Jihad Watch readers Rob and Hans wrote in to tell me that this video was banned on YouTube. Of course, at YouTube you can still find the viciously antisemitic "Robert Spencer -- Jew Undercover" video about which I first wrote a year and a half ago -- that one is apparently just fine with the YouTube top dogs. But Pat Condell asking people to resist the implementation of Sharia in Britain? No way!
However, I found this morning that the video has been put back up on YouTube, and so have linked to it above. I have to run out now to a meeting of my "satanic cabal," and when back will find the video elsewhere if YouTube has played the dhimmi and taken it down yet again.
Incidentally, five years ago I started Jihad Watch and Dhimmi Watch in order to chronicle, respectively, violent jihad attacks and the cowardice of Westerners in the face of Islamic supremacist intimidation. But with the jihad against free speech and the large-scale shift to this and other stealth jihad efforts, the distinction between the sites is increasingly blurring. I may fold them together soon, if I can work out all the technical issues of doing so.
Meanwhile, here is Pat's anti-Sharia petition.
As usual, Pat kicks ass.
Meanwhile, the news has been so depressing lately; the economic meltdown is creating a perfect storm for Obama to ascend into the White House.
Fuck!.....
I urge all Youtube-users to upload this video to their account, to show Youtube how we feel about censorship. How can you help? Download the original file,
http://rapidshare.com/files/150089804... and reupload it to your Youtube account. Show Youtube that we value our freedom of speech. Feel free to spread the download link to all freedomloving souls.
I've just been reading all the hate mail on Pat's site. Truly deranged and very scary. It's like witnessing the disintegration of consciousness into a condition of pure hatred and violence with a total absence of reason and self understanding. A blind rage that really defines evil itself.
I could only watch half Condell's video, it kept shutting off in the middle.
It's this computer...Allah has been attacking it again.
I still want to know, who will carry out any sharia punishments under a Islamic/British law hybrid.
Will the British authorities stand by while someone gets 100 'public' lashes for some offense, or will 'they' administer the punishment as part of their unholy alliance with sharia?
It will start out as a family and business court and end up the supreme court, Allah willing...and he always is, until some filthy kufr throws a dar al-harb monkey wrench into Islams gears.
Get your monkey wrenches ready, you will probably need them...
As far as combining JW/DW...The lines are blurred.
There is probably a savings in money, time and effort by combining.
Dhimmi articles on JW could just be labeled as such.
There may be some technical difficulties, but they can be worked out...
wow, somebody over in Britainistan ought to convince Pat Condell to run for office.
Robert Spencer ought to run for office too.
Robert Spencer for President 2012!
I'll bring snickerdoodles! Who knew the Necronomicon had such a great recipe?
* This is the correct petition link! *
http://petitions.number10.gov.uk/sharialawuk/
I vote JW and DW remain separate. My 2 cents worth.
If Pat won't run for office, someone should give him his own television or radio show. No call-ins, though, or we'd never get to hear Pat (only Islamic ranting).
This guy is, so far, my favorite atheist!
I recommend no one watch Pat Condell's video's because his is an indiscriminate bigot, and says nothing about Islam that he doesn't also say about Christianity. Since he is so undiscerning, his opinions fall to the level of Rosie O'Donnell. If any Christian is a fan of his, then he really should watch Condell at his best:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6BaGHKe5oi0
Just a heads up as to how youtube works: If you put up a video that someone finds offensive and they complain about it then the video is automatically taken down pending a youtube review of the video's content.
So more then likely some advocate of Sharia thought he could upset Pat's designs and then, thankfully someone at youtube decided for freedom of speech. Youtube should be commended for recognizing the complaint for the ploy that it was.
Hey People - e-mail the mayor of London (one Boris Johnson) and ask: "How's Londonistan? How's Saudi Britain?" That's what I did, anyway.
mayor@london.gov.uk
I'm also voting, if there is a vote, that JW and DW remain separate.
Robert Spencer for President 2012!
Posted by: theygottago at October 2, 2008 8:44 AM
Uh, excuse me for interjecting reality, but there's a reason RS lives in a "secure and undisclosed location." It's called: Islam and it's deranged Followers.
You think RS could publicly go on the stump? No Way.
"I recommend no one watch Pat Condell's video's because his is an indiscriminate bigot, and says nothing about Islam that he doesn't also say about Christianity" --posted above
I don't believe that's true. Yes, he's an atheist, but in no way does he attack Christianity as he does Islam.
I don't care what Condell, an atheist, says about religion in general or specifically.
What he says about Islam is right on, and he says it well.
To discount him altogether is throwing the baby out with the bath water.
Concerned Citizen:
In the video you linked to, he seems to be specifically going after ignorant bible thumpers, not Christians in general. I don't like Christian fundies either.
The petition was started by one D. Brown.
Hats off to him/her
Getting so many signatures in such a short space of time is no mean achievement.
Thanks to anti-islamist bloggers and sitemasters for promoting it.
I recommend that everyone watch Pat Condell's videos because he IS indiscriminate.
In my opinion, Pat doesn't care if anyone wants to believe in any god they choose, as long as they don't try to shove it down anyone else's throat.
He really, really "gets" islam though, and all the problems it is causing in the UK and worldwide. I think he's great.
"Jesus Christ" Supercop, Darcy, duh_swami,
Surely you did not listen to the whole thing.
Christians are idiots, morons, insane, dinosaurs, and don't know anything
Christians have no right to have their beliefs respected or taken seriously
Christians inhibit atheists from pursuing their liberties and livelihood
Scripture gives license to show the very worst of ourselves, is the first refuge of the ignoramus.
"Whatever nasty, shitty little attitude that you harbor towards your fellow man will find justification in scripture".
"Each [word of scripture] a soldier for you and your petty prejudices."
"a grubby forum for chauvanism and ignorance".
"latest manifestation of Christi-insanity"
and the "coup de grâce" comparison:
"...as with those hard-line Saudi clerics for example who take sadistic pleasure interpreting the Qur'an as cruelly as possible, they merely reveal themselves for the bloodthirty monsters that they are and advertise to the world the darkness in their petty little souls and their pitiful inadequacy as men."
The rant is too extensive and too inclusive to be addressed only to "bible thumpers". He is colorfully and categorically reviling the entire faith, ALL faith, with the same passion he directs at jihadist, and clearly unable to differentiate between the two.
Mr. Condell is neither the "baby" nor the "bathwater", he is the floater that we find amusing until we grow up and learn the floater's true composition. He is an obnoxious entertainer, an opportunistic bandwidth whore. Condell does not represent the spirit of this site. Here at JihadWatch we have men, women, gays, Buddhists, Hindus, Protestants, Catholics, moderate Muslims, and yes, even atheists, and except for an occasional kerfuffle, we all manage to get along. We don't need his divisiveness here. Linking to and featuring his clips (sorry for my own link, actually) merely exacerbates his self-puffery, which will "float" him to new extremes.
Imnodhimmi,
Well, maybe you haven't had opportunity to enjoy his site "Godless Comedy", because he actually does care, in fact, he despises and derides anyone of any faith. He clearly states he doesn't care if he offends anyone. What kind of person says that? What kind of "reference" is he? Should I tell my pastor, "hey, listen to Pat Condell, he can really gets Islam"? He doesn't "get" Islam, anymore than he "gets" evangelism; it is just something else to lash out at, a means to get more attention and internet "hits".
Robert
Pat's video is still missing from his channel. You have posted another member's re-post of it.
That might not be up for too long. Classic Dhimmi Leftards - can't win the argument, so distort the media.
I'm bloody FUMING about this. I implore all Brits reading this to sign the petition.
Supercop,
I hate to take this off topic, but do you actually KNOW any "fundies"? I'm sure you would be surprised to find out that many of "us" are here on JW.
I have a friend who was railing against "right wing Christians" (we have a bunch of kids the same age and hadn't really ever talked politics) and she was quite taken aback that I'm one. In fact, she told me I'm one of the "most normal" people she knows. She'd taken all the stereotypes from the "left wing media" to heart and was shocked that "fundies" are people just like her. So next time try not to buy into the stereotypes pushed by people who don't actually know any "fundies".
The video was deleted by youtube, you can watch it from his website, this is what he wrote on his youtube profile
http://uk.youtube.com/user/patcondell?ob=1
---------------------------------------
I'VE JUST RECEIVED THE FOLLOWING MESSAGE FROM YOUTUBE:
The following video(s) from your account have been disabled for violating the YouTube Community Guidelines:
•Welcome to Saudi Britain - (patcondell)
Your account has received one Community Guidelines warning sanction, which will expire in six months. Additional violations may result in the temporary disabling of your ability to post content to YouTube and/or the termination of your account.
THE VIDEO HAD OVER 40,000 HITS IN THE 24 HOURS IT WAS UP, AND IT WAS THE TOP RATED VIDEO ON THE WHOLE OF YOUTUBE. YOU CAN STILL SEE IT AT MY WEBSITE:
http://www.patcondell.net
If you want to replace an embedded version on your own site you can find one at
http://godlesscomedy.blip.tv/
http://dotsub.com/view/user...
http://www.myspace.com/patc...
The petition against sharia law can be found at:
http://petitions.number10.g...
--------------------------------
Concerned Citizen, you're a hypocrite. You're fine with someone going after Islam, but as soon as someone dares to say something about Christianity you want the guy silenced because he's being so "offensive."
Unless Pat says somewhere that he wants to prevent people from practising freedom of speech, thought and religion (the latter within reasonable limits), then he can rail against Christianity as much as he wants to. The main thing is that he's against Islam.
There are suprisingly many Counter-Jihadists whose intellectual honesty is on par with Muslims. Maybe they just wanted to jump on a bandwagon.
eve_anne_gelical:
I hope you realize that this is exactly the sort of "reasoning" Islamic apologists use. It's a red herring. It makes no difference whether or not I personally know any Christian fundamentalists, just like it makes no difference whether or not I personally know any Muslims. Then she was simply mistaken about you, but it is a fact that obnoxious Christian fundamentalists exist. Are you trying to claim otherwise?
Concerned Citizen...Nearly everything you listed about Condell should be expected from a talkative atheist.
I suppose you are a Christian who is offended by his rhetoric...I don't mind if you don't want to watch his videos, that's your prerogative...but I think I will continue to watch his productions on a selective basis, in spite of your warnings...Thanks...
I don't care what he thinks of Christianity...I have heard all that stuff before, and there is nothing he can tell me about Islam that I don't already know. What I am supportive of is his telling people that don't know about Islam, about Islam...
I'm glad you're so sure of my beliefs and motivations. I don't care what Pat Condell is or does; he is his own personal responsibility. I would not personally recommend him to Christians (for obvious reasons), and I think he is too divisive a personality (for that is all he is) to be given endorsement by this site.
You truly have an inability to pay attention, or perhaps you reside in his choir. He feels Christians should not be allowed to teach their values to their children. Is there any one of your trio of freedoms listed not excluded there?
Yes, there are. Political parties in Europe we could name, and they would immediately be alternately defended and damned, right here, despite their "counter-jihad" positions. JW doesn't endorse them either. You like Condell, I think his work best is displayed elsewhere. I think we are both being "intellectually honest". I don't doubt your sincerity or devalue your contributions as a "counter-jihadist" just because you're an atheist. I am beginning to doubt your ability to discern, however. Perhaps I could recommend to you a book by Robert Spencer entitled, Religion of Peace? Why Christianity is, and Islam isn't. Really, if the above is actually your opinion of Counter-Jihadists ("many"), why are you on the bandwagon?
duh_swami,
I've known many atheists, as friends, a several of them were talkative. Never have I seen the degree of vindictive, malicious contempt for faith, any kind of faith, as Condell seethes with regularity. He is a walking time bomb as regards the endorsement this site is giving him.
Hugh Fitzgerald is an atheist. He has occasionally shown some relative contempt for people of faith. He could be described, journalistically, as "talkative". Never, ever, has he spewed anything as despicable and relentless as Condell. I'd take a bullet for him, and I bet most of the Christians on this site would say the same. I have nothing but pity for Condell. He is exactly what he rails against, with the same "sadistic pleasure" written all over his face.
We are in complete agreement here.
Pat can make fun of any religion he wants, even mine and I have always loved his videos. The difference between us and the Radical Muslims is that we can take criticism, ignore if we want to and move on, or we can engage in civilized debate.
The Muslims cry "Victim", blow themselves up and protest against anyone speaking against them or any form of criticism. They are no better than a bunch of 16 year old school girls with fragile egos, that if you tell them that they don't look good in that dress, they are devastated.
If he wants to make fun of the Hindus (as my friends poke fun at me and I at the Christianity, which is obviously their faith) I don't see any problem with that. If he wants to criticize some negative aspects about it that he feels he wants to then he can go right on ahead, and I can either choose to ignore him or engage him in a debate or discussion.
The difference with us and Islam is that we allow for this civilised debate to take place, while they try to silence, kill and blow up anything that is against them.
Pat is funny as hell, you tube had no right to ban him when there are real hate groups on you tube glorifying violence and hate (White Power and Islamic hate groups, especially the Pakistani ones....h many if you could understand what they are saying.).
My two cents.
Cheers,
Ayo Gorkhali
Pat Condell & Bill Maher must be buds, and I bet they share comedic notes with one another. Losers. Both of 'em.
Petition ? Great !
How exactly does a petition stop violence ? You can have it delivered by helicopter and dump it on agressive muslims ?
Just wondering.
InfidelK9, that link doesn't work. Do you have another? I would like to upload it for youtube as I want to make sure it keeps showing.
Then why did you write as though you had, defending him as though he hadn't made such statements.
Sure it does. His inability to discern, evidenced in the drama he projects about truly innocuous themes (evangelical "witnessing", horrors!) reveals his "passion" against Islam as mere theater.
Backpedaling? My whole point all along was I don't think JW should endorse him. That's it.
"My whole point all along was I don't think JW should endorse him" - Concerned Citizen
Why? What better way to show the viewers that Christians are open minded and forgiving than by supporting Pat in this issue. As you say, he isn't just against Islam but religion as a whole (although he does discern the difference in threat levels) and which side is guilty in this instance (again) of forced censure of an opinion.
Regards
"Why?"
For the exact same reason that JW does not endorse VB and BNP (I don't either). Should we prove our "open-mindedness" with them as well?
"although he does discern the difference in threat levels"
Could you give a quote to that effect? You'd never know it from the rhetoric in the link I gave above.
I just thought everyone might like to know that supporters of Pat Condell have just won a massive victory against the Islamists - YouTube has caved in and reinstated Pat's video!
Hundreds of people uploaded Pat's video to their own channels, a video petition added the pressure and YouTube finally grew some balls. :-)
Concerned Citizen:
I didn't. I said "unless." Disliking Christian fundies is not mutually exclusive with disliking Muslim fundies and vice versa. You also ranted at length about how he's offending your delicate sensibilities.
Mostly I quoted or paraphrased his poisonous, pointless, artless diatribe. What would it take, other than violating your trio of freedoms above, sir, to convince you that Mr. Condell's religious bigotry is no different than ethnic nationalism bigotry rejected by this site, and unworthy of endorsement by JW? How far does he need to go to embarrass even an adoring atheist compatriot such as yourself? Surely he'll get there on the tragetory he's following.
Concerned Citizen -
I completely agree with all those statement you gave further above about Christians:
"Christians are idiots, morons, insane, dinosaurs, and don't know anything"
Any person who believes such nonsense (theistic religion) has simply put reality on hold and taken a trip along make believe avenue. If you think differently then offer some proof for this ‘reality’ of yours.
"Christians have no right to have their beliefs respected or taken seriously"
Christians have no right to demand their beliefs are respected or taken seriously by those that demand evidence for such sweeping statements like “God did it”. This is not that same as saying you do not have the right to have that belief, which you do.
"Christians inhibit atheists from pursuing their liberties and livelihood"
Unfortunately this is true, especially in some schools in the southern sections of America.
"Scripture gives license to show the very worst of ourselves, is the first refuge of the ignoramus."
This is true also, due to need to suspend reality in order to continue believing in make believe.
"Whatever nasty, shitty little attitude that you harbor towards your fellow man will find justification in scripture."
Again we have seen and continue to see religious elements using scripture to spew their bigoted views on other members of the human race. You may not agree with their interpretation but they are still justifying it using scripture.
"Each [word of scripture] a soldier for you and your petty prejudices."
As above.
"a grubby forum for chauvanism and ignorance".
Why learn the facts of the world you live in when you can shut out all outside influences and rely on an errant book which required some nimble moral editing to be even slightly relevant to today’s society.
"latest manifestation of Christi-insanity"
If you talk to god you are normal, if god talks to you then you are insane. Again you need to suspend reality inside you mind to believe this nonsense; this is a common trait of all people who are suffering from some form of delusional madness I would presume.
"...as with those hard-line Saudi clerics for example who take sadistic pleasure interpreting the Qur'an as cruelly as possible, they merely reveal themselves for the bloodthirty monsters that they are and advertise to the world the darkness in their petty little souls and their pitiful inadequacy as men."
Yes, we hear from Christians all the time about how they would like nothing more than the rapture here and now. Death to everyone but the believers! Or how about telling children that they will go to hell if they do not do as god tells them to?
There is nothing out of the ordinary about anything Pat says in his videos. If you disagree with something he has said all you need to do to shut every Atheist up is prove to us all that you are not a “deluded ignoramus” by showing us that your chosen god really does exist anywhere other than your chosen holy book. I won't be holding my breath.
So back to the point; that you disagree with some of the points made by Pat does not make him the equal of the BNP or mean he should be subject to religious censure. That RS has decided to give support to Pat in his fight against Islam (watch his videos and you will see a distinction between religions) show greatly the distinction between the majority of Christians and Islam.
Regards
Concerned Citizen:
What would it take, other than violating your trio of freedoms above, sir, to convince you that Mr. Condell's religious bigotry is no different than ethnic nationalism bigotry rejected by this site, and unworthy of endorsement by JW?
"Bigotry."
There's that magic word. You're acting exactly like an Islamic apologist. Also, JW isn't "endorsing" him, but pointing out that he was being censored for criticizing Islam. Do you think he should be censored because of what he says about Christians?
Supercop,
Absolutely not. Do I feel it needs to be reprinted everywhere to not constitute censorship: no. I applaud Robert Spencer for combatting his YouTube censorship (if in fact that was what it was, or was the usual up-for-review automated response to a complaint). Condell is, however, on these pages quite more frequently than just this occasion. BTW, you completely dodged my question, and your "bigotry..Islamic apologist" sidestep was nonsensical and unproductive. Again, what line is Condell going to have to cross for you to see him as a problem? I already pointed out one above, and you retracted it. What's it going to be? Antisemitism? Or when he becomes dissatisfied with the two dimensional attention he's getting and moves into the political arena and introduces anti-proselytization legislation?
Xeno,
You may be surprised to know there is nothing you wrote above that offended me. That is, yours was not a maniacal rant, and I presume you have other talents. I do not see the distinctions between Condell's anti-Islam and anti-Christian rants that you do. It was this observation that lead me not to call not for his censure (he has his own site), but for what I would hope would be an unspoken, neglectful disavowal by this otherwise pluralistic site. If you could give me a) three cogent, alliterated bullet points (remember, I'm a small minded church-goer) demonstrating how Condell differentiates his criticisms of Islam (malignant) from his criticisms other religions (benign),
b) why his affliction is different from that of other unsavory associations explicitly not endorsed by this site,
c) a few clarion examples of vociferous Christian personalities, whose specialty is high octane rants about atheists as though they were a major threat to the extinction of the human race, whose anti-Islam diatribes are featured frequently and prominently on this site,
d) why I should not be concerned about keeping the JW bumper sticker on my vehicle in the church parking lot full of thousands of cars of small-minded Christians,
then I could keep these points with me at all times to remind other religous imbeciles like myself why we should prize Condell's discourses being included in these threads and be unconcerned about what embarassing cliff he is going to go off.
To Both,
I'm a Christian and I don't dislike you or assume you are insane or unintelligent because you are not. This is not the place to proselytize or denigrate each other. Frankly, we need each other here and in the fights ahead.
Concerned Citizen:
your "bigotry..Islamic apologist" sidestep was nonsensical and unproductive.
No, it wasn't. You have the mentality of an Islamic apologist.
Are you going to answer the question, or just continue to hurl puerilisms because I won't cede to your supreme will?
bigot: a person who is utterly intolerant of any differing creed, belief, or opinion.
Condell is a bigot, and so are you. You say I am. Let's assume for sake of discussion we all are. I don't care if Condell is a bigot somewhere else. I just don't think he should be here, and I've asked you to define where you think the line is between someone like Condell, promoted and tacitly endorsed and honored on this site, and the BNP (whom best I can tell, none of us endorse). If Condell has an anti-Jew rant or starts promoting anti-proselytization legislation, or removing children from faith-adherent families, will that be enough for you?
Concerned Citizen:
Are you going to answer the question, or just continue to hurl puerilisms because I won't cede to your supreme will?
I don't care about the question.
Condell is a bigot, and so are you.
And my point is proven once more.
You have no point. You are a child.
A celebrity carries with them a reputation and those openly "celebrating" them become yoked to their mantle. It is no different here because this is a website. JihadWatch should not feature Mr. Condell any more than it should feature Rosie O'Donnell should she offer an anti-Islamist rant. The value of his (and her) opinions are diminished by the bulk of his work, and he carries to this site the history of too many negative adventures which detract from JihadWatch's overall message.
Anyone pretending that Christian evangelism in any way approaches the scale of the danger of Islamic supremacism, lives in a twisted parallel universe, and is promoting incorrect "popular misconceptions" and potentially alienating, rather than alerting, "people of good will" who compose the large proportion of the world's population that isn't causing any real problem.
Concerned Citizen:
You have no point.
My point, in case you missed it, is that you are fundamentally the same as an Islamic apologist.
You are a child.
If you are ignorant enough to think that a person of 24 years of age is a child then you should steer clear of complicated subjects like Islam.
Your "point" is devoid of anything but childish ad hominem taunts. You weren't able to defend Condell (your hero), so you took to attacking me (and eve_anne_gelical). But seeing that you've only recently finished myelinating your brain, you've got plenty of time left to learn to use it.
If you would like this to be productive, you could answer my question. But, of course, you're afraid, because you haven't listened to all of Condell's rants with objectivity and an ear towards civility, and are concerned you will betray him by responding.
BTW, the YouTube link is down again. The following link works:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ox2-Wun2dIg
The guy who "gets" Islam:
"Hi everybody. I've been asked by a few people why I criticize Muslims and Christians, but not the Jews. Well this possibly because of the three dogmas in the children of Abraham, Muslims, Jews and Christians, I like the Jews the best. When I say I like them, I think all three religions are an insult to humanity,...On the other hand, I have heard a rumor that Israel is secretly controlled by Jews, and I'm not sure I like the sound of that. I'm talking about proper Jews, not the ordinary everyday man in the street sort of Jew, but the ultra-orthodox hard core boys who still attack people for whistling or gathering sticks upon the Sabbath. You know, the guys that would rather they were still living 4000 years ago apart from a brief excursion into 18th century Russia for some clothes. ... Meanwhile, the political situation in Israel, is like a knotted rope. The harder they try to pull it apart, the tighter it gets. And this is because elements on both sides remain vigilant against any possible outbreak of peace. Islamists on the one hand, settlement building Jews on the other. In other words, the people motivated most strongly by their religious beliefs...the problem is, [Israel is] in the wrong place because if there was any justice in this world, Israel would currently occupy half of Germany. But Israel is not really about justice, is it? It's really about Jerusalem, which is really about scripture and prophecy which, as we know, is really about insanity....I think the Jews would do themselves a huge favor if they came to their senses and let go of Jerusalem. It doesn't belong to them, and they are only holding on to it because of religion which is the worst reason to do anything. But, Jerusalem is not a Jewish town, it's an Arab town... and its time we all started to acknowledge that and and live in reality.... So, please, Jews, do us all a favor and give it back and help put a stop to this madness. The whole world will thank you for it. And you know what? You'll probably end up the most popular people on the planet, and wouldn't that be a turn up for the books? Shalom. You know it makes sense."
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Vaw658Bow8
Concerned Citizen:
Your "point" is devoid of anything but childish ad hominem taunts.
Ad hominem doesn't mean what you think it means.
You weren't able to defend Condell (your hero), so you took to attacking me (and eve_anne_gelical).
I never said he's my "hero," and I'm not really trying to defend him either. As for eve_anne_gelical, I never "attacked" her. Don't make things up.
But seeing that you've only recently finished myelinating your brain, you've got plenty of time left to learn to use it.
I thought childish ad hominem taunts were wrong.
If you would like this to be productive, you could answer my question. But, of course, you're afraid, because you haven't listened to all of Condell's rants with objectivity and an ear towards civility, and are concerned you will betray him by responding.
I'm not sure why you think I care that much about Condell.
ad hominem [(ad hom-uh-nem, ad hom-uh-nuhm)]
A Latin expression meaning “to the man.” An ad hominem argument is one that relies on personal attacks rather than reason or substance.
"You have the mentality of an Islamic apologist."
"Concerned Citizen, you're a hypocrite. You're fine with someone going after Islam, but as soon as someone dares to say something about Christianity you want the guy silenced because he's being so 'offensive.'"
I don't want Condell silenced, and I've "silently" endured quite a number of "things said about Christianity" on this site by the commentors and one of the principles. I just don't think this site should be so quick to endorse divisive figures when better are available. I think it fosters this kind of internecine bickering. Please refer to the updated link I provided above. I think YouTube is quite hypocritical, and I hope they get flooded with new uploads of Condell's video. My original impassioned hyperbole ("no one") was rather overstated. Feel free to call that a "back pedal". It is.
It makes a difference whether you are generalizing about the religion or its adherents. Asking if you have personal experience about that to which you speak is not introducing a "red herring".
Point scored for JCSC.
Concerned Citizen:
A Latin expression meaning “to the man.” An ad hominem argument is one that relies on personal attacks rather than reason or substance.
If you know what it means then why did you use it incorrectly?
It makes a difference whether you are generalizing about the religion or its adherents.
How is it a "generalization" to say that Christian fundamentalists exist and that I don't like them?
Asking if you have personal experience about that to which you speak is not introducing a "red herring".
Whether or not I personally know any Christian fundamentalists is completely irrelevant.
Name calling is generally regarded as an ad hominem. Refer to "Point scored" above. How would you refer to 99% of the attacks upon Mr. Spencer?
Then how do you know you don't like them, collectively (i.e. a "generalization"? By projecting from the 1% of them that are bigots and speak and write offensive things you've read?
If you say, Islam is okay because I know only good Muslims, that is a non sequitur.
If you say, Christian fundamentalists exist, therefore they are all unlikable, also a non sequitur.
Likewise, if you say Christianity is bad, because I know some Christian fundamentalists who wrote bad things, ditto.
Concerned Citizen:
Name calling is generally regarded as an ad hominem. Refer to "Point scored" above. How would you refer to 99% of the attacks upon Mr. Spencer?
Pointing out the fact that you have the mentality of an Islamic apologist is not an ad hominem.
Then how do you know you don't like them, collectively (i.e. a "generalization"?
Because I've encountered them and reached the conclusion that I don't like them. Duh.
By projecting from the 1% of them that are bigots and speak and write offensive things you've read?
A fundamentalist is by definition a "bigot," fanatic or moron. Or all of them.
If you say, Christian fundamentalists exist, therefore they are all unlikable, also a non sequitur.
Except I've never said this. I said they exist and they're unlikeable.
JCSC,
I propose we test your resolve on inclusivity, tolerance of contrarian views, free speech, yada, yada. I'm pretty sure it's just you and me at this point, so no one is ever going to read this besides we two.
I'm going to offer you a once in a lifetime deal, which no one else has received: I give you, an atheist, exclusive right to exclude me, a Christian (I thought about giving my doctrinal affinities and personal eschatology, but let's just keep it generic for the sake of social experimentation), from JihadWatch. Read my prior exchanges(43 pages, I didn't see anything older than November, 2003, but I thought it went back further) here to help you make your decision, or not, your choice, though if you do, I'd appreciate it if you could ignore some early on proselytizing of Naseem. Just type "Leave", and click post. This thread will expire on or before October 9.
I will respond with one word, "Received". You can post whatever you want afterwards, of course (separate post), but I won't return to this thread to read it.
One caveat, however, please don't think you are questioning my resolve as an anti-jihadist or going to get in some explanatory last gig. (I am absolutely committed to exposing Islam for all it is; this will, of course, restrict me from commenting at the world's best resource, JihadWatch.org and DhimmiWatch.)
Again, anything more than the one word, "Leave", and the deal is off.
There really is something wrong with you.
Yeah, I had a really, really, really rotten day, probably my worst. Thanks for noticing. I'd ask for your prayers, but, you're an atheist, and I wouldn't want to offend you.
Fascinating debate. I really love Pat and he will be my model in my forthcoming YouTube videos (in Spanish). Though I might try not to offend Christians in our unified fight against the islamization of the West, taking great offence for a thoroughgoing verbal attack in the net strikes me as similar to what the islamists do.
I won't really enter into the above debate. But keep in mind that in the distant past Christianity was as scary as Islam today. Has any of you taken a look at Karlheinz Deschner's monumental Criminal History of Christianity? Originally written in German, the Spanish translation has no less than 10 volumes of it (I've only read three).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karlheinz_Deschner
Just curious...