Walid Phares discusses one serious challenge the Obama administration could face:
As the transition teams are working on updating the President elect and his national security advisors on the several challenges awaiting the new Administration, the threat environment for the near and medium future is widening as new strategic menaces are projected. One of these threats may affect nationals security planning for years to come.Over the past seven months I have been interacting with US Homeland Security and European defense officials and experts on a the potential next threat to the West, more particularly against mainland America. The signature of that strategic menace is EMP: Electro Magnetic Pulse; a weapon of the future, already available in design, construction and possible deployment. As eyes are focused on the Iranian nuclear threat, and as we began recently to understand that the missile advances are as important then the fissile material development, attention is now being drawn by private sector projects and some in the defense world to what can cause a wider circle of damages and thus more deterrence against US national security.
In short, and I borrow from the Project "Shield America" an electromagnetic pulse (EMP) attack could be triggered by a nuclear warhead detonated at high altitude over America. The resulting blast would create an EMP, a shockwave that could "cripple military and civilian communications, power, transportation, water, food, and other infrastructure." Even if a high-altitude EMP kills nobody at first, it would paralyze a large section of the United States. The lingering practical and economic effects would take anywhere from hours to years to resolve: when secondary effects are considered, an EMP could be even deadlier than a direct nuclear strike against the mainland. Indeed, Rep. Roscoe Bartlett has written: "Where the terrorist airliner attacks of 9/11 killed thousands, a terrorist EMP attack could indirectly kill millions and conceivably cause the permanent collapse of our entire society."By realizing how fundamental and irreversible is the reliance of the United States on electronics for every aspect of its citizens' lives, we can also realize how this makes the U.S. vulnerable to an emerging threat. Which brings about the issue of identifying the origination point of such a menace. Many indicators direct us to Iran. In previous articles on CTB and other outlets I have focused on the "missiles threat" as a dossier by itself independently from the "Nuclear" file for a rational consideration: Missiles can be used to deliver nuclear weapons, but also "other weapons" including chemical and biological. In the case of Hezbollah's mini war of July 2006 with Israel, large rockets and small missiles were conceived as classical but were strategically aimed at chemical sites as well. Hence the missile threat is diverse. In the case of the EMP weapon system, we need to look at Iran's missiles capability also from the perspective of delivering a blow, not just to Israel or US and Western targets in the region, but also across large bodies of water.
Geopolitical projections, including developments which may take place in Iraq and Afghanistan, tell us that Iran may find itself free from constraints to equip itself with long range missiles able to reach US mainland at some point in the near future, not only from mainland Iran, but also from other locations closer to America, including at the hands of terrorist forces.
As a result of these geopolitical consideration I believe it is pressing for the defense and counter terrorism community to increase the level of efforts in this emerging field of threat and begin a public awareness campaign to educate citizens in this regard.
**************
Dr Walid Phares is the Director of Future Terrorism Project at the Foundation for the Defense of Democracies. He is the author of The Confrontation: Winning the War against Future Jihad
I am waiting to see which world leaders the President Elect chooses to meet first. The leaders of Russia, Iran and Hamas are lining up to meet him. I hope he will consult with the European Union before he makes deals with our "allies" in Russia and China.
The weapon of the future may already be here. It is not EMP...Google SCALAR...
This is absurd. It sounds just like the old Y2K bug scare.
Even if terrorists did have and use this Sci-Fi weapon, all it would mean is a few suburbs would have to buy replacements for all their consumer goods, and perhaps replacement chips for a few things. The high tech gadgets that people use are normally replaced every few years anyway.
Trying to make an EMP blast that would cover the entire USA is stupid. The radiation would be so diluted over such a large area that it would have almost no effect.
Iran and Hezbollah don't have this kind of technological capability, and they don't have anything like the amount of political power to get away with an attack like this. They would be annihilated as soon as they did it. So they have no reason to do it.
In short, and I borrow from the Project "Shield America" an electromagnetic pulse (EMP) attack could be triggered by a nuclear warhead detonated at high altitude over America.
NUCLEAR warhead.
Why do people try to separate a nuclear threat from an EMP? Both have the same point of origin: a nuclear bomb. A nuclear threat is a nuclear threat is a nuclear threat.
"an EMP could be even deadlier than a direct nuclear strike against the mainland"
What is he talking about? An EMP IS a direct nuclear strike against the mainland. US territory is more than terra firma. It includes our airspace. Just like a suitcase bomb, or a missile - the delivery system doesn't matter. What it hits doesn't matter. It requires a NUCLEAR DEVICE! (or doesn't it?)
What goes around comes around. If the US can be crippled, so can Iran. So can Russia. So can China. So can Europe. Anyone who thinks the US won't be the only country hit is fooling himself.
People in Asia need to sit up and take notice. Paralyze the US and you can sell all your products to yourselves. I hope China's consumer market is growing. Is the loss of America as a customer worth selling all that missile technology to Iran? What makes China or Russia or Europe think they can't be hit? They're a lot closer to Iran than we are.
What if the US IS paralyzed and the Dow shuts down? What does that do to world markets? People around the world can be hurt by Iran. What will it take for them to realize this?
In order to be proactive defensively, it is important that we try to put ourselves in the shoes of those who would like to harm us and try to think of what they could do. Instead, we tend to just look backwards and try to understand future threats that need to be defended against based only on past attacks and attempts. So, this article is a good start at thinking outside the box, just as OBL, the Iranian mullahs, rogue Pakistanis, or other potential jihadists are no doubt thinking outside the box. WWOBLD?
To go further out of the box, consider this: If an attack such as this were to be launched, it would not need to be launched with any sort of pinpoint accuracy. Further, it would not be smart for Iran or any other nation to launch such an attack from their own soil. Launching such an attack from a rusty ship flying under a flag of convenience would be the obvious method of attack for several reasons: (1) The attacker would not require as much missile range and could launch the attack with existing technology. (2) The attacker might hope to escape any consequence from the attack. (The attacked country (whether USA, England, or other) would have great difficulty figuring out who to retaliate against and might decide it would be unfair and risky to launch massive retaliations against every conceivable state that may have had something to do with the attack in the absence of evidence of who was involved and in the absence of evidence that such retaliation would in fact eliminate future similar threats.)
One must also wonder what response the U.S. would make to such an attack, especially if the attack was followed by demands that would take us down the road towards submission to Islamic authority in return for promises of security. Would the U.S. agree to allow Sharia courts to operate on its soil, agree to pay a jizya tax, and agree to open our doors to more Islamic immigration in return for security promises in the face of such an attack? Is this the national security challenge that Joe Biden promised us would occur shortly into the new administration?
The catastrophic devastation of the U.S. economy would cause the collapse of China's economy, Europe's, Russia's and the immense oil wealth that has fueled the immensely successful long-term Jihad would be a thing of the past. The Islamic world which has survived leaching off the West would be plunged into such poverty and chaos that Somali type warlords would be the only 'government' and the highest form of organization would be the 'tribe'. Iran itself would break apart in a dozen pieces.
I've always felt that Islam wants to build its worldwide Caliphate in the shell of Western political organization once it has been gutted thoroughly. And said gutting is proceeding marvelously.
One must also wonder what response the U.S. would make to such an attack, especially if the attack was followed by demands that would take us down the road towards submission to Islamic authority in return for promises of security.
Karl2,
Been there, done that. Wasn't the 9/11 attack followed by demands that Bush convert to Islam? How many times do we have to be beaten over the head before we get the message?
Would the U.S. agree to allow Sharia courts to operate on its soil, agree to pay a jizya tax, and agree to open our doors to more Islamic immigration in return for security promises in the face of such an attack?
Then we are fools. Europe made a similar bargain with its Muslim citizens, didn't it? Look at London and Paris now.
from somewhere out of the blue: Trying to make an EMP blast that would cover the entire USA is stupid. The radiation would be so diluted over such a large area that it would have almost no effect.
The purpose of an EMP is not to radiate, destroy buildings or cook people. It just fries everything electronic so that nothing works. Nothing...Not trains, not planes, not automobiles. No lights, no water pumping, no tv, no refrigeration, no gas, no food...Yet, not killing off the population...At least not immediately...
"a few suburbs would have to buy replacements for all their consumer goods, and perhaps replacement chips for a few things...Trying to make an EMP blast that would cover the entire USA is stupid. The radiation would be so diluted over such a large area that it would have almost no effect."
Posted above
http://glasstone.blogspot.com/2006/03/emp-radiation-from-nuclear-space.html
JW readers may recall an extended discussion on this topic at this site some months ago. It was pointed out that, while a serious threat, EMP is not the principal problem of a high altitude nuclear burst. Rather, the most serious effects from such an event result from a substantial enhancement of the earth's radiation belts (the Van Allen belts). The radiation belts are home to very energetic particles which, like x-rays, can seriously degrade electronic components. Modern micro/nano-electronic circuits are the most vulnerable to these effects.
The end result of a high altitude burst, occurring anywhere in the world, would be a rapid (weeks to months) degradation of the electronic subsystems of every satellite in low/medium earth orbit. This would include the GPS network, surveillance satellites, all the communications satellites, including those upon which our military depends, etc. There is no known defense against this short of preventing a launch or destroying a missile in its boost phase. One of DARPA's highest priority research projects is to find ways to remediate these effects in the event it happens.
Spot on, you were part of that discussion. Would you care to comment?
The Teller–Ulam design is a nuclear weapon design which is used in megaton-range thermonuclear weapons...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydrogen_bomb
Other countries
The People's Republic of China detonated its first device using a Teller–Ulam design June 1967 ("Test No. 6"), a mere 32 months after detonating its first fission weapon (the shortest fission-to-fusion development yet known), with a yield of 3.31 Mt. Little is known about the Chinese thermonuclear program.
Very little is known about the French development of the Teller–Ulam design beyond the fact that they detonated a 2.6 Mt device in the "Canopus" test in August 1968.
India's first Nuclear test occurred on May 18, 1974 then on May 11, 1998, India detonated a hydrogen bomb in its Operation Shakti tests ("Shakti 1", specifically), though seismographic readings have led many non-Indian experts to conclude that this is unlikely, or at least it was unlikely to have been a success as claimed, because of its low yield (claimed to be around 45 kt, though outside experts estimate it at around 30 kt, both extremely low for a successful thermonuclear detonation).[11]
Israel is alleged to possess thermonuclear weapons of the Teller-Ulam design, but is not known to have tested any.
Pakistan's nuclear tests were relatively low yield and do not appear to have included a thermonuclear weapon.
North Korea's single nuclear test was relatively low yield and does not appear to have been of a thermonuclear weapon design.
It's not a sci-fi weapon. They've been in existence for at least 50 years. All it is is a modified nuclear device that generates an enormous electromagnetic field in the ionosphere.
The weapon of the future may already be here. It is not EMP...Google SCALAR...
Posted by: duh_swami
I note that Wiki puts "scalar physics" in the category of pseudo-science; i.e. along side Velikovsky's colliding worlds and von Daniken's ancient aliens. It notes that none of the scalar energy claims has been supported by independent experiments or observations.
Concerned Citizen,
Depending on how and where it was detonated, the EMP would surely affect Canada and Mexico as well, at least communities near the border.
The aloha state would be unaffected. They'd be cut off from most of what's happening on the mainland but life would go on.
Eastview,
Wouldn't satellites belonging to other countries also be wiped out if their orbit carried them anywhere near the US?
Everyone in government focuses on Iran's threat to the US but it's really a global threat and it seems no one wants to admit that.
There is nothing new about this technology and there is nothing make believe about it either; this was the scenario that dates back to the early 1960's when the US and the USSR nearly came to a nuclear exchange.
Believe it -- I assure you, it is true -- and is nothing like the Y2k bug.
BTW -- the military will be fine for the most part -- the civilian sectors and the power grids are another story.
So if it can wipe out all our electronics, it appears that that would knock out any response mechanism, even any ability to identify its source. It would apparently leave the country wide open for further attack and even invasion. So what can we expect from our new leader who will talk with the terrorists without precondition. Suppose they talk first with an EMP?
I understand that the price of ammo has gone up 25% since November 4th. Sounds like the Red States are getting ready, possibly for this, possibly in preparation for other defensive needs.
Comical and absurd.
All Iran needs to disable the U.S. is about 100 Hezbollah terrorists with HE who target our power and communications grids.
Think simple, think dirty. This high tech crap is for stupid westerners who love to over complicate approaches to neutralizing the enemy.
As far as the EMP goes, when did Iran graduate from making Atomic bombs to hydrogen ones mounted on ICBM class missiles?
"Wouldn't satellites belonging to other countries also be wiped out if their orbit carried them anywhere near the US?"
Posted by: PMK
Exactly, except the effects aren't just confined to the vicinity of the U.S. The radiation belts encircle the earth, so the effects are global. Now one would be spared. The nations affected most, however, would be the ones most heavily dependent on this high tech infrastructure, and the U.S. is at the top of the list.
On the other hand, if you live in a cave in Afghanistan (or are Amish) you wouldn't even know anything was amiss.
This is absurd. It sounds just like the old Y2K bug scare.
NeverAMuslim
I under stand your surprise but unfortunately the EMP is real. This is one more thing our politicians forgot to tell us anything about. As Eastview has said, there are two things here. As Eastview pointed out, you have the radiation resulting from the high altitude nuke burst circling the earth taking out most of the satellites.
The second thing is three massively powerful electromagnetical pulses. At a nominal detonation altitude of 150-300 miles, the entire USA would be within the devastation zone. The power grid, telecomunications, internet, computers, and depending on the power of the nuke, transportation vehicles would be disabled. We would not have enough parts and repairmen to fix everythingthing. We would all be back in the 1800's in our living arrangements.
These articles are the most authoritative available on the subject. Tests have been conducted up to 50 KV Magnetic field. Russia claims to have a 200 KV EMP device.
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2008/sep/02/invisible-nuclear-threat/
http://www.empcommission.org/docs/A2473-EMP_Commission-7MB.pdf
I have other specific information on the subject if you need more.
What if the US IS paralyzed and the Dow shuts down? What does that do to world markets? People around the world can be hurt by Iran. What will it take for them to realize this?
PMK
As you illustrate, any sane or reasonable country would never use the nuke EMP. That is why Russia talked themselves out of using one on us in 1998.
China says they have nuke EMP's but they are also sane and reasonable (using the word losely).
This article describes Russia's efforts to try to take us out once and for all.
http://cryptome.org/bartlett-060905.txt
Russia and China are sane but is Iran sane? That is the big question. I don't want to find out the hard way.
waltc, you're exactly right. If one is interested in causing damage in, for example, a port, then you certainly don't need an H-bomb. But the damage that can be caused by even a single high altitude nuclear burst goes beyond the proximate damage cause by the explosion.
Consider the extent to which the global economy has become dependent on satellites. Take GPS alone. All ships these days navigate using GPS, all the tanker fleets, all the container ships, and trucking fleets now use it to schedule their operations. Take out GPS and the effects on global shipping would be enormous. Airlines use it, both civilian and military.
Then there's the global financial system, which depends to some degree on reporting via satellite communications systems, e.g., all the major stock markets, in NY, London, Tokyo...all of them. Add the commodity exchanges (corn, gold, oil, ...). And then there's the foreign exchange (currency) markets, which every day dwarfs, by a factor of about 100, the dollar value of the global totality of stock transactions. So, if you think the current subprime meltdown is a headache, that's relatively minor compared to the impact of taking out even a small part of the satellite communications network.
The Iranians might decide that a high altitude demonstration would better serve their needs than physically trying to bring down the infrastructure of the West. But rationality isn't their strong suit, and they are every bit as susceptible to misjudgments as are our leaders. Given the stakes I wouldn't want to rely merely on their good will.
So if it can wipe out all our electronics, it appears that that would knock out any response mechanism, even any ability to identify its source. It would apparently leave the country wide open for further attack and even invasion
Jimmy Bones
All battlefield military systems are hardened against EMP. So our military systems would be intact for a response. However, the military uses commercial communications channels for 95% of their communications. So they would have some problems.
The real problem is that a terrorist country already lives in the 10th century and just maybe, they would like us to live that way too. Our political system would collapse if we were hit by a nuke EMP.
JW readers, please believe Eastview regarding the high altitude radiation effects on satellites and the problems resulting there of. It is not too difficult to send a nuke to high altitude and detonate it almost anywhere in the world.
An EMP is a little more difficult due to construction design and placement of nuke over the country.
Ebonystone...That's why I said 'may' have...
However I would not use Wiki as an authority;
From above: It notes that none of the scalar energy claims has been supported by independent experiments or observations.
Secret weaponry hardly ever is...
Try this...
U.S. Defense Secretary William Cohen
Warns about eco-terrorism using scalar electromagnetic weapons
"Others [terrorists] are engaging even in an eco-type of terrorism whereby they can alter the climate, set off earthquakes, volcanoes remotely through the use of electromagnetic waves... So there are plenty of ingenious minds out there that are at work finding ways in which they can wreak terror upon other nations...It's real, and that's the reason why we have to intensifour [counter terrorism] efforts." - Defense Secretary William Cohen, 1997
Try also this:
http://www.prahlad.org/pub/bearden/scalar_wars.htm
I don't vouch for any of this but it is interesting reading...
Russia and China are sane but is Iran sane? That is the big question. I don't want to find out the hard way.
Posted by: Spot on
But ARE Russia and China sane? They are among Iran's major traders. China is helping Iran with rocketry. I don't know what Russia is doing but given their need to BE somebody, it can't be good.
None of the major industrial powers should be selling anything but food to Iran. No computers, no weapons, nothing.
There is something like 1000 commercial aircraft in US airspace at any given time. They would drop from the skies like dead Ducks, burning everything they land on. It us unlikely any Firemen could respond.
It could be the dead of winter where you're two flushes away from having a real problem on your hands. In a 20 story high rise, where nothing works, except your old Timex windup.
MAD loses it's value when the adversary is MAD.
You cannot discount any option open to your adversary when they are bent on harming you.
one may need a policy of collective guilt as a means of responding to an attack of this nature.
An event like this would have a long term effect of evening the odds. Even if the perpetrator were vaporised. We would still be trying to figure out how to put the fires out.
Do we respond in kind and turn everyones lights out? Praying they don't start hitting the Ground before they go off.
Will leadership favor making us dirt farmers or charcoal brickets?
Posted by Spot on:
JW readers, please believe Eastview regarding the high altitude radiation effects on satellites and the problems resulting there of. It is not too difficult to send a nuke to high altitude and detonate it almost anywhere in the world.
It's all too true.
An EMP is a little more difficult due to construction design and placement of nuke over the country.
If the assumption is that you were launching from Iran; the launch direction, weapon mass, and the relatively low performance of Iranian boosters (Scud derivatives) all work to limit their practicality as a weapons against the US. However, the same system launched from a cargo ship just off shore, has great capability to produce damaging EMP effects because the boosters can use more of their available energy lofting the device to altitude rather than sending it down range. However, all of these points may soon be mute since Iranian/Korean booster technology is not standing still.
Well OK, the points would be moot, not mute.
Yes the assumption is .... I suppose it NEVER would occur to the iranians (or anyone else for that matter) to put such a device on a cargo flight and ... well, who needs a ballistic missle anyway?
If you ever took a mental head count of all the "asians" working in places like DoD installations and wondered where their personal loyalities were -- you're imagination might wander to the absurd conclusion that they were stealing nuclear secrets for nefarious purposes.
But of course, that is all nonesense and paranoid bigotry.
After all, they have only been doing jobs that Americans didn't want or were too stupid to do.
Hey, it's ALL a myth! There are no such things as nuclear weapons and Hiroshima and Nagasaki were staged just like the landing of Apollo 11 on the moon.
Iran and N. Korean don't have nukes anymore than Russia does. Who would be so stupid as to think otherwise?
Yup, we're too smart to fall for this EMP nonesense. Can't happen!
Oh well, back to sleep.
One reason not to remove analog devices, but retain them as a redundant second line of defense.
But, of course, like scrapping Morse code or analog TV's, we are gambling our security on the most fragile digital structures.
Like firing the majority of Sky Marshalls before 9/11, ~sure to bring disaster.
Let me repeat that, for our technocrats, our Congress, and new President:
SURE TO BRING DISASTER.
(Bookmark this.)
That country can be destroyed by a vigilante bio attack. If political system collapses, then there will be nothing that can prevent the militias in places like Idaho to mount a retaliatory biological attack against an Islamic country.
When you live like the 10th century, you are vulnerable to plague like the 10th century. The shantytowns of Peshawar can't be defended against a bio attack, they are completely vulnerable. Look up Richard Fernandez's Belmont Club blog's "the Fourth Conjecture".
From above: It notes that none of the scalar energy claims has been supported by independent experiments or observations.
Secret weaponry hardly ever is...
Posted by: duh_swami
Like the atomic bomb? Or the jet fighter? Or radar? The U.S. spent billions developing the bomb precisely because it was supported by experiment and observation.
Don't rely on Wiki; check out the Skeptical Inquirer article on Bearden and "vacuum energy" in the Jan-Feb 2007 issue. It's on-line at their website. Sorry, but my internet skills are not up to providing a link.
In the article, Martin Gardner (a Scientific American editor for umpteen years) notes that Bearden's Ph.D. is for "life experience" and was awarded by Trinity University, which operates out of a P.O. Box in Sioux Falls, SD.
Gardner adds: "The back cover calls the book 'the definitive energy book of the twenty-first century.' In my opinion it is destined to be the greatest work of outlandish science in both this and the previous century."
Gardner also notes that Bearden uses 50 pages of the book to tell about how "they" are out to get him, and keep his great discoveries out of public knowledge.
ebonystone...I think I clarified that I don't vouch for any of it...
As far as known secret weapons, I guess they are not secret anymore...what about the hundreds that are secret? Maybe you think the US has no secret weapons...I read where the US is 150 years ahead in weaponry technology...I bet none of that has been 'independently' substantiated and observed...
Wiki is not known to be very credible...I never use it.
From above...Like the atomic bomb? Or the jet fighter? Or radar? The U.S. spent billions developing the bomb precisely because it was supported by experiment and observation.
True...But this time you left off the word 'independent'.
There are no 'independent' examinations or experiments with military equipment. If the Military hires outside contractors, they are not independent. No outside or 'independent' people worked on any of the weapons you listed...They all worked for 'The Company'...There is nothing 'independent' about them...
As far as scalar weapons is concerned, your argument is not with me or Beardan even...It's with Tesla...The whole thing was his idea...fool, what did he know???
Gardner also notes that Bearden uses 50 pages of the book to tell about how "they" are out to get him, and keep his great discoveries out of public knowledge.
Posted by: ebonystone
I guess you didn't read it yourself and are just taking this guy Gardners word for it...However murdering people with grand and workable ideas is not new.
Stanly Meyer for instance working on technology I am also working on, developed a car that ran efficiently on water only, and was a cheap conversion...he was murdered...there are others, and tales of threats made against others with great and workable ideas...I'm not defending Beardan, but if he has a real invention somewhere, there may actually be threats or attempts on his life...
Just because you are a paranoid schizophrenic doesn't mean that they are NOT out to get you!
Maybe, they are?
Just because you are a paranoid schizophrenic doesn't mean that they are NOT out to get you!
Maybe, they are?
Posted by: witness
I heard a lot of that when I worked in the mental business...most of the time that's delusional content, but sometimes someone really is out to get them...One instance...The family of an oriental patient was going to come to the unit,and pick him up for a picnic lunch...I told him they would be over to get him in a few minutes...He looked at me suspiciously and said...'What do you mean...'get' me'...?? He went out with them and was murdered...
G-d what a bunch of panic mongers. Stop being conned.
Think about, First you give Iran, Hiroshima sized nukes to having large mega-tonnage H-bombs and ICBM delivery systems. This from a nation that had to photoshop missile launches. Please spare me.
These are Muslim's we're talking about, who can barely maintain their F-14's, not the Chinese or Russians who could make this really happen.
As I said previously you don't need EMP to cripple a western nation. All you need are a hundred or so terrorists with lots of HE. Target about 80 critical energy, communication and transport nodes(no I won't tell you where they are, but if you work in teleco, railroad or the energy trades you know where they are) and this country grinds to a halt.
The damage wouldn't be permanent but it would set us back years and tank the economy.
Don't worry about crap that more fit for SPECTRE or SMERSH.
From above" These are Muslim's we're talking about, who can barely maintain their F-14's, not the Chinese or Russians who could make this really happen.
Only one piece of advice...never underestimate your enemy...
I went into a liquor store with my hot headed nephew who proceeded to get a little hostile with the clerk over a price. The clerk was a huge 3-4 hundred pound black man, way over six feet, with a big ring in his ear...I got my nephew out of there and apologized for his behavior, and said he was basically harmless...The clerk said...'I never underestimate anybody'...
"These are Muslim's we're talking about, who can barely maintain their F-14's, not the Chinese or Russians who could make this really happen."
That's true, but they are also Persians, who were civilised when Arabs were still trying to figure out the difference between a camel's butt and a camel toe. It's also true that Mohammed's Hordes took over ancient Persia, but it's hard to argue with hundreds of thousands of sword-wielding fanatics on their way to Paradise.
Examine the Iranian tactic to prevent a repeat of the Osiraq bombing in 1981 and the al Kibar bombing in 2007. In both cases the IAF was able to destroy the entire projects in a single mission because both projects were built upon one site (target). Both the Iraqis and the Syrians were stupid to believe that those so threatened would not take appropriate action, especially since it was a slam-dunk, militarily. The IRI has decentralized its uranium centrifuges and its intended reactor site(s), placing both under mountains in caves hundreds of feet below the surface. To be successful, this decentralisation requires a much higher degree of organisation than is usually possible for Muslims, but not a big deal for Persians.
It is impossible for the present IAF to stop these projects with military force, and even for the US, an extremely difficult task both militarily and politically. Successful destruction of the Iranian nuclear weapons project would certainly require the use of nuclear weapons (H-Bombs), only they have the sufficient power to pierce and destroy these subterranean caverns. The IAF does not have the bomber capability (or H-Bombs) to carry out the necessary sustained campaign.
The IRI has put the US into the politically unenviable position of having to make a pre-emptive sustained nuclear first-strike. It is not likely that the US would do so because of European opinions and pre-existing agreements on nuclear weapons.
BTW, the IRI can keep those F-14's flying; they have qualified personnel, they only lack spare parts, and some of those they can manufacture themselves. This ability seems to be lacking in all other Islamic countries. The Russians and Chinese both would love to supply the IRI with brand-new fighter-interceptors and get some of that Iranian oil money.
So, would you rather be fighting Muslims or Persians?
I got my nephew out of there and apologized for his behavior, and said he was basically harmless...The clerk said...'I never underestimate anybody'...
Duh_swami
"Never underestimate your enemy" is an eternal truth learned on the street, usually the hard way. A real street fighter has leaarned this well.
We should all be wary of anyone who has the basic ability to make a nuke and launch a multistage missile. Especially when we are unsure of their sanity. To do otherwise is pure folly.
The nuke EMP is a well established, tested, and standardized weapon of mass destruction. It wreaks havoc and death on advanced countries only. Even on a bad day, when the enemy completely misses the target country but gets off an explosion at high altitude, most of the satellites go dead within weeks or months due to nuclear radiation. Last I heard, Iran is not an advanced country and has not been known for its sanity, by our definitions. The nuke EMP could be a win win for Iran. A nuke explosion anywhere in the world at high altitude could be a win win for Iran. To underestimate these facts is to be careless, and our government is well known for being careless these days.
I hope somebody somewhere is thinking about what non-EMP-sensitive redundant systems - for water, sewage, transport, communications - are still present throughout the western world; the 19th century technologies that lie beneath the surface, or hidden in corners, and those enthusiasts, those devotees of seemingly obsolete crafts and collectors and lovers of old machinery, here, there and everywhere, who still know where those technologies are and how they work and how to build and maintain them; people who could be worth their weight in gold.
And that ordinary citizens, too, are thinking about what it would take to hold their neighbourhoods together, and where they could get it from, how they could provide for it, if all the electronics and the electricity failed.
Water.
Sanitation - and burials.
Fuel.
Food.
Co-operation, Agreement, Reciprocity.
How about something simple like, protecting a battery operated Radio from being fried.
The threat of an EMP attack changes the whole notion of Civil Defense. Civil Defense held little interest when there is no care needed for Charcoal. Now you can experience the effects of the NYC blackout, only compounded by the loss of all transportation. With the compounding effects from complete loss of communications, compounded again by duration.
Communications, duration, season.
dumbledoresarmy and flowerknife_us
I have taken some basic precautions against EMP. Anyone can do this. First you need to drive an 8 foot electrician type grounding rod into the ground. Ground your home's copper water pipe to this grounding rod with #6 wire. Using the copper water pipes as a grounding buss, you can then ground many items in your house that can serve as a faraday shield. Metal filing cabinets, the body of a vehicle, etc. The more holes in the enclosure, the less effective it will be but anything metal helps and might work. Small radios and other similiar items can be stored in the filing cabinet(s). The EMP developes 50 KV or more on any wire above or below groung. This is what does the damage. From what I have read, the surge supressors available in the hardware store do not have the wattage to solve the problem.
I have a deep well and some food storage. And a propane generator to deliver emergency power.
All of this is no good if civil order is destroyed due to hunger and thirst. So, one would need guns and be prepared for anything. Having a lot of good neighbors and a church is the best hope for some kind of survival. Each be prepared and all work together. These are simple things that almost anyone can do but no one understands this stuff and so no one is prepared.
But remember, Eastview described the loss of satellites due to nuclear radiation from any high altitude nuke explosion almost anywhere in the world. Without satellites, we lose the internet which ruins our power grid, and we lose most communication. It would be almost as bad as an EMP as a result. The radiation stays in orbit for many years so satellites cannot be sent up to replace the bad ones.
This could be one hell of a problem for all concerned.
Wishful thinking and the dance of dhimmitude:
Obama and Ahmadinejad in Political Dance
http://abcnews.go.com/International/story?id=6223780&page=1
Spot on
Any guess as to how long the average power grid would be off. To run any of your grounded home appliances.
Any idea how long gas would be useful in something besides a duel use camp stove?
Recycled Soap Barrels from Car Washes, cleaned out and plumed for Potable water.
Posted by witness:
Yes the assumption is .... I suppose it NEVER would occur to the iranians (or anyone else for that matter) to put such a device on a cargo flight and ... well, who needs a ballistic missle anyway?
I was not dismissing the idea of an EMP attack. My point was: even though a direct attack from inside Iran is not possible at the moment, there are other ways to accomplish it.
Aircraft fly too low to be good platforms for wide area EMP attacks. An attack aimed at blast damage to a city is another matter.
Spot on said:
Sigh. Once again, people here are ignoring my earlier post about the extreme vulnerability of the Islamic Third World to a bio attack by private groups in the West. It is NOT a "win win" situation for Islamic countries like Iran if they used a nuclear EMP attack.
Look again "Spot on" and other people like him. Earlier I said:
"Sigh. Once again, people here are ignoring my earlier post about the extreme vulnerability of the Islamic Third World to a bio attack by private groups in the West. It is NOT a "win win" situation for Islamic countries like Iran if they used a nuclear EMP attack.
R.A.W.
R.A.W. is right about our country's ability and that of local militia's to launch a counter attack with bio weapons. Iran and other retro societies are very vulnerable to all sorts of modern weapons. Our submarines could kill them all. But at what price? Our society would be almost totally destroyed in the process.
As I have stated in earlier posts. The real question is whether or not Iran would be foolish enough to launch a nuke EMP attack. Only an insane country would do such a thing. But can anyone guarantee anyone else that Ahmadinejad and his Islamic friends are not insane (by our standards). Apparently military planners are unsure of this because otherwise we would have a M.A.D. policy in place with Iran.