News flash from the UK: Jihad to end by 2038

Jihad to end by 2038
From the headline

I wonder if this has anything to do with the fact that 2038 is also the maximum date that could be represented in the old 16-bit IBM PCs? The question is, who is it that should consider updating their computer systems, DSTL or Al-Queda? ;-)

News flash from the UK: Jihad to end by 2038

Well it's actually a pretty safe bet.

The jihad, in the UK at least, will be over in 30 years because if what's left of the British don't man-up and take their country back the UK will have lost, the jihaddis will take control and Great Britain will be gone.

But the fighting will be over either way.

"He [Lord West] said he accepted Britain's foreign policy was a "problem" for some young Muslims but the government was now "engaging" with them.

"This isn't going to change just like that. To stop this radicalisation and extremism is going to take - and I get into trouble for saying this -about 30 years, I think.

"But it will become a virtuous circle, it will start getting better and better and we have to embark on it and the recognition of that I think is one of the big things that has happened over the last 15 months."

He said Britain could not "arrest and protect ourselves out of this problem" and the government was "putting work into prisons, into places of worship, into sports clubs" to tackle extremism.

But he added: "I don't pretend for a moment that we are nearly there. I regularly go out and talk to youngsters and some of the reactions I find just amazing, because you think 'how on earth can you believe that' but you need to have a dialogue."
-- from the article above, quoting the security minister Lord West

Oh, Lord West assures us, it [the problem of Muslim hostility toward the Infidel nation-state and toward Infidels] "will not end just like that." No, unlike so many others, West knows the campaign to integrate Muslims fully into British society -- presumably the way they have integrated in other Infidel nations, and if you give me a year perhaps I will think of one example of this, or at least will pretend to be able to -- will take time. Call Lord West just a bit too hard-headed, just a bit too cautiously pessimistic, but by god, he's going to say it anyway: this won't be easy, this will take about thirty years.

So what is it that will happen over the next thirty years to allow Muslims to cease to work to undo the legal and political institutions of Great Britain, and to work for a country where there are no obstacles to the dominance of Islam and of Muslims? What is it that will happen? Can West tell us? Will the texts of the Qur'an and Hadith have changed by then? Will Muhammad cease to be the Perfect Man, al-insan al-kamil? Will the decapitation of the Banu Qurayza, the murders of Abu Akaf and Asma bint Marwan, the attack on the farmers of the Khaybar Oasis, all be cut out of the biography of the Perfect Man? And what about little Aisha -- will she have ten years added to her age?

And will the very idea of a duty, on the part of Muslims, to remove all obstacles to the spread, and then the dominance, of Islam, be eliminated, because in the United Kingdom Lord West and assorted officials will have gone around "listening" to the "concerns" of Muslim "youths"? Is that what will do it? Will that be the "virtuous circle" (a modish term, and completely inappropriate) that Lord West gushes about in his comical Coueism, in which things just get "better and better" -- just before he dissolves into this -- "and we have to embark on it and the recognition of that I think is one of the big things that has happened over the last 15 months" -- which offers an example of telling incoherence.

Still, Lord West appears, in his Outreach to Muslim Youth, to have gotten a glimmer of the dismal truth, but he still doesn’t know what to do with it. This is how it is delicately put:

“But he [Lord West] added: "I don't pretend for a moment that we are nearly there. I regularly go out and talk to youngsters and some of the reactions I find just amazing, because you think 'how on earth can you believe that' but you need to have a dialogue."

Perhaps Lord West should ponder “some of the reactions” that he finds “just amazing” because, you see, they give pause even to Lord West, someone who goes out to “have a ‘dialogue,” because what they say makes him think “how on earth can you believe that?” One would like him to tell us exactly what they say that causes him to react in that way; specific examples would help focus minds on the size, and durability, of the problem. But this Lord West does not do.

Of greatest interest too, is the fact that Lord West claims he has “gotten into trouble” for predicting that it would take 30 years to deal with the “problem” of Muslims in Great Britain and their views, and one presumes, from his tone, that he has gotten into trouble because others think he is being a pessimist, an alarmist, someone who thinks this is a far greater problem than it is. Others, better informed, will recognize that Lord West should have “gotten into trouble” for absurdly seeming to suggest that within thirty years the immutable texts of Islam, and hence what Islam inculcates, will somehow have changed, when no one can demonstrate exactly how a single word will be changed, or how Muslims could be persuaded even to drop the Hadith (as such fake “reformers” as Mustafa Akyol suggest could be so easily done), much less ignore the very heart of the Qur’an.

And then there is this astonishing insistence by Lord West: He said Britain could not "arrest and protect ourselves out of this problem" and the government was "putting work into prisons, into places of worship, into sports clubs" to tackle extremism.”

He’s quite wrong. The only way to “protect [sic] ourselves out of the problem” is indeed to halt any further immigration of Muslims, to arrest all those who can be charged with supporting the overthrow by violent means, or the ending, by non-violent means (Money Weapon, Da’wa, demographic conquest) of the legal and political institutions of Great Britain, and who wish to work for the replacement of that Infidel nation-state by a land ruled of, by, and for Muslims, a state in which non-Muslims would be reduced to what, under Muslim rule, over almost all of the past 1350 years, almost everywhere that such rule has been established over non-Muslims, has been correctly seen as the classic, Shari’a-imposed condition of the dhimmi. That, for the native British, and for other, but non-Muslim, immigrants, is unacceptable, and must be opposed by all means, including those “arrests” that Lord West thinks – quite wrongly and inexplicably – are simply not to be considered, are simply, in his naïve universe, beyond the pale, “unthinkable.”

No, they’re not. What is “unthinkable” is that two thousand years of British history, and the slow development of human freedom, should go down the drain, and with in the possibilities for art, science, human freedom, that are not to be found in Islam, merely because of a mistake in immigration policy made forty years ago and not recognized for several decades. No. Mere head-counting will not count. Demography is destiny, and if the British come to their senses now, or very soon, they can deal with this unprecedent threat to them, and to what makes them them. Nothing good can come out of any further rise in the relative, or absolute, number of Muslims anywhere in the Western world. If they cannot offer unfeigned allegiance to the legal and political framework of Infidel nation-states, they should not be granted citizenship, and should not be allowed to continue to benefit from citizenship acquired fraudulently, at a time when the menace of Islam was not recognized, or understood.

"Liberal Taj Hargey dares to challenge prohibitionist Islam"

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/faith/article4922305.ece

Dar al-Islam.

30 years time, with current trends of Middle Classes upping and leaving to move to North America and Australisia will bring in a much larger population of Muslims, not forgetting more refugees from African Muslim countries too. Then take into consideration the complete destruction of Christianity in the UK and the allowing of Imams to preach in former Christian Schools - conversion rate into Islam will get far higher.

I study in a University in Central London. It must be 70%(at least Muslim). There are many lecturers who are Muslim, from all over the World. There is material regularly passed out to all students regardless of colour, from Muslims, on many Islamic topics. Today's topic was "Islam does not oppress Women even though there are loads of Muslim girls who walk about in Burkhas and Hijabs.
The lecturing is very left wing, pro Multi Cultural and very anti National, from the viewpoint of "I'm a foreigner and should be allowed into your country regardless, to live how I choose, to have equal opportunities and should not be made to integrate or subdue my own culture over yours.
This is being taught not just in London but all over the UK. The indoctrination has begun and people are lapping it up. There are also 'western' women in full Islamic attire too.

The simple situation is this - ISLAMISATION IS INEVITABLE. Many of you will of course disagree with me, but then you will of course miss the point completely. Some of you may in fact say that I'm pro Islam(I'm far from it) however, I'm just looking at the facts presented before my own very eyes.
Walk around London and you will see, in schools that the larger population of youngsters are Muslim/Asian, followed by Black(most definitely African origin and then white(very probably Eastern European). This is the demography of our future populations in London and the 'odd' white indigenous Brit is now in the same place as 'Blacks/Muslims' were in the 70's in schools in London. There has been a complete turn around of events.

Islamisation is happening because we have a tolerant culture that will not institute draconian measures to stop the growth of Islam. Muslims will get into politics. They will create their own Islamic party that ALL Muslims will vote for. They will become the opposition party and the main party will of course, upon seeing the growth of Islam, start appeasing Muslims even more in order to capture their vote. The Islamic party will simply win, as it is united, whereas the rest of the UK is divided.

Doom and gloom? Yup, but this is because the society we have is a society we've done nothing to change and stop from becoming.
It's inevitable, you can't stop the inevitable, but then there will be a war, there's no doubt about that and the West very possibly will win it.
However, that war could easily have been avoided if some individuals had had some foresight to see the implications of allowing an intolerant Ideology to live and grow amongst a tolerant society. No one is prepared to make the move to bring about change by introducing radical measures to maintain a democratic, secular society. However, they will see in the future, that they should have, that is, after millions of lives have been lost fighting a war that simply, should never have happened. History repeats itself and something that none of us ever learn from.
Multiculturalism created conflict and no one is yet able to make that statement officially for fear of being ostracised in Political Circles.

2038 - peace? yes, for a short while.

I agree. This war is going to become much, much larger. The issues to be resolved are just too big and have far too much impact.

On Lord West's banner there is this motto or strange device: "the timeless idiocy of today and tomorrow."

I just figured out where it comes from:

http://www.buy4lesstuxedo.com/Lord_West_Formal_Wear.htm

"To stop this radicalisation and extremism is going to take - and I get into trouble for saying this - about 30 years..."
===================================

He is / they are / just simply DETERMINED to not know history, and to therefore REPEAT it, aren't they? History records 1400 years of conquest and plunder and butchery by Islam against the West, but our leaders grit their teeth and insist that it's irrelevant?

It must have been easier in the olden days when invading hordes of bloodthirsty marauders were not granted civil rights and protected-minority status, I suppose.

A question for the dedicated leaders of the West, sworn to protect and defend their countries, maintain civil order, and provide for the common weal: (First-- yes, our way of life is grounded in the belief that all men have God-given rights of life, liberty, and so forth. Once we let aliens into our countries we must grant them the same rights we have -- so we can't just round them all up and ship them off to "camps"; we can't deny them free speech, freedom of association, freedom of worship; we can't assume evil intent without a demonstration of evil intent.) BUT -- don't we have a choice not to invite more of them to come here? Can't we deny visas to/from known "trouble spots" such as Pakistan? (So sorry, AbdolHassan, you won't be going back to visit the clan and pick up a 14-year-old bride.) Can't we make it harder for religious idiots to fly in from Wherever-stan to preach hate and solicit donations for the jihad?

We'll obviously still have to watch the ones already here like hawks. We'll have to have more culturally-normative police and military. (No more PC-feelgood recruitment of members of clannish hostile subgroups to show we "respect the sensitivities" of their fellows. We're talking national security here.) We'll have to fire up our legislatures to figure out how to excise pro-jihad brainwashing from religious schools. We'll need to go into immigrant neighborhoods and offer English/ citizenship classes, at which we can explain our laws, history, and customs. We need to insist that, since THEY came to live with US, THEY need to adapt to US. IF they can't, well then let's offer a free, permanent, trip back to their homeland.

There's a lot do be done, but FIRST STOP NEW IMMIGRATION OF MUSLIMS INTO THE WEST!

There's a lot do be done, but FIRST STOP NEW IMMIGRATION OF MUSLIMS INTO THE WEST!
Posted by: A_Nonny_Mouse

It will NEVER HAPPEN, until the REAL first step is accomplished.

The real first step, the very first step is to explain to our fellow Kuffar who and what
uswa hasana, Muhammad “The Model of Conduct” is – in great detail.

Only then will we have a chance at convincing our fellow Infidels to do that which is common sense.

Chip? Chip Chapman?

The name itself invites ridicule.

A_Nonny_Mouse wrote:

We'll need to go into immigrant neighborhoods and offer English/ citizenship classes, at which we can explain our laws, history, and customs. We need to insist that, since THEY came to live with US, THEY need to adapt to US. IF they can't, well then let's offer a free, permanent, trip back to their homeland.

Don't take this the wrong way, but did you read my first post above?
A Lecturer stated today "they(meaning the British/British Government) want me to assimilate into Britain, to being British?"
He is a lecturer in a prestigious London University, from the Middle East.
This is what people are just not quite catching. People who come to the UK, know that they can be whomever they want to be and have no loyalty to the UK whatsoever, to keep their own culture and if we have a problem with it, then it's off to our courts and if that doesn't work then off to the European Human Rights Courts that will DEFINITELY work.
The Indoctrination has already begun, in our Universities. They are exceptionally left wing. We CANNOT CHANGE WHAT ALREADY IS. They know who they are and what their rights are, rights that our government has given them.
Our children are being fed the left-wing/pro Muslim propaganda in our colleges/Universities. It is the foreign lecturers who are teaching our children to embrace multiculturalism and accept other people's cultures, as they are NOT British people but foreigners themselves. They would be mad not to. It is happening. The Left wing Education, propped up by the Left wing media is what's happening. You can't stop it, not unless with serious drastic action that will cause civil strife.

You can post whatever you will. People on here can post whatever they will. Islam is here to stay, to grow and to take over and there's nothing that can be done unless DRASTIC, DRACONIAN measures are taken. Unless we have a situation like in the film "Children of Men", where all the Muslims and immigrants are being rounded up and removed from the UK, the Islamisation is inevitable. Muslims will not go of their own accord. They will not adapt to being British or follow the history of the UK. Why should they? They will follow their own history from their ancestral homes.

The whole key to immigration in order to make it work is to take an exceptionally small number every year, split them up, don't allow them to form their own communities, make sure they learn English as their own language and yes indoctrinate them FROM AN EARLY AGE into being British and following our rules and laws and allegiance to this country over any other.
When Immigrants come here they immediately head to their respective communities, dotted all over the UK. The government has allowed this to grow and grow and simply hasn't a clue about future repercussions. They have allowed states within the UK to develop and it won't be long before the West Midlands starts completely breaking away from the UK. The same with London, or should I say, parts of London.

Islam, like I've said is here to stay, to grow and Islamise. Unless serious, oppressive steps, that will alienate the UK off from many countries comes into play then kiss goodbye to what you know to be Britain. This is no joke. Things have slipped to far down the line to be sorted out easily. Britain is full of Islamists and sleepers, waiting to attack when the call is given. The police haven't a clue and are powerless to act in the event and even when they do, they'll still tread carefully around the Muslims, so as to not cause offence and upset.
The situation in the UK is dire. Britain is sinking deeper into the Bog that is Islam and it's not alone. The rest of Europe is following suit and some already sinking much deeper.

We can write all day about this, but nothing will change. Drastic, draconian measures need to be taken, that if implemented would immediately bring UN and the Human Rights courts against the UK. We would be shut off from the rest of Europe and that is a gamble that people WILL not or ever take.

Things have gone too far down the line already. The National pride no longer is in the UK, well certainly not amongst anyone in the Inner Cities under 30 or so that is. We have let this happen. We have allowed ourselves to be controlled by Politicians who care little for us and have their own "snouts in the trough" agendas. England is weak, very weak. It's lost its backbone, the fights gone, the bulldog is sitting in the corner whimpering, emaciated and in poor health on its last legs, its pride gone, devastated in fact.
The French protest and the farmers lay manure on the highways bringing France to a standstill and what do we do? I'll tell you, watch X Factor and vote on Big Brother. I hate to say it, but the breed in our society that we've created isn't really worth saving. They're nothing more than an apathetic disease that really needs put out of its misery.

I'm afraid to say, we'll have to ride this out, let the War start and then see who's the better in the West - Islam or Non Islam. It will come to War, there's no doubt about that and it will be the bloodiest war the world has known. We will not just be attacked from outside but also from within. We will not know who our friends are from our enemies. Expect WW3 to happen as it's been a long time since the last major war.

I tell my friends that the war has already started and they just laugh at me.
Maybe you are right and our people are not worth saving, thay have become a disgrace.
But I have children and do not want to condemn them to Islamization which will make them despise my generation for not protecting them.
In particular, the Islamization of the entire world frightens me because Islamic sects and divisions will turn on each other, and the world will be in a state of permanent war. Far from being a state of peace, as Muslims imagine, the world will be a mess, especially if the creativity of the West is stifled.
So even though Islamization seems inevitable, for our children's sake we must fight.
But when I was in trouble in a Muslim country, people were so kind to me - they could not have been more thoughtful. It is so hard to reconcile those memories, and friendships made, with the bitter truth that they belong in their countries, and I in mine, and if their countries are bad to them, they should fight for change, not come here to live.

the schoolyard bullies are taking-over the school.

Richard -

you sound a bit discouraged.

Do you have friends who share your comprehension of this menace? Two? Three? A dozen? Invite them to dinner once a week and hold a council of war/ brainstorm session.

Doing *something* is better than doing nothing, no matter how hopeless things appear.

Re-read G K Chesterton, 'The Ballad of St Barbara' and 'The Ballad of the White Horse'. From the latter, in 'the vision of the king', the Virgin Mary speaks to Alfred, after he has asked her whether he will win or lose the war against the pagan Danish invaders:

"But you and all the kind of Christ
are ignorant and brave.
and you have wars you hardly win
and souls you hardly save.

I tell you naught for your comfort
yea, naught for your desire
Save that the sky grows darker yet
and the sea rises higher.

Night shall be thrice night over you
and heaven an iron cope:
Do you have joy without a cause,
yes, faith without a hope?"

Remember Arthur, Alfred, and Robin of Sherwood! Remember Pelayo (look him up).

If you have a mosque near where you live - start watching it.

Get a job lot of 'jihadwatch.org' stickers and scatter them up and down the town like Johnny Appleseed. A wonderful English lady who used to post here regularly a couple of years ago, under the name 'Granny Weatherwax' used to do that - strategically leaving little leaflets behind in the train and the bus for people to find.

You could always visit Geert Wilders' party website and make a donation. He's *one* politician in Europe who seems to be on point - I assume you've been watching that conversation between him and Mr Spencer that's been posted here on jihadwatch, in segments?

Furthermore - if you are a praying person - pray for *this* upcoming event to be a roaring success:

http://facingjihad.com/

It will involve a meeting of "30 European parliamentarians from Belgium, Denmark, Italy, the Netherlands, Sweden, Switzerland and the U.K., who oppose Islamization as well as immigration policies that disrupt social cohesion."

Note well: at least one UK MP is attending. I wonder who?

30 years? I think this is a pretty good estimate. Let's keep rollin'.

'If you have a mosque near where you live - start watching it' Dumbledoresarmy says.

Watch it for what reason and looking for what? All you would see is a bunch of Muslims standing around scowling at passersby. You might even get spat on as you walk by but usually this happens after the head banging session.

Dumbledoresarmy,

Thank you for your reply, as usual, detailed and to the point.
Thank you for your reading material, however trust me, when it comes to great works of Art, describing Great Britons, I've read them.

Please don't take this the wrong way, or even begin to think I'm patronising, but what I see every day, when I'm walking about is what discourages me.
You know as well as I do that the NuLabour government is doing its utmost to destroy our education system. Why? Well, an ignorant public that is more concerned in the divorce of Madonna & Guy Ritchie as well as the other usual topics of debate, football, X-Factor, Big brother etc. etc. poses no threat whatsoever to the government. An ignorant public is what they desire, even better a people, who many do not vote because of Political disillusionment, therefore allowing them power by minimal votes, undoubtedly from the Minorities.
This leads to the problem that our society really is not interested in what goes on around them. The first biggest issue is that people will have Muslim friends at work. This therefore removes any anxieties they have on Islam, as of course they their Muslim friends tell them otherwise, such as these Muslims doing terror are 'bad' Muslims and not true Muslims, even though they won't tell their colleague of the true History of Islam, especially Muhammad. Therefore, the true nature of Islam is immediately removed from the eyes of the British Public.
The second big issue is the media. They are continually portraying Islam as the Religion of Peace, strengthened by the fact that the Government also, in order to keep favouritism with the Islamic population, commissions programmes on the BBC to use its propaganda to reassure the public that Islam is 'ok'. Therefore like the first point the public are again being told lies about Islam in order to prevent much needed discussion on the subject.
The third big issue is the attacks from the left on anyone who attempts to speak out on Islam. From posting on various Forums on the Internet I have seen how successful they have been in immediately closing down debate by simple hijacking, leading to flaming and eventually to the removal of the thread. This has happened on many occasions. Simply, the left really have no idea what they are really doing and creating a hellish future for themselves, where one day they will be where we are, talking of the same subjects and trying to stop islamisation.
The fourth issue, which really should be possibly the first is the subject matter of above about the education system in the UK. The Left have completely gained control and seeing as the Left is Home to Islam, then they feel quite comfortable spreading their Islamic material all over the place, how Israel are killing Palestinians etc and how the Palestinians are a peaceful people with Israel being protected by the USA blah blah. Then of course there are the groups and associations that they advertise that are really Islamist groups etc etc, all on University Campuses.

Dumbledoresarmy, the main issue here is that the way of thinking, the pride that is within us of who we are, where we come from, what our ancestors gave to give us a free world, just is not in the youngsters of today, well, especially within inner cities. We are looking at a generation, totally against Britain and its culture, choosing to adopt an American Black vulgar Culture as their own that like Islam, is misogynistic as well as promotes violence. Don't get me wrong, there's always been that 'anarchism' amongst youth in the UK, but amongst all of it, they knew they were English/British and that includes the Mods and the Rockers of the pre 80's.

Islam is growing. There are no barriers on its expansion whatsoever. The government speaks of immigration controls at last, but will it really curtail those wishing to enter the UK? How will it be able to stop 400 million people from coming into the UK from Europe? Worse still, it's very likely that Turkey will be allowed into the EU meaning another 20million+ Muslims allowed free passage all over, not forgetting those who will come from the Middle East and Turkey as the door to Europe.

I like to look ahead and I know you mean well, but I really cannot see what you say to me to do will really have that much of an impact. Our media and education system are successfully indoctrinating the youth to hate their country and their British Culture. This is fact. They promote that to love ones culture and history is racist and xenophobic, because they live next to people that Britain has been at war with and it will make them feel uncomfortable. Political Correctness is destroying the UK.

Yes, I am discouraged, only because I'm out and about, watching a change happen in the people of the UK, who were once proud people and now are not for they are no longer British. Born in the UK and educated in our schools, their Britishness is only in name as they disagree with their history, heritage and culture because, as above, Left Wing "Hatred of the UK" has brainwashed them into thinking as they do. The worst time to indoctrinate someone is when they are young as they will then find it harder to go against what they know to be true.
We think the way we do because we were brought up under a far different Education System to them. We were brought up to love our country and the greatness of it not forgetting all the wonderful things our ancestors did not just for us but for the whole world.
Our flag the St George Cross and Union Jacks are seen as Racist symbols, soldiers are spat on when they walk down the street, not allowed to wear uniforms into hospitals so as not to upset Non Brits and not forgetting allowed into Harrods either.
Our country is being demolished to make way for multicultural Hell.

Lionheart

I find your posts extremely depressing, the situation in the north of England regarding muslim colonies – for that is what they are - is bad, but not that bad at least in our town. People outside the UK do not appreciate the extent of censorship and repression here.

7 years ago there were riots in one town probably as a result of the killing of a 17-year-old white lad by “Asians”. This was the culmination of years of attacks on anyone with a white face found in “their” area and the police chief had gone public about the seriousness of the situation 6 months earlier. He was called an incompetent racist by the left and “retired” for his trouble. From what I could glean from postings on the web the events leading up to the boys death suggested naked and unprovoked racist aggression. He and two friends were “Hunted through the area like frightened animals”.

What struck me most was talking to a student who attended the town’s college. He told me the situation was so bad the college had had to close down for 2 weeks and added, “Why can they (the townspeople) not just accept we are a multiracial society”. He lived just 4 miles from the centre of the rioting, went to college there and had no idea what was going on in the town!

My awakening came 10 years ago when I called at a repair shop on the main road through a muslim enclave. It had moved half a mile up the road and I knew the owner well enough to ask why? “Because I was fed up with Asian (muslim) lads asking me what I was doing in their area at night.” Since then I have worked in muslim areas and seen at first hand the contempt they have for every aspect of our society. They were/are for the most part illiterate labourers (my interpreters description – not mine) who could not believe their luck. They may not have heard the expression “Never give a sucker a break” but they know how to operate it.

What can we do? A work colleague first asked me that in a desperate whisper one Monday morning. He had to whisper because it was a 75% muslim office and our job was to administer 7 yes 7 different handouts to a 98% muslim area. That Saturday his wife had arrived home in a hysterical state because the muslims had rioted and taken over the town centre. Naturally the riot was not reported in any of the MSM.

So what can we do? I write carefully worded letters to my MP about specific issues and receive replies telling me “I appreciate your concern but we must set against this the benefits we gain from being a rich and diverse multicultural society” Complete rubbish of course but what else can he say? I only hope he does not believe it and I would be insulted if he thought I did.

I understand and respect you reservations about the BNP (not a member) but one of their candidates was prosecuted in Scotland for an election leaflet stating muslims had started the trouble in one city. The judge agreed it was true but told him that as it was likely to incite racial hatred it was illegal and gave him 12 months. When or where else has it been democratic to jail people for telling the truth? Because of this and media censorship writing to an MP is the only means of free expression left to us. If enough informed and literate people - particularly those like you with mixed race families - do so, the lying gutless b******* will begin to worry and that’s a start.

Last word. Following statements by leading politicians that "It was impossible to remove X hundred thousand immigrants and asylum seekers" I wrote to my MP reminding him that "Between 2 March 1916 and November 1918 the government had no trouble rounding up 3 million or more reluctant young men and shipping them off to France. 3/4 of a million of them are still there. That was without the aid of computers so I cannot see the problem". He did not take up that point in his anodyne reply.

Re my last post,

"When or where else has it been democratic to jail people for telling the truth?

I remember when and where else. About 1948 a Hungarian got so fed up he stood in the middle of a factory and shouted "Look at me Janos **** 34 years old 2 kids and I cannot get a packet of cigarettes in this workers paradise!" He got 2 years for spreading anti-state propaganda.

Richard the Lionheart:

Drastic, draconian measures need to be taken, that if implemented would immediately bring UN and the Human Rights courts against the UK. We would be shut off from the rest of Europe and that is a gamble that people WILL not or ever take.

We need to withdraw from the EU(SSR) and scrap the Human Rights Act pronto. Short of civil war, the only way to achieve this is to vote for a political party whose manifesto promises those very things.

The choices? BNP or UKIP. Veritas and to a lesser extent, the EDP, are not big enough to put up enough candidates for national coverage. However, the best solution would be for these parties to swallow their collective pride, deflate their egos and merge to form one fighting force. None of these parties alone currently has the clout to sufficiently frighten the LibLabCon Islamophile traitors, and none is likely to until it is too late.

Sadly I don't think the respective leadership of these parties would countenance a merger except in the most dire of circumstances, by which time it could be too late. By dire, I mean for example the existence of an Islamic political party which is likely to form the next government, or an official declaration by the EUSSR that the UK is to forfeit its sovereignty.

To those of you out there who continue to vote for the LibLabCon pact: you are complicit in the destruction of your country and you should be ashamed of yourselves.

Fred:

Like you, I have written to my (Tory) MP. I pointed out to him shortly after the event how last year's SIOE demo in Brussels had been quashed by bully-boy tactics from the Belgian state. I got no reply.

MPs ARE NOT INTERESTED!!

AS FAR AS THEY ARE CONCERNED THE PEOPLE AND THEIR OPINIONS CAN GO TO HELL

Their only concern is staying as MPs because of all the cash that cascades into their welcoming pockets. They dare not say or do anything to rock the cosy multicultural boat - be they Lib, Lab or Con - because the acquisition of money is deemed more important than the future of the country.

Look at the Ed Balls(up)/Yvette Cooper MP duo - a match made in Red hell. They each claim the full MP's accommodation allowance yet they live in the same property. Further, they claim that their London property is their second home (which means they get a shed load of our cash to live there) yet their kids go to school in London, thus suggesting it is their main residence, which should mean they don't qualify for a second home allowance for that property.

The Tories are no better. Remember Derek Conway who paid his sons thousands to do fuck-all? At the time, as well as being an MP Conway was also chief exec of the Cats Protection League, drawing a salary of £80,000. Add that to his MP's salary of £60,000 minimum and he was earning something like 6 times the average wage. Tosser.

THESE PEOPLE ARE TRAITOROUS PARASITES WITH ALL THE INTEGRITY AND COMPASSION OF A RABID WEASEL

The good guys won Britain's last civil war. Will they be able to win the next one?

I hadn't realized how far and deep the cancer has spread in the UK. Very depressing stuff.

INTIMIDATION! One word says it all. We "infidels" try to live The Golden Rule and although we fail miserably at times, hatred, viciousness and violence are against our nature!

We turn our backs when we should be shouting, like Winston Churchil, NEVER NEVER NEVER give up. (I may not spell his name right, but good old Winston had the right idea.)

This American admires and loves Britain! FIGHT FIGHT FIGHT FOR YOUR COUNTRY !! Take it back!

Watling

I would still write, my MP takes up to 6 months to reply but I know the system and all letters are fed into the political machine. In the case of NuLabour particularly informed and thoughtful letters will be passed to the Home Office. That way they know what we are thinking and almost as importantly, what we know.

It may sound like Orwellian doublethink but take the fact he has not replied as a positive sign. He has not replied because he has no answer but he now knows what you think and they would be fools to ignore it completely. It also suggests that you wrote an objective letter or he would have replied dismissing you as a racist.

Dumbledoresarmy,

I enjoy reading your posts, and in my opinion, they are among the most intellegent, insightful posts that appear here.

I'm sorry to say then, that, like Tommo, I have no idea what to watch for in my local mosque, which is unfortunate, as it's right across the street. (If I didn't throw like a girl, I might be able to send a stone over their wall.)

The behaviour he describes, is the same behaviour I see--Muslims standing around, scowling at non-Muslims, as they pass. If anything of interest is going on, over there, it's happening inside the building.

So far, I've observed only that the number of cars in the parking lot has increased, on Fridays, and that the attendance at Ramadan, after sunset, was huge, this year. I've observed also that few women attend. The congregants are, for the most part, men.

The adolescent boys play a lot of basketball, at night, when the weather gets cooler. Sometimes they play very late into the night. Often, they don't leave until after midnight.

The place is also supposedly a madrassa, but only once have I seen a trio of boys walking from that general direction, carrying school-type backpacks.

For all I know, they might have gotten off their school bus, farther up the road, though that doesn't make sense, as there is another stop farther along in the direction they were walking. Unless they just felt like walking...

I've noticed that the cars are all pretty good. I haven't seen any very big ticket cars, but they're all more or less late model--nothing like the rustbuckets some other people (Americans on tight budgets) drive.

A few months ago, the wall around the place was "tagged" (I think that's the term the young folks use) with graffiti. It didn't look like Arabic, but it was no more legible. I believe it was only the work of kids with spray paint, who couldn't resist the broad canvas of a wall. They (the Muslims) hired a filthy kafir with a compressor, to paint over it.

Oh, and most, if not all of the attendees are "Asian". I don't think I've ever spotted a white person, nor a black person, entering the place.

But you see, right? This is all that anyone can see--the external stuff. This is just about the only thing that makes me wish I were a man. If I were, I could infiltrate.

If you were me, what else would you do?

I've thought of taking license plate numbers, but my binoculars aren't strong enough, plus I'd have to get somewhere with enough height, to see past the wall. All else I've seen has been in passing, through the two breaks in the wall designed for gates.

Fred:

I'd like to believe that MPs do read correspondence from the plebs but remain unconvinced that they do. Ditto for newspaper columnists. I have emailed both Littlejohn and Melanie Phillips but got no reply. With Littlejohn at least you get an automatic acknowledgement.

Ironically the only journalist I have ever had a reply from was the Deputy Political Editor at the Daily Mirror, whose answer suggested he had misunderstood my question (a pretence, no doubt, to avoid the issue at hand).

As you have implied, the stock answer to awkward, politically incorrect questions is to fall back on the "harmonious, diverse, multicultural Britain" claptrap. There is no way a "mainstream" politician would dare to engage in dialog with someone who disagreed with the PC/multiculti doctrine, which is why Nick Griffin never gets invited to debate with "mainstream" politicians.

MPs can simply trot out the aforementioned stock answer to end the debate and then get back to the serious business of accumulating wealth for themselves at taxpayers' expense. This applies to Labour, LibDem and Tory.

I can't believe that MPs treat letters from the plebs as anything other than an annoyance that distracts them from their lucrative careers.

Fred,

I am sorry if my posts come across as depressing. I hope you found it depressing in the same context that I found Melanie Phillips' Londonistan depressing.
I just tell it as it is.
I do not hate Muslims. I just think it despicable that that they should live in our society, one that they are completely against, want to adopt their culture over ours and yet ours is far superior to anything they could ever hope to imagine.
What I find even more despicable is people, in government doing their utmost best to completely destroy the UK, with their support of Islamism, for let's face it, you really don't need a Politics degree, or any degree for that matter, to see just where Islamic appeasement will get us.
The death of the boy you talk about is almost identical to the 15 years old Scottish schoolboy, captured by Muslims in Glasgow, tortured, beaten, stabbed and then set on fire with petrol.

My reservations about the BNP are such that I find them a hopelessly, amateur outfit when it comes to Politics. From my experience of them(I have sent many a mail to them) I just do not believe that they are capable. However, they may be my only choice as I will never vote for the main 3, ever!

Fred, have a read of "The Great Immigration Scandal" by Steve Moxon. He was the Whistle Blower that cost Beverly Hughes her job in the Cabinet, although it should have gone higher to Blunkett.
I can only plod on with my study and who knows, maybe one day I'll form a political party, to stop the Islamisation. You never know.

watling,

I completely agree with you and I've said it before. The likes of the BNP, Veritas, UKIP and the EDP should amalgamate into the British People's Sovereignty Party or something like that. Then we could have journalists such as Melanie Phillips, Peter Hitchens and Littlejohn, uniting with them to get the message across. They all write for the Mail and as far as I'm concerned it's the last Sovereign newspaper in the UK(although very censored).
We need to immediately pull out of Europe and control our own borders. We should still trade with Europe but that's where our affiliation with them stops. We should as you say(and I've said many times) scrap our connection to the Human Rights Courts and go back to English Law, that was reformed.
Our biggest mistake was also not uniting with the Serbians in the Yugoslav War. They were the first country in Europe to take up arms against the Muslims and yet we destroyed their resistance and protected the Muslims, setting a future nightmare scenario, with as you already know the first Muslim European State with Kosovo.

The Islamic Party will happen and very soon. In fact I really wouldn't be surprised if the Respect party is the 'tester' for it. It, as you know won against the Labour Party with George Galloway in Bethnal Green and Bow last General Election.

Our country is divided and that's why we have the current problem. The Government is 100% to blame and all should be tried and executed for Treason. They really have done nothing less.

P.S.

There really is no point in contacting your local MP about this. They know and have known for a long time the immigration/Multiculturalism situation is a big problem with the British Population. They know that many are completely against it and their lack of action shows just where they stand and on whose side more importantly.

We need a complete removal from power of the Conservatives, Labour and Liberal Parties as they have become stagnant parties and politicians, bloated fat on the greed that their politician wage and 'perks' gives them.

There needs to be a channel in the UK, not afraid to broadcast the lies, corruption, Islamisation and problems with immigration. After all, it is the media the left are using to brainwash the public into telling us all it's ok.

When I read about other peoples experiences with Muslims in their areas, its like as if they are in a foreign country. In my area, which is near Brighton, we don't have these problems - yet. There are signs however that Brighton is having to take it's share of immigrants and these are housed somewhere in the city. My neighbours are reluctant to discuss the Muslim menace and have enough to think about just making a living and bringing up their kids. Now that Christmas is near, the threat of a Muslim terrorist strike (still at severe) is well off their agenda.

I think if ever the grand mosque and Islamic centre is allowed to be built in Wembley it will be the signal that the beginning of the end of England as we know it is near. It will also send a clear message to the whole world that the British government has capitulated to multi-culturalism and has accepted that Islamification of the state is inevitable. Hopefully this grotesque building will not be given the go ahead. The precedent for council refusal has already been established when they disallowed a Christian centre to be built also in Wembley.

On a more positive note, to cheer Richard Lionheart somewhat, is that a women is to lead prayers in a mosque in Oxford. This is a revolutionary happening and could herald a change in Muslim women's rights to pray and to lead prayers in a mosque. There was some resistance from the men. The woman said that the reason why men and women were separated for prayer in the mosque is that when they bang their forehead on the floor it raises their nether regions which could give rise to sexual desire in a man positioned behind them thus spoiling the benefits of his prayer. Still someway to go on that issue then!

Lionheart

Thanks I will look the book up.

Can I return the complement by suggesting you look up the Libertarian Alliance on www.libertarian.co.uk they seem to be a genuinely independent group that monitor ALL aspects of civil liberties. Unlike that loathsome bunch of lefties, Liberty that the BBC wheel out every other day.

They have a paper on what they uncompromisingly call the government persecution of the BNP. In June they highlighted the Guardian stool pigeon (sorry investigative reporter) who joined the BNP staff with the sole purpose of getting the names of any middle class members so they could publish them. That is why the BNP is amateurish. The government and its media allies plus the lottery subsidised Searchlight creeps see to it that any BNP member above blue-collar working class is ruined. The most notable victim on this occasion was a prima ballerina with the ENB who has had to leave the profession.

Re hating muslims no sane person hates people. When I was seriously ill it was a muslim woman specialist who came into the hospital 11.30pm Saturday night dressed straight from a dinner party to check me out. She had rightly wanted to transfer me to a specialist unit but because it was weekend her white English colleagues in the unit - to put it bluntly - could not be arsed. But gratitude to an individual does not mean letting muslims drive harmless people from “their” areas or plunder the benefit system all of which and more I have seen at first hand.

Lionheart

Thanks I will look the book up.

Can I return the compliment by suggesting you look up the Libertarian Alliance on www.libertarian.co.uk they seem to be a genuinely independent group that monitor ALL aspects of civil liberties. Unlike that loathsome bunch of lefties, Liberty that the BBC wheel out every other day.

They have a paper on what they uncompromisingly call the government persecution of the BNP. In June they highlighted the Guardian stool pigeon (sorry investigative reporter) who joined the BNP staff with the sole purpose of getting the names of any middle class members so they could publish them. That is why the BNP is amateurish. The government and its media allies plus the lottery subsidised Searchlight creeps see to it that any BNP member above blue-collar working class is ruined. The most notable victim on this occasion was a prima ballerina with the ENB who has had to leave the profession.

Re hating muslims no sane person hates people. When I was seriously ill it was a muslim woman specialist who came into the hospital 11.30pm Saturday night dressed straight from a dinner party to check me out. She had rightly wanted to transfer me to a specialist unit but because it was weekend her white English colleagues in the unit - to put it bluntly - could not be arsed. But gratitude to an individual does not mean letting muslims drive harmless people from “their” areas or plunder the benefit system all of which and more I have seen at first hand.

Tommo,

I will admit that I am on the front line(in the South) when it comes to Islamism. There's no doubt about it that London has the highest percentage per demographic of Muslims in the UK.
There are many untouched areas of the UK where Islam has not yet come, but that will change. As the cities become more populated, then more and more people will leave, with wealth, to move into the quiet suburbs of England, with them more will come to set up their communities within and then the whole process, as what has happened in the cities will start again.

The Super Mosque is still undecided. Initially it was refused but they are continuing to demand it, no doubt lobbying Parliament, not forgetting those in the Muslim Brotherhood and the Muslim Association of Britain using their connections in Saudi Arabia, who have the UK Government in their pocket.
The British Government, like the fools they are will agree with the building as they will no doubt state that "the building of the Mega Mosque will help build bridges between the Muslim and Non Muslim communities in London". That in itself is a lie for the reason that the very area it's to be built in is predominately Muslim as all Non Muslims have moved, or are rapidly moving, out of the area.

The situation with Islam is like any other situation in the UK. For example, Stephen Lawrence's parents would never have started a campaign against knife violence, had their son not been murdered. This also goes for all the other parents in London who have lost their children in the same way. The saying goes "A liberal is a conservative who hasn't been mugged".

People in the UK do not act unless it directly affects them. In other words, the UK has changed from a selfless society into a selfish one.
The attitude of "It don't bother me, so why should I bother about it" is the state of play unfortunately.
Can you blame the British public when they are being fed bullsh*t constantly from the Media and the government regarding the true situation of Islam in the UK? There are posters all over London stating that 'Islam is the religion of Peace' yet nowhere does it mention the brutal life and dictatorship of Muhammad. It mentions nothing of Islamic regimes around the World, murdering their people, for adultery, rape victims, homosexuals, apostates etc etc.
The picture of Islam is one of peace and always has been. From when the riots in Bradford happened the Police realised they were outnumbered and could do nothing. Now the Muslim population is twice that size and maybe more. Therefore, it is best to 'feed the crocodile,lest it not turn around and eat you'.

Last but not least, you may think it is good news that women are allowed to lead prayer...and? It still doesn't detract from the fact that they follow and have been indoctrinated to further indoctrinate the Arabian Death Cult does it? From watching Despatches, we can see the Muslim women preaching their hatred of the kuffar to their students. A woman is allowed to lead prayer, great! It just means that more and more western women may now decide to join the ranks of Islam.
You can't disguise what Islam is and it's really that simple.

Fred,

I have checked out the Libertarian Alliance thank you Fred and I agree, they have interesting articles on there.
Regarding the BNP, I have watched in disgust as they have been victimised and their members hounded out of their jobs, that in itself is a breach of human rights. The BNP is a legitimate party and anyone who removes a person from a job because of their political affiliation is showing nothing less than great prejudice.
I dislike the BNP for the way they have treated me in constant email as well as phone discussion. They are a party that 'DO NOT WANT TO CHANGE'. They have their people they want to support them - W.A.S.P.s and no one else. How do I know, I've spoken to them on the issue many times, stating quite simply that if they DO NOT change their attitudes then their support base will grow old and die, especially when the Education system and Media are controlled by the Left Wing, their greatest enemy. Their response to not changing is because they say they will become like any other party. I have answered that they would not as no other party is stating what they are on the running of the UK. I have also told them that their policy towards Blacks, Asians, Jews and 'skilled immigrants' is what is stopping the majority of whites in the UK from voting for them. They are in fact cutting off their nose to spite their face as well as shooting themselves in the foot on this issue.
I have spoken to black friends, Black British friends who agree with most of what the BNP states, but then all to often it's followed by "...but then it would be like me voting for the KKK in the USA, nothing more than sheer madness".

There are Muslims I have come across who are nice and friendly and yes this is where I have my own inner conflicts with myself. However, I do not forget what Islam is, from its roots and the violence being done in its name all over the world that Muslims in the UK are either condoning or not speaking up against it.

Richard the Lionheart, speaking as a slightly off-white Yank, I agree with you. Western Christian civilization is too good a thing to have its wholehearted defense left to a bunch of racist Yobs. Besides, didn't a past BNP leader go Muslim because he admired its hatred of the JOOOOZ?

Kepha,

I can't really say I know if a former BNP leader went Muslim. Maybe some of the others may know.
Don't get me wrong, their policies are sound and are in fact not Racist in the slightest, even though many do say they are, but my problem with the BNP is their National Front element and also the fact that when I've been at protests where there is a strong right wing element, the BNP supporters whom I get talking with, by their very language show where they stand with people off white. I try to explain to them that there are many people, not white, who are just as British as them, if not more. They don't ever seem to realise this.
I'm not saying all members are racist as they are increasing their fan base to people disgruntled with NuLabour and the Conservatives, but they do have a lot who are. I therefore can't get with their programme.

The other dilemma we have are with the other parties that have the same policies that the BNP have but yet not the Racist Element. These parties unfortunately take an even smaller portion of the vote than the BNP and are in the minority of Fringe Parties if comparing them to the BNP as the Majority Fringe ones. As you know the cost of running a political party is high. Getting leaflets with their manifestos costs money to print them and then there's the postage.

The EDP look good as do Veritas. The UKIP are a dying duck in the Water and made up of old X Conservatives with one foot in the Grave and do not speak to the younger generation.

The Left Wing are winning and it really wouldn't surprise me if they get in again for a third term quite frankly. They control the Universities, the schools and of course the Media. Look at the Arts World and all you'll see are Champagne Socialists, with their millions all supporting the Labour Party. Think about the U2's, the Harry Enfields and Paul Whitehouses. Think about JK Rowlings, the Sir Ian McLellans, the Vanessa Redgraves of the UK arts world and yup, they're all Labour supporters. Everything that really controls our society is controlled by the Left. It's truly depressing. Look at our Police Force - Left Wing, the Armed Forces are now becoming left Wing(leadership). I could go on and on.

Fred
as regards the general behaviour of Mohammedan colonies in the non-Muslim world - I don't know whether you've read the interesting account by retired Aussie policeman, Tim Priest. It has been linked from jihadwatch many times, but is well worth revisiting.

Just in case you haven't read it - and for the benefit of new visitors to this site, especially any who may be serving today as policemen anywhere in the West, or have connections among the Boys In Blue, here it is again:

http://quadrant.org.au/php/article_view.php?article_id=581

It came out in a conservative magazine in 2004, and it's called 'The Rise of Middle Eastern Crime in Australia'. Strictly speaking, it should be called 'The Rise of Muslim Crime in Australia', because that is what it in fact describes. (The author himself does not completely comprehend what he has observed and recorded - he has not quite grasped that the problem is not about people being 'middle eastern' or 'lebanese' [after all, Aussie Jews and the Christian Lebanese who've been here since the late 19th century, have not caused any particular difficulty] but about...Islam).

If while reading it you mentally translate the terms 'Middle Eastern' and 'Lebanese' into 'Muslim', it's a terrifyingly accurate picture of a process that would, I think, ring bells with, for example, any plain old non-Muslim beat policeman in the UK, France, Germany or Scandinavia who had had to deal with crime on the ground over the past 30 years.

Sorry - I just checked the link, and it seems to have broken. It worked fine last time I used it.

I'll try looking for it again.

Here's a different link to the Tim Priest article.

http://www.australian-news.com.au/Tim_Priest.htm

You should be able to read the whole article and also download a printable version.

And - Richard -

I can't recall, off the top of my head, how long you've been posting here, and of course, you may have been lurking here for much longer. In which case, you may have seen *this*

http://www.ejectejecteject.com/archives/000157.html

before.

But if you haven't, I think you may find it encouraging. Open it up, and scroll down - it's all very interesting, but I think what may connect with you, and give you a little encouragement, is the discussion of the concept of 'The Remnant'.

Because it strikes me that people like you, and like 'Fred', and like Robert Spencer, and like Geert Wilders, and like the lady, Pilar Rahola, whom Hugh draws attention to in one of the latest threads about Spain...*you* are 'the Remnant'.

dumbledoresarmy,

I haven't seen that piece on the Remnant before but thank you for drawing my attention towards it.
It makes sense. In fact it makes a lot of sense. It's actually frighteningly true and hence why I take the stance I take.
In previous posts, especially to jdamn, I have stated that the Islamisation is inevitable for for the simple reason that we are 'tolerant' people, or should I say, western civilisation is tolerant and always ready to help. We are after all the countries in the World, continually giving out of our own pockets to help those, not only in our own societies but worldwide, with much much less than ourselves.
It is because we will not introduce draconian measures to protect our society from Islamisation that will be our coup de grace.
You may no doubt know that here in the UK we are pretty much under it from our Government when it comes to the destruction of our liberties. They are removing them every day without care, by implementing yet more controlling measures over us.

I have always spoken what I feel and I have never wavered, regardless of opposition. I have had very controversial discussions with many peoples that others wouldn't dream of for fear of attack and/or persecution.
One thing my father told me when I was younger was that the 'public is an animal without a head'. I learned to realise that this was so true as I grew older and hence why the words from your link on the Remnant made perfect sense.
I have no doubt in my mind that it will kick off. I have no doubt that it will be a long and bloody war. However I do know that all things come to an end that's for sure. Maybe I'll be here when it does, maybe not, but one thing's for sure, I cannot stop being who I am or believing in what I believe, for if I did, I would not be me and there really would be no point in living if that were the case.

My first reaction to the news of the "breakthrough" about the woman to lead prayers in an Oxford mosque is taqqiya! The second is disinformation and distraction, anything to get those few who are awake off the scent.

But it is really immaterial. The situation is grave. The government have no wish to stop the Islamisation of the UK, because they are busy milking it for all it is worth. If only they had been able to get this much benefit out of the Irish "Troubles" then we would already have several years experience of living under a full Police State. That is where HM Government are heading, and for the present they are treating the Muslims as their "useful idiots" in getting them there. Whenever the Muslims have gone quiet, government will fan the flames. They need the (rest of the) population to be constantly in a state of fear, so that they can (willingly) give up yet more of their civil liberties. I really don't want to be around when the Muslims discover that they have been used by a government with an even bigger vision of one world governance than the Muslims aspire to! That will be bloody.

But then, as we live in the end times, what else should we expect. Praise the Lord that, for the sake of His elect, He will cut these times short.

Jeff,

I couldn't agree more. I also wonder as well, just how much Sharia Finance and Saudi Money will be coming into the UK to bolster the recession? I really wouldn't be surprised if the they haven't already brokered some deal(no doubt Mandy will be involved) with the government to help in the financial crisis and that deal will no doubt have something to do with the building of the Tablighi Jamaat mega mosque in East London for the the 2012 Olympics.

dumbledoresarmy

Thanks for the links, the Tim Priest one is frightening. Could not say how bad things are in the UK but I can say from personal experience the police are terrified of minorities in general and “Asians” in particular. Multi-cultural doctrine does not allow these things to be reported but 3 years ago it was briefly reported in the Sunday Times that two Turkish gangs had a shoot out the street in London.