"A champion of Western values on a continent that has lost confidence in them"

Wilders.jpeg

Although James Taranto in the reliably dhimmi Wall Street Journal is not sure whether or not Geert Wilders is simply an "anti-Islamic provocateur."

(You can see my interview with Geert Wilders, in six parts, at the Jihad Watch YouTube channel.)

"'Our Culture Is Better': Champion of freedom or anti-Islamic provocateur? Both," by James Taranto in the Wall Street Journal, November 28 (thanks to all who sent this in):

By his own description, Geert Wilders is not a typical Dutch politician. "We are a country of consensus," he tells me on a recent Saturday morning at his midtown Manhattan hotel. "I hate consensus. I like confrontation. I am not a consensus politician. . . . This is something that is really very un-Dutch."

Yet the 45-year-old Mr. Wilders says he is the most famous politician in the Netherlands: "Everybody knows me. . . . There is no other politician -- not even the prime minister -- who is as well-known. . . . People hate me, or they love me. There's nothing in between. There is no gray area."

To his admirers, Mr. Wilders is a champion of Western values on a continent that has lost confidence in them. To his detractors, he is an anti-Islamic provocateur. Both sides have a point.

It is a pity that Taranto would characterize speaking accurately about how Muslims use Islamic texts and teachings to justify violence and Islamic supremacism as being an "anti-Islamic provocateur." In this he plays into the hands of the stealth jihadists in the U.S. and the OIC initiatives at the UN -- both of which defame all Islamorealism as "Islamophobia."

In March, Mr. Wilders released a short film called "Fitna," a harsh treatment of Islam that begins by interspersing inflammatory Quran passages with newspaper and TV clips depicting threats and acts of violent jihad. The second half of the film, titled "The Netherlands Under the Spell of Islam," warns that Holland's growing Muslim population -- which more than doubled between 1990 and 2004, to 944,000, some 5.8% of the populace -- poses a threat to the country's traditional liberal values. Under the heading, "The Netherlands in the future?!" it shows brutal images from Muslim countries: men being hanged for homosexuality, a beheaded woman, another woman apparently undergoing genital mutilation. [...]

Harsh, yes, but whence the harshness? Was Fitna accurate or not in depicting how jihadists make use of the Qur'an to justify violence? See the answer here.

Having his own party liberates Mr. Wilders to speak his mind. As he sees it, the West suffers from an excess of toleration for those who do not share its tradition of tolerance. "We believe that -- 'we' means the political elite -- that all cultures are equal," he says. "I believe this is the biggest disease today facing Europe. . . . We should wake up and tell ourselves: You're not a xenophobe, you're not a racist, you're not a crazy guy if you say, 'My culture is better than yours.' A culture based on Christianity, Judaism, humanism is better. Look at how we treat women, look at how we treat apostates, look at how we go with the separation of church and state. I can give you 500 examples why our culture is better."

Those who would cry "Racist!" to this should consider whether stonings, amputations, death for apostasy, and other provisions of Islamic law are really something they consider to be ingredients of a just and harmonious society.

He acknowledges that "the majority of Muslims in Europe and America are not terrorists or violent people." But he says "it really doesn't matter that much, because if you don't define your own culture as the best, dominant one, and you allow through immigration people from those countries to come in, at the end of the day you will lose your own identity and your own culture, and your society will change. And our freedom will change -- all the freedoms we have will change."

The murder of van Gogh lends credence to this warning, as does the Muhammad cartoon controversy of 2005 in Denmark. As for "Fitna," it has not occasioned a violent response, but its foes have made efforts to suppress it. A Dutch Muslim organization went to court seeking to enjoin its release on the ground that, in Mr. Wilders's words, "it's not in the interest of Dutch security." The plaintiffs also charged Mr. Wilders with blasphemy and inciting hatred. Mr. Wilders thought the argument frivolous, but decided to pre-empt it: "The day before the verdict, I broadcasted ['Fitna'] . . . not because I was not confident in the outcome, but I thought: I'm not taking any chance, I'm doing it. And it was legal, because there was not a verdict yet." The judge held that the national-security claim was moot and ruled in Mr. Wilders's favor on the issues of blasphemy and incitement. [...]

An organization called The Netherlands Shows Its Colors filed a criminal complaint against Mr. Wilders for "inciting hatred." In June, Dutch prosecutors declined to pursue the charge, saying in a statement: "That comments are hurtful and offensive for a large number of Muslims does not mean that they are punishable." The group is appealing the prosecutors' decision.

That is a key case. If it becomes punishable to offend Muslims, as the OIC is trying to establish, then it will no longer be possible to speak about the ideology of those who would subjugate us. And so that subjugation will proceed while we remain mute.

In July, a Jordanian prosecutor, acting on a complaint from a pressure group there, charged Mr. Wilders with blasphemy and other crimes. The Netherlands has no extradition treaty with Jordan, but Mr. Wilders worries -- and the head of the group that filed the complaint has boasted -- that the indictment could restrict his ability to travel. Mr. Wilders says he does not visit a foreign country without receiving an assurance that he will not be arrested and extradited.

"The principle is not me -- it's not about Geert Wilders," he says. "If you look at the press and the rest of the political elite in the Netherlands, nobody cares. Nobody gives a damn. This is the worst thing, maybe. . . . A nondemocratic country cannot use the international or domestic legal system to silence you. . . . If this starts, we can get rid of all parliaments, and we should close down every newspaper, and we should shut up and all pray to Mecca five times a day."

It is difficult to fault Mr. Wilders's impassioned defense of free speech. And although the efforts to silence him via legal harassment have proved far from successful, he rightly points out that they could have a chilling effect, deterring others from speaking out.

Quite so.

Mr. Wilders's views on Islam, though, are problematic. Since 9/11, American political leaders have struggled with the question of how to describe the ideology of the enemy without making enemies of the world's billion or so Muslims. The various terms they have tried -- "Islamic extremism," "Islamism," "Islamofascism" -- have fallen short of both clarity and melioration. Melioration is not Mr. Wilders's highest priority, and to him the truth couldn't be clearer: The problem is Islam itself. "I see Islam more as an ideology than as a religion," he explains.

CAIR's Ibrahim Hooper said much the same thing. Could Honest Ibe himself be an "Islamophobe"? Who'd have imagined it? Will James Taranto characterize Hooper's view of Islam as "problematic"?

His own view of Islam is a fundamentalist one: "According to the Quran, there are no moderate Muslims. It's not Geert Wilders who's saying that, it's the Quran . . . saying that. It's many imams in the world who decide that. It's the people themselves who speak about it and talk about the terrible things -- the genital mutilation, the honor killings. This is all not Geert Wilders, but those imams themselves who say this is the best way of Islam."

Note that Wilders characterizes his views as being the views of Islamic imams and the statements of the Qur'an, and Taranto nonetheless willy-nilly reports this as "his own view of Islam," which is "fundamentalist." That there are indeed so many "fundamentalist" imams in Europe and elsewhere, and that mainstream, authoritative Islam does indeed teach these things, doesn't seem to interest him. Certainly there are voices within Islam that Taranto would consider "non-fundamentalist," but how much influence do they have? Is their following larger among non-Muslims than it is among Muslims? Taranto should have considered these questions.

Yet he insists that his antagonism toward Islam reflects no antipathy toward Muslims: "I make a distinction between the ideology . . . and the people. . . . There are people who call themselves Muslims and don't subscribe to the full part of the Quran. And those people, of course, we should invest [in], we should talk to." He says he would end Muslim immigration to the Netherlands but work to assimilate those already there.

Wilders "insists" that he has no "antipathy toward Muslims." When a writer uses "insists," generally he thinks that the facts are other than whatever position his subject is insisting upon. In other words, Taranto here seems to reveal his own assumption that someone who reports and warns about Islamic jihad and Islamic supremacism is doing so simply out of some irrational "antipathy toward Muslims."

His idea of how to do so, however, seems unlikely to win many converts: "You have to give up this stupid, fascist book" -- the Quran. "This is what you have to do. You have to give up that book."

Mr. Wilders is right to call for a vigilant defense of liberal principles. A society has a right, indeed a duty, to require that religious minorities comply with secular rules of civilized behavior. But to demand that they renounce their religious identity and holy books is itself an affront to liberal principles.

Does Taranto realize that his last two sentences contradict one another? Does he have any idea that to comply with "secular rules of civilized behavior," Muslims would have to discard large portions of the Qur'an and Sunnah and the Sharia rules that are derived from them? Probably he doesn't. Nonetheless, when the religion's foremost and central authorities teach that the religious law must dominate, and also teach supremacism, violence, the oppression of women and more, and justify these teachings by reference to the religion's core texts, there is a conflict when those who hold to the religion move into countries full of unbelievers. That conflict will eventually come to a head one way or another, unless the host country capitulates without any kind of resistance.

Maybe Wilders's call for them to discard the Qur'an is quixotic and unrealistic, and in any case I myself oppose any call to ban any book. Ideas should be fought with better ideas, not with censorship. Maybe Wilders would gain more traction calling for serious, honest reform based on a genuine rejection of literalism in interpreting the Qur'an and Sunnah, and upon a searching reevaluation of the legal superstructure of Sharia. In any case, neither one is likely to happen. But as long as James Taranto and those of his ilk are unable or unwilling to come to grips with the reality of the problem of Islamic supremacism, and slyly vilify people like Wilders who are standing up to it, one thing is certain: Islamic supremacists will continue to erode the freedoms and rights that have up to now been enjoyed by the free citizens of the West.

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64 Comments

Mr. Wilders is a great culturist. I disagree with him on one major issue. The West is not obviously the best.

The West, particularly, may not be the best in terms of survival. Islam is now encroaching on us more than we are encroaching on them. We seem confused. They seem determined.

Humans absorb cultures. We prefer Western ways, not because of our genes, but because we were raised in Western ways. That is not to say our affiliation is trivial. We could live no where else. We are Western and charged with carrying on that tradition.

When we say we are the best, it leads to complacency. It leads to the assumption that we're destined to triumph and all will assimilate. It also leads to notions of our culture being universal in the form of human rights. This breaks down our sovereignty.

There are no human rights. There is a Western culture fighting an Islamic culture. We have no human rights in Islamic nations. They do not exist. Rights are a Western concept. They are now being used against us. If you are not a Western nation citizen, you have no human right to travel there. Period.

All civilizations are culturist. We must be culturist too. Down with multiculturalism. Up with culturism. We have a core culture to protect.

www.culturism.us

Strange how those who actually crack a book or two on Islam (not Armstrong or Esposito however), especially the Quran or ahadith, nearly always end up being critics of Islam. Whereas those who rigorously protect the purity of their ignorance find Islam like most any other religion.

Speaking of which, this is the best online resource I've found in a while. It claims to have Reliance of the Traveller, inter alia:

http://geocities.com/crusadersarmory/

I followed a link at Religion of Peace to Canada Free Press and then to his personal blog's comments here:

http://factsnotfantasy.blogspot.com/2008/11/religion-of-peace-strikes-again.html

"But to demand that they renounce their religious identity and holy books is itself an affront to liberal principles."

Now, now, they don't have to go so far. Surely it would be adequate to come forth and claim that if the Quran was written by a perfect being, he was a racist.

After all, that's why so many unblushingly are compelled to do and say what they do as pious devotees having submitted to a perfect being's racism.

That also would do away with these silly complaints over the Stone and the Tree, after all, if god is a racist, then it must be okay for the madman to have been one?

During the very age that Christianity was so successfully pushed out of the public square in the Western world, who would've guessed in the 50s, 60s or 70s...that Orwell's nightmarish warning would have found its roots and traction in - of all things, religion.

Islam is the adopted child of Europe, impetuous, spoiled and ready to throw a tantrum any time it doesn't get its way....and Europe, ever trying to compensate with over-indulgence for not being the biological parent, is now too old and enfeebled to discipline its way-ward child.

The growing child, in turn, is mulling over the family papers, making plans to assume control over the property and confine the illegitimate parent to a back room.

"anti-Islamic provocateur"

What the world needs more of, NOW.

How many more wake-up calls is it going to take?

Wilders did not say "ban the Koran." He said Muslims should "give up that stupid, fascist book" [as their guide to life and living]. That is not the same thing as banning a book. It is excellent advice, I think.

The Koran should always be available--for psychology courses about violent cults, mind control, and socio-pathology--and as a source for Monty Python sketches.

We need a broader culturist program than asking those there to renounce their holy book.

First of all, we need to stop Muslim immigration. Whereas any one particular muslim may be moderate, we cannot vouch for their offspring. The more muslims there are, the greater the danger of terrorism and extremism. That is a result of percentages.

Secondly, Saudi Arabia cannot be allowed to build more mosques. We should welcome investment for a financial return. But mosque building and the funding of zealot imams is culturist aggression.

Third, western schools must teach western values. All children growing up in western nations must know that the West has fought Islam and theocracy for centuries. They must know and appreciate the Western mission. We need culturism, not multiculturalism.

Fourth, to the extent that there is terrorism, we need to be able to monitor and deport those who have broken their oaths by preaching for the destruction of the civilization in which they live. Individualism and universal rights concepts cannot be used to undermine the culture which sustains both concepts.

Being culturist and practicing culturism underlies all of these tactics. That is, we must recognize we have a unique traditional majority culture to protect. Saudi Arabia and China are culturist. They know they have a right to be culturst. We do too.

www.culturism.us

Cornelius,

Christianity was pushed out of the public square on the basis of the idea that the West has no particular culture. Our values are universal. This led to multiculturalism.

Unfortunately, our values are not universal. Respecting rights, conscience, freedom of speech and the relative separation of church and state are not universal. They are Western.

Anyone with a sense of history knows the West is a Judeo-Christian sanctuary. Islamic republics know it. We are the only culture that embraces multiculturalism on the pretext that we do not have a traditional majority culture or history.

www.culturism.us

Once again I find myself having to explain Wilders. He argues for censorship of the Quran because in the Netherlands any sort of "racist" speech is a crime. They do not have freedom of speech as we know it in the United States.

A book called Downfall of the Netherlands was a brilliant warning about what the Netherlands would become after allowing unfettered Islamic immigration. It was written by someone raised a Muslim. It was banned, destroyed, and the author was fined. It is in this context of unfair and unequal censorship that Wilders calls for banning the Quran. It's a rhetorical point against censorship in other words.

CULTURIST: "Unfortunately, our values are not universal. Respecting rights, conscience, freedom of speech and the relative separation of church and state are not universal. They are Western."

RESPONSE: It is our duty to push these values onto the world, so that they are eventually accepted as universal. We've done so successfully in parts of the orient that had no democratic tradition. Japan, Taiwan, the Philippines, South Korea, and to a lessor extent, Singapore, are pluralistic, democratic societies because of the power and allure of Western culture.

Tragically, the adoption of multiculturalism signaled the abandonment of those values. If Western culture is to prevail as universal, multiculturalism MUST be jettisoned.

Wilders is great. He is the ONLY politician here in Holland who actually sees the dangers of the growing islamic influences in the Netherlands. I think that he knows very well that if nothing is being done soon than Holland will slowly change into Hollandistan. ALL other politicians are in serious denial about that.
When the next elections come i would certainly support him.

Beagle,

This is a trick. When they say Wilders is racist, they conflate race and culture. Racism is irrational and dangerous. When they call Wilders racist, they paint him as such. Actually, he is culturist. And since cultural diversity is real, culturism is rational and necessary.

The multiculturalists, ironically, try to stop discussions of diversity by painting all who would discuss it as racist. When they say we must, "celebrate diversity" they show that they do not think it is important. They also undermine our ability to guide our culture.

Should we celebrate teen pregnancy, polygamy, dropping out of school and jihad? These are all cultural attributes. Culturists take cultural diversity seriously. And that has nothing to do with race.

I'm sure the book, Downfall of the Netherlands, was not racist either. We should not let them trick us with this word game. We must identify as culturists.

www.culturism.us

This is something that I definitely want to look into. Thanks for posting it!

Christopher Hamilton
The Right Opinion, for the Right Wing

One has to wonder if Wilders really knows what he's talking about. He makes reference to Christianity, Judaism, and humanism. Let's take a look at that.

Normative, classical Orthodox Judaism calls upon those under its standard theological rule to be subject to capital punishment for adultery, homosexuality, violating the Sabbath, and being a false prophet. Idolaters are to be uprooted and dispossesed from their homes. As well as having a network of laws that makes odious distinctions between how Jews vs. non-Jews should be treated. Is this Wilders idyllic paradise?

I also doubt that he has a strong, commanding understanding of true classical Christian thought which has called for civil authority to recognize, protect, and support the True Faith and True Church. So much for separation of church and state.

And humanism? An ideology that posits that we live in an empty, materialistic, nihilistic void bereft of any objective and authoritative norms of behavior or truth about the nature and value of the human soul. And we all know where such atheism ultimately leads, as the 20th Century showed us rather starkly. To borrow and turn a phrase from Mr. Spencer, there may be moderate atheists, but there are certainly no moderate atheisms.

Cornelius,

I think you must agree that we must always ask what is best for western civilization. We may disagree on tactics, but I'm sure you put the West first.

Unfortunately, the idea that we can just push Western values is culturally neutral. It spreads the idea that all are potentially great Western citizens. This is not true. Islamic countries have an ideological virus that prevents them from becoming Western.

When we fight wars to spread our ideals we bankrupt Western nations. That weakens the only part of the globe that is actually dedicated to rights, free speech etc. Asian countries have a sort of racist nationalism going that only superficially accepts universals.

Spreading the idea of our culture as normative undermines our determination to safeguard it and the cultural demographics it requires. Universal values make the West the only asylum accepting civilization.

If I could export Western values via military I would. But balanced budgets and closed borders will to this better than somehow fighting to export them. Now the world sees that they lead to weakness. We need to put us first.

www.culturism.us

What is it about the James Tarantos of this world that they are so blind as to see the true nature of what is going on, especially in this case Islam?

Would the James Tarantos have been able to have elevated into their position in journalism had they grown up in an Islamic society? Would the James Tarantos, parents have been able to have done what they have done in the West in Islamic countries? Would they have had the freedoms to be whatever their hearts decided them to be? Would they have been able to have survived were it not for the people around them, part of Western Society who chose to create Democracies, constitutions and create armies with which to protect them? Would they have been able to have survived in Islamic lands were they Muslim, if it had not been for medical and technological advancement of the West?

I could go on and on and on, but I am just dumbstruck by people's blatant ignorance of the facts before them. What is so hard that James Taranto is unable to see just what the true nature of Islam is? Why is he completely oblivious as to see just what America and the West would be like under Islam? One only has to look at the persecution of women under the Taliban to see it.
What annoys me most however is that they'll sit in their Echelon Towers, spouting their diatribe and live for all when they very people they preach love for have no intention of preaching that love back. It's nothing more than madness.

Wilder's is a proud Dutchman, watching his culture being destroyed by Islam. He is one of millions of Europeans who feel the same way. It is only the minority Politicians, who are protecting the minority Muslims and creating laws to protect them, in doing so setting the foundation for Islamisation, of course at all times protected by the Police, the very people there to protect us AND incidentally, paid for by our taxes and not Islams!

What will happen? I don't know. All I can say is; Islam will continue to grow unhindered as long as people like James Taranto are allowed to publish their articles, further brainwashing the minds of Westerners who have no idea just what they are allowing to grow alongside them.

"People hate me, or they love me."

I love him!! But is that his natural hair color? I mean the Dude has roots, LOL!

fairuzfan > And humanism? An ideology that posits that we live in an empty, materialistic, nihilistic void bereft of any objective and authoritative norms of behavior or truth about the nature and value of the human soul.

I believe Wilders intuitively, if not consciously, knows that Judaism and Christianity were possessed of the capacity to evolve over time and adapt to developments in man's political, cultural, economic and social spheres. The Roman Catholic world's eventual acceptance of the Jeffersonian doctrine of the separation of church and state in Western democracies would be a case in point. Orthodox Judaism's modern refusal to stone adultresses would be another. But I sense that Wilders also fully comprehends that Islam is different here. Its norms and values function as a paradigm for action for all time, no evolution or adaptation allowable. The root of this inflexibility would appear to go back to the Koran itself, which is a matter of dictation from on high rather than, as with the Old and New Testaments, an ineffable divine inspiration guiding human composition.

Wilders also knows something else, I believe, and that is that Western Civilization put forward the concept of the worth and dignity of the individual such as no other civilization or society has in the history of mankind. In brief, he's proud to be from the West, as he should be, and sees Western concepts of tolerance now being using by thoughtless Westerners who think themselves enlightened because they have imbibed political correctness and multiculturalism to such a degree that they will tolerate the obliteration of their own culture in the name of tolerance.

Zoltix, I think my comment about humanism is perfectly true. Classical humanism posits atheism. Therefore, regardless of whatever else humanism may claim, the fact that it's atheistic means that my observations as to what it intrinsically entails are absolutely true, however much humanists ignore or downplay such matters. Calling upon people to act nicely in no way means you have coherently erected an objective and authoritative apparatus regarding human behavior.

Wellington,

I suspect you are correct in terms of Wilder's understanding. And, I hope you meant your two paragraphs to be tied together.

Western nations have forgotten that their individualism and rights grew out of a hard struggle within a specific tradition. We now, instead, get confused and think our values universal and the default. Western values are earned and fragile.

It is a Kantian dedication to building all from individual reason and making rights, not Western, but universal that has undermined our ability to define and protect ourselves. We don't see our culture as specific. We allow individual rights to challenge Western civilization's need to protect and guide its culture.

Multiculturalism implies that we have no core culture. It is the ultimate in ingratitude to our past. It also assumes a sort of universal humanism. When the West goes, rights will not exist! We must, as Widers urges, protect our specific western culture.

www.culturism.us

Taranto should not have included the very last sentence in his piece. He was reporting on Geert Wilders. We don't need to know what James Taranto thinks -- or assumes -- of how "liberal principles" should be defined. Mr. Justice Jackson said the Constitution is not a suicide pact. In wartime special measures are needed. The war being made on the West, and All the Rest, by Islam -- the one that the Qur'an inculcates -- is a war without end. Therefore wartime measures, taken against Islam, must not have an end.

If Taranto thought it was important to do more than report Wilders' views, and he, Taranto, needed to make some final comment of his own -- he might have put in one last sentence, something like "some may disagree with Wilders and argue that the banning of a particular book -- the Qur'an -- would violate what they consider to be 'liberal principles' but others will maintain that the threat to the advanced West is so unprecedented that extraordinary measures may need to be taken, and mechanical invocation of 'liberal principles' may prevent us from adequately defending ourselves. Still others may think that banning the Qur'an is not a good idea because non-Muslims need to become more, not less, familiar with the contents of the Qur'an and what it so clearly inculcates, with the results we all see."

fairuzfan,

You, obviously, don't know much about Judaism. The Torah is the basis of Jewish law but Jewish law is not a synonym for the Torah. Jewish law is called HALACHAH - literally, "the way to walk" - and it evolved greatly since Biblical times. An obvious example will be: In Biblical times poligamy was the norm, while in modern Judaism it is prohibited.

James Taranto is a 'small c' Chamberlain. Geert Wilders is a hero for our times.

culturist: I did indeed mean for the two paragraphs to be tied together. Though not religious myself, I find Judaism and Christianity the most important and impressive of all religions because theologically they have put forward an emphasis on the individual which complements beautifully the ancient Greek approach of doing the same philosophically. I think it no coincidence that after the great experiment of democracy in ancient Greece died away with the ending of the ancient world, it was reborn slowly but surely over the centuries in a civilization steeped in the Judeo-Christian worldview. Though Hinduism and Buddhism and other Eastern religions have notable, even sapient, elements in them, they do not project enough value for the individual life to allow for the democratic experiment to be born unaided by Western contribution. Of course, Islam, a closed system of thought which governs every aspect of life, had zero chance of producing free, tolerant and democratic societies. And I agree with you about multiculturalism. It is a prescription for Western suicide.

Fairfuzan doesn't know anything about Judaism, Christianity, or humanism. This is a typical symptom of Mohammedan mental illness. What he doesn't understand is that Judaism, Christianity, humanism, the UDRH, and Objectivism all come down to objective morality, and yes, Culturist, it is universal. Just because Western society was at one time the one which embraced objective morality (the Japanese and South Koreans have long-since done so and the Hindus almost have it, if not for their misogyny). It's about the Golden Rule. If you don't want it to happen to you then you don't do it to others. This is the crux of the US Constitution, the UDHR, and every civilized legal system. This, in and of itself, is what empowers the individual -- universal human rights based on objective morality. Mohammedans can't understand that because in their sick worldview not everyone is created equal. Women are subhuman, mutilated, undead-corpse, sex-slave baby factories deviod of any rights who are to be raped, enslaved, traded like cattle, and murdered with impunity for aspiring to human status. Non-Muslims are infidel apes and pigs to be murdered, enslaved, tortured, raped, plundered, and extorted. This warped, perverted worldview is (a) indicative of malignant naricissism, a serious, incurable mental illness which renders one intolerable to decent human beings, and (b) the main reason why the individual is not empowered in Islamic dogma, hence the Muslim world's futility, backwardness, cruelty, and, well, insurmountable and permanent inferiority to every other society. Of course he can't understand that and looks for ways to twist Jewish, Christian, and humanist dogma so as to paint them as irreconcilable with modernity and human rights. This is simply a semi-transparent stab at moral equivalency. Modernity, human rights, objective morality, and every society worth living in grew out of Judaism, Christianity, and humanism. And jabbing at atheists? That's just pathetic. Atheists are by and large humanists, every single one I've ever met or talked to. He can't wrap his evil head around humanism, which is at the core of Christianity and Judaism. Not surprising, coming from a malignant narcissist. Sheesh, Mohammedans are transparent. They will never understand equality. They are therefore, not worthy of dealing with or talking to, and have doomed themselves to the state that they've always been in, that is, until they can't parasitize us anymore, then they will cannibalize.

CULTURIST: "Spreading the idea of our culture as normative undermines our determination to safeguard it and the cultural demographics it requires."

On the contrary, it is precisely BECAUSE of demographics that it is imperative we in the West push our values as universalist NOW, before a time when there are precious few of us left who believe in them.

I agree that a military imposition is not feasible; all the more reason to accentuate our values in the political and ideological realm.

As for Islam's acceptance or lack of, this is an ancillary consideration. We will be better placed to pressure and impose change on the Islamic world culturally if China, Russia, and the entirety of the non-Muslim world have accepted the basic premises of economic, political and intellectual freedom.

I don't believe in parochialism; the traditions of human freedom are certainly rooted in the West, but we must espouse these values as universal and the patrimony of all mankind...if we ever hope to realize a day when they are adopted as such.

To echo Cornelius, at the risk of being trite, the West is best (it's a pure pleasure being multiculturally incorrect). That's all. Outta' here. Gotta' watch some college football and drink some beer.

Wellington,

I hears ya, my man.

I'm drying out today after two nights of excess, but come tomorrow, the NFL play-off picture figures to get much more clarity...and I'll either be celebrating to excess...or drowning my sorrows, depending upon the fortunes of my team.

It's funny, when things go well on Sunday, I revel in NFL.com all week, devouring the articles and the stats. But when my boys lose, I avoid it like the plague.

Just the nature of things, I guess. I ain't no masochist.

“To his detractors, he is an anti-Islamic provocateur.”

1. What non-Muslim person, and what non-Islamic ideology, is not, from the perspective of Muslims and Islam, an “anti-Islamic provocateur”? Mere disbelief in Islam is considered the worst possible sin-crime according to the Quran. Even dhimmis are despised and humiliated. It should be clear by now that the fact that most non-Muslims keep their mouths shut, or modulate what they say, in public about Islam and Muslims does little to change Muslims’ attitudes or Islam’s policies toward non-Muslims.

2. The imams in Europe, Australia, and elsewhere say that non-Muslim women who do not cover up with “proper” Islamic attire are anti-Islamic provocateurs of a sort. These same imams claim that such women are partly if not entirely to blame when Muslim men rape them.

“Mr. Wilders's views on Islam, though, are problematic.”

At no point does Taranto present any evidence that Wilders views on Islam are “problematic” with regards to accuracy and veracity.

“His own view of Islam is a fundamentalist one: "According to the Quran, there are no moderate Muslims. It's not Geert Wilders who's saying that, it's the Quran . . . saying that.”

I don't know about "moderates," but the Quran does distinguish between different kinds of Muslims and grades them. Guess which Muslims are the more highly ranked (4:95, 9:20)?

“Mr. Wilders is right to call for a vigilant defense of liberal principles. A society has a right, indeed a duty, to require that religious minorities comply with secular rules of civilized behavior. But to demand that they renounce their religious identity and holy books is itself an affront to liberal principles.”

Debate is not an affront to liberal principles. It is not unreasonable to argue with someone to change their beliefs or reject their doctrines. This does happen in free societies. Wilders is not asking Muslims to give up all of their identity or all of their holy books as such. He is only asking that they give up that part of their identity and holy books which are linked to sharia, violence, intolerance, etc. (If Wilders did suggest actually banning the Quran—and I’m not sure that he currently holds that view--I don’t agree with that).

"Normative, classical Orthodox Judaism calls upon those under its standard theological rule to be subject to capital punishment for adultery, homosexuality, violating the Sabbath, and being a false prophet. Idolaters are to be uprooted and dispossesed from their homes. As well as having a network of laws that makes odious distinctions between how Jews vs. non-Jews should be treated.
...
"I also doubt that (Wilders) has a strong, commanding understanding of true classical Christian thought which has called for civil authority to recognize, protect, and support the True Faith and True Church. So much for separation of church and state."

Posted by: fairuzfan

Fairuzfan, you forgot to include the Crusades! Please, don't insult the readers here by dragging out these same old discredited arguments. Why don't you flesh out your diatribe with some statistics, broken down by century or era and whether the cultures that promoted this or that form of violence in any given era still practice them today? Of course, the reason you don't is because if you did it would become apparent that all except Islam have evolved and abandoned, centuries ago, those forms of violence you cite above. Your being psychologically and theologically addicted to Seventh Century primitivism and insisting on forcefully shoving it down everyone's throat is our main complaint against Islam. Abandon the attachment to your irrational and childish beliefs, admit to and seek forgiveness for crimes against humanity in the name of your "religion" practiced not only in the historical past but still being pushed today, and join the modern world!

Jdamm and others,

If the liberal democracy ways of the West are so obviously universal, why do Muslim immigrants to western countries not assimilate? Why would so many in polls say they think the West corrupt and worthy of being overthrown? Why jihad? And why does the UN vote against free speech? Do these people not represent the "real desires" of the Islamic peoples? Are they just angry because they really want secular humanism?

Could it be that diversity is real and that some ideologies disagree with western precepts? I think so. That is why I think it so dangerous to have said people in our lands. If I thought they'd naturally become great citizens who see the logic of our Western values, I would not be worried. But I am.

The West is the best - to us. And if we want to keep it, we have to fight for it. And when the West falls, rights and democracy will fall too. Don't look for China to implement a color blind,democratic, free speech zone. Don't expect it in the Middle East. Progressive individual-respecting democracies are not the default of humanity. Believe it or not, muslims want Sharia law.

www.culturism.us

Hugh, good one. Here's another one, a somewhat different take on the "I'm a lumberjack" theme.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Lu3Pgxo1hs

and another Monty Python pearl

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-39etUuy6dM

Along the same lines, I say we should give tuition wavers to would-be Muslim suicide bombers so they could receive their certification from Monty Python's School of Judean Suicide

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o_12E1EN6fs

"What is it about the James Tarantos of this world that they are so blind as to see the true nature of what is going on, especially in this case Islam?"

Taranto is a staunch globalist. He along with such free market colleagues as John Fund and Tamar Jacoby have helped block any sensible immigration reform resulting in flooding America with masses of impoverished and hostile third world immigrants. The Taranto group, paradoxically, is also very concerned about paying more taxes. So lets examine how their policies have worked out for them. The alteration in US demography that they have encouraged has resulted in the election of an uber liberal president with the middle name Hussein who proposes a vast increase in tax rates. So why would one take anything Taranto says seriously?

The 7th century Qur'an has never evolved.

It's still the same old static Military/Hate/Mass-Murder Manual as Mohamet wrote it.

"Mr. Wilders's views on Islam, though, are problematic."
-- from James Taranto's comments above on Geert Wilders

By their word choices, shall ye know them:

http://www.newenglishreview.org/blog_direct_link.cfm/blog_id/10707

"Fairfuzan doesn't know anything about Judaism, Christianity, or humanism. "

Me thinks Fairuzfan doesn't understand much about Islam either, otherwise he wouldn't come here and blow smoke our way.....

culturist: Something can be the best and still many human beings for sundry bad reasons will not follow or even recognize what is the best. When dealing with non-Western societies, particularly Islamic ones, one should not overestimate their capacity too see things clearly where the paramount issue of real freedom is concerned. In other words, the tendency in man to do stupid things, even over and over again and against his best interests, is, sadly, a feature of human life. As an example, look at how prosperous and dynamic Israel has been now for over half a century. It is an amazingly productive country. Surrounding it are numerous Arab states. And have they learned anything these many years of value from their neighbor's excellence in numerous endeavors. The answer, of course, is a resounding "No." Stupidity is a very powerful factor in human affairs, never to be overlooked when assessing why humans do what they do.

"A book called Downfall of the Netherlands was a brilliant warning about what the Netherlands would become after allowing unfettered Islamic immigration" posted by Beagle

The Downfall of the Netherlands
Land of the Naive Fools

Mohammed Rasoel

Translation courtesy of Faust

Posted by Beagle:
A book called Downfall of the Netherlands was a brilliant warning about what the Netherlands would become after allowing unfettered Islamic immigration. It was written by someone raised a Muslim. It was banned, destroyed, and the author was fined. It is in this context of unfair and unequal censorship that Wilders calls for banning the Quran. It's a rhetorical point against censorship in other words.

It’s a real collection of parables of the terrible, an Aesop’s Fables on the dangers of unthinking, indulgent tolerance. Though it won’t be a best seller, it makes for quite the read:

(Islam) The Downfall of the Netherlands- Land of the Naive Fools

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1980674/posts


Sorry the link didn't work . . .it's through web archive - copy paste url into browser:

http://web.archive.org/web/20060617191123/http://www.childrenofmillennium.org/heroes/downfall.htm

Oops, Heroyalwhyness, you beat me to it.

Wellingont,

"Stupidity is a very powerful factor in human affairs, never to be overlooked when assessing why humans do what they do."

Since you said stupidity is pretty much in every society and I agree, this would be an irrelevant fact about Muslims, because they are not just showing normal statistical amounts of stupidity that every society has, but much more. It's the non-stupidity factors about Muslims that are important, not the stupidity factors. Same goes for every other universal thing you can think of that makes all societies flawed, like crimes, laziness, addictions, dysfunctions, etc. Since all societies have them to some statistical extent, it becomes useless to use these as explanations for the Muslim societies. The only useful explanation for us is Islamic. Otherwise, you'd be confirming what that Abdullah Mikhail always says, that the problems with Muslims are just "statistical" and normal for any society.

Culturist, I didn't say that democracy and liberal values were universal. I said that human rights ideals are universal. Of course many societies don't accept or implement them, as they conflict with the social order or backward ideal. Even under communism, wherein all people are equal, they still lack many human rights like freedom of religion, security of person (many Chinese get letters saying that their homes will be bulldozed the next day and they have to leave), or freedom of speech, for example. But human rights ideals are universal. They derive from and hold up to objective morality.

Muslims have no concept of universality or morality. Islam has not one single moral teaching. Sure, it has a few which tell you how to appear moral without actually being so (how to be a good hypocrite) and a few teachings which sound moral but which only apply within the ummah and are therefore immoral because of their non-universality. They can't accept freedom because they throw their lives away in a cult that gives them 500 instructions on how to go to the bathroom. The Arabic word for 'govern' does not mean 'to guide, to steer' as it does in every Indo-European language. It means 'to subdue, to suppress,' and Sharia means 'the path down which cattle are led.' Not much respect for the individual in a system like that. Of course they can't assimilate. They're supremacists and they are therefore several centuries from being ready for democracy. They're as immoral as people can be in every imaginable way. They hate freedom and they can't handle it. They can't even handle the truth. Anything that threatens their sicko/pervert, racist, sexist, inhumane parallel universe is unacceptable to them, and it doesn't take much. Hence the necessity to them of quieting any discussion of Islam. When people find out about it they will stop accepting it. Even if critical discussion of Islam were allowed in Islamic societies, I don't think it could thrive, at least not outside the Arab world. Under Islam, they can't even accept that all people are human, hence the subjection of women to cattle status, slavery, dhimmitude, and genocide.

Diversity is not a bad thing. It's just a matter of having decent, moral, hard-working human beings. Drop a South Korean anywhere in America and they will assimilate in a week. There's a 1st-year MA student in my department who just moved here from South Korea. I got to talking to her a couple of weeks into the semester and was shocked at how, first of all, she had no accent (which is remarkable but has nothing to do with assimilation), but also by how American she seemed to me. There was no cultural barrier. I talk to my Luo field methods informant and, while we come from very different cultures, there is always tons of middle ground, which makes discourse very natural. I have a very hard time stayong on task with her beacuse we just gab during our meetings. With Mohammedans it's different. First of all, if they're able to communicate with you at all, their fakeness is seriously creepy, as is their impenetrable wall of malignant narcissism. That's because of their supremacy, the fact that they live in a sicko/pervert parallel universe, and because there is not one issue, one topic, one subject upon which Muslims and non-Muslims agree. It's Mohammedan backwardness, inherent mental illness, and lack of simple morality that makes it impossible for them to assimilate. Anyone else can do it, no problem. Ask any Vietnamese boat person or Sudanese Dinka or person who grew up behind the Iron Curtain. They're more like you than they are different and they have no problem fitting into any free-world society. Mohammedans are nothing like you. They never can be.

The problem with Mohammedans is their supremacy. It precludes morality. It precludes assimiliation into a civilized society. Of course they think we're 'immoral.' They have to scrounge up something to make themselves feel superior. There's not much. So they push their sicko/pervert concept of morality, whereby women living like human beings and not cattle is 'immoral.' My favorite is when they call us 'decadent.' It's all projection. All of it. Remember, they necessarily lack elgitimate primary-school educations. Of course they can't recognize that. That's why the smart ones and the moral ones apostacize. Think about the apostates you know of. They're exceptionally brilliant and kind individuals.

But of course the West is the best. Ibn Warraq said so: http://www.city-journal.org/2008/18_1_snd-west.html

I'm not even sure we're disagreeing. Maybe I just wasn't clear enough in the first place.

Posted by fairuzfan:

I also doubt that he has a strong, commanding understanding of true classical Christian thought which has called for civil authority to recognize, protect, and support the True Faith and True Church. So much for separation of church and state.

Good, point, that was true for Christian though; four hundred years ago. Too bad current Islamic theologians still teach it, and worse.

And we all know where such atheism ultimately leads, as the 20th Century showed us rather starkly. To borrow and turn a phrase from Mr. Spencer, there may be moderate atheists, but there are certainly no moderate atheisms.

Yeah, sure Fairuzfan, and cultural power vacuum created by the Church of Multiculturalism’s refusal to recognize, much less deal with, Islamic aggression is setting the stage for a repeat performance. It’s just my opinion, but I don’t think Islamic “thinkers” and their followers who pine for that Old Time Religion have thought this particular aspect through too well.

That is the Islamic Dilemma, isn’t it? Will the infidel world crumble completely, or before that can happen, will the cultural and terrorist pressure on non-muslims cause the re-immergence of another phenomenon; no-holds-barred supremacy movements, married to high technology and mass production expertise? How literally might those movements take pronouncements like “we love death more than you love life”, and will they decide to make it happen for them, and all those around them.

DenverRodeo: Stupidity as a factor in human affairs exists in every society, but it does not exist in equal measure in all societies and that was an implied point of my previous post. I would argue, speaking in the aggregate, that Western Civilization has manifested less stupidity and more excellence than any other civilization in history (though there is still, unfortunately, more than enough stupidity to go around even in the Western past----witness the two world wars as examples here).

Non-Western societies can dubiously claim (were they honest) more than their share of stupidity, in large part because they have not valued the individual human being as much as Western Civilization has. The Islamic world is especially atrocious here. Islam as a religion, as a way of life, as a basis for any society to function well and productively, precisely proves my point that stupidity is never to be overlooked when analyzing human affairs. Yes, to be perfectly clear in a Nixonian way, it is my contention that Islam is a monstrous, almost an insuperable, stupidity and all mankind must now deal with it if mankind is to see a brighter future rather than a new age of darkness.

Islam is a burden to all of the human race and my poster example of man's capacity to deceive himself inordinately, even to the point of the annihilation of what is most impressive about the species labeled Homo sapiens--------its capacity to reason.

OK first notice the high commisioner of un stateing its hate speech correct muslims produce more hate speech then anyone.
Second ban ki moon secretary general states it incites violance did the guy actually watch the film it shows violance by muslims.
THE HUMAN RIGHTS HIGH COMMISION SAYS WE SHOULD LIMIT FREE SPEECH
Think about that
Now another u.n. genius states that showing extreemeism creates it ok fair enough are they ready to attack and limit most arab tv programs showing children how to be suicide bombers like in palistine.
I have in last few days been cencored by this web site maybe fair maybe not ok but what i state is not racism not bigotry it is simple fact as well as my point that our news media should be well lets say prosecuted for treason very simple mr spencer you may not like what i state but the simple fact is it is time to get medevil with the folks heklping these people butcher most of the other peoplers around the world but also those hideing it and encourageing it if it came down to your childrens lifes what would you suggest we are not playing on an equal playing field.

Under the heading, "The Netherlands in the future?!" it shows brutal images from Muslim countries: men being hanged for homosexuality, a beheaded woman, another woman apparently undergoing genital mutilation.

Harsh, yes, but whence the harshness? Was Fitna accurate or not in depicting how jihadists make use of the Qur'an to justify violence?
...............

Exactly. The "harshness" is not on the part of Wilders'--he only pointing out the harshness of Shari'ah. Attributing this to Wilders' himself is the most idiotic form of blaming the messenger.

more:

His own view of Islam is a fundamentalist one: "According to the Quran, there are no moderate Muslims. It's not Geert Wilders who's saying that, it's the Quran . . .
.................

More conflation. Saying that Wilders' view of Islam is "a fundamentalist one" lumps him in with Osama bin Laden--it gives the impression that it is the "view" which is the issue, rather than the core nature of Islam itself. If you say that Islam is a "Religion of Peace"--a "non-fundamentalist" view--does it make it so?

Robert Spencer wrote:

Maybe Wilders's call for them to discard the Qur'an is quixotic and unrealistic, and in any case I myself oppose any call to ban any book. Ideas should be fought with better ideas, not with censorship.
..................

I agree--but I do not have any reason to believe that banning the Qur'an is what Wilders' was calling for when he urged Muslims to "give up this stupid, fascist book". I agree with Stendec--I believe he was calling on Muslims to reject many of the ugly tenets of the Qur'an, not to make the book unavailable.

Jdamn, thanks for your excellent and impassioned defense of Humanism and the West.

It is very simple we tend to complete things especially people like our media politicians and the enemy throw as much crapinto the mix to complicate then dilute the truth.
On one side we have the muslims wanting world dominance useing veried means on other other the left west indoctrinated through soviet union stule propergander to assure the wests fall fall telling us how terrible we are while ignoring transgressions of murderers and butchers they are guilt ridden from there teachers telling them how horrible they are not explaining there are no innocent civilizations that noone alive today has innocent ancesters.
Until we truly are willing to go where muslims are willing to go we will lose.

Wellington a dark age with nuts with nukes.

and Sharia means 'the path down which cattle are led.'

Interesting. I've heard it's "the path leading to water." Not that there's much difference as cattle obviously need water.

As for The Downfall of the Netherlands, it's hardly the only example of thoughtful literature being banned or never created to avoid strict censorship laws in the Netherlands. And of course all the so-called civil libertarians don't bother showing up when there's a real chilling effect underway.

Wilders is simply pointing out the obvious. If ayats like 2.191, 8.12, 8.60, 9.5, 9.29, 47.4, and so on, were speech directed at Muslims or a particular race they would be illegal in the Netherlands. But the Quran seems to be the only legal compendium of hate speech and "racism" one can obtain in the Netherlands.

spcbat: This is written in a spirit of helpfulness. Your posts are almost unreadable. I don't have enough information to know why. Is English not your first (or even second) language? Few will read and respond to your posts (as I have exceptionally) unless you clear up your English language skills (e.g., punctuation, spelling, syntax, etc.).

wELL WELLINGTON LET ME TRY IT THIS WAY SINCE ENGLISH MAY NOT BE YOURS LARGE LETTERS TO BUD

YOU STATED ON ISLAM BEING THE NEXT DARK AGES OK FOLLOWING ME SO FAR

NOW I STATED DARK AGES WITH NUTS WITH NUKES YA STILL FOLLOWING ME IN THIS I MEAN THE MUSLIMS KILLING EVERYONE WILL HAVE NUCLEAR WEAPONS GOT IT OK SO WE DONT HAVE NO MORE PROBLEMS

I am the guy who pointed out and was proven right iran has had nukes since 1993 and was proven on this web site it was truth by another i have experience with muslimsseeing i fought with them and against them starting in 1983 pakistan border with not as they might have you think the taliban but mainly the northern alliance which in name did not exist at this time i have also pointed out alot here maybe some did not know.
SO PICK ON MY TYPING HECK MY MISS SPELLING I'M USUALLY DOING 5 THINGS AT ONCE AND HEY I CAP ALOT SO ME SUGGESTION IS SIMPLE DON'T RESPOND READ AND LEARN AS I SEE IT WE DON'T LOOK AT MESSAGES WE WORRY ABOUT NONSENSE EXACTLY WHAT THE MEDIA DOES TO HIDE THE TRUTH.
Iamong you have spent time in jail fighting this in protests i been attacked by muslims out side the u.n. so don't read the truth someone else with no knowledge who spends a lot more time with periods less caps can let you in on what you truly do not know .

I kind of have to agree with Wellington, spcbat. You are quite well-informed and you make great points but your posts are just really hard to parse. If you just put priods at the end of your sentences your posts would be a lot easier to read. I realize that this is the long sentence/subordinate clause queen talking to the run-on sentence king, but if we knew where one sentence ends and the next begins we would have a much easier time reading what you write. I can live with typos and spelling errors. I say this because I enjoy your posts but I do wish they were more easily pars-able.

"Stupidity is a very powerful factor in human affairs, never to be overlooked when assessing why humans do what they do."

Attempting to follow Hugh Fitzgerald's tradition of musical interludes, here is a new album which addresses this topic.

In a musical style reminiscent of Queen's "Bohemian Rhapsody" with a touch of "Grease" doo wop,

Weapon of Musical Defense presents their first album (8th track on album) with a song titled

Folly of Millions

How come multitudes followed nazis and communists down the road to hell? How come millions "do" jihad, commit unspeakable atrocities?

Song lyrics

Can it be
For most of us
Reason and reality
Are nothing but common consensus?

Just because
There’s collective agreement
Doesn’t mean
Wrong is right

You’re the ultimate judge
Of your own behaviour
You can’t just lay off the blame
To any and everyone

Nations have followed leaders
Down the road to hell
The people blindly obedient
But in their hearts
The people can tell.

But cosseted and comforted
In the security
Of the common consensus
Reason disappears

This could be
A folly of millions
The very fact of consensus makes
The folly appear as wisdom
The fiction as real.

Don’t believe
There’s always safety in numbers Shoot fatwa
The herds have been known
To stampede to catastrophe

Voices all in unison
The people manipulated and
Deceived
Cloaked as the will of the masses or God’s
Convinced in their destiny

Not isolated
Nor alone
Together Together
Blind to reality

Can it be
For most of us
Reason and reality
Are nothing but common consensus?

Medley Choruses:

The very fact of consensus
Makes the folly appear as wisdom
The fiction as real

Can it be
For most of us
Reason and reality
Are nothing but common consensus?

The very fact of consensus
Makes the folly appear as wisdom
The fiction as real

Blind to reality
Can’t you see?

[Instrumental break]

This could be
A folly of millions

[Instrumental break]

Can it be
For most of us
Reason and reality
Are nothing but common consensus?

Jdamn,

I agree with you some and disagree with you some. Since we may have to settle for that, I'll only repeat myself one more time.

Truth be told, they think they are superior, we think we are. We cannot metaphysically establish the superiority of one or the other. But, I doubt you'll convince the Muslim world to "put down their stupid fascist book." They do not think it is either.

We want to make sure that we survive! If I thought it was really obvious to all parties that our way of life was better - not just to us - I'd worry much less.

I agree with you about South Koreans. But I am not as sanguine about other cultures. There is not just black and white. There is a range. Mexicans have lots of babies and low education. That is persistent. It is not genetic, it is cultural. That statement is not racist, it is culturist and statistically verifiable.

As a culturist, I make distinctions about which cultures immigration helps and what hurts us. Islam is the worst. But we have a right to choose. All successful cultures practice culturism. We must also guide and protect our culture if we wish it to survive and thrive.

Human rights are what other nations use against us to undermine our sovereignty. You have no "human rights" outside of the West. Go distribute bibles in China or call Muhammad gay in Iran. They do not let us drive on their highways and sue us when we mention their high rape rate. We must drop the human rights concept. We must recognize that rights, democracy, freedom of speech, etc, are Western.

www.culturism.us

I think that we take human rights for granted and we overextend them. They're not free and we're not responsible for the human rights of everyone else. For instance, we don't deport illegal immigrants to lands where they could be mistreated upon reentry. That's crap. We should ship them out and not recognize their nation, and in doing so we would be providig adequate pressure upon that nation to straighten up and fly right. Our laws permit us to punish people for treason, so we don't have to let people exploit human rights domestically. And now our problem is that we let people exploit our human rights who have no respect for the human rights of anyone else. That shouldn't happen because all those people are seditious and should simply not have a home in any free-world nation.

We have no business dealing with any nation that does not uphold the UDHR. The point of the UN was to have an organization of free nations, i.e., those nations which are worthy of being dealt with, for the purpose of affecting international policy. Clearly that has run amok because of the insane belief that everyone's entitled to an opinion. They're not. They need to make themselves worthwhile before they get a say in anything on an international level.

And we can totally establish the superiority of one over the other: http://hdr.undp.org/en/statistics/

What do the top nations have in common? They hold regular, free elections and they uphold the UDHR to the letter.

Geert Wilders is just another racist to begi with

Islamfactor, while I admire your attempts at a Muslim multifaith forum with free speech (which yo u admit is rather rare), I'll believe Wilders is racist when you demonstrate to me how Islam is a race.

I'm sure you'll rise to the challenge.

Just a reminder: to hear Geert Wilders being interviewed (rather than perhaps paraphrased, interspersed with Taranto's comments):
http://atlasshrugs2000.typepad.com/atlas_shrugs/2008/09/the-atlas-inter.html
or
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GQZRWaqkGrE&feature=related

Oops - I read so fast I skipped past the link up at the top of this page to the JihadWatch interview with him. My bad.
While at it: thanks to Mr. Spencer for this to-the-point comment on Taranto's article. Our war is a war of words and we cannot be precise enough, esp. with the very people who seem to get the picture but then not yet quite.
Sadly, here in the NL, politicians still discuss the way Wilders brings his message rather than the message itself.

Uh, his best buddy is Ayaan Hirsi Ali and nobody's done more for Israel in Europe or for gays in the Netherlands than he has in years. How is he racist?

Excellent post. I love reading about Geert Wilders and my prayers are with him. I also do not think that all Dutch are just about 'consensus' either. My grandfather is an example to me and he was a full Dutchman - and he also made sure to say (since he lived through the wars I and II) that he was Holland Dutch - NOT German Dutch. But maybe we have the ones with the 'nads over here in the USA! I just hope that enough still are intact over there in Europe because we need our allies and we see how muslim allies are sooooo helpful... NOT!!!! They only want our money and will tell us anything we want to hear - and our government finally got tired of it, but until I see some action against the Saudis I won't believe that they 'get it'. And that action is stopping all buying of oil from them AND kicking them out of our schools, Universities, and elsewhere!

My grandfather had it right about McCarthy, he had it right about the communists infiltrating our schools, media, TV, government, etc. He had it right and many thought he was radical. And now that we see the fruits of the communist infiltration - Obama - we will see the fruits of the muslim infiltration if we do nothing as we, as a whole, did nothing about the communist infiltration soon. Obama might be a bit of both though - left wing idiocy and muslim idiotic appeasement with his background.

This should be a warning to us but people are still injecting their heads in the sand and they do it willingly, too often.







Not Peace But A Sword by Robert SpencerDid Muhammad Exist? The Muslim Brotherhood in America, by Robert SpencerIslamophobia: Thoughtcrime of the Totalitarian FutureMuslim Persecution of Christians, by Robert Spencer Obama and IslamThe Ground Zero Mosque: Second Wave of the 9/11 Attacks
The Complete Infidel’s Guide to the Koran


Stealth Jihad


The Politically Incorrect Guide to Islam


The Truth About Muhammad


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“One of the nation's most notorious Islamophobes.”
Hamas-linked CAIR

"Geller and Spencer are probably the most important propagandizing Islamophobes in the world. These people's voices speak very loudly — not just here in the United States but overseas."
Heidi Beirach, Southern Poverty Law Center

“Satanic ignoramus.”
Khaleel Mohammed

“The Likud anti-Christ.”
Dar al-Hayat newspaper (Saudi Arabia)

“Zionist Crusader, missionary of hate, counter-Islam consultant.”
Al-Qaeda’s Adam Gadahn, “Azzam the American”



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