Just like his former advisor, who recently stepped down. "Obama Muslim Outreach Coordinator Under Fire for Meeting With Extremists," from Fox News, October 10:
Barak Obama's Muslim outreach adviser is under fire for meeting with Islamic groups with extremist views, just months after her predecessor resigned for links to a radical cleric.Minha Husaini met with members of several Islamic organizations in Virginia on September 15 -- including some that terrorism experts say have ties to Hamas and the radical Muslim Brotherhood.
Among the attendees were senior members of the Council on American-Islamic Relations, which was listed by federal prosecutors as an unindicted co-conspirator in a terror-related trial.
Several people connected to CAIR have been convicted of felonies -- including on terrorism-related charges.
CAIR bills itself as the nation's largest Muslim civil-rights advocacy group. As recently as last year, it advised the Transportation Security Administration on sensitivity training regarding Muslim air travelers. Nihad Awad, a CAIR co-founder and executive director, met with President Bush in the aftermath of 9/11.
But critics say CAIR has a long history of masquerading as a moderate Islamic group.
"These groups, even if they themselves are not active terrorist organizations, do subscribe to large amounts of the ideology that fuels the terrorism that we are being confronted with," said Andrew McCarthy, former Assistant U.S. Attorney.
CAIR did not return repeated calls for comment.
Awad, who was at the September meeting with Husaini, recently attended a dinner with Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad.
Also present at the Sept. 15 meeting was Mahdi Bray, who has publicly announced his support for the terrorist groups Hamas and Hezbollah. Bray, the executive director of the Muslim American Society Freedom Foundation, raised his fist in the air during a rally in Washington in October 2000 to demonstrate his support for the terror groups.
Bray refused to comment on the recent gathering. "It was a closed meeting," he told FOX News.
Johari Abdul Malik, imam of the Dar Al-Hijrah Mosque in Falls Church, Va., also participated in the meeting. During a conference in Chicago in 2001, he told attendees, "You can blow up bridges, but you cannot kill people who are innocent on their way to work." In November 2004 he told followers, "You will see Islam move from being the second largest religion in America -- to being the first religion in America."
Obama campaign spokesman Ben LaBolt said the campaign would not have sent a representative to the meeting had it known the list of participants.
"This meeting was not organized by the campaign -- our outreach staff attends many meetings in the course of each day and they accepted an invitation from community leaders to attend," LaBolt told FOX News in a written statement.
The Obama campaign's previous Muslim outreach advisor, Mazen Asbahi -- who stepped down in August following reports he was linked to a radical imam -- also attended the meeting.
In a brief telephone conversation, Asbahi refused to discuss why he was at the meeting or whom he was representing.
According to LaBolt, "[Asbahi] is not an employee of the campaign and does not speak on behalf of the campaign."
God help us if Obama becomes president. It seems that everyone he associates with is a hooligan. Why are people so blind when it comes to this man?
I don't believe that they are blind as much as they refuse to see.
I posted on a British Forum not so long ago in a discussion about Obama.
I specifically spoke of his mentor Rev Jeremiah Wright, the black racist, anti American mentor of Obama, his relationships with Islam, his links with Extremists such as Louis Farrakhan, his not wearing an American Flag Lapel Badge, his not standing with his hand on his heart at the playing of the Anthem and of course his wife stating she hated America until her husband ran for election and all I got was the usual: you're a racist, this is typical right wing smearing of a man who is innocent of all charges against him, blah, blah, blah.......
What I can see is the same situation happening in America as what happened in the UK. They elected Tony Blair and the Americans loved him. Obama has strong similarities in that he has a presence and is also a good Orator. However, all I can think of is 'The Emperor's New Clothes' and the opening up of America to yet more Political Correctness, oppression of the majority of Americans under it, more 'race laws' and 'minority' laws and of course dialogue with Islamists and bargaining.
He will sell America out to the Extremists and the Muslims, as Blair and Brown have done here in the UK to the Muslims and Europe. I'm amazed how people can vote for Obama. I'm amazed that Americans can back people for President because of fancy footage, fancy music and of course the guy with the low voice who does the Hollywood Blockbuster adverts on TV. Obama will seriously screw up the USA and watch as the 'white man' starts to suffer under him. It's guaranteed to happen. I wouldn't be surprised if Black Americans all receive hefty payouts for the 'slave trade', even though none of them were ever involved.
Maybe it's time that schools in America and the UK started making Hans Christian Anderson necessary reading. After all, they'll be bringing in the 'Arabian Fairy Tale' as necessary reading in schools soon, so why not bring in another to counteract the battle of the fairy tales?
Anyone who thinks President Bush doesn't "get" Islam (this would include me, though I'm not on board with the Bush haters either) should consider BO's understanding of Mohammed's creed. He's at least as clueless as Bush about Islam's ultimate intentions and far more ready to exculpate the Islamic nutjobs via the tired old excuses, disguised as arguments, of poverty, unemployment, so-called legitimate grievances against the West, blah, blah, blah. The greatest empty suit in American political history, whom the liberals here at home, and the Europeans en masse, foolishly adore, functions as the ultimate useful idiot for Islamic designs on the West. Very Orwellian. Not good.
They would not have sent a representative had they known who was going to be there???
This is as lame an excuse as telling the Teacher the dog ate your homework.
How many times does Obama and his employees have to show their "ignorance" of who they "pal around with" before the Majority of the voters get a clue?
If ones "judgment" is such an issue with this Election, Obama shows a complete lack thereof.
Someone really needs to start throwing some abrasives into the Fan in front of Obama His Teflon gets needs to become scratched enough so the S--T starts to stick to him.
There is more scum around Obama than a stagnant pond on a Dairy Farm.
Hey Mark,
Since you believe the US government perpetrated 9-11, Obama has to be an improvement.
In case anyone missed it, Mark is a "troofer" who believes the US and British governments were responsible for 9-11 and 7-7 respectively.
MARK: "However what I find really sad is that there is a very strong possibility that the attacks on 9/11 were Government planned and executed, the same as here in the UK on 7/7."
Such a person will certainly be an invaluable asset in the anti-Jihad.
Wow Cornelius, what a moron,
I'm glad you posted it as I said "There is a very strong possibility....." and not as you said "since you believe the government perpetrated 9/11..."
You are the icing on the cake of the NeoCon, the complete buffoon, who would follow your Republican leaders blindly into Hell.
Unlike you(thankfully) I tend to look at the situation and assess it. I don't pick a political party and then follow them around with my tongue up my arse like a lovesick puppy.
I'm neither a Conservative, a Liberal or a Left Winger. In American terms it would mean I wouldn't vote for any American Political Party either.
Why?
Simple really. Parties in America and the UK don't give a flying sh*t about the people. All they care about are the spondoolas and lots of them. You will stand there waving your flags talking of how great would be Presidential Candidates are, while I'll sit back and laugh, thinking that the Mental Institutions are really way behind on sections and Full, Frontal Lobotomies.
If you've ever bothered to read anything I've written you'll see just what I think of Islam.
You're just the typical, ignoramus, who can't see the wood for the trees. You're no worse than a Muslim in that you decry my freedom of speech, that happens to see serious discrepancies in 9/11 and 7/7. You're like Bush; "If you don't agree with me then you're my enemy".
There was no need to bring up that as I explained myself fully in the past as I have done on this one about Obama and even though I say "Obama will seriously screw up the USA...." you still think I would prefer him to Bush.
Did I just hear 'taxi' for Cornelius?
Last post to you Cornelius as you're only here to start arguments with me.
MARK: "Unlike you(thankfully) I tend to look at the situation and assess it."
RESPONSE: And you've "assessed" that the US and British governments perpetrated 9-11 and 7-7. Your powers of perception are truly profound.
Considering your bizarre propensity for for the most detestable conspiracy theories around, you might exercise restraint in throwing around adjectives of "moron" and "complete buffoon" when referring to others.
By the way, if the US and British govt's are the terrorists, why are you worried about Muslims?
Mark: If you really do think it possible that the United States government perpetrated 9/11 you are, quite simply, a fool. 9/11 is actually one of the best documented monumental crimes of history. You might as well deny that the Nazis perpetrated the Holocaust as deny that nineteen Arab monsters, with their religion of hate as the root cause, carried out the despicable deeds of seven years ago on American soil. Remember, the vast majority of conspiracy theories are put forward by amateurs with way too much time on their hands. And virtually without exception such theories are completely bogus.
That the Obama campaign still thinks it not wildly imprudent, and simply wrong, even to have a "Muslim Outreach Advisor," shows a miscomprehension of several things.
It shows a miscopmprehension of the texts and tenets of Islam.
It shows a miscomprehension of how Muslims intend not to be truly integrated into American society, but to use their position -- and their ability to influence the political system -- to undo that very system, to change policies to make them so that they overlap with, rather than flaty contradcit, the Shari'a.
It shows a miscomprehension of the electorate, that before the election -- and certainly after it, if Obama is elected -- needs to be greatly reassured, and in a thousand ways, that Barack Obama is not, as many fear, sentimentally attached, or otherwise attached, to Islam, and incapable of understanding that it is a Total Belief-System, and its politics and geopolitics, not the Five Pillars of individual worship, constitute a permanent danger to all non-Muslims and their political and legal institutions.
One would have thought he, and his advisors, would be keenly, supremely aware, of at least the last consideration. That they think, under the circumstances, that it is just fine, perfectly swell to have a "Muslim Outreach Advisor" tells us a great deal, none of it reassuring, none of it good.
Wellington,
What I find to be exceptionally amiss here is that:
1. The major discrepancies of 9/11(too long to list here, but you can find them on many websites dealing with the lies behind 9/11).
2. The War in Afghanistan was planned long before 9/11.
3. Why did America and the UK invade Iraq, nothing whatsoever to do with Al Qaeda and the attacks on 9/11 and better still, Saddam was a criminal in the eyes of Bin Laden and other Islamists. There were no WOMD and Saddam never posed any danger to the West. Incidentally, the 2nd war in Iraq had been planned not long after the first invasion.
The bottom line Wellington, you can say what you want. America and Britain, behaved despicably, resulting in the deaths of hundreds of thousands and the destruction of many millions of Iraqis livelihoods. They brought Civil War into Iraq and closer to Islamisation than ever it was under Saddam. Bush and Blair should be tried for War Crimes as it was their orders that resulted in ALL of the deaths.
I agree there is a big problem with Islam but there is also a big problem with Governments and those who control our countries. They're both as bad as each other and people like you and Cornelius lap up their propaganda that makes you no different to the Islamists that you so despise.
I tend to think about the situation and you two just blindly follow your masters, caring not in the slightest that there's some tomfoolery going on.
I'm amazed that so many people can be adamant that this is this and that is that. Iraq was invaded. Thousands of people were murdered by allied air strikes and infantry gung ho-ism. It seems that America just wanted to win a war after their utter defeat by the Viet Cong, another war they should never have got involved in.
Until I find the answers to the many questions of 9/11 and 7/7, then the American Administration and the British Government will always be suspects and I'm not the only person who thinks like this. Believe it or not there are people out there who are FAR FROM LEFT WING who know that their governments care little for them and should be the last people EVER to gain power over so many people.
No offence Wellington, but I've had so many conversations with people like you and Cornelius, with your blind stupidity, that it really is boring after a while.
I'm only replying to you through politeness even though you were clearly not to me in your reply.
So I'll bed you good day and say this is my last post on the subject. I came here to discuss the problems of Islamisation and NOT argue with 'tunnel vision' Republicans, to unwilling to look past the front cover for fear of discovering the truth and having their whole perception destroyed that the American Politicians are here to protect the people of America, even though they're responsible for the deaths of thousands in Wars that should never, ever have been fought.
Ah, Hugh, you give away your age to some extent by using a word like "swell." But I digress. Yes, Obama gives much away too, but what he gives away respecting his knowledge and judgment should disturb all clear thinking Westerners. He and his supporters have such an exaggerated sense of his importance and acumen.
Mark: Oh, no, I won't take offense by being told I am possessed of "blind stupidity" (as opposed to what-----sightful stupidity?). What would make you think I would? But really, pal, if all you can do is repeat the pablum from loony websites, well, then I'm wasting my time. Oh yes, every major intelligence agency thought Saddam Hussein had WMDs, SH certainly posed a threat to British and American pilots upon whom he was firing daily in the two no-fly zones over Iraq, he was in violation of well over a dozen UN resolutions, was bribing Germans, French, Russians and others to look the other way where sanctions were concerned and had all kinds of contacts with terrorist groups, not the least of which was Ansar al-Islam, which functioned as a conduit for relations with al-Qaeda. As for Afghanistan, the American military rightly has plans to invade every country on earth. It would be irresponsible if it didn't. Grow up.
I suppose that crowd of cheering Iraqui's who were present when Saddam's statue was pulled down were really paid actors? (sarc/on)
And I suppose the US orchestrated 9-11 because .. . we were reeeally tired of looking at those ugly twin towers. (sarc/on)
Other nuggets from our new interlocutor...
MARK: "I will simply state that you may think that those who believed that the government was involved in 9/11 and 7/7 are nincompoops, but I might hasten to add that "They all laughed at Christopher Columbus when he said the world was round". "
RESPONSE: A convoluted world-view becomes a metaphor for self-exaltation.
MARK: "If Bin Laden was responsible for 9/11 as I said I'm not so sure he was, then why didn't they look for him in Saudi Arabia?"
RESPONSE: Because Sherlock, he lived and operated out of Afghanistan. The Saudi government had a price on his head. But you can't be bothered with such mundane details, now can you?
MARK: "YES, Afghanistan WAS about the pipeline. YES Iraq was about Oil and removing Saddam from power because he no longer would play ball with the Americans regarding the cost of Oil. America and the West put him there. We've only got ourselves to blame for his brutal regime and murder of so many Iraqis, that we always turned a blind eye to as "It's ok, Saddam's an ally of the West"."
RESPONSE: Saddam rose up through the ranks of the Arab Baath Socialist Party, a party incidentally, with a decidedly anti-American world-view. He overthrew President Bakr in 1979 with no help from the USA. His weaponry was almost exclusively Soviet-supplied (with the exception of some French mirages).But Mark has adopted the Left-wing narrative - fallacy that it is - that Saddam was somehow "our" man.
MARK (explaining why we haven't profited from our Iraqi invasion: "The reason why you don't have any Oil from Iraq is it's a bit too dangerous to start the Oil production until Iraq is stable once again."
RESPONSE: The ignoramus obviously doesn't know that Iraq has accumulated at least $78 billion in oil export money over the last two years.
Mark, you are a joke and a fool. I can tolerate fools up to a point, but when you start espousing conspiracy theories on acts of mass murder that implicate the innocent and exonerate the guilty, I draw the line. Please go comment at the 'Guardian', where your theories will find fertile ground.
Cornelius,
Well done for hijacking another post, with your apparent fixation about me. It seems that you are intent on arguing instead of actually following the topic of the thread.
Don't worry though, it does seem to be the Republican way to 'hijack' things eh? ;)
"Because, Sherlock, he lived and operated out of Afghanistan" Cornelius
good one, Cornelius
The question about looking for OBL in Saudi is a telling one, though. It tells that ignorance abounds, but unfortunately it has a mouth and DNA.
See this is what amazes me and then, explains a lot:
Why did America and the UK invade Iraq, nothing whatsoever to do with Al Qaeda and the attacks on 9/11
Just look at Bush family history and your questions will be answered. But let me list here:
- Bush Sr. abused his position as president to push Carlyle group business (of arms) with Arabs (Al-Sabahs of Kuwait, Al-Sauds of Saudi Arabia).
- Bush Sr. talked dubya into 'Don't you ever go against the royals'.
- Dubya fails in business after business, only to be bailed out by Arabs (Mahfooz, Bin Ladens and Al-Sauds).
- With nowhere to go, Dubya enters politics. Predictably, papa Bush paves way for son, specially thru his Arab contacts. In teturn, Dubya to do whatever Arabs want/ask him to.
- Once president, Dubya makes sure he does not cross Arabs. 9/11 was a stern test, but Dubya passed it with flying colors, lying to Americans about getting Osama 'dead or al;ive' while smoking cigars with his family 'Bandar-Bush'.
- Predictably, Dubya covers up for Al-Sauds in 9/11 commission report.
- Increases student's visas (very visas abused by 9/11 killers) from Saudi Arabia.
- Declares Saudi Arabia (with Pakistan) allies in the phone 'war-on-terror'.
- Seeing Saddam was a threat to Al-Sauds, Bush sees an opportunity to please his masters in Al-Riyadh.
- Like his dad, Dubya invades Iraq and pleases his Saudi masters by having Saddam executed.
- Of-course, Bush knew Iraq has nothing to do with 9/11. But, why not use a God-sent opportunity? By nutralizing Saddam, Bush is permanently in the good books of the rich Al-Sabahs and Al-Sauds.
- So, what if it costs American tax-dollars, blood and lives? Afgter all, Americans elected him president and Dubya was within his right to please his masters in Al-Riyadh, wasn't he?
- Finally, Bin Laden is a free bird as he was on 9/11. You see, what Americans don't know, won't hurt them.
Smart as Americans are, they re-elected this 'war-president'. The war he faught for his Saudi Masters. ha ha.
Oh, and don't even try the communist/liberal/democrat crap as Clinton did his share of sellling out to Islam, which have posted elsewhere.
Typical Obama, get caught red handed and deny it took place.
But this is not surprising that Obama has never associated with anyone in the U.S. that could be considered average or normal.
The fact he can recite the Call to Prayer in perfect Arabic and then state its one of the most beautiful sounds in the world indicates where his sympathies lay.
Or the fact the in a interview he stated point blank and without a bit of hesitation "My Muslim faith" and had to be reminded twice by Chris Matthews that he said it. No slip of the tongue.
Never knew a practicing Christian to confuse his faith with one diametrically opposed.
The fact that his campaign has ties to violent Islam and refuses to jettison them again shows where his true loyalties lay.
I believe the man to be a mortal threat to this country. A Obama presidency coupled with a Democratic congress that worships him and a rabid liberal base that hates this country and most of the people in it. Is going to make life hell for others.
I didn't know Dubya's dad invaded Iraq. Was it a secret invasion?
Cornelius wrote:
Because Sherlock, he lived and operated out of Afghanistan. The Saudi government had a price on his head. But you can't be bothered with such mundane details, now can you?
So tell me then Cornelius, why is it then that the British government is allowing the Saudis to pump millions into the UK in the building of Mosques, the promotion of Wahabism and no doubt funding of many Islamist organisations, masquerading as Muslim Brotherhoods and Councils? You believe that Bin Laden has a price on his head in Saudi Arabia? Oh wait, the American government has told you so it must be correct. Boy you really are gullible aren't you?
Cornelius wrote:
Saddam rose up through the ranks of the Arab Baath Socialist Party, a party incidentally, with a decidedly anti-American world-view. He overthrew President Bakr in 1979 with no help from the USA. His weaponry was almost exclusively Soviet-supplied (with the exception of some French mirages).But Mark has adopted the Left-wing narrative - fallacy that it is - that Saddam was somehow "our" man.
Really, is that more from the Republican News? I tell you what, why not have a read here eh? Why not also have a look and a read here too?
You know Cornelius, it's like shooting fish in a barrel debating with you.
And I don't comment or even read the Guardian thank you very much. I prefer the Times and The Telegraph, which you will actually find are Centrist and Right Wing newspapers.
Last but not least, you'd believe that pigs were capable of flying if your republican Neocons told you eh?
It's sad to see that there are people fighting against Islamisation, when really they should be fighting also not only the Left for allowing it, but the 'ignorant' right like you who are no better than the people you want removed. Freedom, democracy and liberty? You wouldn't know what it was if it but you on your behind.
I'm trying to deal with the foreboding, menacing sense of insecurity inspired by the Obamanation juggernaut. I am trying to think how to keep my footing in the emerging New Order of Commandante Barack, that audaciously ambitious, unscrupulously narcissistic Great Equivocator. I see parallels here with Venezuela and Zimbabwe. Divide and rule. Subsidize the Brown Shirts of ACORN. Discredit and intimidate opponents, and silence all critics. Use government ownership and leverage to direct all economic activity and to dominate all media.
Alert wrote:
"........Oh, and don't even try the communist/liberal/democrat crap as Clinton did his share of sellling out to Islam, which have posted elsewhere."
I agree with what you've written about Bush. I agree about the Democrats too. I'm not Democrat or Republican. I'm British and I'm not Liberal, Conservative or Labour. If anything I'd class myself as an humanist, verging on radical humanism, believing that we should all rule our selves instead of having to submit to the rule of those, who should be nowhere near any form of power whatsoever.
All politicians are in it for themselves, hence why I vote for none of them as they care not one iota in my life or any of the electorate that vote them into power. They care only for themselves and those who got them into power and are all merely pigs with their snouts, pushed deep within the trough. All aboard the Gravy Train.
I also have to say as well that watching the American Presidential Elections(when it's on the news) is like watching "The Emperor's New Clothes" By Hans Christian Anderson.
It's woefully, pathetic to see so many gullible people, actually follow and believe these greedy, selfish, power hungry, control freaks, thinking that they're "reaching out to the people" when all they're interested in is all that money and power, not forgetting the perks and future job offers at being President of the USA. Worse still they actually vote for them too.
"you give away your age to some extent by using a word like 'swell.'"
-- from a posting above
Anyone can pluck out, and make his own through use, words used in a different period. If I use the word "welkin" it does not mean that I was born in the Elizabethan age.
Similarly, if I use the word "swell" --as in those movies of the 1930s, where the leggy but innocent girl who has just arrived in the Big City to get into show biz, tells the worldly, possibly predatory and even leering director (think of a cartoon by Peter Arno, circa 1935), "Gosh, Mr. Dillingham, I think New York is swell" -- this tells nothing about my chronological age, but merely tells you that I noticed the word, filed it away, and bring it out for use whenever I feel like it, especially if I want a hint of the dialogue in those old, and beloved, movies -- the ones whose credits always include Douglas Shearer and Cedric Gibbons.
'Nuff said?
OH great...
another thread comment section hijacked by some looney tune who cannot seem to pinpoint if its Muslims, "Republican neocons", or dhimmi Liberals responsible for 9/11.
Please reign this in Moderator. PLEASE!!!
This trash is so counter productive in dealing with Jihad. These nutjobs think Jihad is CIA psyops & Neocons are the grand puppet masters of Islam.
When I use "swell" I would never be able to get away with the clever, Sophistic arguments you just put forward, Hugh, admirable though they are. My wife just looks at me and repeats the word "swell" with derision, sarcasm and, yes, a little love in her voice, which makes things all right again and insures I'll use that word tomorrow or the next day or.... 'Nuff said indeed.
It has been unbelievable to me watching otherwise responsible public figures, one group or individual after the other, caving in to Obama and speaking in rapt, glowing terms. Even Christian churches, even Jewish! It appears to be mass psychosis, until I think of the way O has used his race as a threat, stifling free speech and dissent, right down to a couple of words spoken by his opponent, "that one"...he is a Chicago gangster who surrounds himself with terrorists, and all these people on the left, big corporations, churches, celebrities, the vast network of media--are intimidated, and badly. What a damned sorry state of affairs.
Let me add, not just his race, of which African descent is apparently minimal but most people think he's half black--but his Islamic religion; in the last seven years Americans have been dhimmitized and don't even know it! Starting with George Bush's speech just after 9/11 in which he said "Islam is a religion of peace". Then like the fool that he is, he repeated it a couple more times in following weeks...just damn!
I didn't know Dubya's dad invaded Iraq. Was it a secret invasion?
Posted by: charlie at October 11, 2008 12:12 AM
charlie,
From wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gulf_War
"Aerial and ground combat was confined to Iraq, Kuwait, and bordering areas of Saudi Arabia."
Then like the fool that he is, he repeated it a couple more times in following weeks...just damn!
Posted by: protozoah at October 11, 2008 1:44 AM
protozoah, Bush plays the 'village idiot' well enough to fool Amricans into not holding him responsible. All the while, serving his Arab masters at the cost of American tax-dollars, blood and lives. Even lefties have not figured Dubya out.. lol. However Wafa Sultan was not fooled: http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=52962
But, even if we assume that Bush is a fool/idiot. Why was did America re-elect this fool/idiot? Besides, should a POTUS/Commander-in-chief/most powerful man on earth, however foolish, not be held to account?
It's woefully, pathetic to see so many gullible people, actually follow and believe these greedy, selfish, power hungry, control freaks, thinking that they're "reaching out to the people" when all they're interested in is all that money and power, not forgetting the perks and future job offers at being President of the USA. Worse still they actually vote for them too.
Posted by: Mark at October 11, 2008 12:40 AM
Could not have put it better, myself. Excellent critical observation, Mark!
Obama's connections are very worrisome. I do not think most Americans like Obama, but that they dislike, and feel disenfranchised by the supposed "conservative" party that we essentially handed our government over to for the last 10 years. There has been good and bad during this time, but right now it looks like the crooks have taken over our system. People are mad, so they are tending to vote for anyone who is not a conservative. Long and the short of it is I'm begging to see this in terms of a football game, like the one between the Greenbay packers, and the New England Patriots in Super bowl XXXI, 1997. Late in the fourth quarter the Patriots were driving eating up the clock. The "Walrus" let the Patrios score a quick tuchdown, so his offence could come onto the field with 4 min to play, just enough time to drive the field and score the final touchdown and win the game. Today’s scenario is the same. Europe is in the fourth quarter. The status quo with the "conservatives" in power has changed nothing in our realization of the Islamic threat that faces us all. There is no reason to believe that a "conservative" victory with McCain will change this dynamic. With the liberals in power the "conservatives" will be left to pound the airwaves with what little they have left to gain power back, and that is the truth. Islamic integration poses a real threat to western society, and our way of life. We actually may be better off having the "conservatives" lose this one, and come out the next round like a phoenix raised from the ashes, singing a new tune. Obama is by no means a sure win, I think many of us see the very real threat, but nobody can articulate it clearly, for many obvious and stated reasons. In closing I'd like to say that the crazier Obama’s connections are the better as far as I'm concerned, when the Republicans are fighting to get power back the will use any tactic at their disposal to get it. If that is exposing Obama's ties to the M.B. or yelling from the tallest hill what said connections mean ... it will happen, but it will not if McCain wins. By the way I will vote for McCain, because I couldn't live with myself all stratagems aside if I voted for Obama.
why is there never any talk of "TERM LIMITS" for these idiots?
First of all let me say I do not think our government was behind 9/11 ,but after reading all of these post I have to say that I have to agree with Mark on this one. We actually have folks like Suhail Kahn spouting rhetoric right out of the M.B. working in the Department of Transportation of all places. Our government is a smile on a dog, if you see any real smile there, then you must be a real dog lover.
revparadigm wrote:
OH great...
another thread comment section hijacked by some looney tune who cannot seem to pinpoint if its Muslims, "Republican neocons", or dhimmi Liberals responsible for 9/11.
Please reign this in Moderator. PLEASE!!!
This trash is so counter productive in dealing with Jihad. These nutjobs think Jihad is CIA psyops & Neocons are the grand puppet masters of Islam.
Did it occur to you that I never hijacked the thread? How about looking back to my initial reply to the thread, third one down, after Winged_Hussar on October 10, 2008 8:37 PM?
Then if you care to indulge a little bit more then you'll see Cornelius come in to do exactly what you say I have done. He even went on to completely change my view on Obama as well.
It does paint a rather poor picture of some people's perceptions and further goes to show that many people in America really haven't got a clue what's going on within their country and elected administration.
All I did was to merely answer Cornelius and then Wellington after they decided to launch into an unprovoked attack about something I'd already engaged in in another debate.
By all means, call the moderator and then they'll find that Cornelius and Wellington(amongst others) should be 'reigned in' for going completely out of context to the original thread content.
Although Obama is definitely linked to people who want to destroy the USA and the West in general, people in the USA and the West in general seem to adore him.
What is happening is quite clear; at this time of crisis people are siding with their enemies.
And now they want to send Obama to the White House; we are probably witnessing the largest example in history of the Stockholm Syndrome at work.
If people think Carter was the worst president, then if the one, Obama is elected and l know he takes the mantle for that title.
Anyone who thinks President Bush doesn't "get" Islam (this would include me, though I'm not on board with the Bush haters either) should consider BO's understanding of Mohammed's creed.
Wellington
I believe you are completely correct but does John McCain believe it? John McCain has just told his followers that "We must not be afraid of B.O." and "He (B.O.)is a good man. He will do a good job."
I have been trying to get in the groove for John McCain and he continues to try to talk me out of it. But I will vote for John McCain in spite of John McCain's own statements of praise for B.O.
On topic: New Obama "Muslim Outreach Advisor" met with Islamic organizations associated with Hamas and Muslim Brotherhood...
If Obama becomes President, you can look forward to many more Maohmmadans in government and related power positions. He will help them with stealth jihad, either intentionally or as a useful idiot. Either way he will help them.
Ot...What I want to know about 911.
How did the US gov get 19 Saudi Mohammadans to kill themselves for filthy kuffars? We are to believe that that Mohammadans sacrificed their lives for George Bush?...There's no virgins in that movie...
From the FOX news story:
"But critics say CAIR has a long history of masquerading as a moderate Islamic group."
I find it curious that Fox news characterizes CAIR like this when in every instance where Fox News seeks input to provide "fair and balanced" view of an issue on Islam, the very first group Fox News reaches out to is CAIR. How many times has Ibby Hooper appeared on Fox to provide the so called moderate muslim side of the story?
I am glad that Fox takes the time to cover items about jihadists activities when other MSM sources do not. I just hope they begin to realize the folly of seeking CAIR's input everytime a perspective on an issue is needed for a moderate Islam point of view. CAIR does not represent moderate muslims any more than it can represent moderate Islam ( 'cuz there is no moderate Islam).
How did the US gov get 19 Saudi Mohammadans to kill themselves for filthy kuffars? We are to believe that that Mohammadans sacrificed their lives for George Bush?...There's no virgins in that movie...
Posted by: duh_swami at October 11, 2008 8:41 AM
duh_swami, IMHO, George Bush is immaterial in the greater Jihad. There are some other important reasons:
- America is a Kaffur super-power, unacceptable to the ummah.
- America sent mseeage after message of timidity / cowardice / greed, not lost on the greater Jihadists.
- American corruption provided enough opportunities to attack America time and again.
- Finally, sacrificing oneself on the 'Dar Al-Harb' is eternal bliss in the after-world (including 72 virgins), Qur'an:61:11 "Believers, shall I lead you to a bargain or trade that will save you from a painful torment? That you believe in Allah and His Messenger (Muhammad), and that you strive and fight in Allah's Cause with your property and your lives: That will be best for you!" Qur'an 61:12 "He will forgive you your sins, and admit you to Gardens under which rivers flow, and to beautiful mansions in Eden: that is indeed the Supreme Achievement. And another (favor) which you love: help from Allah for a speedy victory over your enemies."
Again, after helping greater Jihad as a pawn, George Bush is immaterial.
OK Marcus, let's clear things up for you...
CORNELIUS: Because Sherlock, he lived and operated out of Afghanistan. The Saudi government had a price on his head. But you can't be bothered with such mundane details, now can you?
MARK: "So tell me then Cornelius, why is it then that the British government is allowing the Saudis to pump millions into the UK in the building of Mosques, the promotion of Wahabism and no doubt funding of many Islamist organisations, masquerading as Muslim Brotherhoods and Councils? You believe that Bin Laden has a price on his head in Saudi Arabia? Oh wait, the American government has told you so it must be correct. Boy you really are gullible aren't you?"
RESPONSE: I never said the Saudis weren't Islamist, doofy, I said they had a price on Osama's head. Why don't you read up on it a little? PS, believe it or not, a Wahhabi is not necessarily a Salafist, and vice-versa.
As for Saddam, I've read all about this from your Left-wing sources. It's part of an on-going propensity to blame America for all the world's ills, something you obviously ascribe to. If the Baathist coup in '63 that the USA supposedly engineered brought a pro-American government to power, why did Iraq continue to synchronize its policies with Soviet interests in the region? Why did it continue buying Soviet arms over the years (wouldn't an American client be expected to buy American arms)? Why did it send a brigade to fight the Israelis in the '73 Yom Kipper war? Please explain.
You know Mark, it's like shooting fish in a barrel debating with you.
PS - Still waiting for an elaboration of your ridiculous assertion that "it's a bit too dangerous to start the Oil production until Iraq is stable once again".
duh_swami wrote:
Ot...What I want to know about 911.
How did the US gov get 19 Saudi Mohammadans to kill themselves for filthy kuffars? We are to believe that that Mohammadans sacrificed their lives for George Bush?...There's no virgins in that movie...
What amazes me is that people not only LISTEN to the propaganda being spouted out by the US/UK governments, but they also believe it as well.
Now let's see shall we - 19 Saudi Arabians who were on planes that flew into the Twin Towers.
Hmm....Where's the proof? Where's the bodies? Kind of convenient don't you think that they can say who was on the plane, when they have no proof that firstly the plane was what they say it was and secondly, in the ensuing fire everything was destroyed.
There are loads of discrepancies surrounding 9/11 to show that there is something exceptionally amiss with the story the US Governments tell you.
Worse still, how you can honestly believe in the US government, when they send your children to wars that they don't need to fight in, resulting in their deaths is beyond me.
Nothing has changed. The rich are still getting exuberantly more rich and the poor poorer. It is the poor man that dies in the war zones and not the rich one. You can go back to pre WW1 to see that nothing has changed. The generals still sit back, miles from the front lines, living in their extravagance, ordering youngster to their deaths and for what?
This is what amazes me in that none of you question the motives behind the war in Iraq. It doesn't concern you that Afghanistan and Iraq were planned long before 9/11. In fact Iraq 2 was planned before Iraq 1 even happened.
I read many stories of you all concerned about Islamisation and yet you are unable to make the connection between Saudi Arabia and the USA. They go together like Romeo and Juliet for goodness sake. Both are exceptionally corrupt who have money and power on the agenda long before any human welfare. Your government is an ally to Saudi Arabia, yet it's(Saudi) pumping millions into not just the UK but also the USA in Wahabist ideology, Mosque building and funding for Islamic Organisations, many just smokescreen for Islamist groups as well as University and Faith schools.
Your government is allowing this. It's nothing more than sheer hypocrisy of the highest magnitude and yet you and many like you sit, like a cat, lapping it all up because you really believe that the Government has your best interests at heart.
Boy, the amount of gullible people on here is truly amazing. I've met some truly inspiring Americans in my time but can safely say that they're massively outweighed by the complete and utter morons who are still living in Cloud Cuckoo Land, looking at the world through their Rose Tinted Spectacles.
Your President and our Prime Minister has said "There is not such a thing as Islamic terrorism, yet are waging a war in the Middle East on Islamic Terrorists, that is costing the lives of many of yours and ours servicemen and servicewomen, who actually believe they're protecting their country and countrymen and women from terrorism.
Wake up and realise that things are NOT what they seem for goodness sake. The machinations of your Republican Government are many along with Britain's labour one. The same will also happen when the Democrats win the next election in the USA and Conservatives win here. There is no difference, only in name.
Answer me these: Why is it you never see a poor American, that's a governor, or a senator or a Presidential Candidate? Where does all the money come for the campaigns?
There used to be a big difference to the way British Politics worked themselves out but unfortunately they have no copied the disease that is the American Electoral System and Presidential campaign. It's all about money, more money and taking that money from disreputable sources, so that would be Leaders can get fabulously more wealthier.
All politicians are corrupt. It's in their nature. There's not such a thing as an honest politician and yet Gullible Americans believe there are.
You all make me laugh horrendously. You really think your governments have the American people's interests at heart. You couldn't be more wrong.
EMPEROR'S NEW CLOTHES.
Again, after helping greater Jihad as a pawn, George Bush is immaterial.
Posted by: Alert
I agree with all that, but it does not answer the question, that if the US gov, with or without Bush,
are materially and criminally responsible for 911, as the conspiracy theorists think, how did they get 19 Mohammadans to off themselves for Kufrs?
So far no one seems to know. I guess Allah does, but he ain't talking...
Now let's see shall we - 19 Saudi Arabians who were on planes that flew into the Twin Towers.
Hmm....Where's the proof?
I don't know where the proof is, I can't even prove you are a live person, maybe you are a robot conspiracy theorist.
I formerly did an on going radio talk show where government conspiracies were the topic.
The thing i learned from doing that is that not all conspiracy theories are theories, some of them are actualities. The trick is to figure out which is which.
However...
Allegation is not proof...If you have proof of criminal violations of Federal Law, and you are an American citizen, it is your duty to report those proofs to the proper authorities.
It is a Federal crime not to report a suspected Federal crime if you know of one. It is also a Federal crime for the authority taking the report to do nothing about it.
So I assume you have notified the authorities with your proofs, and have filed lawsuits against those officials who refuse to act.
If not, what are you waiting for?
"how did they get 19 Mohammadans to off themselves for Kufrs?"
duh_swami,
Come on, you know the answer to that one!
/sarc on
Those nineteen were on the planes but they did not hijack them. The hijackers were CIA types. Those nineteen died with all the other victims.
As for all the people who placed calls to their loved ones on Flight 97, they were all forced to say what they said, with CIA guns to their heads.
The FAA controller who heard one of the hijackers before the transponder was turned off was just making it up. That, or Special Agent John Smith, the real hijacker, was faking a foreign voice.
And Osama's tape where he told how the plot came about? Done in a CIA lab and "left" in a cave for the Americans to find.
/sarc off
It's amazing how good the US government is at keeping secrets!
peoples,
remember, ALLAH is the best of deceivers !!!!
One other thing Marcus,
If we "Neocons" are capable of such great evil as plotting and pulling off 9-11, why aren't you posting at a version of 'Neo-con watch? Why worry about Muslims?
PMK...I was going to bring up the cell phone use on the plane, and that 'lets roll' was made up, but I forgot, thanks for adding.
I don't claim to have any answers except one...Allah was willing because when it comes to destroying kuffirs, he always is...
Posted by Mark
Really, is that more from the Republican News? I tell you what, why not have a read here eh? Why not also have a look and a read here too
Thanx for the links, I was not aware of the US involvement in the rise of Saddam, but it consistant with US during the sixties.
WASHINGTON -- The U.S. government played a significant role in one of the worst massacres of the century by supplying the names of thousands of Communist Party leaders to the Indonesian army, which hunted down the leftists and killed them, former U.S. diplomats say.
For the first time, U.S. officials acknowledge that in 1965 they systematically compiled comprehensive lists of Communist operatives, from top echelons down to village cadres. As many as 5,000 names were furnished to the Indonesian army, and the Americans later checked off the names of those who had been killed or captured, according to the U.S. officials.
http://www.namebase.org/kadane.htm
"...in four months, five times as many people died in Indonesia as in Vietnam in twelve years."
-- Bertrand Russell, 1966
The general attitude in Washinton was one of great relief: "Nobody cared" about the butchery and murder of a million people because the victims were Communists
Looks like the rooster from Indonesia has come home to roost
why is there never any talk of "TERM LIMITS" for these idiots?
Posted by: oppressiondetester
Those who want term limits for these idiots are perfectly free to VOTE FOR SOMEONE - ANYONE - ELSE! As long as people use the excuse of incumbency and gerrymandered districts, there is just one answer: we deserve the government we get.
Assume that those who benefit from having these people in office will keep voting for them. If they continue to win, that means more people than not benefit from what they do. If those who are harmed by the idiots' policy preferences continue to reward them with reelection - see above.
InfidelK9,
Thanks for the links, I'll have a read later.
I find it a real pity that Americans actually believe that the Governments have their best interests at heart and are not responsible for atrocities.
American's will continue to be hated throughout the World, as long as they continue to elect people who wantonly cause destruction around the World.
I am not attacking the people, well, I'm angry at them electing corrupt people to run their country, but it's the governments that the World's people hate and not the Americans. I have many friends who are Americans and they tell me of the problems back home wishing more Americans would travel to Europe and look at the world from the outside in instead of the inside out.
PMK,
Are there any other parties in America, other than the Democrats and the Republicans?
Are there any Nationalist parties for example or has the American Political system only got two contenders for presidency. If it's so then that's a very sad thing indeed, especially for democracy and freedom.
Looks like the rooster from Indonesia has come home to roost
Posted by: InfidelK9
Their ain't no angels in this game...
The US government is a fine structure, but that does not mean that individuals within it are always fine, or that they always do what is right.
These are mostly politicians who never heard of, 'Always tell yourself the truth, and always do what is right'. Instead they follow the creed, I need all I can get, and I don't care how I get it.
This leads to all kinds of undesirable activity.
Gross materialism has no conscience.
Islam functions under the same banner, their form of gross materialism is different than the kufr, but it is still gross, and they don't care how they get it.
Mark...are you an American?
Really, is that more from the Republican News? I tell you what, why not have a read here eh? Why not also have a look and a read here too
Mark,
Get a history book. In 1965 DEMOCRATS ran the US. LBJ had his great society. Democrats ran both houses of Congress and had for all but four years since 1932. Twenty-eight out of thirty-two years there were Democrats running Congress.
Twenty-four of those same 32 years there were Democrats in the White House.
duh_swami,
What does it matter what nationality I am? It isn't really hard to see that Politicians, the world over, care little for the people they are supposed to represent but more for themselves getting their hands on as much power and wealth as is humanely possible.
Or do you disagree?
You really think your governments have the American people's interests at heart.
Mark,
No I don't. However, I also don't put them on a par with the Muslims who have been killing innocents for thousands of years. I don't equate the US military going into a theater and killing 4,000 people over several years with covert bombers blowing up hotels and markets.
I would like to see the US military brought home and the rest of the world defend itself.
I would like to see killing that occurs within a country's borders to be the responsibility of that country's people. No more of the UN calling on the US to "do something!".
The call for help after the next tsunami, earthquake, whatever (if it does happen) should be answered by someone else!
I've had it with moralists everywhere.
I have seen enough of the Palestinians faking the deaths of women and children, even as they themselves blow up people holding a seder, to not give a crap what the Muslims think.
I would tell the people in Britain to clean up your own house. Most of the problems in the Middle East were caused by Britain and France, not by the US.
Yes, it does matter. At least to me.
Your opinions have no value to me if you are bashing America.
Why should Americans give American bashing foreigners the time of day?
Your hatred of America is repulsive, even if you are correct on some items.
Are you ashamed of your nationality? What is it?
Are there any other parties in America, other than the Democrats and the Republicans?
Mark,
Yes there are. I intend to vote for one of them - the Constitution Party. Then there are Libertarians, the American Conservative Party and a few others. It's been said that they will only get a few percentage points of the vote. That doesn't matter to me. My vote means more to me than just picking a winner. I'll be damned if I'm going to vote for the lesser evil, ever again.
When I say I want a third party, what I really want is a third party that will push one of the two we have now, neither of which existed when George Washington became our first president, out of the way and on to the ash heap of history.
In 1992 it looked like Ross Perot was going to bring one about but he chickened out. He was in the race for his own glory, nothing more.
Ours isn't a parliamentary system and so it works best with two strong parties but the two we have now aren't good for the American people.
In lower level races, if there is not a third way, I intend to vote anti-incumbent. I see myself doing this for the rest of my life for one simple reason: the rot in the system must be cleaned out. It won't be done all at once but it has to start somewhere.
The bailout bill gives me hope. A lot of Americans are angry that the same bunch that took our jobs to Asia got their own hides saved by the government. Everyone in the House is up for reelection. See how many of them win. It's usually 90% or more. The American people are upset at what was done. See if they're upset enough to make a real change and vote out some of those who supported the bill.
I don't understand you. You keep complaining how the three major parties in Britain sell YOU out but are you willing to vote for a party that might not be pristine? You want it all. Newsflash: you can't have it all. You're looking for the perfect party and it doesn't exist.
Why is it you never see a poor American, that's a governor, or a senator or a Presidential Candidate?
Mark,
Bill Clinton. Hillary was panic-stricken when they lost their state-owned housing after Bill lost a governor's election.
Apparently a lot of them are poor. Note how they leave office "to make some money and provide for their family".
Spot On: My guess is John McCain hardly thinks at all about Barack Obama'a understanding of Islam. McCain, from what I've benn able to tell, thinks there is a good Islam which has been hijacked by extremists, a position, of course, regularly dismissed with copious evidence attendant upon such dismissal by many who post here, not the least of them being Hugh. McCain very likely thinks BO thinks this too about the Islamic faith, but that he, John McCain, will do a much better job of going after the violent Muslims who mean to do us lethal harm than will Obama.
I will vote for McCain for many reasons, even though I have several reservations about him, but one of the reasons I will vote for him is that I have no doubt he will be willing to use force in a far more effective manner to take out Islamic nutjobs wherever they are than will The Messiah should he be elected President. Another reason is that McCain will almost certainly appoint far more realistic people to the bench who will be far less likely to overturn security measures initiated by the executive and legislative branches to contain Islamic radicals here in America. And if the objection to this be that McCain won't be able to get many judicial appointments through a Demcoratic Senate, then my rebuttal to this would be that I prefer vacancies on the bench rather than Far Left judges adjudicating legislation and exectutive intitiatives designed to keep us safe. From what you wrote above, I think we're on the same page with this one. Take care.
Wellington and Spot On,
McCain's willingness to go after Islamists across the ocean does nothing to protect us at home, if he thinks they should be allowed in. Most come in the old-fashioned way, by air. Once they're here, they're here. Even so, some that can't come in the traditional way use Mexico as their gateway.
McCain won't protect our southern border the way it needs to be done.
If you think he's serious about border security, think again.
McCain-Kennedy (or Kennedy-McCain) is the truest indicator of where McCain stands.
"We're going to tell all the bigots to shut up!" is number two.
Lindsey Graham was his mouthpiece for number two but if we are going to judge Obama by his associations, McCain deserves no less.
On the topic of a Nationalist Party Michael Savage is going to start one. Here is his manifesto. http://michaelsavage.wnd.com/?pageId=404 Looks like we will get our party we'll have to see how it goes.
But critics say CAIR has a long history of masquerading as a moderate Islamic group.
Masquerading?? Does that mean when I see/hear Ibrahim Hooper, that he is masquerading?
He's wearing a mask?
Does that mean that CAIR, Hooper and the rest, are
hiding behind the mask of respectability, and moderation? Islamic moderation?
That's a pretty good trick since Islamic moderation does not exist...
OHHH, I see said the blind mouse...
PMK,
I agree with most of your post Oct 11,2008, 11:19AM
However, The American Army have committed atrocities in Iraq, there's no doubt about that. They have also done it in previous conflicts as well, no more so than in Vietnam, two wars they should never have been involved in.
I agree with the bringing home of the US military.
I agree with killing in other countries to be the concern of that country and its neighbours.
I agree that America should shut itself off 100% along with Britain too, giving no aid. Then will the world see just how much it relies on the West.
I agree with Britain cleaning up its house along with France and other European powers but then I wil also lump in the USA too as they played a major part in the World's problems ESPECIALLY the middle east.
America and Europe have a lot to answer for, but in turn they've also helped the world greatly throughout the years.
You have the views of a Nationalist, someone proud of their country and someone who is also prepared to not accept the status quo but also ask questions where needed. I would also class myself as a Nationalist too, but the days of nationalism are dying as Multiculturalism and political correctness are taking over.
PMK: However true may be your predictions, McCain is still far preferable to Obama. An Obama Presidency will be a disaster. BO will open the floodgates for immigrants and make McCain by comparison look positively restrictionist. I also think McCain will take a far more realistic view of the Patriot Act, even though it still may not be enough for you and me. And the judges. Don't forget the judges we'll get with a President Obama. And they will have their appointments for life. For me, it's a no-brainer. McCain is clearly the better choice. And besides, behind Obama is that doofus who never learns from experience, Joe Biden. Behind McCain is a woman, whom unless I miss my guess, is ready to kick some serious ass.
duh_swami wrote:
Yes, it does matter. At least to me.
Your opinions have no value to me if you are bashing America.
Why should Americans give American bashing foreigners the time of day?
Your hatred of America is repulsive, even if you are correct on some items.
Are you ashamed of your nationality? What is it?
I am not bashing America. I'm bashing your government and politicians and the morons who vote them(republicans/Democrats) into power, who do not realise that they are bringing more grief on the world due to foreign policy and more grief on themselves. Republican and Democrats will help bring in Islamisation.
I do not hate Americans but I truly despise your political parties(Republican and democrats) who are exceptionally corrupt.
I am very much ashamed of the British Government along with the main three choices - NuLabour, Liberal Democrats and Conservative. They care nothing for the people and never have. They are more interested in waging wars abroad, displacing hundreds of thousands from their homes, creating hatred of the UK in them and then letting them come over to the UK as asylum seekers to segregate, receive benefits, free housing, free education and then to eventually Islamise it. They treat their armed forces with complete disdain, awarding immigrants huge compensation payouts or "racial discrimination" or whatever, while giving our war wounded miserable compensations.
I am very much ashamed with the UK Political Parties as they've turned their back on the majorities, it's increasing pandering towards the minorities and appeasing of Islam.
I could go on, but really I have no desire to.
Mark: Oh you're a basher all right. Legitimate criticism is one thing. Bashing is another. When you write that the American Army committed atotcities in Iraq and Vietnam and you don't give a single credible example, you are bashing, not criticizing. No military is perfect and a few rogue soldiers are to be expected now and again (and then dealt with accordingly), but the American military in Iraq, Vietnam and all other wars it has found itself in has performed with a standard of honor rarely matched, and never surpassed, by any other military in history.
Dave...I am willing to discuss America's inequities and what to do about them with Americans. This is because most Americans want better government and only disagree on ideology
and method. It is Americans, not foreigners who will bring about positive change in America. Even American liberals don't like soiling their own beds.
In short, America does not need your input Dave.
Thanks but no thanks. When you move here, vote, and pay taxes, I will be glad to listen to your complaints...
Now let's see shall we - 19 Saudi Arabians who were on planes that flew into the Twin Towers.
Hmm....Where's the proof?
Posted by: Mark at October 11, 2008 10:18 AM
I know this debate is far advanced and sorry for getting in this thread a little late but I do want to address the above question for it's absurdity.
Mark,
- Where were you when Atta declared over the PA system "We have some planes"?
- Where were you when 911 calls for help were aired?
- Where were you when "Let's roll!" was aired?
- Where were you when Osama gloated about the Mujaheeds bringing down the twin towers?
Finally, there is ample proof about 9/11 Jihad, for one who cares to see, specially with Ummah gloating and celebrating the kaffur deaths.
For those closed to reason and science; and brain-washed, earth is FLAT... if you get the analogy.
I agree with all that, but it does not answer the question, that if the US gov, with or without Bush,
are materially and criminally responsible for 911, as the conspiracy theorists think, how did they get 19 Mohammadans to off themselves for Kufrs?
Posted by: duh_swami at October 11, 2008 10:19 AM
duh_swami, Sorry.. I seem to have missed the question so, let me try again.....
No! US Gov. is not responsible for 9/11, as the conspiacy theorists think. Conspiracy theorists have completely turned 9/11 upside down to absolve Jihad.
Again, NO! Hope this addresses the question.
McCain-Kennedy (or Kennedy-McCain) is the truest indicator of where McCain stands.
"We're going to tell all the bigots to shut up!" is number two.
Posted by: PMK at October 11, 2008 11:51 AM
That's exactly how McCain should be read. Regardless of his VP, regardless of his will to go after Jihadists wherever, leaving borders open will destruy USA, with or without Jihadists. Who, with America's interest at heart, would have Juan Hernandez in his team? McCain is a senile old fool, who can't even decide if he should support or oppose Obama, his rival. Much like a monkey chasing his own tail. Any why should he care? McCain has seven houses, millions of dollars, threw his terminally ill wife under the bus and has a political career all made. Finally, knowing which side of his bread is buttered, even while coming from Arizona, McCain can't stop pandering to La Raza.
Americans will be fools to vote for McCain, hoping to improve USA. McCain will destroy USA, in a different way than Obama, but destroy he will.
Tom Tancredo was the last true patriotic statesman America had. Only, Americans could not see their leader even when he fell in their lap. As they say, in a democracy, people get the government they deserve. By golly, Americans deserve the their McCains, Obamas, Bushs, Clintons and Condis.
There is a lot of America bashing going on in this thread, and in the world in general. As I read through the above I began to wonder about the almost automatic response of many Europeans to blame the US for their own situations, and that of the entire globe. Could it be that their own politicians and media are using us as a scapegoat to facilitate their own ends and greed? Could it be a way for them to continue to be elected while not having to take any responsibility at all for their own contrubitions and positions? If that is the case then there is a real "pot-calling-the-kettle-black" situation going on with at least one poster above. He has not provided proof for his accusations, yet he seems sure, as if maybe he's heard it a zillion times.
There is a lot of America bashing going on in this thread, and in the world in general. As I read through the above I began to wonder about the almost automatic response of many Europeans to blame the US for their own situations, and that of the entire globe. Could it be that their own politicians and media are using us as a scapegoat to facilitate their own ends and greed? Could it be a way for them to continue to be elected while not having to take any responsibility at all for their own contributions and positions? If that is the case then there is a real "pot-calling-the-kettle-black" situation going on with at least one poster above. He has not provided proof for his accusations, yet he seems sure, as if maybe he's heard it a zillion times.
One teeny, tiny thought...
If Mr. Obama must have a Muslim Outreach Advisor, why does no one (in the genral public) see that there's a problem in America with Muslims?
Otherwise, why "reach out"?
Lindsey Graham was his mouthpiece for number two but if we are going to judge Obama by his associations, McCain deserves no less.
PMK
I can understand your frustration. But I look at it this way (which is much the same as Wellingtons position). McCain considers some of Islam to be poisin and McCain will TRY not to poisin us. On the other hand, Obama disagrees entirely and deeply believes that Islam is good for us, and as a result will give us great amounts of it.
Spot On, Wellington,
Trying isn't good enough. Show me where McCain is prepared to stop ILLEGAL immigration. It's not just our southern border. The two of you obviously have more faith in McCain than I do. He's a child of privilege who thinks we owe him the presidency. Obama is a child of hardship who thinks we owe him the presidency. I owe them nothing!
Mark,
Grow up. Bad things happen in war. Was Abu Ghraib worse than a man getting his head sawed off? We make our soldiers answer for their misdeeds. The other side could do the same thing but instead those who do what they do are treated as heroes. They fight from civilian neighborhoods and hide behind women and children and we are supposed to let them go?
Iraq could be thriving today. It's not and it's not because of anything our soldiers did. It's time we got out of there and promised OURSELVES never to go back. Anyone who wants to take over the place (Ahmadinejad, Gordon Brown) feel free!
Iraqis must fight for their own freedom. If they want it badly enough, they'll fight. After all this time, I think they don't really care. And if they don't care then why should I?
The same goes with Iran. I never want to hear Iranians asking the US to free them from the mullahs. (Sorry, Amil Imani.)
Unlike Muslim fighters, our soldiers aren't cannon fodder.
Tom Tancredo was the last true patriotic statesman America had. Only, Americans could not see their leader even when he fell in their lap.
Alert,
Tom Tancredo bailed before the real contests began. He didn't give Americans a chance. He let the early primaries, dominated by machines and special interests, be his guide.
He abandoned us. We recognized him long ago.
To all above,
What this thread is turning into is a witch hunt and it's despicable.
You continue to harp on about Islamisation and worst of all losing your freedom of speech, yet when I speak you immediately think that I'm attacking Americans?
The bottom line is quite simple. You do not know what the real story is behind 9/11. There are many unanswered questions, but when someone wishes to debate about it then they are immediately attacked.
You all seem to forget that Cornelius brought this into this thread and not I. He was the one, who hijacked this thread not I. Others decided to jump on the bandwagon because I'm doing something(questioning 9/11 and the hypocrisy of your government) that you continually do not want to discuss, showing that the majority of you, if not all are no better than the Islamists who do not want Islam discussed as you all do here on a daily basis.
I am attacking your governments and the decisions that they make. I'm attacking the pig ignorants here who will vote and follow blindly their political masters and never think to question any misdemeanour they make.
I was seriously thinking of learning about American Politics, but now, on second thought, if it means coming to a country full of sheeple like most of you, then I'll give it a miss.
Remember all that 'ignorance is bliss' and there are many blissful people on here. There's no doubt about that.
All of you have hijacked this thread. This topic on 9/11 was in the past in another thread but you all had to bring it up.
It means one thing really that although all of you are NeoCon republicans, with the exception of PMK, then the election of Obama really doesn't concern or interest you that much.
Good luck when you have him in power. Welcome to socialism and oppression as that will come.
Can't say it's been nice reading the utter tripe most of you have to say, but hey, it's America and I gate to say it, but percentage wise, intelligence amongst Americans is lucky to reach double figures.
Hasta La Vista Morons ;)
It's woefully, pathetic to see so many gullible people, actually follow and believe these greedy, selfish, power hungry, control freaks, thinking that they're "reaching out to the people" when all they're interested in is all that money and power, not forgetting the perks and future job offers at being President of the USA. Worse still they actually vote for them too.
Posted by: Mark at October 11, 2008 12:40 AM
Could not have put it better, myself. Excellent critical observation, Mark!
Posted by: Alert at October 11, 2008 2:45 AM
Mark, does the above look like 'witch hunt'? Don't you want the 'proof' for 9/11, you asked for? Even after the disagreements, sorry to see you leave. Good luck!
"...it's America and I hate to say it .. but intelligence wise ... among Americans is lucky to reach double figures." Mark
I don't think he hated to say it at all. I think he was out to bash Americans all along. Read his posts and it's obvious. There's a difference between having a polite disagreement and hurling unwarranted insults at a whole group every chance one gets. He said something to that effect as far as comments on Islam here, but this site is called "jihad watch" not "American watch." What did he expect?
I wish good luck to him too, anyway. He's going to need it.
This was just my objective in dredging up Mark's 9-11 bullshit...to galvanize the regulars and drive that deluded troofer away.
We can argue amongst ourselves over tactics and strategy and we can certainly welcome adversarial discourse with Muslims and Liberals...it compels us to crystallize and articulate our beliefs with focus and, who knows, it may occasionally open a mind or two.
But a 9-11 troofer is different. The myopia governing such a mindset is a hopeless one....and he didn't just believe it about the USA, he believed it about Britain's 7-7.
People like Mark are offering our Islamic enemies carte blanch to perpetrate episode after episode of mass murder...with complete moral immunity.
PMK,
No one is more unhappy with the illegal immigration situation than I. Having said that, McCain is more likely to apply moderate controls on illegal immigration than OB. OB will open the flood gates to get all those votes. McCain will not get by with that.
McCain will do more than OB to stop Islam. OB will open the flood gates on Islam for votes. That is our choice. If you know of another choice, I don't know what it is. Tancredo is great but not on the ticket. Some relief from our enemies is better than no relief. OB will give us no relief.
Cornelius, Thanks for saying what I was thinking regarding Mark. Conspiracy theorists are a hopeless lot and a big waste of time and resources.
Spot On,
I hear you buddy.
But the 9-11 troofers are more than that. They are like a cancer eating away at the nation's soul, compromising our ability to garner the moral, intellectual, and material wherewithal to defend our nation and our civilization. The more people imbued with just a scintilla of doubt, the less mobilized we are to face our enemies.
My own nephew presented me with a troofer link to a video that was so full of holes it was laughable. He called it "the most important piece of investigative journalism you'll ever read."
After I shot it down, point by point, he changed his tune, admitted that he'd just "over-reacted a little"...and on second thought (my deconstruction), realized it was bullshit.
My nephew is a 20-something, successful IT type who could be called intelligent by any standard. Yet, he was so uninformed and naive that he bought that well-packaged pack-of-lies, lock, stock and barrel.
I'm new here - so may not know the appropriate way to enter a conversation. So, I'll just ask my question and hope it gets onto the main page.
I've been searching all over the Internet to find a support group of Muslims for McCain and haven't found a single one. Yet there are many groups, and ESPECIALLY, blogs, which make me squirm and fear the future.
Second question - Anyone have an idea why, if many think Obama will lead this country into Socialism and perhaps oppression, WHY??? are the polls pointing to an Obama win?
BBnana: "I've been searching all over the Internet to find a support group of Muslims for McCain and haven't found a single one."
RESPONSE: Good luck with that.
BBnana: "Second question - Anyone have an idea why, if many think Obama will lead this country into Socialism and perhaps oppression, WHY??? are the polls pointing to an Obama win?"
RESPONSE: Easy. Those who CARE that Obama will lead this country into socialism are, tragically, a minority.
Welcome aboard BB. Sunni or Shia...(if I may ask)?
Cornelius - neither - more like Sunny Florida.
Re your answer to question #2 - I feel I'm drowning as I work toward informing people and asking them to ask questions instead of repeating sound bites from Obama's web site. Lost more friends than I converted. Is anyone else "working" or have most given up? What's the phenomena?
Re #1 I still want to know what the underlying reason is that Muslims are for Obama. Is my question rhetorical?
And now 3 - Does anyone think the current state of our economy, actually global calamity, is "economic terrorism"?
"Re #1 I still want to know what the underlying reason is that Muslims are for Obama. Is my question rhetorical?"
BBnana, Muslims can see that Obama will protect and support their agendas much more than McCain or anybody else will.
Al Qaeda is not the only radical Islamic terrorist organization. It is one of about 30 of them. But all the diatribe against Bush is based on the fact that Hussein did not collaborate with al Qaeda in attacking the US on 9/11. It ignores all the relationships between Iraq and other terrorist groups which are of great concern particularly when coupled with Iraq's programs to acquire nuclear bombs. It was found not to have an existing stockpile of WMD but its programs to acquire WMD were in place.
The CIA underemphasized the relationship between Saddam Hussein's Iraq and Islamic radical organizations because they believed that secular governments such as that of Iraq would not cooperate with religious radicals such as the 30 or so groups of religious Islamists. That has been shown to be false. Even though the Islamists want to destroy the secular governments to establish one world wide caliphate, they will cooperate with the secular Muslim governments against their common enemy, Israel and the United States and the West.
Islamist Terrorist Groups
al-Qaeda
Hezbollah
Hezbollah (Turkish)
al-Harakah al-Islamiyyah fi al-arak
Jamaat Ansar al-Sunna
The Mujahiddeen fi al-jama'ah al salafiyah fi al-'arak
Jihad Brigades/Cell
White Flags
Muslim Youth
Army of Mohammed
Ansar al-Islam
Fatah al-Islam
Fatah-al-Intifada
Hamas(Harakat al-Muqawama al-Islamiyya
Islamic Jihad
Armed Islamic Group (Algeria)
Salafist Group for Preaching and Combat (GSPAC)
Laskar-e-Tolba
Jaish-e-Mohammed (killed Daniel Pearl)
Harkut-ul_Mujahideen
Jamaat-ul-Mujahideen
Taliban
Hezb-e-Islami Gulbuddin
al-Harakat al-Islamiyya
Some of the Terrorist groups in Gaza
Hamas
Islamic Jihad
Al-Qaeda
Al-Ahraar
Abu Ali Mustafa Brigades (of the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine
Jaish al-Islam (the Army of Islam; an Al-Qaeda branch in Gaza)
Army of the Umma
Fatah al-Islam (an additional branch of Al-Qaeda).
Illinois residents? Iowa caucus voters exposed…
http://www.lynettelong.com/caucusfraud/iowa.html
Is it a coincidence that Obama dominated Eastern Iowa? Or was something else going on? Is Eastern Iowa demographically different than Western Iowa? The following problem was consistently and repeatedly voiced regarding the Iowa caucus:
Voter Fraud and Busing - There are numerous reports of the Obama campaign busing Illinois residents from to Iowa to participate in the Iowa caucus. Obama campaign openly acknowledges handing out fifty-thousand fliers advising students to "go back to school" to caucus. A look at a map of the caucus results shows Obama had a distinct dominance in the Eastern part of the state.
BBnana: "Re #1 I still want to know what the underlying reason is that Muslims are for Obama. Is my question rhetorical?"
RESPONSE: Muslims in America largely supported George W in 2000 because of affinity with conservative principles. They felt betrayed after the invasions of Afghanistan and - particularly - Iraq. They turned to Kerry in 2004 and now enthusiastically support Obama.
Denver Rodeo is dead-on about the agenda thing: the Muslim perception is that Obama will be much more accommodating, particularly in foreign policy, given his opposition to the Iraq war.
BBnana: "Does anyone think the current state of our economy, actually global calamity, is "economic terrorism"?"
RESPONSE: I've thought about this too. The problems are real, but the timing is interesting. The crises has created the perfect storm for Obama. One does wonder about the Soros crowd, notorious for manipulating markets in the past (some say George Soros single-handedly created the Asian market melt-down in the late 90s).
Meanwhile, keep plugging away against all odds my friend.
PS - Today at Drudgereport.com, we learn that McCain and 19 other Republicans wrote a letter warning of impending disaster at Fannie and Freddie, and demanding regulatory oversight. There is a copy of the letter with signatures.
One wonders why McCain hasn't brought this up in the campaign? Is he senile?
Tom Tancredo bailed before the real contests began. He didn't give Americans a chance. He let the early primaries, dominated by machines and special interests, be his guide.
He abandoned us. We recognized him long ago.
Posted by: PMK at October 11, 2008 4:29 PM
PMK,
Given Tom Tancredo got not more than 1% votes while he was in the running, he bailed out because it was just too expensive to run on one's own rather than on a Republican ticket.
I was crushed and to a certain am still hurting to see America throw-away a God-sent candidate to fight the enemy:
- Illegal Immigration.
- Islam.
If anyone is spot-on on these dangers, it is Tom Tancredo, R-CO.
Tom definitely would have addressed this: http://atlasshrugs2000.typepad.com/atlas_shrugs/2008/10/islamists-day-p.html#more