Way back when I was in college my friend Jeff proposed "Not as bad as you might think" as the state motto and license-plate slogan for one of the great states of this Union, and I was reminded of it last night as I spoke at the University of Wisconsin-Madison. Before the talk began I had a delightful dinner with the small and valiant College Republicans group that invited me there, and they told me about the abuse they put up with for representing a voice that dissents from the stifling Leftist campus orthodoxy. One member had a cup of urine poured on his head at a Michael Moore event; thugs and louts have tried to shout down speakers including David Horowitz and Daniel Pipes; and as for last night's event, the campus paper yesterday contained a sneering editorial entitled "Republican guest will distort Islam," by one James Sonneman, a "a senior majoring in political science and history," who affects cigarette-smoking cool in his column photo but has little actual knowledge behind the smoke.
With the smug assurance of the semi-educated, Sonneman asserted in his piece that I confuse "the term Islam with radical-Islamism," and that I claim that "moderate Muslims simply do not understand what their Holy Book means, even to themselves, so we should not draw a distinction between their religion and radical-Islamism." He goes on to say that "the claim is as preposterous as the conclusion," and it's true: to say such a thing would be preposterous, but what is actually preposterous is this young man's claim that this is my position. What Sonneman is mangling here is my pointing out the fact that all the schools of Islamic jurisprudence and all the sects of Islam that Muslims generally accept as orthodox teach that warfare against and subjugation of unbelievers is part of the religious duty of the Islamic community. That claim is open to objective verification or debunking, as is my further rather commonplace observation that significant numbers of Muslims are not on board with this agenda. This is not because they do not understand their religion, as Sonneman claims is my entire explanation for the fact, but because they have not been taught that this is an important religious obligation for them to fulfill, or because they are simply not that fervent, or any number of other reasons, including but not limited to the very real possibility that some who identify themselves as believers may not be well instructed in the tenets of their faith -- particularly because prayers and Qur'an recitation must be in 7th-century classical Arabic, and most Muslims today are not Arabs, and most Arabs themselves are not fluent in 7th-century classical Arabic.
Anyway, the point of all this, of course, is that I am a "racist" who is trying to stir up "fear," and many on campus got the message: outside the talk the MSA was distributing a pamphlet entitled "Who Is Robert Spencer? What He's Not Telling Us," which says it was "funded in part by the Associated Students of Madison," although the "ASM does not necessarily endorse the beliefs and actions of this organization." Not necessarily! It also has a section headed "A Special Thanks to All Our Friends," and there lists the Muslim Students Association, the Multicultural Student Coalition, the Lutheran Campus Center, the College Democrats, the Lubar Institute for the Study of the Abrahamic Religions, Americans for Informed Democracy, and MadPAC: Madison Israel Public Affairs Committee. ("MadPAC" sounds apt.)
Anyway, the pamphlet contains the Fatihah, the first sura of the Qur'an and the most common prayer in Islam, along with the ridiculous FAIR "Smearcasters" report on me that I discussed here. The welcoming atmosphere was reinforced by several students who came into the talk carrying large signs with the predictable slogans, "Stop the Hate," "Students Against Hatred," etc. I told the young woman carrying the latter sign that I was against hatred too, and thanked her for bringing it in.
Everyone was expecting disruptions. A campus policeman told me beforehand that they believed in the students' freedom of speech, and would not remove hecklers or people trying to shout me down. "So they have freedom of speech, but I don't?" I asked. "That's right," said the cop. Surprisingly enough, however, no one disrupted my talk. I thanked the crowd of about 300 for its courtesy; even the question period, although there were the usual hostile questions, was marked by little of the shouting and the self-righteous grandstanding that marred the event at Penn State.
The questions ran in the usual vein. Several students tried to give self-righteous and hectoring counter-lectures of their own, as is quite common when I speak at universities, but Sara Mikolajczak and the rest of the College Republicans had an excellent handle on the situation, and made sure that the students actually asked questions and kept it brief. Still, one fellow began by trotting out the tired canard that I had to know Arabic to be able to speak about the global jihad and Islamic supremacism. I know far more Arabic than he assumes, although I am not fluent, and in any case the issue itself is a red herring: I asked him why, if one has to know Arabic well in order to understand Islam, Muslim publishing houses turn out so many translations of the Qur'an, Hadith, and other material, and whether he was ready to declare that the Muslims worldwide who do not know Arabic (who constitute the majority now) do not understand Islam and are not capable of doing so. I also asked him whether or not Arabic was a human language like any other, capable of being translated, and why it was that all of the translations of Qur'an 4:34 into English render the verse as mandating the beating of a disobedient woman, with the exception of one non-traditional and highly apologetic translation? And was there some secret decoder ring that would reveal that when 4:34 says "beat her" in Arabic it actually means "give her a hug"? But the arrogant and self-righteous lout, who turns out to be (according to the Badger Herald) Rashid Dar, MSA public relations chair, would not deal with any of this, and instead tried to shout me down -- lest the crowd hear some inconvenient facts. (Oh, and speaking of the Badger Herald, I never used the silly term "Muslim extremisms," with which reporter Kevin Bargnes leads his article. But when it comes to college newspapers I have even less expectation of accuracy or journalistic integrity than I do from the mainstream media.)
Another questioner tried to read a self-righteous lecture about all the poor victimized American Muslims. He claimed that Muslims are increasingly facing persecution in the U.S., blaming this (spurious) increase on the nationwide distribution of Obsession and citing as an example the "hate crime" at a mosque in Dayton, Ohio -- an event that turned out to be a complete hoax. He tried to beard the monster in his lair, asking me about my real motives and warned me not to talk about peace and justice in my answer -- but I refused to oblige, telling him that that was what I was all about, peace and justice and human rights for all, and I wasn't going to be intimidated by his manipulative and contemptuous question or by the MSA allegation that to speak up in defense of the U.S. Constitution, freedom of speech, freedom of conscience, and equality of rights for all constituted "hate."
Then there was the inevitable question about why I wasn't concerned about wicked Christian fundamentalists scheming to take over the government. I explained the difference between working within the political process, which any group should have a right to do, and trying to eliminate and destroy Western civilization from within in order to establish the hegemony of one's religious law, which the Muslim Brotherhood and other groups are in their own words trying to do in the United States.
But mixed in with all the arrogant and self-righteous posturing were a few genuine questions, and one Muslim questioner (my hat is off to you, Ammar), while maintaining that he disagreed with me on many points, actually asked a serious question about my presentation of Islamic apostasy law, and we had a good discussion about it. Another asked me if I would come to an MSA event the following week. I will be at another college, but if the MSA in Madison wants to organize a debate or discussion including me, I will be happy to participate.
So all in all, it was...not as bad as you might think, which I hereby suggest as the new motto for the University of Wisconsin-Madison.
Robert --
Thank you for your continued reason in the face of madness.
It is good to hear that UW-Madison was at least civilized, as my daughter is applying there.
She's a level-headed kid and I worry a lot about the campus atmosphere at many of the institutions she has on her list. I've tried to prep her to be aware of indoctrination many of her professors are attempting. She enjoys a challenge and has stood up for her thoughts til this point -- hopefully that will carry through in the college years.
Of all the contemptuous characters in this mello-drama, the cop was the worst.
Mr Spencer - You are now being widely and systematically defamed by all manner of individuals and groups. It seems to me that this is getting worse and worse, to the point where someone who doesn't know you reasonably well might actually believe that you really are a hatemonger etc etc.
Do you think that a carefully chosen libel action might allow you to put your case in the calm setting of open court? With any luck the case might get a decent amount of coverage in the media (think of Mark Steyn)- and it's harder to spin court proceedings against you, especially if (as I would expect) the verdict goes in your favour.
Is it time to litigate?
Well, it is a baby step. But it is in the right direction.
Islam with radical-Islamism," and that I claim that "moderate Muslims simply do not understand what their Holy Book means...
That's what imams are for...to tell the uninformed all about the meanings of the Quran. An illiterate Mohammadan does not need to know Arabic, just listen to, and believe what the Imam tells them.
Of all the contemptuous characters in this mello-drama, the cop was the worst.
Posted by: Cornelius
That jerk should be fired for dereliction of duty.
And an attitude unbecoming of an officer.
Yea, what Swami and Cornelius said.
"...the very real possibility that some who identify themselves as believers may not be well instructed in the tenets of their faith..."
RS
Given that a great many Christians are not completely familiar with every Biblical passage, it is quite reasonable to assume that individual Muslims are indeed ignorant of at least some tenets of their 'complete way of life'.
While there are various reasons for that, such ignorance does not negate what Islam teaches.
Many Muslim apologists (and their useful idiots) claim that 'the actions of a few' should not indict the entire worldwide Muslim population.
They don't.
Their actions indict Islam.
The summaries you provide of these talks are as, or possibly even more valuable -- and certainly can more easily be distributed across the Net, and even read by the many thousands of students at the University of Wisconsin who were not in the audience of 300 last night -- than the talks themselves.
Of all the contemptuous characters in this mello-drama, the cop was the worst.
Posted by: Cornelius
This guy was just a bad egg. I remember attending Robert's talk last year at the University of Rhode Island and was proud of the South Kingston cop who told a Muslim who was hogging the mike that if he did not move, he would forcibly remove him from the area.
"This is not because they [moderate Muslims]do not understand their religion, as Sonneman claims is my entire explanation for the fact, but because they have not been taught that this is an important religious obligation for them to fulfill, or because they are simply not that fervent, or any number of other reasons, including but not limited to the very real possibility that some who identify themselves as believers may not be well instructed in the tenets of their faith"
or Taqiyya.
My son, who is a student in Univ. of Wisconsin-Madison, attended Robert's lecture yesterday. He was quite impressed with Robert's talk (no surprize there!) and by the composed manner in which Robert handled the obnoxious MSA goons.
I can't thank you enough, Robert, for all your hard work and tireless effort in trying to educate people about Jihad and Islam. I'm sure your efforts have helped a number of students to question the nonsense that they are constantly fed about Islam by their liberal teachers and mainstream media.
For anyone in the Bay Area, Daniel Pipes will be speaking at UC Berkeley's Boalt Hall tonight at 7pm, on "The Threat to Israel's Existence--Why It's Back, How to Deal with It." (my only slight dissenting point here is that the threat isn't really back--in that it's never gone away--just waxed and waned)
Considering how nasty the responce was to the soft-spoken Nonie Darwish at the first Islamo-Fascism Awareness Week, I just hope it isn't even worse for Mr. Pipes.
I'm going with a friend. By the way, for all those who are certain that anyone who is concerned about the Jihad threat is a "right-winger"--I don't mean most JW readers--my friend is a gay Jewish animal rights activist, whom I met while he was running a pet rescue and adoption group.
He eventually realized that the Left was entirely ignoring the Jihad threat (or worse, enabling it). He finally decided that issues such as gay marriage were a moot point if you were living under Shari'ah.
I'll give an account of the Pipes event tomorrow.
"...helped a number of students to question the nonsense that they are constantly fed about Islam by their liberal teachers and mainstream media."
And by Muslim students.
On the Arabic angle, the answer about the majority of Mohammedans not knowing Arabic was good - just the sub-continent and the East Indies would itself give half a billion non-Arabic speaking Mohammedans. However, here's another one for size - how many Christians know Latin, or Aramaic? Most Jews know Hebrew as a result of the creation of Israel and a conscious effort to resurrect the language, but before Israel, for several centuries, were Jews in Europe and America fluent in Hebrew, as opposed to English, German, Polish, Russian, et al? It's well known that most Hindus have no knowledge of Sanskrit, although there are a few places in central India that the language is making a comeback as the medium of instruction: however, that lack of knowledge of Sanskrit hasn't made most Hindus ignoramuses of their religion. Buddhist texts were written in Pali, whereas today, a majority of Buddhists are speakers of Sinhalese, Burmese, Thai, Vietnamese, Laotian and Cambodian. Hasn't been a problem for the Burmese, Thai and Sri Lankans, although Communism would have kept Vietnam, Cambodia, Tibet and Laos from being genuinely Buddhist.
Another question - do such apologists avoid tu quoque exercises comparing the Sunnah with violent verses in other scriptures? If they do, turn that argument around and ask whether they know Latin/Hebrew/Pali/et al.
Is it time to litigate?
Posted by: Nokingofmine
I agree with this suggestion whole heartedly. Way to go Robert! You have my eternal gratitude and admiration for standing up to Islamists and exposing their agenda. If you decide to proceed with a libel suit against any Islamist or organization, I would gladly chip in. My cheque book is ready and handy.
A comment from the Badger article.
{Anonymous (October 15, 2008 @ 2:05am):
Could not be more appropriate or correct.
This guy and David Horowitz should be on death row; bigotry on this big a scale should be grounds for capital punishment.
I especially enjoyed my own SO finally getting posted; check out (A)SO # 804!
Others should speak up and oppose this man coming to campus; specifically, the COLLEGE REPUBLICANS should make a stand if they want to improve their image at Madison.}
This is the attitude of liberals today. Do we have to wonder how fascism rises in a country?
Scary!!
Infidel Pride,
http://www.challenging-islam.org/articles/warraq-debate-muslims.htm
Ibn Warraq on How to Debate a Muslim
This "iReport" entry made the front page of cnn.com under the "Latest News" heading, entitled "iReport.com: Speaker ignites stir on campus"
http://www.ireport.com/docs/DOC-116358
The "reporter" tried hard to be objective, until the facade came crashing down at the very end.
Muslim Penchant for spinning state-sponsored conspiracies: Will it turn into a self-fulfilling prophecy?
But do we ever come across a word of gratitude, even gratitude expressed to God, for what “in practice already had become a Brahmin-dominated state” to have not gone the Pakistan way or the Islamic way?
Do we ever wonder what would be our situation if we were living as a religious minority in an Islamic state? Do we ever move our lips or lift our little finger in support of the religious minorities living in Islamic states next door? Well, what to support them, we have hounded out the one Muslim lady who dared to speak for them in Bangladesh? There are so many Hindus and even Hindu ladies who fight for our causes in this country: would we like the Indian system to hound them out of the country and of course, not get any refuge anywhere else, certainly not in a Muslim country? …
We have tens of thousands of mosques and madrasas running throughout the length and breadth of this country, but one of our mosques, a dilapidated and disused one, was demolished by people who were characterised by the Supreme Court as miscreants, and we blew that into an issue of our religious freedom in the country. We have still not solved that problem and allowed it to fester, to our nation’s detriment. Do our intellectuals take time off fighting the system and tell us it is not in our interest to allow a cancer to grow. The mosque is gone. We apparently don’t worship bricks and soil. Bricks too are gone in any case. Why can’t we initiate an amicable solution, as it would be in our own interest too? We need a plot of land to pray, we can pray anywhere in the area. Why do we need to blow it out of all proportion, make it such a big issue, when the country – the system - is allowing us to have as many mosques and madrasas as we wish?
An analysis by Sultan Shahin, editor, NewAgeIslam.com
9 Comments More.
http://www.newageislam.com/ArticleDetail.aspx?ArticleID=877
War-weary Saddam victims miss his iron rule
War-weary Saddam victims miss his iron rule
DUJAIL: Saddam Hussein was hanged for killing 148 Shia men and boys in Dujail in 1982. But today, some people in this town on the Tigris say they miss life under the Iraqi dictator because they felt more secure. Even some of those from Dujail whose family members were murdered and imprisoned during Saddam's iron-fisted rule seemed seduced by the idea of a strong leader after years of chaos, bloodshed and deprivation since the US-led invasion in 2003.
"If someone like Saddam came back, I'd not only support him, I'd invite him to dinner. My uncle was killed in 1982 in the Dujail incident. Still, life then was a million times better than now," said Saad Mukhlif, a Shia. Nostalgia for Saddam and his Sunni-led government in this largely Shia town mirrors a country-wide sense of frustration despite a drop in attacks and killings.
More http://www.newageislam.com/ArticleDetail.aspx?ArticleID=879
Ladies and gentlemen - we seem to have acquired a Muslim spammer, posting his little screeds of flowery misdirection and non-sequitur at the end of every thread.