"The interior security minister had prohibited the Herald from using the word 'Allah' in its articles, affirming that its use ' by non-Muslims could increase tension and create confusion among Muslims in the country'."
Funny how there's no concern about creating confusion the other way around. That is because, while Qur'an 29:46 says "And argue not with the People of the Scripture unless it be in (a way) that is better, save with such of them as do wrong; and say: We believe in that which hath been revealed unto us and revealed unto you; our Allah and your Allah is One, and unto Him we surrender," that line of discourse is meant to be part of a one-way conversation: Clearly, a non-Muslim would be forbidden under Islamic law from preaching to Muslims along those lines in favor of another religion.
Still, the excuse of "creating confusion" does not cast the Islamic councils' opinion of their own faithful in a good light: Are they that prone to confusion and apostasy? Apparently, that matter is one the scholars are willing to sacrifice for the sake of sticking it to the unbelievers.
An update on this story. "Islamic councils against Catholic magazine of Kuala Lumpur: forbidden to use the word 'Allah'," from Asia News, November 25:
Kuala Lumpur (AsiaNews) - The Islamic religious councils of seven Malaysian states and the Malaysian Chinese Muslim Association (MACMA) are turning to the federal court for the ban of the use of the word "Allah" in the weekly Catholic Herald. Muslim representatives from Terengganu, Penang, Selangor, Kedah, Johor, Malacca, and the Federal territory of Kuala Lumpur want the court to rule on whether the law relative to the case has been applied according to constitutional principles.
The Malaysian constitution guarantees full religious freedom for all confessions, but an ordinance from the interior security ministry issued in 1986 prohibits the use of the word "Allah" in publications of the non-Islamic communities. But the law has never been applied consistently. To complicate the case of the Herald, and of other non-Muslim magazines, there is also the fact that there are two parallel judicial systems in the country: one is federal-civil, regulated by the constitution, and the other is juridical-religious, which is supposed to apply only to Muslims and is regulated by Koranic law.
The affair of the magazine of Kuala Lumpur emerged in December of last year. The interior security minister had prohibited the Herald from using the word "Allah" in its articles, affirming that its use "by non-Muslims could increase tension and create confusion among Muslims in the country." The ban brought the risk of shutdown for the only Catholic newspaper in the country, which with its 12,000 copies and 50,000 readers is the only instrument of communication for the 850,000 faithful.
In the last few days of 2007, after the protests of the Catholic community, the interior security minister withdrew the injunction, but on January 5, 2008, the minister of Islamic affairs intervened in of the affair, upholding the ban. Claiming the right to use the word "Allah," the Herald then opted to take the legal route, and the archbishop of the diocese of Kuala Lumpur, Murphy Pakiam, took the government to court.
Today, the seven states and the MACMA have been admitted to the court to intervene in the dispute, and have been named as parties in the case in the revision of the procedure initiated by the archbishop of the capital. In the meantime, the Malaysian Gurdwaras Council (MGC), a Sikh group, has informed the court that it intends to present the attorney general's office with documentation that would exclude the Islamic councils from the debate.
According to the documentation from the MGC, a request to ban the use of the word "Allah" for non-Muslims was presented in Perak ten years ago. The prime minister at the time, Tun Dr Mahathir Mohamad, had communicated to the parties in the case that there was no cause for proceeding. Jagjit is now asking prime minister Datuk Seri Abdullah Ahmad Badawi to use the same approach in the case of the Herald.
Jagjit has asked the court to update the hearing with the request of the MGC. Judge Lau Bee Lan has established February 27 as the date for deciding whether to permit the parties to present a deposition as requested for judicial review.
Now let me get this straight. I, being an infidel, am expected to submit to a god whose name I cannot utter, follow instructions from this unnamed god in a language (Arabic) that I cannot understand and accept a guy who married a 6 year old and can never be depicted as the prophet of this virtually hidden god? I see-very interesting.
Conclusion-there are about a billion crazy people in this world and I choose to decline to be one of them.
Appalled,
Yup, seems to be a good summary of our (us infidels') problem.
Arab-supremacist cult? Sure is, and a billion+ people are crazy enough to believe it.
As a Roman Catholic, I am frustrated with our bishops holding unceasing "interfaith dialogues" with purveyors of jihad; bad shepherds Jesus warned us about chatting up the wolves who seek to devour the flock.
So, if we are talking BANS on speech, I would like to forbid the kumbaya katholic dhimmi dimwits from using the phrase "one of the great Abrahamic faiths" when referring to Islam. I bet Abraham would love such a ban as well. Talk about taking someone's name in vain and sending him spinning in his grave.
SIDEBAR: Mr. Spencer, I enjoyed the interview you did on CBN with Pat Robertson, but I wondered if EWTN (Catholic cable channel) has ever extended you an invite to discuss any of your books on their channel?
Bevc, imagine being Jewish and having not only your clergy, but your family and all your friends with their heads in the sand. No matter how many times you point out facts from history, things like how RFK was assassinated because of Islamic Judeophobia, no matter how many times you tell them to read Dr. Bostom's books, not only do they not listen, not only do they not get it, but they vote for Obama. It's like living in a crazy world, and Israel is almost as dhimmified. Yes, Muslims hate Christians, but they hate Jews RABIDLY. And Jews willingly refuse to get it.
My own mother, a now-retired, brilliant renaissance lawyer (she practiced several types of law) refuses to let go of the "Jerusalem is home to the 3 great Abrahamic faiths" meme, as if its meme-hood legitimized it somehow. How can she be so completely lacking logical faculties (not to mention historical knowledge!) and yet never have lost a case? It's amazing. It's like reality does not apply to Islam. She also once told me, when I was a kid, that the Ottoman Empire was run by the Moors, so there you go.
"As a Roman Catholic, I am frustrated with our bishops holding unceasing "interfaith dialogues" with purveyors of jihad; bad shepherds Jesus warned us about chatting up the wolves who seek to devour the flock."
Roman Catholics should rise up against their apostate clergy.
www.mostholyfamilymonastery.com
Islamic groups included as petitioners against Catholic weekly in dispute over use of the word "Allah"
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Yes, because God forbid--uh, so to speak--that anyone confuse the stern, irrational God of Islam with a loving Deity--just imagine the confusion!
Jdamn wrote:
My own mother, a now-retired, brilliant renaissance lawyer (she practiced several types of law) refuses to let go of the "Jerusalem is home to the 3 great Abrahamic faiths" meme, as if its meme-hood legitimized it somehow. How can she be so completely lacking logical faculties (not to mention historical knowledge!) and yet never have lost a case? It's amazing. It's like reality does not apply to Islam.
.................
Jdamn, I don't doubt your mother's intelligence. A lot of very bright people engage in magical thinking when something seems too painful to contemplate. I'm out here on the left coast, and I have have a lot of friends who are bright--even brilliant--who are in massive denial about the Jihad threat. They just don't want to hear about it, let alone have to contemplate solutions.
As a teenager I remember how surprised--shocked, even--I was when I first started to read about the rampant denial common in the US before WWII. There was a favorable, even fawning, article in National Geographic showing little apple-cheeked blond tots waving swastikas, and Hitler youth goose-stepping through the streets. I understand that no one in the late 1930s could be expected to know how bad things would get, but it was already clear to anyone paying the smallest amount of attention that the rise of Fascism in Europe was a troubling thing, and that its clearly stated goals should have been of great concern to all freedom-loving people.
But a lot of people willfully kept themselves in the dark until after German tanks rolled into Poland. Even this wasn't enough for a lot of people--the US wasn't fully committed to fighting the Axis until the attack on Pearl Harbor--years after the Fascists had shown their true colors.
"I would like to forbid the kumbaya katholic dhimmi dimwits from using the phrase "one of the great Abrahamic faiths" when referring to Islam."
Agreed. And our political leaders don't seem to know the actual story of Abraham, Sarah and Hagar, but it doesn't stop them from shooting off their mouths. Also, somehow the Muslims conveniently overlook the most important parts of this amazing story, where Abraham (presumably at Sarah's insistence), banished his slave woman Hagar and her son when Ishmael became abusive toward his little brother Isaac. The descendants of Ishmael, who subsequently became the Arabs, have had a chip on their shoulders about the descendants of Isaac (the Jews and Christians) ever since.
For those who might not know the story of Abraham, Ishmael and Isaac, here it is, from Genesis (From the Bible translation "The Message").
Genesis Chapter 16.
1-2 Sarai, Abram's wife, hadn't yet produced a child. She had an Egyptian maid named Hagar. Sarai said to Abram, "God has not seen fit to let me have a child. Sleep with my maid. Maybe I can get a family from her." Abram agreed to do what Sarai said.
3-4 So Sarai, Abram's wife, took her Egyptian maid Hagar and gave her to her husband Abram as a wife. Abram had been living ten years in Canaan when this took place. He slept with Hagar and she got pregnant. When Hagar learned she was pregnant, she looked down on her mistress.
5 Sarai told Abram, "It's all your fault that I'm suffering this abuse. I put my maid in bed with you and the minute she knows she's pregnant, she treats me like I'm nothing. May God decide which of us is right."
6 "You decide," said Abram. "Your maid is your business." Sarai was abusive to Hagar and Hagar ran away.
7-8 An angel of God found her beside a spring in the desert; it was the spring on the road to Shur. He said, "Hagar, maid of Sarai, what are you doing here?" She said, "I'm running away from Sarai my mistress."
9-12 The angel of God said, "Go back to your mistress. Put up with her abuse." He continued, "I'm going to give you a big family, children past counting. From this pregnancy, you'll get a son: Name him Ishmael; for God heard you, God answered you. He'll be a bucking bronco of a man, a real fighter, fighting and being fought,
Always stirring up trouble, always at odds with his family."
13 She answered God by name, praying to the God who spoke to her, "You're the God who sees me! "Yes! He saw me; and then I saw him!"
14 That's how that desert spring got named "God-Alive-Sees-Me Spring." That spring is still there, between Kadesh and Bered.
15-16 Hagar gave Abram a son. Abram named him Ishmael. Abram was eighty-six years old when Hagar gave him his son, Ishmael.
Genesis Chapter 17.
1-2 When Abram was ninety-nine years old, God showed up and said to him, "I am The Strong God, live entirely before me, live to the hilt! I'll make a covenant between us and I'll give you a huge family."
3-8 Overwhelmed, Abram fell flat on his face. Then God said to him, "This is my covenant with you: You'll be the father of many nations. Your name will no longer be Abram, but Abraham, meaning that 'I'm making you the father of many nations.' I'll make you a father of fathers—I'll make nations from you, kings will issue from you. I'm establishing my covenant between me and you, a covenant that includes your descendants, a covenant that goes on and on and on, a covenant that commits me to be your God and the God of your descendants. And I'm giving you and your descendants this land where you're now just camping, this whole country of Canaan, to own forever. And I'll be their God."
9-14 God continued to Abraham, "And you: You will honor my covenant, you and your descendants, generation after generation. This is the covenant that you are to honor, the covenant that pulls in all your descendants: Circumcise every male. Circumcise by cutting off the foreskin of the penis; it will be the sign of the covenant between us. Every male baby will be circumcised when he is eight days old, generation after generation—this includes house-born slaves and slaves bought from outsiders who are not blood kin. Make sure you circumcise both your own children and anyone brought in from the outside. That way my covenant will be cut into your body, a permanent mark of my permanent covenant. An uncircumcised male, one who has not had the foreskin of his penis cut off, will be cut off from his people—he has broken my covenant."
15-16 God continued speaking to Abraham, "And Sarai your wife: Don't call her Sarai any longer; call her Sarah. I'll bless her—yes! I'll give you a son by her! Oh, how I'll bless her! Nations will come from her; kings of nations will come from her."
17 Abraham fell flat on his face. And then he laughed, thinking, "Can a hundred-year-old man father a son? And can Sarah, at ninety years, have a baby?"
18 Recovering, Abraham said to God, "Oh, keep Ishmael alive and well before you!"
19 But God said, "That's not what I mean. Your wife, Sarah, will have a baby, a son. Name him Isaac (Laughter). I'll establish my covenant with him and his descendants, a covenant that lasts forever.
20-21 "And Ishmael? Yes, I heard your prayer for him. I'll also bless him; I'll make sure he has plenty of children—a huge family. He'll father twelve princes; I'll make him a great nation. But I'll establish my covenant with Isaac whom Sarah will give you about this time next year."
22 God finished speaking with Abraham and left.
23 Then Abraham took his son Ishmael and all his servants, whether houseborn or purchased—every male in his household—and circumcised them, cutting off their foreskins that very day, just as God had told him.
24-27 Abraham was ninety-nine years old when he was circumcised. His son Ishmael was thirteen years old when he was circumcised. Abraham and Ishmael were circumcised the same day together with all the servants of his household, those born there and those purchased from outsiders—all were circumcised with him.
Genesis Chapter 18.
1-2 God appeared to Abraham at the Oaks of Mamre while he was sitting at the entrance of his tent. It was the hottest part of the day. He looked up and saw three men standing. He ran from his tent to greet them and bowed before them.
3-5 He said, "Master, if it please you, stop for a while with your servant. I'll get some water so you can wash your feet. Rest under this tree. I'll get some food to refresh you on your way, since your travels have brought you across my path." They said, "Certainly. Go ahead."
6 Abraham hurried into the tent to Sarah. He said, "Hurry. Get three cups of our best flour; knead it and make bread."
7-8 Then Abraham ran to the cattle pen and picked out a nice plump calf and gave it to the servant who lost no time getting it ready. Then he got curds and milk, brought them with the calf that had been roasted, set the meal before the men, and stood there under the tree while they ate.
9 The men said to him, "Where is Sarah your wife?" He said, "In the tent."
10 One of them said, "I'm coming back about this time next year. When I arrive, your wife Sarah will have a son." Sarah was listening at the tent opening, just behind the man.
11-12 Abraham and Sarah were old by this time, very old. Sarah was far past the age for having babies. Sarah laughed within herself, "An old woman like me? Get pregnant? With this old man of a husband?"
13-14 God said to Abraham, "Why did Sarah laugh saying, 'Me? Have a baby? An old woman like me?' Is anything too hard for God? I'll be back about this time next year and Sarah will have a baby."
15 Sarah lied. She said, "I didn't laugh," because she was afraid. But he said, "Yes you did; you laughed."
16 When the men got up to leave, they set off for Sodom. Abraham walked with them to say good-bye.
17-19 Then God said, "Shall I keep back from Abraham what I'm about to do? Abraham is going to become a large and strong nation; all the nations of the world are going to find themselves blessed through him. Yes, I've settled on him as the one to train his children and future family to observe God's way of life, live kindly and generously and fairly, so that God can complete in Abraham what he promised him."
(There follows the story of Sodom and Gomorrah).
The story of Hagar and Ishmael picks up again in
Chapter 21.
1-4 God visited Sarah exactly as he said he would; God did to Sarah what he promised: Sarah became pregnant and gave Abraham a son in his old age, and at the very time God had set. Abraham named him Isaac. When his son was eight days old, Abraham circumcised him just as God had commanded.
5-6 Abraham was a hundred years old when his son Isaac was born. Sarah said, God has blessed me with laughter and all who get the news will laugh with me!
7 She also said, Whoever would have suggested to Abraham that Sarah would one day nurse a baby! Yet here I am! I've given the old man a son!
8 The baby grew and was weaned. Abraham threw a big party on the day Isaac was weaned.
9-10 One day Sarah saw the son that Hagar the Egyptian had borne to Abraham, poking fun at her son Isaac. She told Abraham, "Get rid of this slave woman and her son. No child of this slave is going to share inheritance with my son Isaac!"
11-13 The matter gave great pain to Abraham—after all, Ishmael was his son. But God spoke to Abraham, "Don't feel badly about the boy and your maid. Do whatever Sarah tells you. Your descendants will come through Isaac. Regarding your maid's son, be assured that I'll also develop a great nation from him—he's your son, too."
14-16 Abraham got up early the next morning, got some food together and a canteen of water for Hagar, put them on her back and sent her away with the child. She wandered off into the desert of Beersheba. When the water was gone, she left the child under a shrub and went off, fifty yards or so. She said, "I can't watch my son die." As she sat, she broke into sobs.
17-18 Meanwhile, God heard the boy crying. The angel of God called from Heaven to Hagar, "What's wrong, Hagar? Don't be afraid. God has heard the boy and knows the fix he's in. Up now; go get the boy. Hold him tight. I'm going to make of him a great nation."
So, that's the story. Chapter 21:9-10 is where Sarah kicks out Hagar and Ishmael.
Islam is the perfect system for appropriation -- forwards in claiming the whole world for Mohammad and his Allah, and backwards, in claiming all the great prophets in retrospect. Such hubris will be punished by the gods -- it always is.
Give me the King James Bible any day, Eastview, archaic as it may sound. Its language is music compared to the other English desecrations that pass for good translation. According to the BBC, you can now get a version of the Lego Bible, a Manga Bible, a New Testament for Porn 'stars', and an edition of the Bible in Cockney. Once I stumbled upon a Precious Moments Bible, I realized how unprecious the Bible had become.
Here, from an Arabic-speaking translator, a Muslim convert to Christianity on the use of Allah vs. al Ilaah (Allah, the god of Islam, vs. the Arabic generic term for the god):