Logical consistency: that "uppity" characteristic most eschewed in dhimmis. "Religious leaders to discuss right of Christians to build churches in Muslim countries," by Nick Squires for the Telegraph, November 4:
The right of Christians to build churches in Islamic countries will be among the topics discussed at a ground-breaking summit between Muslim and Catholic leaders in the Vatican this week."Rebuild"? Apparently Pope Benedict singlehandedly destroyed "bridges" with the Islamic world (by, incidentally, quoting history). One would have thought those "bridges" were torched when Muhammad ordered the eviction of Christians and Jews from their Arabian homeland; or when verses were "revealed" to him commanding eternal warfare against Christians and Jews, until they are subjugated (9:29); or when Muslim armies swept through formerly Christian lands -- from Syria to Spain -- subjugating them and their Christian inhabitants. No, apparently the "bridges" have only recently been shaken up due to the Pope's comments.The unprecedented Catholic-Muslim forum has been convened to rebuild bridges between the two faiths after Pope Benedict XVI caused outrage by linking Islam with violence during a speech in 2006.
The Pope had to apologise for the speech in Regensburg, Germany, after quoting a medieval text which attacked some of the teachings of the Prophet Muhammed and implied that Islam was inherently violent.Read: We will show you that our religion is not violent by, in fact, behaving violently.His remarks, which he said were taken out of context and did not represent his opinion, sparked violence in Muslim countries.
The Muslim delegation arrived for the three day forum on Monday and will meet the Pontiff on Thursday.Indeed, reciprocity should be a prerequisite for even having talks.The leader of the Catholic delegation, Cardinal Jean-Louis Tauran, said Muslims were allowed to build mosques in Christian countries so it was only right that Islamic nations should reciprocate by allowing the construction of churches.
"If Muslims have places of worship in Europe then it is normal that the reverse should be true in societies where Muslims are the majority," Cardinal Tauran told the French Catholic newspaper La Croix.
An agreement on reciprocity was not a precondition for the talks, however, which would offer "real glimmers of hope" and open "a new chapter in the long history" of dialogue between the two faiths, he added.
In response to the anger prompted by the Pope's Regensburg address, 138 Muslim scholars and religious leaders last year wrote him a letter warning that the future of the planet depended on Muslims and Christians making peace with each other.Which days are reserved for Islamic themes, such as "Jihad in the path of Allah?"The delegation of 24 Muslim leaders is led by the Grand Mufti of Bosnia, Mustafa Ceric, and includes an Iranian ayatollah and an American woman academic specialising in Islamic studies.
British members of the delegation include Dr Anas Al-Shaikh-Ali, chairman of the UK Association of Muslim Social Scientists, and Sheikh Dr Abdal Hakim Murad Winter, lecturer in Islamic studies at Cambridge University.
The closed-door discussions at the Vatican will focus on Tuesday on "God's love" and Wednesday on "loving your neighbour," a theme that touches on two Vatican priorities, human rights and religious freedom.
The talks will also try to identify the reasons for the tension between Christianity and Islam, a senior Vatican figure said.Succinct answer: the latter's doctrinal need to subjugate the world. That, incidentally, is the problem Islam also has with Judaism, Hinduism, Buddhism, and so on.
"It would be interesting to see whether these tensions are shaped by ideological, political ... and exploitative factors on both sides, rather than by actual differences," said Pier Luigi Celata, the Secretary of the Pontifical Council for Inter-religious Dialogue.The summit follows an interfaith conference in Cambridge last month and a meeting between the Archbishop of Canterbury, Dr Rowan Williams, and the Grand Mufti of Egypt, Ali Gomaa, in which they agreed to strengthen dialogue between Islamic and Christian universities.
"Sheikh Dr Abdal Hakim Murad Winter, lecturer in Islamic studies at Cambridge University."
-- from the article above
That's Tim Winter, or was until he converted to Islam, and he still uses "Tim Winter" when he is reviewing in the TLS or otherwise wishing to disguise, or at least not draw attention to, the fact that he's a convert (revert, New Muslim).
"If Muslims have places of worship in Europe then it is normal that the reverse should be true in societies where Muslims are the majority,"
How racist. and Islamophobic.
Umar is not going to like this when he hears about it...
This would be great retort in a argument with Muslims who expound on the openness and tolerance of Islam like those made by American converts(usually wannabe Sufis).
A retort like this:
'If Islam is so tolerant then why do they make it illegal at the point of death to open a Church in a Islamic country?'.
It's not what Magdi Allam would have wanted, or still hopes will be forthcoming. But it's better than nothing. And nothing -- no protest at all -- is what one used to get from the Vatican, when Archibishop Michael Fitzgerald was in charge of Catholic relations-cum-outreach to Muslims.
whats with these traitors who convert to this religion , and how can someone change his name , to me it would be worse than having both legs cut off
waltc,
Unfortunately that won't work with the Mohammedans. Their answer will be one of the following responses:
1) "Saudia Arabia is not implementing Sharia Law correctly and this is why there are no churches allowed." - ignoring the fact that under Sharia law, no churches would be allowed, since dhimmis are not allowed to build or repair churches.
2) "There is no need, because other faiths don't need places or worship like the Muslims require." How do we know that? Well, because none have been built so far!
3) "To give away land for religious purposes for other faiths would be unfair to the majority of the Saudi Arabian people." And if that didn't work, claim that churches would provide a disquiet to the local population, decrease their land values, poison their wells, provide breeding ground for vermin, et cetera.
4) "We'll talk about these issues when Muslims have full access to Mezquita de Córdoba." And after the mosque built inside the cathedral is taken over again by Mohammedans while excluding all others, talks will continue, and continue and continue et cetera et cetera.
5) "Islam is the most tolerant religion - stop criticising Islam because it does so much for the poor and needy and promotes justice all around the world." Look, look at my right hand - see nothing at all in it. Ignore what my other hand is doing!
6) "Allah told Muhammed that it should be like this: Allah knows best." QED.
In response to the anger prompted by the Pope's Regensburg address, 138 Muslim scholars and religious leaders last year wrote him a letter warning that the future of the planet depended on Muslims and Christians making peace with each other.
The future of the planet depends on the Moslems making peace with other people. The Christians made peace a long time ago.
From the article:
"The summit follows an interfaith conference in Cambridge last month and a meeting between the Archbishop of Canterbury, Dr Rowan Williams, and the Grand Mufti of Egypt, Ali Gomaa, in which they agreed to strengthen dialogue between Islamic and Christian universities."
I wonder whether Archbishop Rowan Williams knows that Ali Gomaa subscribes to the Blood Libel against the Jews?
For that alone, no decent Christian, lay or cleric, should even be found in the same room as Ali Gomaa.
From MEMRI and the jihadwatch archives, 2006:
"ALI GOMAA preaches the Blood Libel against the Jews" in August 2006: http://www.jihadwatch.org/dhimmiwatch/archives/012754.php
http://memri.org/bin/latestnews.cgi?ID=SD125506
(August 18 2006: MEMRI special dispatch series no. 1255.
…"These lies have exposed the true and hideous face of the blood-suckers who were described by Filmange in his book The Treasure Hidden in the Talmudic Laws [sic], which tells how [the Jews] planned [to prepare] a matzo [unleavened Passover bread] using human blood…”.
Archbishop Rowan Williams: SHAME on you for having anything to do with this despicable antisemite, this vicious Jew-hater.
Got to love the irony:
The Pope said Islam is violent so the Muslims go out and kill to prove him wrong!
I will find the building of mosques to be tolerable once 100 years have passed since a single terrorist act has been carried out in the name of Islam, since any non-Muslim place of worship has so much as been threatened worldwide, since no mosque has been a convenient hiding place for terrorists, since preaching against unbelievers has been carried out in a mosque, and since a sigle mosque has proven to be a sleeper cell, but not before Muslims hand back and rebuild with their own money every single place of worship they have ever taken, ransacked, desecrated, destroyed, or not allowed to be maintained, starting with Abu Deir Fana, and once Saudi Arabia, Pakistan, and Iran are covered with as many churches and temples as they are with sleeper cells.
Of course, I believe that Islam will be over and done with in 100 years, but we need to stop building sleeper cells and giving imams jobs in the Free World.
it would very nice but it written in stone. also moslems can destory any church/house of any religionous group they disapprove of.
it would very nice but it written in stone. also moslems can destory any church/house of any religionous group they disapprove of.
Self-serving traitors, every last one of them, they should be telling their congregations as to why no churches are allowed.
We will never know
http://www.newsday.com/news/local/wire/newyork/ny-bc-ny--church-fire1030oct30,0,3991013.story
http://news.bostonherald.com/news/regional/view/2008_11_05_Investigators_seek_cause_of_Mass__church_fire/srvc=home&position=recent
http://www.newsday.com/news/local/wire/newyork/ny-bc-ny--church-fire1030oct30,0,3991013.story
And two more
http://www.kentucky.com/471/story/568061.html
Now over the same period only one mosque has bee destroyed
A historic mosque dedicated to an Islamic saint in Magamboda in Matale was destroyed by a goons yesterday.
Presidential Advisor A. H. M. Azwer told the Daily Mirror that this mosque had been registered with theWakhuf Board as a historic shrine.
A team of top government officials led by the Western Province Governor Alavi Mowlana and Mr. Azwer himself visited the area and inspected the damages.
Mr. Mowlana commenting on the incident said the shrine had been in existence for over 150 years. He said a group funded by a foreign country is behind the attack. This group had inflicted violence in the area previously on several occasions as well
He said this is a result of a conflict between two Islamic sects.
I just love the headline
Ancient mosque destroyed by goons
http://www.dailymirror.lk/DM_BLOG/Sections/frmNewsDetailView.aspx?ARTID=31041
A mosque is not the same as a church. If the west had any brains, it would ban the building of any mosque. The mosque has a political function - it is an outpost of the jihad.
tanstaafl
Yes It is ... not a place to pray but a place to PLOT many real moderate Muslims don't even put their feet in a mosque.
Building of mosques should be prevented In Tennessee one mosque was recently burned to the ground
Donations from Christian Churches poured.....
Go figure. Ignorance is the main reason and political correctness is the second.
and you must also add a pinch of fear..... I heard the other day a jewish couple saying"don't talk about Muslims , if you start talking against Muslims , they are going to start talking about Jews"
The Cardinal's words are for us infidels. Clearly one does not offer up logic to those who have no taste for it.
It would have been better to point out how that policy reveals a different attitude--even a fear--that impels them to cling tightly to the security blanket of sameness, wrapped around them.
I don't believe the Pope apologized for his remarks at Regensburg. He said he was sorry that people were upset by them, and that causing such upset was not his intention, but he didn't apologize for saying what he said.
Once again, diplomacy is paramount. Robert's observations on the real reason that "bridges" between Islam and Christianity have been damaged are true...and inadmissable. If you want communication, you just have to bite the bullet and set such things aside.
If you're a Pope or Church leader, that is. No reason why a scholar can't keep the truth on the table.
Say, anyone consider it bridgeburning when Catholic clergy get killed like Father Ragheed Ganni?
Nah, it is just the big bad Pope of Rome who burs bridges with speeches.
Killing our faithful and their beloved clergy?
All in a hard day's work I guess!
Say, anyone consider it bridgeburning when Catholic clergy get killed like Father Ragheed Ganni?
Nah, it is just the big bad Pope of Rome who burs bridges with speeches.
Killing our faithful and their beloved clergy?
All in a hard day's work I guess!