ditto;

Christians, mostly Arabised, some Greek or Armenian (refugees from the Turkish jihad genocide);

and local Arab or Arabised Muslims, indistinguishable in habits, 'culture', dress, language, religion and everything else, from all the other Arabised Muslim peoples all around them.

Of course, some of these 'palestinian' Arab/ised Muslims are in fact ethnically Slav or Turkish or Bulgarian; their forebears came to the Levant from south-east Europe because they refused to live as equals with the newly-liberated and independent non-Muslims of the Balkan region, people whom they had previously despised and oppressed. And a huge percentage of the local Arab/ised Muslims in 1947 were descended from Arab Muslims - from places like what is now Lebanon, Syria, Jordan and Egypt - who had flooded into the area during the preceding thirty years or so, attracted by Jewish and British-sponsored economic improvements.

Anyway, all those local Arab or Arabised Muslims called themselves - ARABS and MUSLIMS. If they looked beyond their clan, or their village, they saw themselves as Arab and Muslim, nothing else - like Arab Muslims all over north africa and the middle east.

And if one reads the Martha Gellhorn article, one quickly discovers that there were plenty of Arab Muslims to be found living inside pre-1967 Israel. Many left during 1947-48; but by no means all. So 'all' the local Arabs were NOT 'kicked out' : Omar's claim that they were is a barefaced lie and gross exaggeration. What really happened is that those who fled (about 500 000), did so in order to get out of a battle zone; many of them fully intending to return for the plunder party, after all the Jews were mass-murdered by the Muslim jihadi hordes. Only the Jews beat the jihadis.

So, new non-Muslim reader to this site: re-read Omar's postings. Think about them. Reflect on the lies rolled up within lies.

Remind yourself, too, that Islam says 'war is deception' and that lying to advance the power of Islam over non-Muslims, has always been acceptable. In Islamic society objective truth means NOTHING. All that matters is power and prestige and words are weapons to achieve whatever is desired. Their creed is not that much different from Voldemort's, 'there is neither good nor evil, there is only Power, and those too weak to seek it'.

2. Vicious antisemitism. Sufficiently obvious.

3. Tu quoque and turnspeak.

Let's allow G K Chesterton to sum up 'Omar' and his ilk, including many of the Arab/ised Muslims in and around the land of Israel, and indeed, including any person who seriously attempts to obey the diktats of Qur'an-Sira-Hadith and their interpreters:

"The definition of the true savage is that he laughs when he hurts you; and howls when you hurt him. "

And again:

"Certainly there can be no better summary of the savage than this, which, as we have seen, unfits him for the duel.
'He is the man who cannot love--no, nor even hate--his neighbour as himself.'"

The more fully one understands Islam, and Islamic history, the more clearly one sees that Islam does not teach nor practise the Golden Rule; it does not accept that Muslims should treat non-Muslims as they (Muslims) expect to be treated, rather, 'those who follow him [Muhammad] are ruthless to the Unbelievers but merciful to one another'. For fellow Muslims: compassion (supposedly...but look at Iraq, Somalia, Afghanistan...). For non-Muslims (unless they give in, and convert) - cruelty, harshness, ruthlessness, no pity, no quarter.

In 1948 and 1967 and 1973 a mob of ruthless Muslim supremacists who deny the Golden Rule got their sorry backsides kicked by the decent, peace-loving people they were fully intending to mass murder, rob and rape and pillage.

Me, I think the 'palestinian' Arab jihadists deserved what they got: a drubbing. I see them as thralls of one of the ugliest supremacist ideologies ever invented by humans - as ugly as Pol Pot and the Nazi and Aztec systems.

...i guess that means that because there are so many jews (about 15 million) then there was no genocide in germany?

My first impression is, "Wow! How can someone believe that unless that person is too young to remember?"

My second impression is that you ARE too young to remember.

I'll not reduce you to the "boredom" concerning the so called Holocaust of the Jewish people.

Your name is not Omar nor are you Muslim or Arab.

That is obvious.

Now, please come clean and rid yourself of the false name (misnomer) of your "handle".

Post freely under a Western handle, for that is what you are.

Stick to the subject Omar. I was talking about native Americans not Jews or Palestinians.
You lie and then perpetuate the lie...American Indians were mistreated and abused, even slaughtered in some instances...Indians murdered whites in many instances, but there was no genocide. At any rate Omar, you are making up a good deal of your rhetoric as you roll along...You have little or no credibility.

Lets talk about Quran 5:33 and how Homosexuals could be considered spreading corruption in the land. Do you advocate death for homosexuals, or do you think amputations would be adequate?

aiken i don't even know what you're talking about, but i do know i'm allowed to post under whatever name i want and yes, i am a proud muslim. i just find it funny how all of you here say that anyone who disagrees with you is a troll when you're jut trying to avoid what they're saying.
there never would have been a refugee problem if the jews never came to palestine. it's b.s. to say that it was a land without a people that needed a people without a land. there were hundreds of thousands of palestinians living there before the jewish invasion.
let's look at things this way: let's say argentina kills millions of mexicans (and we know FOR SURE the exact number of those killed). would you allow mexicans to take california, colorado, arizona etc. because they had ancestors there years ago? what would you think if the mexicans, like the jews, allowed for NO RIGHT OF RETURN?
and also aiken i'm not sure if you got my point: if there are so many millions of jews today, over half european, how could there have been a genocide?
oh and to jdamn: it's like what noam chomsky once said, the arabs have stones, the jews have american made guns.

Omar118,

Believe what you will.

My "conversation" with you is over.

Post on...

charlie - good comeback! (Nice to have a Native American on board. I hope you're spreading the counter-jihad anti-sharia message among the First Nations. They need to be warned! No pet dogs, no music, no dancing, no singing, no paintings of people and animals, no sculpture, no women walking free with with hair shining in the sunlight...that's just a sample of the horror of sharia that the jihadists want to impose upon us all. And of course: those who follow Native American spiritual beliefs would be regarded by Muslims as 'polytheists' or 'pagans', and treated even worse than the Christians or the Jews.)

Most native Australians express views similar to yours. Speaking as a non-native Australian, I am humbled by their graciousness.

(Most Aboriginal Australians are Christians today, being smart enough to distinguish between the Founder and his teachings, on the one hand, which they found attractive, and the bad behaviour, on the other hand, of some whitefella so-called 'christians'. They were also smart enough to see that things like writing, and western music, and medicine and so on, were things worth learning').

It comes down to this - what I know of Aboriginal Australian beliefs, suggests that they had a basic concept of the Golden Rule, of reciprocity and Agreement; and it seems that most native American societies also had that. Thus it was possible for the indigenous and non-indigenous peoples, in the Americas and Australia, despite our bloody 'contact history', to ultimately hammer out a modus vivendi. We're all still working on it, but we'll get there. In the end we'll create what might be called 'mestizo' societies, neither purely 'Indigenous' nor purely 'European', but - I hope - combining the very best of both.

But that's not possible for the Arab/ Muslims vis a vis *their* conquered peoples, because their ideology means they can only conceive of non-Muslims, within Muslim societies, as despised and exploited dhimmis, subhumans; the 'Arabs' even treat non-Arab Muslims as subhuman, as we see in Darfur (the Arab jihadists' pzzed off a lot of Afghan Muslims, by treating them with sneering contempt). The Arab ummah engulfs and erases, it does not accommodate.

An ex-Muslim from West Africa, now a Christian, Lamin Sanneh, in his book 'Translating the Message', explores the contrast between the European Christian approach to African languages - respect and translation - and the Arabic-is-sacred supremacism of Islam that dismisses non-arab languages as inferior and profane. V S Naipaul has remarked on this subject also: European Christian colonisers, even taking into account their many sins, were nevertheless more curious, 'open' and less destructive of native cultures, than were Muslim colonisers. Islam does not record, or preserve that which it dismisses as jahiliyya; it simply annihilates, as we see from the behaviour of Muslims vis a vis the Temple Mount, and Joseph's Tomb.

jdamn - I agree about the Aztecs - part of the reason the Spaniards took them out so easily was because they had made themselves so thoroughly hated by all their neighbours, because of their horrible behaviour, that no-one was interested in helping them.

From above:oh and to jdamn: it's like what noam chomsky once said, the arabs have stones, the jews have american made guns...

Chompsky was right, but what he failed to tell you is that, this is the natural order of things.
It is Allah's will that Arabs/muslims have stones and Jews have guns...If this is not Allah's will, who's will is it?

And Omar you did not answer my question about your opinion of 5:33 and homosexuals...Are you embarrassed by 5:33? Does 5:33 make you feel ashamed?

Omar, it would be giving Mexico to Mexicans. And of course Israelis have American guns. We can't have them using crappy Klashnikovs like a bunch of inbred, baby-raping barbarians, can we? Americans wouldn't have nukes if it weren't for the brilliant Jewish scientists Albert Einstein, Robert Oppenheimer, and Enrico Fermi, each one of whom possessed more intelligence and talent in their little fingers than the entire Ummah in its entire history combined. One hand washes the other and right does right and it does it with might. And nice math there with the 6,000,000 - x = 0, as if most of the Jews in Israel in 1948 weren't from the Islamic lands which you admitted earlier expelled them. Did you learn that at the same madrassa that taught you that 1/3 + 2/3 + 1/8 = 1 and that 340 + 0 = 360 (the number of joints in the human body)?

And Noam Chompsky, seditious douche that he is, would have punctuated his statement like a literate second-grader, a level to which you obviously don't aspire, comme ci: "American-made guns."

And there is no 'refugee problem.' There are parasites creeping around Israel who refuse to get jobs and get on with their lives even though they get more UN finding than anyone and actually live under better conditions than anyone but royalty anywhere in the Muslim world. Oh, and nice racism there, with the holding Jews to a higher moral standard than Arabs, who slaughtered millions and thousands of 'Palestinians,' respectively, in Kuwait (3 million of them) and during Black September in Jordan (8 thousand, considerably more than Israel ever killed in 60 years combined).

Did you ever wonder why only 'Palestinians' have remained 'refugees' for so long? Probably for the same reason they put their children in trenches with Hamas soldiers so that when Israel defends itself from hostile fire they pick off a few intentionally-planted (murdered by Hamas) children: because Muslims are so addicted to victimhood that they make careers out of it, which is fitting for people who aren't supposed to survive in any way other than parasitism, in following Perv Mo's example. No wonder you hate yourselves so much that you have to obsess over ridiculous lies about Jews in order to feel human. Doesn't quite do the trick, does it? But how could it, when you rape your own pre-pubescent daughters and sisters with divine sanction (K 2.223), pimp every one of them into incestuous sex slavery, beat them, mutilate them, rape them daily, and still you're not men by contrast? When you invade Israel twice and get your asses handed to you by those whom you even consider to be formidable opponents, and who end up with more land every time you f with them, so that the territories serve as shining examples forever of what happens when Goliath messes with David? When you're countries are in such backwardness and disarray that you have to constantly hearken back to a millenium ago to some invented history about how great you once were, when actually the cloak of Muhammadan darkness always follows you wherever you go, rathe rthan live in the here and now beacuse it is far, far too embarassing? When the fact that the Earth is round undoes your ridiculous ideology so they don't teach science in schools in the Muslim world, thereby rendering any Islamic-world PhD inferior to a Guatemalan 1st-grade education? When you've inbred yourselves to within 2 generations of living in zoos, maybe one in the cases of Saudi Arabia and Pakistan, but you still can't stop pimping your daughters and sisters into incestuous Sharia sex slavery beacuse without your insane, barabric traditions you have nothing, which is all you really have - besides 1500 years of catching up to do - if you're honest with yourselves?

Thank you Dumbledoresarmy -- I spread the counter-jihad anti-shariah word whenever I can. Most people are surprised by the inherent insane restriction and hatred in those concepts. It's difficult for people who don't know the facts not to equate a "religion" with hateful freedom-sucking restriction, death and destruction.

jdamn its funny how through all of your racist crap you still managed to avoid my whole point which is that jews have no right to be in palestine in the first place. i dont deny that muslims have killed a lot of people in the past, but the fact that you're basically calling all muslims savages and terrorists shows how racist you are. let's face it, a lot more people would be alive today if it weren't for the state of israel. lebanon, egypt, syria, jordan and the palestinians never would have had to have been in any wars if it weren't for israeli aggression and israeli apartheid.
to all of the people calling me an anti semite, you're just being ridiculous. i don't hate jews, but i hate zionists, because zionists hate muslims.
duh_swani there are things in the quran i don't agree with and therefore don't practice, like MILLIONS OF MUSLIMS in europe AND the middle east. you guys like to ignore the fact that most muslims hate al qaeda etc. and were angry on 9/11. you should be ashamed too of the things you zionists have done in the west bank, etc. and the war crimes in iraq (remember abu ghraib?). the fact that you, jdamn called all muslims inbred and rapists etc. just proves that the "War on terror" is really just war on muslims because it shows how you hate an entire population.

jdamn its funny how through all of your racist crap you still managed to avoid my whole point which is that jews have no right to be in palestine in the first place

Your whole point does not hold water, which is why no one here is agreeing with you...You sound like a broken record...How about that 5:33, you are ashamed aren't you. What other Quran verses are you ashamed of?

Whoops...sorry, I missed this...duh_swani there are things in the quran i don't agree with and therefore don't practice, like MILLIONS OF MUSLIMS in europe AND the middle east.

Then you are an apostate, 'like MILLIONS OF MOHAMMADANS'...That's much better your coming along just fine...So you are only a psedo muslim, picking and choosing from Allah's words what you dis-agree with, and don't practice.
What do you think Allah thinks about that? Are you worried about getting into Paradise?
I guess you reject Sharia as well, or at least parts of it. What parts of the Allah's words do you dis-agree with? I don't need to know, but Allah is interested...He reads JW you know...

duh_swami it's wrong for muslims to reform islam but jews can "pick and choose" from the old testament? i bet you there are plenty of jews that don't keep kosher and don't keep the sabbath holy. and i'm sure there are plenty of jews that don't stone homosexuals and women who've had sex before marriage, even though that's what theyre instructed to do by the old testament. again with the double standards

Israeli oppression and apartheid? Again with your racist holding Arabs to a lower moral standard than Jews. You know that Egypt built the exact same wall that Israel built for the exact same purpose - to keep 'Palestinian' savages out of their already savage but less-savage-by-contrast country? I guess that makes Egypt an apartheid state too. Oh, that's right! Egypt actually drove out all of its Jews and its Christians actually do live under apartheid. But I'm a racist. OK. Because Islam is a race, not a genocidal, supremacist, parasitic, totalitarian, BARBARIC ideology/death-cult for inbred, baby-raping, Nazi terrorists who keep their women in sex slavery their entire lives. Even Inuit, Native American, and Aborigine convicted criminals have become Muslims, Omar. Islam isn't a race. It's racist alright, and its amazing how, despite its absurd racism you still hate yourself so much that you manage to turn that racism right back on Arabs, the very ones whose altar your pray at all day. Interesting.

And if you had a 7th-grade education you would realize, like intelligent 12-year-olds do, that all of Islam's hatred and supremacy come from the inadequacies of Muslims, like your inferiority to Jews, like the weakness and stupidity of your men which is the basis of your misogyny, like the way you call blacks 'slaves' and 'raisinheads' because their civilizations were far superior to yours before you destroyed them.

And you're right that a lot fewer Middle Easterners would still be alive if they didn't mess with Israel and blow up their own children. But if you knew any history going back to even the 80s you would know that Lebanon was a Christian nation to which Iran sent their worst and slowest to overrun. But you would always find someone to take issue with. And you're idiotic enough to buy into the rhetoric of illiterate dictators who exploit the 'Palestinian' non-issue to give you a reason to feel like victims of someone other than yourselves. And it works because you're so stupid that you don't bother to learn history or read news from nations with a free press and you can't recognize a simple fact: that Israel has never started anything with anyone. And Israel was given to the Jews by God. It's only Muslims have inbred themselves to the point that they walk on all fours. But science is racism and the truth is bigotry when (everything) Muslims do makes Muslims look bad and infidels know about it and tell each other with our free press, free speech, freedom of assembly, and literacy, like civilized human beings in the year 2008. Of course Muslims hate freedom. It's as embarrassing to you as history and science.

Go make out with the floor of a mosque again, dude, and contract another million strains of foot fungus on your inbred hands and face.

"...Jews can pick and choose.... wha wha wha. Onmar you are sounding like a jealous brat little brother who says "Well so-and-so gets to do it so why can't I?" but you don't even have your facts straight. You are hopeless - you seem to enjoy being hopeless. If you are representative of other Palestinians I don't know why the Israelis have put up with you AT ALL for as long as they have. Maybe because they have mercy? and a faith that tells them to do otherwise?

Omar...I was not talking about Jews or Christians, I was talking about you. 'You' are an apostate if you don't tow the mark on Allah's words and Mohammad's examples. Allah wrote a book...In it he made it clear how he wanted muslims to act in his name. If you alter that, which you have apparently done, you have changed your religion and are an apostate. Mohammad was very clear on what to do with those who change their religion.
I don't mind that you are an apostate, in fact I applaud it, but I don't think Allah likes it much.
Now that you know you are an apostate, it should be easy to clear up all these misconceptions you have about Jews and Israel...

Jews have every right to be in eretz Israel, which is what they called it (along with the alternative name, 'Canaan') for 2000 years before the Romans came along and tried to rename it 'Palestine'; and it is what Jews everywhere have always called it; and Jews have been living there, in large or smaller communities, from Roman times to the present day, continually in contact with, and frequently visited and assisted by, their brethren in the diaspora, both within 'Christendom' and within the rest of the Islamosphere.

During the period of Muslim imperial domination, diaspora Jews used to pass round the hat to help their brethren in the land of Israel pay the enormous amounts of extortionate 'protection' money demanded of those Jews by Muslim overlords.

Incidentally, under the Muslims it wasn't called 'palestine' or treated as a unit; it was broken up into blocks that fell under different administrations and had various names.

The Temple Mount is a Jewish sacred site, always was, always will be. So is the Cave of Machpelah, the Cave of the Patriarchs - which the selfish supremacist Muslim authorities prevented Jewish pilgrims from entering, for SIX HUNDRED YEARS 1267-1967; so are Caleb's Tomb, Rachel's Tomb in Bethlehem, and Joseph's Tomb in Shechem.

All Jewish - and Christian - holy places in the land of Israel LOOONG pre-date Islam and the Arab/ Mamluk/ Turkish Muslim occupation.

All the Christian holy places, associated with Jesus/ Yeshua, are essentially Jewish, because Jesus/ Yeshua of Nazareth, born in Bethlehem, died outside Jerusalem, was and is a Jew. They are historical as well as 'religious'; they deal with events within recorded history.

The Muslim claims upon all Jewish and Christian holy places in the land of Israel are baseless. Pure hogwash. Based upon nothing, nothing but seizure by brute force.

Muslims have no 'right' to the land of Israel whatever, except by violent conquest. Neither Arabs nor Turks, both johnny-come-latelys, can claim an ancestral ethno-spiritual connection to that piece of land, comparable to the depth and longevity of the Jewish connection.

The Arab Muslims in and around Israel are like thieves who are weeping and wailing and crying for 'justice!!' - because the rightful owner sneaked into their garage and got away with his own car that they'd stolen, and has now got a lock on his own garage, and a rifle, to prevent them from pulling off the theft a second time.

The Jewish victims eventually, at long last, shook off dhimmitude and fought back and succeeded in forcing the Arab Muslims to disgorge a portion of the Ummah's ill-gotten gains.

In so doing, the formerly dhimmi Jews (reinforced by their brethren returning from exile) did no different from the Spaniards, the Sicilians, the Greeks, the Serbs, the Bulgarians and the Indians; or the Europeans at Vienna, 1683. And I do most earnestly pray that the Papuans will ultimately succeed in booting out the Muslim Indonesians, that the Thais will get serious about smashing the jihad in the southern provinces, and that the Filipinos will hammer the jihadis in Mindanao right into the ground.

This is not about inter-ethnic conflict. This is not about 'racism'. Islam is not a race, not an ethnos: it is a belief system, a geopolitical cult. It was probably cooked up to sacralise and rationalise Arab attacks upon, conquests and ruthless exploitation of non-Arabs but it has taken on, to a certain extent, a dreadful life of its own.

The defence of Israel, like the defence of all the kafir lands threatened by jihad, is about rolling back, and limiting, the de facto 'empire of Islam', that is, the sphere of influence of a deadly ideology that, so far, has directly mass-murdered, at a rough estimate, some two hundred and seventy million human beings, most of them black Africans or Indians, and has enslaved and tortured and robbed and gang raped millions more.

Arab Muslims within Israel who apostasise and sincerely convert to Christianity, or to secularism, or for that matter, to Buddhism, or even Judaism! - and thus renounce the jihad/sharia imperative and Arab supremacism, are - I am sure - more than welcome to reside as peaceful citizens within the Jewish state, enjoying full civil and legal equality. The problem is not their Arab genes - it's the 'Islam meme' inside their heads.

duh_swani there are things in the quran i don't agree with and therefore don't practice, like MILLIONS OF MUSLIMS in europe AND the middle east.

Huh, so I guess you admit that the Koran isn't the eternal word of God for all people for all time and that raping your retarded 6-year-old niece, for example, might have passed for tolerable in a 7th-century Arabian society (but not a pre-Islamized one, mind you, like marrying your daughter-in-law and attacking unarmed women and children in unprovoked night raids and systematically raping and enslaving them) which was 3,000 years behind the rest of the world at the time doesn't work so well for anyone today, just like it didn't even work for five minutes back then unless they had new land to conquer and new people to parasitize. Then you agree that it's just some random, made-up craziness and that God wouldn't be so sick and retarded as to contradict himself all over the place, screw up simple math, confuse Jesus with Esau and Mary with Miriam and have them all living up the street from Noah within a five year period, say that the Earth is flat, that the stars are arrows to be shot at at Satan, that meteor showers are also arrows being shot at Satan/jinns, that the sun revolves around the Earth and sets in a muddy puddle, that the sky is solid and held in place by mountains, that menstruation is a disease, that the moon is a lamp, that sperm are produced all throughout the human body (both male and female) and stored in the kidneys, that 340 + 0 = 360, that 1/3 + 2/3 + 1/8 = 1, that camel urine and fly wings have lots of proven medicinal benefits, and, of course, that women are genetically inferior, mentally retarded, inherently immoral, filthy creatures, literally dirtier than dirt, who are actually cattle but who are still beneath camels on the food chain, who must not be allowed to exist except as the outright property (slave) of some man, and who are designed for nothing but sex, breeding, cooking, and being traded as sex slaves by their fathers, brothers, and husbands? Because holding any of these beliefs would unequivocally preclude admission into any private kindergarten in the free world, Omar.

Glad to hear you admit that Islam is a crock. Now will you admit that it's disgusting, creepy, racist, sexist, pedophilic, and barbaric, like everything else you've said in here today? And that, out of respect for decency and reality, Israelis are entitled to Israel and they don't have to defend their right to exist? That women, Jews, blacks, and gays are your equals? That little girls shouldn't be raped, mutilated, and pimped into incestuous Sharia sex slavery? That the American Constitution is far, far superior to Sharia law?

Thought experiment.

Imagine - per miraculum - all the Arab Muslims in Gaza, Judea and Samaria becoming secularists (like Ali Sina or Wafa Sultan), Christians (like Nonie Darwish), or Buddhists, or (let's enter the realms of sci fi) Judaism. Since among their ancestors there are probably people who 'caved' under Arab Muslim pressure and gave up on Judaism, Christianity, or old-fashioned Arab paganism, they'd merely be bringing their meme into line with their genes, and stopping with the crazy ideologically-based war against their own non-caving kin.

The Fence would come down. The checkpoints would disappear. The Temple Mount would be freely visited by everybody at all times without fear; ditto all the other shrines. Gaza, Judea and Samaria would be Christian or secular areas, with large townships of Jews; the rest of Israel would be mostly Jewish, with large non-Muslim Arabised communities peacefully minding their own business and engaged in productive work instead of plotting, seething and rioting.

The land of Israel would be pretty much what it was in Byzantine times: a majority-Jewish area with large non-Jewish communities, only without the Byzantine pogroms against Jews and sans the internal Muslim Arab jihad raids as well.

Of course, even if the Ummah thus lost its ocal 'shock troops', its Sudetendeutsch equivalent, it would continue jihad against Israel, and against all the other kafir lands, unabated.

omar:
If you don't hate Jews, only Zionists, why is it that the mosques here in Israel of Fridays can be heard preaching "Kill the Jews" and not "Kill the Zionists"?

As for your claim I have no right to be here, I would point out to you first that even the Qur'an recognizs that Israel is OUR Land, the Land of the Jews. This is our land, has been our land for 4000 years approximately, since the days of Avraham Avinu. If you are a devut Muslim, you should also grant our claim to this Land because the Qur'an acknowledges it. If you claim land by right of conquest, we have won this land in war many times and most recently in the war of 1948 and its sequels we took some of it back in war. If you claim land belongs to the oldest population living continuously in a given land, here that is us-- the Jews. If you claim the land is claimed by Western law, then this is our Land by UN recognition. If you claim land can only be purchased, Avraham Avinu BOUGHT this land and our Law [Torah] forbids us to sell it or give it away, one of the problems I have with my gov't. Finally, to me, this land is ours because G-d said so in Torah-- millenia before Hertzel ever existed to dream up Zionism. Anyway you slice it, this Land is ours.

The irony is that Torah demands we let anyone live here in peace who is willing to abide by civilized laws. Yet, the "Palestinians" (non-citizens by choice) and increasingly Arab Israelis (citizens by choice) CHOOSE not to do so. If we ever DO start "oppressing" Arabs, it will be because they give us no choice. All you have to do to stay and be free in Israel is choose to do so. Yet in area of Aza and the Shomron Arabs control-- let alone other countries-- I and others like be cannot live.

Oh, and before you try the garbage about Europe and the Shoa, I'm not from Europe, nor were my parents, grandparents, etc. I'm sfardi.

Charlie, duh swami - thanks for your cool heads and quiet humour. I really like you guys.

I've much appreciated your incisive asides in this stoush with the Mohammedan Boggart.

We're not supposed to feed trolls - but this exchange should at least have ensured that any new non-Muslim reader to the site has now been exposed to a few facts and sources re. the jihad against Israel, and historic Muslim attitudes toward and mistreatment of Jews, that he or she may not previously have encountered.

Two more such sources are worth mentioning: Walter Clay Lowdermilk's 'Palestine: Land of Promise' and John Roy Carlson's brilliant piece of undercover reporting, 'From Cairo to Damascus' (1951). Duh swami, charlie - have you read Carlson's book? Jdamn, have you? I think, if you haven't, all three of you would find it most enjoyable and informative. I bought a copy after hearing Hugh Fitzgerald recommending it time and again, and I have not regretted the purchase.

On topic. Right at the beginning of the thread, I expressed a shoutout to all Indian posters and lurkers - I'd love to hear what people like Vikrant and Ayo Gorkhali would make of this report about the riots in Acre.

So much of it: the way it started, a blatant Muslim provocation raid on the holiest Jewish day, the Jewish response (much, much more restrained than the Muslim response would have been to a similar provocation), then (with that Jewish response as pretext) the Muslim insta-mob with mosque loudspeakers blaring incitement, rampaging through the Jewish area smashing things and howling 'kill the Jews!' 'allahu akhbar'; then a non-dhimmi grassroots Jewish response in force, followed by clueless moral equivalence from the dhimmified Jewish police and other authorities, and a taqiyya pity party from the Muslims - is just SOOO much like the way this sort of thing happens in India when you have 'communal tensions' between Muslims and Hindus.

The pattern is *so* similar that it's eerie.

To me, as an Australian, it also resembles what happened during the 'Cronulla riots' a few years back.

1. Muslims harass, insult and bully non-Muslims for years and years; local non-Muslims being tolerant and peaceable put up with it, and put up with it, but get gradually crosser and crosser

2. Muslims 'cross a line' deliberately, testing the waters, by insulting something particularly significant to non-Muslims (in Israel, driving fast down a street on Yom Kippur with car radio blaring; in Australia, bashing a surf life saver [Aussie icon, hugely respected personage] for daring to remonstrate with Muslim thugs who were harassing Aussie girls

3. Non-Muslims, having HAD ENOUGH, mount a substantial response, though still with remarkable restraint, all things considered.

4. Now being able to claim 'self-defence', Muslim insta-mobs are summoned (directed from mosque aka Headquarters) and descend in huge numbers on kafir area yelling allahu akbar, to smash cars, burn churches, bash up random kafir victims.

5. Police and politicians almost totally ignore the original Muslim act of provocation and over-the-top violent rioting; focus on item 3 and spend most of their time trying to condemn and restrain the non-Muslims.

I think Hitler, when conducting his takeover of Germany, and his attack on Czechoslovakia, either consciously or unconsciously modelled his tactics on Mohammed's recipe for how to get away with major bullying and aggression whilst playing the victim.

first off stop calling me a mohammedan, muslims do not worship Mohammad (pbuh) because he was a human being, NOT GOD. ever read Quran 60:8 which says "God forbids you not, with regards to those who fight you not for you faith nor drive you out of your homes, from dealing kindly and justly with them; for God loveth those who are just".
you should know that you "peace loving zionists" are NOT peace lovers at all. ever heard of menachim begin? he said that palestinians are beasts on two legs. not a very holy thing to say, is it? now i agree with the fact that SOME muslims say dumb things about non muslims. i, and nearly the ENTIRE MUSLIM POPULATION do NOT agree with them, which is why so many muslims live in peace with europeans and, sorry to say, but your anti-muslim group is small, weak, and constantly laughed at. if you want to quote some muslims and use the crap they say to represent all muslims, lets look at the ultra orthodox rabbis who HATE you zionist scum and say the current state of israel its anti-jewish. if God gave you the land of israel why would he let you all get kicked out of it thousands of years ago, and now have to use the UN in order for you to have it back. speaking of the UN why do you only listen to them when they give you the right to exist but CONSTANTLY ignore when they condemn you for your illegal occupation of the west bank?

Dumbledoresarmy, I've actually learned quite a lot from your posts in here tonight. I lost my cool head when I read about the baby-stoning on Atlas Shrugs. I know those police knew about about it and still dismissed it and focused on the Jews. I'm still not over, nor will I ever be, Samir Kuntar killing a four-year-old girl with his (probably UN-funded) rifle butt. And Muslims rioting in India is one thing, but in a land where they are basically visitors and are only welcome so long as they are friendly, well, that's just so far outside of what I can stomach.

I actually have read 'From Cairo to Damascus,' and it's an amazing book. I love the parts about young modern Israel. Our grandparents are the Greatest Generation, and those cats were just even greater. They're the heroes of the free world more than the US's founding fathers, and they resurrected a fragmented, diaspora, nearly-annihilated culture and made it beautiful. It's also very sad because I know globalization and Islamization have completely removed all the interesting aspects of all those Muslim societies which still to some extent hung onto their pre-Islamized cultures, like dancing, music, poetry, and scholarship in Egypt and the Phoenecian/French/original Christian culture in Lebanon. It also proves that there was just nothing where 'Palestine' is now. The Nazi/Muslim connection is also well-documented in there.

I just hate being called a racist by a racist and an oppressor by someone who would happily slash my throat just for living with dignity as a woman and respecting the truth. And I hate parasites playing the victim card, operating on the assumption that we lack basic primary-school educations and will therefore buy into their crap. I also hate when people use the 'Palestinians' - which is why they're there: to be exploited for rhetorical and PR purposes - to explain why decent people are evil and evil people are justified in their evil, leaning of course on logical fallacies, outright lies, and made-up Pallywood BS.

Talk about not answering questions, Omar. So Islam is made-up crap, right? See my above post. AND RESPOND TO IT.

Muslims do worship Muhammad and his displaced narcissistic personality/opportunistic alibi Allah. One and the same, Mohemmetan. And Muhammad was as patently subhuman as they come in every imaginable way. I've seen badgers who were more human than Muhammad. Begin was right that 'Palestinians' are beasts on two legs. But Israelis, unlike Kuwaitis, Jordanians, and Egyptians, are still so kind as to not shoot them on sight. God took the land from the Jews and gave it back to them to show the world what Muslims are made of and who God really loves. It's foundational to the story, but you would have to read to learn about that.

You know, Omar, if your SHIFT key is broken you have a spare still. And don't forget to admit that either you abide by every textual Islamic teaching and are in fact an incestuous, baby-raping, 'adulterer'-stoning (you all never bothered to look up what 'adulterer' meant, but it's not someone who engages in consentual relationships independently of incestuous Sharia sex slavery) barbarian who believes the Earth is flat and 1/3 + 2/3 +1/8 = 1, or Islam is insane, made-up, evil crap. That's the problem with an inherently findamentalist doctrine that explicitly doesn't allow for 'bit'a' and claims to hold true for all people for all time (but only works when people inbreed themselves back into monkeydom somehow): it is so easily disproven and dismissed. Just like you and every one of you.

jdamn you and others say that israel belongs to the jews because God says so. unfortunately most israelis aren't quite as religious as you are. just look at their abortion rate, among the highest in the world. face it, israelis don't give a crap about the state of israel, the just need a country for themeselves because EVERY country where jews lived they were hated. also jdamn, i love the Quran and live by it. from your logic your saying that over 1 BILLION muslims across the world are phonies just because they don't kill non muslims. well we beg to differ, i consider myself a good muslim, i try to follow the 5 pillars of Islam. by the way jdamn like i said earlier, if you are the ones God truly loves then why is ISLAM the fastest growing religion? why did God let HEZBOLLAH kick israel's ass in 2006?

Omar118,
You can have the qur'an and islam. A simple solution to islamofacists like you is a bullet between the eyes. Your take on history is wrong about the arabs being there "first." Abortion? How do YOU explain female genital mutilation, the persecution of any other religion other than islam
in islamic countries, see Iraq for very recent murders and persecution of Christians. The subjigation and second class status of women who are muslims. How about some answers from you?? Pay a jizra and we will let you live, maybe? Sharia law? That is a fair and just system? You hide behind a book, the qur'an that states for muslims to go out and kill the Jews, and anyone else who does not convert to your cult. Remember the the part about the rocks and trees will cry out"there is a jew behind me, come kill them." Not word for word exact, but it is there and you CANNOT explain that away.

One BILLION idiots like you around the globe are still stuck in the past because you and your ilk "love the qur'an. Most conflicts around the world involve islam and muslims so don't cry to us
about being misunderstood. Europe? They would be speaking German if was not for the U.S. and if they laugh at us, so be it. They can bail themselves out of the fire next time. That fire is and will be continue to be caused by "the religion of peace, islam." Live in peace with the Europeans? Only because you subvert all laws that
"unfair and undiversified" towards muslims. You take over countries from within via lawsuits and
threatening the weak, socailists wussies in Europe
until muslims get their way. The U.S. IS NOT like Europe, Omar.I and MANY others do not take our freedoms and liberties for granted or lightly.
Ever heard the saying "Don't Tread on Me"? I am sure we can easily come up with over one billion bullets.

Israel and the Jews are The Chosen People and shall flourish, islam shall perish from the Earth as "allah" is Satan and muhammad was his demon messenger. muslims are a scourge upon this planet and in this universe (Hell included).

first off stop calling me a mohammedan, muslims do not worship Mohammad (pbuh) because he was a human being, NOT GOD.

Omar,

Given that Mohammed was a human being, why is no one allowed to draw a picture of him or make fun of him without being threatened by mohammedans?

As you say, he is NOT GOD.

These were obviously peaceful demonstrations of civil disobediance. Code Pink is probably helping these Peace Lovers make signs.

Great responses PMK, jdamn, PatriotUSA, sheik, dda, MosheC, Charlie, duh-swammi, and all who responded to this ‘troll’ as thick as a post. I’m usually against feeding the trolls (like “don’t feed the animals”) but in this case it was most instructive to all who read here. I don’t know whether or not God gave any piece of land to anybody, but resisting the evil injustices of this primitive Cult of Allah is our universal right. We are doing it for their own good as well as ours, though they do not know it. You have done it with grace and abundant knowledge. Thanks!

all of your comments just show how racist and bigoted you all are. spencer and others always say that they ALWAYS mention that they realize most muslims are peaceful, but there is a minority that does violence. you just called for the COMPLETE GENOCIDE OF 1/6 OF THE WORLDS POPULATION! its now obvious that you're just murderous lying scum. you said you were different from the nazis because you dont want to kill all muslims, just terrorists...but it's nice to see that you think all muslims are terrorists. the Quran allows me to defend myself when i feel i am threatened. i never threatened you but it is clear you want to kill me, my family, friends and neighbours. it's people like YOU that cause wars.

"The Quran allows me to defend myself when I feel like I am threatened ... it's clear you want to kill me...YOU people cause wars." Omar

Isn't this just perfect? This really is a learning experience, esp. for new readers. Omar has just provided at least one perfect example of twisted logic, and Quran-backed violence. Maybe he can continue this education by answering this question:

Omar - please explain what you mean by "defend yourself." How exactly would you plan to do that?

charlie--if i know people like you plan on killing 1 billion people, then i'd kill those people first. IT'S IN THE JEWISH BIBLE. also, i forgot to mention to the person who talked about us not being allowed to draw Muhammad (pbuh): JEWS ARENT ALLOWED TO DO THAT EITHER! they can't draw moses david etc. even though some of them DO but they aren't allowed to.

So, Omar, you describe "self-defense" as killing others first. Do you mean in a hnd-to-hand combat situation, or kill them any time, any way that you can, as long as you kill them first?

I'm late in on this, I know. But DDA more than once asked for the Indians' take on the Acre riots. They may may not have answered for (as far as I can guess) 3 reasons: 1. They may be feeling embarrassed for India's record of rioting (understandable). 2. It's the Hindus' festive season these days, what the Christmas season is for Infidels of another kind. 3. The exchanges between Omar118 and some others had gotten a bit shrill at times; any other posting would have sounded OT.

But here's my view on the riots in Acre. They were waiting to happen. It was Ahmedabad one day, Acre now. It can be in any Eurabian country tomorrow. The ingredients are all there. Some nitwit has only to turn the oven on.

If Europe has been spared rioting so far, it is because of the deep, almost ingrained respect the people have for law and order (this is most notable in the Nordic countries). The average native European does not share the contempt for law and order as the average Indian.

A succession of dhimmified and PC lawmakers is working hard to rectify that, however.

Unless something dramatic changes the prevailing circumstances, I for one will not be surprised WHEN (not IF) rioting breaks out in, say, London, Bradford, Paris et al.

Omar116,
Boo Hoo, are we picking on you? It is the ACTIONS of your fellow muslims that are terrorists, killers, mutilators of women that makes many of us suspicious and untrusting of islam and muslims.
Your buddies fly airplanes full of INNOCENT people
into buildings on OUR turf, and you wonder why we
do not want islam, sharia law and the dhummi way of life that you find so pleasing?

Again, do your homeowrk and you will find most global conflicts, wars, INVOLVE and were started by islam and muslims. Your cult is the cause of war, your whining about our laws and rules may cause a war here against losers like you. Instead of coming into this country and learning our laws,
language, rules and how our society runs, you cry like babies and behave like spoiled brats to force YOUR RELIGION, SHARIA LAW ands dhummitude way of second class citizenry(SP?) upon us, against our will! You are unable to grasp this about us here in the USA. Don't like it or us, get the hell out. Let see how far you would get in an islamic country pulling this garbage with your friendly mullahs and imams? Hatred and intolerance is preached from mosques around the world and where are the moderate muslims? You call us racists and nazis instead of answering our challeneges to your stupidity and pathetic loyalty to your love of the qu'ran and the "POINTS" you try to defend.

Israeli's DO NOT TARGET INNOCENT women, chilren and men. Israeli's do not hide missle launchers inside neighborhoods or school yards. Your fellow
arabs do this all the time in gazastan. The palestinians are pawns being used by the almost all islamic countries in the world, against Israel. Not ONE islamic country has offered to accept these fellow muslims into their respective countries. Look in the mirror and you will see the problem, Omar. Do I want to kill your family, you or your friends? NO, I do not BUT I will defend mine and otheres freedoms and liberties when we wre attacked and threatened. islam and muslims cannot live in PEACE with the rest of the world, Omar because islam dictates conversion to islam or be killed, and that is what is stated in many places in the qu'ran. Your and your fellow muslims are FREE to leave as soon as you can since you cannot assimilate with us into this country.

Oman: Islam is not a race, so discrimination against it cannot be called racism. Neither could killing all of said group be called Genocide (at least, I had thought the word "genocide" is tied to race, I could be wrong though), if anything it would be Religousism(Real word?).

However, no one is actually saying all Muslims should be killed, but is a reaction to what we see in the Quoran, and the actions of the followers of the book as a threat against us and the assertion that we can and will defend ourselves. Nothing more or less. You on the other hand deny that the holocaust was that bad (And there IS documentation if you care to look to show many Jews thousands died as well as homosexuals) which makes you seem either a (anti-Semite) racist or just ignorant.

Omar118- You seem to have a real hang up with Jews. If you were a true Human Being, it would not matter who your neighbor is.

It would be difficult to find a Human Being anywhere in the World who ever wormed to the notion of being looked down upon, thought ill of, or spat upon. So it would only be Human to resist those who ho chose to treat others in that manor. Especially if the inspiration comes from Scripture. Apparently, Islamic scripture instructs you to conduct yourself so. For you to think or act otherwise makes you just as Guilty before Allah as the Jew or Christian who has, say, an Abortion. But why let yourself get hung up on petty details.

Being the pious Muslim you project yourself to be, should be explanation enough why you have Stones and we have Cylons.

By the way, Stones are not meant to be flushed down the Toilet.

A little Brain teaser for you.

Is it better for a Muslim to abort their Children, or to give Birth and teach them to Kill themselves?